The Road To Scratch Podcast: The Journey of Ben Utah Golf

In this episode of The Road To Scratch podcast, Matt and Shane have their VERY FIRST GUEST!!!! Ben Utah Golf joins the podcast and he talks about his journey to becoming a full time professional golfer, from 6 handicap to PLUS handicap in a very short period of time. Listen in and find out how he did this in only a couple of years, the trial and tribulations of sacrificing everything for his dream after leaving golf behind as a kid and then returning full steam to the game.

You can follow Ben on his socials:

Instagram: @benutahgolf

You Tube: youtube.com/@benutahgolf

Special thanks to our sponsor:

www.swing365colorado.com

Use code SCRATCH for 10% off memberships

Instagram: @swing365colorado

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

All right, Matt, we're back. Six, I believe. Number six. Yeah, number number six. Yep. Season one, Road to Scratch podcast. And this is really cool because we actually, for the first time on the podcast, have a guest which we'll introduce here in a second. Very excited. Hopefully, we don't butcher anything because it's the first time we've done this remotely. Um, I think everything's gonna be fine, but you know, it's you know, there's probably some bush league mistakes that'll happen along the way. But we're excited to have our guest on. We'll introduce him, like I said, in just a moment. But once again, special thanks to Swing 365 Colorado for having us here. It is a phenomenal facility. I was actually in here an hour early this evening to work on my golf game. And actually at the end of this, right before Matt got here, I turned on number seven at Pebble Beach and hit a bunch of shots down into number seven and actually hit a couple within six feet. So maybe something's transforming in my swing finally, right? But at least the wedges. Um, anyway, swing 365. It is a 24-7 365 golf simulator facility, private. It's just you in here. Bring a guest if you want, all kinds of memberships. Check them out on the website, Swing 365 Colorado. You can even have them have the owner come in and just give you a little tutorial and see if you even want to do something like this. It is great for a golf game. Uh it's great all year round. If it's too hot to play outside, you can come in here too. Wonderful air conditioning. Obviously, here in Colorado, usually in the wintertime, we don't get out much. So this is a phenomenal place to work on your golf game. So check them out. Scratch, code scratch for 10% off all memberships. And uh we're glad to be here. So without further ado, if you are on audio, I'm going to introduce our guest, Ben Utah Golf, is here with us, and we're gonna talk a little bit about his story. If you're watching on the YouTube channel, you can see his face. He's right there in front of us. Ben, thanks for joining us. What's up?

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Thanks for having me. I had uh no idea. I was the first guest ever. I feel I feel pretty honored right now.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Well, we are very we're we're a newbie. It's only episode six.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Uh yeah, we've worked our way into this. Um, but anyway, I'm super happy we could make this work and have you on. Yeah, thank you. Um, I've been following Ben for a while. Actually, like we were just talking before we got on. Matt introduced me to Ben on IG, sent me a couple of his reels and some other stuff. I started watching some some of his content and really enjoyed his content, and then found out kind of what his journey was in golf. And I was like, man, that's relatable to me. Although we're not the same age at all. It's still kind of like a cool little journey. And I started watching more of his stuff, kind of like I'm interested to see what happens and and where he's going with this. So I wanted to chat with Ben and have him on and let him talk about what he's doing, what he's about, how you got into golf. Maybe we can start with that and then kind of just tell us what you've been doing this this year. Um, and yeah, kind of give us a little backstory. How does it all start?

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Yeah. Uh, first of all, it's funny when you say uh if you were my age, you would have done it a little bit differently back then. And it's so weird to me, you know, to hear something like that because I'm 30 now and I'm like, I feel like I'm on the way out. I'm just like, oh well, over the hill, you know, it's time to retire. Um, but yeah, then I was actually thinking this today out on the course, and I'm like, you know, how good, how good will I be a year from now, two years from now? So I keep keep going at this rate, and I think about two years from now, I'm like, man, I'm I'll still be two years younger than Eric Cole when he made his PGA tour tour debut. So there you go. I'm like a little bit of positive energy now. He's he's an all-world mini tour player, but uh uh yeah, so I I to go back to your question about getting into golf and everything. I grew up playing. Um, I started playing uh when I was like 11-ish. Um like every other kid, I fought it for a while. Um, when I was younger, I wanted to play football and basketball and soccer and everything else, but golf. Started doing the first T um when I was about that age, about 12. Uh, went went to the range with my dad first, like a lot of a lot of people do, and used his old Tommy Armor 845, 8 iron. Uh man, I can still feel that thing. That is a hell of a club. It's such a good club. Yeah, he still has it, it's still in my room at home in Augusta. But yeah, I grew up playing and played in middle school, got more competitive in high school, too competitive, probably. And um I was nothing special in terms of like golfing ability. Uh, it was fine. I think my best high school tournament was like 75, 76 over two days. And I broke bar for the first time, I think my senior year in nine holes during practice. I shot 35, one under. Um, and I was just stoked. And I really it's probably it was probably my junior year, honestly, because I really grinded my junior year. Um and I got pretty good. I think my handicap was down to like a three, 3.2 or something like that. And that's kind of where it peaked. Senior year, I'm like, I'm ready to go to college. Uh, I'm I'm interested in other stuff now. And I I grinded so hard junior year that I kind of burnt myself out. So I thought about I actually thought about going and playing soccer uh senior year and leaving golf altogether. Wow. I was like, man, I know we're going to the state championship in golf, and I know we're we would not make the playoffs in soccer. I think I think I'd rather go to the championship. So we did we went to the state championship. I shot 90, we finished second to last, and you know, that's how the story ends. But then I went to college. Uh I played a semester for Clemson's club team, and uh, you know, for what that's worth, played one tournament, and that was really it. I shot 81, I think. And after that, I just stopped playing altogether. Play like once a year, maybe in like a charity scramble here or there. And then I went down to Florida to get my master's degree, and I played an intramural tournament there. We won the intramural scramble for UCF, and uh that's uh the only trophy I have from golf as of right now, and it's a t-shirt. Um so after that, yeah, like I said, I played a year or two, and I did not break bar on 18 for the first time until this journey, until I started this in Colorado.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Um, and I was out there with you guys in Fort Collins and kind of got back into golf. I was a marriage counselor for a little bit and then I went into teaching at Front Range Community College. Oh wow. Absolutely loved that. I love teaching psychology over there. I was an adjunct and that was really fun. But nice adjunct professorship does not pay the bills very well. No, it doesn't. And especially in the summer when you have no classes. So picked up a picked up a job at uh in Loveland Golf at Cattail Creek and um the old course, and that's kind of how I got back into golf. And and I saw this tweet uh at one point, and it was like, if you had two years to practice and had like no job, you just got to practice golf, could you go, bro? It's like that kind of thing, maybe, you know, like I was just dumb enough or just delusional enough to think maybe that's possible. And so I thought it would be a kind of a creative way to get back into golf and uh a journey that a lot of people would resonate with. And I just I had a previous YouTube channel where I did hiking and stuff, and uh so I I really liked storytelling, doing content and videos. Uh, and I thought if I was gonna get back into golf, I need to have some kind of creative outlet um so that I wouldn't just completely burn myself out again. Yeah. And that was 2023. Okay. Uh so started practicing again that summer and um I mean, for better or worse, picked up pretty much where I left off, which was mediocre. Um, had that nice Sergio flip under plane swing. And um yeah, like I said, I was I called myself a six handicap back then. Uh it's hard to say because I I've never truly kept a handicap after high school. Um I was shooting like if I kept my score by all the rules, I was I was probably shooting 82, 83 uh on a typical day. Might could have broken 80, like if I really had a good one.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Um and other than that, it was I was kind of an 80s guy.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

And so uh I think six is is you know probably fair enough to say I started at a six handicap uh and then kind of word from there. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Yeah, that's I mean, it's funny you said 2023, because that's kind of when I had my my come to Jesus meeting with golf, and it was one of those deals where it's like you're either gonna do this and do it, or you're just never gonna, you're gonna get rid of everything that you ever touched with golf and just be done and never even think about it anymore. I mean, the whole time Matt's been kind of like in golf and in and out of golf, and same thing for me though. I was like, you know, once a year, my dad for years we played in this children's hospital scramble charity event, and I that was a guaranteed one round that I'd play with my brother and my dad. Um, there were a lot of years we won that because my brother's really good and my dad's a hell of a putter. I mean, he's he's a good golfer, he just can't hit it very far anymore, but he would just roll everything in. Um and we played from like the fronties on those tournaments. So it was like that was the only time I but I never like got that hook, you know. After same thing after high school, I was I was I played a lot in our freshman year of college. Yep. Um, met up with some guys that played, and then we had friends that wanted to go out, but after that, I was like, I kind of like, yeah, during college, I kind of just was like, eh, I'm not really into it, and just kind of faded out. And I would like, I had these dips where I went in and out a few times after that, where I was like in it, and then I was serious. And at one point, my my wife, I was probably a little bit younger than you. My wife was like, You need a career in golf. You you like you watch it, you talk about it, you don't play enough, you complain about how you're not good, but you don't ever play. I don't know how you can be good if you don't play. Like, I want you to get a job in golf. And I'm like, I had a job after college, I worked as an assistant in the pro shop, and that was miserable. Like $8.50 an hour or something. It's the worst. It's the worst. Horrible hours, you don't make any money. Retail. Um, yeah, and the whole idea behind that was like, well, if I'm at the golf course, I'll work on my game, I'll get better. It was a hundred percent the opposite of that. Like, I never saw the driving range. Yeah, I think I worked at that golf course for a year and played it twice because it never happened.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Nobody plays less golf than people that work at a golf course.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Exactly, exactly. I mean, and my my buddy who's like a class A PJ professional now, he like his whole career has been that. He tells me how little golf he likes every time I hear him, like, that's this is such BS. There's no way you should not be playing less than me. That's stupid, but that's what it was, and so I just like well, screw this. If I can't work at a golf course and get better, what how am I gonna do this? But she like pushed for a while and basically told me, uh, you know, this is before kids like if you want to do it, I'll give you a year. And stupidly enough, I was like, I had a whole routine, and this is right when I was starting my own business. And I'm like, if I like dedicated two days a week to this, I bet I could get to a point where I'd be good enough and figure out something. Uh and a big deal came around and it sucked me in, and then I was like, nope, never mind. And that was basically the last time I actually was in it um for like a serious yeah time frame.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

And that would have been before kids. That was right before my son was born. So that was 18 years ago. That was like 18 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that was it. And then yeah, so my son gets into it. He's he played in high school, he um and dragged me back in. That was when I was like, this is a it's a do-or-die situation. I do it right, or I never do it at all. So I went and I bought a new set of clubs, got fit for them. I hadn't had a new set of clubs ever in my life. Um, the clubs I was playing with were probably 20 years old from handing out from somebody else. And yeah, I was like, kind of like, is this something I can do and still work? Then I got into that. I don't know if you've listened to the chasing scratch podcast, but these guys are about our age and they're like trying to do this while working jobs with kids, the whole thing. And can they do it? Can they get the scratch? Um, and I was like, man, I don't think this is possible. And then Matt sent me to you, and it was like the exact same thing because at the time I was like, I went from like a four and a half to like a six and a half in like a month because the four and a half wasn't real. I just had like a run of like seven great rounds in a row, right? When I got back into it, and I was just everything was timed right, and yeah, then all of a sudden, like the real handicap shows up, and then I was like, I don't think I do this. And then I he sent me to you, and I'm like, Well, maybe I can. I'll watch this guy. This guy, if this guy's legit enough, like it things are happening for him, and now he's a plus handicap, then yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

Well, I think what what drew me to to you really was the because you were always talking about YouTube golf and this whole like because you know, this whole movement online with golf and creating content with golf, and uh you know how you're in you were super interested in doing that, and I was like, I'm like, Well, yeah, here's somebody doing that, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Yeah, not good good or someone else's.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

It's yeah, not these massive accounts, but it's somebody that's in, you know, because I it's a and I think you know, the where we grew up, how you know the time we grew up, this was you this wasn't there.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

No, none of that was there.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

None of it was there, and so that it wasn't even an option, you know, right.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Like which is why I say, like, it's I wish I was your age. Like, I I I just feel like I was born 20 years too late or 20 years too early, because it's like, man, this would have kept me in the game if this had come around because it brought me back in. And yeah, I am I'm a I'm a definitely a crackhead with golf now for sure.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

So it's kind of funny that you well, first of all, I that means a lot to me to hear that like you watching me in some way kind of inspired you to be uh like back in golf for real. And if I could do it, you can do it because that's that's my goal, really. At the bottom, the bottom line is to prove it can be done. Um yeah. And so it's interesting to me that you had this moment 18 years ago where you kind of felt the river flowing back to golf, and then something came up and it and it pushed you back away. Because that was me. That was me in Orlando. Um, when I was at UCF getting my master's degree, I'm I'm sitting there halfway through uh the program and I'm like, I don't know about this. Like this, this is this really meant like what I'm meant to do. And um, because after I got out of golf, like I I've never found anything that I'm as obsessed with. You know, I've always been a sports guy, like I'm really into sports and I love psychology, love counseling, I'm good at those things and I enjoy doing them, but I was obsessed with golf. Like I would do it 24 hours a day if I could, and nothing ever did that for me. Uh and so when I was my UCF kind of qu questioning my career, I'm like, all right, well, maybe I should get back into golf. And I started going to the driving range a couple of times a week for like a month, and I'm like, yeah, I don't know. And uh I was dating this girl at the time, and she asked me such a profound question that was absolutely necessary in that moment. She said, Do you actually like golf or do you like being good at something? And it was like, great question. Yeah. Um, yeah, that's because I'm I'm in the middle of a master's program, I'm struggling, I'm not good at counseling, right? Like none of us are, and our practicum and stuff. And she was absolutely right. Like, I just wanted to be good at something, and golf was the thing I was closest to being good at. And so there's been a number of times where throughout my life, I can look back now and see, yes, I was obsessed with it. No, I did not have the right mindset at all. Like I was, it was never gonna work. It was never gonna work for me in high school. I don't care how talented I was, how many, what practice days I did or whatever like that. I didn't have the right mentality. And same thing in grad school. Like if I had gone back into golf at that moment, it would have never worked either because I had the wrong approach, I had the wrong reason for playing. And uh, I think there was just a lot of things that needed to happen in my life and a lot of perspective that needed to be added before I could get back into the game in in a way that was like truly sustainable.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Right, right. Yeah, that's I mean, it that's a great. I mean, I that's a great question. My wife knows I'm addicted to it. She's always known that. Like she's always just she's never really said much until I was like, I would get into it. And then she's like, you should try this. I mean, she's pushing hard right now for me to just get somewhere. And and some of the stuff I've tried to do is just like this little side hustle where I'm trying to play as many courses in Colorado as possible and film them. And then in return, if these courses can get me on, I will do free marketing for them. Basically, they comp me around. I go play, I fly my drone the whole nine yards, put something together for them, they have it for their website or whatever they want to use, and I just get to go play these courses. I've been the door has slammed so many times in my face. Um, it's just it's it's for me, it's kind of hard to understand why people would say no to that, but especially the ones I'm looking up where they have no content on their website, like there's nothing, and they're cool courses that no one knows about. Um, but I as I got hooked up here with the owner at Swing3625, I was telling this whole story, and he goes, dude, you're just asking the wrong people. I know plenty of courses and plenty of guys running these courses that would happily let you do that. Um, but we have to go at it the right way, and so he's actually like got in the door for me a couple times, yeah, and that's starting to pick up. And my wife is just like, Oh my god, this takes off. This is like the perfect thing for you. And I'm just like, I don't I don't know if I just want to do that. Like, it's about me playing golf, but it's like I'm addicted to golf. Yes, it's not me trying to be good at something because there's plenty of other things I got really good at, I didn't care about, and that's not like the ego thing talking. It's just like I never was the same as you. I could be on I could be playing golf 24 hours a day if I could stay awake. I I was the guy that would stay at the driving range for four hours just hitting balls because it was just fun to hit balls and like try different shots. Whereas, like my friend again, our friend that Joe, who's a class A professional, hated practice. He hits like five balls before he goes plays around. He would never like he doesn't he can't stand it. It's a whole different relationship. But for me, that's kind of me though.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah, I'm kind of the player. I want to go play, I want to go score. Like, that's what I love about golf, is I want to shoot a score, right? So I play like the only thing keeping me from playing constantly is is my body. Like, if uh if I could keep my body feeling fine all the time, I'll just go play again. Like it's just way too holes. Oh, don't tell me that. Don't tell me that. I mean, I'm already not looking forward to it. Take care of it now, you'll be fine. Yeah, I've I've made my peace. I'm like, I'm not here for a long time at this point. It's it's gonna be what it is.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Yeah, yeah. No, just I mean, I had old injuries from other sports, and I think that's what's caused some of these issues, and even working with um some swing coaches, like finding out what was really going on, why I couldn't be in a you know that position or why I can't rotate through the ball as well as I wanted to, had to do with really just body mechanics breaking down and how to get them stronger again. And yeah, PT is a huge thing, but like I tell Matt, like the knees are designed so poorly. If you don't take care of your knees, golf is really tough. Um, that and back. But if you take care of your body, man, yeah. I mean, I know plenty of real guys way older than us that are still playing phenomenal golf. I mean, you're still hitting it 280. So there you'll be fine. Take care of your body.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Yeah, I want to come back to the the body thing in a second because it has been so important on this this journey. But I also wanted to touch on something you said a second ago, and just how cool is it to have someone that supportive uh of of the journey, like your wife, and in my case, my wife as well, uh Kat, she has been just phenomenal. I mean, like on this video you see on my channel and stuff, like somebody's gonna shoot it. That's her. She's the one filming. I'm I'm playing. And so uh all this tournament stuff, like she goes to tournaments, she helps to pay for Airbnbs, she's keeping us afloat, like while I'm I'm kind of not making any money and doing this part-time. Um, and honestly has believed in me more than me most of the time. You know, when this whole thing started, she's like, How long do you like are you gonna give yourself? And I'm like, I don't know, three years, I think would be a good like if it's not working in three years, maybe we tap out. And she's like, You're thinking way too short term. She's like, You gotta you gotta think at least five years. And I was like, you know, five years, really. Um yeah, and so I was I would never have expected that that kind of sacrifice, and uh just to have that runway is really helpful. And on the other side, there's a lot of pressure, like there's a lot of stuff that I don't put up in my videos that people never see that's like every time I fail, or every time I don't make a check at this tournament, I'm like, oh my god, like she's on her own and I'm not doing anything to contribute, and like it just compounds. And so um, the mental side of the journey, I think, is way harder than I could have ever expected. I mean, like, even for somebody with a master's degree in counseling and a bachelor's in psychology, and like all the experience I have, it's like I mean, I was not even close to prepared for what it was going to take mentally to get to where you need to go for sure.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Yeah, I think that's what that's what's probably. The coolest thing about this game for me is the mental challenge because I was the same way in high school too. Like I was a mental, I wasn't a mental wreck. I just went about things the wrong way. I wouldn't course management, um, nerves before a tournament, like all these things that I would feel. And it's cool because I found out years like a few years ago, like what was really going on with me. And I've talked with Matt about it a lot, but um, I actually struggled with horrendous anxiety and never knew what it was. I just didn't understand. Like I'd have a temper, I would feel um, I'd have like these hunger, like these sugar crashes for no reason. I'd get these headaches. Um, there's just weird things would happen as I got older. Like it just I got really good at ignoring it. And I'd always have this like weird sick sensation before I went and played a round of golf. This is just a round of golf, like with friends, with family. It was just really weird. Like, this is uh, yeah, it was really bad. I never understood why, but it was always so frustrating to me too. Cause like, I don't know why I'm so worked up about just going to play. This is supposed to be fun. We're supposed to be out with you know, like, but it was just so it was so I think that was the part where it's like my my brain wouldn't allow me to say it's okay to fail, it's okay to hit a bad shot, it's okay to whatever, just just go out and do it. And it took me forever to get past that. And it's very recently where I've finally like don't feel that anymore.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

It's it's amazing how much pressure you just put on yourself and for the weirdest things, for the weirdest things, yeah. We make up so much stuff about what other people think about us right now when no one's actually paying attention, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Yeah, so that was that's what's drawn me back the most is like getting my head in a place where I can like be in control again is awesome. And this game, like I've allowed it to teach me that, and it and it's gotten to a point where like I feel good, like, oh, this is gonna translate to other things, which is cool. A golf is a game of life and it translates really well to things if you pay attention. But that's the part where it's like even if you're just playing, like we're playing my dad for money or something, and and it's just like we gotta hit this shot, you know, right here. And to step up and do it and you just flush that thing, and it's like that feeling comes over me. It's like it's it's another, it's almost like another drug. Like, wow, that's in my system now. It's not just a physical remembrance of really flushing a wedge, but my brain can go back to that and connect. And the more you do it, the more you perform, the better you feel, and the confidence goes everywhere, and that's what's helped me the most.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Well, playing with confidence is, I mean, it's a non-negotiable if you're gonna succeed in golf in terms of like I've learned that the hard way, and um, I'll I'll learn it again tomorrow, probably. You know, it's just one of those things where um I've I've read a lot of Bob Rotella. Um, I've recently gotten into uh I listened to a podcast with Dr. Izzy Justice the other day.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Um, and I'm probably gonna get his book here soon. And I, you know, I think it's funny when I was back in Colorado, um a friend of mine came over one day, and you know, I this is where I would, I was probably down, you know, one, two handicapped maybe scratch on a good day. Um, after that first year of practicing. And he came over to our house and I'm like showing him these books. And at the time I had just finished reading um every shot counts, and he's like, Is this what it takes to be as good as you? Like, do I have to read books? And I'm like, Yeah, dude. Like it and and I went so far away. And that's it's weird how iterative it is, you know. And and one thing you had talked to me about um previous to coming on this conversation is like the steps and the timeline uh of the journey. And so, you know, like I said, starting from a six handicap and then uh honestly kind of moved fairly quickly down towards scratch. Um, hard to say because I wasn't really keeping a handicap like officially. Um, but I started shooting uh around par uh at Mariana Butte and old course and stuff like that um before I moved out of Colorado. So that would have been within within about eight months or so.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

And um it's so non-prescriptive though. Like I sit here and say that and people are gonna hear that like that should be the expectation. And it's not like what I did is is I don't want to say it like this, but look, a course like the old course and Loveland is so straightforward. If you hit it in the fair way and you hit it on the green or short of the green, there's no trouble. Like you can just chip and putting your way to 69. Yeah, and it's it's just not that difficult. And so I think a lot of talk about fake handicaps and stuff. I think a lot of that early jump was just getting back in the golf and just getting a feel for it again and and kind of doing those things because when I started working on my swing and making changes, then it goes back through the roof, you know, and then I'm shooting 88s. And it's like that has been a very consistent theme that I've noticed. I get to a point where I shoot 70, 71, 72, and I make a change and I start shooting 85, 86, 82. And it's like I have to work my way back down. It's so prescriptive that I have certain goals that I kind of know when and where I'm gonna have to go through them. When I see myself shoot the 88, I'm like, all right, we got to start shooting 77s and I shoot 77, 77, 78. I'm like, okay, now we've got to start shooting 75s, 75, 76, 82, 75. And I'm like, all right, now we can start expecting a little bit closer to par. And so it's it's just adjusting the expectations along with where you're at. Um it's like, I think for you as well, I'm sure on your journey towards scratch, is probably something you've noticed too. Once you've kind of mastered something, you can get to a point where it's very playable.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Even if it's bad, like you can get the ball around the course. Yep. And that's what I was doing uh a year ago when I kind of hit my peak. I was a shot off of making a check in a Florida minor league tournament. And I actually threw 16 holes in the first day, I was four under. And I'm like, I'm like, whoa, I'm cruising. And I'm on the leaderboard next to like Chase Kevka. And I'm like, all right, this is kind of crazy. And then the last four holes or last three holes, I'm like, what am I doing? I don't belong to this leaderboard. And I go double par double to finish even. And I'm like, yeah, well, there you go. She won over the next day, miss a check by one. And I'm like, that I kind of peaked, like that swing kind of peaked.

unknown 28:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

And then I started working with Joe Plecker, who's my coach down here in Savannah. And oh my god. He when I first talked to him on the phone, he was like, Have you ever worked with a tour level coach before? And I was like, I mean, no, but I mean, you can it's only so much to know about the golf swing. Sure. Boy, was I wrong. Um working with that guy is it's transcendent. I mean, it's unreal how good a master of the craft like that can can break down the swing, can speak to me in like a feeling it is truly unbelievable. And the first tournament after I uh started working with him, I no-carded. I mean, I would have been fighting to break 90 had I not just quit. And so um it's like that's that's how it goes, you know? And that's it. Yeah, it's cyclical, and I'm back up to and I go 77, 75, and then I peek a little bit more, and I'm like, all right. And then Joe's like, all right, now we gotta take the next step. And I'm like, back up to 82. It's just it can be so defeating when you see yourself on the cusp and then you go backwards.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Oh, yeah, it's yeah, it's one step forward, three steps back. I mean, I've I've been doing that. It's funny because when I've I hadn't kept a handicapping year like you, and when I started like really playing, then my son was getting into golf, and you know, he was gonna join the team he never played before, and he was all paranoid. I'm like, just let's get out. I got him with a you know, I got him with a swing coach. He's an extremely natural player, like it's so frustrating to watch what he does with his golf swing from the beginning. It was just like, yeah, it makes me grit my teeth. But I I knew he could make the team, at least the JV team, if he just went out and tried out. There's like he was shooting scores, like he'd shoot a 101 and then shoot a 90, and then he'd shoot a 92 and then shoot an 85. And I'm like, this is his first year of golf.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Oh, that's pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Yeah, and then he would but but his the mental side, I mean, he was like 14, 15 at the time, it was just yeah, not even close. But but watching the way he kind of worked his way through it, and then me saying, Okay, I'm gonna play with him. So I went out with some practices and played with them a little bit, and I started like I was I got in a groove with a swing that was like this feels comfortable. I've changed one thing I know it has to change from when I was playing before, and I finally got to where my body would respond to that, and that's when I was like, all right, I better get a handicap. If I'm gonna start doing this, I gotta start somewhere so I know if I'm getting better or not. Like, I have to record my scores, and I did, and then we went out, and I had like my first my well, my first round, I think I shot like 89, and I was like, uh, whatever. And then I went 77, 78, 74, 79. Like it was just like you know, I just had a run, and I'm like, look at this. I'm gonna, it's gonna take I just like Matt, this is gonna be six months. I'm at zero. I'm like, I was a 4.3 at one point. I'm like, 4.3 has been like six months. This isn't no, I knew it. I knew this wasn't that hard. I'd like I could pick this back up, and then it was like as soon as I said that, yeah, all over the place. That's when I started getting the driver yips, and that's when I was like hitting balls all over the planet, and it was just like I couldn't couldn't get it. And like you know, very rapidly I went straight up into the mid-sixes, I was at over a seven at one point. I'm like, oh my god, and then I was like, I got to the point where I'm like, I don't think I can teach myself anymore because I was like you, I'm like, I know a lot about the golf swing, there's only so much you can know, otherwise, it's just noise and whatever. I'm gonna ignore most of that, get on YouTube, watch a few things, and start working on these things. And every time I had like a fix or you know, whatever, it lasts for like a week, as we all know, and then things would fall apart. And that's when I was finding like, all right, I need a coach. I can't. There's I can't go any further, even with the ups and downs. I can't go any further without a coach. The the the camera's not gonna help me anymore.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

So I try to do like almost no videos where I teach things or explain things. Um, and when people ask me, like in in real life, um for swing tips and and stuff, I do my best to kind of sidestep those questions.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Um, just two reasons. One, I'm again more of a player than anything. Um, and so I don't always know the best way to like communicate that. And two, it it just isn't good to have a hundred different inputs, and that's what most people have. They get on TikTok or Instagram or any YouTube or whatever, and there's there's a hundred different swing coaches teaching a hundred different swings, yeah, and none of them work with your body, and so it's like Joe talks about all the time having the right matchup. And uh, I think you can get yourself tied in a knot just immediately online when you try to go down the rabbit hole of what swing does what, and you know, this release pattern and that guy swings like this, and it's like you gotta pump the brakes, and you need direction. I mean, that's the biggest thing I've learned is direction, otherwise, you're just kind of treading water spinning in the circle. And that's what I did a little bit this first year. Um, I was working with my uncle as my swing coach, and he was a high-level golfer um, you know, back as a kid and in college, and he played on the golf channel Amtour for a little while and was reasonably successful on that. So kind of a good player. Um, but he was also in Florida and I was in Colorado, and we're doing the best we can. And then I had um, you actually might know this guy. His name is Jim Dargis. He used to be the pro at uh in Loveland. And um, he retired a few years ago, but he would help us out too, like the guys that worked there. And great guy, really helped me in those this early years, or early year, I should say. Um but here again, the the separation between where I was and and like where you need to be to compete at a professional level, it's is truly staggering. Um, and if I if I'd known that back then, it would have been a lot harder to start this journey. Uh, I think that like optimistic delusion was a big reason that I even was able to start because I was like, oh yeah, yeah, it's it's not that bad. I can go from this to pro in one year. And like technically, I did make a pro start and I shot 77 and I didn't finish last, but it I was far from a pro golfer. Um, and I still think there's a long way for me to go in terms of being a professional and and how you handle the round of golf and how um you eat, how you work out, how you do all those things. Uh, I mean, I just posted on my Instagram story yesterday that for the first time in my career, I posted two back-to-back underpart 18 holes. Like, wow. You know, we're talking about Scotty. Yeah, it's pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Um, but Scotty's doing, you know, he's shooting 67 every day. And it it's largely down to course management and having a routine and having these things that that make professionals professionals. And there is just so much that you have to learn in the doing. There's so much you have to learn on the way, and you're gonna get punched in the face a lot. And uh, I think that's been one of the harder lessons to learn is like I can sit here and tell you that after almost every single tournament I've ever played in on this three-year journey, I've thought about quitting the whole thing. Wow, like every time, except for those few where I like shot a couple under par or missed the check by one or whatever, every single time without fail, I'm driving home and I'm like, it's I can't do it. Like it's not gonna work. I'm over this, like it's miserable, I hate it. And then the next day I'm like, I gotta go get better. I just have to get better, and that's the addiction part of it coming back in. But um it is not without doubt that I've gotten this far. I'll say that.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Yeah, yeah, that's it's I mean, we talk about this all the time. It's like managing expectations is so important no matter what level you are in this game. Um, I mean, yeah, Matt Matt has a different relationship with golf, which is cool because he loves to play it, but he's not like there's not like an ass uh well, there's certainly not you're not obsessed with it like I am.

SPEAKER_03 37:21

There's not this like I will I don't have the addiction.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

You don't have you don't have the drive to like, or not the drive, but you don't have to like want to to try and like make something else out of it. You're just like, I just want to play golf the rest of my life. Yeah, we'll go out and play. But he'll show up at the golf course after not touching a club for two weeks, rushing back from work, and like you know, just barely makes the tea time, tease off, hits one, you know, wherever, and then he's like, God damn it, Matt. I'm like, you have to manage your expectations. Like, you this is your first swing is with a driver in two weeks on on a first hole that's tight, yeah, and you're mad, like just dude, drop a ball and hit another one. It's it's um so it's for me, like me telling him that is funny because then I come back and I'm like, Well, I need to look in the mirror then, yeah, because I'm not managing my expectations well. And when you're talking about, you know, like Scotty Sheffer going out and having uh like he has a month where he doesn't shoot over 70. And this guy is a full-time athlete. He's he's got he's got coaches all over the place, yeah, and all he does is golf, which I know can be tough, but uh that's managing expectations. You're you're not at that point. So it's you know, it's it's like I want to be here, how do I get there? And can you be there? Yes, but at the same time, uh who knows how this is gonna go as far as like where you're gonna end up next year. And that's where I was like kind of curious as far as your expectations now that you're here at this point in the journey, like what's your uh like on a scale of one to ten, you know, do you think you can get to like do you think you what's your I guess what's your next goal? Like, do you think you can get this to become full time for you? Are you looking for a corn fairy event? Like, what are you trying to do now?

SPEAKER_01 39:06

Yeah, um I really like that point about expectations. Uh you can get real in the weeds real quick, and that's another thing Kat has been really helpful on for me. On is like I would go into these tournaments and be like, I can shoot 68 here. And the Wyoming Open is a great example. Um, you've you might have played that course up in Cheyenne, the airport course. Um, just I mean, it's so easy. And I look at that course and I'm like, I feel like Bryson and Augusta. I'm like, oh, this is the par 65. And then I go out there and shoot 73, 78, and I'm like, what just happened?

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

And and Cab has looked at me one day and she's like, How many tournaments have you broken 75 in? And I'm like, um, I mean, not that many. And she's like, so let's make the expectation 75 then.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

And I'm like, but I know I can do better. Like, and she's like, but you're not, so let's reset that expectation. That was really helpful. She's good, dude. Yeah, she's also a mental health therapist, so she she knows her stuff. Um, and so I think for me to answer the question, one thing I want to see in like the immediate goals section is I just gotta see more score starting with the six. Um, yeah, to make a check on pretty much any tour in the world, you gotta break 70. Um, I did a lot of research before I started this uh that I I've never talked about, and I don't think anybody will ever like get to know her seats because it's not important, but what I found almost unequivocally is 69 would make a cut and make a check anywhere. If you shot 69 every round, you'd make every cut and you make a check on on every tour. And I'm like, that's not crazy. You don't have to shoot 62. Like people look at the pros and they're like, oh, you got to shoot 63, 63. Right. It's like the guys that are winning, yeah, sometimes they they shoot 20 under or whatever, right? But if you scroll down and look at the cut, I mean, guys will make the cut and then finish over par. Yeah, like I don't know how many Corn Fairy G Pro events, uh, PJ Tour Americas. Like, if you look at the last place finisher, they'll go and make the cut at four under and they'll finish the tournament eight over. And it's like, what happened on the weekend? Yeah, and so that's every week. I mean, pick any tournament. And so that is kind of always been my goal. This 69. Like I break 70, I'll get a very real chance. And I go into the tournaments with that expectation, having only broken 74 times in my life. And so what I've set down and decided after my last tournament was I need to see more 60s in practice before I can have that expectation in the tournament. Like, otherwise, I need to just let myself off the hook in a tournament, be like, just go learn something today. Right. Because I'm sitting here, like, I've broken uh 60 or sorry, broken 70 four times, and two of them are within the last month. Wow. And I'm like, you know, like take a breath, dude. And and the other thing is like going back to the Wyoming Open, first round I ever played there, I shot 69. And I'm like, that's the first time I broke 70, and uh it's a one under on that course, and from that point on, I was doomed on that course because I'm like, oh, first time I saw it, I broke 70. Now I gotta do it every time. Every time. And so your expectation was so yes, so high immediately. Yeah, but so immediately the expect or the goal would be break 70 more often. I just want to see that handicap go down. I want to see uh the scores go down. And from there for the rest of this year, uh, I set this goal at the beginning of the year, but I want to compete in two events, and by compete, I mean like challenge for a check, um, like be in the mix, have a chance going into 18, um, not just show up and play. Um, and so I feel that's pretty realistic. Yeah. Um, going into the end of this year. And then next year, I would like to see consistent checks um from tournaments. And I think for the foreseeable future, like 2027, G Pro, the G Pro Tour is like the highest level mini tour, at least in the southeast. Um, and they play for more money. It's not like serious money, but the purse will be, you know, 115,000 or whatever. So considerably higher than the three thousand dollar purse that a lot of these mini tours play for.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

Um, and so if I could make a start or two on there, make some cuts, like find sus some sustainability. Um that's like the next big goal. Okay. The overarching goal that I want to see this um process kind of accumulate in. I mean, obviously, like playing full time on the PGA tour would be amazing. Um, but I don't in any way have that as the expectation. Uh, because as I started out with, this is kind of an experiment. Like it's a question of like, can I do this? Is it possible? Um and like we've said, there's a lot of things going against that. So I think that would be a nice byproduct. But if I could Monday into one PGA tour event, get a sponsor's exemption, like I just want to be in the show one time. You know, I think that'd be really, really cool.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

Uh if nothing else. So that would be the that'd be the big goal.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

That's okay. I like that. I mean, I I'd have I honestly, I mean, I've like I said, I've been watching you a while, but your swing is solid. Um, I think you've got a very good, as you've talked about, very good support team at home. That's amazing. Like you have to have that to try anything of this caliber at all. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I think I think there's just got to be a couple, a couple more things you've been talking about that have to happen more consistently, and that's all golf is is just becoming more consistent. And that's because we have to work on certain things that are consistent that stay there. Um, I mean, I have no doubt you can do it. And that's awesome. Yeah, I like how you've kind of like compartmentalized some of that stuff. I think that makes more sense because if you're like looking down the road and that's all you can see, there's no real direction of how to get there at all. And you've you've kind of nailed that as far as like this is what I want to do first, really get to this point, and then once we see those scores, then I can start actually competing in some of these mini tour things. Um, I think it's all about building confidence and being comfortable in the moment in golf. Like when you're talking about playing up and leveling and that course is super easy, but you were shooting really well. I think there's a part of that was like helping you be comfortable shooting lower scores. Like you just have to be in the moment of like, I you you know, we have we've had plenty of times where everyone that's played golf has like gone out and played nine holes and had the career nine holes of their life. What happens on the back nine? Your brain's like, we're not supposed to be here, so we're gonna make sure we're gonna make this right and get back to where comfort zone is, which means you're gonna blow up on the back. But the moment you can be in that comfortable, like, okay, I just shot one under on the front. How many times can you do that and even just like stay even keel on the back nine? The more, the more ways you can kind of derive that feeling, the better. Like, that's why I do this whole par three thing is I'm trying to break par into par three, but every time I go out there, I'm just like, miss it by one, miss it by two, miss it by one.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

And that's like the hardest course to do it on, though, too.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

Yeah, I'm well, I've gotten really good with my wedges. I mean, I'm but it's a matter of it's I've watched, it's the mental, it's the mental, like I get to like the last couple holes, and it's like, all right, this is what I usually do on this hole. That's how we play this differently. I've tried it all different ways. Yeah, I know I can do it because it's really close, but it's getting the the idea was getting me comfortable being in that, like being in that realm of I'm right around even par, I'm under par, be comfortable in that moment, and then I can do it more.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

Yeah, yeah, and that's the big thing for me too, is like I I can't tell you how many times on this journey something has come up in the middle of a round, a tournament, you know, whatever that I didn't know I didn't know until that moment. And you know, like I said, I'm sitting there next to Chase Kepko on the leaderboard, and I'm like, oh no, this is not like what am I doing here? And then, dude, like four or five weeks ago when I did my US Open qualifier, I'm on the first T. Like, what am I doing here? This is I'm just some guy from YouTube that just like I should not be doing this. And so having like that self-belief is just a foreign concept to me. I've never been someone who's had a lot of self-belief. Um, for like I would consider myself to be pretty talented in terms of like physical golf side of things, and mentally, I am just a train wreck, and so like the self-belief has never been there. And um, I would consider myself, I would call myself a curable pessimist. Like, I've always been super pessimistic, but there's probably a chance I'm saveable, and I think that's what needs to happen to to progress, because it standing on the first key and not having that confidence, not feeling like you belong, like I didn't grow up with like any kind of memes or anything like that. And so going to country clubs, being in private clubs, like it's so foreign to me.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Um, and I've been going to the landings for a year now to go see Joe. Um, and every time I go to that gate to check in, I'm like, oh no, this is they're gonna kick me out, like they're gonna, they're gonna find me out. I'm um yeah, a fraud and I don't belong here. And so I I that's the part of the journey people don't see. I mean, I try to I try to mention that in the videos and stuff, but it's such an internal experience that just isn't conveyed very well. And um I think if anything, my content falls short on conveying how difficult it is. Uh, I think you know, you can see my scores and you can see the ups and downs that way. You miss out on a lot of mental strain, like a lot of strife, a lot of just real internal battle. Um, that I think is really crucial to this process. And if I had to tell myself something when like me now talking to me starting this journey, I would just be like, buckle up, dude. It's yeah, it is gonna be way harder and it's gonna take way longer than you could ever imagine. And you're gonna have some amazing days, and you're gonna have 10 terrible ones in a row right after that. Yep. And like the goal is to keep believing in the face of those 10 terrible ones because that's the hard part for me, is like I just go, I go shoot a 68, and then I go shoot a like what was the next round? 84 in a tournament, and I'm like, what is that? Who's the real me? Am I am I the guy that shoot 68 or am I just the 84 guy? And so um, I think staying away from like defining myself like that as well has been difficult because as soon as you shoot the 84, my mind is like, I knew it, you're terrible, I knew it. And it just like reaches out to be like that pessimist again. And so um I've tried to really learn how to manage my mind, and that is such an ongoing process. Uh so going back to when you were talking about like the things that need to happen more consistently, um, there's a lot of brilliant moments. I mean, there's sometimes I hit shots that are just unreal, and and then it's like 82, 86, out of nowhere. And uh that's the thing the pros do really well is like their bad days of 72, 73, and their good days, you know, obviously 64. But uh, I just think that kind of golf takes a lot more professionalism and a lot of lessons that I am learning and have yet to learn. Um and all those lessons have to be learned the hard way, uh, for better or worse. Like when you're speed running this thing like I am, it is a lot of learning in a short amount of time. And uh I think that's been the most difficult thing is talking about expectations. One thing I kind of reset recently with the needing to see more practice scores in the 60s, I was thinking about it. I'm like, yeah, these other guys had a whole childhood and adolescence of what I'm going through right now. Like when they were, you know, Scotty was 15 to 22 or whatever, he was experiencing this. Like he was shooting in the 60s for the first time, then the second time, then the third time, then he was gonna shoot in 80, you know, and like I'm doing that all now, and I'm expecting myself to be him at the same time. Yeah, and I'm like, I gotta start treating myself like like a kid. Yeah, and like this is this is my like grinded out years where I've got to learn how to do that. And you know, I have a couple legs up on the younger version of me because I have a better mindset, better coaches, better people around me, and that helps expedite the process, but you can't dodge it, like you still got to go through it. Yeah, and I think the unavoidable nature of it is something I'm trying to accept a little bit more this year than in years past, and that's that's been a bumpy road.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

Yeah, I think I mean that's I you've got it. I think as we're coming up in the hour, I just realized what time it was, but I think you've got the perspective dialed, man. Um I think that is like your next kind of piece, but from everything I'm seeing and the way you're the way you're talking about what you're trying to do and compartmentalize things and recognizing those those breakdowns, a hundred percent you've got it. It's just you're right, it's the next step. Is I mean, the mental part is the most addictive part for me. It's also the hardest. And that's the one that's gonna be the biggest challenge. But you've got a good team there for sure. I hear it. Um your wife is phenomenal, it sounds like so. That's yeah, that's like the biggest piece for sure, is having that supporting cast, but recognizing that you're you're where you need to be and where you are now, uh and understanding like, yeah, you're maybe starting later than a lot of people did, you're still starting in that same spot. Like, I mean, I remember like Stanley Seinfeld, like that whole thing with Kramer when he was doing he was doing karate who helped little kids, and he was yelling at Jerry because they're all the same skill level, even though he was an adult and they're all little kids. Well, he's learning at the same pace they are, so it's exactly how you have to look at it. I think you've nailed that completely.

SPEAKER_03 54:02

So just go play some 15-year-olds, you know. Then you feel great about yourself.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

No, yeah, it's kind of funny. We had the um like junior amateur qualifier at our course the other day, and I went and played later that afternoon. I was like, let me let me peek over at this score, the score sheet and see if I would have qualified with a junior am. Yeah, yeah. Oh, those kids are phenomenal. They're phenomenal. No, they're the other good players.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

Well, listen, man, I really appreciate you coming on. This was really cool. Um, yeah, I'm so glad we got it worked out. I definitely want to have you back because there's like a hundred more questions I want to ask you, but um yeah, we'll uh we'll figure that time out for sure because I want to get you back on for a couple other stuff, and I want to kind of keep up on your progress and where you're at. We will link all of Ben's socials in the description in the show notes. Um, Ben Utah Golf, check it out. If you're on if you're on audio, go link that up. Special thanks to Three Swing365 Colorado.

SPEAKER_03 54:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 54:58

Code Scratch for 10% off. Um, we appreciate everything you do for us here. Ben, it was a pleasure. Yeah, great talking with you. I will be in touch off camera, and I wish you the best of luck, and we'll see you soon, man.

SPEAKER_01 55:11

Yeah, thank you very much. Uh, like I said, it was an honor to be the first guest, and I really appreciate you guys' time. It was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 55:17

Yeah, cool. All right, we'll be in touch, man. I'll talk to you soon. Sounds good. See you very thanks for listening to this episode of our podcast. If you haven't yet, we'd greatly appreciate uh share, like, and subscribe. You can also catch this podcast on our YouTube channel, The Road Scratch. Special thanks once again to our sponsor, Twin355 Colorado. All of their information at Twin365 Colorado.com.