How Genetic Genealogy Could Finally Solve A 1975 Small-Town Murder

Transcript

Guests, Case Setup, Prior Myths

SPEAKER_04 0:00

All right. Okay, so we are back with part two now. We have with us today uh Catherine Kleimber. Catherine wrote the book uh Better the Devil You Know, Book One and Two. And then also we have with us uh former Sheriff Jerry Nutt from Martin County. Jerry, it's good it's good having Jerry here with us. He was at the autopsy of uh Joanne Bontchus, is that correct? Okay. And, you know, like I said, I didn't live here in those days. I was in uh 75, I was in California in the Air Force. And uh so I moved here, and October I get an email from somebody wanting to know if we were interested in the story. And I'm I went to Liz and I said, What is this about? And Liz came and told me the whole story because she lived here 50 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

I didn't tell them the whole story. I said I wanted to know more because I was tired of the frustrating uh gaps and and blames and just the frustration of the whole situation. And reading Catherine's book, I mean, she's but done a lot of research. She's uh ton. Yeah, and she she claims to have a lot of volunteers, so she's not taking all the credit herself. She definitely shares shares her interests.

SPEAKER_04 1:08

And we've talked already to two others.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Yes, we have.

SPEAKER_04 1:10

And we've gotten so we've gotten a a third and fourth person view now of what's going on here. I think we're starting to get some clarity, but we have a couple of questions. And Liz brought up when we we we had one episode, we paused it, we went 35 minutes and we paused it. So you've heard that one now. You're on season two, episode 20, and uh, and so you're listening to this one now. And uh so we're gonna come right back with Liz just asked the question a minute ago of who has been cleared. And and you guys were making a a list, right? Right, checking it twice.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Right, checking it twice because that's always been a frustration for me coming up is is uh you you we were afraid of the police because one person would say it had been a former police officer in town. And uh you've we've already said that Dormer and Darmer, and it's it I'm gonna use the name because it's it's come up several times, and and it's been sad for this gentleman because he did take the time to serve the community, and because he was here, he was the first one that people pointed fingers to. But you're sharing to me that that Mr. Darmer has been uh with a variety of different ways he's had uh the lie detectors, polygraphs. Now, we did not understand in the past that there was a plenty of DNA evidence left with Joanne's body that there is a way to track back. Is that what you're sharing with us?

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Yes. Not a lot, but well, there is DNA and it's different kinds of DNA, and there has been um some uh it's hard to understand a lot of the process because it's very involved. The the book that I had to read to understand it was this, you know, four inches thick.

SPEAKER_05 2:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

And and um each time they do a new process, and they're using both private labs and and the BCA labs, so they do have dedicated professionals that have been working on this since 2016.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

And I guess to me, I w without it being a sexual assault, so there was no there was no sperm left anywhere to test. So there was? No, there was not sexual assault, so there would not have been anything like that left behind. So the only thing that would have been would have been touch DNA. So just finding that DNA.

DNA Evidence And Its Limits

SPEAKER_00 3:34

There's different ways to get DNA besides just touch DNA or sperm. And so that is is I would say anybody that is interested in more of the involved DNA stuff, at the meet and greets that we have, we share um evidence and there are um some ways to explain it without um.

SPEAKER_04 4:03

Okay, so we seem to be dancing around. What what were the DNAs that were left behind in this case?

SPEAKER_00 4:12

There are some things that we don't want to share on the air.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

So was but was it on her clothes? But you so even if you would have DNA left on her clothes, I mean I could walk up behind Mike right now and tap him on his shoulder, and you're gonna get some DNA up r uh on the back of his shirt. So and that tells you nothing about my evening or or my contact.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

How much DNA would be on the inside of your waistband?

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Okay, so that's that's where we're finding. Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

So that information is on where the DNA actually is.

SPEAKER_04 4:51

Okay, so so we have DNA. Let's go approach this a different way. So we have DNA on the inside of the waistband.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Uh at one point, and there is another DNA that is on the inside of the pant leg. So if you're pulling off somebody's DNA, DNA there too.

SPEAKER_04 5:13

What is it? In both sides.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

It's a mi each one is a mixture, and one is a mixture of three, and one is a mixture of two.

SPEAKER_04 5:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

So this is one thing that that Whitehead had had said is that it was there was more people involved. So then do you think there was more in the last episode, the most recent episode, we were talking about a a single car parked alongside of Joanne's car at the side of the road. And there were two guys and a woman, is what Tracy said, isn't it? Yeah, on on the wheel stands but you just said that there was three.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Three on one on another or two on the other.

SPEAKER_05 5:54

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

But the information about there being men and women and all of that is not something that that is correct.

SPEAKER_04 6:09

Okay. Go ahead, Liz. I'm gonna go take the.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

Yep, absolutely. Um we're gonna so so you said that they that we have not been able to genetically denif identify the um I'm saying I don't know if they have or they haven't, that that information would not be available. Oh, okay, okay. But we've still got multiple people with fingerprints on the waistband.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

It's not just one, it's not it w leaving DNA of other kinds on waistband and on the bottom of the leg.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Okay. Yep. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So but oh so we've got enough DNA to test. So we've tested, we've we've gone over um, we've gone over lie detectors with Dharmer. Now, in the last episodes and in your book, you bring up two former Minnesota sheriffs, uh Johnson and Nelson.

SPEAKER_03 7:07

Uh Highway Patrol.

Mixtures, Multiple Contributors, And Rumors

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Highway Patrol. Thank you. I I'm sorry, so many officers, so many departments. It is does get confusing. I just give respect to all that take the time to serve. But there were two bad actors, Johnson and Nelson. Both had been arrested for previous crimes and uh pretty serious crimes. Yeah. Johnson had been arrested for another murder, and which horrifies Nelson. Nelson, excuse me, was arrested for another murder. Right. And it just horrifies me that there were several. Um, but he was also cleared. They were both cleared uh with their um DNA. Is that correct? Or was it just because of timing and and sodium pentathol? Is that what you had used earlier?

SPEAKER_03 7:54

No. Rod Rod was cleared because he was with me that night. Oh, okay. We were at the campground. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

We were having a party. Oh wow, you'll step up for somebody like that.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

That's Yeah, we in those days we couldn't go into the into the bars as much as we'd like to. So we all got together and had our party.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

And his DNA was tested after his death as well.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Okay. Okay. Now these were the two the two sheriffs.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

They they were not sheriffs.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Now, excuse me, excuse me, Minnesota Highway Patrol. And and then there was another gentleman that you talked about in your book that um that he had been connected with a cafe, and that was James Johnson.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

Okay, so he had been a bad character and had been connected with Joanne as a youth, and he'd also been convicted of several murders.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Now you had mentioned a sibling in and she testified for him. Testified not against him. She didn't testify against him, she testified for him and gave him an alibi. Right. And and he almost walked entirely.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Um, he had a a a brother who has not been been looked at. So that yeah, so there is nothing um so far that would make him a person of interest at all, except that this was his brother.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

So now there have been other local people that have been mentioned, um neighboring towns, uh farmers, businessmen, and uh you and uh one of the w one of the Facebook pages mentions another young man. Uh but we've you said that the these most of these local people that have come up in the past have all been cleared.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

All of them.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

All of them have been cleared. And I think that was the point that I really wanted to get to that the newspaper articles, that these little short blurbs have not gotten to is these folks that have been accused locally have all been cleared.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

And Martin County put out a statement saying that everybody that has been tested has been cleared. So everybody that that they have tested. So if you know somebody who says, hey, I went in and gave DNA for this, um, they have all been cleared.

SPEAKER_04 10:37

Okay, let me ask you a question. I noticed our friends over at the uh Truman Tribune, they put in an article from the Martin County Sheriff's Office about two weeks ago? Uh November 5th. So about three weeks ago now, uh that the the that the sheriff there still, it's an active case, even though it's cold. And they're looking for help. Is there anybody on the list now that that we know of? Not you don't have to name names, but do they have any suspects?

SPEAKER_00 11:04

I don't I don't speak for the Sheriff's Department. Yeah, for the Sheriff's Department. Our relationship with them. Jerry has a different relationship with them because he's he's one of the former sheriff. I with me, information flows only one way. And I cannot stress this enough. The information that we gather at our meet and greets when people come in, they are, you know, you're more than welcome to to to uh call the sheriff's department yourself, but if you don't want to do that, we will take information that we get, we will very share it with them and we bring it to them, and we have found things that have have been beneficial. Good.

Clearing Local Names And Official Updates

SPEAKER_04 11:51

Let me let me ask you something else. You had mentioned when we took our break a while ago, uh you mentioned that you guys have a meeting monthly. Uh uh? Pretty much. Okay, okay. And it's open to the public.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 12:04

And so you would like to. So is that the Sherburne Legion?

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 12:08

Uh on the 27th. 26th. I'm sorry, day before Thanksgiving. The next meeting is.

SPEAKER_05 12:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 12:14

And and then probably close to the month after that, maybe maybe more. 6 p.m. 6 p.m. Okay, I was gonna ask you what time. Now if somebody's a has some interest, maybe they know something.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Yeah or they or they might not even know they know something until they get there and and and say, wait a minute, I remember and then say, oh, wait a minute. That and it might be something that they think is trivial or not important.

SPEAKER_04 12:40

And it might be that missing piece to the public.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Exactly. And I would also say there are people that know what happened right now. And this case could be solved in a heartbeat if they decided to talk.

SPEAKER_04 12:53

Okay. So what's the what's the validity then of I guess we we were told that there was a couple of deathbed confessions, right, Liz? Well, that was one thing that No. No, no, Jerry says no, so I take what Jerry says.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

Exactly. Exactly. One of those people was on the list that DNA tested that's so so that but before we went to break or ask break, uh Catherine was saying that there was a similar case and who was that and where was that?

SPEAKER_00 13:25

There there is a case that has many connections and similarities with Joanne's case. And this was another young woman who lived in Butterfield first, which is a very small town, and that's where Joanne lived. Her name was Janice Barnd. She also worked in St. James. Joanne worked in St. James. They were two years apart in school. Joanne was 5'9 and 130 pounds. Janice was 5'7 and 120 pounds. They both wore glasses, they both had similar features. Okay. They both were seen late at night and then not seen again until they were dead. In Janice Barrett's case, um, she was in St. James, and a man that she knew and a man that she didn't know stopped at her apartment and asked if she wanted to go up north. And they had just come from a concert. So it was after two o'clock in the morning as well. And she went with them because she knew the one guy. There was no cabin up north. They drove her up there. She was sexually assaulted, and she was murdered and left in a I'm not, I don't remember which which county it was right offhand. Um, and her body was found um some some weeks later. Um, and she so she was a missing woman that was 25 at at the time, and she died in 1980. Joanne was 21 in 1975. So you can see the the correlation.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

Again, the correlation to me is just how many murderers were in a five-square mile period. Very you know, it this is horrifying to me.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Horrifying to me. Peggy brose, their family is I and I they asked of her brother asked me to to look into her case. That is the the young girl that Joanne testified for the defense in the yeah. Yeah, in in the murder for that girl. It's still technically an open case that has not been solved.

SPEAKER_04 16:03

And um Jerry, is this common for a county to have this many murders and cases like this? Or is this something out of the ordinary? Not lately. Not lately.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

In 1975. And the the the years before that, I found 14.

Meetups, Community Tips, And Leads

SPEAKER_03 16:23

Yeah, I I investigated uh Crowley murder. She was uh lived out by a Fox Lake golf course. And uh she was kidnapped sometime before Christmas and uh she was found strangled out in uh I forget the name of the town in South Dakota. He was arrested out in uh I want to say by Portland, Oregon. With the FBI agent, uh BCA agent. We interviewed him and he he admitted to it. And he as strange as it may seem, he he admitted to killing her in South Dakota or they had the death penalty. And he could have admitted to Minnesota where he'd only got 17 years. But he decided South Dakota was where he murdered her.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

You know, when we when when they were talking about extraditing the gentleman from Texas, they kept saying that it was because he was gonna get better time in the world. Right, right. Thank you, thank you. Um so so that Crowley murder, when was it what what year was that, sir? That same time frame?

SPEAKER_03 18:04

Yeah, within a few years. I I don't remember.

SPEAKER_04 18:07

So, okay, so we've done we've done this. Is the fourth episode on this on this same topic. Of Joanne. Yeah, of Joanne. How is this going to be solved?

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Genetic DNA is is what is gonna solve this. And they're already in the process.

SPEAKER_04 18:24

So they have the DNA. Yes. Now they have to find a match.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

No, no, that's regular DNA. Genetic DNA, it it uses an entirely different process. And an entire and what they do is they take the DNA that they have and they work backwards from it.

SPEAKER_05 18:40

They work backwards.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

They don't need other DNA to test. They work their genome out, and then they go through and they have they need a professional genealogist. And you might have seen this on there's a television show that kind of does some of the genealogy using.

SPEAKER_04 18:59

I've seen them build build whole facial models and things.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Exactly. And so with that, they can see and it's it's it um how families cross and what the the um relationships are, and then they have to find somebody that matches that.

SPEAKER_04 19:19

So are they working on it now?

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Yeah, they have been for for a while. And and we have a lot of things are not going to be public till they are.

SPEAKER_04 19:31

Yeah, I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

And that's and I don't have inside information. People keep saying Kathy's got inside information, and I do not want to have to put that out making it sound like I have some type of in. Jerry might, I don't.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

But again, we still have no motive. Do we have a do we have a theory of a motive?

SPEAKER_00 19:52

With uh when I because I write mysteries, one of the things I do is I look at the evidence, just the bare evidence, get rid of the he say, she say, and anything that you can't verify yourself. Okay, and write a story based off just those facts and see where it takes you.

SPEAKER_04 20:14

Okay, I'm gonna go at you in a different way now. So you wrote this story.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 20:18

This is this is your your mystery.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:23

How would you solve this crime?

SPEAKER_00 20:25

I think, and this is just a uh theory. I'm just gonna throw it out there.

SPEAKER_04 20:30

Yeah, I want to hear it.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Okay. I think that Joanne wasn't taken off the road. I think that she was where she wanted to be because if she had her white pants on and had been drinking for 11 hours, yeah. Somebody took her to the bathroom, somebody fed her food, she was still had a small amount of alcohol in her system in the morning. So she was with somebody that her clothes were clean, her her I and I by clean I don't mean washed. I mean that that she she wasn't um right being chased down down a uh a road.

SPEAKER_05 21:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Right. She wasn't running on a stubble field, she was barefooted and her feet did not have scratches or cut-up on them. You've all run on a stubble field. You know what I've been watching. Okay. She was inside because there's no bug bites.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

No bug bites. Go out in the fall and see what happens, right?

Parallels To Other Cases

SPEAKER_00 21:34

So that means she's inside, she has access to facilities, and someone's given her food and drink. Does that sound like a kidnapping? It doesn't sound like a kidnapping to me. I think somebody was there outside of the bar, and this is I I have a list of people that I would love to talk to, and there were people outside of the bar that night that claimed they saw Joanne talking to two men, and that those men may have made arrangements to did anybody claim to know who these people were?

SPEAKER_02 22:12

These men were yes. But they've never been tested.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

No, they they the the people that I want to talk to changed their story and said, No, we don't we made that up. And so it's it's it's not the police that are covering up, it's the community. There are people in this community that know things, and for whatever reason, and I don't think it's because they're part of Joanne's death. I think it's because one, they either don't think it's important, or it's they don't want to to to say why they were out at three o'clock, you know.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Yeah. But again, I mean, we're we're talking, so Joanne would be almost 70 now. 71. And so these people that would be hanging out the bar out of the bar when she was 20, they're same at least, if not higher, and they're they're under.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

These people could not come into the bar because they were 17.

SPEAKER_04 23:22

Oh okay, so they be 65, 66 now.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

But we don't think that she went home with some 16-year-old.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

No, no, we think we these girls saw her talking to somebody, and they know who sh who she talked to last. And that's a big piece of the puzzle that's missing. Of course it is.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

They they were across the street and at the Pioneer, I think that's what it was called.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Yeah, Pioneer Hotel.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

That's a whole nother see everybody that acts like this and says, we don't know that place. It I I had the hardest time. It's the building, was the building directly across from the Legion?

SPEAKER_04 24:04

In Trimont.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

In Trimont, one of the oldest buildings in town.

SPEAKER_04 24:08

It's gone now, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Big to have been next to the bank.

SPEAKER_04 24:12

It would be next to the bank, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

Right street to the north, across uh across the road.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

Across it's a vacant lot right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

It was uh it was a hotel at the time. Hotel and a restaurant.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

And uh and uh had a lounge area, had a swimming pool in the back above ground. Yes, and no way everybody has amnesia and gets the same look on their face when I mention it.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

I had to I went to I'm gonna go go call my dad as soon as we hang out.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Go to ask him about the red room there.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

The red room? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

Maybe daddy won't tell you about that. There was there was a stabbing uh uh in front of that that night. Uh that same night? No, no, no. No, not the same night, but another night. Okay. Uh I'm trying to think of who all was there was two guys involved.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Was it Holtz? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:12

Yeah. One one was was Olsen. And I forget who the other was.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

So many Olsons. Yeah. Olson, right, right? Yeah. Yeah. We love them all. And and and cry and and when you talk about the extended families and the genetics.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

We were stopping there where my partner and I were gonna go in and have coffee. Yeah, we we just got out of a squad car, and the one stabbed the other one in the chest.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

Uh-huh. Man, we some tragic folks. Yeah. Yeah, we some i and and this, you know, when the sad backstory, when I left Minneapolis in 2000 to move my family home, I thought, you know, we're leaving the we're we're leaving the crack neighborhood in Minneapolis. And then I moved home. And well, I came home and there was methamphetamine was so bad in 2000 in Martin County.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

And another one, another one I investigated was right straight east at the curve out there, uh, where a guy shot his wife in the head with a I'm trying to think what what her name was. Well, I don't remember that.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

So it'll come to you.

SPEAKER_04 26:38

So let me so Jerry, let me ask you. We've heard Catherine, we've heard your theory. Jerry, what's your theory? Are you along the same lines or do you have a different theory?

Jerry’s Case Files And The 1970s Context

SPEAKER_03 26:49

Well I I I'm thinking along the same line. I've got a different person, I think may have been involved, but he's dead. There's no DNA from him. And I I I see somehow some DNA from his family. Just to ruling out.

SPEAKER_04 27:15

Yeah. Have they have you approach have you approached that family? No, I haven't. No, have have you, Catherine?

SPEAKER_03 27:21

No. I I I leave it up together working. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Yeah. We don't want to step on anywhere on this investigation. Well, no, we don't. That's they're doing a great job.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

And we're just trying to at least give it g give reverence and respect and and honor everybody that's been involved and get some clarity to it. I'm sorry, Mike. I thank you for taking your time on this project.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

I want to talk a little bit about that too, because one of the things that we are really work at is we want Joanne to be remembered for more than just her death.

SPEAKER_04 27:56

The girl that died. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

And so we have had two scholarships in her name at the um uh beauty school over in Jackson, yes. Very nice that have been awarded to hometown girls that want to be beauticians. We have had a memorial service. I was shocked to find that she had never had, I mean, her regular funeral, yes, but it's been 50 years and nobody has as when we went out to to do the memorial at her uh at her graveside, um, not this year, but the the year before, to do the candlelight when nobody'd been there for a very long time.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

You know, I'll I'll make a I'll make a commitment right now. I wish I'd known this a year ago. How about Liz? Next year, October, we have a memorial. We organize a memorial service for her.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Yeah. Well, okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

She's almost gone.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

Again, I see going going going to I uh uh with with with uh cream with uh um the spirit. I believe the spirits left the body, and I'm just going to, you know, what am I going to the graveside to worship? No, no, that's all you know. I know I gotcha, I gotcha. I gotcha, but you know a remembrance. A remembrance. And that's what I feel like we're doing now, and that's why I really wanted to bring everybody in that showed some respect. And and again, the my frustration too has been because there was so much negatively negativity directed towards the police department directly. And I was always told as a little girl, as a young person, to to keep driving and go to the next town. Don't trust the police officers. And back in the day, you guys were not vetted to the level that they are now. Is that fair? And now officers have to have four year college degrees in Minnesota. Uh they have to be at least 21. Have to have a a full psych evaluation, a full background check. You know, it's a whole different world. So I mean, I do I do want to make sure that that that point is and is out.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Even back then, there was a huge difference between sheriff's department and local police. Local police did not have the same requirements. Um and most of the sheriffs had at least had some military training or or something like that coming in.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

But when it came to the small town police, there are many that were um well a lot of them were meter readers.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Uh their job was to collect the nickels.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

I I have a joke back in the day when we were used to bar hopping, well, not bar hopping. We, you know, we'd go out and have a keger out at out at Cedar Lake and stuff. I got back into town and got into my my dad's truck and drove away. The next day, the officer on duty said, Man, I don't know how you ever made it home. You dragged me. Well, that's why my dad does not have a starter anymore, because I was not in the position.

Genetic Genealogy Roadmap

SPEAKER_04 31:21

So let me we're gonna wrap this up, but let me ask you one last question, and that is you told us that there's a three-part series coming out, correct? Yes. And tell me, can you tell me anything about that?

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Um I on this case. Committee films and Maria Oz are have been working on this uh production about Joanne Story and have interviewed uh many of the people that that um have uh part to to Joanne's story. They also uh just produced on I think it was CBS, the Jody Who's in Truth, the new so if you watch that one, it'll be along the same lines as as that one.

SPEAKER_04 32:11

Any clue? 2026? Do we not?

SPEAKER_00 32:13

I do not know. You don't know. No. And they keep um I get emails from them saying, got a news for us.

SPEAKER_04 32:20

So I think they're waiting on some type of disclosure for the story because I would love to have some kind of closure for the story. Yeah. Well, so thank you so much, Jerry. Former sheriff. You're still Sheriff Jerry. No. No. You hung that one up, didn't you?

SPEAKER_03 32:41

I I gave it up. I I didn't get my license renewed.

SPEAKER_04 32:47

That's right. Well, enjoy in retirement.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

We sure appreciate him with this. This Joanne's story would not have the the um energy and the legitimacy that it has now with him on board. And Jerry ha is an encyclopedia of facts. I mean, he could he will say, No, I remember distinctly, I went here, and he can drive to that house and say, This is is so it was.

SPEAKER_04 33:21

If you get anything new, you got our you have our number now.

unknown 33:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:26

We'd love to have you back. And and you know, there we could probably go on for 12 more hours, but obviously I don't have 12 more hours.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

But uh I did want to mention that Catherine does write several other books. Do you have several other books available?

SPEAKER_00 33:39

Well, I have one that's coming out next month.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Is this one that you've written fiction?

SPEAKER_00 33:44

It is uh historical fiction. Historical fiction. It is um called Hellbent, The Life and Loves of Aura Statz Brown, and it is set at the turn of the century. Um in and it's a story of a young woman from Iowa who hops on the train and goes to Botnow, North Dakota in 1903, and she works in a public defender's office. Oh, so it's a and when does that very interesting? Um in it it'll be out before Christmas.

SPEAKER_04 34:18

Okay on Amazon or where do you read it?

SPEAKER_00 34:21

I don't sell books on Amazon, they're horrible for authors. So uh um, if you are on the Joanne Bontchess, I put a link on there. Yep, and so that will go to directly to the publisher.

SPEAKER_02 34:37

No, this is not you're not the not the Facebook page that we've been following with with Donovan Mickelson has a Facebook page. Yours is what is yours separately?

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Joanne Bonchus 19 uh Cold Case 1975.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

And that's Facebook. Yes, okay. Okay, 1975.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

And that's Facebook. There's also a better the devil you know Facebook page.

SPEAKER_05 34:58

Okay.

Motive Theories And Last Known Interactions

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Um, I see about that book. But for the group that comes to the meet and greets, and for that information, you would go to the Joanne Boncho.

SPEAKER_04 35:09

How many folks show up at your who how many folks will show up at Wednesday at your oh it all depends.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

But it yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

Five to thirty?

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Yeah, anywhere. Okay. Anywhere between there. And uh usually there are people that um know Joanne or knew her or had th some connection to the area. Yeah. But we've had people come from the cities and from Sioux Falls and all of that that are are interested in the true crime issue.

SPEAKER_04 35:38

Well, we've got it out. Uh we even have people listening uh in Europe and uh I've got a couple of listeners in uh where was it, uh Asia.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

In Australia.

SPEAKER_04 35:48

Australia, your dad. We discovered I kept thinking, how are we reaching somebody in Australia, you know, or in uh India and Greece? We've got a listener in Greece, and I'm going, how in the world did they find us? I'm now I know with Australia, at least.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Oh, I yeah, I didn't want to pump that up too much.

SPEAKER_04 36:06

Yeah. But at least I know how that one came about. But uh some of the others I figure maybe our former uh foreign exchange students here. That's true. Or just somebody who stumbled across a podcast one day.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

I did want to give a shout out to the Martin County Historical Society and the Wattenwater County Historical Society because they are so well organized, they can help find anything, and they are very approachable, very helpful. And I as a researcher, I've been to places that aren't and so where there you have to be careful of the bats and whatnot when you're looking through boxes.

SPEAKER_04 36:44

Yeah, L Linny sends us probably a story a month, just something from the Historical Society. It's great. It's always good stuff, it's always good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

And if you are looking for that little bit of information, they can point you in the right direction real fast.

SPEAKER_04 36:58

Good deal. All righty. Thanks, Lynn. Say goodbye. Thanks, Mike. Bye, everybody. Thank you. Bye bye, folks. Appreciate you guys being here. We didn't we didn't give them coffee, at least the folks. All right, talk to you next time.