Perspectives on Faith and Life 2: Live!

Mark, Katy, and Sara are back — and this time they brought more jokes (some great, some gloriously terrible), more laughter, and yes, audio gremlins appeared in the pursuit of something new! But that's kind of the point. 

Sorta Sacred was never meant to be overly polished. It's honest, it's human, and it's a little messy — just like faith itself. Pull up a chair for another round of real conversation about the questions that matter most.

Thanks to the incredible production team of Sorta Sacred:

Music: Brian Schou 

Tech support: Miles Thompson 

Design: Lauren Brown 

Merch: Allison Winter 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hi, Jess. Thanks for listening to this episode of Sword of Sacred. This is our first ever live recording. We decided to feature the second edition of Perspectives on Faith and Life. The first episode aired back in October, and we had such a great time doing it, and we got such a great response, we decided to try it again. So if you didn't check out the first episode, go back and check it out. We decided to be bold and try our first ever episode recorded in front of a live audience. And it was great. And it was so great that we overloaded our audio board. So the sound quality was not what we hoped for. But we had a great time, and the audience had a great time. And so we still wanted to share this episode with you. The audio's a little echoey, so bear with us. But the highlight of the episode is that the theme song was played live by Brian Scow and his two sons, Jackson and Cooper. And we geeked out big time because it was so cool to hear it live. Thank you to everyone who submitted a question for this episode. We could not have done this podcast without you. We tried to use as many questions that were submitted to us as possible. So please enjoy the first ever episode recorded in front of a live studio audience. Hi, welcome.

SPEAKER_04 1:30

Are we ready?

SPEAKER_03 1:31

Um how are you today?

SPEAKER_05 1:41

I'm nervous.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

Why?

SPEAKER_05 1:44

Because this is live and I'm not great live. I'm not very edited either, but it's not great. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

I have a really important question to ask you. Okay. If you were one breakfast food, what would you be?

SPEAKER_05 2:08

Well that's that's kind of easy. Is it? Yeah. I would be bacon because everybody loves bacon.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

I thought it would be like green.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

No bacon.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Oh bacon.

SPEAKER_05 2:19

I mean really breakfast food. I mean I would say uh quiche because I'm versatile. I'm comfortable in coffee shops and diners and uh high dining. I'm delicious.

SPEAKER_04 2:36

I'm comfortable everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

Did you did you like to steal stuff out of my brain?

SPEAKER_04 2:45

I took your word. Okay. It's every breakfast food that describes you.

SPEAKER_03 2:50

I don't know if we've all listened to a podcast episode recently, but I love bagels. Tom's here. Tom's here. I love bagels, and uh I think I could be uh available because I'm also versatile. Um I can be sweet, but I can be savory, and I can be spicy, a little crunchy, and really cheesy. I'm available. So let's start delicious. So speaking of questions, nobody actually asks, uh, welcome around the school of Aston Pastor's perspectives on face and life. We are back. We are live, you are here with us. Thank you for being here with us today. Um, the most exciting part that I'm looking forward to the most is we have a live performance from Sebrian Arthur, and he has her jobs along with him today. So take it away.

SPEAKER_05 4:32

That was fantastic. So welcome back to Soda Sacred, the podcast where we find the sacred hiding in the ordinary moments of life. If you're new here, we launched last fall with the idea that faith conversations don't have to be stuffy or scary. They can be honest, a little messy, and occasionally pretty funny. You can find us wherever you get your podcast. Go back and listen to episode one if you want the full origin story.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

Uh let's get into it today with the introductions of our guests. You know them, you love them. But first, St. Paul's being your pastor, Source Sacred co-host, Mark Meet Hammer. Uh, if you want to know more about Mark, go back to episode one in New Year's Homework. Alongside Mark, uh it's Pastor Sarah Olden Smith. Sarah is about to release her first ever book, which is incredibly exciting, about the closing of St. Peter Lutheran Church in New Jersey and the Blessed New Beginnings that arose in the years after that. So she's a published author, an all-around wonderful human being, quite possibly the living embodiment of a Disney princess. Last but certainly not least, we have Pastor Katie Warren. Katie's quick wit and attention to detail make her the person you want on every project. Her work with St. Paul Youth through confirmation gives kids a huge building block for their lives of faith. She's thoughtful and competitive and takes March Madness very seriously. So we're gonna fill out our breakfast tomorrow. Rock chocolate, that's all I have to say. All right. I think I'm ready to dive in. Are you ready to dive in?

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

All right, how about you guys? Are you ready to dive in? Okay, the rules are simple. There are many. Um, but if you get way too theological for me, I am gonna airborne you. Okay, if I see anybody blazing over, I will take that as a sign that I need to airborne them. All right. Let's start. We're gonna throw some questions out about church and pastoral life. First of all, what is the funniest or weirdest thing you have been asked to do as a pastor?

SPEAKER_02 7:05

This is a when I was a youth director in Minneapolis, we I worked with kids at an after-school program in North Minneapolis, and there was um some friends of the congregation who were pilots, and so they thought it would be really fun to take the kids in our after-school program on flights so they could see their neighborhood from the sky. So I got to go on a tiny little plane and uh fly over Minneapolis as like a test drive before our kids have to go fly. It was pretty great.

SPEAKER_05 7:38

I've I haven't been asked to do anything too weird. I've been asked to bless a lot of things. Uh just random uh kind of artifacts or things that people think it's right to have the priest or the pastor bless. So, you know, especially in those first couple years at a seminary, I don't know what I'm doing. None of us do. So it's okay, I'll bless this. What does that mean? What does that mean? What does that mean? And then you're just secret being a pastor is you learn to make stuff up real quick. I didn't say that out loud. Um but it's it's it's it's a sense of people put um people want to ascribe meaning to various sorts of things, and they want that to be blessed. So kind of do a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

We did one time have a big, it was like a macaw or some kind of gorgeous parentish bird brought to our pet blessing or animal blessing on St. Francis Day, and that was pretty cool to bless this gorgeous, huge red and colorful bird. That's pretty special.

SPEAKER_03 8:39

Okay, speaking of days that aren't Saturday, Sunday, or Wednesday, what do you guys even actually do on those other days?

SPEAKER_01 8:49

I'll speak for myself. One of the things I love about my work is that no day is the same. And most times when I come in in the morning and look at my to-do list and think about what I want to get accomplished in the day, the day rarely ends up looking the way I think it's going to look because a lot of times the interruptions are the ministry, are the things that actually matter most, and so it's the things I'm not planning for. But it's everything, I mean I'm trying to think even this past week, it's everything from we had a meeting about we were always planning, you know, a week ahead or so for our different ministries, so planning for confirmation this Wednesday, or for our uh Children's Fifth Friday service, thinking through those things. It's writing notes and making phone calls, it's um uh like it's hard to even name because every day is so different. It's um but it's it's really just all sorts of different ways of connecting, either connecting or planning. One of those two things usually is happening a lot in the chat.

SPEAKER_05 9:47

It's safe and easy to say that we are all very busy. But the most important thing we do every day, all the time is be passage to our people. So while the two-do lists are always long and intense and probably a bit overwhelming all now, the most important thing we get to do is connect with our people in all sorts of ways, whether it's writing notes, calls, visits, all those things. That's the number one thing that is on our list. That we are that's that's our job. Our job is our people to love all of you and take care of you in the ways that you need. And that's probably the most beautiful part of what we get to do.

SPEAKER_03 10:26

What is one book or resource that has helped you most in your ministry?

SPEAKER_02 10:44

I've never given the like only one answer. Um, I have like four or five I can I I would name. Um I including um there's this lovely, I don't know why, but one of the books that was really formative for me is this lovely book called Warriors Don't Cry by Melba Petillo Bates. She's one of the Little Rock Nine, and uh about her faith and uh her courage and her family, and it continues to be really informative for me. There's a great book called Why Christian by Douglas John Hall, who's a theologian from Montreal who recently died. Um he wrote it for college students about sort of essential things of faith, and it continues to kind of be for me. I also love Mary Albert Poems, and so I read a poem every day, and so Area's poetry has been really important for me. My dad was a writer and a pastor, and he wrote a book called The Evangelical Pastor in like 1991, two, four, three, in the 90s. Um all of us are wearing the same clothes everyone's wearing right now. Um it's an incredible book about ministry, and because my dad died many years ago, it's a gift to be able to have his wisdom continue to bless me, and uh pastor went today.

SPEAKER_05 12:04

There's a small book of uh a couple of shorter stories called The Hammer of God, kind of uh and iconic work in uh in the human circles. It's it's it's not overtly theological per se, and it's it's fiction, it's just it's stories, but it has a beautiful way of framing grace in community that I read very early on in my discernment process, and uh it's it kind of helps uh focus my my thinking and theology where it really needs to be.

SPEAKER_03 12:35

Alright, we're gonna move on to some theology and scripture questions. Remember, I have an air horn. Why do other Lutheran and Catholic traditions not allow everyone to take communion?

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Um this is a really great question, and one that in in many ways I feel like it's easy for us to say outside of other people's traditions. Um, but because uh we can speak, I I just never feel great about speaking on behalf of other faith leaders or traditions or communities. Um I do know the ways that it's it hurts and it's harmful for many of our own people. Um, and I also know that in many ways it is grounded in tradition and practice and um ecclesiology. Um, the word communion um it comes from the root word calm, which is about like togetherness and union, which is familiar to us, like one. And so it's really about a sense of community and oneness. And so for some traditions, that getting that sense of oneness or community is really about um alignment with belief and practice, and so to be able to, my interpretation again is um that to practice or be a part of a communion is about a commitment to that communion. Does that make sense? Um, and so um, and so it's rooted in this sense of um theological understanding, and in many ways, um, what they see is a sense of love, um, while others feel it differently. And so again, I don't want to speak on behalf of other traditions, um, but I also know that here at St. Paul and in our tradition, it's a really important thing for us to live that communion, that understanding of oneness with that sense of openness and drawing people into communion um with God and with each other. Um, and so that's an important part of how we practice.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

Why do we celebrate the cross when Jesus died on it?

SPEAKER_01 14:31

I think it's the same reason we call Good Friday goods. It's the idea that the cross, the way in which Jesus died, which was there's nothing good about it necessarily, and he was crucified, it was brutal, it was awful, all those sorts of things. But it's it's that what comes from that, right? It's the gift of grace, it's the gift of of what Jesus was willing to do on the cross for us that we give thanks for, that we um celebrate my identity the right word, but we we are you know it's for our own salvation that that Jesus did that, and so it's not a good thing in the sense of uh, you know, let's throw a party, but it's a good thing in the sense that this is a gift that we didn't earn and it's ours, it was just given to us, and for that we can be fine.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

Why are there only 12 disciples?

SPEAKER_05 15:24

Well they're there are the twelve named, and they're you know, let's call the disciples, but you know, through through the gospels, there's others who say that they have they that they also were disciples of of Jesus. Uh those who end up following him. So all maybe not within the formal list of twelve, I don't think it's wise for us to put a cap or a limit on the twelve as if there can only be that many. There are all sorts of disciples, and the the disciples aren't just you know twelve guys either. We have examples throughout scripture of women joining the movement as well. So while there is this sense of putting those gates around the twelve, if we read read our gospel pretty thoroughly, we see it's uh it's a very large group of people, this wonderful mob of followers surrounding him and following him everywhere he went and tried to learn everything they could. So a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

I might even say that we are too. So we get to be disciples too, and it continues on in us.

SPEAKER_03 16:33

We're gonna switch to some big God questions. Why did God create us?

SPEAKER_05 16:44

I like this question. You know, God made those first people in that garden, and one of my favorite images from those early chapters of Genesis is that uh those those two humans would go for walks in the evening in the garden, and God would go hang out with them too. That's just a beautiful, beautiful thing to think about. They went for a lovely walk and God joined them. I think God made people because God wanted to hang out with people. And God knew that we needed to hang out with God too. There's some beautiful relationship on it. There's a beautiful relational aspect of it. I don't think that God made us so that we can make God happy by pleasing God, whatever that may be. But I just think there's the sense of being together. That's kind of lovely.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

Does God play sports?

unknown 17:43

Yes. But not for Kansas.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

Here's what I have two responses. The first is that there's clearly sports in the Bible because we hear in Exodus that Moses served on Pharaoh's court. We also hear in scripture, and in some ways, piggybacking on what Pastor Mark just talked about, is the kind of delight and sense of play that God has, that God clearly takes delight and joy in creation, in the world. There's a uh I can't remember what Psalm is it, 98 or one of the Psalms, um talks about how, about God creating and talks about Leviathan, this like deep sea creature, monster thing. I don't know what it is exactly, but it the scripture says that um that God made the Leviathan for the sport of it, for the fun of it, for the delight of it, and the joy of it. And so scripture points to God finding great delight and joy in play, and particularly in the play of creation. And so it might not be NCAA basketball, but there's a whole lot of joy.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

Or maybe when I feel lonely or depressed, what can actually help me not feel that way?

SPEAKER_02 19:15

I think one of um there's lots of pieces to to our experiences of sadness and depression, and especially this time of year when it's been great for like a thousand straight days. Um but I think one of the, for me, one of the best ways I um can find my way outside of those places of loneliness or shadows or whatever that might be is to serve and to love and to care for other people, to find my way outside of myself. And so in those times when I'm just feeling locked down, the best thing I can do is pick up a phone and call one of you, or head out to visit our beloved people in nursing homes, or um run to the grocery store and pick up some food for friendly house or all those kinds of ways to get out of ourselves and just look towards others and service is one way to kind of step out of some of those places. I think outside too. Um I think there's a you have to a long walk. There's this uh again, give me a microphone if I'll talk for her, but there's a Latin phrase um uh salvando alondo or salviture albilando, I think that is the Latin phrase. Salvitur albilando, ambilando, which means No, you're you're gonna explain it. So which means um it we are saved by walking. We are saved by walking. Um and there is nothing but a good walk, uh there's lots of things a good walk can't cure, but many things it can. Um, and just to get outside and breathe and move, it's um really a saving grace for me.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

I think a lot of sense I would just add, I mean I think you said it, but I would for myself it's it's it's gratitude. Um when I when I feel like I'm sucked into my own grief or world or whatever it might be, trying to figure out what I'm grateful for, or to just be able to name things that you're grateful for. And you can always find something to be grateful for if you're looking for it, and you can always find things to complain about or be sad about or whatever if you're looking for those two. So for me, it's trying to name out loud sometimes what am I grateful for, and that helps me get outside of my own self a bit.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

The other thing is uh sometimes, um, as my mom would always say, some things in life are too hard to do alone, and so it's also okay to all ask for help from mental health professionals, from a friend. There's lots of resources, um, and so sometimes despite a good walk and a list of gratitudes, we also just need help, and that's okay too.

SPEAKER_03 21:53

How do you or do you encourage non-believers to believe?

SPEAKER_01 22:00

I yeah, I put this question in it I um I I almost felt like the premise of the question in some ways. I I thought about my four-year-old son, almost five, and we tried to play soccer. But of course, we deeply hope he loves soccer in our family. So we we you know had them play soccer last last fall, and we didn't love it. And we were a little sad because we really hope that he loved sports. Um, but also we had a lot of conversation about like, well, he was hungry at the time. Maybe he just needs to be old. Maybe it wasn't the right community, maybe his mom shouldn't be his coach, and maybe it was just the weather, maybe it was not a great time for him, lots of things. And so I sort of think the analogy is the same for what you could call non-believers. I almost want to say maybe they just haven't found the right community or the right space or the right words to articulate what they do believe or what they do feel. And so for me, if somebody were to come up to me and say, I don't believe in God, or I, you know, I'm I'm not sure what I believe, I would say the first thing to do is just to keep trying. To keep try it, try a different community, try a different expression of that faith, try a different time. Maybe you know, there's people who love five o'clock worship who would never come to eight o'clock worship because of even just the time of how you worship and those sorts of things. That it's less to me about trying to figure out if you believe, or you know, I'm this way, or I'm this way, and more just like keep trying. Just keep trying things out. And you might actually realize you believe more than you do, or you are connected to God more than you think you are, and you just haven't found the right way to connect to God.

SPEAKER_05 23:42

And I think we've all learned that there is nothing we can say to someone who may claim to not have faith that's going to magically uh arrive them at that place. There's no phrase we can say that will uh automatically change that uh that way of thinking. So I think part of what we get to do, not just us, but I mean all of us as gathered, is live lives that reflect our faith. And maybe by doing that we will reveal something of the grace of God that had otherwise not been noticed by someone, and maybe they'll start to ask us questions. But I don't think it's our job to necessarily convince people, but it's to show a way of life and do our best to embody grace as much as we can.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Someone once has told me that um the greatest proof of God and God's existence is a person whose life doesn't make any sense unless God were active and alive in their lives. And you all are living that. Here you are spending a gray Sunday morning together talking about big questions that were ridiculous ones, depending on not that any of your questions are ridiculous, just I think sorry. What breakfast item would you be? True ridiculous. As well as people who give of their resources to utter strangers or ways or give up their time to deliver food to a refuge family with whom you can't even communicate because their languages are different. Those are all things that in many ways on the surface seem utterly unexplainable and completely ridiculous, and yet it's how love is made known and how this world has changed. And for me, that all of those actions are examples and demonstrations and proof of God's existence. And so the reality of our lives are the ways we can live that goodness in the world, and people will be transformed and attracted and drawn into Christ's goodness in life because of how we live that love in the world. I'm curious where you get some of the real life stories that you integrate in the sermons.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Just try to read a lot. I just um I have a whole folder of uh hard copy and then like a bookmark on my computer. I've just every time I see an interesting story, I think that might make a good sermon point someday. So I just kind of save it and stash it away, and kind of stash away in my brain, and then um I just try to read lots of different um you know blogs or just the news, even or interesting stories and um keep them in mind for whenever the right kind of theme might come along. That's my process anyway. Yeah, the same for me as well.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

I also journal a lot, and so kind of my own stories as well as the things I heard or read, or I try to keep Katie Hansen, who's um really been around here for a long time, she teaches at Augustana, and she she has taught a lot about keeping journals and how to kind of stories from books and things you read, and so I do have both a file folder, a journal with notes in it, and I'm sure there's some more efficient way of keeping track of all of it. But there's just lots of ways of trying to hold on to stories because every time I think I'm gonna say this and remember this, I never do, and so it's it uh collects in along the way as we're reading and listening and writing and all those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_05 27:10

In addition to those, I I I'll say that writing isn't something that comes naturally to me. This is a muscle I've had to work, and the the writing load that that we have at St. Paul is significantly higher than any other church I've come out to serve. So I've gotten in the habit since coming down here of just uh observing what's going on in the world around me, and not like and not just the big newsy things, but you know, something that you you drive past to see two people walking by and they're they're doing something kind of goofy. Those things that kind of make you notice what's going on around you, and then I start to play what got what might God be doing in this situation, or let's play the game. What were those two people talking about? It's it's this sense of observing the world around you, and then finding ways to incorporate that into writing of all sorts in all sorts of different uh contexts. So, yeah, reading, listening, watching, and then just observing the world and seeing what's interesting. Because if I find something interesting, chances are one or two of you might as well. I mean, we can flesh that out. I think it's time to wrap up. I think so.

SPEAKER_03 28:27

But don't clap yet. We can still mess this up.

SPEAKER_05 28:32

I have something to read first, hold on. The beautiful thing about faith questions is that they're not problems to be solved, they are mysteries to be lived. So, Sarah and Katie, thank you. Thank you so much for showing up and being honest. And thanks to all of you here in this room for uh supporting us and bringing the energy today. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

Thanks for listening to the Source Sacred Podcast available wherever you find podcasts. Um keep finding the sacred in your every day.