Ep. 73 - Hunting For Love And Rocks with Debbie Hawthorne & Travey J

In this episode of Busted Knees and Pretty Trees, we sit down with Debbie Hawthorne and Travey J to talk about a passion they share—rockhounding. From searching gravel pits and creek beds to celebrating the thrill of an unexpected find, Debbie and Travis share what it’s like to explore the world of rocks and minerals side by side.
We talk about how they got started, what keeps them coming back to the hunt, and some of the memorable discoveries they’ve made along the way. Whether you're a seasoned rockhound or just curious about the hobby, this episode is a fun look at how adventure is even better when it’s shared.
Grab your rock hammer, hit the trail with us, and listen in as we talk rocks, exploration, and the joy of rockhounding together!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_08 0:10

Hello! Welcome to Busted Knees and Pretty Trees, a show about running off into the woods, making your own discoveries, and taking a good long look at 'em. To learn and stuff. I do recommend taking people with you. It's much more delightful. That's what I think. I want to thank you all for listening in. I am Travis White. That is Patty Richardson. Howdy. And that outstanding young man over there is Bradley Greer.

SPEAKER_06 0:40

Well, hello. How do you feel about Patty speaking out of turn before he's introduced? That's just what I do.

SPEAKER_05 0:48

I can't contain myself. I try all the time. A hundred percent of my life, I'm trying to contain my my my thing. Yeah. And it's unattainable. Undetainable. Unwhate the fuck. I just don't do it.

SPEAKER_08 1:04

No reason to get upset about it.

SPEAKER_07 1:06

Thank you. Uh, do you guys follow the show on Spotify or Apple? Yeah. Yeah. Do you?

SPEAKER_08 1:14

Oh man. I'm actually kind of surprised. Because uh, that's what we need. We need some followers, so all y'all listen. Yeah. I was hoping I could catch you guys with your pants down, not trying to help out the podcast.

SPEAKER_05 1:30

No, dude. I pay attention to that stuff more than I pay attention to almost anything else in my life. I love it. And do follow, man. Give us some likes. We love you guys, and we just want to keep doing this. And every follow obviously helps us to be able to do this.

SPEAKER_08 1:47

Bustedpretty.com, Patty, the socials.

SPEAKER_05 1:51

Bested Pretty at Blue Sky or Busted Knees and Pretty Trees at Instagram.

SPEAKER_08 1:57

That's pretty good. That's your best one yet. Well, there's only 50%. All right, listeners. Now that we've got that out of the way. We're gonna need some stuff for today's show. We're gonna need a rock hammer. Ooh. A rock pick. Uh some color.

SPEAKER_06 2:16

Andy Dufrein. That's how he got out of Shawshank prison. He had a rock pick? Yeah. Where the hell did he get that? Because remember Red was like Never seen it. He said he wanted a rock pick, and once I got it, I rec realized what he was talking about. Like he thought it was gonna be like a damn, like damn near pickaxe. Yeah. Like a working on the railroad pickaxe? Damn near. Damn near? But not quite near one, but not quite. No, you do. You remember that? Like that's what he tunneled out of his. I'm pretty sure it was like he made little chess pieces and stuff out of it, like using that rock hammer. Hell.

SPEAKER_07 2:56

Did you remember that?

SPEAKER_08 2:57

No. He damn near remembers it. Well, I don't know what kind of rock pick that was, but I do recommend Estwing. Yeah. Hey, how do you how do you feel about Brad interrupting when you're interrupted? I'd totally derailing PH. Again, nothing worth getting upset about. A spray bottle. Any type. With water in it. Any type. A sturdy sack. Preferably holy. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Just in case you let them rock's hair out. Improper footwear. Check out Busted Knees and Pretty Trees Podcast episode 23 if you want to learn about uh footwear on the trail.

SPEAKER_05 3:42

God damn, Travis. I'm so happy you said that.

SPEAKER_08 3:45

Oh, and one last thing. If you don't tuck your T's sunscreen for your lower back. Oh.

SPEAKER_05 3:52

Dude, as you said that, I was like, yeah, bro, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_08 3:57

Or tuck your T's? I learned that the funny way.

SPEAKER_05 4:01

I get those untucked.

SPEAKER_08 4:02

I had a whale tail sunburned. Oh, I bet you did, dude. Looking for some rocks on the Yeah, we saw it. I saw it.

SPEAKER_05 4:09

Uh, I probably did too. I just can't remember. I feel like I do remember this now. Was I here? I think so, yeah. Nice.

SPEAKER_08 4:20

Well, if everybody's wondering why uh we're bringing all this stuff, it's because we're gonna be talking about rocks again today. Oh, yeah. And we've got a couple of rock hounds for guests on the show. So maybe we can help out some of those uh non-hounders out there to uh understand why we're always looking at the ground and uh we're kind of obsessed with that sweet, sweet treasure buried in the dirt. Yes. So if you're interested in discovering your own precious curiosities of Earth's making or the imprint of prehistoric life, stick around. I haven't seen a rock in the wild for quite some time, but the sun is back and the temp is rising. First 70-degree day of 2026 here in northeast Indiana, and I'm itching to start creeping around the banks of the Maumee. Oh man. So let's start talking rocks and let's get our guests in here. At the very same moment, our two guests discovered a love of wandering without aim in hopes of finding cool stuff on the ground.

SPEAKER_06 5:32

Man, I feel like we're Dude, this is awesome. This is awesome.

SPEAKER_05 5:35

I'm fucking so into this right now.

SPEAKER_06 5:38

I feel like we're getting a glimpse into an intimate moment.

SPEAKER_04 5:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 5:44

It happened at the same time. It also happened at the same place. A stony beach in northwestern Michigan on 4th of July weekend. One touristy Potaski stone discovery became the gateway drug that started the whole rock hounding obsession. She can be heard finding something cool from up to three miles away. If she's got pockets, they'll be full with little pebbles and other interesting finds. Rock hound rank pending. Debbie Hawthorne.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Hey! Welcome to the show. Thank you. And that is accurate. You will hear me from miles away.

SPEAKER_06 6:40

That doesn't surprise me. How do you feel about rank pending?

SPEAKER_01 6:44

I don't think that that's fair, but I'll take it for now.

SPEAKER_06 6:47

I'll have to earn my ranking.

SPEAKER_05 6:49

He he has been known to be harsh on what is is the ranking across all outdoor activities the same ranking or per activity.

SPEAKER_08 6:59

Yeah. Per activity, what is the ranking? Like transfer your birding rank over to rock hound.

SPEAKER_05 7:06

What is Dr. Benjamin DeTillo to what's he ranked compared to you compared to Debbie?

SPEAKER_08 7:14

Well, I mean I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 7:18

Master journeyman.

SPEAKER_05 7:19

I would say he's a master.

SPEAKER_08 7:21

There's rumors he's not a good rock hand. He's a good geologist, but it's not a good ro fight.

SPEAKER_05 7:27

I feel like this is something between you, doctor, and your boss that I don't want to get involved in.

SPEAKER_06 7:34

We heard on the episode that he wouldn't be able to find a fossil if it hit him in the face. Oh. Didn't we hear that? Shouted at him. Yeah, shouted at him. Oh then he did not hit him in the face.

SPEAKER_05 7:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 7:44

But that's just hearsay. Yeah, that is hearsay. And I don't know if I trust half the stuff my boss said. Yeah. Touche.

SPEAKER_05 7:54

So what's what's unranked? Unranked, or we just don't know the rank. Hold on, we're still under evaluation. Okay. Well, I'm fighting for you, Debbie.

SPEAKER_06 8:04

Let me introduce our other guests. Okay. Yeah, oh, I'm still a novice burder. Yeah, you haven't re-ranked brands.

SPEAKER_08 8:12

No way, you're journeyman. Oh. You've been journeyman for a while. I'm journeyman.

SPEAKER_05 8:16

Wait, where the fuck does journeyman sit into this? I don't understand.

SPEAKER_08 8:20

Journeyman doesn't seem that's like you're novice, you have to prove yourself. And then journeyman, like you're ready to learn. Really? Like you're one of the boys.

SPEAKER_05 8:30

Oh, you're one of the boys, and now we're gonna take you under these big ass wings of mine, and we're gonna teach you.

SPEAKER_08 8:36

Yeah. Oh shit, dude. And Chad's kind of like Brad's mentor.

SPEAKER_06 8:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 8:41

Chad is kind of like, but where do I sit now? You're just kind of the punk kid that wants to do it, but you don't want to follow the rules of men's team. Like you joined the girls because not the boys.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

I hate you, Dad! I don't need you.

SPEAKER_05 8:56

I played eighth grade volleyball for the women's team.

SPEAKER_08 8:59

Where is this going?

SPEAKER_05 9:00

I don't know. That's true.

SPEAKER_08 9:03

Did you really?

SPEAKER_05 9:04

No, that was the story of my friend Joey. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 9:08

I want to hear that after the show.

SPEAKER_08 9:11

And finally, our other guest. Travis. Oh. Debbie's darling, honey. And I can't be more thrilled that we enjoy doing this together. Because everybody always has, like, or I always say, oh, Debbie seems like she's so excited to do this. Look at rocks with me. And even though I doubt it myself. I'm like, is she feigning? But no, the way she you yell and scream, I'm like, there's no way that's fake joy. Yeah. And so I believe it. And she's she's confirmed it. And I feel pretty grateful for that.

SPEAKER_05 9:51

I am unbelievably unbelievably excited to have both of you guys on the podcast tonight.

SPEAKER_08 9:56

And we've just we started together, and then we're we took that trip to Michigan and we found some stones on the beach where all the tourists go to find those kinds of stones. Potoski. And that just kind of started the whole thing. We can't do that.

SPEAKER_05 10:11

Oh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

We just you have to find one.

SPEAKER_05 10:14

Yeah, you have to be there to do that. Not ski. Yeah, you gotta be there. No, they're potosky to us, Brad. You guys found Toskies. Yeah, yeah. Can we say that? Can we say that you guys found Toskies? Yes. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_08 10:27

Oh, and uh one final thing about me. Also, unranked rock hound. Oh nobody's ranked us.

SPEAKER_05 10:40

Wait. We are new, though. So the rock hounding world, you have to somebody else has like a trail name, somebody else has to be.

SPEAKER_08 10:47

I think it's an in-house ranking.

SPEAKER_05 10:49

I think we can rank him.

SPEAKER_08 10:50

We are allowed to rank level four.

SPEAKER_05 10:53

What the f yeah, how do you just is it reasoning? I don't know, dude, because I remember during the episode with Dr. Benjamin DeTillo that Travis held up a whatever, and he was like, What's that? No, that's not what I'm talking about. Go back to the other one. And you were like a couple rounds. Like you can see it in Travis's face.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

Sorry, Dr. Bay. I was like, idiot.

SPEAKER_04 11:17

I turned off my audio.

unknown 11:19

Dumbass.

SPEAKER_06 11:23

I get it. It's like me telling Chad, like, oh, I found a pine ciskin. He said, No, that's an American goldfinch, you fucking idiot.

SPEAKER_05 11:31

You kind of hey man, for real though. Super, super amped to have you both on here. Debbie, you're I mean, you've just lit up Travis's life and then lived up, lit up everybody else's life in your world. So I'm super excited to have you down to the studio. Super excited to have you be a part of this. And I really am intrigued by what you guys kind of have going on. I mean, we have set ourselves up as not just a backpacking hiking podcast, but just trying to influence anybody we can to get outside and take part in the environment that is surrounding you. So the idea that you guys do it together is just uh it's just it I feel like that opens up this world of of possibility.

SPEAKER_08 12:17

Oh and I'd and go like exploring locally has been really cool, but I know I have to be careful because uh any suggestion I make, Debbie will be like, Yeah, let's go.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Like, I'm like, okay, I don't want to go mudding through the river? Sure.

SPEAKER_08 12:32

Yeah, like that's fun.

SPEAKER_05 12:33

There might be some better.

SPEAKER_03 12:35

Hey.

SPEAKER_05 12:36

Oh and there's the news panther. I'm liking this.

SPEAKER_06 12:41

Let's go. Yeah, I'm uh looking forward to dive. Is it about frogs a little more in your throat? Really quick. Sick burn, bro. So we've done a few stories in the last month or two about the lack of snowfall in the mountain uh mountain states of the West. Oh, fuck yeah. Tell me that you're gonna talk to me about planning. Patty cakes tasked me with keeping on top of counting how many stories we come across. Yeah, bro. This is fucking insanely fascinating. And the one thing you asked was uh, like, what are they doing about it? Yeah. What can they do to plan? And I kept saying, like, I don't think you can plan. Well, this week make reservoirs or something. This week, this is a story about a plan that's being proposed. Yes. Story about a plan. Well, so the hard thing is, is there's seven Colorado River states that have to all sign on to an agreement. It's almost like they're all coming together because they all get affected by that watershed of the Colorado River coming down and all its estuaries leading into Colorado River. It's two of the largest reservoirs in in the US, uh Lake Mead, Lake Pow. And is that the second biggest river basin? Uh I don't know. What is Mississippi the biggest? It's the biggest.

SPEAKER_05 14:08

Is that what you were thinking?

SPEAKER_06 14:11

Maybe. I just know it has science. It has two of the largest. It does have two of the largest reservoirs in the US, which is Meade and Powell. Like uh Mead's in Vegas, Powell's in Utah.

SPEAKER_08 14:23

Is one Hoover Dam?

SPEAKER_06 14:26

Yeah, that's Lake Mead, right? I think I think so. Why don't doesn't anybody know? I mean four of us. There are four of us.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

If it's not in a 40-mile radius, I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 14:44

I'm pretty sure Lake Mead is the Hoover Dam. Because it's within driving distance to uh Vegas.

SPEAKER_05 14:52

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_06 14:53

And this is one of the two biggest fucking reservoirs in the goddamn U.S. That makes sense. And that's a huge goddamn dam. So the Hoover Dam is a massive concrete art gravity dam on the Colorado River.

SPEAKER_04 15:04

Yeah. Boom. She's laid in. Uncle Google.

SPEAKER_07 15:07

So um Will you work for free?

SPEAKER_04 15:10

Yeah, is it that podcast? Drive by science denier.

SPEAKER_06 15:13

So the Colorado River involves supplying water for 40 million people in the basins. And this deck the drought's been going on for two decades. So this has been like happening forever. Two decades, twenty years.

unknown 15:29

Thanks for that.

SPEAKER_06 15:30

Thanks for that.

SPEAKER_05 15:31

And yeah, dude, that's that is. I mean, that's that's an entire generation of people. Yeah, I don't know if it's an entire generation of people, but that's a fucking hell of a long time somebody's life to be dealing with a drought, dude.

SPEAKER_08 15:43

Do they regulate? I imagine they regulate water flow in the dam, depending on how much they need.

SPEAKER_06 15:49

And that's what part of this the story is is how do they regulate that better to not run out of water, basically. Especially in years of low snowfall.

SPEAKER_08 16:00

If it continues that way, well, they'll do they'll have to ration what I've been saying.

SPEAKER_05 16:07

This is what this is what I was wondering. Like Brad's saying there's no plan. It's like, bro, you're about to run out in an entire fucking season of new water flowing down and irrigating all these things. The the cattle farms that you guys referenced in the later ep or earlier episodes. All of that stuff is effective. Effective for seven states. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:32

Like you telling me there's no plan? At the further south you get, you're like, it's slimmer and slimmer pickings.

SPEAKER_05 16:40

Yeah, because the Colorado River, I'm almost positive, but not that positive whatsoever, that it goes that the Colorado River doesn't even run to like LA anymore, like or anywhere close.

SPEAKER_08 16:54

I would imagine like farmers and ranchers know more about this problem than anybody else. Well, that's I don't know what I mean.

SPEAKER_05 17:02

Like I agree, but I'm not sure if that they're probably ones voting for this shit.

SPEAKER_08 17:08

Has that dam like have they hit ever had problems with it? Like other cracks? Nothing does it settle.

SPEAKER_03 17:14

Nothing I know of.

SPEAKER_06 17:17

Because they had to build the huge bypass valve, like not valves, but like tunnels through the mountains to divert the river while they're building the dam. So like it's it's got huge spellways.

SPEAKER_08 17:29

That's so insane. Yeah. Just just to think in your mind that we are gonna build this.

SPEAKER_05 17:37

Yeah. Dude, that's that's as a country, that's when we were building things. That's insane. That's when we had a collective goal for the American society to go build things bigger and better than anywhere without computers. Well, now they have now we don't do it.

SPEAKER_08 17:55

We don't build shit anymore. Everybody bitches about everything. Why are we spending all this money on? Touche.

SPEAKER_06 18:04

Touche. So this is an like so what what interested me about this story is think about like uh Yellowstone and uh Grand Tetons. They're part of like a greater, larger forest system, and they were able to dedicate those that square footage, like this is special, we're protecting this, it's never gonna be touched. So, how do you protect water in that environment when it's also something that needs to be harvested or like used? How's the power company feel about it? Yeah, well, and like the storage, and like the reservoirs need to maintain a minimum level, or else they can't use the hydroelectric part of the dams because the water level just doesn't reach the turbines.

SPEAKER_05 18:58

I don't know shit about this stuff, but well, what about storage?

SPEAKER_06 19:01

Well, so what they like what they do now is say, like, Patty, you're a farmer in Colorado, and you're growing hay, and you get allocated this much water per year to water your crops, and you've been doing this for 30 years. Like you've been having these water like you get water rights, and you can pull water from this whatever river, and you've had it for 30 years. Travis is like a new farmer, he's only been doing it for five years, and we're hitting a drought. Patty has like the more senior farmer, so Travis, you get cut off first from water. Patty can still get his like five acre feet of water because he's the more senior.

SPEAKER_08 19:47

So the longer you've been farming, you're like the the like that's how it that's how it works now.

SPEAKER_06 19:53

Okay, but then like so that gives nobody, either of you, any incentive to cut back on your water usage. There's nothing in it for you if you cut back on water usage. Like, don't grow a crop. So with these new programs, this idea is called conservation pools. So it would pay Patty to say historically you've had five acre feet of water usage, which an acre foot is how much water it takes to water one acre of land and saturate the soil by 12 inches. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 20:32

Wow, holy moly.

SPEAKER_06 20:34

Yeah, and that but does that depend on the type of soil as well? Yeah. They say they say like a typical farming soil or like a typical uh soil, like crop soil.

SPEAKER_08 20:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 20:47

So if you only use three acre feet of that and like give two back, that's gonna stay into Lake Mead and go into Lake Mead. And that two like say I have a hundred acre feet total in my lake. Patty, I pay Patty 20 bucks to give me two acres back and not use that water, just give it back to me. But I'm gonna pretend that he never gave it back to me. That two acres doesn't even exist in my world. I still only have a hundred acres. And then that just keeps on going like that. Then eventually that'll build the the water levels back up because right now, like if Patty doesn't use that two acres, I just send it down the river. Like it's just extra water that I'm planning to use to run the hydroelectric dams. Yeah. But now it's like a protected piece of water that like nobody can use for anything. Like it has to stay in that reservoir. Oh, it can't be sent down.

SPEAKER_04 21:51

Smokes, dude.

SPEAKER_06 21:52

But there's still like a lot of open ended stuff about this that they won't figure it out.

SPEAKER_08 21:57

The amount that's protected is. The only amount of water left in in the lake.

SPEAKER_06 22:04

That like I think that's the point of it. They're taking like a conservation angle to it. Like not only is this water valuable to like uh humans, farming crops, it's also valuable to the ecosystem and yeah, right, the nearby communities. Flora and fauna, communities, everything. But I think it's a like it's a different way to approach the water situation is saying like what happens is wow, that is awesome.

SPEAKER_05 22:32

I don't know. I don't actually, I'm not sure if it's awesome because I'm not a thousand percent. I mean, you're doing a great job there, Walt Brad and Room.

SPEAKER_06 22:40

It's super open and open-ended. Like they don't know who's gonna they don't know who's gonna manage that that conservation water that's bought back. So, like, say if the same person that runs the hydroelectric dam manages that water that gets bought back, the conservation water, like okay, that we don't trust that. But if it's like a land trust or somebody that owns that water, quote unquote, like are they leaning towards anything? Like, do they have any buyers? That's what's up for debate right now is like how does this all play out? Like, how much do people get paid to not plant corn? Like, we'll pay you to not plant corn, the amount of money that it you would have made off that corn. Like they're trying to figure all that stuff out right now.

SPEAKER_05 23:23

Unbelievably awesome.

unknown 23:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 23:26

All right, dudes. We got a wonderful, great show tonight. I say it every single time, but god damn it, dude. I'm telling you, this one is wonderful. We have Debbie Hawthorne and Travis on the mic as our guest tonight talking rock hounding. This is gonna be a little bit of a kind of a thing that we do at the beginning of this season, but it's wonderful because we've talked a shitload about burning. So I think we should throw it over to our compadre and talk a little bit about rock hounding. But what I find most intriguing about this is that we have both of them with us. That this is a spousal thing. This is a relationship. Whatever. What does spousal mean? I'm in like your guys' are in abundant relationships or whatever. So you'll never know. I'm psyched about this. I'm super excited to get into this episode. I have tons of questions. Well, the first one I want to lay into is gonna be uh something, but let's what do you say what do you say we roll with this? Let's get into rock hounding lovebirds.

SPEAKER_06 24:42

All right, well, since Travis is the guest today, we have to ask him the question. Pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_04 24:50

Well, and Debbie.

SPEAKER_06 24:51

Happy to have you.

SPEAKER_04 24:52

Big fan. And Debbie.

SPEAKER_06 24:53

Well, yeah, the question that Travis normally asks the guest, I'm gonna ask Travis and Debbie. And we'll go with Debbie first.

SPEAKER_03 25:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 25:03

Is there something specifically about being outdoors, loving nature that keeps you coming back more and more, exploring more outdoors?

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 25:16

Even in our intimate moments, I've never asked her this question. Intimate.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

That's true. Yeah. No, I uh I think it's interesting. I grew up pretty outdoorsy. I was kind of the tomboy. We went camping a lot when I was young. So I enjoyed the tent camping and all that stuff when I was young. And then you go through that phase of rebellious, you know, yeah children age group. And I know that I had some years that I wasn't as important to me, but one of the things that I would say changed my view, and a lot of the things that I would look at is nature is actually when I got sober. So for me, it was like eye-opening, like recognizing the beauty in the sky, the birds, everything, everything that you can see, um, sunsets, sunrises, all all of those things. So I think that really it was just like an eye-opener for me when I when I got sober, is when I kind of recognized my love for nature and all the pretty things that are out there. Fuck yeah, Brent, you should get sober.

SPEAKER_05 26:18

You probably like your drama.

SPEAKER_06 26:22

Well, I did do your drive by January.

SPEAKER_05 26:24

You did take better pictures. Everything was beautiful. Yeah, there were 31 days there where your photos were just on point.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Now they're all slanted. I'm like, what's going on?

SPEAKER_05 26:36

Like, quit taking photos drunk, Brad. You idiot. That's great, dude. That's a that's nice. That's a that's probably one of the better answers. You get sober, start enjoying the outdoors a little bit more, and then you just I assume find kind of an affinity to it. They used to say, Hey, I'm going back out there.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

But I really like climbing on things. So like I like picking up rocks and climbing rocks, and just doing all the things in nature.

SPEAKER_06 27:02

So uh bouldering?

SPEAKER_01 27:05

I mean, I haven't done anything like that yet.

SPEAKER_08 27:07

What are you climbing on rocks? You're bouldering. What exactly is bouldering? Climbing on rocks, hopping around rocks, yeah, like manageable, like hook things in or anything. Yeah, like you don't have the average system. Okay, average person doing some bouldering. Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Hell yeah, you saw me climb a climb a hill. Yeah, I was laughing.

SPEAKER_06 27:28

If you if you can climb a rock, you're bouldering.

SPEAKER_05 27:31

Yeah, Ashley and I went out. I tell the story all the time when we went out to Seattle and did Mount Rainier, a little bit of that, but she was uh I can't remember how many months pregnant, and we were out there for a honeymoon because we did the honeymoon a year after our wedding. And I have a photo of her like flexing on top of this huge boulder in Mount Rainier National Park. So I mean, like, you guys are uh I mean, I get bouldering, bro.

SPEAKER_08 28:01

And I know you have a like a you get a genuine joy out of seeing animals and birds and all the crazy stuff out there because like when you're not hiding your emotions when you're out there, and I'm a very quiet person in the woods. No shit, Travis. Like, let's uh make sure nobody hears what we're doing around here. And David's just having the time of remote.

SPEAKER_05 28:26

Whoop and hollering. Nice, Travis. What about you? What keeps bringing you to the outdoors, Mr. Gestypotamus? What?

SPEAKER_08 28:38

I appreciate that. Honor of Gestapodamus. Yeah, you're welcome for that. Maybe. Once we figure out the definition, I might say it's amphibious for sure. Gestapodamus.

SPEAKER_05 28:51

I didn't think that far into it. It's just a nickname. Amphibious creature. What keeps bringing you to the outdoors? I'm excited to keep asking this question, so I'll ask it as many times as I need to because we finally we finally get the opportunity to ask Travy J, who's asked this question to all of our guests. We now have the opportunity to turn it back around on you, and I feel like this is uh quite the homage.

SPEAKER_08 29:21

Yeah, I think it is an evolving thing, and you sh we should ask each other that question every now and then. Uh, because I don't know. I think when I first when Brad first asked me to go on the Appalachian Trail Trip, which was my first long backpacking trip, it was just like I didn't really think about it. I just happened to have the gear, it wasn't about the challenge, it was just I'm gonna go walk in the woods with my homie for a week. Yeah. And then you learn a lot that first go. Well, every go-around you learn a lot. Um and then just started changing things, and then started real like learning myself why I like to be out there. And uh I think ultimately it's the peace. It's just like the complete disconnect and and I don't know, you only have one ultimate purpose, and that is to get from point A to point B in this amount of days. The only thing you have is what you have on you and what's around you. And I I don't know what I love about that, but I've always really enjoyed stories of explorers and you know, Indiana Jones type stuff and just you know, discovering new things that, you know Yeah, what's over the next hill.

SPEAKER_05 30:50

Yeah, and I think that that 3.5, 4, 4.5, 5, 5.5 miles is over that next hill.

SPEAKER_08 30:59

But I'm gonna try and make a like a long story short. Like I be I liked reading about Lewis and Clark and all that stuff, and then there's like a point now on the earth where it just seems like everything is has been discovered, and if you want to discover something new, you need to be a billionaire to be able to afford the equipment to go be somewhere nobody else has been before, and that doesn't interest me at all. And I think starting this podcast has really like made us focus in more locally, and there's so much more to discover that other people really aren't seeing or paying attention to. But if you're out there paying attention, you can see so much freaking cool shit that that nobody else has ever seen before. And like the rock hounding thing with Debbie and I just you you'll find something that is falling out of the riverbank and that has never been seen by human eyes before. And there's a possibility you could crack it open with a hammer and there's some badass crystals or some shit that took thousands to millions of years to to form.

SPEAKER_05 32:12

What does it take to get to like the point where you guys are at where like you find joy in and I'm I don't mean to say this derogatorily, but like what do you mean like or what does it take to get to the point of like finding a rock and then knowing enough to crack it open or being excited about seeing it?

SPEAKER_06 32:35

Yeah, just to say like, oh, this is a rock. Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean? Like me stopping right, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:42

Like there's a there's a you know, exactly right, Brad.

SPEAKER_06 32:46

You see rocks everywhere, yeah. You see rocks everywhere.

SPEAKER_05 32:50

Right, and that's a very unique thing to be excited about seeing or going to hunt for.

SPEAKER_08 32:56

Well, that's the thing, is uh the untrained eye just sees rocks, you know, landscaping, this, yeah, whatever. Especially if you're looking, you know, up for birds, sure as shit.

SPEAKER_03 33:10

Don't give a hell about the rock.

SPEAKER_08 33:12

Don't even see dogs, but I just stubbed my toe. But I get that because that was always like I look back at all the other backpacking trips that I've taken, and I'm like, damn, I wish I would have been a rock hound back then because I could have you know explored you know what was on the ground in those places. But it started, I think, with my mom. Like she's always had these little collections of cool rocks, and she had a Potoski stone that I always thought was cool as hell. And um later down the road Devi and I happened to go uh to a cottage up on the Fourth of July in Charlevoix, Michigan, and that's pretty close to Potoski, Michigan. And I wanted to and I think my goal was I want to find a Potoski sound. And then if I can find one for my mom and everybody else, that'd be freaking awesome. And we went out there and just freaking cleaned house. Cleaned house. You can take up to twenty pounds annually off of the beaches uh between Potaski and Charleville.

SPEAKER_05 34:23

Well what about you, Debbie? How many pounds do you take? Not that much. What about what about you, Debbie? Like what did w where where was like the like I understand you had Travis and i and and and that, but like w I mean I'm into birding and my wife doesn't give a rat's shit about it. Yeah, I want to know she's proud of me, but like what what happened like where was that connection for you where you're like, okay, now I'm now I'm gonna pay attention to these rocks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

It brought my like my very first rock that I came. Oh, we have show and remember. Um so this is funny. When I was growing up, we would go to um you'll know what that is. Did you have I seen that? Are you kidding me? It's not I didn't find it. Okay, so when I was young, I remember in fourth grade we went to the house.

SPEAKER_08 35:19

She's got rocks, she's hiding rocks from me. Are you shitting me?

SPEAKER_01 35:22

We would go to Chicago, we'd go to the field museum and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_08 35:26

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

And I remember I got that tiger's eye stone. And so, like, that was I've had that since fourth grade. It's moved with me so many times, like it's been in a little container. Like so I remember when I bought that at the the museum, and I was like, this is just so cool. And so ever since then, it's just I think it's an appreciation just for things that are pretty. Because Travis definitely has more of the scientific eye. Mine is like, if I like it, it's in her pocket. It's in my pocket. Like I like.

SPEAKER_04 36:01

But what but okay, keep going.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

So so that for me, like that's the part that I think draws me to like the experience of of looking for things. Right. And like so Travis can be really focused on some things, and I'm like when we get focused on looking for something specific, we're kind of just looking for that. But a lot of times I'm looking at like everything. Right. So it makes me stop and like actually like look for specific things because otherwise I am like a squirrel just chasing my own tail. Like look at look at the bird, look at the noise, look at the you know, like he said, the rocks literally being spit out of the earth on the side of a you know, bank of a lake. It's crazy just to see those things.

SPEAKER_05 36:46

Where Travis is a little bit more like, I'm out here rock outing, you're like, I'm just out here, and rocks are here. And I'm really excited about all of it.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

And I love it, and I love it every second. Like, and that's the thing is, yeah, because we have we get along well, we have different personalities, but he he still appreciates the me grabbing armfuls of geodes and and saying, take my picture, you know, holding these geodes like babies, and I'm like, Can I find it?

SPEAKER_07 37:17

He's like, Oh, what a yeah, so or is this gonna be a photo shoot the whole time?

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Yeah, so just stuff like that is no, it's fine. It is really fun.

SPEAKER_05 37:26

So, how do you I mean, we've mentioned your guys' personalities out there a couple times now, so I guess me and the listeners understand a little bit, but in your guys' perspective, when you're out there as two separate personalities, do you feel like your personalities kind of are enhanced? Do they get kind of quite a little bit or like how do your personal do you feel like your personalities come out in certain ways when you're out there rock hounding?

SPEAKER_08 37:52

I think we were, I think we work together. We're both very just squirrel-like. And if we find something that we were looking for and we get the eye for it, it just seems like we find it freaking everywhere. I think we're both very good rock hounds. Really? Well, Brad, keep that in your back of your brain, bro.

SPEAKER_06 38:16

Self-nominated journeyman. Well, we're not sure if we're journeymen yet.

SPEAKER_05 38:20

Jesus Christ, Brad. But just keep in the back of our minds for when we rate them later at the end of the episode.

SPEAKER_08 38:25

You just said they're self-nominated. We're not, I don't I wouldn't say we're great rock hounds because we're not educated enough to know exactly what we're looking at. Because we found a lot of shit. We're just like, what the hell is this? Like it's pretty school as hell. Take it and figure out what it what it is. And uh oftentimes we're very surprised and delighted that we kept whatever it was, but um yeah, I uh where were we going with that?

SPEAKER_06 38:55

Uh just we get we gather to when you're out camping like in the van or whatever, and you're together just around each other all day. Yeah, is there like uh you find a certain kind of rock that brings the mood up between everybody, or like is there certain things that if you're striking out, are you still like, oh, we're just at least we're still out here in the stream?

SPEAKER_08 39:20

Like, no, because that the trip that we took to Hoosier National Forest, I had this grand plan of follow following, you know, the valley down as deep as possible.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

I don't think you guys heard that whole story.

SPEAKER_08 39:35

The further down you get, like the more water erodes away the dirt and the more stuff you can find. And we our camping spot that we found, like on the edge of the national forest. And I was looking at the map and I was like, we're going this way, and whatever. And uh, we made a makeshift raincoat for Debbie because it was I know that it was raining.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

I wore a tarp as a raincoat. I looked like I belonged in the woods.

SPEAKER_08 40:04

Yeah, I fashioned my tent footprint with Travis was probably happy with my knots for it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 40:11

What kind of knots you chat?

SPEAKER_08 40:13

She kind of looked like a Jedi with a nice cool.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Yeah, I looked pretty badass.

SPEAKER_08 40:18

Oh, there's one where you look like smeagle, like bent over, like looking at it.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

It's because we went down there and we we were looking for you know geodes and things like that. Yeah, but we get down there and we experience like a cool turtle, like the box turtle.

SPEAKER_08 40:32

Yeah, we found a big box turtle in the middle of the stream.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

What was it?

SPEAKER_08 40:36

Uh frog.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Yeah, frog. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 40:39

Just the way the the landscape, the way the trees fall over the the little creek and how the bank, you know, falls in and stuff like that. It's just cool to explore that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_06 40:51

Yeah, like everything is down a stream. Yeah, like everything.

SPEAKER_08 40:54

If you just keep following that thing down, it'll get bigger and bigger and wider and wider, and it'll uh, you know, clear out the dirt more and expose the rocks underneath. And but that I don't it it was fun and it was rainy and gloomy, and the way back up wasn't great, but it was still cool. I'm glad we did it. We didn't find shit. Well, okay.

SPEAKER_05 41:19

Well, you're still excited. What does keep you guys kind of excited on those days where it's not you're not finding rocks, it's a gloomy day. It's whatever you guys are out there in the middle. But I mean, yeah, okay, you're still out there, but like what is it? Like, what what I mean? You're out there, but like I imagine that you're not getting at each other's throats, or maybe you are like the the chores of camping, there's always something to do.

SPEAKER_08 41:46

Debbie always wants like you can't, she won't sit down. I like to go chill.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

So I'm like, are we if we didn't find anything, where are we going so we can find something like chill.

SPEAKER_06 41:57

That's what I'm saying. Like the sun setting, like there's something we can be doing right now.

SPEAKER_08 42:01

Yeah, and I want to sit in a chair and chill and enjoy that sun setting.

SPEAKER_06 42:05

I want to go into my tent and watch friends. So if we was gonna say, if we were backpacking, it'd be like me and I'd finally have a sidekick. Yeah, you and Debbie.

SPEAKER_05 42:18

You guys would be 150 yards away from camp. Travis would be 50 yards away from camp, and I'd be in my tent watching friends. That would be a rotation, dude. Man, we are a magic, we are a quadruple it in heaven.

SPEAKER_08 42:33

I'm not uh complaining about your energy because I benefit from it greatly. Because she's always like, I'm cooking, I'm doing this. It's great to have them around.

SPEAKER_05 42:42

That's how I feel about you guys, dude. That's how I feel about you guys when you guys are all motivated to go to the.

SPEAKER_06 42:49

What? Like, when's it gonna do something to get you going? Never. Not until I get to season 15 of friends, dude.

SPEAKER_04 42:58

Or to the end of it, or whatever many episodes.

SPEAKER_08 43:01

Once it hits 5 p.m. Patrick, ow.

SPEAKER_04 43:05

Yeah, yeah. Dude, if that.

SPEAKER_06 43:08

I do I do have uh one question about rock hounding that I keep thinking about. Is now I know I've noticed when I'm walking through a woods, and I think me and Patrick just experienced this where we're looking for a certain kind of bird, and we said, like, oh, we're in we're in pine, uh like pine trees, so it's not gonna be here, it's gonna be there. Is it the same thing when rock hounding? Like, you know, well, this kind of uh like riverbed is this, and we're not gonna find this here, so well, I think like in you have to think geologically.

SPEAKER_08 43:45

Yeah. Like what have you known other people found in this region or whatever. There's definitely no rhyme or reason, I I don't think, between what's growing on the surface or what animals are on the surface. No.

SPEAKER_05 44:01

No, but like but like for instance, it's it's early spring, so I can go find ducks. Yeah I know that I can find as many ducks as I can to add to my life list, and then once that that kind of period ends, I can go inland to the forested or wooded areas or marshlands and find different birds. Warblers once warblers while songbirds while the mic after the migration comes through. So like is it like where if you guys are looking for a certain like have you gotten even to the point of being like we're looking for this like time period maybe? Or we're going to Pataski to look for Taskies.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

Yeah. Yeah. It's more specific, I think, for regions.

SPEAKER_05 44:48

Oh, okay. So you do go to regions though? You go. Like, is there a region where you're like psyched about going? Like, is there a region on your guys' map that's like Louise?

SPEAKER_02 44:59

I've got a southern Travis just impurity on Mike, dude.

SPEAKER_03 45:06

Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 45:08

Let's go.

SPEAKER_07 45:11

The whistle thing.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

Travis. Mike, I'll tell you what. I got a beard for you. I got a reason.

SPEAKER_04 45:20

Oh, god damn. Our dogs are going nuts, too.

SPEAKER_08 45:24

But southern Southern Indiana. I I would go down there any day to go look for stuff because it seems like there's just of such a huge variety of stuff. Like that's where the you'll find geodes down there, and you can find agate.

SPEAKER_05 45:40

But but outside of southern Indiana, like like I mean, come on, dude. I'm a fucking burger for one year, and I'm like, I want to go down like I'm going to Costa Rica. Exactly. Like, there's not like a place outside of Indiana where you're like, oh yeah, like as a couple, like Debbie, like, is there not a place that you're talking about? Come on, she just wants to do that. I want to go everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

I want to go everywhere. I would say West, and I would say probably like maybe Utah or um Sedona. Yeah, there's places like I know you want to find certain fossils and things, and like those are like Yeah, and you can you just have to like it when you're doing your research after you find something, you just start learning about other things.

SPEAKER_08 46:24

And I bought my mineral books and just looking through those, and you're like, oh shit, I want to find one of those. And then you do a little research and figure out where people find them.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

Yeah, like the UK, they've got massive like ammonites out there and stuff. Huge, huge.

SPEAKER_05 46:40

That's what I was hoping to hear. Like, where are these, like, where are the hots? Like Australian opals.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Yeah, there's all sorts of which one are you guys going after?

SPEAKER_05 46:49

Like, which what's on your guys' joint bucket list for rock hounting? Like, there's gotta be that thing establishment. Establish it right.

SPEAKER_08 46:59

Those like Agates and Glacier National Park.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

See, that's that's bucket list no matter what. And I'm like, if we can go to Glacier, there's gotta be like if you go to Glacier, you should go to Banff too, right?

SPEAKER_06 47:11

Like right across the Canadian border. Yeah, so that would be I think Banff might be like bigger, like more area that you can actually walk around.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

I I think I like the mixture of like going somewhere that's beautiful and awesome, but having the benefit of being able to look for rocks too. So, like the experience of glaciers more than even just looking for rocks. It's the whole I love national parks.

SPEAKER_06 47:39

I honestly think that's like that's the basis of why we do what we do. It's like we can go somewhere beautiful.

SPEAKER_07 47:48

We can watch friends and a only from three o'clock in the afternoon to the time I wake up.

SPEAKER_08 47:54

I mean, the burder thing kind of relates with rock hounding, because I don't like I think what I would ultimately want to do as a as a collector now is to just find a like one nice piece of every like mineral or whatever, which that's just would be absolutely insane. But at least the ones that I collect that are just like one impressive piece. Yeah, and that's and just like birding, like you want to get that good picture, not the list.

SPEAKER_06 48:27

The best about being uh a photographer and birder is you can do both.

SPEAKER_08 48:33

Like I don't think rock photography is too hot.

SPEAKER_03 48:36

But it's like but that's what I'm saying, like still rock. Click put some malads as a weapon.

SPEAKER_06 48:46

I just meant like we're lucky because we get both. Like you can either see it or get a good photo of it and you're happy either way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 48:55

But hounders can also take specimens and if something's true, we can steal photography.

SPEAKER_05 49:04

Uh so I wish. I kind of want to like once again, I I'm just impressed by the idea that you guys are doing in this in in this relationship wise. Uh you know, that that's just exciting to me. I feel like that's cool. So I just kind of want to won the lottery. I I know you do because we talk about it quite often, but I want to so I kind of want to lean into a little bit of that more than the rock counting for just a minute, okay? So I have a couple questions kind of pertaining to more about like you guys as individuals and as not spouses, which I was what I have written down the Dr.

SPEAKER_06 49:40

Drew's uh love line.

SPEAKER_05 49:42

No, I just I just do I think that it's interesting, and I think that there are people in this world that need something to do, and to be able to do it with somebody that they enjoy is a fantastic thing, right? I totally agree. Yeah, Brian. So, what does this kind of sharing time out and the quote unquote field mean to you guys? Like, how do you guys kind of relate? Like, does it mean anything? Do you guys think about it in terms of like we're not only spending time like Netflix and can chilling? I know that means sex, and I don't I I don't mean that, but like you're not just sitting in front of the TV eating, you know, carry out Chinese food watching a show, but you're going out, you're taking Debbie's awesome RV thing out to the middle of the woods, and you're going rock outing. So, like, in terms of like time spent together, like how do you guys do you consider this like wonderful time spent together, or is it more, yeah, Debbie, I want you to answer this.

SPEAKER_01 50:43

Like, yeah, I think it's bonding time because it's yeah, you're getting, I mean, it's not always easy where you're at or where you're hiking through, or like sometimes it's frustrating. I do things I know I shouldn't do, and maybe they can frustrate Travis sometimes. Like climbing up the side of cliffs to do things, but you know, it's it's just like working through it, like any relationship. And I think it's fun. You get to experience like the joy of a find. It's like you're you're searching for something, like you guys get that feeling when you find the bird you want to see, right? Like when you find somebody, you're like, Oh, look at this fossil.

SPEAKER_05 51:18

Me and my spouse Brad.

SPEAKER_01 51:20

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 51:21

Yeah, relationally.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

Um, but yeah, I mean, I think it is just the the joy of being able to experience something and find something, and it's an adventure. And I think my my favorite is to have adventures, and it it could be anything. I can make anything an adventure. So getting to experience that with Travis is awesome because we do like similar things, and you can't. I mean, I'm pretty much up for anything.

SPEAKER_05 51:47

So I oh Travis comments on it all the time how you're just like he's he's gotta be careful of what he asks you because you're always like, Yes, yes, yes. So he has to be diligent on the city.

SPEAKER_08 51:59

I'm not scared of anything, I will do anything. So I didn't mean put it on the calendar, I was just trying to see how warm the water was.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

He's like, You want to go jump off of a cliff? Yeah, where are we going? I mean, it is it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:15

What about you, Travis? Like, what does that kind of time spent outdoors mean to you in this kind of in this relationship?

SPEAKER_08 52:23

Um, I appreciate that we aren't uh a Netflix relationship. Like, we do get excited about silly things and love doing whatever. And uh I don't know. I don't know if it's just obviously it's our personalities and how we just I don't know, enjoy the world around us. And uh it's definitely like when I I would not I don't I wouldn't like rock hounding as much if I was doing it by myself. I wouldn't like anything as much as if I was doing it by except my artwork. Like get the fuck out of my studio.

SPEAKER_06 53:06

I w that I was actually gonna ask a question like that. Yeah, and you kind of just answered it.

SPEAKER_08 53:13

But uh no, I I appreciate that we can share that and both find like just an insane amount of joy. And it's and the joy carries over even more because especially like when we get home, we get to clean everything and look through it and see how like if it's a night something cool, how we could cut it and polish it and make it look cool, or if it's a geode, we get to break them open and see what's inside, and it's just it just offers never-ending fun, and then we take them to people and show them and Debbie.

SPEAKER_05 53:51

I I just have to ask this you legit give a fuck about all this?

SPEAKER_00 53:56

Like this is a thing like me, like because I hear Travis saying all this stuff. I asked her the same thing sometimes. Yeah, I know, I know you give a fuck about Travis.

SPEAKER_01 54:08

You're saying all this, and Debbie's like, yeah, no, it's funny because I even I found I pulled out some of my old stuff and I found a couple like rocks. I actually have them with me and a bird book, and I took a picture. I was like, I've liked these even before you, Travis. So like so I'm like, I have rocks that I have found pre-Travis rocky, and like, yeah. So I mean, I had a bird growing up, so I like anything to do with animals, nature. Like one of my favorite episodes that you guys did was your favorite animals. Like, that was seriously one of my favorites, dude.

SPEAKER_05 54:40

I'm so excited about that because that was such a fucking one-off, and we fucking crushed it, bro.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

So yeah, nature, animals, all of those things. Um, even if it is something like a rock, yeah. I get excited. I think it's finding something you have no idea what is, and then trying to figure out what it is. And Travis is definitely the one that's more like, oh, I wonder what this is, and can you see that color? And you know, he like gets into detail, and mine I'm just like, oh, look how pretty like this rock is purple, or you know, the cool striping, or like trying to figure out how it's formed, and and like even just it blows your mind to think that you're the first person to see this or touch this, or like how old it is.

SPEAKER_05 55:21

It's hard to comprehend that. You can't like I hear you guys say that this is the like this rock is falling out of this what riverbed, and this is the first time a human's laid eye on uh eyes on this, but like even that like that easy statement to make is an exceptionally hard concept to grasp.

SPEAKER_08 55:42

Oh yeah, there's no I mean the things that I've found, like little f actual fossils of ancient animals. Yeah some somebody could have made it out of clay a week ago and I would have been like, oh my god, this is amazing. But yeah, I mean because the it's just so I don't know, it's hard to attach. I try to attach like a a meaning to this little rock from you know millennia millions of years ago, hundreds of millions of years ago. And it's hard, but I still find it very fascinating and I like collecting all the little you know things you can find. And uh it's I don't know, I don't know what it I look at it as like n sculptures. I wanna I I love aesthetic, I guess rocks and well I guess we all do. That's why we love diamonds and shit. But oh so I have more questions for the thing. I just wanna I wanna just find beautiful things and before we get into that though.

SPEAKER_05 56:52

I wanna I wanna stick with your guys' relationship and how you're doing this. I want to stick with this theme before we get into more of this because Dr. Fail. Yeah, well, you know, I don't want to do that. Dr. Patty. Dr.

SPEAKER_03 57:03

Patty.

SPEAKER_05 57:04

But I but I do find this to be interesting. I mean, all the people that we've talked to in this outside of Matt Herbert, it's not been me and my spouse are into conservation or me and my, you know, so this is an anomaly. Like what you guys are are an anomaly outside of Matt Herbert, right?

SPEAKER_04 57:22

She's the one that attracted me to the Maumee River.

SPEAKER_06 57:25

You think you don't think this is an anomaly? I think there's uh I think I've been learning more and more about how couples enjoy getting outdoors together and doing their own adventures. How many times do you learn about couples rock hounding together? It's pretty new.

SPEAKER_03 57:44

Pretty new.

SPEAKER_06 57:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 57:50

I just want to highlight a little bit of how precious I think this is.

SPEAKER_08 57:54

How many other rock hounting couples do you know?

SPEAKER_04 57:59

This is it.

SPEAKER_06 58:01

But I do I do just I can 100% appreciate it though.

SPEAKER_05 58:05

I definitely want to get into more of the rock hounting aspect. I just want to I I just want to take it for square one before we get into all of it.

SPEAKER_06 58:11

I think we rock hound for different things. We're like, we have a couple of rock counters. We're gonna find out who's the baby soon.

SPEAKER_08 58:19

I think one we just we enjoy being with each other in the middle of nowhere, which is good. Yeah, that's she likes the visual stuff. I like the more science-y stuff, so I get a double because she's always bringing back shit I never would have thought.

SPEAKER_05 58:34

Yeah, because you're that's not it. No, that's not it, but let me get let me ask this, okay? So, what's something you guys have learned about each other because of long days digging, hiking, and striking out? Or striking in.

SPEAKER_06 58:51

Striking out, oh, and or striking in.

SPEAKER_05 58:54

Like, what are those what are those relationship values you guys have taken because of rock hounding? You know what I mean? Like, I want to know that.

SPEAKER_01 59:03

It's something that I thought I thought it was mostly me. Like, I don't necessarily like take the best care of myself, like remembering to drink water and like remembering to put sunscreen on and things like that. But I realize that we are both as neglectful as each other when we're out there doing this. We both don't stop. So like we'll get so like focused in on stuff.

SPEAKER_06 59:29

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

And I was there, and I was burned up too. So like we don't even like when you're in the midst of it, like I think the um the I think it's the attention to details.

SPEAKER_08 59:39

Like we close, like at that point.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

Yeah, and so like that's something that I learned about him is that we're a lot alike when it comes to that.

SPEAKER_08 59:49

From two miles away, and I'm like a dolphin.

SPEAKER_02 59:55

It's a dolphin call. What's that dolphin in Indiana? Oh, that's my that's my girlfriend.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:07

What's crazy is when a dolphin comes swimming up the river and they're like, oh fuck, that's a dolphin!

SPEAKER_02 1:00:14

Debbie's over there.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:18

Sorry, that was just my ADHD flying in.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:21

But I think that's what it is, is we both get really like just super focused in on stuff. And I didn't realize how much alike we were in that until we went out and did that together. And then I was like, wow, we both are completely just focused, and we don't even remember to drink water, and so like it's those those kind of things that I realize. Oh wow, we're a lot alike when it comes to that.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:45

Yeah, that makes sense, dude. Yeah, once you get laser focused, it's it like flow state, like Travis said. It is you don't you don't think it like even when you're in the backpacking trail, it's easy to get like like you have to kind of reiterate to yourself, like, okay, take a drink of water or have a snack, like grab this thing out of your waist pocket. Let's let's go. You gotta you gotta fuel up because you're not hungry, yeah, and you're not thirsty most of the time.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:15

In basic training, that that is such a huge emphasis. Really? Drinking water, like they will they'll have you empty your canteen to make sure everybody's hydrated.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:28

Oh, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:29

Yeah, and it they drill you, drill it into your brain. You don't a soldier that falls out of for dehydration is a liability, and you know right, you gotta make sure everybody's spicking spang.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:42

Travis out there on the river, like bottoms up. Like you see those canteens. God damn it!

SPEAKER_03 1:01:50

Do you drink that yeti bottle yet or not?

SPEAKER_06 1:01:52

There's like it pours out of the ground.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:54

He's like, Are you fucking kidding me?

SPEAKER_08 1:01:58

I do get honor about water though. Good. You should. You guys both should, dude.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:04

Especially when you're whale tails out there, dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:07

Every level of red you get on your whale tail sunburn is a different level of dehydration.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:13

That's what I'm screaming. The more hydrated you are, the less whale tail you're gonna get.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:19

That's right, dude. Hey, so you guys have been rock hounding for about like a year, year and a half or so, like uh respectively. Yeah, as far as I understand.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:30

Fourth of July last year.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:31

Fourth of July last year. Has anything kind of switched up in your routine? Has anything have you kind of like evolved your rock hounding techniques over the past year?

SPEAKER_08 1:02:41

Like being a beginner destination plans change to revolve around if we can find cool rocks there. Destination? That's that's what's mostly changed? No, definitely just like if we're planning something. Yeah, yeah, if we're planning something. But equipment wise, yeah. Like I didn't um this Christmas you bought me a freaking sweet ass S swing rock pick. S-wing, dude.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:11

That's my hat.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:12

With the leather handles. Let's go. You're gonna say you got a wet saw attached to the back of the RV van. We took that part of our shoulder out. Oh bro.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:28

She loves me. She loves me, bro. She builds a fence on the back of her army.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:34

So we can cut our rocks in half in the middle of the camera.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:42

They're like, it's not a cloud. We found a good spot.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:52

Oh man, outside of that, you guys really haven't like improved your approach anymore. You haven't like said, okay, this is where we started.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:02

Uh I think the improving approach is just gaining an eye for the what you're looking for. Dude, getting an eye. Experience is big. Yeah. And then Yeah, that I mean, I I definitely understand that. Yeah. Uh yeah, and it does seem like once you find one, like you it's just boom. You can find all sorts of shit.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:26

That's what I was thinking, like uh when Patty was asking earlier. Do you is there a certain kind of thing you look for in an area where you start finding more and more and more?

SPEAKER_08 1:04:36

I think for me, it's just when we w go to a new place, I just don't really know. We're just looking at the ground kind of until we find that first thing. When we went down to southern Indiana and we went to the d the boat dock and we were finding like we found our first teeny tiny little geode.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:55

And we're like, look at it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:57

They're here. And it was it was so small, and I was so jealous because I remember being like, I hope I can find one.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:04

And he like found the first couple and they were little, and then like the next one. And we could have we could have found thousands.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:13

And then the next like 10 minutes later, like you're just like, holy cow! Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:18

You remember when we had Ben to Dr. Ben Dotillo on last week a long time ago?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:25

That was not last week ago, I believe.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:28

Two weeks ago. And he said, if you're a rock hound and you start out like in Michigan or center in Indiana, you're basically blowing your load right off the bat because it's so easy to find stuff. Yeah, but it is so much fun. And when we went to uh Mary Gray Bird Sanctuary, Debbie and I did a little rock hounding off trail, and we found some really cool stuff. And we found a big geode.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:51

Yeah, we did. Wow. And church. Like you learn about all these different things, yeah, and a cool school, and like there's all sorts of treasures. I think that's the cool. Thing is, no matter where you go, you can find something. Are you looking at my rock on my shoulder?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:05

Okay, that's the rock.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:08

It's not a bug, it's just a my little rock bird.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:10

Okay, I like it. I did what uh last week was me love you midwesty, in case you forgot.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:18

No, I I I it is I guess if I'm I'm drawing another correlation, but is there uh is there a reason why when I ask you, do you have prominent destinations in which you'd like to go rock hounting that you haven't gotten further than southern Indiana? And is there a reason why well, I mean we just started 4th of July. Also, Dr. Benjamin Dotillo is saying that if you start in this area, you've essentially blown your load. And we've done both the other those areas. I mean, we don't have to do that. So you don't know why you're like, I don't give a shit about anywhere else. No. This is I'm perfectly kosher right here.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:58

Well, we mentioned going to like Glacier National Park. Yeah, I know. There's a lot of stuff out west for like the petrified forest. Uh there's opals out west, sapphire. We want to find some gemstones, and then there's all sorts of shit international. Australia's known for like the best opals. I think it's oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:21

The planning part is we just have to plan it. And you know what? Neither of us are is the biggest planner.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:28

Yeah, yeah. We're kind of uh you need Brad Nine your life. Travis isn't a planner, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:34

Wait, are you kidding me? What Travis isn't a planner? And I'm the one that's like, oh, let's go to Arizona next weekend. You know what I mean? So I'm the last minute make it happen.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:47

What you both need is to be like, here's what we want to do, and then lay it on Brad Knight, and Brad and I'll have you an itinerary in like a week. Lay it on Patty. I will have an itinerary. I'll have your itinerary.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:01

Brad will have it booked.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:04

That's where we come in. Is I'll have all the I'll have exactly what it should look like. Brad will be like booked today.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:11

But that's why, but that's why we work well because we don't we're not itinerary people. We're go with the flow people. Let's what do we want to do today?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:20

Well, yeah, but you gotta get to a spot to go with the flow. Well, that's all you gotta do. Just get there.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:26

Yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:27

So we just gotta we have to find more places that we want to go explore. And now that the you know, the snow's melted.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:35

And we have some rocks that are within view again, we can get out there. I saw some shows.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:40

I will say, on the mommy, driving across the bridge.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:45

Just saying. What'd you say? The snow's been melted for like two weeks now. Yeah, you guys are.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:50

Yeah, but it's been like I got I got 44 species this year alone. What's going on?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:56

Are you shitting me?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:57

44 birds this year alone. Tony.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:00

That's good.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:01

What do you got, Brad? Well, Brad doesn't Brad's way above 199.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:06

Oh, yeah, exactly, dude. Because he didn't restart his career. Right, yeah. I did get two new lifers. Lifers! Lifers!

SPEAKER_05 1:09:17

He did. Uh, okay, but I I I I let's just keep this back. I I want to take this a little bit away from the emotional side. Let's start getting into the rock counting side, okay? We're dearing. We've been recording for a minute now. You got a giant ass shell in your hand. I don't mean to be once again derogatory if this is how it comes out, but it seems like rock counting is really slowing down the pace of life, right? Like if you're out, if you're out staring at the ground, you're taking inch by inch, looking at rock by rock, you're really slowing down what we here in the 21st century consider life.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:56

That's that's the intention of going out.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:59

Right, sure. But what I'm curious about, since you admit to it, do you feel attacked? I didn't know why I'm not I'm not attacking you by any means.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:09

Are you saying rock hounds are the farmers?

SPEAKER_05 1:10:13

No, no, I mean that you're you I think it does take a level of okay. Like I I think backpacking does too. I think it it just like you're away from the tech, you're out there doing it, you're on a riverbed, you're staring into the mud, staring in the dirt. There is a moment where mask-off moment for Patty.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:33

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to be positive.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:38

But what well, I guess if you don't even agree with them, this question doesn't even agree again, dickhead. But what has it taught you? Like, is there a lesson in life that that's staring at the ground and taking inch by inch, walking riverbed to riverbed, slowing life down to that approximation? Like, has is there a lesson to be learned in all of this outside of finding a gem or a mineral that you're looking for in southern Indiana? Is there a greater lesson that you've potentially taken for this?

SPEAKER_08 1:11:16

Like, I don't know about uh if it's a greater lesson, but just just learning about what the rocks are made of, like down to their basic elements, and then learning about the history of the earth and the timeline of the earth and just kind of how like we weren't the first rulers of this planet, and just that kind of there's an insignificance of when you're just I don't know. You lose your ego when you're out there. Let me give you a bit of a context.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:52

Okay, Debbie, you ready for this?

SPEAKER_08 1:11:54

Am I not giving the pet Patrick the answer he wants? No, no, it doesn't sound like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:00

You're doing wonderful. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:02

If that wasn't it, I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:04

We've we've all been on the trail, and there is a difference of us, like there's a there's something you have to learn about life, about existence when you're backpacking for X amount of days, right? Like you have to be okay with quiet. You have to be okay with just spending your day walking without a screen in front of you, something along those lines. So to me, there's like there's an existential thing that you end up getting from backpacking from hang from hiking. So I'm wondering like where where I'm asking where where this question's coming from is like when you're staring at the ground, when you're looking at millennia in front of you in in the form of a rock, yeah, and it's inch by inch by inch down the side of a mountain or or a hill or on the riverside, is there something that existentially you're taking away from that? Yeah, this experience of slowing down life to a pace that you're looking inch by inch to the ground at a rock, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:23

I think it's just being present like in the moment and taking that time to shut down everything else that's in your mind. Like you're not thinking about work, you're not like you're not thinking about any of that stuff. You're just able to check out and do something that you can just be fully present in.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:41

And and then just enjoying that time, like feeling the sun on your skin.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:47

Like it's like a whole senses thing, no weight on your shoulders, just one purpose, and that's to find a cool little rock.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:56

It's hard to do though. Yeah, it's hard to do, especially in this day and age, and just to cut out like a luxury.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:03

Uh this day and age, like I would say, but you go back a couple thousand years and I mean you would find humans on the river banks looking through the rocks, trying to find a nice one that they can that's the proper, you know, made out of the you know what they're looking for, flint or whatever to chip away to make whatever a tool. I feel like there there's nothing I'd rather be doing. I think I think it just kind of like there's nothing rather be doing.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:38

I mean, if I like get like where would I rather be in this world at this moment if you can put me on a stream, like in the middle of a wilderness, birds chirping, everything around me, and I'm just like looking through rocks in a stream.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:54

Fuck yeah. Like that's just slowing down.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:56

That's good looking for good rocks for the hunt next week. You made that sound sexy, Brad. But I think that goes back to our more basic human natures of of gathering and and when you're out and that you know, the reason we go hiking is is because of that disconnection with civilization. I mean, it's the same it's the same damn thing. It's yeah, I mean when we're hiking, you get hyper focused on shit. You'll get hyper focused on just making your legs move.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:30

Dude, if I look a thousand yards in front of me, I get hyper focused on that thing a thousand yards ahead of me. And I'm like, dude, if I make it to that, I'm winning.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:40

Yeah, because I'm I got I'm sure even with if you're looking at a riverbed at all the different rocks, like you could completely miss something totally obvious because you're not looking for that thing. You're looking at all the individual rocks in the riverbed. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:57

I don't see much of a difference between taking your time in a small area and appreciating those little things, uh, you know, against freaking doing a a whole week backpacking trip just plowing through the forest, not not looking really taking the time to look at anything. Right. You're still disconnected and focused and you're in that mode, and I appreciate both things. Sure. Um, but yeah, they're kind of the same same kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:30

Something that's really cool too is that you don't realize sometimes, like when you say, Oh, just rocks, right? Like a lot of people just see these gray rocks on the ground. They're like, oh rocks, right? Yeah. But like when you get it when you when you get it wet, when you put water on the rock, like how it can change. Like the way that it looks, the colors that appear, like the lines that you didn't see before. Yeah, and so like you don't even realize, oh, all these gray rocks, once they're in water, like it's a totally different spray bottle's a tool that I never would have guessed a rock on. Exactly why. And like a lot of people, you can you know, you can see a tosky, right? And you can see it when you know what you're looking for, but until you know, you have to spray it to find it, because you don't really know what it looks like without seeing the pattern of it. And so like getting to learn what they look like in that condition just changes everything too.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:26

So it's and you see that especially Tosky stands, because they're just like they're hexagonal, the patterns, so it's just honeycomb. And then like that's such an easily recognizable pattern, and then you just start spraying shit, and you see it everywhere. Damn. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:47

Right.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:48

But I also like I think my psychosis of finding uh green rocks uh gets in the way because oftentimes I'm just like this I think this one's green, Debbie. This is a green rock, it could be turquoise. And then she's like, No, it's gray.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:04

And do you think do you think maybe we can come up with a good way to take photos? Some of the rocks and like do you think there's any good way to catch that reflective light?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:18

Yes, like in a I mean, I could like hold it, like squatting in my Nikes in front of my truck.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:24

Yeah, I think that's good.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:26

Bang in my Nike.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:28

We did make a calendar.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:29

Look at the smoky board. Just chatting sexy calendar with just minerals, sexy millions. Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:39

It's just minerals for a whole year. I have a big G ed that just covers my crap.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:46

Jeez Louise, how on earth did the rock hounding episode with Debbie become a nasty, nasty, perverted episode? I tell you what, I hope you yell at yourself and Brad next week. What I did because you yelled at me for being nasty. If there's anybody that can make Giovanni sexy, it's Debbie and I. Yeah, you gave me a demerit.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:06

And then I took it away because you redeemed yourself.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:10

Thank you. I don't remember that. So we're getting near to the end of the time. I wish this conversation could keep going. I have found absolutely nothing but affinity and joy in this conversation, but I do know that we're nearing the end. I have a little bit of a five question, would you rather? I'm not sure if you guys end, but it is. It is quick. It's do I get the play? No, Brad, you're out. Oh, come on. It's for our guest. Brad, okay, I'll tell you what.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:40

You can answer because Travis just argued.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:43

But this is quick shot five, and we're done. Okay? Okay. I think it's fun. This is gonna be interesting, okay? Are you ready? Are you ready? All right. Would you rather find one museum quality geode or a backpack full of agates?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:02

Aggots?

SPEAKER_05 1:20:03

Aggots, sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:18

For Christ's sake.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:28

I think I'll take the agate. I think I'll take the agates.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:31

Backpack full of agates. All right. We gotta learn that next time we get a magic.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:44

Would you rather find one quality Gino or a backpack full of agates? No, she didn't.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:54

Oh. Agates. Come on, this is Gode.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:58

G node? She'll get the agate. Agates. All right. We got two V1 Agates. Would you rather rock hound a brand new undiscovered location once or return to your favorite honey hole forever?

SPEAKER_08 1:21:17

Honey hole. New discovery. Whoa, okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:20

We're already seeing the separation, Brad. New discovery for sure. Alright.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:25

Would you rather find a rare anything?

SPEAKER_04 1:21:28

Who cares?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:29

Oh man.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:30

But now I know I won't find it.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:32

Oh my dude. But I'm gonna go back and check.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:35

Okay, that's hard to start fight here. Here we go. Number three. Would you rather find a rare fossil or a rare mineral crystal?

unknown 1:21:44

Crystal.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:45

I'm gonna go crystal.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:47

Fossil. Wow, Brad, you're totally not a rock hound, you idiot. Okay, number four. Would you rather spend a day digging in the blazing desert sun or chipping away in freezing mountain weather?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:02

Um, I think sun. My hands don't work in the cold. That's the silly.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:06

Whale tail be damned. She is back to the sun. I'll take a whale tail. Whale tail dressing? What about you?

SPEAKER_06 1:22:13

I'm gonna go winter.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:15

Oh winter.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:16

Brad is just not into it right now. Maybe question everything. Here we go. Cold rocks. Here we go. Wet cold rocks. Would you rather find a perfect arrowhead or a perfect quartz crystal?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:32

I think I would like an arrowhead.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:36

Arrowhead. Arrowhead.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:38

Times a dozen. Wow, too many.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:41

Okay, dude. That's all I have.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:42

That's five would you rather questions? That was fun as fuck. Since we're nearing our end of our time, I do have one last question, but I I just Brad's question. No, this is my question. I just like to end this with nope, nope, nope. Because I did not not that, not that we're not we're not nearing the end so far. But why you want to ask the question about whether or not you picked up shit?

SPEAKER_08 1:23:05

I didn't uh I didn't read what Brad's question was. I heard you guys talking about it, so I didn't know if you would ask it.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:10

No, well, Brad actually removed that from my list of questions. Was it profane? It was whether or not how many how often have you picked up a handful of shit?

SPEAKER_06 1:23:22

No, that's not what my question was.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:24

Bullshit, that was what it was.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:27

I know there's always is it petrified shit?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:30

Yeah, maybe once.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:31

Possibly. Maybe I know that's definitely a thing, is you think it's something special and unique, but it's uh actually a turd.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:42

Yeah. Oh, just a hard turd? Yeah, yeah, it can happen.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:45

Oh boy, that's not how I read that.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:47

Like Joe Dirt.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:50

It was Joe Dirty shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:53

Joe Dirte.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:54

Joe Dierte. I'm sorry, that's not how I read that. But you did delete that question from my list of questions. Well, because I thought there was a lot of questions.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:04

What is your last question?

SPEAKER_05 1:24:05

And we didn't even get no the the the question I always want to end with because I I I just think you guys have a a unique view at what you're doing, and most all of our guests most certainly have a unique view of what they're doing. So I always just want to leave the kind of end part of this for you guys to talk to our listeners all over the world and kind of impart some sort of wisdom or some sort of an understanding as to what you guys do, whatever it might be. I just want to leave these last few minutes for you guys to talk to our listeners and and just say what you need to say. That's that that's where I want to end it.

SPEAKER_08 1:24:41

Um, I don't know, it's always just I'm driven by I think curiosity. I'm driven by uh just that connection to nature. I like to know about nature, learn about it. Um there's just because I I grew up where my grandpa and my dad and all the older gentlemen knew like all the birds and all the trees and all the plants, and I would like to keep that kind of knowledge alive. I want to make sure that I'm always out there and experienced and always learning something new about it. What about you, Deborah?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:26

I think just getting out there. We say that I hear you guys say it all the time. Get out there. You don't know what you enjoy until you experience it. So go try different things. And I think you will find birding, you'll find hiking, you can find anything. It's just get out in nature, see what speaks to you. If it is rocks, it's rocks. But really, until you just get out there, you don't know what you're looking for or what kind of joy it can bring you. Um I think that that's the biggest thing, and I mean, nature's everywhere. You can't escape it. State parks, local parks, hikes, anywhere.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:06

So I love it. Fucking A. Very well said. Better said, Debbie said it better than Travis. I just want to put that in a remark. Yeah. But as we as we say that, we're on our way out. She is far more elegant than I. Elegant? Indeed. Thank you guys very much for listening. Thank you guys very much for coming on the episode. Travis, you've been here all this time. Debbie, I'm unbelievably excited to have you down in the studio. You are a goddamn treasure and a joy to have around. Absolutely no doubt. But if you guys want to give us a like, if you guys want to give us a listen, check us out at Busted Pretty Blue Sky. Give us a follow. Busted Knees and Pretty Trees on Instagram and give us a follow wherever you find your podcasts.

SPEAKER_08 1:26:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:54

Okay. You guys ready to get the fuck out of here?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:56

Yes, sir. Let's get it.

SPEAKER_08 1:26:58

Thanks for listening, everybody. Keep on sounding. Bye.