Beyond The Brush with Joanne Hay Decorating

In this episode, Jo shares her journey in the decorating industry, discussing her background, emphasising the importance of social media in building her business, and the challenges she faces as a self-employed decorator. She shares the importance of balancing work and personal life, building trust with clients, and the creative freedom that comes with bold decorating choices. Jo also reflects on the significance of transparency in her work and the evolving nature of decorating techniques, while providing insights into managing time and workload effectively. Overall, the discussion provides insights into the realities of being a self-employed decorator and the skills required to succeed in the trade.

Key Takeaways

• Jo has been a self-employed decorator for 19 years.
• Building trust with clients is essential for long-term relationships.
• Jo believes in sharing knowledge to help others in the trade.
• Transparency in her work helps clients understand the process.
• Jo emphasizes the importance of work-life balance.
• Managing time effectively is key to avoiding burnout.
• The decorating trade is evolving with new techniques and products.

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Instagram: @Joannehay_decorating

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Chapters:

00:00 Introduction to Joanne Hay and Her Journey

02:43 The Impact of social media on Decorating

05:59 Balancing Work and Personal Life

08:54 Favourite and Challenging Jobs in Decorating

11:39 Customer Relationships and Quoting Process

14:36 Preferred Products and the Importance of Quality

17:45 The Joy of Decorating and Personal Preferences

27:25 Navigating the Evolving World of Paints

32:19 The Challenges of Choosing the Right Products

38:09 The Importance of Available Sundries

40:42 Building Trust with Clients

46:29 The Art of Transparency in Decorating

50:36 Social media and Community in the Trade

Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:10)

I'm Jo and I'm a decorator from Newcastle.

Speaker 1 (00:13)

Jo tell us a bit about yourself. Obviously you say you're from Newcastle. How did you start as a decorator? What's your background?

Speaker 2 (00:29)

My dad's a decorator as well by trade. So it's kind of the trade I knew most about. And I knew I always wanted to go into some kind of trade, but I just wasn't sure what. And with knowing most about decorating, I thought, why not? Why not give it a go? ⁓ So that's kind of where it all came from. And then I thought, right, I want something that I want to be able to fall back on should anything go wrong. I didn't know what I wanted to do growing up.

So I kind of just stuck at it and then when I got my like my NVQ, stuff like that, there was no women that I knew of as decorators. And I thought, there's a bit of a gap here. So why not just kind of go at it, see what happens. And here we are.

Speaker 1 (01:18)

Awesome. And how long ago was that that you started?

Speaker 2 (01:22)

Um, it's about 19 years now.

Speaker 1 (01:27)

Wow. That's awesome. Yeah. Have you always been self-employed then or how did you?

Speaker 2 (01:35)

Yeah, I've been self-employed. I've went out with my dad on placement and stuff like that. Yeah. And some experience, from that, I've always been self-employed. I've never worked for anybody else. Wow. So, and I think since doing that, the thought of working for somebody else makes us feel sick.

Speaker 1 (01:53)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I feel the same. I I've dipped in and out of self-employment and yeah, after my last stint working for someone else, never again, never again.

Speaker 2 (02:10)

It's just trying to work on that, how somebody else works, which is, you know, everybody works in their own ways. When you've done it for so long and got your routine, your wave, everything, it's like, like me and my dad can't work together. We're just class. So I think like there's been times in the past where we've done like a little job together or something. Like if I've had a couple of days cancel and vice versa, but he naturally goes to the thing of like trying to tell me what to do. I'm like,

Speaker 1 (02:24)

no way.

Speaker 2 (02:38)

Nah.

Speaker 1 (02:41)

⁓ bless. 2022. So you were shortlisted for Decorator of the Year for On the Tools. ⁓ How did that come about?

Speaker 2 (02:52)

I think

it was just like this stuff on social media and you know, on the tools are huge on social media and they find some amazing trades people. So they kind of got in touch and they've said like, you know, put yourself forward, you can ask people to vote for you and all that kind of thing. So yeah, I shortlisted and went down to the awards ceremony, which was great. Met some people that I followed for a while, but never like met them in person. So it was nice.

Yeah, that's kind of where all that came from, just the social media side really.

Speaker 1 (03:27)

So obviously social media, ⁓ massive, massive following. Obviously given the time that you've been doing self-employment as a decorator, been able to build that up. Facebook, for instance, you've got over 90,000 followers and TikTok, which is obviously a fairly new social media for everyone, I believe. Over 200,000 followers. It's incredible that the...

content that you're putting out is getting such attention. Obviously the content's fantastic. I've obviously seen multitudes of your videos and clips and used some of the tips myself. yeah, bang on, mate. ⁓ How do you keep on top of it?

Speaker 2 (04:12)

I've got to like set myself certain times when to be on it, when to do certain things. I have so many like drafts of videos saved, but it's having the time to just put so much out at a time. Like don't get us wrong, it's amazing. Like some of the feedback and like comments and stuff you get, but it all comes, you know, it's got its pros and cons. So you have to, I still have to

take myself away from it. And you're like, I don't have the biggest of following compared to many people. I kind of stay on top of it, but sometimes I've just got to switch off. And just kind of line it, like do its own thing. So it's difficult, but it is fun at the same time.

Speaker 1 (04:53)

Yeah, totally.

Yeah, I know you've commented on, how do I even put it? The rough comments that just, you know, some silly people just, you know, that they're just looking, they're in a bad mood or they're just looking for a bit of a dig. But you come at it with, with, with humor and it's brilliant. And I guess it's a good way of coping with it. As otherwise it'll obviously get you down.

Speaker 2 (05:26)

Yeah, I'm fortunate. I'm a very sarcastic person than anything. It takes a lot to offend or upset me, if I'm honest. People, these complete strangers on the internet would never win. But the reason why I keep putting it out there and respond the way I do is not just for myself and people watching, but

Speaker 1 (05:36)

That's wicked.

Speaker 2 (05:53)

so many other decorators and it doesn't matter if you've got the experience or if you're new especially if you're new coming into a trade and thinking I'll use social media as a marketing you know to advertise once you put yourself out there that's it and there's a lot of people that can't deal with that and also looking at it like why does my work not look like that how come theirs is always looking perfect and that's not how social media is so I try and be as normal and as real as I can because social media is just, it's what you make it kind of thing. 

Speaker 1 (06:30)

Absolutely,

yeah. The fact that you come at it from just a sarcastic way that obviously is yourself, that's your humor. really, it touches people in the way that they think this is brilliant. Like, brush it off, don't let it get you down, just keep going and be you at the end of the day. You can't be anybody else.

Speaker 2 (06:53)

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (06:56)

your work schedule. Tell us a bit about that. You post sometimes that you're booked up for like the whole year and how do you manage your work schedule and your home life?

Speaker 2 (07:09)

get as wrong as to take this a long time and I mean only the last few weeks again I burnt myself out and it happens every so often it happens to everybody. I used to kind of let my diary go and as far as I would be booked up I would just let it go but it gets to a point now it gets silly and people would cancel so that's when I started introducing like the deposit side of things but what I do now I just after so long I just shut everything off if as long as I'm booked up, say like six, eight months in advance. I'm happy with that.

Speaker 1 (07:44)

yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:46)

 It gives me plenty time if somebody was to cancel then there's always somebody I can slot in.

Speaker 1 (07:52)

Nice.

Speaker 2 (07:53)

I won't work weekends unless I have to.

Speaker 1 (07:56)

Yeah, I'm with you on that one.

Speaker 2 (07:58)

Unless the job was to run over, which is fair enough, ⁓ I'm more than happy to get it finished, but I wouldn't book anything in. Because that's like, both me and my wife have really busy lives, busy jobs. it's spending that time together or sometimes I do even have to pick stuff up on a weekend for next week. So it's just a little bit of time. It's important. But even if I get like

Speaker 1 (08:06)

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:25)

jobs cancelled or a couple of days cancelled, I'll just keep them off. I'm not squeezing anything in to keep somebody happy when I could do with that day or two.

Speaker 1 (08:35)

Just gives you that energy to recharge, doesn't it, yeah. Definitely. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (08:37)

But I think I'm just so, I'm so used to being so busy and on the go. So when I do get a couple of days of just nothing, I'm like, what can I do? I'm not one that can't sit around, I can't sit in the house, it's just not me.

Speaker 1 (08:49)

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm the same. It's like you almost feel guilty for stopping, don't you? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:58)

So I'm always like this, this is not right, this is not right, there's something I should be doing that I can't remember.

Speaker 1 (09:04)

So obviously spending time with your wife is obviously very important for you. ⁓ Is there anything else that you recommend to kind of keep yourself in top form?

Speaker 2 (09:19)

Like me, have my time really is first thing on the morning. And I know it's different with, you know, people have got children and everything, I get up first thing, I go to the gym and that's my time. But it's not just there for time on my own. It's keeping me feeling good for my job. But the last couple of weeks I haven't been, just haven't been feeling 100%. I've been a poorly. So I don't feel great physically that way, but it's more than mental.

the mental side of it as well. I don't feel great. So it's just having, for me personally, it's having just a little bit of time getting some fresh air, getting out and about even an hour or two a day if I can just to myself where I can get it. But like I say, everybody's set up is different. So I don't have kids so I can be up and out whenever I want.

Speaker 1 (10:13)

Same, I'm on my own, no kids, no commitments. So I mean, it is obviously different for different people. You've posted before about working at a little salon, a beauty place. Do you happen to utilize their services at all? Are they part of your self-care routine, should we say?

Speaker 2 (10:37)

Oh absolutely, like a friend of mine, she opened a beauty studio, Lemon Grass and Ginger. And I've done all of her kind of decorating and stuff. so like, she does my treatments. I'm like her on-call decorator. know, there's people that come out of there full of like oil and stuff, the touch of the walls. Everything's, that place is bulletproof. For like oily hands and stuff, but.

Speaker 1 (10:42)

Yes, that's one. Yeah.

Hahaha

Speaker 2 (11:06)

I do the work and then she does my treatment and she looks after us because I'm lucky to have the regular massages as well which is like makes a huge difference to me and doing my job so ⁓ but yeah she does me brows lashes massages everything awesome yeah she scratches my back I scratches

Speaker 1 (11:25)

That's what you want. Definitely. Brilliant. Okay. Obviously you cover a multitude of different jobs. Like we just mentioned commercial, small commercial. Can you think of, let's say your favorite job that you've done?

Speaker 2 (11:43)

There's a couple always coming to mind. It's that one that's like working in there just because of the design and stuff. Yeah. Different. was a customer I worked for a couple of years ago and I can only explain a house is like a real life size Wendy house. So as you walk in, it was just a, you know, it's standard new build. It was all white and everything. And she said, I want me stair case green and pink. And I went.

Speaker 1 (12:01)

Wow.

Speaker 2 (12:13)

right okay well green and pink and you know the colors of like you know those fizzy sweets are pink and green but it's though it's that green that wow so like the ceiling the walls were that green doors spindles everything was that pink but then our living room was black what yeah literally every room had a different theme like a different color wow

Speaker 1 (12:21)

Yes, yep.

Goodness me.

Wow.

Speaker 1 (12:45)

Do you prefer working with bolder colours or neutrals? Do you have a preference?

Speaker 2 (12:51)

⁓ I love it when a customer goes bold, especially when they've been in two minds. They say all my favourite colours like burnt orange. But they say I'm frightened of painting. I'm like, it's just paint, you can always change it. ⁓ But through my house, you can see the colour behind it. It's all kind of like the neutral, calm and earthy tones. Because for me and for my wife, when my wife comes home, we love that feeling of just...

Speaker 1 (13:05)

Sit.

Yeah, just deflate. Yeah. Definitely.

Speaker 2 (13:24)

But yeah, love any, you'll know yourself if somebody's got a, just a pop of colour, like, I can't wait to get this on. It's so good. Just depends on the job.

Speaker 1 (13:32)

Yeah.

Totally. On the flip side, can you think of a job that, obviously we've got to be careful there, of a job that you didn't particularly enjoy for any reason at all?

Speaker 2 (13:47)

Absolutely. ⁓ No, but to be honest, I'm very lucky with the clients that I've had. And I think a lot of them have followed us for a while as well. So they get a bit of a feel before I came and quoted for them, that kind of thing. But yeah, I think personally, one of the worst jobs I've had was a couple of years ago. because it was an absolute nightmare, just nothing.

I just wasn't happy with it. Everything was pick, pick, pick, pick. I mean, it wasn't as if I'd done that the job was immaculate. I went over things over and over again. Payment was delayed. They just lived on their own. And it was just like, as soon as I got that last payment, it was blocked on my phone. Contact blocked. And I warned every trades person in the local area about this person.

Speaker 1 (14:45)

It gobsmacks me sometimes that people have the audacity to refuse payment when so much time and effort has been spent. And then you've, you've gone back and you've rectified the niggles that they've written out and, they still think that it's okay not to pay for someone's time and someone's effort. It's yeah, it's not, it's not on.

Speaker 2 (15:11)

It's, mean, like, I know everybody, I always say, people are spending their hard earned money on the one I put my job done, which is completely understandable. I would be the same. But when you're going back two or three times, got to the point I was just like, no more. Like, this is what it is. then, like, I got paid for everything. But then, I nothing more.

 There was another customer where I worked for them a long time ago. I went to squeeze them back in. And this time around, was a bit, I think it was a bullet dodged. 

Speaker 1: Oh really? 

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Another decorator got the job and I didn't realize they end up working for them. If I had have known, I would have given them a heads up as well. I talked to this decorator afterwards and they said, never again.

The customer went round with a torch on his knees around the scones. I was like, oh god.

Speaker 1 (16:19)

Luckily, I've never had that happen to me yet, touch wood, but I just can't fathom it. What is that?

Speaker 2 (16:27)

huh. That's

how. When would you ever be on your knees with a torch to your skirt? Ever in your life?

Speaker 1 (16:34)

Exactly! 

Ah gosh

Speaker 2 (16:36)

So yeah, bullet dodged with that one and again just blocked. I've got a red flag next to the name of my phone.

Speaker 1 (16:44)

Obviously, going, doing that quotes and meeting different people, you obviously have to try and build that relationship straight from the get go. I personally can feel whether things are going to be right within the first kind of five minutes. don't know. How do you kind of approach your quoting estimate?

Speaker 2 (17:03)

Yeah, same thing. You get the vibe kind of straight away, don't you? But with some customers, I think they have either been burnt in the past kind of thing with other trades people. I think naturally, they're a bit, you know, I don't think they mean to be as picky or all-seek, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.

I think they're just kind of worried that, you know, they're going to be ripped off again. But what is a little bit annoying is how long they have potentially followed your work and they know they can see how active you are, like how you go about things. So yeah, I think I'm fortunate in most cases I've priced quite a few jobs so can be selective of which ones I want to kind of go for.

Speaker 1 (17:56)

Yeah. When you kind of have that build up of customers, that it always gives you that feeling of security, doesn't it?

Speaker 2 (18:04)

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (18:06)

So it can give you that slight freedom of thinking that didn't quite feel right. I don't think I'm gonna take that job. It does make you feel bad though, don't it? Having to turn work down. ⁓

Speaker 2 (18:17) 

Yeah, it does, but I think there's so many that I've had and I think they're not being picky, they just want to put the trust in somebody and I know that I can gain that blind trust. I can make sure they are comfortable in their own home. I can make the job what they want it to be. But then, and sometimes nine times out of 10, it works out perfect. They're so comfortable. They're like, I wouldn't go anywhere else now.

and the whole experience has been brilliant, but there's always one you think, now was it those other trades or was it you? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So, yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:57)

Absolutely. It's swings and roundabouts, isnt it? It's like 10 of 1. Obviously, after such a long time in the trade, you'll have got yourself a bit of a routine with how you approach jobs and timescales from visiting to do the quote and then getting the email back out to them. How do you kind of manage that? Is it an evening thing for you or does it overlap into your weekend sort of time?

Speaker 2 (19:26)

I found that I was wasting, not wasting, but a lot of my evenings were taken up by doing quotes and getting them written up and stuff. what I found that that worked for me was opening my diary and saying, right, get all these quotes booked in, in a certain amount of time. So I knew if I wasn't that busy or if I was fairly local, I'll go and price that job. So I'm not sitting in traffic. I'm not wasting so much time. ⁓

And then if I had a day or just even just a Saturday morning free, then I would get all my quotes written up in that time. I found just to do a lot in such a short space rather than going, I've got five jobs at price in two days. I'm going to get those written up. It's just so time consuming. So for me, I find just doing a good few and one sitting and dedicating that time and the rest of the time is freed up.

Speaker 1 (20:21)

Definitely.

I agree. think compacting it into a certain time scale of what, like a one day, ⁓ it doesn't eat into your time. It's that really fine balance into you working during the day. You've still got that extra work to do that sometimes people forget. Your work doesn't just stop when you stop with the brushes and rollers or the sprayer. You've still got to do the paperwork and the.

Speaker 2 (20:44)

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:54)

And the quotes, the extra drive in there and back, it all compacts and time is of the essence, isn't it? It's valuable. ⁓

Speaker 2 (21:01)

Yeah, and that's the thing as well. Sometimes I want to turn around to some customers and say, you know, this isn't actually the most work. This is actually the less amount of work. It's everything outside that takes more. It's going to the merchant, it's sitting in the traffic, it's coming to your house, it's doing your quote, it's taking it home, it's sitting doing it. All of that takes longer than me coming in that room. And they don't grasp that.

Speaker 1 (21:29)

No, crazy, it? The boring part, shall we say, of the paperwork can take longer than the colourful fun part that you're actually being employed to do.

Speaker 2 (21:43)

Thank you.

Speaker 1 (21:44)

I just want to keep on this jobs theme whilst we're in the headspace of remembering certain things, because obviously you've done a multitude of different jobs. What would you say has been one of the most challenging jobs that you've had to do and for what reason?

Speaker 2 (22:01)

ooo, erm, there's none that kind of springs to mind, if I'm honest. think every job has always had that little challenge. I haven't really had a job where it's been like the full things like, this is a nightmare. Like it's so, I can't do it. I think it's just always been those type of particular customers. ⁓ It can be a simple job, a basic job, but the challenge is meeting what they're

Speaker 1 (22:27)

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:35)

they are imagining kind of thing. you what I mean? Yeah. For me, a challenge has always been that customer's vision. Yeah. And it can just be simple as painting the room, not anything that's kind of, you know, really challenging. Yeah. But yeah, nothing really jumps out as one job in particular, which im quite happy about

Speaker 1 (22:37)

Their vision.

Yeah, definitely. Do you tend to let your customers pick the paints and stuff or do you tend to go to a particular merchant?

Speaker 2 (23:10)

Yeah, I do prefer to supply everything. ⁓ And if they say they're going to supply, I say, well, this is what you need. If you want the better job, you want the, you know, the paint to do what you're wanting to do, you need the durability, everything else. This is what you need. By all means, go and get it. But if I get it, it's going to save you a lot of time. You know, and then I actually, But I'm looking at my local merchant.

Tainte Decorating Center, they're literally like 10 minutes from me. They supply everything from like, know, Zinsser, Johnson's, Benjamin Moore, everything. So I'm lucky I can get everything there that I use. So I'm gonna go to different places.

Speaker 1 (23:44)

not.

awesome. That's good.

Yeah,

nothing worse than having to run around different places to get a particular brand this day. I sometimes I split my time between two different ones and you you've driven like 30, 40 minutes by the time you've even been to both. yeah, it's nice that yours is local.

Speaker 2 (24:15)

Yeah, I don't, there's a lot of like products and stuff, you know yourself that you want to try, but I hate the thought of ordering paint. Same. I'm not, I won't do it. I will not do it. If I cannot get it from my merchant or any other store, I am not buying it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:33)

the same. I've never, and I don't think I will order paint online. And I don't know why it is. mean, maybe it's because once I ordered, it's totally different. It's not paint, but I ordered a tub of filler once and it came in a box with about six tubes of caulk and the filler had burst. And all the tubes of cork were covered in filler.

Speaker 2 (24:58)

⁓

Speaker 1 (25:03)

And to me, that would just be my luck with paint.

Speaker 2 (25:10)

Yeah, I can't remember who it was actually, it somebody that I follow on Instagram and they got a Tikkarilla delivery, opened the box. The lid wasn't even sealed, they hadn't even put tape around nothing. just like obviously any kind of impact, it just burst open and it just flooded the box. So that is annoying in itself. But if you run short, if something you like, I've got to two days for paint.

and honestly, it would drive me insane. all paint now disappears off the shelves, I'm quitting. I'm out.

Speaker 1 (25:47)

Definitely. We're not into this robot delivery, nothing like that. No, give me a physical store any day to browse and pick up extra bits. I mean, they're missing a trick. Really. You're in a decorating shop and you're browsing whilst they're mixing your paint. You might end up buying three or four different things that you didn't know you needed.

Speaker 2 (26:10)

I do it all the time.

I wander around that shop whistling and come back with about three things I don't need. I just think, oh, I'll them in the van. I'll keep them in the van. They won't come in wrong.

Speaker 1 (26:24)

Absolutely. I might need that. I might need that. Have I got a job that I might use it on? No, but I want it anyway. Absolutely. Definitely. It's like a toy shop, isn't it?

Speaker 2 (26:34)

Yeah, we all do it.

Oh yeah, it is, I think it's anybody that's in like trade work and they're going to any kind of hardware store it's like a kid in a sweet shop or a

Speaker 1 (26:49)

Definitely. ⁓ man, that's hilarious. I'm glad I'm not the only one that does that.

Speaker 2 (26:57)

But yeah, ordering stuff, trying things. And that's another thing as well that customers don't understand. We've all got what we're preferred, right? Products and paints and stuff. But there's so many available now that it just depends on the job. What's going to be best. Yeah. That you have a preferred brand in paint, but then you go, ⁓ it's a bathroom that's got no window in your light, right? This changes the whole game. Got to try this one.

So being able to just grab what you need is so important.

Speaker 1 (27:30)

Definitely. And it also, it takes some time, doesn't it, to build your confidence in particular products in different rooms. So with the amount of new stuff that's coming out nowadays, different formulas and things, we've gone from simply having a normal matte emulsion. The other option is a silk paint to vinyls and durables and acrylics and it's.

Speaker 2 (27:58)

scrubbables

Speaker 1 (28:00)

It's crazy!

Speaker 2 (28:01)

and anti-reflects and all, it's like, that's insane.

Speaker 1 (28:05)

It is. And that's, that's something else, isn't it? Like, I mean, you go and do your quotes and obviously being the professional, you've got to know what paint would be suitable for the rooms the customer wants you to do. But because there's so many different brands and new stuff's coming out, it's like, should I just try this new product in this room? But I don't know how it's going to react because I've not used it before. And then it's like, what do I do? What do I do?

Do you feel like that?

Speaker 2 (28:37)

Ahh all the time! There's a couple of products now that I know have changed and I'm like right. The opacity has changed in these particular products and the brands will swear blind that they haven't and we know they have because I've used them for years but I know it's changed. So you think you get a recommendation of one of the most common ones is what's the best white for the ceilings. Yeah. It's saying right.

So as an example, anti-reflect, I've used it for years. It's changed. The opacity has changed. Yeah. Johnson's trade, Aqua Guard, Satin was spot on. Opacity is just non-existent now. It's just changed. So getting the recommendation, you're like, if this paint doesn't work, when am going to get the time to change it? I go over it. Like it's such a minefield of what to use and when.

Speaker 1 (29:29)

Exactly.

It is. And then once you've chose it, it's like, oh, please work, please work, please work. It's, yeah. You want to be able to have faith in your choices because at the end of the day, the customer's putting their faith in you to do it, aren't they? And make sure it's a solid finish. But as soon as you put that paint on, you know whether it's going to work or not. Don't you? And then it's like fight or flight moment almost.

Speaker 2 (29:51)

Exactly.

And as I've noticed now, I don't know what I've done for you. There's a lot of people just kind of want to go all white as well, like white walls, white ceiling. I've done so many just white houses. it's like, right, this is a game changer again, because a certain like ceiling paint you want to use, they will look different to the wall paint. So you've got to use the same white, put the light that I want to do above and you're like.

Speaker 1 (30:09)

Literally just done that.

Exactly.

there's gonna be a slight reflection on the ceiling. 

Speaker 2 (30:32)

Yeah. So one like a job I've just done, they said, we need something that's really durable, scrub-able. was like, right. Zinsser are all clean scrub-able, Matt. It does a job. I've got it in my kitchen. It's good stuff. But the white isn't great for opacity. So then I'm going to have to put it on the ceiling. And then it becomes a bit more of an expensive job. Yeah. But I do not want the customer to say that white is different than that white.

Speaker 1 (30:49)

Conner.

This is why and then this brilliant why.

Speaker 2 (31:05)

Exactly. But if it's all the same paint, there's nothing that can say it. It covers your back. So yeah, it's just an absolute.

Speaker 1 (31:09)

definitely.

And people would think that white is the easiest color to paint with.

Speaker 2 (31:19)

Yeah, it's the worst.

Speaker 1 (31:20)

Exactly. It is one of the trickiest to use, it? For those exact reasons you've just said.

Speaker 2 (31:27)

But you see,

this argument goes even further with other decorators, as I say, well no, you just use a contract on the ceiling to quote, no problem. Yeah, on the ceiling it's fine, but still, if you've done a lot of prep, contracts and flashes a lot and you can't touch it up.

Speaker 1 (31:43)

And the lot of contract just comes in white, doesn't it? Not brilliant white. And if you put brilliant white on the walls.

Speaker 2 (31:46)

Yeah.

and I'm sorry but I'm not putting a contract matt on walls as a finish. It is awful.

Speaker 1 (31:56)

Yeah. Sure. You may as well put chalkboard paint on there. Isn't it?

Speaker 2 (32:01)

As soon as you've just got to look at it the wrong way and it it's just so awful. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:08)

If you could do another trade, what would it be and why?

Speaker 2 (32:13)

Erm

Speaker 1 (32:14)

any.

Speaker 2 (32:16)

Probably either carpentry to be a good carpenter. Because some of the stuff and some of the things that I follow, their work is just, what they can make is just unbelievable. Or possibly an electrician, simply because my brother's an electrician. I'll probably end up working with him. Yeah, that's kind of been the only ones I've been interested in really.

Speaker 1 (32:35)

Awesome.

To be fair, I'd probably choose the same ones. I don't know why, but it's just the elements of working with wood. like the sculpture of it all. It's very creative, isn't it?

Speaker 2 (32:58)

Some of the work that you put right is questionable. But when there's some carpenters that are the elite of their trade, some of the work is just phenomenal. So that would be probably what I would go for.

Speaker 1 (33:02)

Ah don't.

I agree with you. Nice one. Right. I'm going to do a bit of a quick fire round for you. So it's going to be a bit of a this or that. Feel free to elaborate on any of them at any point. I might stop you to ask you a bit more or something. Tea or coffee? Bowling or an escape room? Scary escape room. Of course it is. I mean, I've seen your Halloween.

Speaker 2 (33:22)

Yes.

Tea. 

escape room 

I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1 (33:44)

Costumes, mate. Of course it's scary. They scared me. I'm not...

Speaker 2 (33:49)

Do know what though? I've just never been a one for bowling. I just, I'm not a bowl, I'm just not one of them people that goes bowling. Nah, he is.

Speaker 1 (33:55)

Fair enough, fair enough. Chinese or Indian food.

Speaker 2 (34:01)

Indian. Pops? Probably won't go any further than likes of a jalfrezi. I like a little bit. When it's too spicy it's pointless, you just can't enjoy it. Sweating regrettably.

Speaker 1 (34:02)

or mild Indian.

Nice.

Can't even taste anything, can you? Too busy sweating.

Trainers or heels? Beach or city break? Beach. Is there a place on the earth that you've been that is your favourite place for a beach holiday or that you've not been?

Speaker 2 (34:22)

trainers.

there's loads of places I would like to visit, to be honest, but no, it just, to me, any beach, and I'm in, I'm happy. It's just the quiet. just like the quiet. Like a long time ago, I used to love going to like, I've like, gone into cities, moving around, but now there's just too many people. And I'm not, I'm not for people, you know, like I do my job with people and I just like to be on a beach afterwards.

Speaker 1 (34:45)

Yeah.

⁓ Imagine after each day of decorating you could just hang your stuff up and go to beach.

Speaker 2 (35:10)

that'd

be amazing. yeah. No where in particular, just even like up my, and like our beaches and stuff, our course line is beautiful. yeah, it's so nice. And sometimes you wouldn't think it was just like 20 minutes from where I live. Yeah, it's absolutely beautiful course line.

Speaker 1 (35:29)

It's easy to forget that you've got like, beachy coast line up north, that side.

Speaker 2 (35:35)

Yeah, it's so nice. there's a lot of people that now just come up here for a little, like, coastal stay and it's so nice.

Speaker 1 (35:45)

driver or passenger.

Speaker 2 (35:47)

driver. No hesitation.

Speaker 1 (35:49)

Definitely. Bad passenger.

Speaker 2 (35:51)

Solid. six hours, yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:54)

⁓ Solid. All the way to Scotland. Take me there. I'll drive it.

Speaker 2 (35:58)

No problem, I'm not being a passengers.

Speaker 1 (36:00)

⁓

Cats or dog?

Speaker 2 (36:05)

Well, we don't have any pets, right? I do prefer dogs. However, my best friend's got two cats. One went missing for four days and I was going out with mind. She's not even my cat. Aww. Yeah, she's at home now anyway, but when you go over there, like, I'm a cat person, but just for them two.

Speaker 1 (36:08)

Okay.

Yeah, I get that.

Speaker 2 (36:29)

I'm more for a dog, she's got a dog as well ⁓ but yeah we don't have any of own so.

Speaker 1 (36:37)

If you live such a busy life, it is a big commitment for you and for the animal. You need to be able to treat them as they need to be treated. So I get it.

Speaker 2 (36:48)

Yeah, like we can be out from, you know, half seven, eight o'clock, not get into like half five, six. So it's just at the minute it's just not, it's not possible. It's not fair. So.

Speaker 1 (36:59) 

Summer or winter?

Speaker 2 (37:02)

It depends on the kind of winter. I don't like when it's wet and slushy and horrible, but I'm happy when it's frosty and crispy. I like that. I'm pretty much a cold person. I've suffered with rainards as well, so I've got to be careful with when it is really cold.

Speaker 1 (37:11)

Yeah.

I take it you're not a shorts in the winter kind of person then.

Speaker 2 (37:24)

But that's the thing, can wear shorts as long as my top half is warm. I can wear shorts, I'm no problem. I used to play a lot of football as well, so I was kind used to the cold weather.

Speaker 1 (37:35)

Yep, yep. ⁓

Speaker 2 (37:37)

past that now, like, not for me. So I the winter walks, but I do like, you know, when we're getting sunshine anyway. But when it's that low, low sun and you're trying to drive in it, it is awful.

Speaker 1 (37:50)

when the ground's wet as well and it's reflecting off, it's like, I need to stop, can't even see nothing.

Speaker 2 (37:58)

Yeah, so just, yeah, it all just depends on me.

Speaker 1 (38:02)

Fair enough, fair enough. I'm going to be controversial here. Mirker or Festool?

Speaker 2 (38:08)

The only reason being is because I don't have the experience with Mirka. Okay. That's the only thing. The stuff is not cheap. It's not a cheap brand. You get your quality work from it and stuff. There's a lot of these other brands popping up that are meant to be really good. I think once Mines are breaking down and...

you know, I'm going to look at look elsewhere.

Speaker 1 (38:39)

That's it. For a decorator that uses a sander on every job.

Speaker 2 (38:44)

I mean, I've, so the abrasives that I got for mine, I was using the Festool ones and I did get them from like a certain website and they would come within like a week or so i was like fair enough, you know, but then I was recommended ⁓ like a cheaper brand that kind of make the same ones and they are spot on. So I think I'm going to like use those cheaper abrasives because they're compatible with the Festool machines.

as in like the quality and stuff. So if other brands can come in with a cheaper model, people will happily go, do you know what, I'm going to start using them. So it's coming down to that now rather than the well-known brands.

Speaker 1 (39:24)

Absolutely.

It's almost like when, when something goes on your van, it's like, ⁓ my goodness, what do I do now? It's a major part of, of your business. I mean, have you ever been in that situation where you've, you've gone to start the van in the morning, dead, doesn't work.

Speaker 2 (39:46)

Yeah, in the past, like, if I'm fortunate, I've got access to another call that I can use if the van doesn't work or it's going to be in for whatever. But it's still, it's still, it's a massive, like, mental thing at least because even when your van goes in, you think, what do need out of that van for next week? Or if you haven't got it, I'm going to have to go and buy extra and

Everything has a knock on effect. This is another thing that customers don't understand. That van is pretty much your second home. And when you haven't got it, like, everything just stops.

Speaker 1 (40:25)

You've lost a limb almost, don't you? All those little things you bought from the decorating shop, you might need one init.

Speaker 2 (40:33)

I've got to go and buy another one. So yeah, it does happen. I think if you've worked for certain times for a long time, then they are understandable. They get it. But yeah, it's so busy. If they can catch up, it's it's a huge knock on effect.

Speaker 1 (40:52)

Do you get a lot of reoccurring clients then over and over again, like every couple of years, so to speak?

Speaker 2 (40:59)

Yeah, I've got a handful now as well that I like. They are on my personal social media. See them out and about sometimes. There's one, actually there's one job in particular that jumps out. She's quite local. And she had brand new, staircase was brand new, freshly skimmed, new paneling. It was a blank canvas. Got a painter in that she was recommended.

And I was convinced, he painted that whole thing with the sweeping brush. The poor honest, just swept the walls. Honestly, it was horrific. So she was let down. since I got in touch, and I went over and seen her she got a bit of, like she got upset and stuff. it's like, she paid all this money. It was a blank canvas. It could have been beautiful. So was a few weeks or so before Christmas. 

Speaker 2 (41:57)

And I went and I managed to squeeze it in a couple of days, a couple of weekends and managed to get it done.

and her husband lost all faith in know trades and stuff so they became yeah I've done more work for them ever since and they're on social media and yeah I've got quite a few that I work for now religiously it's nice

Speaker 1 (42:25)

Yeah is. That trust from people, you've obviously worked hard for them. They trust you to be in their home and do what they're asking of you and to the standard that they're happy with. So yeah, it's nice that you

Speaker 2 (42:41)

I think it's a worry for people as well who, you know, they've paid upfront or for whatever. I will never take anything upfront other than a deposit when booking them in. I've got terms and conditions that I send, so they fully understand and I always say, please read them and please ask any questions if you're not sure. And it's sometimes it's always just like, when do I pay you? Yeah. And I just say when the job's done or...

Speaker 1 (42:52)

Okay.

Speaker 2 (43:11)

If it's like say a two-week job, three-week job, I'll invoice every Friday for the work that's been done for nothing more. And like, oh right, ok. I think that as well. It's just like, you know what? You trust me, I'm trusting you. Like this is...

Speaker 1 (43:26)

Definitely clear communication into that's all it is. Like, yeah, it makes things so much easier when you just open and honest, everyone knows where they stand and they know what to expect from start to finish.

Speaker 2 (43:40)

Yeah, and the thing is as well this is what it comes back to social media as well and why I do a lot of stuff I do and Every so often I'll get the odd few comments saying Why are showing people what to do? Why you you put yourself out of work and I always say Because let's see I've got 40 years experience. This is how it all starts They'll go. Well, yeah, first of all, he has your gold medal for your 40 years and then

I'll say, if you and your four years experience is threatened by me telling a single mother how to paint a kids room, if you're threatened by that, you're doing something wrong. It's not about telling people how to do a job. It's just showing that little bit of transparency ⁓ about you and how a job should be done. Yeah, because nine times out of 10, they will say, actually, can I just get you to do it?

Speaker 1 (44:35)

Exactly. It's sharing your process or a little piece of the process that you follow. You could be on a job in a room, say a bedroom, and you've got the door shut the whole time. The customer doesn't know exactly what you're doing. So that little bit of transparency, it brings them in on the process. ⁓ It just opens them up to knowing a bit more about you and building that trust, doesn't it?

Speaker 2 (45:04)

Absolutely, even now still, even though decorating has massively moved on, huge, you know, it's improved so much, but we've still got a long way to go. This trade will always be looked down on. they can, honestly, and it makes us laugh because, in instance you are, it's not a proper trade, you see you're the finishing trade. Yes, because we are. Yep.

It doesn't matter if you've done the joinery, you've done the plumbing, you've done the plastering, you've done the electrics, unless that's painted, it's never finished. It is that. Yes, you could live in it, but it's never going to be finished. ⁓ So the reason why I started putting like I put videos on Facebook years ago and just for the sake of it, really. But now it's we are showing what actually goes into it.

Speaker 1 (45:39)

Exactly.

Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (46:00)

 This is what you're paying for. You're not paying for me. Just come in and start rolling your walls. Literally anybody can do that. So once they see what actually goes into it, and that's why I kind of put photos on in the middle of a job and go, this is where it's at now. And people will see it they're like wow, that's a lot of filling and sanding. You would never think of that. You just see it painted. And that's the difference.

Speaker 1 (46:27)

Absolutely. think showing that process is extremely important because sometimes you can, you can quote a job and say it will take five days. So let's say, and the customer won't understand why it's taking you that long. you can, they may not even ask the question. They may just say, sorry, that's, that's a bit too much money for me. The more we show process and what goes into building that 

finished product, the more customers understand the worth of us and why we charge what we need to charge.

Speaker 2 (47:05)

Yeah, absolutely. think it's when you're working for that customer and they're popping their head in every so often, like, God, this looks amazing. You've done so much sanding. I've never seen it look that smooth or whatever. ⁓ God, you haven't stopped. It's all this middle bit. So you'll get a lot of other trades, say.

Speaker 1 (47:07)

Yeah, enough.

Speaker 2 (47:33)

anybody can paint it. If you can piss you can paint it all of that. But it's like, just because you've painted your kids' bedroom, that's your level of, yeah, this is easy. We'll come and do this staircase with me. Do you know what I mean? And that's when they'll be like, yeah, fair enough. That's until they try and do a proper job of it. That's when it's...

Speaker 1 (47:49)

Yeah, absolutely.

Anything that's not just a simple roller. It's like, yeah, actually I don't, ⁓ don't really want to do that. ⁓ yeah. I think I'll leave that to you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:07)

So yeah, a little bit of just, you know, a bit of transparency. Showing a basic thing is not. It's only doing a good thing in your favor every time.

Speaker 1 (48:20)

Absolutely.

Definitely. I know for a fact that you've helped loads of people. One of the people that mentioned you to me, literally around the time I first started following you was my sister. She's in no way a decorator or even related to a trade in any way. And she followed you before I did.

Speaker 2 (48:50)

Sure.

Speaker 1 (48:51)

Yeah, everybody has that link somewhere. It's an art effectively, isn't it?

Speaker 2 (49:01)

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's really, it's the same with any kind of like trade as in, well, if you see like what you see in carbon re-clustering, you've got to be good at your jobs for get those finishes. And it's the same with decorating. Anybody can plaster. It doesn't mean it's going to look good.

Speaker 1 (49:20)

Exactly. ⁓

Speaker 2 (49:23)

I could build something, but it probably looks s***. because I'm not good at it. But yeah, I've learned so much as well from all of the Decorators. Instagram especially is a different level of support. Yeah, especially in decorators I think because we're all in that same job, we're all being looked down on, we're all working together, we're all going in pushing in one direction.

Speaker 1 (49:26)

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:52)

We are starting to show a lot of people up, know, that trades and like, you know, spraying, dustless sanding and working with particular products, what we're achieving. So yeah, the people that are following on Instagram who follow me, like they are amazing. I've learned so much from them as well. that's what it's all about.

Speaker 1 (50:14)

definitely

build each other up. There's nothing like it. Instagram's brilliant for that.

Speaker 2 (50:20)

Yeah, absolutely. There's too many numpties on Facebook and stuff. That's where my real sarcasm comes out on there. I'm just let loose on there. ⁓ But Instagram, feel it's more, for me, it's more me learning stuff and hopefully somebody else learning something. I feel it's more... What a word. I'm just more like for the decorators on Instagram. Yeah.

TikTok and Facebook is just me going feral.

Speaker 1 (50:53)

I have to admit I don't really use TikTok. I don't get it.

Speaker 2 (50:57) 

The good thing about it, right, it can just take like one video to just go crazy. It's good for, again, I've got someone like 200 odd thousand on there that follow us. the majority of them that I've kind of had experience with are great, they're genuine people. And it's good because it can ask a question and you can kind of reply with a video instantly.

Speaker 1 (51:05)

Okay.

Speaker 2 (51:27)

So it's like quick replies, you know, you get a lot more info out there and stuff. So it's good in that sense.

Speaker 1 (51:35)

Okay.

Speaker 2 (51:37)

It's got its trolls and everything else. That's where I do my learning and sharing mostly.

Speaker 1 (51:40)

stick to Instagram.

On that note then, what are your handles for all your social media? Where can people find you?

Speaker 2 (51:52)

TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube as well. Yeah. So it's just Joanne Hay decorating and you will on any of those social media and you will find us. YouTube I'm fairly new to, but I'm working on that. And I'm going to kind of use that more for this kind of stuff as well. Like I would love to share this kind of thing and just giving a lot more knowledge and info on products and stuff. So I'm working, that's going to be something different altogether.

Speaker 1 (52:20)

Awesome. Brilliant.

Speaker 2 (52:22)

It's all getting there. Slowly but surely.

Speaker 1 (52:24)

Gota find that time. I'll put your handles in the episode description so everyone can find you. Wicked. Well, thanks for your time and we'll speak again soon.

Speaker 2 (52:32)

Amazing.

Absolutely. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (52:39)

All right, take care.