Award-Winning Stonemason: Rachael Wragg at Lincoln Cathedral

What does it take to become an award-winning stonemason working on one of Britain’s most historic landmarks? Well tune in and you might find out! 

I speak with Rachael Wragg, a stonemason at Lincoln Cathedral and winner of the On The Tools Craftsperson of the Year Award 2025. 

Rachael shares how she entered stonemasonry later in life at 29, reflecting on the growing number of people retraining and joining the skilled trades as adults. She gives a behind-the-scenes look at working on heritage restoration projects, where craftsmanship, conservation regulations, and community expectations all play a vital role. 

The conversation also explores the physical realities of a career in manual trades, highlighting the importance of physical health, longevity, and the need for more open discussions around women’s health in construction. 

Rachael also speaks about the value of community and support among tradespeople, and her role as a Stabilo ambassador, championing quality tools and precision in craftsmanship. 

An inspiring episode for anyone interested in heritage crafts, stonemasonry, women in construction, apprenticeships, and career change stories. 

Key Takeaways 

• Rachael Wragg is a stonemason at Lincoln Cathedral. 
• She won the On The Tools Award for Craftsperson of the Year 2025. 
• Her journey into stonemasonry began later in life, at age 29. 
• The demographic of apprentices is shifting, with more older individuals entering the field. 
• Working at Lincoln Cathedral offers a unique blend of history and craftsmanship. 
• Restoration work involves navigating complex regulations and community sentiments. 
• Physical health is crucial for sustaining a career in a physically demanding trade. 
• Open discussions about women's health are important in the workplace. 
• Rachael emphasizes the importance of community and support among tradespeople. 
• Her ambassadorship with Stabilo reflects her commitment to quality tools and craftsmanship 

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Chapters 

00:00 Introduction and Background 

01:56 Journey to Stonemasonry 

05:23 The Shift in Apprenticeship Demographics 

07:42 Working at Lincoln Cathedral 

10:37 Challenges of Restoration Work 

15:30 Experiences as a Female in the Industry 

17:32 Maintaining Physical Health in a Demanding Trade 

22:19 Supplements and Health Routines 

27:26 Open Conversations About Women's Health 

30:57 Ambassadorship with Stabilo 

37:29 Upcoming Projects at Lincoln Cathedral 

40:47 Quickfire Questions and Closing Thoughts 

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Transcript

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Rachael Wragg (00:14)

Hi, my name's Rachael and I'm a stonemason at Lincoln Cathedral.

Laura (00:19)

Thank you for joining me today, Rachael. I know you're very busy. You're welcome. I know you're quite the pro at the old podcast by now, aren't you? I like to start this one off by saying a huge congratulations because recently you have won the On The Tools Award for Craftsperson of the Year.

Rachael Wragg (00:24)

Thank you for having me

⁓ yeah.

Laura (00:45)

Yeah. So yay.

Rachael Wragg (00:48)

I

know that's wild, isn't it? know, like totally like unexpected and like, yeah, just crazy. And everyone's been really nice. It's just, know, people are nice and that's nice. So yeah, it's been a really lovely honor. yeah.

Laura (01:01)

Yeah, congratulations. So let's get into you and let's find out a bit more about you. Where did your journey start for people that don't know anything about you?

Rachael Wragg (01:11)

Yeah, so I went to university at 18, like you do, you finish school and you're kind of told that if you can go to university, you should go to university. That's like the only path. So you sort of go to university. I did fine art in Leeds, which is, usually you do art because you don't know what you want to do. In my case, the links. ⁓

And probably, I mean, in hindsight, it's probably shouldn't have gone to university because I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I just did the subject that I was good at, but just because you're good at something doesn't necessarily mean you should do it. Doesn't mean you're going to make a career of it. Doesn't mean you enjoy it. I don't necessarily enjoy it. I was just always told I was good at it. So thought, well, I better do that then. like just cause you're good at something doesn't necessarily mean it has to be your job.

So I definitely felt the pressure to go to university and didn't make the most of it at all. And then just worked in shops to pay my rent. then had... Right, when you finish uni, you're like, well, what do I do? I need to pay my rent. So I better just go and like work in a shop. Then I saw the apprenticeship advertised for Lincoln Cathedral when I was 29.

Laura (02:11)

It's the same.

Okay.

Rachael Wragg (02:27)

I was really lucky that I was incredibly, incredibly lucky to be in a position where at the time my partner was able to like support us. So I could kind of take the hits and go back on to an apprentice wage, which is something that not a lot of people get the opportunity to do. So I count myself really lucky that I was able to do that at that time. Yeah. And it just went from there. just, did the apprenticeship, loved it. First week there, I was like, oh, this is it. This is the thing that I'm meant to do.

Yeah, did my apprenticeship and then went on to do a foundation degree, which the cathedral put me through. And now I'm doing a master's degree, which they're like supporting as well. yeah, I've been there for eight years now and they can't get rid of me now.

Laura (03:12)

It sounds like they won't want to by the looks of things. Wow. So much to unpack. mean, the fact that you started your apprenticeship, as people would probably say later in life, because typically you start from school age, don't you? It's definitely becoming more apparent nowadays, I think.

Rachael Wragg (03:36)

I yeah, I'm seeing, especially just in the last few years, when I did my apprenticeship eight years ago, I was the oldest person on my college course by a country mile. I was like, I was almost eight, old enough to be the mother of like some of the kids in there. But now, now that we're taking on trainees and kind of have bursary programs and apprenticeship programs, all different kinds of programs, but we're now seeing people coming in in their like mid thirties to forties.

people who have like, like in our generation, the elder millennials who felt the pressure to go to uni and are now like at a point in their life where they can actually take that step back and reassess what they want to do. And we're getting more older people coming in than younger people actually. So it's like a weird shift.

Laura (04:23)

Yeah, definitely. And I think it's a valid point that you touched on about at the time when you started yours, that your partner was able to ⁓ support you because obviously rejigging your life career wise later in life comes with a whole bunch of concerns, you know, especially if you've got children or, you know, there's

there's a mortgage involved, et cetera. There's lots to think about. And yeah, if you've got that chance, I think you have to take it, don't you?

Rachael Wragg (04:59)

Definitely, yeah. Like when, like in the past when people have said like, what advice can you give to people who want to retrain and craft? And my advice is like, don't take advice from me because I was so lucky. And I am very privileged that I was able to say, well, I'm just going to earn like no money for the next three years so that I can like do this fun thing I want to do. Like that's not something that most people get to do. So I'm very like, I very much acknowledge the fact that I was in a privileged position to do that.

So I'm not one that like dishes out advice like, just do it. Like it's that easy. It's not, you've got like mortgages and bills and kids and know, carer responsibilities, all this stuff. So a lot of people can't just say, well, I'm just going to quit my job and do this for three years. Like it's really hard. And yeah, it's a shame because there are people that would be amazing like crafts or trades who maybe didn't have the opportunity when they were school age, didn't feel like they could.

and now maybe can't. So that's, you know, it's tough.

Laura (05:59)

it is. everybody's situation is different, like we've said. And the people that do get the chance to look into doing a different trade or a trade rather, or a craft. mean, grab it with both hands. You know, it's a once in a lifetime potentially opportunity, isn't it? So, yeah, we definitely need more people.

in the trades, in the crafts. So if you get that chance, just think about it. Think about that passion, know, something that sparks you and just go for it if it suits. So obviously you are part of the Lincoln Cathedral Craft Massive team. How is the massive? ⁓

Rachael Wragg (06:43)

We should start calling ourselves. Yeah.

Laura (06:46)

The craft massive that is just off the top of my head What ⁓ what part of working in the cathedral do you love the most?

Rachael Wragg (06:57)

my gosh, do you know what I love? So we're like a works department. So there's maybe like, I want to say like 20 odd of us including joiners, glazers, conservators, there's six masons. So ⁓ it's quite a nice little family kind of vibe and we all get on really well. We're all kind of similar age-ish kind of mid to late early thirties slash forties. it's...

It's quite nice camaraderie. Like everyone there gets on well. We all have dinner together every day and we all like hang out. it's like, so I really like working with people that I get on with and having that camaraderie. Cause you're all kind of working on the same thing to the same goal. So it's, that's quite nice. And then also like, I love the history. Like I'm a big history nerd. So being able to be on this like, you know, medieval.

like iconic monument and being able to work on it again is like a huge privilege. So just to be able to go to work and do that is amazing. And then also like just selfishly, like I quite like just being in my little bubble. So when we're in the workshop, you just put your headphones on and you just work on a stone for eight hours. And I just get to like Zen out, listen to audio books, being like the moment is quite like relaxing. It's quite like therapeutic. So that's quite nice.

Laura (08:17)

Awesome. Yeah, I I used to live in Lincoln for a period, good few years ago. And been into Lincoln Cathedral and I walked around it many a time and it makes me think, I've probably seen you at some point, but never actually realized it. So it's mad that you were so close. Yeah, it's amazing. And obviously there's some astounding intricacies.

to the cathedral itself. What's the most challenging part of working on the cathedral?

Rachael Wragg (08:50)

I so I mean, just with most like ancient monuments or historic listed buildings, like grade one star, big listed buildings like cathedrals or things like castles, like there's always going to be challenges. There's like a lot of conservation ethics. There's a lot of governing bodies, councils, like fabric advisory committees and a lot of legislation and stuff around what you can and can't do. and a lot of people.

with lot of opinions about what you should be doing and shouldn't be doing. So there's always that challenge of what's best for the building, what's going to keep it standing, what is best practice, conservation ethics. And then obviously people have a lot of like vested interests, like people love the building, you know, a lot of people come there, it's an active religious building. So people have this like personal connection to it.

So, you you might want to clean something up and make it look brand new, but that might be quite jarring to people because they've always known it in a particular way. And when you start changing it, then people can get quite like protective over it. So you've always got to bear in mind like, yeah, what's the best thing for the building, for the structure, for the people, the ethics, all that kind of stuff. So that's like interesting. ⁓ And then like probably the second most challenging thing is the pigeons. I hate pigeons. I hate them so much.

Laura (10:08)

Ha ha.

Rachael Wragg (10:09)

I'm an animal lover, like I love all animals. When I started there, I was like, oh, this is so nice. Oh, pigeons, they're misunderstood. What lovely misunderstood birds. And then when you work on a scaffold long enough, you learn to detest pigeons. And that's just happened to me.

Laura (10:24)

⁓ no. ⁓ gosh. with all the kind of red tape as you could kind of categorise it, do you find that that makes the restorations take longer? Because I always have visions that there was always scaffolding up around the cathedral.

Rachael Wragg (10:43)

Yes.

I mean, there's two things that there is always going to be scaffolding up. A lot of people say, when are going to be finished? When is there going to be no scaffolding? There's never, never going to be a time when there's not scaffolding. We work around the building. So there is like a plan. briefly in a nutshell, every five years, the architect,

has to write what's called a quinquennial report. And that's for all kind of historic, but like churches and cathedrals, they write a thing called a quinquennial, which is a list, like a detailed survey of the entire fabric inside and out. And there's like a red list and an amber list and red list is like things that has to happen immediately. And then amber is like, okay, somewhere down the line. So there's like a, we've got over a hundred years worth of work.

and we're just gonna keep working around working through the red list. And then every five years there'll be a new quinquennial and new things will get added. So it's like constant. So there'll always be scaffold. But timeline wise, I always joke that we've got this like normal human time and then there's cathedral time. Whenever I explain to people, look, we're running on cathedral time. It's gonna take a lot longer because you can't just say, well, this bit's broken. So we're just gonna go up and take it down and rebuild it. You can't just do that.

⁓ the architect, the archaeologist, all these people have to make that decision, the head mason, the head conservator, everyone has input. And then there's like, it has to go to the fabric advisory committee who might only meet once a month. And then it has to go to chapter, which is the cathedral's governing body who only meet once a month and they have to approve and then plans have to be drawn. And so it's like this constant, you're just constantly waiting for bodies of people to be in the same place to say yes, so that you can start the work.

Laura (12:27)

Wow, goodness me. I could see why it takes so long. mean, obviously the restorations of it are not to be done lightly. So I can understand why so many people have to be involved in the decisions, but yeah, goodness me.

Rachael Wragg (12:46)

Yeah, I think sometimes, like, especially on my Instagram, you get a lot of people who maybe, you know, don't know all of this background and they get very like, have you done that for us? I think they think we're just playing at it or we just woke up one morning and decided to do it. And it's like a fun hobby. you're like, no, there's like so much decision making and so much like admin and red tape and permissions that people don't even realize.

Laura (13:08)

Yeah, it's nice to know a bit of an inside scoop on it because outsider's point of view who used to live in the area, just thinking, oh, the scaffold will come down at some point. No, it won't because it's an ongoing project, you see. So yeah, wow. Definitely eye opening for sure. So you now have been in the business

of crafts on a historic site for eight years now. What would you say has been your biggest challenge being a female in the industry, if any?

Rachael Wragg (13:48)

Do you know, I see again, I'm like the worst person to ask this to because I've been incredibly lucky. I think because it's such a small workshop, it's not like a commercial site. So you're not getting this constant influx of like different people coming in and out and contractors and that kind of thing where you might have more interactions with people who maybe don't see women doing this kind of thing. So.

Laura (13:53)

That's okay, that's good.

Rachael Wragg (14:10)

Yeah, in like heritage crafting, conservation as well in particular, there are quite a lot of women who work in conservation anyway. Not so much in stonemasonry, which is the more like trade side. But I always thought because we're all there for like the same reason, we all love the building, we all love our job and our craft is kind of maybe a more positive like attitude. So I've always gotten on really well with the guys in the workshop. We've always like had that camaraderie. So I've been quite lucky.

The only place maybe where I've experienced any kind of like, not necessarily discrimination, but just like knobheadishness is just Instagram, social media, But like that's not real life and it doesn't matter. So I just like ignore that.

Laura (14:53)

Fair enough, yeah. It's good that you've got that mentality towards it as well, because again, it can hurt sometimes when you get comments and just pure nastiness really. There's no need for it, you know?

Rachael Wragg (15:06)

a lot of nastiness online but I just think well you don't do my job and I do so it doesn't matter.

Laura (15:10)

I've spoke to a number of different tradeswomen across the board in different areas, and I myself, being a decorator in the trades, find that coming to a certain age, you start to feel the aches and the pains and this and that, you know, and

I've seen how many stairs you have to go up to in the cathedral. So I'd like to know how you stay healthy and how you find the trade is on your physical being mentally and physically.

Rachael Wragg (15:47)

Yeah, ⁓ get ready for the answer to this. long you gone? I'm like, I'm a TED talk on all of my exercise. Yeah, now I'm very, so I've always been like, I like exercise. I like doing things. I've always been one of them insufferable people that just is like, yeah, let's go rock climbing. Let's go surfing. Let's go skiing. Let's do stuff. like, ⁓

Laura (15:50)

it.

Rachael Wragg (16:06)

Yeah, I just smash the gym. I run 5k every Saturday. I'm one of those people. I'm sorry guys. I go running every Saturday. I go horse riding. I go swimming. I go to the gym three times a week. Like my body is my most important tool. To do my job, my body has to work. So I'm very conscious of that. I will just, even if I just go to the gym for like 20 minutes, it's better to do something than nothing. Just turn up and do something.

because so long as my body is working, I will be able to carry on doing this job. So that's my only real advice. And trying to eat healthy, nutrition and supplements. And I'm 37 now, so yeah, all of that stuff really, getting a good night's sleep. All that stuff you're supposed to do and you never do because life gets in the way. I really prioritise that to the point where I am probably a little bit insufferable of like, I can't go out guys, I've got to go to the gym or...

I can't do that today because I've got to go swimming and people think, well, that's a bit of a cop out. But now if I don't make the time and prioritize that, then I will feel the effects of it later on when I'm struggling to climb a scaffold. Also, go to the chiropractor. Big advocate. Just go to the chiropractor, guys. So worth it.

Laura (17:24)

It is, I mean, I've been to a chiropractor for years, probably 10 years now off the back of my old job, being sat down all the time, I got bad lower back. But since going back into the gym and lifting weights, I've not had to go to the chiropractor.

Rachael Wragg (17:39)

makes such a big difference. ⁓ Since I've started, I've started doing some sprinting training recently, which is relatively new for me. And I've noticed since I've started doing that, just walking up turrets and like, well, I used to really struggle doing this. And now like, I don't feel like I'm struggling. That's great. You know, if you can make it so that your day to day is easier. Brilliant.

Laura (17:41)

in it.

Absolutely, absolutely. think any sort of movement and I might be biased. I'm quite the advocate for weight training now, especially for women. And I think one of the biggest changes I've seen is leg strength and how much it just helps. It's crazy, but yeah, definitely. And never underestimate a good night's sleep.

Rachael Wragg (18:19)

so much, yeah.

yeah, it's the best.

Laura (18:29)

It is the best!

Rachael Wragg (18:31)

And I'm rubbish as well, because I have to get up for work. I leave my house at 6 a.m. And I'm not one of those people that can just roll out of bed and roll into the car. Everyone's like, if you leave at 6 a.m., why aren't you just getting up at 10 to 6? ⁓ No, cannot do that. That's not normal. I need time to wake up, have breakfast, sort my life out, stare into the abyss for half an hour. So I get up at like 5 a.m., sometimes half four, sometimes 5 a.m. every morning.

I go mad early. So I go to bed at like half eight, because I'm like an old woman now. So I'm basically everyone in my friends and family knows I don't do anything after work midweek. Like that's it. I'm not doing, I'm not going out midweek, because I want to be in bed before nine, because I'm getting up at stupid o'clock. like my social life, Monday to Thursday, nonexistent.

Laura (19:19)

That's fair play. That's some strong willpower there as well because I would love to go to bed before nine o'clock. I just, can't, I don't know what it is. I'm more of a 11 o'clock kind of person and then I'll get up at like half six, kind of jobby, but seven to eight hours does me sleep wise.

Rachael Wragg (19:43)

Yeah, I know. women supposed to get like, I feel like I'm going to say like, I saw something somewhere and we all know it's going to be on TikTok because that's where you get all of your like really important current affairs information. But aren't women supposed to get like eight to 10 hours to be like hormonally balanced? There's been like some studies done on that. It's really interesting. Because our hormone cycle works differently to men's. So we're supposed to get like eight to 10 hours sleep a day.

Laura (20:09)

Wow, I wish I could get, in fact, the other day I had 10 hours sleep. I three on the sofa and I had seven in bed. I was like, yeah, I was a new woman afterwards. Keeping on just the health point of things, he touched on supplements and things like that. I know I take an abundance of them. I'm a little bit older than you.

Rachael Wragg (20:18)

Incredible.

Laura (20:32)

only by a couple of years, but next year I'll be 40. yeah, taking the supplements is quite a routine of mine. Is there anything specific you would be okay talking about in what you take?

Rachael Wragg (20:47)

So what I take every day is I do vitamin D3 in gummy form because obviously everyone needs vitamin D. Everyone is lacking vitamin D. And also D3 is good for lowering cortisol levels, which is the stress kind of hormone. So if you're stressed, your cortisol levels are raised and that causes other issues. So D3 can help with lowering that, which is always good. I take NMNs, ⁓ which is the kind of the new like hot thing to take.

But that's yeah, helps with energy, especially as you get older, like the kind of the cells in your body that like give you the oomph and the energy start to not be produced as much, I guess. I don't know, I'm not a scientist. But yeah, the NMNs are like really good for like energy and supporting that like, yeah, when you're awake. And I take collagen, obviously, because I'm a 37 year old woman, got to this out. So yeah, I'm on the collagen. And then I do turmeric shots as well.

And I also, because I'm doing the gym a lot, I'm doing a lot of weights and a lot of sprint training. So I have a, I take Huel, the protein shake with three grams of creatine. So that's my current nutrition situation.

Laura (21:54)

Nice.

Not too different from mine. I take the creatine. I also do vitamin D. I'm not sure if it's D3 though. I'll have to look at that. That's good to know. it's quite a big thing at the moment about cortisol levels, isn't it? And stress. So that is good to know, definitely. also take like a multivitamin for immune health.

I can't afford to be off sick.

Rachael Wragg (22:26)

When you're self-employed, you need to be like, yeah, your body is your best tool. You need to be present.

Laura (22:31)

Yeah, yeah. I take magnesium for my joints as well, because obviously up and down on your knees, up and down the stairs. What else do I take? I actually take a perimenopausal tablet as well. Yeah.

Rachael Wragg (22:47)

interesting. Because

I'm like 37 and it kind of, you know, from your 40s,

Laura (22:52)

I started taking that when I was 38, just 38.

I was getting short tempered more than normal. My sleep was getting interrupted. I was getting really random joint pain that I'd not had before. So I was getting hip pain. was waking up in the morning and I literally was in agony getting out of bed and nothing else had changed in my life.

Yeah, heart flutters. Yeah, so just to start, start of the typical symptoms that they tell you to look out for. So yeah, that kind of, I notice if I don't take it,

Rachael Wragg (23:33)

Yeah, I've been reading a lot about perimenopause and looking into that because yeah, it's gonna happen. It's gonna start happening and it's not like you can go to the doctors and be like, I think I'm perimenopausal because I tried that last year and the doctor just rolls their eyes and goes, don't wish your life away and then like send you on your merry way.

Laura (23:51)

Yeah, you're just stressed don't worry about it. yeah I I don't

Rachael Wragg (23:53)

just your period. Doctor stuff,

Laura (23:59)

think it should be some sort of stigma that we don't talk about it, you know.

Rachael Wragg (24:04)

Yeah, yeah, mean women's health is famously not very well researched even now like a lot of like drugs and a lot of like women's kind of problems like women's health related issues, know, medical misogyny is a real thing and they're like, yeah, we definitely tested these drugs on women but those women were hamsters and two of them were dead. it definitely works.

Laura (24:30)

it's shocking. Yeah, it really is. And I think ⁓ the more, yeah, like you say, the more we talk about it, the more it makes other women think and hopefully have a similar conversation with someone close to them. And it's not a taboo thing or anything like that. It's the early you recognize it, the earlier you can find something that will help your days become easier. Yeah, definitely. And I think obviously because being women in trades,

that we've potentially not got that camaraderie in a fellow female in your work environment. So therefore you might not have somebody to kind of confide in. I think.

Rachael Wragg (25:13)

Dude, I will fully go into the workshop and be like, guys, got my period. Yeah, thanks, bye. And like, we have a calendar and I will put it on the calendar and I will tell everyone, like, this is the week, do you want in three days, guys? Brace yourselves. Yeah, will like fully tell everyone. I think it's really important that we just make it like, it's a normal thing. Like, 52 % of the world's population have had or are capable of having periods. So like, actually we're the majority, we're the most normal.

Laura (25:23)

Fair play!

Rachael Wragg (25:43)

So like, yeah, I will just go into the workshop and announce it and tell everyone what's going on and give them all the details. yeah, and I actually, I actually have endometriosis as well. So like I struggle like occasionally I'm not like, not so bad that it really affects my life, but I will get some curve balls and yeah. like everyone I want to is I talk about it and I explain it to them and I draw diagrams and yeah, I'm a big fan of just talk about it because it's normal.

Laura (26:09)

for you.

Absolutely. Wow. And I think, it is a hard thing to approach, especially when you're working in an environment that's all male. But again, you know, you are able to share what you're going through, it's just like when we asked the guys, you know, we understand that the mental health of the guys in the trades is shocking.

Rachael Wragg (26:26)

Doot.

Laura (26:39)

and tackling that topic of giving them space to talk is just the same for us when it comes to say this topic of women's health, you because your periods impact you for what, two, three weeks of a month. So therefore you are gonna be up and down mood wise at work. So it's a good return conversation to have on...

a touchy subject, I guess, a sensitive subject in the workplace. So yeah, definitely don't shy away from talking about it to anybody.

Rachael Wragg (27:18)

Yeah, people need to know. Like, if I go on like a cleaning rampage in the workshop, I'll be like, guys, I'm ovulating, so I need to clean everything. I just need to know, like, guys, I'm in my luteal phase, so I'm going to be really angry this week. And they're like, oh, I'm grier than normal. So it's just like, because they've all got wives and daughters and mom partners, like, so, grownups, they all know.

Laura (27:39)

That's it. That's it. And I guess this is where kind of social media comes into a good light as well, where we have all the groups for each kind of trade and Instagram especially, I think is a super friendly place amongst trades and crafts people because I feel if you're in a trade or a heritage craft such as yours that there's just so much respect for each other, I feel.

And if you can find some good eggs to kind of speak to and create that little group amongst different trades, then you can kind of open up and share what you're going through as well.

Rachael Wragg (28:22)

Instagram's been great for finding my people and I've got a little group of people that I can go to if I've got queries or concerns or questions or how have you guys managed this or coped with this. It's been a great, not just networking, which is a really wanky thing to say, but genuinely have formed some meaningful connections with people that I've just met over Instagram, which is brilliant.

Laura (28:45)

Yeah, I found the same from just doing the podcast, like interviewing people and then talking to them again afterwards. You bond and you get that sort of similar energy level from people, don't you? Yeah. It blows my mind still that social media can do that for you. Like, you feel like you know somebody, but you've never actually met them in person. It's mad. It's mad.

Rachael Wragg (28:59)

Yeah definitley

Laura (29:12)

I want to touch on your... am I right in saying it's a ambassadorship with Stabilo?

Rachael Wragg (29:20)

Yeah, I'm just part of the family at this point. They're just part of the fam. Yeah, I've been working with them for about five years, four years, five years, think, four years, something like that. Yeah, I was always from, like, I started my Instagram page because I was like, well, I wanna document, almost like a blog or like a diary, document my training so that when I'm an old lady, I can look back at it and be like, look how much fun I had.

So yeah, I just kind of used it as like to document. I didn't actually expect anyone would be interested in it. And then it became like a bit of a monster and people started to become interested in it. And I was like, oh shit. And I've always said from the start, it's going to be like kind of informative, a bit educational, like fun, because like why not? It's social media. It's supposed to be social. But I'm quite like strict on, I'm not going to...

advertise stuff. I don't work in telemarketing. It's not my job to sell people's products. However, if a company like that I already use their stuff like and they're just the best levels aren't they? Like everyone knows that everyone who works in construction is that well yeah they're the best ones. So yeah if a company that whose tool I already use a lot anyway are like hey we'll send you some tools or work we do. I'm like yeah definitely you can your stuff.

And I say no to more companies than I say yes to. I pretty much say no to everyone because I will, I don't use it. I'm not going to like tell people about it. And yeah, I've been quite lucky. Instagram's great for that. Like if a company wants to send me some like, yeah, a hammer, like Thor is amazing. I use Thor hammers. One of the best tools I have is my Buffalo Hide Thor hammer. And then they were like, we're going to send you a hammer. was like, People already use your hammers. That's amazing. Thank you. So.

Yeah, the stability thing is fantastic. And they're really actually a nice company. Like I wouldn't like be endorsed by or work with a company if I didn't actually like the people that run the company or like the kind of the marketing people that I have to deal with. And they're just all dead lovely. And we're all just mates at this point. So it's just like, nice.

Laura (31:28)

I love that. Cause you went to the factory, you? In Germany with Emily as well. Was that October?

Rachael Wragg (31:36)

Was it September? Am I in September? End of September? Oh

Laura (31:39)

Okay, that looked insane.

Rachael Wragg (31:42)

Yeah,

I'm the kind of nerd that's like, I want to know how stuff made. Like if I go to a factory and see how something made, cool. Yeah, that was, you know, that was actually the second time I went to the factory. I was work learning. Yeah, I know. Old hack at this point. Parking space. But yeah, no, that was so they really don't honestly, they really take care of their people. Like if they're like working with like,

Laura (32:01)

it

Rachael Wragg (32:08)

Instagrammy people then they are a really good company that actually take care of us and they take us on little trips and treat us to dinner and they're just yeah and it's still a family-run company and it's been there for over a hundred years and they've got a nice vibe they're not just a big like white ticket kind of company that just yeah churns out stuff they actually make the stuff and sell the stuff which is quite nice

Laura (32:31)

There you go, amazing. And I understand the want to only kind of rep stuff that you, products that you use, totally get that because again, you can, I feel if you don't use it, then you can't genuinely give a good like overlook on things, on products. I don't quite understand.

Nothing against people that choose to do it, that's their choice, but personally I wouldn't, I'm on your boat so to speak, I wouldn't rep a product that I wouldn't use, you know.

Rachael Wragg (33:11)

It feels disingenuous and like, can tell, but like, obviously there are people that work with loads of brands and really play the game and that's amazing. Like if that's your USP and that works for your page and that works for the kind of content you make and you make that kind of content and you're doing it well, like crack on, good for you. Like to be able to do that. Like social media is a great tool for that.

Laura (33:13)

That's it

Rachael Wragg (33:34)

But then, people use social media in different ways for different things. And I just use mine in a different way. And selling products to people wouldn't fit in with how I use my page. So, and also like, I'm quite, I can't just make content up. I can't just wake up and go, today I'm going to make a video about a spirit level. I just have to be using it in my job. If that week I happen to be fixing some ashlers and I happen to need a spirit level, then I'll make a video.

But I'm not in control of my timetable. I'm not in control of the work I do. yeah, if a company that like Thor, if the company that makes hammers is like, can you make a video about a hammer this week? If I'm not fixing a stone, then I can't. I can't just invent a video just for a product. So it has to fit in with what I'm doing. It has to be something that I actively use and that I would use and pay for anyway. that's, and also I don't have time, man. I'm so busy. I don't have time.

Laura (34:31)

Especially if you're in bed by eight, you know.

Rachael Wragg (34:34)

Yeah,

just think it almost takes ages and I'm rubbish at it. It's so boring and I hate doing it.

Laura (34:42)

No, I'm not a huge fan, but again, it's one of those things that keeping up with the times and social media is such a big part of everyday life. There can be that slight pressure of feeling that you have to still keep yourself in people's feeds and stay relevant and all that sort of stuff, you know.

Rachael Wragg (35:06)

Pressure is real, man. And some people are so good at it. Like you look at people that have got all the kits and that's amazing. If that's what they're into, some people get really into like the kit and the editing and their pages look incredible and so like editorial and beautiful. And I think, ⁓ I wish I could do that, but I just can't. I just have to take my phone to a scaffold pole and put it on time-lapse. And if it's good, then I'll post it. And if it's not good, then I'll probably still post it.

Laura (35:28)

A

love it, obviously you are fixed on working at Lincoln Cathedral. Is there any big events or anything coming up in relation to what you do day in, day out?

Rachael Wragg (35:42)

Big events. I mean, our work is quite like, it works on like a cycle. So at the moment we're outside, we're trying to stay outside for as long as possible until it gets too cold. Cause the longer we stay outside, cause we only have like so many months of indoor work. So the longer we can stay outside, then the longer we can stay like indoors over the winter. We don't want to finish our indoor work in like March and be out in the rain. It's nice to stay indoors till like end of May.

So we do, do you know what, what's really exciting is after Christmas we're going to be doing some really good carving and I'm so excited about the carving that we've got coming up because we've had, the last couple of years has been quite not boring but kind of very samey in terms of the kind of stones that we've been working and we're going to be doing some really exciting beautiful carving January, February and I'm buzzing about it.

Laura (36:37)

Then will that be for pieces that sit on kind of the apexes of the cathedral so to speak?

Rachael Wragg (36:45)

Yeah,

so yeah, on the pinnacles at the top of the Flying Butracies is on the Chapter House, we're going to be doing finials and crockets and stiffleaf capitals and we're all going to get the chance to do them and it's all very exciting.

Laura (36:57)

Goodness

me. I don't know what any of those things are, but they all sound amazing. Awesome. Well, I can't wait to see. Well, hopefully you'll get some content of it so we can see what those things are. Amazing. Yeah. Okay. So we've come to the point where I like to do a quick fire question round. Ready? ⁓ Easy one to start with. Tea or coffee?

Rachael Wragg (37:02)

I

Laura (37:26)

Fine detail carving or block shaping.

Rachael Wragg (37:33)

Detail carving.

Laura (37:33)

Limestone or sandstone?

Rachael Wragg (37:36)

limestone, yeah, all day long, only limestone, ever. Never wanna work sandstone can get in the bin. Sorry, sandstone masons no. It'll kill ya, it'll literally kill ya.

Laura (37:46)

We don't want that, we don't want that. Inches or millimetres?

Rachael Wragg (37:50)

Both at the same time, totally fine. I will measure something as three feet, two mil. That is fine.

Laura (37:56)

Brilliant. Driver or passenger?

Rachael Wragg (37:59)

Driver, always driver, always.

Laura (38:02)

A road run or a track run?

Rachael Wragg (38:05)

Road run. Yeah. no. ⁓ track run. no, that's hard. I do like being on the track. It's quite nice. ⁓ both.

Laura (38:06)

Yeah.

I thought it would be.

Yeah, both. Track run with your dad. Is that what we're saying? Yeah. I've seen him. I've seen him running that track on your socials. Go on, dad.

Rachael Wragg (38:22)

I track him with dad.

Did you know he's fast as athletics? He competes nationally, he's a fast dad.

Laura (38:34)

Go on son. Yes, love that. And two more, Gothic Arches or Romanesque Curves.

Rachael Wragg (38:36)

you

Romanesque curves, big, big up the Romanesque. Doesn't get the rep it deserves. We need more Romanesque out there in the world.

Laura (38:49)

awesome and a vintage warehouse sale or high street sale.

Rachael Wragg (38:54)

Vintage warehouse, dead people's clothes, always dead people's clothes.

Laura (38:58)

I knew you'd say that, I knew you'd say that. Awesome. Thank you, thank you. Awesome. Right, final few here for you that I ask everybody that comes on the show. And first one is, if you could be a different trade, what would you choose and why?

Rachael Wragg (39:04)

love researched questions.

⁓ that's not fair. I'd like to be a blacksmith. Is that a trade or a craft? Yeah, toolsmith, making tools, making swords. Yeah, blacksmith.

Laura (39:25)

⁓

Yeah, it's good job.

What a choice. That's incredible. No one said that yet, I don't think. Amazing. Dya know, if there is a blacksmith out there, get in touch because I want to speak to you. I've been trying to find somebody like that and you're very like undercover. So hit me up, come and talk to me. will have you on. what trade or who do you think I should have on the show next?

Rachael Wragg (39:39)

Big up the blacksmiths?

Mmm, ⁓ have you spoken to Emily yet?

Laura (40:06)

Yeah, she's been on. I'll speak to her again though she wants to.

Rachael Wragg (40:07)

She's the best one.

Get some more like heritage crafty people, get some Thatchers. See if you can find a Thatcher.

Laura (40:18)

I'm trying, I am trying my best on that one. I tell you that, definitely. Yeah, again, another undercover craft that they like to just stay in their lane and do their thing, you know. Come and talk to us, people want to know about what you do. It's, yeah. Cool. Isn't it? I know. Cool. All right, lovely. Well, where can people find you on social media, Rachael?

Rachael Wragg (40:36)

Thank

You can find me mostly on Instagram at thegingermason, not just a clever name. I am on TikTok, but I am rubbish at it because I'm an elder millennial. once a month, I'll remember I have a TikTok and post a video. So it's not very good. So yeah, Instagram.

Laura (41:01)

I think all of us, our age are the same with TikTok. We say we're on it, but then we're like, but I never post on it. It's just too hard.

Rachael Wragg (41:09)

It's

intense, it's really intense, there's too much stuff.

Laura (41:13)

⁓ brilliant. So Instagram, the ginger mason, that's where we'll find all your best work and I'll make sure that all your links are in the show notes anyway. ⁓ But yeah, awesome. Thank you so much for giving me some time today. I've loved speaking to you about so many different topics. It's nice to touch on women specific topics if it fits in the conversation, know, it's brilliant.

Rachael Wragg (41:39)

Definitely. Now it's been nice. Thank you for having me on. Good chat.

Laura (41:43)

You're welcome All right. Lovely. Thank you very much.

Rachael Wragg (41:46)

Thanks.