Hector Bravo UNHINGED
Official Hector Bravo Podcast
Hector Bravo UNHINGED
Sal Becerra - From Gang Life to Redemption and Hope
Imagine being entrenched in gang culture from a young age, with influences pulling you deeper into a life of crime. That was the reality for Sal Becerra, a former Logan Heights gang member, whose story of redemption is nothing short of miraculous. Our conversation with Sal uncovers his early life in a neighborhood where the gang was both a family and a way of life. He shares the critical moments that steered him towards a path many never escape, vividly describing the impact of a fractured family and life-defining events that led to a life sentence in prison.
Once incarcerated, Sal's journey is marked by experiences that would break many, yet he found the strength to transform himself. He opens up about the complex emotions and interactions within the county jail and state prisons, including the challenging dynamics and racial tensions. Sal’s unique perspective on prison life offers a gritty look at survival and adaptation, but it's his spiritual awakening that truly altered his course. Amidst the toughest conditions, a newfound faith became his beacon, guiding him through the darkest times and eventually leading to his release.
Reentering society after years behind bars presents its own set of challenges, and Sal doesn't shy away from discussing them. He talks about the struggles of shaking off the prison mentality and adapting to the world outside, where the pace is overwhelming and forgiveness isn't easily granted. Sal’s determination to give back and inspire change in others is the heartbeat of his story. His message of resilience and hope is one that resonates far beyond his personal narrative, serving as an inspiring testament to the power of choice and transformation.
Hector Bravo. Unhinged Chaos is now in session. Logan Heights gang member, former lifer, who has transformed his life and paroled a year ago what's up, dude, how you doing man?
Speaker 2:I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Cool. Why don't you state your name for everybody and tell us where you grew up at dude?
Speaker 2:So my name is Sal Becerra. I grew up in Southeast San Diego, Logan Heights.
Speaker 1:Southeast, san Diego, logan Heights. Bro, has Logan Heights changed from back then to how it is now? Oh yeah, absolutely. We're going to dive into how it was back then, bro, because I remember what Chicano Park is right there. Right, how was that? Was that where the gang members used to gather?
Speaker 2:It was a. I mean, come on, that's the mecca right there, you know, for everybody in Logan Heights Culturally, you know.
Speaker 1:So yes, Were gangs a big part back then when you were growing up.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, absolutely. That's where I got my the foundation. You know my belief system. That's where it came from.
Speaker 1:Was that because family members were involved in the gang?
Speaker 2:So I know it's. You know, you hear it a lot. You know I was born in the gang. So I know, uh, it's you know, you hear it a lot. You know I was born into the gang, yeah, um, and that's basically what happened. You know, I was born into a setting, into a family full of gang members, um, starting with my grandmother, uh, my dad, my mom, my uncles, so that's, that's, that's exactly what I grew into so logan heights dude is a pretty notorious gang, especially for san diego, especially with all the stuff that happened south of the border in mexico during that time frame.
Speaker 1:And, like I was telling you, I've done my research, man. Is there different, what do you call it? Clicks, subsets to logan heights? Yes, you can give me approximately how many there are.
Speaker 2:Off the top of my head, I could probably say four or five of them.
Speaker 1:Four or five, and what do you guys refer to those? As Cliques or different sets?
Speaker 2:What do you guys call it?
Speaker 1:It's the same gang, different cliques, same gang, different cliques, but it's all Logan, but it's all Logan. Red Steps, treinta, treinta. And who were the rivals of uh logan heights?
Speaker 2:uh shell town, sherman market. National city.
Speaker 1:National city esco diablos, or you guys, didn't go that far north. Everybody was that, you know yeah, and growing up there in a gang indoctrinated family members, uh, did you guys tend to? And again, dude, I'm asking you because I'm legitimately interested did you guys just hang out locally or did you guys venture out into other territories?
Speaker 2:so me myself, I was more locally. Um again, I was a kid, you know I can't go nowhere, uh, past block, you know. So I stayed locally. As far as my relatives and uncles and stuff like that, they would go down south, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you told me that your family members were involved in a major incident that happened down south man involving a cardinal yes, and then he got arrested over here on this side of the state of the poster down there yes, um, how did you? How did you perceive that as a youngster? Was it? Was it a big deal? Was it a major blow to the family, to the gang? How was that? Was or was it kind of like normal program?
Speaker 2:So that was our uncle. You know, he was, uh, he was everything in our family. You know, um, I guess you could consider him as a god in our family. I would say that, you know, well respected, well known, that's what we looked up to, you know. So, absolutely, it was a big blow. It was a big blow to the family. I think, uh, honestly, um, after that, the family kind of just fell apart really yeah, so he was kind of the one holding it together.
Speaker 1:Absolutely now was he, if you from your memory? Was he making um frequent trips up and down, or was he kind of just hanging out down there down south?
Speaker 2:From what I remember, you know keep in mind, I was a kid, you know Right, I would see him often and you know there was times where he was gone for quite some time, you know.
Speaker 1:Were you ever concerned for his safety?
Speaker 2:Honestly, like I've mentioned, you know he was a god to me. You know there's nothing that could happen to him.
Speaker 1:Were you ever concerned for your own safety? No, no, no. At that time frame were you guys engaging in criminal behavior, criminal activities in that, in that era.
Speaker 2:So that era I would say that was in my era. That was my uncles and my dad's generation, Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Let's fast forward to when you. How old were you when you started kicking it up a few notches, man, and you started making a name for yourself and started getting involved? I'd say about 14 years old, 14. And that puts us at what year time frame? Because I'm trying to put things in perspective.
Speaker 2:I was born in 87. What that's 2000?
Speaker 1:2000s, 2000s. So while we were fucking around in Iraq, you were fucking around over here in.
Speaker 2:Logan.
Speaker 1:Heights man Yep, did you dodge a lot of uh, did you? Did you have a lot of near calls, near misses with the law, with enemies, anything like that? A lot of close calls.
Speaker 2:So the way that I was brought up and the way that my uncles were. I was very aggressive, I was very violent, right. So I made sure that we were never messed with and if you were to mess with us then there would be an issue. So that was the reputation of the family. Yeah, Like, don't do it because you're gonna have hell to pay right.
Speaker 1:and I just continued that on was there numerous families within logan heights, that kind of like? Was that like the thing like different family names?
Speaker 2:yeah, um, and you were representing yours in a sense, yes, but more the neighborhood. You know, it was more like I'm representing a neighborhood and because of who I'm related to. It lands on my lap and I have no other choice, because I know nothing else, but to carry that on.
Speaker 1:You said you eventually found yourself. Where was? Was it San Bernardino or Riverside?
Speaker 2:so my dad moved us out to Lake Elsinore. Okay, um, and that's when it just got worse, did?
Speaker 1:it. Yeah, how did it get worse? Isn't there a lot of woods in Lake Elsinore? So yeah, you guys were beefing with the woods or what that's.
Speaker 2:So initially we moved out there. My dad wanted to get us out the neighborhood. He knew that it was getting a lot worse and that just it made me angry. I didn't want to leave San Diego, I didn't want to leave my neighborhood, you know, and I get there and same thing. It's just. It's amazing how it's just there's ghettos everywhere. You know Right, there's neighborhoods everywhere.
Speaker 1:But how did you feel not? Did you know, not knowing anybody? I mean, you didn't have your homies that you had back home.
Speaker 2:No, no, but I still, I still. It was within me.
Speaker 1:It was within you to maneuver.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, you know, I was, I was. I'm the oldest brother of my brothers, you know. So I've always been the protector. No matter where we go, we're going to be okay, just like my uncles did it for us. Wherever we go, you guys are going to be okay. So when we got to Lake Elsinore, I always knew I'm going to be all right. Did you start getting into trouble right away?
Speaker 1:Yes, we got enrolled into school. Seeing the gang members there where are?
Speaker 2:you from? Were there mexican gangs in lake elsinore? Yeah, yes, there is I'm not.
Speaker 1:I wasn't even aware of that man yeah, there's two of them.
Speaker 2:There's uh, elsinore young classics and elsinore vato locos never even knew that dude, yeah, and then you got your woods for sure absolutely huh yeah they were there they were rolling deep.
Speaker 1:They're there. Were they outnumbering? You guys, uh, in a sense in a sense so after there you were in lake alcenor. Where did you end up moving after that?
Speaker 2:uh to moreno valley damn dude, you just kept moving all over the place, huh yeah, well, I was just causing too much, too much uh problems for my dad, honestly so they just probably thought by relocating you it was solved the problem right, and you were just probably pissed off that you were just fucking getting bounced around yeah, in a sense yeah so the day of your crime that landed you in prison, or can you speak on that?
Speaker 1:yeah, all right. What happened there? What transpired so?
Speaker 2:we ended up being friends with a group of other people, uh and we had a falling out. We had a falling out two alphas basically, you know and uh gang shootings, fights, and it uh eventually led up to me um attempting to murder them you being from logan heights, what gang were you representing as you were moving around all these places?
Speaker 1:logan heights was there. That. Was that ever an issue to the locals there?
Speaker 2:not necessarily at the time when I moved out there. Um, there was never an issue with people from san diego, it was more la. So the locals there had issues with people from los angeles. Um, I never had that issue?
Speaker 1:were you still in contact with your homies back from logan heights? Yes, yes, whatever it was at that time Cell phones, fucking computers, myspace, probably MySpace. Right, I would travel, you would travel, yeah, so you were moving around, yeah, a fucking youngster all over the place, everywhere, until, ultimately, you got arrested. Right, did they arrest you that night? Or one of those things they show on first 48 hours and they start people, start telling on people and they bring you in.
Speaker 2:How did that? So I got arrested. I believe it was like two days later. Two days later, two days later, um, they arrested my brother. The same day they arrested my dad, because we have the same name.
Speaker 1:They gave me real quick. Was it one of those task force type of looking for you?
Speaker 2:yeah, so they raided the house. That's basically what they did. Obviously, you know, we were once friends, we had a falling out, so our families knew each other.
Speaker 1:So they knew exactly who it was. Were you, your brother and your dad at the same location when you guys?
Speaker 2:all got taken down, so I ended up fleeing back down to san diego. Okay, I went back down to san diego and um went to my grandma's house were they on to you?
Speaker 1:were they trailing you at that time?
Speaker 2:I knew they were uh, because they had released my dad once they realized that he wasn't me and he said they're, they're looking for you but you kind of already maybe knew that they were going to be looking for you, oh yeah, absolutely. That's why I half fled. I already knew my little brother was incarcerated.
Speaker 1:So your brother ended up getting jammed up, getting arrested and getting incarcerated. Yes, you're still on the run. You go to San Diego. Did it cross your mind to go a little bit more South into Mexico? I thought about it, you thought about it. What discouraged you from?
Speaker 2:doing that, knowing that my brother was in jail.
Speaker 1:Fuck, dude, that's like the movie fucking Boondock Saints. Man, the two brothers. They were Irish, though, so because you knew your brother got locked up and you were like man, I can't fucking bail on him.
Speaker 2:No, he's my brother, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So what was your game plan? Hang out until you got caught.
Speaker 2:No, I was actually going to turn myself in To who?
Speaker 1:To police? To which agency, down here or up?
Speaker 2:there Well. So I had told my dad. I specifically spoke to my dad. I said okay. So they locked him up, they're not letting him go, they're like. No, I said okay, I'll turn myself in.
Speaker 1:Okay, shit dude. At that time you didn't know what they were booking him for, your brother.
Speaker 2:So we ultimately thought that it was a murder case. Okay, we thought that I had killed someone, right? But again, I wasn't going to leave my brother in jail alone. I'm the one that did it, fuck dude.
Speaker 1:So did you ultimately turn yourself in.
Speaker 2:The day that I was going to turn myself in, they raided my grandma's house bro.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, was that the first time you had ever been raided?
Speaker 2:no, no, you've had cops kicking your fucking door before, and so the first time we were raided was back in 90 something, when that happened with my uncle in logan heights.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now, man, it's getting juicy, I'm telling you so like, uh, let's talk about raids, bro, because you know, raids have always been interesting. You always see them all stacked up in a van, fucking spotty armor guns kicking indoors and shit dude throwing fucking stun grenades. Would they ever hit? Growing up in logan were there a lot of raids where they were hitting the blocks after, or was it more like I'm gonna hit this dope house, or just you know what?
Speaker 2:uh, from my recollection I remember us getting raided um and I was, on behalf of that incident, uh-huh um, but I don't remember. I think maybe one other time I remember seeing it, but I stayed right there off ard so it was like a cul-de-sac, so I didn't really leave too much, you know.
Speaker 1:If cars that you didn't recognize drove into that cul-de-sac and you and your homies were out at night, oh, they wouldn't, they wouldn't.
Speaker 2:No, no, they wouldn't even know.
Speaker 1:Would you inquire as to who the fuck is this vehicle?
Speaker 2:If you were on that time, when I was growing up there, if you were on that street, there was a reason why there was no accidental, you know turn this way. Man dude.
Speaker 1:Where were you at inside your grandma's house when they raided the pad?
Speaker 2:I was in the living room. I was in the living room and it just happened so fast, like I didn't even hear the helicopter, fucking helicopter dude. Yeah, I didn't even hear the helicopter or anything, and I was just like like when it was all said and done and we're all like, whoa, you know what's going on. I didn't know what was going on did.
Speaker 1:You did a part of you feel bad because it was your grandma's pad.
Speaker 2:No, Not bad, maybe at the time, maybe a little afraid, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, you brought heat to the pad. No, no, it wasn't. Oh, you're talking about when I was arrested, when you got arrested, when they raided your pad, dude. At that time I was Just running them up. Yeah, it's like it's part of it. You guys know what it is. You know, that was my train of thought at the time. Like you guys raised me.
Speaker 1:So did they end up transporting you to yes, to Temecula?
Speaker 2:To Temecula, and then they did the switch off.
Speaker 1:Where.
Speaker 2:In the freeway, on the side of the freeway.
Speaker 1:Oh shit, man. What was going through your mind when you got gaffled up? Dude? You thought you were going away for murder.
Speaker 2:So prior to it's crazy, like two days prior to me committing this crime, I was sitting on my bed looking out my window and I was like I'm tired, I'm done, you know, like something's got to happen. I was trying to go to uh, I was actually going to UEI for business class. Just trying it out, you know, I was chilling at home. Commercial came on TV. Hey, you sitting on the couch. Yeah, you know. So I, I did that and and decided you know, maybe, and give me like a glimpse of of couch, yeah, you know. So I, I did that and and decided you know, maybe, and give me like a glimpse of of hope. You know, um, but I just knew something was going to happen, I just knew it. So when I got arrested, I was just like okay, this is it. You know, this is what I felt a couple days ago were you looking forward to going to prison?
Speaker 1:I know a lot of gang members say hey, that's where I get to prove myself, that's where I get to meet, you know, the older fellas.
Speaker 2:I wish I still had because, you know, when we were young we used to rap karaoke machine, you know, and it's crazy because once my uncle got sentenced I used to always say I was going to get that sentence too. And I used to always say I was going to get that sentence too and I used to rap about it. You know, make my little Logan raps and rap about it. And it came to happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, literally Literally. What jail did you get housed at?
Speaker 2:So when I was arrested, they housed me at uh southwest and uh marietta in marietta.
Speaker 1:Yeah damn, bro, in there was there gang members from la san diego riverside. Yeah, so there was, yes, like a melting pot. Was that an issue there in county or was everybody kind of running the same program?
Speaker 2:No, because you know, once you hit the county jail, it's you know you fall in line program time.
Speaker 1:How was that experience for you man? I would imagine you weren't. You weren't befriending many people from LA at that time.
Speaker 2:So I never really had an issue myself with, like you know, LA or anything like that, but I just remember, you know I was on the streets for so long causing havoc and you know, doing all this crazy stuff, and you just think you're just big old tough guy, you know.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And then you get locked up and it's program time and it's time to do burpees, right? I remember I couldn't do not one push-up really, and I was like wow, and it was check man exactly, and it dawned on me like it's time to man up yeah, was the goal when you were fucking around in Logan to make money, create violence, havoc or all of the above.
Speaker 2:Just the reputation, reputation, reputation. I didn't have the mindset, oh, I want to make money, even though at times I would do things to make money. It was more the reputation, it was a big reputation. To me, it was big shoes to fill. You know how is it that I'm related to these people, that I come from this bloodline and I'm not furthering it?
Speaker 1:Damn dude. So you felt that responsibility, you felt that weight that you had to carry on the name. Yes. So you felt that responsibility, you felt that weight that you had to carry on the name Program time. You couldn't do one push-up. Are you sizing other dudes up? Are you now starting to evolve? Right, your criminality jail I'm about to hit fucking prison. Are you growing as a criminal?
Speaker 2:yes, I'm growing in the sense that these are different dynamics. Don't have a gun here, correct, um, it's time to work out right and uh make a knife if I have to what was your take on the seals of guards?
Speaker 1:were you were you were you aware of them or you kind of just disregarded them?
Speaker 2:I really didn't pay too much. Uh mind to them. I was more focused on in-house uh-huh, um, I guess the only times that I would have an issue is when we would have to get strip searched, and that was just.
Speaker 1:You know, maybe there was one ceo doing a little too much, sometimes too much, you know, it's just, you know the. Maybe there was one CEO doing a little too much sometimes man A little too much.
Speaker 2:you know it's just. You know the whole process of being straight. I understand why they do it, why it's done, but it does something to you. You know it breaks you down. You know it breaks you down and in those moments you realize like you're not in control. You know.
Speaker 1:Was there racial tensions, racial wars, mostly with the blacks, with the blacks? Were there a lot of blacks there, numbers-wise? Yes, were they pretty even? Numbers Pretty even. Did you guys ever crack it off with them? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Was it a dorm setting cells day room? What did that setting look?
Speaker 2:like. So it was a day room, day room setting. You got the cells and then you come out to the dayroom.
Speaker 1:Is that where the majority of the people that were facing the more serious crimes housed?
Speaker 2:You know what? They had them everywhere. They did have like different pods that they housed people that have a history of being in prison. I eventually found myself there. So if you get in trouble and you continue doing things, though, and eventually put you right there like you belong over here with these dudes, you know you're doing too much, basically was?
Speaker 1:was there a program set already when you touch down there?
Speaker 1:oh yeah yeah, all right, because I hear that some, some places you know it's fucking ran loosely or not ran at all. So there was already something in place. Yeah for sure. How long were you in jail before you went to a state prison? Three years, fucking three years, dude, damn, because I think what did it used to be used to be only one year, and then all the propositions changed so riverside county had the highest conviction rate I believe it was like 98%, and they would not budge.
Speaker 2:And then we had the district attorney, who was just any gang case automatic life sentences.
Speaker 1:So they hit you with a gun enhancement? I'm assuming yes. They hit you with a gang enhancement? I'm assuming yes. And then, ultimately, what were you convicted of?
Speaker 2:So I was convicted of shooting at an occupied vehicle with a gang enhancement and assault with a deadly weapon, which gave you how much so the shooting at an occupied vehicle with the gang enhancement is an automatic life sentence. It's an automatic 15 to life.
Speaker 1:God damn dude, Did they offer you a plea deal? They did. Did you take it?
Speaker 2:So interesting story, right? I haven't talked to my brother about this. They offered my brother 15 years two strikes. They offered me 22 years, two strikes. Keep in mind my brother was innocent. You know, he just drove by by the crime scene. He wasn't in the vehicle with me, with your brother in Marietta or somewhere else he was in Juvenile Hall, marietta Juvenile Hall.
Speaker 1:Did you at that time, did you have any contact with your brother?
Speaker 2:When we would go to court because he was tried as an adult.
Speaker 1:Were you feeling bad at the time?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely so. Shit, man. They offered your brother. What did you say? They offered him 15 years two strikes you.
Speaker 2:22 years, two strikes 22 years, two strikes. At the end of it all what happened was they approved his sentence, his deal, but mine was not approved. So they wanted him to sign and then tell me all yours didn't get approved, so you have to go to trial. Thankfully he didn't sign, because I'd say like about not even a month later he was found not guilty on all charges he was found not guilty.
Speaker 1:Now, from your experience I mean from your experience did you feel that the cops were? They were just trying to get anybody, and everybody, considering the guy, pulled your brother up so I had.
Speaker 2:I never made a statement Right, but during the whole process of going to court I made it very clear that I committed the crime.
Speaker 1:So you never made a statement. However, what were you putting an emphasis like hey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I was just obnoxious and rude in the courtroom, like you guys know, I did it. You know why you guys have my brother here and they actually found him not guilty On all charges.
Speaker 1:So a jury found him not guilty, yes, and how did you feel after you realized he was good?
Speaker 2:Oh man it was After. You know it was. It was. I was grateful, I was grateful, you know.
Speaker 1:It sounds to me you were more concerned about him than yourself.
Speaker 2:Yes, for sure, it's my little brother.
Speaker 1:That's what's up, dude. I don't have a brother. You know what I mean, but I think if I had a brother I would probably be the same way. Yeah, brother, you know I mean, but I think if I had a brother I would probably be the same way. Yeah, um, so now that he's off the hook, it's you're just focusing on yourself now. Fuck, I just got now. When they read you, they convicted it. I mean, what did you think when they said they were sentencing you to life in prison?
Speaker 2:so initially I got sentenced I'm sorry they read the the charges that I was convicted of and I was like like, okay, I could do that, that's not a problem. Went back to the cell. I was like I'm good. Got on the phone and I called my wife and she was crying. I'm like what's wrong? She's like babe, you're still getting life. I'm like, no, this charges don't carry life. What are you talking about? She's like the gang enhancement. I'm like what? She's like call your lawyer. So I hung up, called the lawyer. She's like yeah, you're still. You're gonna be sentenced to life.
Speaker 1:I'm like, wow so from you being around the block literally. How easy is it to get a gang enhancement slapped onto a case? Do you just have to be a member of the gang? Do you have to yell out this is for Logan. Bam, bam, bam. You have to be wearing colors. How easy is it? Or what are the criteria?
Speaker 2:So I had been a documented gang member since juvenile hall, damn. So that has always been on me. So because I'm a documented gang member, right, anything that I do benefits the reputation of the gang gang enhancement and that's a wrap, man, and that's over.
Speaker 1:So then, where did you go to reception at, uh, current valley? North current fuck, they just killed, fucking two people there recently this past week. Yeah, um, that was reception. Here you are man, you're fucking big boy, fucking pants on now. Yeah, when you hit state prison, what was your? What was your reaction? Or were you kind of already like seasoned because of county jail?
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I was already. I was ready, for some reason, I believe, that I was going to get family visits, I don't know why. And lifers didn't get family visits, you know Right. But so I was excited about that part. I was excited keeping mine for three years. I haven't hugged my wife, I haven't hugged my son, I haven't hugged my wife haven't hugged my son, haven't hugged no one, you know. So I wanted those visits, I wanted to hug them, and that's what I was looking forward to.
Speaker 1:So you had a wife and you had a son. Dude, how much thought process were you giving them throughout this? Were you thinking like fuck, I'm never going to see him again? Or that didn't really play into your thought process.
Speaker 2:I was so desensitized and it was so normal that I just thought it was normal, like I really thought like this is just what we go through, this is us, this is where we come from, this is part of our life, you know.
Speaker 1:That's fucking crazy, dude, but I hear what you're saying. So you, were you anticipating um? Because I don't know your current marital status, you know, out of respect I'm not gonna ask, but were you thinking like this marriage is not gonna work or it is gonna work? Did you ever think that crossed your mind?
Speaker 2:honestly, where I grew up at is such a dark place right that I learned how to be optimistic. Okay, I don't know, I just that makes sense.
Speaker 1:So after North Kern, where did you go Right across the street? Where's that? Kern Valley, kern Valley, delano, level four, level four GP GP 180. 180. Killers Killer, kern valley, valley, delano, level four, level four gp gp 180 180. Killers, killer kern. And then how was that man?
Speaker 2:you go around, you start meeting people so I get there, they put me in the hole immediately. Why, what exactly? Right? I was like, why? Um, they didn't have room, so go to the hole. They put me in a cell with the, with the paisano, and he's all like, look, he ran the whole game. He's like, look, you'll be here for a while. As soon as it gets space, you'll go over there. If you go to this yard, that I work with the blacks if you go to this yard, you know. And so I was like okay, I'm here now. This, this, this is the real deal. You know, I'm in keller kern had you had?
Speaker 1:had you had heard of the different prisons prior to you going, I mean, like calipas, sentinella, the ones down south? Yes, you had heard about them. And how did you feel about being in kern? I mean, it's kind of fucking far away from San Diego.
Speaker 2:Well, I really didn't have a choice. You know, they give you like two options.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you don't have a choice, but how did you feel about being there particularly?
Speaker 2:I really didn't know too much of it. I was just glad that I didn't have to take a long bus ride.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'll just go right across the street, right? Yeah, so was there anything major that kicked off when you, when they after you, got housed, after the whole? Hey guys, consider becoming a patron, where you will get first exclusive dibs on the video before it airs to the public and you'll get to ask the guests special questions that you have in mind. So that's also another way to support the channel. Thank you, guys. Appreciate all of you keep pushing forward.
Speaker 2:Make sure you hit that link in description below so I get uh to the housing unit and uh, my celly tells me like, look, we're going at it with the blacks. The doors crack open. You know we're gonna go at it. Um, he asked me if I had my 128, and I had it, hooped, you know. So I gave him that. After a while we checked it, cleared it out, gave me a knife.
Speaker 1:You didn't have to hoop it, bro, you could have just put it in your legal paper.
Speaker 2:I didn't have it, we didn't have our property.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right.
Speaker 2:So they always say like hey, you're gonna go to a 180. Yeah, you know. Just, it's better to have it than not to have it, you know, because if you're waiting on the counselors no, I hear you so this was this time frame was when there was still lockdowns.
Speaker 1:right, was there? Were there lockdowns? Did you get to experience a fucking lengthy lockdown?
Speaker 2:Yes, how was that it was frustrating. Why is that? More because you know you're locked in a cell. You don't get what you got coming no packages, no canteen. It gets a little frustrating.
Speaker 1:Did you ever get the feeling of like claustrophobia, like the walls fucking closing in on you?
Speaker 2:I did it in Ironwood.
Speaker 1:You did or you didn't. I did in Ironwood, why?
Speaker 2:because it was hotter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it was a lot hotter, so you did get to experience other prisons. Yes, were you involved when you were in Kern Valley. When you were new to the system, did you start getting involved in things?
Speaker 2:So, being that I was like one of the youngest ones there, I just stayed very quiet, very observant, and people took a liking to me and, you know, I was taken under the wing Somehow. Someway I ended up, you know, with the big dogs and that's just how it was, you know. And for me in Kern Valley it was just more like chill, because everybody else was trying to prove a point and being all rowdy, like the younger ones that had came in. You know, versus me I'm just like super quiet did you observe a lot of violence there?
Speaker 1:oh yes, mostly same gangs on the same gang, same race on the same race, or everything uh, mostly, yeah, us taking out us. How do you feel about that? Were you concerned at any At that time, man? Were you seeing the forest for the trees? Did you see the big picture or were you just kind of fucking seeing?
Speaker 2:So I knew that there was an order of operation, I understood that this is how it operates in here, okay. And I just knew, knew, stay within the guidelines. You step outside these guidelines, you'll pay the consequences did you see people pay the consequences?
Speaker 1:absolutely? Absolutely and yeah, were you exposed to a whole? Now let a whole nother level of violence as opposed to now. You're seeing individuals stab the shit out of other people up close and personal fucking blood everywhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah um, I remember my first, my first yard there, my first actual after we come off of lockdown. Everything got resolved. My first yard and um, I see uh, samoans, and these dudes look like giants, they're fucking huge, they're huge. And they, uh, they stabbed some dude right in front of me and, um, I got stuck's going off. Everybody hit the pavement and I'm just standing there like shocked and everyone's yelling at me get down, get down. And that's when I see my first stabbing. I was like wow, like this is straight gladiator stuff.
Speaker 1:That's pretty vicious man. For people that haven't seen it, it's pretty fucking vicious. Yeah, yeah, after Kern Valley, where'd you go after that Calipat? God damn bro, you went to Calipat, mm-hmm, was that a little different than fucking Kern Valley?
Speaker 2:It was. It was. I kept hearing things about Calipat, you know, but honestly, my experience in Calipat wasn't. I think Kern Valley was more dangerous, even though we did have our attendance in Calipat. I think Kern, because you feel it, kern Valley, there's something about that place, you just Elaborate on what you feel while you're there.
Speaker 2:It's, there's a vibe, there's a spirit there, there's I don't know what to call it, but it's just, you sense it tension, tension, the danger, the, the unknown, you know is that you being a former inmate of that with the other races, with your own people or in general? So the the crazy thing is I was never afraid for other races. I was never afraid of being hurt by another race. I was always more cautious of my own race, of the politics of the backstabbings.
Speaker 1:I totally understand what you're saying, dude, totally understand. And you're saying that because of that, there at that prison, that's how it felt there. Oh yeah, you think maybe Calipat felt a little bit different because the program ran a little different.
Speaker 2:Calipat people were more focused on. They had their priorities different.
Speaker 1:I would say that at what point in your incarceration did you decide you were going to change as an individual in calipat, at calipat? How did you have that epiphany, or what did that look like?
Speaker 2:so calipat, throughout this whole process of me being incarcerated, I would say the way that I kind of moved through there it's, at one point I would say I became like the dope man. Right, I was the plug, never used nothing, just here, boom, take it, leave me alone, right? And in Calipat, on my way to go, do that. You know my visits didn't show up. So you know Calipat's hot. My neighbor tells me to go to the church. They have ice, they got the AC in there, and I don't know if you're familiar with Calipat, but once they put you in there, they lock the door and they leave you in there. And, yeah, I heard a sermon and it just changed my life. It literally just like it just anything belief that I had. I mean, it took, like I want to say, two months, but so you were expecting to hit during a visit.
Speaker 1:Your visitor didn't show up, and then where did they put you? In the church. In the church. How come they put you in the church.
Speaker 2:So it was either going to be. I was already in my blues, you were in your blues, ready to go. You know, shower down already everything. And instead of mandatory yard, the neighbors just said, hey, just go to the church. You know, just go, chill out right there until yard's over.
Speaker 1:I said okay, I'll do that. Do you think, looking back in hindsight, that was like a divine intervention?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, because when I walked in there, the message that was given he said what if I told you that what you believe to be true is false and what you believe to be false is actually true? What if I can show you in plain daylight, what would you do then? And he started naming things off. Like you say you care about your people, but you're killing them off by giving them drugs. You say you don't believe in this stuff, but you're over here and you're putting your family in danger what yard was this?
Speaker 2:uh, this was.
Speaker 1:I was on a yard, this is b yard and you said it took a couple months for it to resonate for you to. You didn't make a decision right away.
Speaker 2:I did not. I did not make a decision right away. However, I could not sleep. It was just in my conscience, it was in my mind and it was like I knew the truth. I'm telling you, I really believed what I believed. I believed that this was normal. I was so desensitized that I did believe it and just now, having this information, I just felt like I know the truth. Now it's like you know when you know, you know, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, once you see it, you can't unsee it Exactly. Did that take the fun out of what you were doing before?
Speaker 2:Yes, because at that point I didn't have the passion for it anymore, and that's when I knew like, but you?
Speaker 1:were still a lifer. Yes, at that time, had they started passing new laws yet, or no, or no? So you were still a lifer In your head. You weren't going home, nobody was going home. But this is ultimately. You decided to make a change. Yes, what?
Speaker 2:did that change look like? So it was one of the hardest things that I had to do while incarcerated. I had to write the homies at one time and just let them know like look guys, I don't know what happened. I stepped into this church and I'm not the same. I'm going to give my life to God and I hope you guys respect that and went out to yard and I didn't know what was going to happen. I didn't know the repercussions. I just knew that for me, god had revealed himself to me and that was enough.
Speaker 1:Did they hit you? No, oh, that's a good fucking thing, man.
Speaker 2:Did they accept your kite?
Speaker 1:Some did and some didn't. Ultimately, I'm just assuming that they weren't cool with it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely not, but they had to respect it.
Speaker 1:But did you stay there or did you go to another yard? No, I stayed there. You stayed there. Mm-hmm, Were you asked to participate still so?
Speaker 2:although you're a Christian, although you give your life to God and you follow God, there's still, you know, you're still obligated to jump when there's riots.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:If you're respected and they know that you know you're sincere they won't ask you to do something you know that you shouldn't be, doing Plus. They don't want you in their business like that. You know Right.
Speaker 1:So now we're moving forward. You've had this divine intervention. You've kind of I'm actually dude, I'm actually surprised you let the fucking homies know, because that's a risky move, bro. That's kind of a dangerous thing to do.
Speaker 2:It was. It was especially at Calipatat it's almost reckless dude especially at calipat. But I was that bold, I was that convinced that. What I believe now, what was revealed to me, I was now convinced that this was the truth dude.
Speaker 1:So did you have to unlearn everything you learned growing up? Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I still had mannerisms um beliefs that I had to start training myself um and just kind of telling myself like that that's not normal, you know.
Speaker 1:Now, what were you using as resources? Were you using books reading? Were you using? Was there classes that you were partaking in?
Speaker 2:At that time there wasn't classes, wasn't a thing, I think the only thing they had was AANA. So it wasn't as big thing as it is today, right, but just church, church. They had an amazing library at the church and just read the Bible and you know, just just seeked, so you went all in on faith in church at Calipet.
Speaker 1:All in Did that decision save your life.
Speaker 2:I'm home from a life sentence.
Speaker 1:Do you believe that because you found God and God found you. That's the reason why you're home now? Absolutely. I want you to explain to the viewers some struggles or setbacks that you experienced while you're trying to better yourself as a man in prison. Like what did those little setbacks look like?
Speaker 2:I'm being outcasted, right being outcasted and, in a sense, wanting to prove yourself back into the fold. To prove yourself back into the fold, but having the understanding that there's a greater purpose, even though it doesn't exist right now, in the present time. It's hard, you know. It's hard because your heart's still there, but it was wrong. So I had to transform that, change that and chip away at it, and that was one of the hardest things to do.
Speaker 1:How big was your ego before that to do? How big was your ego before that? You know what I mean by ego. Yeah, like, like ego. Like, like you said, I gotta prove myself right. It's like you, you want to do better, but there's still that kind of like that fucking yeah, devil on your shoulder and you know I I carry that today right, we all do.
Speaker 2:You know. That's the thing, that sometimes we feel that, hey, we'll never have to deal with that ever again absolutely. Yeah, you're right, dude, and it's just there you know and yeah, that's you know, that's that's that person, that's that other side of you, the the that you just have to say, hey, we're not like that, no more.
Speaker 1:Right, we don't do that, no more when did you first hear about um wait a minute, did you what? What law did you ultimately get released under?
Speaker 2:so ultimately, I didn't benefit from none of them even though the one under 26 or anything like that. So I did fall under that category, but I had already served out my 15 years, so I had 15 to life. So because I had 15 to life that made me eligible for parole, I had an 18 year to life sentence, but on my 15th year I would be eligible for parole.
Speaker 1:And how many times during your incarceration did you attend a parole, hearing one, one and one and done, and that was a wrap, one and done. You know. I interviewed somebody else that had same similar experience. Man, um, when was that time frame? Or what did it look like when you heard rumors or or hope hey, this, this homie's going home. This dude has all day and he got a fucking date when. What did that look like?
Speaker 2:so then I was transferred to, uh, ironwood. Ironwood uh, I started hearing about this guy named scott bunnick yeah, I know who he is and, um, all these amazing things that he's doing the arc coalition, right arc. So as I start hearing this, I'm just like wow, like is this really true? Are people really going to go home? And there are people that benefited off the I think it was sb260, and they went home. And they were. I was on the yard with them and I was like what so? That's when I started seeing a lot of lifers go home and I was like what?
Speaker 1:So that's when I started seeing a lot of lifers go home. Did you get a glimpse of hope at that point? I did. Did you think you were going to be one of those individuals? Yes, sir, or you didn't want to get your hopes up, were you?
Speaker 2:still kind of on the fence. So the crazy thing is, I was super hopeful right, but I started noticing right before board. I started to self-destruct. Ooh, talk about that, dude, the understanding of the past, of not wanting to fail. So you start to self-destruct. I'd rather destroy this myself right now, knowingly, instead of giving my all, my best, my change, only to say that my change is not good enough Self-sabotaging, self-sabotaging.
Speaker 1:Now you said you began to self-sabotage, self-destruct, but did that mess you up in any way? Did that have an effect at all?
Speaker 2:By the grace of God, it didn't. That's good, dude.
Speaker 1:By the grace of God, it didn't. Now, during this time frame, did you have hope? Did you have aspirations to do anything? When you got out of prison, were you like man? I'm never going to look back. I'm not going to go back to the neighborhood. I'm going to get a job.
Speaker 2:I'm going so throughout my whole time being incarcerated, um, my brother, which was my co-defendant, he, uh, he was always moving out here in the world, you know. So he would send me pictures, write me letters and that always kept me like hungry and excited, excited about life, you know. And then I started to see him change and I started to see him change and I started to see him, you know, talk different, look different, and he was just basically my little brother, became the big brother and became the role model. Damn, and he kept me up to date. He definitely kept me up to date. Did you parole from Ironwood? No, so from Ironwood, I was transferred to CMC West.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that's right. You did tell me before this that you ended up in CMC West man. You just fucking took a tour of all California. Yeah, basically. Well at least the weather was nice in CMC. I tell you what.
Speaker 2:I had a thought If I don't go home, at least the weather was nice to cmc. Oh, I tell you what I had a thought if I don't go home, at least I'll die here hey, how did you experience a summer in calipan, ironwood?
Speaker 1:oh yeah, it's hot as fuck. Huh, super hot, um, so you get to cmc. It's a different time frame. The department has already changed. Yards are getting mixed. You have hope that you're going home. So were you just chilling? Were you just posted there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was just programming, I was basically doing classes.
Speaker 1:Is that level?
Speaker 2:two.
Speaker 1:Level two. Is that a level two? Non-designated, non-designated, so let's talk about that. Man was there, I know. I asked you when you were in calipa. You said all they had was aa and na, which is true. When you got to cmc, did they have more programs?
Speaker 2:they had everything you can think of college, different colleges. They had a anger management, gang, anonymous domestic violence, everything, every class you can think of. They had it.
Speaker 1:Are those classes beneficial to inmates?
Speaker 2:Those classes are run by inmates. Oh, they're run by inmates, but are they beneficial? Absolutely so. This is what we do. I'm not 100% sure of other prisons, but I know that in the majority of the prisons we formulate these curriculums, put them together, have our families send us books. We formulate these curriculums and we teach them. We ask the LT hey, lt, do you think we can have the child hall Right and we teach these curriculums and hoping that they have the parenting classes for the dads yes, um, and at that time were you just taking advantage, dude, soaking it all in?
Speaker 2:yes, at that time I was, I was all for education how long were you at cmc for I? Want to say about two years, three years, damn dude, so you were posted up at theseC for I want to say about two years three years, Damn dude.
Speaker 1:So you were posted up at these prisons for a little bit of time. You started in Kern Valley rocking and rolling man Big-ass Simone, stabbing the shit out of each other. You go to Calipat you were supposed to hit and visiting you didn't Ironwood, now CMC. When did you get word that you were going to go to board CMC? When did you get word?
Speaker 2:that you were going to go to board CMC.
Speaker 1:Who told you Counselor, the counselor.
Speaker 2:Counselor called me in and says, hey, you're going to board, which I already kind of knew just calculating the time, and I was just like this is bad timing. Why? Because they were mixing up the yards.
Speaker 1:Had that yard been mixed yet or not yet Not yet. Did you hear from other people that yards were getting mixed?
Speaker 2:Oh, we knew. We knew what was going on throughout the whole system.
Speaker 1:And from a former inmate's perspective. You're locked up, you're property of the state and you're hearing oh, they're about to mix us with our enemies. What's going through your head, dude? What's your thought process?
Speaker 2:I'm not going home. My chance is out the door. It's done Everything.
Speaker 1:I going home, my chance is out the door. It's done. Everything I work for is done. Now it's easy for somebody that has no idea about prison life to say, well, can't they just not fight and get along? What do you have to say to that?
Speaker 2:yes, you can.
Speaker 1:That is a choice, but you risk being being hurt, kind of like you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't exactly. And the environment breeds that.
Speaker 2:And we're not talking about just fistfights. We're talking about your life, correct, talking about you know, my wife losing her husband, my son losing his dad. Were you ever involved in the mixing, so when they first. So the thing was it was better for you to be established at a prison that's not mixed yet than to go to a prison and get mixed in because of the upper hand right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because we would walk you one by one into a fucking dorm and you would get stomped out by 20 dudes Exactly, and we'll get you and throw you in the hole and I've seen that.
Speaker 2:I've seen that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's exactly what was happening.
Speaker 2:And that broke my heart, just seeing people being brought into the dorm and you know I'm a Christian at this point Right to the dorm, and you know I'm a christian at this point, right you know. But I see the homies and you know it goes off, only for all of them to be, um, cuffed up, maced up, you know, only to be brought back again. And we're just like what are you guys doing? Why are you guys bringing these people back? Right, usually protocol is they go to the hole and it's over with. You know you won't see them again so I gotta tell you something, man.
Speaker 1:They, our higher-ups, didn't tell us that they were gonna do that either. Yeah, we were straight being told uncuff them, bring them back in. We were having the same thought, dude. It's pissing me off thinking about it. It's like, well, why are we doing this shit? Like what the fuck? Are you fucking serious? You know what I mean. Like yeah, it was a fucked up situation, dude, so were you. That was your concern. Like, oh fuck, I'm gonna get caught up in this wreck. Yeah, so what do you have to say about cdcr's push on rehabilitation?
Speaker 2:but at the same time, they are mixing enemies so I think I I think what they're trying to do is get the programmers that are actually wanting to go home separated from the people that don't want to go home, and in that process, we will see deaths. That sounds like a horrible idea, man. We will see deaths. That sounds like a horrible idea, man. We will see so many deaths, right, and we've seen them. You know, we've seen them, we've read about them, we've heard about them.
Speaker 1:And it's unfortunate. You know, yeah, it's a horrible idea, man, and I hear what you're saying. It's like, hey, we're're gonna sort out the ones that want to program and don't want to program, but the way that we're gonna sort them out is we're gonna allow them to kill each other and in the process you might lose.
Speaker 2:You know the people that are programming. You want to go home yeah, facts.
Speaker 1:So when you got granted parole how was that? That dude You're at the hearing Did they let you know then? And there you know what.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they let me know right then and there, and something that I struggled with my whole life, right. And when I went up there, the commissioner said Basura, you came in here, you're not perfect, but we were not expecting perfection. And I just I took those words and I was just like wow, I saw it like you're good enough to go home, You're good enough to come back into society. He's like you're granted, and I was just so grateful for that, you know.
Speaker 1:And you had already been down 15 years, 15 years. What did did your family members go pick you up?
Speaker 2:So eventually, yeah, because I have to wait, like I think, like 90 or 120 days after.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, how were those 90 or 120 days? Were you just like trying to stay out of the way so?
Speaker 2:there was, I was, you know, I was good. It was the last day that it got me. I couldn't sleep, and this is dorm areas, right, Dorms.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Dorm settings. And then the reality hits me. I'm leaving my friends. Right, I'm leaving. You know people that I haven't known forever, and that hurt. You know that hurt. And then I didn't want to leave. There was a part of me that I didn't want to go.
Speaker 1:I've heard that from former lifers that have paroled and they say the same thing, man, and, if you ask me, I think it's some type of form of survivor's guilt. You know what I mean? That you get to go home and they don't right and they even said that it it hit them when they were eating their first meal. When they got out, they're like man, look at all this fucking food the homies in there could be eating. Right, some of this. Did you experience that when you, when you got out? Yeah, I still do.
Speaker 2:Um, you know I miss them. You know there's sometimes where I I. I know it's crazy to say, but I'm like I miss prison you know I miss, uh, it's so fast out here.
Speaker 1:There's a lot going on out here and and there's just how would you define or explain the respect level on a level four gp yard compared to out here?
Speaker 2:well, yeah, I mean up up there on level four, it's.
Speaker 1:It's either you respect or you die, you know I think there'd be more respect out here in the streets if it was that same way, man, right, right, that's probably why people are out of pocket.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean for sure, and wild for sure. Um, so I hear you saying you miss that. And these are similarities between somebody who's been to war man and somebody. It's like once you get dive into a certain what it is, and I'm gonna tell you, man, you're tapping into your basic like prehistoric, like caveman, survival instinct days. Man, once you tap into that part of the brain, it's like kind of hard to see the world. Yeah, anyway, else, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Um, I I don't mean there'll be times where I'm driving a car and I wonder how I got to where I went to yeah I'm, I'm, I'm not even here. I'm here, but I'm not here, you know yeah I'm thinking about other stuff and I'm like well, I'm driving the car, like what are you doing?
Speaker 1:you know, and you've been home for how many years now? Going on three years, going on three years now. Have you continued the same um the same momentum of seeking self-help as you have while you were in there?
Speaker 2:I just saw a church church, yeah, I still do my church and Bible studies. That's good.
Speaker 1:That's good. Right now, do you help out other people?
Speaker 2:So I feed the homeless. Oh you do. You know we go out there and we feed the homeless, that type of stuff. But I'm hoping to kind of. You know it's hard because I'm establishing myself.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And the world moves so fast. I'm like it's already been three years right, and it's crazy because over here the time is so long, but in prison they remember me like it was just yesterday.
Speaker 1:You think people out here in society have a sense of entitlement?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, absolutely, Absolutely, and that just you know. I remember being at a gas station and some guy just went in there upset because the restroom was not, uh, usable, because it was drying out, and he just had a full meltdown and I was just like what is going on out here?
Speaker 1:yeah, dude, I, I mean, I fucking struggle that shit to this day, dude. Yeah, um, you have any last words you want to say to the viewers, or say a message out there for everybody to hear?
Speaker 2:I would just say that you know, look for that contrast. You know you want change. That's good, that's the desire you know. But you have to see what you want.
Speaker 2:You know, look for it. I think that's what helped out for me, you know. But you have to see what you want, you know, look for it. I think that's what helped out for me, you know, being able to see that contrast, and I think that's why I a lot of people would ask me what did you? Why didn't you lock it up? And I'm like I wanted to be on the yard as the light and show people like you can change. You don't have to continue to do that. You're choosing to do that. You can follow God. You can do things right. You can be correct and be respected and not get hurt, you know. So I would just say that man, just do what's right.
Speaker 1:I was going to say, man, it's because it's hard. It's it's hard, you know. You mentioned locking it up. It's like you can't even lock it up these days because the ceos won't let you, because they kind of did away with that.
Speaker 2:They did away with the s and y per the administration, right so that that's why I remember, uh, watching your, uh, your videos, and I used to tell people like I got out just in time. You did, dude, I got out just in time because it's, it's not a joke. It's not a joke, it's scary, it's um, it's it's life or death, you know. And it's like just imagine you being put as a civilian in a room full of lions, and if you survive, I'm going to put you back in there. Yeah, dude, and if you survive that, let's see if you survive a third time and your family doesn't know nothing about it. The only call they'll get is saying that hey, you're done. You know he died, we apologize. I don't even think they give an apology. I don't think so either, but I mean.
Speaker 1:Damn Well, dude, it was a pleasure having you on the show, bro, talking about growing up in Logan Heights, prison terms and then that transformation, dude. Hopefully and I know it's going to save other people's lives, bro, because people need to hear it from somebody that's been through it, dude, and you've definitely been through it. So there you guys have it, folks. Another banger. Thank you guys for joining. Make sure you hit that subscribe button. Thank you, love you. Keep pushing forward. You've been listening to Hector Bravo Unhinged. Follow for more.
