Hector Bravo UNHINGED
Official Hector Bravo Podcast
Hector Bravo UNHINGED
From Marine to ICE Agent: One Man's Journey
Caesar shares his remarkable journey from being born in Mexico to becoming a U.S. Marine and later an ICE agent, before ultimately retiring when faced with the COVID vaccine mandate that contradicted his personal convictions.
• Growing up poor and constantly moving throughout California shaped his quiet personality and strong work ethic
• Joined the Marine Corps at 18 despite initial hesitation and was stationed at Guantanamo Bay for his first assignment
• Witnessed the stark differences between military leadership and federal agency management throughout his career
• Started as a detention officer with INS after working security, eventually transitioning to ICE after 9/11
• Observed increasing workplace politics, favoritism, and declining standards of professionalism over his two decades of service
• Refused the COVID vaccine despite pressure and potential career consequences, choosing principles over his position
• Experienced significant mental health struggles after retiring, spending nearly a year bedridden before beginning recovery
• Cautions those entering federal service with idealistic motivations that they may face disillusionment if they expect the same values as military service
"If you go into federal law enforcement just as a job to make money, you're going to do good, but if you go in there because of national security, because of the Constitution, the country, you're going to be disappointed and then you're going to be miserable."
Hector Bravo unhinged chaos is now in session welcome back to our channels, warriors.
Speaker 3:We are still growing. Today. Another banger for you guys, man. I went out and I found me an OG veterano man from the imperial valley. But on the real, this man right here with the united states marine, former ice agent dude's been around the block. Man has a lot of knowledge and wisdom to share with us. We're going to dive into his story and we're going to find out how, ultimately, he retired from the ice department. What up, dude? Hey, what's up how was your drive up here?
Speaker 4:man from pure valley yeah, it was about two hours, no traffic it was good.
Speaker 3:So, uh, where were you born and raised? Dude?
Speaker 4:I was born in mexico, in sonora, and uh came over here when I was about two years old his name's caesar, by the way, if I failed to mention that yeah, uh, sonora, where's that at?
Speaker 3:hey guys consider becoming a patron, where you will get first exclusive dibs on the video before it airs to the public and you'll get to ask the guest special questions that you have in mind. So that's also another way to support the channel. Thank you, guys. Appreciate all of you. Keep pushing forward.
Speaker 3:Make sure you hit that link in the description below Probably what Maybe six hours east of Mexicali east, east, east, okay, okay, damn, I didn't even know, that is it across Nogales, somewhere over there by Puerto Penasco. Okay, somewhere in that area and you moved over at two years old. And then, where do you? Where you race?
Speaker 4:from two, I believe. Well, this is from what I remember from the family. I think we went to brawley, california, for like a year and then from there we went to fresno, because I went to kindergarten fresno you did, yeah. So I went to about friant. It was called friant, it was a town away like 20 miles away from fresno was your family working in the fields up there? Yeah, he, he was always working in agriculture.
Speaker 3:Your dad was.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I think it was the almonds. Back in that place it was the almond trees. So I went to kindergarten there and then I remember well, because I didn't speak English and at that school there was no Mexicans because it was not Fresno, it was a little town by the dams- what were there white people?
Speaker 4:Yeah Well, I don't remember, but I remember I learned English like within four months, because I remember my parents used to tell me I used to get home mad because I didn't understand anybody, but it was a good thing because I learned it within a few months, instead of just being where the Mexicans are. They're going to be speaking Spanish. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Especially at the low income. So it was kind of good that you know that that happened. And then from there, I guess I think, we moved to Fresno and then from there, I think, we went to the projects. We moved to the projects during some time and so we lived in the projects for a while in Fresno and I remember back then then that's when I got exposed like the first time that I remember violence, because I remember I used to see the back then it was mostly the blacks.
Speaker 4:Well, your what year time frame was this you know what I remember in Fresno, I think I must have been maybe six or seven but what was the year, the?
Speaker 4:the years give or take in the 70s, 70s, yeah, okay, so because I was born in 67, so 72. Kindergarten 73 maybe, yeah, and then so we lived in the projects. A lot of violence, a lot of getting chased by the black kids. I remember running home getting chased because I hardly know not that many mexicans at that time, goddamn In the projects, yeah, and I remember you know little things like that, right. And then from there I don't know, I forgot, because I remember I went to elementary school in Brawley. So we came to Brawley maybe eight, nine years old.
Speaker 3:And did you feel a little bit better or more comfortable that you were around more Mexicans?
Speaker 4:I don't think. I don't remember it feeling any way, it was all. I don't remember. If there was, it was just another place. Okay, we went to another place, and so I went to Oakley and then from there I went to Phil Swing and it was during a time when they were doing some kind of. They moved. All the first, second, third graders had to go to one school. Fourth, fifth and sixth went to the other school. Something was going on during that time with the politics and all that, and so I went to those schools and then from there we left maybe fifth grade, I think. And so I went to those schools and then from there we left maybe fifth grade, I think. And then we went to this place called Olancha, over by Victorville, but you head up.
Speaker 3:Damn dude, you guys were on the move.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so we went to Olancha. It's over by Lone Pine, I think, lone Pine Independence, by the Mammoth Mountains. So I lived in this little place that had like 100 population and then that place had the school. It was just two rooms. One was the first, second third grade and the other one was the fourth, fifth and sixth grade and then the. So the first row was first grade, second row was second grade, third grade, and then the two. So the first row was first grade, second row was second grade, third grade, and then the two teachers were married and then from there we used to go on Fridays hiking up the other mountain, because the mountain was right there by the school. So I remember that.
Speaker 4:And then I got to go to the junior high, but it was in the next town over. Was that a little bigger? I think Lone Pine was the name of that. Yeah, it was a little bigger, probably the size of Brawley, I think, if I remember right. And then so they had the high school there so we'd get bused. It was about a 25-minute ride or 25 miles. So every morning we would drive there to the next town over. And so I went there for I think we were there for a year. But then my mom had a stroke. So she had the stroke and then we had to leave because she couldn't be in the altitude. So then we came back to Brawley.
Speaker 4:So I went to Brawley, I was there junior high, seventh grade. At the end of 7th grade we came to Broadley and and then from there I was in 7th grade and then they told me okay, you know what? How old are you? Okay, you're a little too old to be in 7th grade. So they gave me a little, some kind of quiz or something and they put me in 8th grade. Damn so, in Barberworth and Broadley they put me in eighth grade. Damn so, in Barberworth and Brawley they put me. I only did two months of eighth grade. So I don't know how that worked, but I did two months of eighth grade and then I graduated eighth grade and then I went to Brawley High School. Okay.
Speaker 4:So I don't know how, but the difference in school and over there I was going to flunk up in the, they were going to hold me back in Lone Pine, and then over here they moved me up.
Speaker 3:It's brawly for you, man yeah.
Speaker 4:So they moved me up. I don't know if they had DEI back then or.
Speaker 3:I don't know. So who told me hookup?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I got. So I only did two months of eighth grade, went to high school and then from there I was there ninth, tenth grade, half of tenth grade, and then I went to Calexico, so it was just where my parents were going.
Speaker 3:So you're the definition of the American dream dude you were born in Mexico, came over here. Of the American dream dude you were born in Mexico, came over here. At what point did you get the idea to serve your country, and was the United States Marine Corps your first option?
Speaker 4:So it was nothing about serving my country at that time. What was it about? It was just, I was just a little. And then the thing is, because I was, you know, I was moving around, I was a real shy kid, okay. Thing is, because I was, uh, you know, I was moving around, I was a real shy kid, okay, like extremely shy. So I would, um, and I don't know, it's because I was moving around so much didn't really could be make a connection with people.
Speaker 4:So by the time I, uh, I remember in high school I don't think I had any friends I would, I would go when I go home and then everybody in the neighborhood because it was a poor neighborhood, and then it was a lot of mexicali people that were living in the place where I lived. And then, uh, so right there, you know, I was socialized there. But once I got, like like to the high school, like like nobody know, and then it was the same thing in calexico, but from calexico we'll go to mexicali on the weekends, where my cousins lived. So I met, I met a bunch of people there. Those were actually the last group of people that I knew that were my friends, because I still see them once in a while, and they were the people there that live in Mexicali and then pretty much everybody else that I remember from Brawley, like they kind of well, they all ended up in trouble.
Speaker 4:But the military, no, I had. The only thing is, for some reason I've always had it. I remember from when I was a kid I wanted to be a Highway Patrol. I don't know, because back then they had a show called Chips. Right Eric Estrada.
Speaker 4:So I don't know if it was because of that, because I remember I wrote an essay in elementary school in Fresno you know, what do you want to do when you grow up? And I wrote Highway Patrol, and so that was in my head since I was little, I don't know, maybe because of that show. And then so by the time, okay, I went through, you know, all the way to high school, senior or 11th grade, I was like you know what I want to? The Border Patrol came to do a little presentation and I was like you know what I want to do, that I seen him in the uniform and stuff, yeah. And then so I was like you know what I want to? Go Border Patrol.
Speaker 4:And that was just in my head and then so then, okay, when the time came, so then I got out of there. So then I got out of there, so then I went to the and to the, because I was not even close to being the military type, so I don't know what. And then I was very quiet, so I don't know what actually got me to to make these moves or to think like that. And then I graduated, I went to the recruiter's office and then I went the Marine Corps. They were closed or they were out to lunch or something. No, I was going to go Army. I didn't know anything about the Marine Corps. I was going to go Army because I said, oh, I'll go Army, yeah. And then so I went to the Army. They were out to lunch. So I went into the Marine Corps recruiter.
Speaker 4:And then so I went to the Army. They were out to lunch. So I went into the Marine Corps recruiter. I said, hey, do you know what time they come back? They go, come on in, you know, maybe we could help you out. But at that time I thought, no, I can't get into the Marine Corps. I thought the Marine Corps was too hard or something special.
Speaker 3:It is something special, bro, but I hear what you're saying. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And then so I go Army, army, seems like you know. And then so it's just okay, they called me in. They go, we'll take this test right here. So I took it. And they go well, what do you think you would want to be? I go military police. They go, well, you know what, your score's not high enough. But we got security forces. And then I go, okay, you know, and you're going to be guarding the base, whatever, whatever. And then I go, okay, yeah, I'll do that. And so you know. So I did that. I signed up, but I didn't know. Security forces was just for a year.
Speaker 4:You were a grunt, you were in the 0311 so you signed in as the 0311 yeah but I guess your first duty station was going to be, uh, security forces, which was a security for a base and then after that it's in the contract the last three years you're going to be a grunt well, yeah, and then you go to camp elton, you go back to the fleet, back to the regular fleet, and at that time I didn't know though, right. So I thought, okay, I went to boot camp. Where did you go to boot camp at? In San Diego.
Speaker 3:How was that experience, dude, because I know you said you were shy and more quiet. How was that experience?
Speaker 4:Well, I started from the most bottom as you can, I think I barely. I don't know if the recruiters cheated. They the most bottom as you can, I think I barely. I don't know if the recruiters cheated. They had to do at least three pull-ups and then maybe I did two and a half Right. And then because even the doctor that I was the family doctor, before I left he did a checkup on me and then he was shocked that I was going to the military. He goes are you sure you're going to make it? Because I think during that time I wasn't even eating, and then I must have been going through something. I don't remember, but I remember I wasn't eating, I would just pick up my food, and then I guess I must have just been nervous because I was an adult now right, I had to figure something out and then.
Speaker 4:So when I got to boot camp and then I didn't go, you know, when you go you could go with your recruiter and they try to prep you a little bit. I didn't show up to all because my parents moved to mexicali in my last two months before I graduated. So where were you staying at? In Mexicali? But I would go back and forth, so I would take a bus in Mexicali, where we were at cross the border in my last two months and then. So when I went.
Speaker 3:Would you take a bus from the valley to here? No, from.
Speaker 4:Calexico. I would walk all the way to the border cross, take the bus to the neighborhood where I was at, where my parents were at, and then do that for the last two months, cross A lot of kids still do that right now, Okay. And then there's a lot of people from Mexicali that go to school, and so then I did that. And then after that I was like having second thoughts about joining the military. I was kind of chickening out. How old were you when you enlisted 18.
Speaker 3:Okay, so you were a youngster.
Speaker 4:So I was. I was having second thoughts and then I don't know how the recruiter actually went over there and he found me when In Mexicali? No way, dude. So my parents, I guess they must have left some kind of address or something, maybe. Yeah, because I didn't even go to graduation, my parents went and picked up my diploma. I didn't go to like the last week or something, I don't remember. It's all like just A blur, yeah, it's a blur. So my parents went to pick up my diploma and then the recruiter. I guess they must have left an address or something at that school, because the recruiter went and found he was a Puerto Rican guy, remember? I don't know if his last name was Garcia or Gonzalez, and that's the first time I ever met a Puerto Rican guy. Yeah.
Speaker 4:So he went and he found me, which was a good thing because I don't think I was going to show up no more. And then so then I went next. You know, I went to maps. They checked me out. I had an ingrown toenail because I was supposed to leave in september. I had an ingrown toenail infected. They rejected me, so I went to get the toenail pulled out. Took like two months to heal and in december I went. In december december 9th or 10th, I went in in Greyhound. They picked me up at Greyhound in San Diego on Front Street, took me to boot camp and then from there because I didn't know what to expect. Like I didn't know anything, like what was.
Speaker 3:What about any war movies? Full Metal, jackie, no I wasn't even Because I wasn't.
Speaker 4:It wasn't about that. I wanted to go to the military. This is what I wanted to go to the military is this is what I need to do because this is what I want to do. So to get there, I need to go here because I'm not going to go to school. I barely made it out of the regular school. I wasn't going to go to college. I wasn't that type. I didn't like school and so I knew okay, well, I don't know.
Speaker 3:To this day. Can I explain why I had that sense of what I needed to do? Oh, I get it, bro, I get it. You had a goal and then you saw which steps you had to take to reach that goal.
Speaker 4:Like to this day, I still feel like I've always been guided by something spiritual right, that's good dude. And then, like to this day, I feel because a lot of times I have ignored like I still feel like I'm being guided by certain things, Like, right here, what I'm doing, I would never, ever. I hate cameras.
Speaker 3:I was just about to tell you there's a reason why you're here today, man, yeah, so I've always.
Speaker 4:And then I could look back and certain things where I had this feeling again and I would ignore it. And then, and then, so you can tell that you know what, there is a spiritual side of us that that we ignore. You know, especially now with social is getting worse, we'll get you that and uh, so I went okay. And then when I, when I got off the bus no, the van, I went in a van. Usually you see people they come on a bus, they get picked up at the airports and then they get on the. So I went on a van and they started getting yelled at. I didn't know what to think because I wasn't, I didn't know. So then they start yelling and this and that, and then the thing is, even though I was a quiet kid, but I was still grew up around the little gangsters and the little you know, we didn't like that, even though I was in no gang or nothing like that. But I still feel like, hey, who are these people?
Speaker 3:you know, you probably had a sense of like etiquette, and people should not be yelling at somebody as maybe disrespect or something yeah, it felt like.
Speaker 4:And then, because I still had that little, because I grew up the whole time in the, in the, in the, in the hood, I guess you would call it right and um, so then okay, so then we went in, I was receiving, and then from there they take you, get shaved and all just, and then they yell at you, take everything in your pockets.
Speaker 4:It's almost like if you're going into jail, like what the correct everything in your pockets, this and that, and look straight, don't you know? So you know the whole typical military stuff. So from there, okay, I, uh, they, we, we. Three days later we were introduced to the drill instructors and then from there, I guess, because I remember the one day they go, okay, we got an individual doesn't want to participate something. I think I gave him attitude because I still wasn't getting the hint. This is the way it is. This is this boot camp. They're not yelling at you, but I think I took it personal, like who are these people?
Speaker 4:right and then so for a day, I remember they moved me to the end by myself, to the end of the squad bay of the barracks, and then I was by myself and I guess from there I must have, you know finally caught on to. Okay, no, this is the way it is. This is you need to go through this?
Speaker 3:were they giving you special treatment? Meaning no, were they fixated on you? I?
Speaker 4:think they knew. Well, yeah, because I I brought attention to them.
Speaker 3:Like they say don't, don't so you brought attention to yourself. Yeah, and you and they, and they let you know yeah and were they rude about?
Speaker 4:it, oh yeah, and then after that, I, I finally clicked in. You know what? No, this is the way it is, this is, you know, you're here, this is boot camp, this is the program. You got to go through it and then, so from there, I guess, so I must have you know, okay, I got into the routine of the way things were and then, uh, so I went through the whole boot camp experience, um, and then, um, getting yelled at because I brought a lot of attention to him, because back, then were they putting hands on people yeah, so I got hit, like at least from where I remember, I got hit in the chest twice.
Speaker 4:But the thing is is because I went in there, remember, I wasn't in shape, I was real weak and then so I brought a lot of tension to him Correct, because I was, because I'm surprised, I like made it actually Real quick, before we started talking.
Speaker 3:I wanted you to expand on the different generations that you know have evolved. Do you feel that that type of behavior is beneficial to somebody? Somebody's growth?
Speaker 4:like me, I have no problems with it, correct? I went through. I think I, the type of person I was, was, actually did me good, correct? So it was good for me. But I was, I was, um, you know that that made me grow up, that made me, that made me. So I have no, like no complaints, correct? And then I haven't even got to the part where I went to my first duty station. I'll let it go, bro, let's hear it. So so you went through that, okay, I went.
Speaker 4:And then, uh, and they were, I would have to get up at night too to study, because they think I wasn't gonna pass.
Speaker 4:Uh, you know, because you have to do your knowledge, you have to remember all these things, all these, uh, you know tactics and all this.
Speaker 4:And then, um, so I, you know, so I was getting yelled at more than normal and then I was getting up at night to do extra studying because they're like this guy ain't gonna make it, um, and then, because in school, I don't even know, I don't remember learning anything in school because I would move around so much I do not remember. I don't know how I made it out of school. And uh, I think what helped me is I took um. I would get these books like tests taking for dummies and I think those little things in there has helped me pass these tests to keep getting through where I was going. And then I took typing the last two years in high school and I think you do a lot of writing, so I think that's what actually helped me be able to write a little bit and then that's what helped me get through. Because of the rest, I don't think I learned anything that I remember because I didn't like being there. Right.
Speaker 4:And so so okay. So I graduated boot camp and then I went to infantry training school. It was called ITS back then. Now it's called SOI School of Infantry In Camp.
Speaker 4:Pendleton. Yeah, so I went to ITS Infantry Training School and then so I got through that. And then I remember, back then they were looking for 20 volunteers to go to Cuba. Back then it was Cuba and I forgot what other duty station well, the worst duty stations you could have. And I forgot what other duty stations Well, the worst duty stations you could have. There was no combat or anything going on at that time. So the worst duty stations you could have was Cuba. And there was another one I forgot because of the isolation. And then so I remember I was like kind of joking around with people like, oh, you're going to go to Cuba, You're going to go to Cuba, and that day, because they didn't have enough volunteers, so they just picked people, so they started reading off the names, the 20 names, and they read my name and I was just like, and I was like Cuba, like, and then so I was the one picked to go to Cuba.
Speaker 4:And then back then you had to do also a they had to do like a, like a solubility, like a, like a background.
Speaker 4:Oh okay, because at base you needed a certain classification. Yeah, so so I went to, so they did that. So that was the first time I was actually classified. You know, with Clearance, it wasn't secret it was, it wasn't below that. So so then, you know, with the, it wasn't secret, it wasn't below that. So then so I got picked and then graduation of infantry training school. My parents showed up to graduation about two, three hours, got to see them for about an hour. After it was over it started like at 8 am. By noon I was on the bus straight to the airport. No way, dude. So so I went to um straight to the airport.
Speaker 4:First time flying I had my my two bag, my c bag, another duffel bag and my big because back then I would carry this big in the 80s big old radio, okay, and then I was really into my radios, so I took that, that thing with me. So I had a radio, big old C bag, another bag Like a boom box type of deal. Yeah, it was a big old boom box, I took it with me. So I go to the airport and then we fly I think it was Virginia or somewhere and then from there they were telling us. You know what, when you get to Cuba, make sure you put your head down when you get off the plane, because they were messing with us. They go, you might get shot at. So you know, when we land you're going to go into the. You know you're going to tuck your head or whatever, and they're already messing with you before you even got there. So I got to Cuba. That's the first time I ever felt humidity, because in the valley it was dry.
Speaker 4:So that's the first time I got off the plane and like whoa, humidity and then. So from there we went. There was two sides of the bay Swingward and Leeward. I was on Leeward. You had to take like a ferry across the bay and then you get to the Leeward side and then from there that's when I thought boot camp was. I don't think boot camp was anything compared to the receiving I got at no way man yeah.
Speaker 4:And then because at that time you had like the mentality I had now that I think about it, like when you think about discipline, right, the military, right, to me that was that was not discipline, that was not. It was like as soon as we got there, you know, the guy guys started like everybody was there. They started like messing with you, yelling at you, doing this, and that I guess kind of like almost going like to a prison, like hazing, yeah. And then I remember that night, that night they flipped, you know, they went into the rooms because all the new guys we didn't go out nowhere. There was 20 of us, so we were in our bunks and then, like at midnight they would come.
Speaker 4:I guess they came out drunk from the E-Club and they flipped our bunks over and then, you know, leather on our head. It was chaos for the first three months until those guys started leaving, and then after that, after we started becoming my group, we started becoming the seniors, when the other people started coming in, we didn't do any of that, you didn't do any of that. So then things started changing. Okay, so the environment changed because we didn't do that to nobody Right. We were treating them like you know, even though the military is expected, that kind of stuff is expected. But I guess I don't know if it was just the generation of the guys over there, maybe late 70s, early 80s, compared to the mid 80s, late 80s.
Speaker 3:Were they Vietnam veterans or no? I don't know. You mentioned that incident from the movie A Few Good Men. You said that incident happened while you were on.
Speaker 4:Yeah. I don't know if anybody died because it happened on the windward side and it happened like my last couple of months that I was there. We heard about some incident but from what I remember I think it was just like a blanket party that somebody got and I guess they got pretty hurt, pretty bad. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And that's all I knew, and I didn't know. And then pretty bad, yeah, and that's all I knew, and, uh, I didn't know. And then there was a. I know there was a change of command because we, you know, you have to do like you have to get information. It's like a ceremony right change commands. So sorry, imagine the colonel traveled together and they got relieved of their duties for whatever I think was because of that issue and uh.
Speaker 3:So so you also mentioned to me before that at that time they held leadership accountable.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's because when I see all this late stuff with Afghanistan and all that Correct, like what happened, like right there for this incident, the sergeant major and the colonel, you know they're responsible, there's no excuses.
Speaker 3:Right. And then the failed withdrawal of Afghanistan, where 13 service members died.
Speaker 4:When I seen that, and then that's the one I still had in my mind too was the other one that happened before that. Yeah, the embassy which one um oh, benghazi yeah, that one is. Is this right? It started building me hate. Uh, distaste for the, even though I was working already for the government. I haven't got to that part we'll get you that.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, no, we're building the, we're building the scene. Man, you're uh, you're a fucking grunt in guantanamo. Man, now you're the seniors. Yeah, what would your job duties consist of, right there?
Speaker 4:well, it was fence line duty and because right there you're supposed to, because I guess so the cuban missile crisis, okay, I guess they're not allowed to bring because they had the missiles there from and then. So from there they're not allowed to have any, any tanks, I believe, any uh, migs, any, uh, just small arms. So right there they had all their bases. We keep an eye on their base. They were behind a hill so you can really see their base, but you could see the in in going, out going. So we were locked down. We have a log book and you locked down on your post. You had a certain sector and you were like, okay, in, this went out, this came in, this went out did you have binoculars?
Speaker 4:yeah, they were called big eyes. It was a big old thing like on a stand, these big old things they usually have on ships right on the navy. They're called big eyes, so you could see right there were they staring back at you?
Speaker 4:yeah, sometimes we wave and they wait back. And it was the same thing, because sometimes we would take our flat jacket and our gear, our helmet off and stuff and relax and they would do the same thing. And then, when they see the like somebody come check the post, like the, the lieutenant or whoever, and then everybody throw their stuff back on yeah it was kind of funny you see them.
Speaker 4:Then they did the same thing. It was like the same thing and uh, so we were kind of like just go like that way back. And then you had one, two, three, four, five, I four, five, I think, about eight posts. One was right on the ocean, you would keep track of the ship movement. And then the other one okay, there was a military base there. Another one, three, it was about six bay. There was one that was 18 miles out, 18 miles out.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that one was right across from the. It was called Camarena City.
Speaker 3:What was it? A guard tower? Yeah, they're all towers.
Speaker 4:And was it?
Speaker 3:one person or two people?
Speaker 4:in that tower, no just one.
Speaker 3:And what have you got picked to go to the 18-mile-out one?
Speaker 4:Is it boring? Not that one, because you get to see the people there, you see the movement, people like the kids going to school, the people going to work. So it was kind of like. You know, that one was interesting, the one before that.
Speaker 4:Which one was the worst tower Like what are you not staring at anything, I think number 13, it was right by you keep track. There was like a little river that ran through the base and into Cuba, and I think that, for remember right, that's all. You were just watching the little river there and then the other ones. Well, you were watching because you had to keep track of what went in, what went out.
Speaker 4:Yeah, in the logbook, cool, and then the one at the sea that one's like, and then so you do. I think I don't remember right, but I think you would do a week guard duty or a fence line duty, and then the next week you would do infantry stuff, training.
Speaker 3:Whatever the infantry does, we'll go out there and train or what did you prefer doing, the infantry training or the guard duty?
Speaker 4:I think just it didn't matter. The whole just being there isolated, it sucked, yeah. Okay, and just being there like how was?
Speaker 4:the chow the chow was just regular chow, as a matter of fact. I think I don't remember I must have been consuming about 1,000. Everybody was like well, most people. There was very few people that liked being there because it was isolated, it was horrible and, from what I remember, most people were like man, I can't wait to get out of here. And then so I remember, and especially me, because you know, I went to boot camp, went to infantry training school and then straight to the bus and then over there, 18 years old. So I remember I was in, because I remember I was in hardly eating, I was eating very little the whole time I was there. And then so I lost a lot of weight and so, but a lot of weight, but towards the end. Actually, you get used to it. And at the end I was like, because you could extend for a year and I was this close, I was going to extend because I was already used to it. You get used to whatever environment you're in, right?
Speaker 3:How long was your tour there? A year, One whole year there man and I didn't go nowhere. I was just there the whole time. So was that part of the? That one year was that where your recruiters were talking about? That was going to be your one year of security forces.
Speaker 4:But they didn't know where I was. There because security forces was what was it? Where else Diego Garcia? It wasn't embassy duty, Embassy duty is different, but it was similar. You do duty, embassy duty different but it was similar.
Speaker 3:you, you, you do security for the base so then, after that, you have three years remaining on your contract but it's all overseas, I think okinawa, two security forces and then you came back stateside after that yeah, after that I came back, got 30 days.
Speaker 4:uh, they called it basket leave, free leave. So at that time my parents were still in Mexicali. So I went to Mexicali and that's where I had. The last friends that I had were from Mexicali. So I went there, back to the neighborhood there and I remember for three days I was in Cuba for a year.
Speaker 4:It felt like I was there for 10 years, like I felt when I got back to well, not the States, well, technically, the well technically in the border uh, I felt like, um, like things had changed right, like kind of like, when the prisoners get out of, but they're there for years, but they get that same feeling when they get into society, like you know, and I felt like I was gone. I was gone for longer than a year, so when I got back, I think I was in my house for three days like I, I didn't want to, I was like paranoid, right, I didn't want to go out. And then finally the the kids are from the neighborhood, they started coming over and then eventually I came out, okay, and then I so then I got back in. You know, okay, I'm back. So then from there, after 30 days, I went to my first or my duty station in Camp Pendleton.
Speaker 4:But the people, or the unit, was out. It was 3-7. And the unit was out and they were doing, they were finishing up their cold weather training up north Fort Ord or Hunter League, their cold weather training. So they said you know what? It makes no sense to take you all the way over there. You just you're gonna hang out here just kind of not doing nothing. Go help the the maintenance, or I forgot what it?
Speaker 4:was. So I was hanging out there for I don't know if it was two months a month and um, and then they came back and then, but this was a whole different. It wasn't like my receiving at Guantanamo. This was like, just normal. It was normal, people were friendly. You know, by this time it was a PFC.
Speaker 3:Do you think they were friendly to you because they knew you came from Guantanamo Bay?
Speaker 4:I don't think so, because I didn't see any of those. I didn't see that, or maybe just everything changed.
Speaker 3:Did you get any special ribbon for going to guantanamo? Do they how the marine?
Speaker 4:corps works. I don't know if I got the sea service, because I got two. I got a sea service and then I got a little, uh, because I went back overseas. I actually went overseas, so I think I did get a ribbon. I think they considered it a sea service or overseas or something like that. So I think we did get something.
Speaker 4:And so the guys came back and everything was going smooth. And then I started getting more. Oh, it was a whole different environment, right. And then from there we used to do jungle warfare training with 3-7. And then they got rid of or they moved. Something happened. They were shuffling things around. They got rid of 3-7. It was no longer under the 1st Marine Division and it went to 29 Palms, so half of it. And then they were forming a new company with 1-9. So half of it. And then they were forming a new company with 1-9. So 1-9, they were forming a new company. They needed the people, volunteers to go form that new company because they had an Alpha Bravo, charlie, they needed Delta, and those guys were raiders, they were trained in urban terrain warfare, so they would do like building, clearing all that stuff. So I don't remember if I volunteered or not, next, thing, you know. I just ended up.
Speaker 3:You went over there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I went over there, which is way better than ending up in 29 Palms. So I guess half of the guys ended up in 29 Palms. They formed a whatever new or I don't know. 3-7 went to 29 Palms the whole 3-7. So we went and formed a Delta company with 1-9. And then from there, how was that?
Speaker 4:training that was a whole different Over here was just jungle training. Because I went, oh, we went, to Okinawa for six months With 3-7,. I went to Okinawa and then we did. They have like a I didn't know at the time, it's some special jungle training. Yeah, it's like a big training thing they have there.
Speaker 4:So I went to Okinawa six months, but two months out of the six months we did we went on a two-month little, some kind of little, like a little float, like a little. We went to countries you don't usually go to singapore, hong kong, no, singapore, hong kong, indonesia, these are not your typical right uh, places you go to. And then, because I remember I don't know if there was some kind of arm sale or something going on with the us, because they were once we get there we'll do training in each country we went to. But then and then when we're doing training, some days they would kick us off the ship just to go on liberty and they would have all the weapons displayed the m60, the, the 50 cals the mortars, all that right and then.
Speaker 4:So at that time I was like, when it was going on now that I know, years later, I think they were selling arms right to these countries. Yeah. They were displaying them, so you know.
Speaker 3:They probably had you guys as a show of force, Marines.
Speaker 4:Well, I don't know, but I remember every country we went to. We were trained with them.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we would do like events with them and with you know Indonesian Marines and all these countries went to not Hong Kong. Hong Kong was just a liberty and Singapore was just liberty. And so we did it for two months, went on this little which was not part of the normal. Probably too many Marines probably didn't have that experience because it was just some little thing that happened. So I did that and then we went to. We came back, went to 1-9. They were going to go on a float so I got to do so. I did three different things in four years they usually only do one. You either go, you're with 1-9, you do a float.
Speaker 4:Maybe, you do another float within your four years.
Speaker 3:That's good though, man.
Speaker 4:Those are great experiences, you're either with three, seven you're going to go to Okinawa and maybe go again in those four years. So I got to do Cuba security forces. I did three, seven, jungle and Okinawa training and then in Okinawa I did a little two month, little extra thing and then in Okinawa.
Speaker 4:I did a little two-month little extra thing, yeah, and then one nine, they go on a float for six months on a ship. So then I did that. Oh, we only had eight months to learn all the new stuff which is urban terrain warfare. So then we had to learn as a company and then from there we went to do your final test over in 29 pounds, I think.
Speaker 3:What did the final test consist of? Like a.
Speaker 4:It's just so, yeah, a big old training thing that they do over there to make sure that you're you're prepared right to go over, because there was still conflicts going on in iraq even back then yeah so he had to be prepared for, for, because anything could kick off, which was there was a bunch of times where we were already on our way to Iraq.
Speaker 4:I don't know what was going on in Iraq. All I knew was I was there and whatever had to happen had happened and um, and by that time I already had confidence. I was already in more than two years. So I was already like ready, yeah, first two years I probably would have not known, I would have been like, oh, you know, I'm gonna die, I don't. But the last, my last year, my last, probably after two and a half years, where I actually felt confident, I don't care, right, if something happens, because there was always that that thing, because there was always incidents going on overseas.
Speaker 4:And then back then we would do a lot of training, um, to secure embassies, because there was a lot of coups, like in the Philippines, yeah. And then so we would do a lot of training, uh, to go and, uh, get the people out. A lot of coups, like in the Philippines, yeah. And then so we would do a lot of training to go and get the people out, a lot of fast roping out of helicopters, all that training, ride control. So we'd do a lot of that training, because that's the main thing that was going on back then was the coups in these different countries that probably the US was causing.
Speaker 3:So, as you're about to exit the Marine Corps did you apply for?
Speaker 4:talk to me how you got, how you applied for ins and how you got into ins so okay, so that, uh, so my last, my last year in the, in the, in the marine corps, I had already kind of forgot about what I was going to do next. Okay, so I was already, like you know, I was having a even though you didn't have that much free time with being in the infantry. You were always either training in the field or overseas or whatever. Right, but the time because there was a time where we would just be there at the base, maybe a few months, and I got to come home. So maybe a few months and I got to come home. So I was enjoying all that right now I was getting, you know, got to come home on the weekends. I did that for a little bit and um, and then, uh, oh, we went to train with the before we went overseas. They called us back early I don't know if it was just a training thing to see if people were going to show up because they said we're going to leave early because something was happening overseas yeah so everybody had come and we had a meetup in Coronado and then they said, you know what, never mind, Since we're all loaded up, we're all ready to go
Speaker 4:we're just going to stay here the last month before we have to leave and we're there and ported there in San Diego, somewhere not in Coronado, and while we were there for the month in Coronado, we'll go train with the SEALs and there, when you train on their base, you can't walk nowhere, you have to run everywhere. So once you leave, chow, you go to wherever you're going, you run, you double time. So that's the way it was, because that's the way the SEALs do it. And then so we went through their confidence course or they call it obstacle course.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it wasn't no obstacle course, that was a confidence course yeah and then so we got to go through that. They went through it like if it was just a regular obstacle course, you know.
Speaker 3:Uh well, we had people that were is that the one you can see if you're driving?
Speaker 4:down, yeah the base and um. So we got to do some training. I don't remember that much about it, but I remember we're there and then next to nowhere, shipping off, and then for my first time on the ship. Like you, gotta, I don't know if you've ever been on a ship, but it takes some use because everything's crammed up.
Speaker 4:There's not really nowhere yeah, so it takes a week or two to get used to. You know you don't have that much uh, movement or area to maneuver. And then the bunks are four, damn so there's one on the floor, one, second, third, fourth, and then when you get up there's no room to change, so you're mainly changing your stuff on in your so all the ships that was. And then you're sometimes you're out there for I don't know how long where you're just seeing the ocean and it kind of like because they have to keep you busy, because if not, you're kind of like because you're looking out there you don't see no land for like. Yeah, I don't know if it was weeks or, for sure, days, until you get to your next port and then. So that was a whole.
Speaker 3:During this time did you have good leadership? Yeah, so your, your leadership was competent.
Speaker 4:There was a few that, uh, they try to be there. It's because they were kind of when you try to force it and be phony right you could see it, and then it doesn't make a good. Um, you know, you got to find a way to lead and then, and if you put in a position, but you, you still got to like you can't fake it, because then they're overaggressive. Right.
Speaker 4:And you can see that. But that was very. I maybe remember one guy that was like that, but that's one thing I did admire, that kind of. I think I carried that. I guess I'm going to get into it. But when I started working for the government it was total opposite.
Speaker 3:Well, that's what I want to start moving into talking about how you had great leadership. You had an understanding of how things are supposed to function, yeah Right, and then, when was it that you joined INS?
Speaker 4:So then when I left, I was like so, then I started getting back.
Speaker 4:Okay, the border patrol thing yeah so after I got out, and then, uh, I almost ended up in lepd, because the last week before you get out of the marine corps they send you to um to um, the place where they finish up doing your paperwork, get ready. So you get out. And then so I was there for a week. A boy, uh, how patrol came. No, no, lapd came. They started testing people. They were in there. I didn't know nothing about it. Yeah, I took the test, I passed it. They were doing mass hiring, wow, for lapd. This was in 89, no, early 90s, so they were doing mass hiring for lapd. And then so I took the test, I passed it, I went through the process and then next year, you know, because it was expedited, so I passed everything and did everything.
Speaker 4:And they know those military guys, they ain't got much background to do and all that stuff. So they were mainly, I think a lot of military people went into LAPD during that time. So next year, you know the only thing I had. Next thing, you know the only thing I had to do. I passed everything. The only thing I had to do was the medical Show up, do the medical physical, pass it, and then I was going to go to LA to the six-month academy. But I was like I don't want to go to, I don't want to live in LA and I don't want to go six-month academy right out of the Marine Corps.
Speaker 4:And then so I was this close, I was going to end up in LAPD. And then, um, so I said nah, so then I didn't follow through with I had a envelope, I was ready to go, I just had to go past that. And then I was going to go to the academy, so I didn't go. And uh, so I went back to the valley and um, so from there I started kind of not. I went on to the Valley, so from there I went on unemployment for like three weeks. I got bored and then from there I was like you know what I said I'm going to work security. I'm going to start working security. Oh, because I took the Border Patrol test and I didn't pass it. You didn't pass it. No, and I took a Harbor Patrol test, I didn't pass it. And then took a highway patrol test, I didn't pass it. And then I was like, oh shit, so then I got my guard card and then started working security. Just you know guarding farms or yeah, whatever you know.
Speaker 4:Minimum wage 411 an hour, god damn. So I did that, guarding quinceaneras yeah and then I was pretty like because I wouldn't mess around, like I would take things serious, like people that would try to come in, even females, I would not let them in if they didn't have a. And then I was just like that. I was very like, uh, like I didn't, I didn't play around like yeah you know, trying to do favoritism stuff like that.
Speaker 4:So I did that, I did security and then from there a friend of my um or a friend of my brother's. He was a non-grad guy, he didn't have nothing to do. He wanted to go to California Conservation Corps. So you know what, go, and then I'll go with you. So I went there. I don't know if you know the California Conservation Corps. It's mostly high school dropouts and stuff like that. So I went with them.
Speaker 3:I think my uncle went to that yeah.
Speaker 4:So I went with them because I was like I was, it was boring the security stuff that I was doing. Yeah. So then I you know what I'll go with you, and at that time, because I was still, I was a client, was it called Job Corps?
Speaker 4:Yeah, like Job Corps. And then from there, you know, you do the push-ups and all that. But I remember I would keep up with the because I still had the military in me, right, so I would keep up with the instructors and all that stuff and whatever. Like me, it was odd for me to be there because I wasn't. You know, it was like high school dropouts, people that were trying to get it together, and then so I did it to back him up. And then so we got through the little two week training. We went to our Santa Barbara or somewhere up there, uh, went to our our where they send you to do your. It was the. The training was forest fires. You do forest fires and and then repairing, like the, the national parks, like, like building like the little. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Uh, so that's what you did there. They, they show you the tools and all that. So we went to our first Chatsworth, up in the mountains somewhere. And then, but the thing is like, nah, like he didn't like it and I was like, well, I don't know, what am I going to do, I'm not going to stay here. So then we resigned. We resigned and they told us you got to come back on a Friday. They told us you got to come back Monday so we could give you a check, so you could go back home. So for two days we went to Chatsworth, down the mountain, down the hill. We were in Chatsworth, sleeping in the street.
Speaker 3:Sleeping in the street.
Speaker 4:Yeah, on the bus benches, because once we resigned resigned, they didn't want us there, right? So we went and worked all the way down. We went, we slept in the park in the daytime and then monday we walked back up and it was kind of funny because my that guy, he's not, he wasn't in the military or nothing yeah so he was having a hard time, uh, you know, climbing up the hill and so it was an experience.
Speaker 4:So then I I got back, I went back to security, back to the guy you know what, I'm back. I told him I was going to go to the military. So then he, okay, and then, because I told him, you know what, I went to the military, so he gave me my job back and then so I started working security, getting regular security. I must have did it for like eight months. And so I started working security, again regular security. I must have did it for like eight months. And then from there I worked like two months with AT&T. They were doing some kind of special project out in the desert cables in the ground out in the desert. And then I did that for two months because they were paying $7.11 an hour. I was paying $4.11 for security. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And then that was like long, paying $4.11 for security, yeah. And then that was like long hours, like 16 hours a day, and then from there I seen an advertisement for security at the detention and I was like I never knew that place was there, I never heard of it. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Some detention, immigration detention center said, and it said $7.11 an hour, so from $4.11 an 7-11 hour, and then so I applied they were doing a mass hiring because the security was taking over what the immigration officers, the detention officers, were doing. So they needed a bunch of security to take control or to take over all the barracks. So we met up, they did all the paperwork, the training at a hotel for like three days and then we go, we meet up at the detention center. That's my first time I'm exposed to, like you know, like a, like a detention, like a jail detainees?
Speaker 3:yeah, there were detainees. Were they from different countries?
Speaker 4:at that time you had a lot of um. There were more all out of the prisons. There was only maybe one dorm that was all just illegals and the world. There was all prison. All the prison was coming there after they did their time. So there was a lot of cubans there. There was a lot of cubans, a whole dorm of cubans, and then there was a lot of jamaicans there. There was a lot of um, different races, and then um, and then that's the first time, uh, I started seeing because I wasn't really exposed, like to the sorranos and and stuff like that uh, the regular gangs from brawley. There was a lot of gangs in brawley. Well, I was.
Speaker 4:Actually, it was two drive-by before drive-bys got popular yeah going back a little bit to to the high school days, that what they did a drive by where I was living at with the pistol, and then they did a drive by at the park where I was at and then, like a year later, you started hearing about drive by. Like they got popular yeah but before we hit the news there was already drive-bys in brawley and the little town. There was like seven or eight gangs.
Speaker 4:You had g street, I don't know he said probably bbl pys, and then you had the mexicali guys, and then chicali and then, and then because me, I wasn't part of none of that, so, um, so it's kind of because if you don't want to be part of that, they're not going to mess with you like, try to force you or nothing like that, and um, so that was just interesting, the, you know the.
Speaker 4:I was in the background when interesting you know, I was in the background when bullets were, you know, when they were doing these drive-bys. But so when I got there, yeah, and then that's where I started seeing like these guys out of prison, like the sort of annuals, and I really didn't know anything that much about it. What they were To me I was already used to being. You know, they didn't look no different from the gangs from Brawley Right the tattoos and the mannerisms, and so to me it was like just a normal. I felt like I was just around those guys again. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Back in the neighborhood there in Brawley. And then there was also a lot of people that I seen in there that I knew there were immigration proceedings, People that I knew that I met there while I was in Raleigh the two or three years I was there.
Speaker 3:That were working or going through the process.
Speaker 4:No, mostly going through. I didn't really know the people that were Like getting deported. Yeah, Okay, they were in proceedings, so they had green cards, but and a lot of them didn't even know like that they could actually get deported because they were there from, they thought they were citizens. Damn, A lot of them didn't even realize that. What is this? Like you know, they got in trouble. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then they got a removal charge got them put in proceedings During this timeframe? What was the capacity like in there Like During this time frame? What was the capacity like in there? Like oh there are a lot of people, a little bit of people.
Speaker 4:Back then. I think they only had four dorms and I think it was a total of 400, maybe 400?
Speaker 3:Yeah, Throughout your career would you see those numbers change and fluctuate?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it doubled up. They built four whole new dorms, so then they had anywhere between 600 and up to 1,000. But when it got up to 1,000, it was overflows. They were out to sleep on the floor, damn. And because it depends on what was going on, because there's been other mass movements Not this last one, this last four years. That was the longest one. That was a four-year straight, but before that you would have mass movements throughout different times. So then we had to deal with them, the overflows, and it was just different races, different times. Like one time it was a bunch of Chinese that just all of a sudden just came over at once, a bunch of people from India we have all the India people there and they would all just travel like in big and they would all just travel like in big. So, yeah, anywhere between 600 and maybe 900 and something at the most. But at that time, at the beginning, when I first started, it was the detention officers with INS and then Border Patrol come do overtime at the dorms Because they were short.
Speaker 4:They were short to run the dorms, so Border Patrol would come and back then it was just open. You were just there. Eventually they would build like a little area where you're kind of caged off the detainees. Were there any guns? No, you had a baton.
Speaker 3:Pepper spray.
Speaker 4:I don't remember, I don't think.
Speaker 3:Just a good old baton yeah, just a baton keys.
Speaker 4:Yeah, big old key radio radio, okay, so they would have that, and then the border patrol be there and then, I think, eventually they build the little cage area where you're actually behind the. So eventually it would be one officer in the cage, one officer inside. With them there was two. It was a open barracks and there was two sides, so he would just kind of hang out, walk around was there ever assaults amongst the residents there?
Speaker 4:oh yeah, that was the first thing I got exposed to I was security, didn't get to to, I couldn't do anything as security. And then the first fight I seen was in the kitchen. Like the first time I seen was in the kitchen, like the first time I seen a big old fight break out when they were feeding, damn.
Speaker 4:And then I just seen like planes flying and all this stuff and I was there like, and then I was in the kitchen. I had kitchen duty in the back and I was like, oh, and then I seen the detention. All the officers came, whatever, and then. But back then you had some rough officers, were pretty rough back in the well, this was the early 90s, which I heard is the same probably everywhere prison.
Speaker 4:You had a whole different type of uh, give me some examples of being rough well, they mess around, like once they put their hands on you it was going to be a hard. Uh, you know there was no let me.
Speaker 3:You know, let me you know, let me be gentle with you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, at the end they ended up being like that. But you know you have me. You know, at the end Let me be gentle with you. Yeah, at the end it ended up being like that, but you know you have to do all these warnings, all this, but at the beginning it was like and.
Speaker 3:Well, real quick. Do you think for a correctional setting that that type of demeanor or command presence needs to be had?
Speaker 4:Yeah, because that showed off. Yeah, because they know you're not going to, because they knew you weren't going to If they act up, it was going to be dealt with. So it was way better. It was way safer than what it turned out to be at the end babysitting and the only thing, yeah, the only thing. And then there was a lot of back. Then I don't think I don't remember, I think it was just a memo. If you put your hands on somebody, it was just you wrote your memo, awesome, and that was it. That I remember. I don't. Use of force came in later. Right, the use of force form and then more like okay, you could have done this, you could, you know, yeah.
Speaker 4:And then after that, well, it wasn't it kind of like at first? It was kind of fun, because you know well, and then later on, and so during that time frame, things make sense.
Speaker 3:Inmates get out of control, you guys put them back in control. Minimal report writing to none. How was the leadership at that time? Or do you even realize? Did you even know who your leadership was?
Speaker 4:because of your position okay, okay, speaking of security, because I did security three years yeah there. So I don't remember much about doing the security stuff. And then once I went over to the actual INS as a detention officer, okay, and then I was under the leadership of actually the government, right, you know, the supervisors. Actually everything was good. The only thing that the complaint I would have about those days was the favoritism. Yeah, there was cliques, and then for me, because I wasn't, I didn't like that.
Speaker 3:Who were they hooking up? People from their hometown, just people, that, yeah people that they knew from childhood.
Speaker 4:There was a lot of people that everybody knew each other Right, so they were, you know they were, or like. Another thing was like, for some reason, sports, like people would have this bond because of sports. But I didn't watch sports so I couldn't get into the, you know, I wasn't part of the crowd.
Speaker 4:You were a lone wolf bro Plus yeah, Plus I was like more of a. I was always serious. I always wanted to do things like. I hated playing games, Correct, I hated like doing things just, you know, for no reason, or people messing around like horseplay. I didn't like that. But the detention that was the only thing I think would be the favoritism of the little clicks.
Speaker 3:But other than that, it seems like in the beginning time of your career you were enjoying it. Yeah, and I'm sure the pay was massive compared to $4 an hour.
Speaker 4:The only thing yeah, yeah, okay. Then it went up. Actually, it went probably even for when I was making with the security company yeah and then probably even and then. But then you started moving up. You know you're a great level, so then you were making. Eventually you would make more than what was security um but um. So I did the, the detention stuff. He did all kinds of stuff, because when I did bailiff court I did um and then fights, fights, all the time, breaking up fights, slamming people why were they fighting just? Disagreements.
Speaker 3:Gang violence.
Speaker 4:I think there was maybe a few incidents because of gangs, but not, it was mostly just disagreements.
Speaker 3:Was there an isolation area?
Speaker 4:Yeah, we had the special management unit, which is the cells.
Speaker 3:It was like 18 cells.
Speaker 4:It was just one little building and you had about nine little cells on each side and that's where the people that were getting in trouble go.
Speaker 3:What were the cell doors? Made out of? A solid or bars.
Speaker 4:It was a solid door and it had an opening.
Speaker 3:For the food, yeah, that was a solid.
Speaker 4:or bars, it was a solid door and I had an opening for the food, yeah, and then a little window. And how long could the inmates stay up until there? For I think two weeks, damn, except for the, uh, I don't know.
Speaker 4:I, I can't remember the exactly the because he had pcs you did protective custody who would be considered a pc well, at one time it was the, the like, the he she's and the. They had them there. The trans people, uh yeah, but eventually, later on, once it got political, they were, they were out and about hey, bro, once we got political, they gave them the keys and they were running the show.
Speaker 4:So, okay, you know these guys could be, you know whatever yeah and then so you only had the norteños, for sure those guys, never, okay, but it very rarely you would have a norteño. And then so you only had the norteños for sure those guys, never, okay, but very rarely you would have a norteño. And then so, right as soon as we knew he was coming we knew he was coming, right away, get him out you'd be surprised.
Speaker 3:Right now, man, they're welcome down south and they're intermingling yeah, amongst what I've been seeing.
Speaker 4:well, they're trying to force it, but you know, those guys have their rules. I don't know if it's going to work out, but so you had that. You had because we did, but we had a lot smaller population because when they would get fights it was mostly race. There was a lot of race. They get in fights because of their Race riots or like one-on-one, like just brawls.
Speaker 4:Not like brawls, like maybe what like five, ten guys With not like brawls, like maybe what like five ten guys With weapons or no weapons? No, because we would do constant shakedowns. When they went to eat we would shake it down. When they come back, they get patted down probably two different times. So it was rare. I don't think that I've known or at least me, I never found like any shanks on anybody. Would they make alcohol? Yeah, they would make pruno, yeah, alcohol, yeah, they were make pruno. Yeah and uh, but drugs drugs was the other one. That because I guess you did have some officers that would bring it in and then you would have it. They would throw it over the fence while they were in the yard yeah when they were out in the yard.
Speaker 4:People pass by the back street because I forgot what street that is because it's right there in town, so you have the neighborhood there, so they would drive by, throw us over is that the one by big five?
Speaker 4:yeah, okay, or they would throw like tennis balls, they would have the neighborhood there, so they would drive by, throw us over. Is that the one by Big Five? Yeah, okay. Or they would throw like tennis balls. They would have all the stuff in there. They would throw a tennis ball over and so it wasn't that big of a problem. But you would have here and there like drugs Shanks. We didn't really give them a chance to At that time, what kind of drugs was it?
Speaker 4:I don't remember. I think it was just marijuana, I think, I'm not sure.
Speaker 3:How about any assaults on the staff members? Were that happening?
Speaker 4:Yeah, oh, it was no, not bad ones, just maybe they got a hit or two off and then they would get, because back then then, well, they would get roughed up by the uh, the old, the old timers there yeah and um yeah, so it didn't happen too much, unless they were a little 51, 50 yeah, did you guys have crazy people?
Speaker 4:yeah, all of a sudden they would just go off. But you had to know. You had to know what you had right, and if you let your guard down, they were going to start wailing on you.
Speaker 3:How important is it that you have your guard up working in a correctional setting?
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's the whole thing. The whole thing is because, yeah, as soon as you left there or you get complacent, that's when things happen. And the time because you could get complacent, because sometimes you know nothing would happen, and you're kind of like, and then sure enough, and then, but you could tell by their, when they would come to eat. You can tell something was going to by the. You can feel the tension, the tension when they would come to eat. A fight's going to break out, get ready, and then you could just. And then bam, all of a sudden, just plates flying. And then, because in all of a sudden, just plates flying, because in one of them actually a big old fight broke out.
Speaker 4:And then I got. It was an Armenian guy. I got him and I slammed him, because on video too bad, I couldn't get a copy of the video. But when I slammed him his legs went flying in the air and he landed hard. And then I went over him and put my knee on him. And then I was on my radio when you learned that the Marine Corps no, it was mainly because I was always horseplay like that. Okay, so those moves, they were natural to me because of Broly messing around. Yeah.
Speaker 4:We're always messing around.
Speaker 3:Rough housing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so hip throw, that was my go-to. None of this training that they try to teach you. You're not going to remember none of that Right At the academy. The little training, that has to be something natural that you used to because you've been doing it for years. Yeah. And so those were always the go-to to me was the judo. For some reason, that was a good route.
Speaker 3:Do you believe that the generation of today, which I believe is called Gen Z, do you believe that the generation of today, which I believe is called Gen Z? Do you believe they are softer in life because they lack that physical altercation with one another?
Speaker 4:You know what? I don't know Because I don't have your typical Gen, because I don't know my kid he's 22. Probably yeah. But my kid. I was wrestling with him since he was little. I would grab him and then put more tension on him, bro.
Speaker 3:I have no doubt that you were a good dad, bro.
Speaker 4:So it kind of reminds me like of the Spartans, where the guy was wrestling with his kid yeah, like I would do that to my kid. Yeah, go get him. And he was getting older, I would put more pressure. Plus, I knew the basic jiu-jitsu stuff, so I would do that. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And you know, get him in my guard, mount him, put pressure on him, and then a lot of horseplay, and he was a strong kid. He was an aggressive kid, but I would teach him you know what? Okay, eventually you're not going to have this energy, so you can't just be going all out and then eventually oh, I think once he got to 16 years old, that's the last time I did that. Yeah. Because he wanted to beat me and I could see he was going to get hurt.
Speaker 3:Who was going to get hurt?
Speaker 4:Him Because at that time I actually had to do real, you know, to stop him Like real force, like real force. And that's the last time I go, you know what? Because he wouldn't like, he didn't even know what tap being, he wouldn't do it Right, he was like like changed. So I thought you know what, no, I can't, I can't. He's gonna have to go to a real place if he wants to continue right or with me, like for some reason he takes it personal.
Speaker 3:He but I don't think the majority of fathers in today's day and age are raising their children to be that you know um assertive and engaging no, plus, I used to be real strict.
Speaker 4:When he was little. He misbehaved. I would probably younger by the year was your father strict with you?
Speaker 4:no, my father was like, because I think my father, I think we were his third family, his final, his first two families, because he was a, he was like, um, I guess he was kind of like a rebel type, so he had divorces. Yeah, his kids didn't talk to him so when he got to, when we were his family, he did it right. Yeah, he was like totally like he got his life together and so he was a totally different person.
Speaker 3:You felt you had to be firm in your son's life. Why? Because of the Marine Corps. You know what?
Speaker 4:I think it was the Marine Corps that must have did that to me because I had no reason to no. And then also just seeing, because almost everybody that I knew growing up was in jail or dead, okay, and just seeing that, and then, after seeing the stuff that I seen you know, reading people's rap sheets, right, and all these people in trouble, and I think that's what turned me into being strict on him. You trouble, and I think that's what turned me into being strict on him. You know what? This ain't a game. Everybody I might have got lucky that I, that I got to go this way, because everybody that I knew died drug addict, um, or never got their stuff together or got deported.
Speaker 3:Facts dude and then.
Speaker 4:so I was like that's why I was like, why am I so? But I was like and in a way I was like, why am I so? But I was like and in a way I was like I think it was good in a way, because he didn't end up like the rest of these, the regular new generation of being pampered. But in a way it's something I think, man, maybe I was a little too, so I don't know, I don't know if it was a good thing or a bad thing.
Speaker 3:I think you did it right, bro. You know what I mean. You don't know if it was a good thing or a bad thing being uh, I think I think you did it right, bro. Like you know, I mean, you don't strike me as a person that goes overboard.
Speaker 3:You seem level-headed and cool, calm, collective yeah, because in the moment yeah, but then I would talk to him afterwards but I I would like for you to maybe give some tips to a new correctional staff member of how important it is to understand your environment yeah, it's very important, and the only thing is you're gonna get caught up because you're gonna have these different types of people.
Speaker 4:They're working. You're gonna have the people that don't care. You can have the people that are just weak. You can other people that are too aggressive, mm-hmm, and those are just phonies. That facts that probably. I mean I don't, maybe because the way I grew up and I seen all this stuff growing up, so so you can see these people that try too hard and they're a little too aggressive, and like, because I've had people, I just tell me you know, we're trying to take a guy down, he's too aggressive. You know what? Get out, right, like, get out, let me and I did it myself- yeah.
Speaker 4:By myself, I would put a guy in and take care of the other guy. You know there's people like that spaz, they spaz, and so that's the thing that makes it hard is depends what kind of different officers are in your unit or around you, because you can tell whenever you get to a dorm okay, who's the officer? I'm here with.
Speaker 3:Did you have more problems with partners or with the? Detainees inmates was nothing like bro, it's funny how everybody's everybody says that dude everybody, because you would get the the.
Speaker 4:You know the people that try to, mostly because I I've always, I was always in shape, so they can tell who they would test it. That's why I always believed in officer presence. But I wasn't an ass, I was just you know what, and I think a lot of them knew that, you know, because I wasn't going to hesitate, even though when it got to the point where we had to give them three warnings eventually it came to that later on during the years and then it would just be three quick ones and boom, you're on.
Speaker 3:So basically dude like how important is physical fitness in life in general, but specifically working in law enforcement?
Speaker 4:Well, my main thing was because I always carried that from the Marine Corps, right? Well, my main thing was because I always carried that from the marine corps, right, because of the uniform, always, um, um, you know your presence. Even in law enforcement they say officer presence. That's the first to defuse the situation is officer presence and then from there, hopefully, then you don't have to go spray and the baton or hands-on Mine was hands on.
Speaker 3:You mind if I tell them your age bro? Yeah 58 years old man, 58. In about a week Better shape than 90, 95% of the regular people out here man.
Speaker 4:As a matter of fact, I used to do a lot of running but I got paranoid because of my age and I said you know what I don? Paranoid because of my age and I said you know what? I don't want to get a heart attack because I was scared. I started getting paranoid of uh, because you never know, not the heart attack was a bad heart, but because the ones that uh, you know your heart yeah and I was like and then I kind of like four years ago I stopped, kind of like I really don't run no more.
Speaker 4:um, but I've always either weight lifted, for sure non-stops, and then and if not, I would do a lot of cardio, I would always do something.
Speaker 3:Do you believe that the detainees didn't test you or didn't push your buttons because they knew you didn't mess around?
Speaker 4:Yeah, they knew, as a matter of fact, when that fight broke out in the kitchen that's what kind of, because you could see it on video when I slammed that guy and the way I got on top of him. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And then everything like froze, even though OIC at that time goes, you should give this guy you know something, because he's the one that kind of everything kind of like stopped. And then because if you sit on video it was like and then the guy was like he was a little stocky Armenian guy and he was a little bigger than me, and then because I remember they wouldn't stop fighting and he was punching one of the other guys over, one of the old timers that was a little short officer. We had a lot of officers. There were kind of like paisa types. Yeah.
Speaker 4:That mostly if you spoke to them, they spoke to you spanish, okay, the officers originals that were there. So he was trying to like, really not doing nothing, trying to hold that guy in his place. Another guy was punching over him. So that's when I grabbed that guy and did that. So I kind of diffused everything, calmed everything down and even though I see this is during the time when I, when I started getting distaste for the way, the favoritism, because the way they would write up, like even though I didn't like that, the attaboys, the awards and all that, yeah, but it's still, you could see, like none of the supervisors followed up on. You know, okay, this happened, even though IC said it Right, none of the supervisors like.
Speaker 4:And there was one time in the isolation where a guy went on the roof of the isolations and he was on the edge of the building. Me and another supervisor were trying to talk to him, you know, because we didn't know if he was going to jump or what, and I remember the supervisor was talking to him and then I remember I was like, okay, should I go? Should I go? And then I jumped and I already had it in my mind If I grab him. I have to fall back this way. So I jumped, I grabbed him and then pulled him back in. Nothing for that.
Speaker 3:How did that guy get up onto the building?
Speaker 4:Because inside there's a little closet and then there's a ladder that goes up, so somehow I don't know how they let him out, and then he got up there. It was a Cuban. So I remember a lot of things that I did, and then I would see the way they would, uh, give out of boys to like for no reason, for just dumb stuff to lames yeah, what about ass? Kissers, yeah that. But even though it didn't really, it kind of bothered me just to man like what is this?
Speaker 3:place. So this is you, this is you getting.
Speaker 4:I'm just a taste for it yeah, because back then I wasn't really plus I'm actually because I was more. I was more. I guess now the terms I'm starting to learn is I guess I was an introvert. Yeah, so I'm starting to learn all these new terms. I don't know, I'm just. And then I was just a very quiet but I didn't like playing games. That was my whole thing. I didn't like playing games. For we got gotta do things right.
Speaker 3:We gotta so, as all this is happening, I'm sure you were raised to stay quiet as well, not complain yeah, but I did go through my time of uh of complaining about, but in the beginning. It's because the environment.
Speaker 4:What happens is the environment around you. Eventually, because I wasn't like that correct, and then eventually, as time went by, I started turning into like like everybody else, like gossiping and talking how far into your career?
Speaker 3:no, that was like probably 10 years, okay of just after. That's understandable yeah.
Speaker 4:And then you see things like because my saying was you can't beat them, join them. And then after a while, like I would just hold a lot of things in like what is? This and then and then. Another bad thing back then is I didn't like doing overtime because I also wanted, you know, I used to like to go lift weights, I used to go like to go run and then so I didn't want to be there, all you know, 16 hours a day, so I didn't like doing overtime.
Speaker 3:Were there guys that were overtime hogs, oh yeah.
Speaker 4:And then at that time I guess well, like that time, I was taking care of my father. He was elderly they cut his leg off, but back then they didn't have no mercy about it. Whatever you had at home was your personal issues. And so I remember, and then it turned like it goes through some extremes, like okay, we don't care what you got going on, you figure it out. To the other extreme at the end before I left, like they have to cater to the officer, whatever you know he's got going on, you're going to have to cater to his and the other officers are going to have to figure it out. And it just it goes from one extreme to the next instead of there being some kind of balance.
Speaker 4:So then, that's what I've seen, just the extremes of. To me, that's a lack of leadership, like you don't know, is it?
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, that's a lack of leadership, like you don't know, is it? Well, yeah, it's lack of leadership, but what about how often was leadership changing?
Speaker 4:Were they staying put for a while, or the regular first liners, second liners, yeah, they were there like the whole time. I remember, for years and years and years. The only thing that would change constantly was the OIC officer charge, like, of the whole facility, and they were usually there what three or four years. Okay, so you can tell the first, the first one that was there, he was, he was, uh, he wore like his own military outfit and actually I think he was the best one that that I liked yeah was that guy and people were like what is he wearing?
Speaker 4:like he had his own kind of. He looked like a military, uh, uniform but it was not a military no and then, uh, and then he was like, and he didn't play no games. If there was one time there was, a detainee was on top, he said he was gonna jump, he was gonna hang himself, and then I remember he was scolding him, he was this and that he wasn't babying him, and then, um, and then he didn't play no games at all.
Speaker 3:Was he Mexican.
Speaker 4:No, he's a white guy.
Speaker 3:White dude.
Speaker 4:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:Was he from California I?
Speaker 4:think it was from San Diego. Okay, and then him, was he? Crazy. No, he was just military-ish, okay, and then you can tell, as the different OICs, how kind of the atmosphere changed a little bit, and then I guess also the can tell, as the different OICs, how the kind of the atmosphere changed a little bit.
Speaker 3:And then I guess also the Now as the OICs change. Did you observe any of your peers try to kiss ass to the new OICs?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I hated it, I couldn't stand that, and that's one thing that, yeah, I don't know, I never understood. That Like, I don't know, I never seen, because the military you'll see it a little bit kind of, but that was not really because they're the NCOs, the corporals and above. You couldn't like that was very strict and that's one thing I wish was with the federal government, which it should be. You shouldn't be fraternizing yes, because I didn't like that the regular officers you know with maybe the first liners but not the you know, and sometimes there was favoritism all the way to the top, and that's one thing that I dislike or like. On promotion, whenever there was going to be an opening for a promotion, man, like it was unbelievable the way people behave like just seeing that put a distaste in my mouth with like give some examples it's hard for me to sabotaging no, it's hard for me to because so many.
Speaker 4:It's because I mix things up because I, you know, it was so many years, so many different.
Speaker 3:Right, sometimes I mix incidents up, and but that for sure was like but I mean, did you ever see where one of your co-workers would put another co-worker down to make themselves look better?
Speaker 4:yeah, they would talk bad about, about each other, I guess, like politics. Well, I guess it's politics it's human behavior, bro.
Speaker 3:I've come to realize it's human behavior and it's disgusting yeah, and that's why I was like you know what?
Speaker 4:that's not. That's why I had no interest ever. I don't ever had no interest ever. I don't ever want to be in management. I don't ever want to be. I'm just going to stay in the trenches.
Speaker 3:Did you stay in the trenches? Yeah, so tell me about how you went from detaining officer to the other positions that you oh, and then from there what happened?
Speaker 4:9-11 happened, and then they got rid. There was something going on in the upper ranks. Okay.
Speaker 3:Locally or no?
Speaker 4:like the whole agency. So there was issues going on. And then I guess this was the opportunity when L11 came. You know what? Let's get rid of INS. There's too many issues, too many EOs, and I don't know what it was back then. And then we're going to get rid of all that. We're going to create a new. There's our chance. They created Department of Homeland Security, got rid of INS and then they combined the port. It was no longer Customs and Inspectors, it was a combination. And then with us, what was it? Immigration Enforcement Agents, that's where we were. And then Border Patrol. What was it? Immigration enforcement agents, that's where we were. And then Border Patrol was just Border Patrol.
Speaker 3:So you said it broke down to HSI, ero and what else.
Speaker 4:Just those two with us with ICE. So it was HSI and then ERO, and then ERO, though at that time we were immigration enforcement agents. That's where we went to. From detention, we went well, we had to go back to the academy. You passed the academy and now you're part of the new uh, immigration enforcement agent. And then um and then and then from there.
Speaker 3:So when you went to ERO. Did you feel good? Because at that time were you fed up where you were at.
Speaker 4:Well, I was still. I stayed there. They were barely opening it up to get out of the detention. And then, but at that time it was just doing like Sentinella and Calipat interview, and there was a little trailer outside the prisons and you would go inside interview the guys that were getting ready to get out in, like Sentinella and Calipat Interview, and there was a little trailer outside the prisons, yeah, and you would go inside interview the guys that were getting ready to get out, that immigration holds, and then. So that was the first opportunity to get out of the detention center.
Speaker 4:Okay, and then so for me I didn't put in, even though I was fed up. I didn't put in right away to get out Because I was like comfortable, I didn't want to. When am I going to learn all this new stuff over here? So eventually it came to a point yeah, I had to get out. I had to go Because at that time I don't know, in my mid-30s maybe, at that time I was so fed up. I even put in to be. I came and took a test here in San Diego to be Harbor Police, okay.
Speaker 4:And I was already working for the federal government as a detention officer, right, and I was going to go to the city. It made no sense, but I was fed up, I guess, and I wanted a whole new, you know. So I came to do the Harbor Police but I didn't get a high enough score Okay To even be considered, you know to, to keep going so your story is not abnormal, man.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of men that join and women that join these agencies and they reach a point where they freaking, get fed up and they start looking for other options and the.
Speaker 4:The thing I think is because when I went in I went in like man. I didn't even know I could work for the. You know I came in as a I guess an immigrant. I grew up in all the lower. Well first, the poverty of Mexico Right Doesn't even compare to the poverty here. My cousins thought I was rich and we were poor. Right. So then, growing up just poor, poor, poor, and then, when it come time, like oh, I could actually go work for the government. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Like it felt like an honor, like man I get, you know, go work for the government and then so from there you know I was like, so I went in there, you know, with you know a sense of I always had, even till now, even during 9-11, I was working for as an ICE officer, and I I always have, even until now, even during 9-11, I was working as an ICE officer and I wanted to go to— 9-11. Yeah, I even wrote a letter to Washington DC or the White House or something. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Because I said, how can I get back in the military? I wrote a letter and then they wrote a letter back oh, thank you for your service and this and that, and they wrote a letter, right. But I still had this sense of duty, even back. I was already in 10 years. I was going to actually, and I had my spouse at that time and I was actually going to. That's how much I was like I felt a sense of duty to this country. For some reason that I wanted, like I pumped up. I got pumped up in the. I didn't get to go to the Iraqi one because that one happened.
Speaker 4:The first one, the Desert Shield because, it happened three months after I left, and so that one and then I was all trained up and I was just like and then the only thing I got to go back to Camp Pendleton and just help with the School of Infantry. That's the only thing they let me do. So I couldn't go back, Even though I was in active reserve. They could activate so for some reason. But like things happen for everything happens for a reason, dude.
Speaker 4:So it didn't happen, even though, and then, but I've always had this feeling I was pissed out because I didn't get, because I was infantry, so I did all this training, and then I always felt this sense of um of uh, I didn't get to, to to, you know, to go do my mind, what I was supposed to do or what I was trained to do you know, I always tell people that tell me that, that they're better off oh yeah yeah, way better off, because ultimately, what you get with that is gonna stay with you forever so, um, okay, 9-11, I still had that, that sense of always, had this sense of duty.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and then what I figured out later on why did things bother me? So is something wrong with me? Why does everything bother me when things aren't run right and when people like you know this, all this, this, uh incompetence favoritism ne nepotism.
Speaker 4:And nobody really cared. And then I found out, you know what I think? I think it's because most people went in there as a job, or they went in there or they ended up there. To me it was just okay. I have a little more money, I make a little more money.
Speaker 4:I never was going to these except for the security where they were paying minimum wage. That was the only time I said you know what? I got to go here because they make more money. Everything else was just like a sense of duty, sense of duty, and I felt like and then the thing was, I think, where you got to follow your instincts, where I messed up, I think, and I followed comfort, because at the same time I got hired for detention INS, I also got hired for Border Patrol, my Border Patrol, because eventually I passed it and I went through the whole process and I actually I needed to pick a location and that's it. And at that time I was working security there three years and then they picked me up for INS, for a detention officer, and I was like you know what, I'm comfortable here. Yeah, I went for detention officer.
Speaker 4:And I was like you know what, I'm comfortable here. Yeah, I went for the comfort Instead of going border patrol. I think it would have been a better fit for me. Well, because I still had the military-ish.
Speaker 3:Yes and no because they had to deal with their own BS. Yeah, With all the politics.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and then I found out, yeah, those things were going on there too, correct? The what do they call it? The good old boys, they call it everything, dude. So that was just a thing back then of the of that of that era, and uh, so, so, yeah, so I ended up, uh, oh, eventually, 2011, I think I finally came out to the um, what would you call it, though? The non-detained unit. What is?
Speaker 4:that those are the ones that do all the people that are out on bonds, or you go look for the fugitives. You were doing that. Yeah, that was all part of ERO.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's when you told me you were wearing civilian clothes.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so that was part of the non-detained.
Speaker 3:Did you have a badge like tucked underneath? Yeah, the badge, so you're undercover.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you have a badge like tucked underneath. Yeah the badge, so you're undercover. Yeah, well, yeah.
Speaker 3:Would you ever participate in like big raids or with HSI?
Speaker 4:Not really, because it wasn't that much, there wasn't that much, there wasn't. And then it started getting political too, like one time there was a time where we were taking people that had warrants in Mexico for murder. Okay, you two, take this guy, meet up the officials at the border and turn him over. He has a warrant for murder. Later on it turned into a dog and pony show. The people were gleefully, they had to go to TJ, they had to go in a caravan, they had to meet up all these officials, because I went one time and they had to meet. And then there was photos and all kinds of stuff. I was like, wait a minute, we're doing this, like two years ago, just wherever two officers available. Pick up this guy. He has a warrant.
Speaker 4:Meet the counselor at the border, turn him over to the mexican uh, the federals just hand them off yeah, and just hand them off and then next, you know, it turned into like that's one thing I didn't like, I didn't like the politics dude, you got to see you. You got to see the change and the bs man that's why I I stayed where I was at, but I was very observant, and especially being uh, um, I guess, because I guess, being an introvert type person, you're always looking, you always think right, you're always analyzing where do you think these changes, from your vantage point, were coming from?
Speaker 3:like washington dc? Yeah, everything yeah everything was coming down from washington and and filter the filth was filtering into the and you could just see that.
Speaker 4:and it got to the point where, like when, the some of the top brass would come from from san diego, from the field office, or here, san diego to imperial, to the field office. Like I had to get out, I couldn't be there when they were walking around Bro you remind me a lot about myself, man.
Speaker 4:Because the and then you could see some guy. There were certain people I don't want to say their names, but they were like they wanted to acknowledge their rank. But this agency does not deserve that. This agency is not the Marine Corps. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 4:And, but the agency lacks leadership. There's no leadership, there's management, management. It turned out at the end it was just management, because before there was a time when they were hiring like the next level up of supervisors, it had to be because you know leadership skills and you knew your job and you went to you know now you could lead your. But then at the end they didn't care about leadership, it was just management. Could you?
Speaker 3:give me the difference between a leader and a manager.
Speaker 4:A manager is just, he's going to do no matter what, what the next level, even though it's in the policies or not, even though it's in the policies or not even though it's in the policy or not I know yeah was there times that you observed violation of policy yes, but the thing is I didn't know enough about it, I didn't care enough about it.
Speaker 4:I, you know, I didn't, I, you know I was already dealing just with regular life stuff outside of there, right, and then I didn't have the, even the smarts or the know-how, or even the motivation to try to, like you were doing, like attacking the, because they're there.
Speaker 3:I'm not knocking you, bro, because that's your generation, that's your generation, that's my father's generation. You guys did what you guys had at that time. Just grind it out. Just grind that shit out.
Speaker 4:Me, I had well, somebody that for sure doesn't show favoritism. That was the main one. And then who? Who leads by example? And then they know, they know like their job, they know like you know, and then I don't know.
Speaker 3:It's hard for me to no, you're right on the money, bro.
Speaker 4:You're right on the money so, yeah, you could see it's cause. The bad thing is I compare things to, to the and this is not even though to me, because you know I went in there. Oh, you know it's an honor to work for the government and then to see the behavior like that actually bothered me, like, like it was hard for me to like and then eventually I would participate too in the, the normal yeah horse playing, and, and then um, now, when you were participating in stuff that you did not want to participate with, did you not feel right inside?
Speaker 4:yeah, and I was like when did this happen? Why am I? And then, because it was a time, like at the end, where I was like hey, did you hear so-and-so and this and that and like a lot of just like like acting like kids.
Speaker 3:Was that also affecting your personal life?
Speaker 4:You know what? Yeah, everything that because I would hold a lot of things in, I would hold a lot of things in and then eventually it would get to like when I got home because sometimes the kid even though I had my kid and I would give him the attention, but now that I see everything, I wasn't giving him the attention that needed to be given because I still had the stuff from work that would bug me and I was holding stuff in and just stuff that, the stage of stuff at work. And then, like they tell you, you don't bring your personal problems here, but I would take my my work problems right and I wouldn't focus on the that's common, that's extremely common on more that I could have focused on the because of the frustration.
Speaker 4:And now I think, man, maybe I should have just uh, either okay I wasn't, either just okay, I'm not gonna do nothing about anything, or or move on, because those times where you know what I'm gonna, I gotta move on. I gotta go here. I gotta, because I seen people that were fed up and they went. They went to either hsi, okay, or they went to um, you know. They got out of there but were they happier over there?
Speaker 3:I don't know. Okay, well, you know what they say the grass isn't always green on the other side and the only thing about these other places is the hours were way longer, right.
Speaker 4:So then I was like, well, it's not gonna, because I it was. Uh. Well, at that time I was a, I was a single parent, I was taking care of my kid, so I had full custody of him and um, so then that kind of like, even though I could have still made it work. But at the moment I was like, is it worth it? I was too undecisive, and so then I would just have to deal with just holding stuff. In that I seen the unprofessionalism.
Speaker 3:Did you ever see people get wrong, wrongfully terminated? Do people get fired from that job or harassed or retaliated against?
Speaker 4:you know what I I don't. I know there was, but I don't remember right now, like offhand, but there was. Well, I was one, I was, I was one of them because I guess, for some reason, because I wasn't part of the cliques, right, so I wasn't kissing up to the, to the management at that time, to the supervisors, and then from there I guess it seemed like um, because I was, I was, I was quiet, I was serious, I wanted to get things done like the way they're supposed to be done, and then I guess I wasn't fitting, that type of person wasn't fitting in in the environment, and then, uh, but you know, what's crazy is that your personality should be what's running the whole entire organization yeah, and then uh.
Speaker 4:So then uh, there was a one of, I guess, the topper managers, I guess he. He got a hold of one of the lower, the first liners and he told me you know what, and then so they were kind of harassing me for a while. But the bad thing is, okay, I won't, I kind of like not really say much to you because I don't have a middle I'm either gonna, you know okay let you get away with whatever.
Speaker 4:but then, when it comes to that, because it was a couple times where I was gonna fight the the supervisor because of the way they were talking to me- yeah. And it got to that level.
Speaker 3:Do you feel that they were talking down to you or disrespecting you? Yeah, or trying to assert themselves over you because of their rank.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and then that's when it got to that point and then so, but that was a few incidents like that.
Speaker 3:But what happened with the COVID and the vaccination?
Speaker 4:Oh, eventually at the end I ended up, or no? The COVID stuff came and there was already a cluster there with the what was going on back then? I, what was going on? Back then? I forgot what was going on. But the COVID came and then I was watching the news. I was going on with this virus. When it first came out, I was like, okay, what's this virus? I was going to the gym Okay, what's going on with this virus? I was watching the news. Okay, it's over here, it's here, this is happening. I'm going. Okay, it's over here, it's here, this is happening. I'm gonna keep going to the gym.
Speaker 4:Yeah, less people were going to the gym. I was still open, I was going to the gym, I was still doing normal stuff, telling the kids, hey, start eating. Uh, you know, start drinking water, start preparing, because it's some kind of virus. And then, next thing, you know, and then they closed the gym down. And then I was like, and then that's when I started seeing the oh, that's. Another thing that got to me was when all this, the riots with Antifa I was watching all this stuff, yeah, and back then I was an agent and I was getting so mad that the agency was not responding to these situations and I was like, what is God, why are they letting these people just burn down America? Right.
Speaker 4:And then Antifa and this and that, as a matter of fact, what they have, the Proud Boys. Yeah, I was like cheering those guys on because they were the only ones that were standing up, right, and what happens is the federal government or the law enforcement goes after those guys, targets those guys and classifies them as domestic terrorists, and I'm like just to top it off after already seeing the.
Speaker 4:You're losing your damn mind, bro. Yeah, I'm also like you gotta be like what is going. And then I was like, and then uh, so I seen all that and uh, and then the virus was like that's when the virus was the main. And then oh no, but they have a right to to protest, or their, their, their, what racism or whatever their blm or stuff yeah, and I was like you gotta be.
Speaker 4:And then the thing is, because I was already, I was conflicted, I was already I was working there, and then you know, and then I'm working as a, as a, as a federal officer, but I was like you know what, I think I'd rather go out and then I'm gonna resign and and and go fight for the country. That was my main thing is for the country, not for the government. My thing is the Constitution and the founding fathers and the foundations of this government. Because you know, in the Marine Corps they say was it God country, corps Was God for sure? Country always meant the Constitution, no, not the government. And then corps family right, which is the marine. Corps was your family. And that's the way I interpret those.
Speaker 3:Uh, do you believe having a government is essential to the united states of america?
Speaker 4:yeah, because I look at society, they're. It's because of society they let themselves. It's more of a set up. A lot of things are like the drugs and the. You know it's out there, people fought for it and they're. And because government that gives an excuse for there to be a government even bigger than it has to be, it's manufactured chaos. And then people are because I see sometimes, because that's why I'm like you know what, I still feel. I don't feel like I'm down to a level where I'm just going to be a civilian. I still feel a sense of duty because of the country, correct, even though I think the country has already gone. I think it's been gone.
Speaker 3:Do you believe mainstream media? No. Did you ever reach a point where you realized they were lying?
Speaker 4:Yeah, a long time ago.
Speaker 3:A long time ago, like when.
Speaker 4:Like 20 years ago, 15 years ago, okay yeah, even back then when I was in the Marine Corps, the things I remember is don't believe everything you read, don't trust the government. From this stuff I was hearing from and that stuff was always in my head and what else, and these little sayings, you know that the sticks and stones may break your bones.
Speaker 3:If the government is here and says if you need their help or something.
Speaker 4:I don't know why I feel this dedication to, to the, to the country, oh, I feel you bro but, and the thing is, what makes it funny is because I wouldn't. I wasn't even born in this country, correct, and when I was seeing all this stuff going on with the black lives matter, and I was like, when other people, the americans, I wasn't even born here and I'm pissed off. When is the the country people? Aren't those the original, the main, the country people, the you know, the you know?
Speaker 3:Do you believe well, not the ones you're talking about. Do you believe Americans, patriotic Americans, are built of a different breed.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but it's hard to. I don't know.
Speaker 3:Know because I've seen some of these patriot types oh, not those guys, not the they seem kind of uh, no, not the ones that are out there doing, you know, weird stuff, but I'm talking about like, like yourself, man, yeah, uh, that would basically die for their country everybody's out for themselves nowadays yeah, I don't think there's enough.
Speaker 4:Uh, even some of these. Sometimes these youtubes pop up about these special forces, these ex-seals guys oh they're.
Speaker 3:They're beefing right now, but I was like what is going on?
Speaker 4:like women and then I'm like, and then they started getting brave with the with uh because of the palestine protests yeah and I'm like why didn't they speak up when the real ones were going on? Like you know, these are mainly women that are protesting whatever's going on there with the issues with Palestine and all this. Yeah. And those are mainly campuses. Women None of these guys popped up during the Black Lives Matter and the guys that are going to fight you.
Speaker 3:Now some people might say that that's racist. Is it a racism thing or is it an actions thing?
Speaker 4:No, it's an actions, it's a racism Like the first time I ever heard about racism when I was in the marine corps. I got I got um racist remarks did they call you?
Speaker 4:uh, derogatory words yeah, like like beaner and like, but that never right like. And then that's the first time I was exposed to the. I guess they called the black card when I started seeing the. Yeah, back then, like I never. I didn't know nothing about that because I witnessed it in cuba and the guy got, they took him out of our unit and he was the general's driver though the year he was there or the rest of the time he was there in cuba he was just driving the the, not the general, the colonel yeah and uh, that's the first time I heard about that I didn't know about, like, that's why I seen people the way they were acting towards black people.
Speaker 4:Oh, I don't want to, that's just the way. I mean, I'm from that area, so that's the way I speak. But, um, I could see the, the hesitation to to address, you know, that population, but not with the mexicans or not with anybody else.
Speaker 3:So, for some reason, uh, just with that, that population, um, now, when it came to uh, the vaccine and all these political changes, were you forced to get the vaccine?
Speaker 4:yeah, because that's when I was, I was, I was listening, they were trying to when they were missing. You know, trying to intimidate you right, first at the beginning, trying to get you to, and then because I was watching this every day. I was watching the and then Biden, what he had to say, and the governor and man that put so much. I think because right now my nerves like I got a nerve issue that happened because of all the accumulated yeah, yeah definitely Like something happened.
Speaker 3:My wires went haywire a little bit. No, it's all the neurons or whatever it's called.
Speaker 4:So something happened. But because I was watching that every day, I was listening, and then I was also thinking, what am I going to do? And then, man, should I get that, I don't want to get that? Because I was scared of the shot. And then I was like man until then. Then that one day the president came out everybody will. I was gonna go and then resign that out. That day I was gonna tell you know what who was the president at that time?
Speaker 4:biden. And then, because he's under a chain of command, right, he's the, the top guy, and then so his order goes directly to. You know what he says, his executive order. You could try to challenge it, but but you know, as an unlawful order, correct. But so then I was like man. So then okay, I'll, just because they keep sending me this email, this task force, the COVID task force, out of Florida, which was made up of different INS personnel, and they would send these emails every day, every day, every day, until the day came that, uh, that I actually got reprimanded at the time you got reprimanded had already a lot of other people taking the shot yeah, a lot of people.
Speaker 4:Some were like it's not going to do nothing to you, don't matter. And then there was the group that were like I don't want to lose my job, I don't want to get it, but you know, I got my kids and you know this and that. And then you got the ones that put in for the exemptions religious and medical but I was like I'm not going to play, I'm not going to say if they were honest about their religious views and that's what caused them not to get the vaccine, but I'm like I'm not going to play with God because I take God serious, correct. So I'm not going to because I could have did that, because I knew it was a game, right, you put in for that. Okay, they don't have to deal with you for a while. You're waiting on your exemption, right, and then everybody's covered. I threw a curveball I think I was the only one that I know of office San Diego that just didn't want to get it and um, dude.
Speaker 3:I commend you for that dude.
Speaker 4:And then I even did the. I did everything they asked for, cause you have to, uh, put your status, what's going on, you know, did you get the shot? They have the special website. You log into and you input your, you know your status, or what's going on. I did all that until the day came Well, I'm not, not gonna get the vaccine. I can't, I'm not gonna, this is the part I can't do. So then I didn't do it. And then what they get you for the typical um insubordination yeah, we're not in support of failure to follow through.
Speaker 4:I don't know something. And then, so I got reprimanded. And, uh, so I got reprimanded. And and then, uh, so after that I was already like. I was already like, as a matter of fact, I was so stressed out I was getting like like shot. I never found out what that was. I will get like my eyeball and it would throw like a shock all the way to the back of my head. Yeah, and my eyeball will go like this and then like a shock all the way back. To this day I google it. Uh, I don't know if it was some kind of stroke.
Speaker 4:Something was going on, and that's when I say you know what, I gotta leave. I can't. Even when I wrote the email I wrote you know what, due to my mental health and this and that and right, I wrote a pretty decent email which now would probably help to show that I had to leave, that I had to leave, that I had to leave because of the, the shot. It's called constructive discharge. When you fail, you have no choice. Right, and you left. So that's why it's still.
Speaker 4:I mean, if I could get it going to the federal court, that part's going to be covered where it shows that, because I tried, I tried to, you know like I ain't got no choice, it's affecting my mental health, right. And then I was like I don't want to. And then eventually I just you know what I gotta leave, put in my like within two or three weeks, put everything out and then I was out retired. Yeah well, I claimed my retirement because I at that time I was messed up too. I couldn't go out and just get a job, right, that was my. I was all, I was all like, I was all stressed out and that was two years ago yeah, 22 february 22 february 2022, and how have you been since then?
Speaker 3:does it feel good to be?
Speaker 4:the first year I was just in my, even my, my I think my kid is watching this. I hate this, but because my kid lives with me still, so for a year straight, for sure, for a year straight, I was in my bed, just laying in my bed, watching YouTube about the vaccines, about the current events, about the riots, about the. You know, I'm watching all this stuff and then so I'm just laying in bed all day. I go to the gym. I feel good, come, I'm just laying in bed all day. I go to the gym. I feel good, come back just laying there. And then I did that for like a year straight and then after that I still like, if I get motivated to do something, oh, you know, I'm gonna do this today and then I, my body just shuts down, like, like I get motivated. That's why I think my, my adrenaline and stuff, whatever they call it I think I got to a point where where I forgot what they call it, like it gets burned out because you were in a fight for too long. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And I think but I mentioned it to the doctors they don't pay me no mind because they see my blood works good, they see I'm in shape, so they don't really pay me no mind, that's all doctors.
Speaker 4:They don't really pay me no mind. That's all doctors. So then, after like you know what, forget that I don't trust anything. I don't trust the medical, so I'm just going to. Maybe my body just needs recovery, maybe it went through so much stress, it just needs recovery. And now I feel like a little like I could now start. I'm starting to like you feel better now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like you know what, okay, now I just got to start doing these things that that that you know I'm being like kind of pushed like internally to to at least tell my story of uh no, bro, I commend you for coming on the show. Dude, I thank you like. I know it was tough for you to do it, but I told you the story was gonna be amazing, dude yeah so how do you feel after talking about it?
Speaker 4:You know it feels good, even though some of it because it brings back, you know, because you still get angry a lot of the. That's the thing, like if I was to do things over, maybe I wouldn't just hold things in, I would deal with them and not just you know what, and I think that's the thing that kind of messed me up a little bit.
Speaker 3:And see, I told you you were here for a reason, man, because your story is going to actually help individuals that are experiencing the same thing right now, man.
Speaker 4:They're going to have some choices to make yeah, and just anybody's interested in to go into, like, like the federal law enforcement stuff. Like, just know, if you go in it is just a job and to make money and for all that you're going to do good, but if you go in there because of national security, because of of the constitution, the country, you're going to be disappointed and then you're going to be miserable. Um, so that's cool.
Speaker 3:Well, I want to thank you for coming on the show. Dude man, we're definitely keep in touch, bro. Yeah, thank you. There you guys have it folks. Man, I told you it was going to be a banger. If you like what you saw, make sure you hit that subscribe button. Love you guys.
Speaker 2:Keep pushing forward unhinged line, hector's legend engraved living life raw never been tamed, from the hood to the truth entails pen hector.
Speaker 3:Bravo. Unhinged story never ends, thank you.
