The Female CO Experience: Breaking Barriers in a Male-Dominated System

When Cynthia walked away from her thriving nail salon business at 36 years old to become a correctional officer, she wasn't chasing adrenaline or power – she was seeking stability for her young daughter. What followed was a 17-year journey through California's prison system that tested her resilience, professionalism, and humanity in ways she never anticipated.

From her first days at Salinas Valley State Prison where she discovered weapon caches hidden behind classroom posters to the mental health units at the Substance Abuse Treatment Facility where suicidal inmates awaited her arrival each morning, Cynthia's story illuminates the unique challenges female officers face in a male-dominated environment. "Your command presence is so important," she explains, revealing how professional demeanor and consistent communication became her most effective tools in maintaining safety and respect.

Through Cynthia's experiences, we witness the evolution of California's correctional system – from policy changes making indecent exposure no longer grounds for administrative segregation to the rapid promotion of inexperienced officers into leadership positions. Her frustrations with these shifts reveal deeper questions about safety, rehabilitation, and the purpose of incarceration itself. As she navigated increasingly dangerous conditions, Cynthia found her health, relationships, and personality transforming in concerning ways.

For those considering corrections work or already in the field, Cynthia offers hard-earned wisdom: "Don't get fixated on that overtime," she warns, having seen too many colleagues burn out chasing material goals at the expense of their wellbeing. Her advice to maintain outside interests, leave work at work, and pursue education resonates as both practical career guidance and a formula for survival.

Whether you're fascinated by corrections, considering a career change, or simply interested in understanding the human experience behind prison walls, Cynthia's journey offers rare insight into what it truly means to dedicate yourself to one of society's most challenging professions. What would you sacrifice for stability, and at what point would you walk away?

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:01

Hector Bravo. Unhinged Chaos is now in session.

Speaker 2 0:11

Welcome back to our channel Warriors. We are still growing. Today, another banger for you guys. We have a special guest today, a female former correctional officer. I'm glad we have her on the show because normally it's male-dominated. Even the career field is male dominated, so it'll be good to hear a perspective from a former CEO who started her career in 2002 at Salinas Valley State Prison and would eventually transfer to SADF Substance Abuse Treatment Facility. So today we have none other than Cynthia. Welcome, cynthia.

Speaker 1 0:42

Hi, how are you, Hector? Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 0:44

Cool, I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you were able to make that transportation over here. I'm really honored that you were to do that. You're welcome, thank you. So where did you grow up at?

Speaker 1 1:01

I grew up in Fresno that's a good thing, that's a good thing and attended Clovis. It's that fine line between upper and kind of a which one's a upper. Clovis is like your La Jolla and your, okay, You're, you're, you know. I'm glad you let me know about that boundary. And then there's Fresno, which is like one street of a boundary, that just so where are you?

Speaker 2 1:23

Did you?

Speaker 1 1:23

grow up in Fresno or Clovis, both, because I went to Clovis schools all my life. But I grew up in Fresno, which was like one street of a boundary over. How did you get to the school Bus?

Speaker 2 1:34

Yes, yes, yes, were there other people from Fresno that ended up going to Clovis, absolutely because of the boundaries. Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 1:41

Yes, so there's always like these little like comments on was there comments on uh now on um instagram and tiktok, like you know, people who were raised in fresno and uh say they're from clovis and okay, that's funny it's always a thing.

Speaker 2 1:58

It's a thing, but yeah, cool. At what time did it dawn on you that you were going to join Corrections?

Speaker 1 2:10

At a really early age, when I was in high school, I was really interested in the beauty business, so I was. That was my goal is to somehow get involved. I loved, you know, the singing, the arts and the whole fashion industry, so I went as far as touring schools in LA, fitm and all these things when I was still in high school Okay, wow. Then after graduation, I ended up in beauty college and I became a nail tech. So at 18, 19, I had my license and back then the business was thriving.

Speaker 2 2:49

What were you doing? Manicures and pedicures, yes.

Speaker 1 2:52

And at 21, I opened up my own salon in Clovis and had eight technicians tanning. It was a full-on service salon Wow. But back then I didn't have my daughter and I didn't have any sort of obligation. I was just young and doing well. And so when I had my daughter at 28 years later, I was like, okay, I got to do something a little more solid. I've got to make my foundation for her, her foundation, our foundation solid. I need retirement, I need this, I need that. So by that time I ended up in that business for maybe 12, 13 years, like I said, at 33. And it was about that time, when she was two or three, when I said I need to make a career, change Something. But I always loved school, I always loved studying. The plan that I did just worked for me at the moment.

Speaker 2 3:54

Were you enjoying what you were doing? Absolutely Okay.

Speaker 1 3:57

But my daughter came first, Absolutely. So it's like what's going to happen when I can't chase? When you're self-employed, you are chasing money. That's what you do you chase money.

Speaker 2 4:06

You're preaching to the choir right now. Yeah, you're chasing, you're hustling, you're grinding, yes, every single day, absolutely.

Speaker 1 4:12

You wake up and you know you got to make sure you know, especially when you have a child. So my mother said to me you know you need to call your cousin Mona, because she's a CEO at Pleasant Valley. Okay, and she's been there like five years. Just call her. You know, cindy, I think you'd be good at it. You have that personality, I think you'll be good at it. And so I called her and she just started me through the process. Her name is Mona Esparza and she was like my kind of like my little. She took me under her wing Mentor.

Speaker 1 4:45

Yes, mentor and guided me through the whole process as I was going through. So when I began to go through the process, that was in like 98, 99. Okay, my daughter was born in 95. So, yeah, 98, 99. Um, my daughter was born in 95. So, yeah, 98, 99. Um, I decided to take one class at city because I didn't do the high school in college like all my friends did. Right, they were like already graduated from fresno state and doing their little thing and I went to nail school and was just kind of yeah, but doing well, just as well as they were you know, but there was something missing that I needed to to.

Speaker 1 5:27

I needed to have more substance and more experience to make things happen and be better, you know. So I took a class at Fresno City and it was like, it was like creme five, it was like juvenile delinquency or something At that point.

Speaker 2 5:43

I know you said you had an artistic side to you. You love the arts, you love beauty, but was there a adrenaline seeking side? To you still?

Speaker 1 5:51

Yes, Okay. So I honestly was thinking about being a veterinarian because I love animals, but then I saw Berkeley and I'm like I'm not going all the way to Berkeley.

Speaker 1 6:02

That's a lot of work. So I took the class and I did well and I loved it. And so I'm like I'm not going all the way to Berkeley. That's a lot of work. So I took the class and I did well and I loved it. And so I'm like you know, and I remember telling my parents, which they're both gone now. God bless them, rip. But I told them, you know, I just don't see me going into a career without school. I've just never been like that.

Speaker 2 6:20

Right.

Speaker 1 6:20

I feel like you need to have all the dynamics and the logistics, all that behind your career.

Speaker 2 6:27

Now, was that based on you wanted to be prepared or because that was the social norm?

Speaker 1 6:32

I wanted to be prepared. Okay, that's good. So I took the one class I did. Well, that was 98 of fall 99, I enrolled full time and started the process of going through the department.

Speaker 2 6:47

California Department of Corrections yes, without the R CDC.

Speaker 1 6:52

Okay. Now, during that time I was picked up as an intern at Fresno Adult Probation and so they kept asking me to come back back, like I do a semester, they say come back. So they gave me my office, I had my cards, I was literally a PO for the adult field, but I was handling like 3000 cases of misdemeanor throughout the whole Valley. 3000?, 3000. 3000 misdemeanor cases of I'm talking. You know all.

Speaker 2 7:24

Back then were computers prevalent, or was it all paperwork at that?

Speaker 1 7:26

time there was a little bit of there was a lot of paperwork, a lot of paperwork, a lot of paperwork, and so I did that for like a year and a half, and, as I was going through the hiring process, so I the good thing was I learned a lot of casework. I learned how to read minute orders. I learned how to read minute orders. I learned how to write reports to the court and write to the judges. I learned how to do so many things in that year and a half.

Speaker 2 8:01

So long story short. I ended up graduating and I failed my first background because I had too many speeding tickets. Oh same, I failed CHPs because too many speeding tickets.

Speaker 1 8:07

And so I remember my background investigator calling me and saying Cynthia, you're a great candidate, but you got to get rid of speeding tickets, and so why don't you just let these kind of go?

Speaker 2 8:19

away.

Command Presence: A Female CO's Toolbox

Speaker 1 8:20

Yeah. And so with my mentality and the way I think, yeah, of course I was a little bit frustrated, but I was thinking, well, now I can just get school done Right and not be trying to do both. You know, so fast forward to when I hit the cow and all that, I was already done with city getting ready. I did a semester at Fresno State.

Speaker 2 8:50

For the crowd out there. She was driving and she hit a cow. I was driving. I hit a cow, an actual cow, a real cow yes.

Speaker 1 9:00

So when I finally passed my PAT that day I was already. I couldn't go to Corcoran because I'd already missed that day as a Pi. So when they called me for Salinas Valley, they allowed me surprisingly to sit on it for a day. I said can I think?

Speaker 2 9:24

about this, so they gave you an offer and you asked them for more time.

Speaker 1 9:27

I asked them for one more day.

Speaker 2 9:28

And what did they say? They said okay.

Speaker 1 9:30

Okay, there was only nine slots left, wow. So I got off the phone and I went on my computer and I looked at universities. I was thinking about school. Like I just register, you know, I just I need to know if I can do school there and transfer my units, and I did so I got into CSUMB, which is California University of Monterey Bay. I went to the academy, everything was all set. I had it all worked out Part-time at Salinas Valley, go to school, bring my daughter blah blah blah. Well, about three weeks into the academy they walked in and said all of you are full time now.

Speaker 2 10:10

Okay.

Speaker 1 10:10

So it changed my whole plan.

Speaker 2 10:14

Was it difficult for you attending that academy with a daughter?

Speaker 1 10:19

No, because I had full support from her father and my parents. Okay, that's a good thing, but was it?

Speaker 2 10:25

difficult in the sense of like missing Absolutely, missing Absolutely, and homesickness and separation. Four months.

Speaker 1 10:34

Oh wow, it was the 16 weeks. At that time it was In 2002, it was 16 weeks, and so we made a big calendar board, and every time I'd come home, I put 16 weeks on.

Speaker 1 10:45

There we put something and we'd do like a project or something, and I had my manicure and stuff licensed. I still am licensed. So on our weekends it was like we're going to paint your nails, do a pedicure, nice, and so. But my plan was to take her up there as soon as I graduated or whatever, and figured out a place to stay. And back then, you know everybody was rooming with everybody and you know I was older. I'm 36 years old. I wasn't going to be rooming with a bunch of youngsters.

Speaker 2 11:13

Yeah, that's right you mentioned you went to the academy at the age of 36.

Speaker 1 11:16

I went to the academy at the age of 36.

Speaker 2 11:19

Absolutely. Do you feel that attending the academy?

Speaker 1 11:30

at that age was more beneficial than a young 21-year-old. If I'm going to look at my life because it's hard to place that on every single individual, because I know a lot of 23-year-olds that are really, really smart and know how to do things you know who've done everything but for your situation for my situation cool it was good. I would have never been that type to grow to graduate and go go to college. I would have got kicked out I would.

Speaker 1 11:57

I was my mind, you know. I was like let's hustle, let's get self-employed, make some money, and let's just move and roll right right. So that worked for me. But you know, when you have a responsibility you have to think long-term.

Speaker 2 12:11

And it's not about you anymore, it's about that child.

Speaker 1 12:15

So where was I at now?

Speaker 2 12:18

You were talking about that you were. They walked into the class and said you guys are all now full-time.

Speaker 1 12:22

And now we're full-time. So in my mind I'm like, oh no, I'm registered for school. What am I going to do? This is all now my whole plan, you know, because I really wanted to get through school. I'd already done one semester at State, so I'm like I'm not leaving this open, I've got to finish, okay. So I ended up when I report. So I reported full time. But the blessing out of it was when I got to Salinas Valley, I ended up with weekends off and a job in education. Charlie Yard, education GP.

Speaker 2 13:01

H04 Education H-O-4?.

Speaker 1 13:04

Education, charlie, education level four Education 129 inmates. And right away when I got to the yard, I'd only been there like maybe a week. The sergeant approached me and he said we have an officer who's going to. He got picked up to be, or he's going to do, counseling time, acting time as a counselor. Would you like to fit, fill in to be the education officer? Okay, and you know, behind him for four months. So I was only on the, I was only on, like the, the yard yard, for maybe I don't know a few weeks, and during those few weeks you don't even know, hector, I was like Lord, why am I even here? I walked into that yard.

Speaker 2 13:51

Before we jump into touching down at Selena's. It seemed like you're very meticulous, goal-oriented, and do you not like curveballs? Like when they told you it's going to be full-time? Was that like? Did that? Was it?

Speaker 1 14:03

Well, yeah, because I already had it like a very, very OCD number one.

Speaker 2 14:07

Okay, yeah, so like meticulous, that's a good thing, though. Like to be fixated on a goal.

Speaker 1 14:11

And so, but I made it work, Correct, I made it work. I ended up doing one semester there.

Speaker 2 14:16

Okay.

Speaker 1 14:20

And I got like Salinas. I was full-time in school, and I had my daughter up there by then.

Speaker 2 14:25

No, you have good work, ethic.

Speaker 1 14:27

It was a juggle. I think back now and I'm like how did I do it? But you know what, when it's meant to be, and you're doing all the right things and you are making sacrifices and you are thinking about your family first, there's a way that the Lord just steps in and he makes it all work Absolutely.

Speaker 1 14:42

There's a way that the Lord just steps in Absolute 100%, and so I had people really coming in and helping me like, hey, I know a babysitter in this part of town so I would get up in the morning, drive my daughter to school, head down the 101, get to Salinas, get off. But you know what? It was a whole different. I loved going there. I loved it and I loved going there I loved it.

Speaker 2 15:04

So Salinas Valley has always had the reputation of being extremely violent, rocking and rolling busy. So you get there and you said you landed on Charlie Yard. You know what I recently texted a friend recently. He's like yeah, I started on Charlie Yard over there, level 4, gp 180.

Speaker 1 15:29

When you walked into a prison yard and you saw everybody in blue, what were you thinking? Why was I there? I'm a female. Well, it was mixed emotions. I was proud that I made it there, number one.

Speaker 1 15:45

I was flexing a little bit because, okay, I'm a female, I'm here, I did it, I'm 36. And not very many people at my age at that time would be able to handle all the different. But you know, some of us are wired that way Correct and some of us it's hard to. You can't become that. You're either that I believe in or you're not. I mean, some can grow to be into that. I don't know. I don't know how to explain it, but I'm always been very, very career oriented and goal oriented.

Speaker 2 16:12

So for me to take that leap, but you're walking into a jungle now, a concrete jungle. Were you very well aware of the possibilities that could happen?

Finding Weapons at Salinas Valley

Speaker 1 16:25

Yes, I was. I was aware of it, but it didn't really. When it came face to face with it, it didn't intimidate me, I was okay with it. That's a good thing. Some people are built like that. Yeah, my third day at Salinas, I was involved in 128 Crip Blood Riot and I saw two people who were shaking hands, going to the chow hall, stabbing each other on the way back, and it was just exactly how I said it and it was like from here to that wall and I was just Was that?

Speaker 2 16:54

on.

Speaker 1 16:54

Charlie Yard yes, and they were coming back into my building.

Speaker 2 16:57

Can you explain to us what are some of the things you hear or see during a giant melee like that? All right, sounds pepper spray.

Speaker 1 17:11

Back in those days we had a lot more. We were able to utilize a lot more pyrotechnics. We had a lot more things also. We had triple chasers. We had all those different bombs, and they took all that away from us. They started to take them and eliminate. By the time I got to SADF, we didn't have any of that. We had the .40 and your mini. We were still with the .38 revolver and all that, but even the impact in munitions, all that stuff was just changing, and so it was completely different than Salinas. Salinas, I felt like we had all the tools, but even they started to kind of pull those out when I left.

Speaker 2 17:54

So let me ask you this how important are use of force options as a correctional officer?

Speaker 1 18:02

You have to know them like the back of your head. I still know mine. Yeah, I know them like the back of your head. I still know mine. Yeah, I know my toolbox. There you go and when you carry yourself with like I said, you come in and you're smart, smarter. I don't want to say you're smarter, there's a lot of. I have so many supervisors who didn't go to college and they're freaking good cops, okay.

Speaker 1 18:27

I'm not saying that, but as a female, for me, this is what I this was going to bring out the best in me, Absolutely Okay.

Speaker 2 18:33

So I forgot. So right now you mentioned toolbox. I haven't heard that in a minute. Can you explain to us what are some tools that would be in a correctional officer's toolbox? Absolutely.

Speaker 1 18:48

So um number one, it's going to be your command presence.

Speaker 2 18:52

Oh my God, I already love where this is going.

Speaker 1 18:55

Your command presence is so important because when an inmate or anyone sees you, it doesn't even matter if you're, you know if you're in your facility. You have a presence about you that is professional. You know how to talk, speak and communicate with these inmates. You build a rapport, you are empathetic, not sympathetic. There's all these little things that you have to remember Facts. They are not your friends. However, they are a human being and you have to show that their life is significant. You know they're here and our job is to make sure that not only that we're okay, but that they're okay and that you know it's safety and security for ourselves, the public and the inmates. Facts Between each other, the whole, all the way around.

Speaker 2 19:47

Right, it's almost like a profession it's a profession yeah, absolutely. I think we've gotten away from that, though or the mindset yeah, it's a career, it's a profession.

Speaker 1 19:59

Absolutely. Presence is on point and it allows them to look at you in actually a professional. They treat you different, correct.

Speaker 2 20:13

They do and they respect you. Different, as opposed to being, you know, wrinkly uniform.

Speaker 1 20:17

Absolutely.

Speaker 2 20:17

Looking like a sack of shit. Excuse my French, but they can tell.

Speaker 1 20:23

They can tell your grooming standards is so important, right? So your command presence. And then, of course, your verbal, your verbal judo, whatever they call it, your verbal communication, absolutely your verbal judo, whatever. However, they change the vocabulary to where you don't speak at a person, you speak to a person. And when you speak to a person, you have way more. You have way more control of a situation and you get a lot more better results than to start talking at them. And that even goes for between the COs and the administration, your superiors, because I've had or even at homes, but relationships Wherever Were you, with their children, absolutely.

Speaker 1 21:04

So you know, and me and I I'm a talker and I like to say what I got to say, so sometimes I got to stop myself and go, you know what. That wasn't the correct way to come out, that to say that or to speak that. So by the time that I got into the department I had my education and I knew, you know, a lot of penal code. I knew a lot, you know, and I knew a lot of penal code. I knew a lot and I studied a lot of serial killers and did all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 21:27

Like who Like Jeffrey Dahmer.

Speaker 1 21:29

My professor at Fresno State was Professor Hickey Professor Hickey and Dr Scrappett and they were like psych of crime professors who had been like my one professor, dr Scrappock. She was at Ted Bundy's execution in Florida.

Speaker 1 21:50

She was there sat on it. So I just learned so much and, and of course I love school, so I appreciated going through the forensics and learning all that stuff. So, anyhow, back to the toolbox. The command presence You're verbal, now of course we all know. When that fails, you start going into your use of force, like your upper. You know which is going to be your physical restraints. That would be next, I believe, if they're not going to obey. You know, right Right, your physical restraints.

Speaker 1 22:24

That would be next, I believe, if they're not going to obey Right Right your physical restraints and then you go into the less lethal and then you go into lethal and, however, our goal is to stay at the command presence and the judo right. Our goal as an officer is to stay within those first two without escalating.

Speaker 2 22:41

That's our goal, but it doesn't always work out that way.

Speaker 1 22:45

But to de-escalate right. That's what we're supposed to do yeah. So I just learned that me being consistent and the way I am right now speaking is the way I was in the prison. I was always very, very I left all my stuff at home as much as I could. Yeah as much as I could, yeah, and I always follow through with the things that I communicated with the inmates that I was going to do.

Speaker 2 23:16

How important is that? How important is it if a correctional officer says something? How important is it that they stick to their word and or explain why it didn't happen?

Speaker 1 23:27

It's your survival. It's your, because inmates do nothing all day except watch you Facts. They know when you and your partners don't get along. They know when you're lazy, Yep. They know. If you went out the night before and you're all hungover, Yep. They know if you're out the night before and you're all hung over, Yep. They know if you're fighting with your they. They know everything you know. And so when you can come in and be consistent, yeah, we all have bad days and there's times when I would just blow up and say stuff, but you know what? They'd give me a pass. They're like you know what, Go home and take a nap.

Speaker 2 24:02

We know it's.

Speaker 1 24:02

Yeah, but it's very important to know all that stuff because that's what's going to save you, and I believe that the more consistent you are, it spreads. It's contagious too, you know it can like. When I worked on Charlie Yard at SADF, I worked in the upper yard, GP level four. I was the control booth officer for three years. I never used my weapon once because we had that building down so good. It was me. It was myself, Officer Magallon, who's a female who had a lot of time, and Officer Reyna. They were my floor cops and we had a very good work. We knew how to run that together. They taught me, though I was new, and they taught me.

Handling Disrespect in a Prison Setting

Speaker 2 24:58

There's nothing better than when all three partners are on the same page, or even when all the watches are on the same page.

Speaker 1 25:04

Yes, and it was just a good building. Partners are on the same page, or even when all the watches are on the same page. Yes, and it was just a good building. And then I finally bit out um, and I went um, I don't know, I was looking for different days off for school, I think, or something, and um, but as soon as we all left that building, it started going off. It started going off, it's funny how that works. No, bad, like really bad.

Speaker 2 25:29

What would be some I mean for the newer correctional officers watching that do not know how to interact with an inmate or even carry themselves? Let's say an inmate walked up to you and said hey, co, when is the packages coming, or when is such and such, but you don't know the answer. What would be a good response?

Speaker 1 25:50

I would probably just ask the inmate you know, like you know, what is your situation. Is it your package? Is it everybody's package? You?

Speaker 2 25:57

know what's going on.

Speaker 1 25:58

If it's yours specifically, then I'll dig deeper to see what's happening. But if it's everybody's, you know, then because some of these inmates, they just want to get close to you and talk to you and ask you stuff, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm glad you pointed that out too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I'm glad you pointed that out too. They already know the answer.

Speaker 1 26:13

They're just wanting to be you know stupid, a thorn in your side, as I would say yeah, yeah, and then you just you know, but I was always very, very you know, I wanted to go to work and just handle everything and go home and know that I did the best that I could do, and sometimes I would just be so burned out and disappointed because around you you want people to be like you and work like you, and that doesn't happen.

Speaker 2 26:40

Well, it's a big giant agency.

Speaker 1 26:43

Well, I'm talking about just like in your unit, right? Because in the EOP units where I did my last five years in the EOP unit at SADF, there's six officers that cover that unit. You have four EOP officers for clusters A, b, c, d and then you have the control panel, two In each cluster. There's an office where each officer is supposed to sit and deal with their inmates. Where each officer is supposed to sit and deal with their inmates. Well, guess what?

Speaker 2 27:16

They all sit at one table.

Speaker 1 27:17

Nobody wanted to sit out and nobody would sit in their office. I think there was maybe my partner, dallas Race, who I love. He would sit in. He retired about a year before me. He had already done time military time, so he was done Older man, like 60-something. He would sit in his office and so the inmates would see that they're like you know, you sit in your office with all of us in here, with the grill gate shut and your door open. I said that's because I have confidence that you know I wasn't afraid to be in there.

Speaker 1 27:52

Yeah.

Speaker 2 27:55

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Speaker 1 28:14

I'd be like, hey, sit down, let's talk what's going on. You know we'll be, you know I'm like, all right, well, this is what we're going to do, and if it doesn't happen tomorrow or the next day, please remind me. Yeah, but they knew that I had been a counselor. I mean, I had acting time as a counselor.

Speaker 2 28:30

Oh, you did by the time you got to SADF. So before we jump to SADF, you mentioned.

Speaker 1 28:42

EOPs. What are some of the differences you noticed between GP inmates and EOP inmates? Whining, crying it's horrible, it's horrible. Especially, the EOP inmates were not in our level of care. They were too. They should not have been in our level of care.

Speaker 2 29:02

Some of those inmates Should they have been in a higher?

Speaker 1 29:05

level of care. They should have been like at Atascadero, like at Ash, absolutely.

Speaker 2 29:07

So they were legitimately mentally unstable, and I say legitimately because I've seen a bunch of fakers in my time.

Speaker 1 29:13

Yes, there were a lot of them that were pulling ruses and they were malingering.

Speaker 2 29:17

I'm not a doctor, but I know what malingering is. Yes, yeah, yes absolutely so these guys were off the rockers it was horrible.

Speaker 1 29:27

It got to the point towards my last few, like my last year in that building, to where, um, I'd be walking you, you know, I don't know. Have you ever been to Sative?

Speaker 2 29:36

Never.

Speaker 1 29:37

Okay, it's huge. It's like a mile long. The prison is seven yards. Seven yards, it's A through. F, a through F is the design like a and it just goes straight across, straight across, and they have two entrances with the administration way over here. So, in order to get to your building, different parking lots, yeah, or?

Speaker 1 29:54

same parking lot, but one entrance. So you got to drive all the way, pull in through the guard shack, show your ID, blah, blah, blah, which they never did before until I don't know, all of a sudden. So then you drive all the way in park. If you're going to be on this side, ABCD, then you park on this parking lot. You so on this side, ABCD, then you park on this parking lot. You know the west, there's Westgate and Eastgate, Okay. And then, once you get in your gate, you got to walk another quarter of a mile to get to your building. Well, I would hear the alarms going off already on Frank Yard thinking mother, I wouldn't even put my lunch bag down.

Speaker 2 30:30

What did those alarms sound like?

Speaker 1 30:31

Like the police sirens, or like the buzzing Boo, okay. Okay, now, at Salinas Valley they're different ones, so you kind of knew where they came from by the way they chirped.

Speaker 2 30:41

Yeah.

Speaker 1 30:42

They're all the same at SADF, so you don't know where it's coming from. Yeah, okay, so, but I already knew there was someone in the hole when I heard that. I always knew there was going to be somebody a suicide in a holding tank in program so I would go in and I would just sign in and out and go where am I taking this guy? It got to that point. I already knew I was going to be gone at TTA somewhere on some.

Speaker 2 31:04

Because an inmate was making suicidal allegations.

Speaker 1 31:07

Yes, it got yes.

Speaker 2 31:09

Three a day? At least three a day. What year was this?

Speaker 1 31:12

2000,. Right before I retired 16, 14, 15, 16.

Speaker 2 31:16

Man, I feel like we missed a big, giant gap, though, because we went straight from Salinas Valley all the way to Sadef.

Speaker 1 31:21

Well, because Sadef, remember, I told you I was working in the control booth with my two partners. Okay, so that was at Sadef. At Sadef, yeah, when I got to.

Speaker 2 31:31

SADF, yes, so when you got to SADF, did you experience a culture change or culture shock? Absolutely? What were some of them?

Speaker 1 31:40

And I believe the reason why I kind of left out a lot of Salinas is because we were always locked down for like a year.

Speaker 2 31:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1 31:50

I'm talking locked down, like you'd show up to work for six months. Okay, this is what happened with me when they put me in education. I started searching.

Speaker 2 31:59

I found within one week like I don't know, eight weapons. Probably good ones, too Good ones.

Speaker 1 32:11

Yeah, In education we were slammed. One day I started searching on my own. I'm like wow.

Speaker 2 32:16

Were you finding them just in common areas? Okay.

Speaker 1 32:18

Like there would be a poster on the wall.

Speaker 2 32:20

Okay, and I'd be like.

Speaker 1 32:23

oh, and then you know, like the file cabinets that have wheels, like in all the education rooms, they were putting them under there. So I was going under there finding them, they were taping them up. So what they ended up doing is taking all the wheels off of everything. So it sat on the ground and they couldn't put them under there anymore. So I don't know if you're familiar with Hedgepeth what? Is that, captain Hedgepeth.

Speaker 2 32:45

No.

Speaker 1 32:45

He was my captain back then, salaya, any of those guys? Okay. So they called me in and they were like Villaria, are you planning these weapons, because you're finding a lot of them?

Speaker 2 32:55

I said, well, so you were actually, you know, disposing of them per departmental policy.

Speaker 1 33:01

Absolutely, I was writing a report.

Speaker 2 33:02

They made a book, okay, I might have known somebody that would put them in his pocket and take them home and throw them away.

Speaker 1 33:06

No, Do you know what they did? They ended up doing a big, huge search because they were like, if all these weapons are here, they've got to be all over everywhere else. They found 200. No, they ended up finding 250 weapons.

Speaker 2 33:19

Of course they did.

Speaker 1 33:21

I can guarantee you, to this day they made a binder and I started it apparently with all my weapons, and then it just kept going Of course they did Salinas. Valley. So it got slammed for like a year and then I left during that time.

Speaker 2 33:37

That's why I'm saying that was pretty much you know. Let me ask you this you're fighting all these weapons. Are you thinking to yourself like, god damn, this could possibly be used absolutely yes you ever find any bone crushers, big giant steel?

Speaker 1 33:51

yeah, yeah, like almost sword looking they were just like, and you know, I was new, I was young, I mean not young, you were probably just an eager beaver, like crime fighter, like finding all this good stuff. Well, I mean, you know, that's good.

Speaker 1 34:04

So that was my experience there and I loved our training because, okay, so, back then we had bulldogs on Delta Yard. How was that? Well, they got attacked by the whites. They were always getting jumped and so they moved them. Nobody wanted them, so they moved them and I guess they ended up at Pleasant Valley, I don't know. Okay so, but back then, if I had anybody disrespect me, my partners selena's valley partners were the best.

Speaker 2 34:42

Good, now we're going to talk about this. So you were a female right? Um, I know what it's like to be in a culture working as a correction officer and having a female partner disrespected. Were you ever put in situations where you were disrespected and it was handled?

Speaker 1 35:01

Absolutely. I don't know if it's okay for me to say this, but Just go ahead and say it and I'll determine whether it's going to stick or not. Okay, you know you got Bloods and Crips inside the facilities that they house together now because they've taken their stuff off the street.

Speaker 1 35:19

Back then that's old news. But now they're in there. I've always told people that if I was going to be a Blood or a Crip or be around them, I would be around a Blood. Crips have no structure. Around a blood Crips have no structure. They have no sort of disciplinary within their, their you know, within their gangs or their disruptive gang. They're not even a prison gang, stg2 or some shit. Yeah, they're.

Speaker 2 35:44

STG2. And when?

Speaker 1 35:45

it comes to, you know, indecent exposure. When it comes to, you know, indecent exposure being disrespectful to a female officer, calling you names, cat calling, just whatever you want to do, no one checks them, no one does anything, they're just. That was my experience. Now, the bloods I got disrespected from, a blood on Charlie Yard, I want to say it was. This was at SADF, though SADF, and I had a whole, I had a whole whole building full of bloods, you know, and the one disrespected me and yeah, he got dealt with accordingly. He got dealt with and when, by his own people, by his own people all I know is it was my RDO.

Speaker 1 36:36

That day happened. I remember. You know you always say something on the PA just because I was the control booth officer. Yeah, it was right there in my face in the shower, okay, and you know you say what you have to say. But nobody did nothing. Like at Salinas Valley, had I reported that, they would have went and got him out of the shower Absolutely Naked and probably cuffed him up and walked him across the yard naked on purpose. So everybody knew what he did. But Sadef wasn't like that, sadef was very like. They didn't, you know, they didn't really do anything. They came in, they talked to him. They, you know, they put him in handcuffs. It was very, very peaceful which is fine.

Speaker 1 37:20

Sadef yes.

Speaker 2 37:23

Did he go to the hole?

Speaker 1 37:24

Well, what I remember, this is what I remember. They took him out and I went on my RDOs.

Speaker 2 37:32

Yeah.

Speaker 1 37:33

I had the count, his counselor at that time call me and say how do you feel about us bringing him back to the building or putting him in a different building? Exactly, yeah, well, it didn't even matter what I said, because they had already taken care of him. Their own, their own, had already taken care. Okay, you see what I'm saying. So when, I got back I didn't know where he was, but then the inmate told me I didn't really get into any much further than that.

Speaker 2 38:00

No, no, that's cool and I totally. I'm tracking, they're tracking too, don't even trip. So the reason I bring it up is because when we started the department, indecent exposure or masturbation within decent exposure was a shoeable offense. You go to ad sick, you go to the hole. And now, in beautiful 2025, they no longer go to the hole?

Speaker 1 38:18

They do not. No.

Speaker 2 38:19

As a female officer, former female officer, how do you feel about that policy change?

Speaker 1 38:24

I've always felt that that sort of behavior in front of me, that to me that is a some sort of assault battery, whether it's mental. So I always told them, if I ever have anyone do that in front of me, that is some sort of assault battery, whether it's mental. So I always told them, if I ever have anyone do that in front of me, I will spray them and I don't care what you guys do. That is affecting me up here, whether he's putting hands on me, and it's just that low insult. You can't get any lower than that to a female in a prison. It's just. You can call me every name in the book, but when you start doing that, right, so they didn't really have any sort of repercussion, any sort of, you know, any sort of. They weren't doing anything.

Speaker 1 39:09

Write a report. Write them up, Cynthia. Write them up, villareal, why? I mean, I'll write them up. But what are you going to do? And it got so unsafe there. This was my I'm going to. Can I share with you my last experience there and this is what made me finally leave. Okay, after I decided to leave the mental health yard on Frank Yard, I only had one more year left. I didn't know that at the time, though, okay, my knee was already giving me problems, I'd already had a surgery, so I had planned on doing at least 20. I only ended up doing 17, but I planned on doing 20, but I had the age right, that's a good thing.

Speaker 1 39:49

So I was kind of I could have made my own decision. So about when I finally was done with the mental health because I was starting to get my cholesterol, my blood pressure, it was just it was all bad. I was drinking a lot. I was, like you know, yelling at everybody, fucking everyone at Burger King or wherever. Where's my fucking drink you?

Speaker 2 40:11

know I was all mad all the time.

Speaker 1 40:12

You know my daughter's like you need to leave mom Now, was that your behavior?

Speaker 2 40:15

Was that your normal behavior?

Speaker 1 40:17

No, I mean not, not like I mean my normal behavior is a little quirky, but it's not like and did you not feel good?

Speaker 2 40:24

Was that conflicting?

Speaker 1 40:25

with you. Yes, absolutely, that's yeah, and it was conflicting with my family members and my friend, like they were like Cindy, this is not you, you're usually very jovial, you know, like well you know these mental health people and I was up until those last four years. So I decided to bid out and that was at the end of 2020. Oh sorry, 2018. Yeah, 18, 19, 18. I did a year in Bravo 1, which is a level 2 GP Dorms, gym Dorms, not the gym, the dorm. You've got the sections with the big grill gate that separates them and there's bunks everywhere.

Speaker 1 41:11

So is it a dorm setting or are they in cells Dorm setting? They're not in cells.

Speaker 2 41:14

They're on bunk beds.

Speaker 1 41:16

Wow, it's A section, b section, c section and there's a big grill gate. There's two big grill gates that divide A and B and C and D. Okay, I mean B and C.

Speaker 2 41:34

And how many per section Approximately?

Speaker 1 41:39

I can't really remember, maybe 80. It's a big dorm.

Speaker 2 41:43

I mean there's a lot of inmates in there.

Speaker 1 41:44

They're all over the place.

Speaker 2 41:46

Gun coverage or no gun coverage?

Speaker 1 41:48

No gun coverage.

Speaker 2 41:48

Because it's level two.

Speaker 1 41:50

Okay, so I've been in there for a swatch Thinking no, no, no, Because my partner Moreno he was a really good cop at the time Well, Mr Moreno, when I got in there, decided to always do hospital coverage. So he was always getting redirected, so I was always getting stuck with the overtime.

Speaker 2 42:06

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 42:07

Well, during this time, well, in those dorms, inmates tend to tint up because and I don't, I really can't kind of blame them I know it's dangerous for us and them- yeah.

Speaker 1 42:19

But when you got like somebody with the fan on and they're whatever or yapping, they would do it for privacy. I get it. However, they're not supposed to be tenting up, correct. But on first watch, I don't care if you're tenting up, because I'm not going to pull your tent down at 2 in the morning and startle you when I got a bunch of inmates just there sleeping and you have to walk all the way back with a flashlight.

Speaker 2 42:45

During count.

Speaker 1 42:46

Yes, and then you have another officer downstairs and your gates. You've popped the fire doors and you go through together, you're making sure and you've got to shut that big gate. That's all sketchy, it's very sketchy. So I was only in there for a year and I had a supervisor who would come in and say you have got to rip down, you've got to stop those, you've got to take the tents down.

Speaker 2 43:12

Was this a newly promoted supervisor or somebody with some experience? Some?

Speaker 1 43:16

experience Just a female.

Speaker 2 43:20

Okay.

Speaker 1 43:21

And, as a female, it just wasn't safe. I felt the unsafeness Right.

Speaker 1 43:29

You know, what I mean. I felt it. So let's get back to the indecent exposure. My last, probably two weeks in there I did a count it was like my 3 o'clock count or whatever and I would always take the top, just because that was my building and I would allow my overtime to do the bottom. It's easier and especially if it was a female like you, go ahead and take the bottom, I'll take the top. I got back to the very back of A section and there's like one, two, three, four, five rows of bunks.

Speaker 2 44:07

So it's way in the back.

Speaker 1 44:08

It's dark. It's dark and I went to flash my light on and there was this black dude masturbating. And I went to flash my light on and there was this black dude masturbating. And I'm talking, we're closer than me and you are, and he's completely naked, and I didn't react. I was just in my mind. I was like I can say something and I can get jumped right here in the corner.

Speaker 2 44:34

Yeah, it's a fucked up spot to be in.

Speaker 1 44:36

Or I can be safely removed myself from the situation, continue counting and then figure out what I'm going to do when I get, you know, this done. So, um, I wrote him up and in the morning when it, when we did the the um shift change, I told my second watch partners and I told my clerk because he was my clerk and he was a really good clerk, black man, you know and he did everything and I shared with him and I think that he had a talk with them, but I had already decided to leave. But situations like that that I believe that supervisors just get so complacent, that I believe that supervisors just get so complacent Well, everyone can get complacent at any time, but you start to forget that these inmates can't hurt you, you know.

Speaker 2 45:21

I'm pretty sure she knew what she was asking of you. There's some fucking supervisors that are just assholes. I'm not saying that that person is.

Speaker 1 45:28

Well, okay.

Speaker 2 45:30

But I've seen examples. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 45:33

I've seen instances where they're doing too much stay in your office and let me do my job. You know, and I was a good cop because I did enough training and education that were I would block the inmates. Let me talk to the sergeant. No, you talk to me. I probably know more than your sergeant.

Speaker 1 45:52

Right so tell me what you need. Well, I have milestones, I need this, I need that. I said I'll take care of it. I can find that out for you. Let me just run your number and I'll do it, because I can look up everything. And so that little bit of knowledge that I took from probation school counseling, being raised with a lot of heart and like you know what Cindy and my mom was like, that you know, don't come home from school if you're bullied and get beat up because you need to go back and beat them up.

Counselor Experiences and System Frustrations

Speaker 1 46:29

I was raised kind of like you know, like that, and we're Portuguese. My mom was full-blooded Portuguese and we just have kind of like that in our blood right. So as long as, as well as my cousins who were all I had three at Kalinga there's only one left now but the two that were there first, mona, esparza and Lydia they were really really like helpful. You know, if I got myself in a situation like you know, I call them what do you do and what do I do, and so, um, then, as you got closer to having more time, then you start to kind of really start seeing all the you know all the stuff. Like I remember during blocks training at Salinas Valley they said don't you dare even try to promote until you got at least seven years in you don't know nothing yet.

Speaker 1 47:18

Then I get to SADF and they're like two-year cops.

Speaker 2 47:21

Yeah.

Speaker 1 47:21

I'm like who brought their son to work. Who is this guy? He looks like he just rolled, like he's 12. And they're like becoming sergeants. And then they end up on your yard and you're trying to run your building and they're in there running.

Speaker 2 47:37

They don't know how to do it. They're becoming wardens, they're becoming associate directors, directors After two-year promotion. Two-year promotion, two-year promotion never worked the line and now they're trying to tell people what to do.

Speaker 1 47:49

No, you can't, you can't. I don't see how anybody would even want to have a job, at that, without working in a line. I don't know.

Speaker 2 48:00

Ego.

Speaker 1 48:01

Status.

Speaker 2 48:02

Status I'm better than you mentality, or I think I'm better than you mentality.

Speaker 1 48:08

Because, like Ron Davis, when I was at Salinas he was there. He had just left there when I got there. Then he came to Sative. It's like I kind of, you know, I didn't really know him that well at Salinas, I don't think I really knew him at all. But I know that when he came to Sative he didn't have that much time and he was a transportation sergeant and then he went to, he just kept going, going, going higher and then he married my really good friend he did.

Speaker 2 48:34

You just mentioned Ron Davis and my blood pressure just literally spiked up. I hope my workman's calm doctor is watching that, but that just goes to show you how this job affects you. You mentioned Ron Davis and I fucking twitched Because I had an interaction with him while I was a lieutenant at Donovan and one thing he said was we are no longer able to put inmates in handcuffs. If they tell us they don't want to be put in handcuffs, okay.

Speaker 1 49:02

So my question is I see, when I left the department there was probably like my gosh, I'm not even like 10? 10 officers' kids that were rolling up and I'm like why would you want your child to work here, or why would you even encourage? I don't know. And I at this time, now I'm not saying 10, 15, I'm not saying years ago, but now I don't.

Speaker 2 49:25

So in your career beginning in 2002 at Salinas Valley State Prison, what changes did you see within the department? Which direction did the department go?

Speaker 1 49:37

It went to being a little more inmate, friendly or trying to make that R really stick. And I found that when I worked in probation by dealing with just the misdemeanors and learning the casework and seeing you know the files and the recidivism on like a child molester or rehabilitation for child, there is none Correct, there isn't because 45 caliber. But yeah, I mean, you know people like well, let's do this and do that now because it's up here.

Speaker 2 50:11

Absolutely.

Speaker 1 50:12

It's not down, it's not anywhere, it's here. So until you can get this out, it's like a sick dog that you put down. Yeah, but I did start finding that the harder you worked, it didn't even matter anymore. It really didn't matter.

Speaker 2 50:29

No, no. The more work that you did, the more you got rewarded with hard work. Yeah.

Speaker 1 50:36

I was having captains come up to me and ask me how I should redo the inmate program because I was a senior. Everybody bit out. I was the only senior cop in there left towards the end, and so I was pretty much running that whole building by myself. I mean, as far as the EOPs, Medlines, Chow Run property, where's my books? Where's my this? Where's my KOPs? Where's this?

Speaker 2 51:10

It was just. It was just. At what point in your career did you realize that you knew more than some of your managers and supervisors?

Speaker 1 51:18

I think at that time during those last well, I mean you pick up on little things here and there along the way? Yeah, you do, because, like when I was a counselor and I was reading reports, I'm like this person doesn't know how to spell. Yeah, Like there's supposed to be a period right here and you're not supposed to say, you're not supposed to use slang when you write a report.

Speaker 2 51:38

Correct.

Speaker 1 51:38

You're supposed to speak, you know, and write block letters. You know you write. I don't know. I took report writing so in college. So I just I would read these reports and I'm like they sound like they're just talking. They're just you know, but they would never pick me up as a counselor. But they sure wanted me when it was time to. Let's talk about that. I don't. When did you begin acting as a counselor? When I got to, I didn't act. At Now, let me just hold on. Really quick Rewind. If I would have stayed at Salinas, I came home because of my daughter, because she missed her dad, and you know they were such a great support. So I came home and I thought, you know what, I'll finish at Fresno State, which I did. So that was the reason I came back, just to let you know. That was what started it. And then I followed. So I don't remember where I was. I'm sorry, I'm like all over the place.

Speaker 2 52:33

I had asked you when did you begin acting? When I got, and then you said you went to SADF you.

Speaker 1 52:42

When did you begin um acting? When I got, said you went to satif. When I went, okay, if I was at salinas I'd probably be a higher up, they really liked me there. But I came, you know, and right, to be a counselor there and to be involved at that time was amazing, you know. We had a great.

Speaker 1 52:53

we had a great. I think his name was lamarck. He was our um warden. I don't know Lamarck, but we would come in on Thanksgiving and holidays and he would do at every entrance well, there was only a smaller prison. He had a whole Thanksgiving meal for us and I'm not talking cheap. Catered yeah, that's what's up. Catered for all of us who had to work. They were just. It was good. I don't know, it was just a good place to work.

Speaker 2 53:22

I felt safe. Did you enjoy going to work?

Speaker 1 53:24

I loved working at Selena. I was bummed when I came home and I knew I could have promoted there a lot more. But when I got to SADF it was a whole different thing and I started to get discouraged. I started to get disappointed because they had their own little you know whatever going on over there. And then when they found out you were from Salinas, they would look at us like that's what I was going to say. They thought we were all know-it-alls.

Speaker 2 53:50

Were they fond of outsiders, Meaning people that transferred in from other institutions?

Speaker 1 53:54

They were but they would, Because my group had a lot of officers that transfer from Pelican Bay. We had some Pelican Bay Salinas Valley that touched down to Sadef. Yes, Wow, when that group came in to transfer, there was Pelican Bay, Salinas. It was all these people that came down from prisons like that and we were like what is going on here?

Speaker 2 54:22

And I'm sure you guys and the Pelican Bay guys were like man.

Speaker 1 54:25

This place is freaking. This is from Disneyland I got. I don't remember. Somebody was on their phone. I was a control booth officer on Charlie Yard and this is before I became a permanent. This is when I was bouncing around, you know, at SADF.

Speaker 2 54:42

Okay.

Speaker 1 54:43

Because remember I was at SADF for a little bit, Then I went into the Charlie Six Control.

Speaker 2 54:49

Yeah.

Speaker 1 54:49

For my first bid. But during that other time I was kind of bouncing around and, yeah, it was, it was.

Speaker 2 55:00

No, I understand, because there's a lot of people that go from Sentinella and Calipat. They go to RJD Donovan and it's a oh my God. They realize they made a mistake instantly.

Speaker 1 55:10

Some guy wouldn't get off the phone and at Salinas Valley I just shut down the whole program. I go get off the phone, I shut the phone off and tell everyone to lock it up, and no one would care and we're like chilling for the rest of the day. I tried to do that at SADF and I got yelled at. I go lock it up and everybody's like lock it up. And I go, lock it up, get off the phone and all you lock it up and I start opening the door. And a problem, we don't do that here, so they call me and they're like we don't do that here.

Speaker 2 55:46

And I'm like, well, we did it over there and I'm gonna do it here because this guy wasn't listening to me. Um, yeah, it's hard. It's hard to because it's conflicting. It's like, hey, fuck, I guess I gotta go along with this program, but I know what the right thing to do is.

Speaker 1 55:53

But fuck, I'm here yeah, so, and and I around that time as I was back at Fresno State, so I was doing all my and it was kind of cool because I was, I'd always been really interested in gangs and you know and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 56:07

So I would kind of pick their brain and they liked it because they knew that I was in school with the inmates and I would, you know, kind of question them about certain things and if I was doing like a research and paper or something like that, I would question them and pick their brain and get like real answers, you know. And so I did well in school because I was already like in the department.

Speaker 2 56:28

Yeah.

Speaker 1 56:28

And it helped both angles of my career.

Speaker 2 56:33

So when you first started your career, all the gang leaders, Mexican mafia members, nuestra familia, AB, they were all in the shoe. Were you there at SADF? Did any members land at that institution?

Speaker 1 56:49

Popeye.

Speaker 2 56:52

Popeye was there when you were there.

Speaker 1 56:54

He got taken care of a while back. Yeah, he was running stuff. And then we got somebody else that came on BR when I was telling you, when I was on that BR that one year.

Speaker 2 57:02

Yeah.

Speaker 1 57:03

I can't remember his name though who kind of showed up and then Popeye ended up getting. He was done with like a couple years ago I think.

Speaker 2 57:11

Did you notice a change in the inmates? Did you notice an inmate change in their behavior when the laws started to change AB 109, prop 57, lifers started going home Did you notice a difference?

Speaker 1 57:27

in the violence. Well, I noticed that because I was counseling at that time.

Speaker 2 57:31

Okay.

Speaker 1 57:39

And you know, when you've been celled up in your own little private room with another cellie or single cell which that was another thing At Sleaze Valley you had to beg for a single cell. We didn't just single cell you because you were like. But then you get to SADF and I'm like I want a single cell because somebody's talking to me at night I don't know who it is, because I'm hearing voices Okay, you can be single cell voices.

Speaker 2 57:59

Okay, you can be single sound. I'm like what, what? I don't think it was just sad. If, though, what I'm? I think during that time frame, the state was already changing statewide. Everything you're talking about was already starting to be happening at other institutions as well yeah, is what I'm starting to believe, yeah now, some institutions are more wild than others, like donovan is fucking doing their own thing. But you're right, I hear what you're saying.

Speaker 1 58:17

And it made it really hard for counselors because when they did that whole 109 realignment, like I said, when you're in a cell with your other buddy or whatever, and you've been there for a while and now they changed the points, and now you're a level two and now you've got to go to a dorm. Oh no, I'm going to go get in trouble. I'm staying right here on the yard is what they're thinking. You understand what I'm saying 100%. So you're pulling your hat as a counselor because you can't catch up, because every time that you have to like you know, every time that you have to write like send them the whole, you got to reintegrate them into the yard with the committee. It's like it was a committee every time something happened.

Speaker 2 58:59

So the committee? It's like it was a committee every time something happened. So what directions or instructions were you given as far as reducing these individuals?

Speaker 1 59:03

points. Well, I was acting, so I had to. You had. Well, when you told them that their points are down, they had to move. Like I said, they would end up catching an RVR to bring their points back up.

Speaker 2 59:15

So they could stay catch an.

Speaker 1 59:16

RVR to bring their points back up so they could stay. Now the full-on spectrum of it. You know I was only acting so I ended up, you know, leaving and then going back to the line, but I don't know if that was for me.

Speaker 2 59:35

I love not being on the line sometimes, just to have your weekends off and all that Did the casework seem like a lot overwhelming, oh, absolutely, because you would start, you would get a, what's it called?

Speaker 1 59:45

You'd get a revision of the revision.

Speaker 2 59:50

A clarification of the clarification yeah.

Speaker 1 59:53

And then, once you got the revision down, oh, you got another revision. And I'm like who's? So you're doing all and I'm talking about, like, what was, like the six. Um, what are the six elements of a bio? Like the six elements of a bio yeah okay, and then they added two more, so you had to like go back and go through all the cases and see if they qualified for this and that on the bio. I don't remember quite, so don't, I can't like be, specific.

Speaker 1 1:00:23

I just remember that there was six elements to a bio and they added the two. Now I don't know if that's still, if that's still the way. It was eight when I, when I was counseling. Then they took the two away again. There was just all these things that you'd open up your email after just doing all these cases because you had 14 days to get them to committee.

Speaker 2 1:00:46

With your experience and knowledge. Was the stuff they were asking you to do? Was it making sense?

Speaker 1 1:00:54

I didn't know. I was trying to figure out who was making all these decisions and how they would even know that they would work if they'd never even been on the line before. How do you even know? How do you? Yeah, how do you know this if you've never been?

Speaker 2 1:01:10

As you're working, are you thinking to yourself like what, the what is like? Are you thinking this doesn't make sense? Is this? Yeah, it doesn't make sense.

Speaker 1 1:01:19

Yeah, it doesn't make sense. You know, inmates, I had one experience on Delta Yard when I was it's a Delta Yard, level four, sny, where I was counseling over there and they found some escape paraphernalia, okay, in the old where they used to steam the clothes and shine them all back there in Vogue somewhere. They found a rope and a bucket, all kinds of stuff by PIA or you know, by the PIA, the Central Kitchen. So they had to shut everything down and you know there's a lot of inmates that work at Central Kitchen in Central Kitchen to find out where that paraphernalia, escape stuff was. They found all kinds of stuff. So they shut everything down and the inmates were mad because they need to go to work. Okay, so we had to go through. The CC2 said, okay, we got to each take all these files and we need to go through all of them and we're going to change the requirements to be behind the wall no longer in a way you no longer can do this and this.

Speaker 1 1:02:23

So all these inmates were complaining to go to work. But then when we changed the the you know all the different requirements to be able to go behind the wall, a lot of them couldn't work behind the wall. Right, it kind of cleaned up, okay. So when we got that taken care of, we finally let the ones that were whining go back to work. Well, now they're having to work like three times as hard because there's nobody else back there, because everybody got fired. So now they weren't going to work it, it was just wow one thing after another.

Speaker 1 1:02:58

So, yeah, and so we had to hire new people and put them through. It was a lot. I felt like I spent most of the time just trying to take one tiny little step forward.

Speaker 2 1:03:09

One little the reason for you acting. Were you aspiring to promote or did you just want the experience?

Speaker 1 1:03:15

I wanted the experience I think I might have wanted to promote, but towards the end it didn't really even matter and honestly I think it had a lot to do with my age. I'm no nonsense, I ain't got time for all that stuff anymore. If I would have been a little freaking whippersnapper came in at 25, and yeah, maybe, but at 36 and 40.

Speaker 2 1:03:40

Because were you observing what the BS that the supervisor was dealing with? Yes, and you're like, no, I don't want to inherit that mess, that headache. You weren't wrong, it's like babysitting. Yeah, grown people, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:03:54

So you know it's just, but I took everything I learned and when I left it's like you know I got to like make something good come out of this. You know, but I will tell you that when I left, everybody around me was so happy my family, my friends, my daughter. They were just like we're so glad that you're out of there. Were you ready to leave? I was ready.

Speaker 2 1:04:16

glad that you're out of there.

Speaker 1 1:04:17

Were you ready to leave? I was ready, I had an option and I chose to leave Because I kept thinking, you know if I can get out of here while I still have a little bit of respect for the department and I can do something else, because I still have a lot of things that I want to do.

Speaker 1 1:04:35

I think I should just leave now. So I took the option to leave, and then things that I want to do. I think I should just leave now. So I took the option to leave and then went back into the beauty business. But that's when I fell into all that issues with my money and my, with the state owing me all the money that they do and all the penalties and Adam and Ferone, who got fired, Fired. Who did Adam and Ferone? I, Adam and Ferone. I fired Adam and Ferone. They didn't do anything for me and I ended up firing them and winning pretty much. After I left them, I represented myself. That's good. Yes, I had more knowledge because Adam and Ferone has an assistant, a paralegal, and then they have an assistant who has an assistant. Who has an assistant. By the time you get to the assistant the last one nobody knows what your case is really about anymore and I was getting crazy letters like when is your surgery? I'm like it was a year ago.

Speaker 2 1:05:31

Damn.

Speaker 1 1:05:33

And so I ended up, but I did it the right way. I went down to WCAB and I filed all my paperwork on Adam and Ferone state fund. I wrote it to the judge. Everybody got a letter. They were late on all of my vouchers, my workman's comp adjuster from state fund, she just dropped the ball.

Speaker 2 1:06:03

How long was that process? Was it a lengthy a year and a half?

Speaker 1 1:06:07

And when I finally, finally, one morning, I woke up and I said this is ridiculous, I should already be back in school, I should have already graduated from going back to school. Another whole other career, going back to school, I whole other career. Going back to school, I started researching stuff and I'm like, wait a second, there's penalty fees for late vouchers, there's penalty fees for late money, there's penalty fees. So I'm like, why hasn't anyone called me? Why is Adam Furrow? Everyone kept dropping the ball on me. So finally, I picked up the phone one day and I called state fund and I said I need this person's supervisor. And, lord and behold, within like an hour somebody called me and I kind of explained my situation and she was like Cynthia, something doesn't look right here. Let me look through your file and I'll get back to you.

Speaker 2 1:06:59

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:06:59

So within like an hour she called me back. She's like did you ever get a check for this amount of money? And I said, nope. Have you gotten your vouchers? Nope, have you, no, Nope. So within one week I had my vouchers.

Speaker 2 1:07:20

Damn.

Speaker 1 1:07:21

I had one of my checks.

Speaker 2 1:07:22

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:07:23

And then I started to dig and I told her. I said do you know that you owe me penalties on top of all this? And she's like I've never heard of that. I said, well, you need your supervisor, you need to go figure it out. So just last week they were holding on to it I got a call. Last year I ended up getting that first money, the settlement that she forgot to pay me.

Speaker 1 1:07:48

I ended up firing Adam and Ferone. I ended up getting that money. Then I ended up getting my vouchers, but they held my money for my penalties for everything. So I finally reminded them two weeks ago and they still owe me that big amount that I guess there's no money. So everyone who's waiting for a CNR they're not doing CNRs, they don't really have to, but they like to to get us out of their hair. You know what I mean. But they haven't done that yet. But they had already approved mine. So I don't know what's going to happen with that. But as of last week, I was able to clear all my voucher penalties and all that.

Speaker 2 1:08:29

Well, that's good.

Speaker 1 1:08:31

And I said you need to get on this, because I'm going to end up going back and getting you guys for another two years on the bachelors. I'm already done with school, I'm already licensed, state licensed, I'm ready to open a spa and you guys haven't even paid me. So and I said and may I remind you that Bernice, who was my original caseworker, who dropped the ball because they ended up transferring me to another one, who finally started figuring things out she told me do you know, cynthia, that 87% of these vouchers that we give out when people retire, they don't even use them. I said, well, I'm not a lazy ass, so I'm going to use mine and I need it. I need that money. I ended up getting like I don't know 18 grand Damn. Getting like I don't know 18 grand Damn. So I only used half of it for school because it didn't cost all that Right? So because they, that voucher is pending and I'm schooled out.

Speaker 2 1:09:28

Yeah.

Life After Corrections and Workman's Comp Battle

Speaker 1 1:09:28

There's no more school I can do and I'm going to be 60. I don't want to go to school anymore. I'm tired, I want to go to school. So I said, why don't you use that voucher and just give it to me?

Speaker 2 1:09:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:09:42

Because you already owe me all that other money and since we don't know when cyberspace is going to show up, or whoever has it, or when, governor whatever you know, why don't you just help me out and give it to me? Can you just? Can you guys just help me out and they did, they did.

Speaker 2 1:10:01

Well, that's a good thing.

Speaker 1 1:10:02

Yes, so they did because I know more than them, because I do my homework. And Rose goes you're really really really hard to deal with. I said I'm going to get a lot harder. I said so you better start figuring out what you're doing. And I said because I'm telling you what to do, you know. And when I wrote Adam and Ferron the letter and I said I want all of the hours that you put into my case itemized and I want to know every hour that you did and I want to know how much it is, so that I know not to pay you, not to pay you, and they wrote me back and said you don't owe us anything. They didn't even explain. They were just like we screwed up.

Speaker 2 1:10:41

We're done so after you retired, even though you faced this inconvenience with getting paid? How?

Speaker 1 1:10:53

do you feel? Overall, I feel like I did exactly what I needed to do, because I'm glad they put me through that, because I can now. If anyone ever said, hey, I'm getting you know having issues with my because Adam's the big, they're the ones who represent CDCR. It seems like you can do it on your own you don't need them. If you can actually do your footwork, you don't need them. If you can actually do your footwork, you don't need them.

Speaker 2 1:11:22

To what Represent yourself.

Speaker 1 1:11:23

Yes, I represented myself. I will never use an attorney again Really, absolutely not. I learned so much that I can literally walk myself through a case, and well, that's how I got this money this last week. They're like we're not going to deal with Cynthia anymore. She's smarter than us. Here's your check. Get out of here, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:11:45

Now, do you think it's incompetence on the other person's? Do you think they don't care or they don't know, or they're just incompetent?

Speaker 1 1:11:52

Well, do you know when President Trump and Elon sent out that letter?

Speaker 2 1:12:00

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:12:01

What have you done in the last week? That's the letter they need to be getting. I told him, I told the work comp person last week. I said this is why they're sending out letters because of people like you who don't do their job. Yeah, and you know, I said I did all the footwork on my case. That is why that letter is going out. It wasn't to like, it was an honest question and I can name a lot of people who need that letter.

Speaker 2 1:12:27

No, there's a lot of people stuck in that workman's comp process. A lot. Thousands, thousands, stuck, stuck like Chuck. No answers, no money, nothing.

Speaker 1 1:12:38

But you know what, when I handled 3,000 cases of misdemeanor in Fresno when I didn't even know anything yet, and I got through a lot of those cases, a lot of those cases, and I was in school and had a daughter, you can't do your full-time job and get through, because one of the caseworkers was like I have so many cases, I have like 70, and I was in school and had a daughter. You can't do your full-time job and get through, because one of the caseworkers was like I have so many cases, I have like 70, and I'm like, oh God, you better freaking take, you know.

Speaker 2 1:13:08

With that being said, and all your wisdom, do you have any hope for our future In CDCR? No, in the United States of America as a country.

Speaker 1 1:13:20

Absolutely. I always have hope. I do, I have hope. But I believe that the kids of today, if they don't have a solid figure in their life that has a good head on their shoulders to guide them, they're not going're not going to make it. Because you can't spend your life behind a computer. You can't spend your life in doing homeschooling all your life. I mean, I believe that some people need all that, but everything is just so— I mean tech is huge and important?

Speaker 2 1:13:54

Yes, it is, but so is verbally communicating with people physically.

Speaker 1 1:13:59

And being in your child's life.

Speaker 2 1:14:00

Children's life.

Speaker 1 1:14:02

Like very and I don't mean like being there as they grow, as they maybe have hard times, roadblocks, all this stuff, you know, but as far as where we're going I don't. I always question like should my daughter have a child, Should she get married and have kids? What's the world going to be like? But then you can't.

Speaker 2 1:14:30

Would you recommend your daughter become a correctional officer in California?

Speaker 1 1:14:35

Absolutely not.

Speaker 2 1:14:36

Why not?

Speaker 1 1:14:36

Because it's dangerous. It's dangerous right now and it's going to get more dangerous unless somebody steps in and cleans up this. You're my buddy, you're my homie. Let me shake your hand and let's go freaking to the snack bar. And yeah, no, no, fist bumping, air hugging, no, you know, you build that rapport sometimes with an inmate because you do. I mean, there's some people out there. You can't help it. They have that personality and I will say that there is some that do come out in their rehab. I'm not going to say that there's not. There is.

Speaker 2 1:15:11

Facts, but what we're speaking about is the extra BS that they got going on.

Speaker 1 1:15:15

Yeah, but you don't go in there thinking that you go in to be an officer in your custody, correct? You're not a teacher, you're not a mental health.

Speaker 2 1:15:24

A rec therapist, a psychiatrist, none of that.

Speaker 1 1:15:26

None of that, they sent me to EOP school for a week in Visalia.

Speaker 2 1:15:30

They did.

Speaker 1 1:15:30

To learn about all these crazy people within a week as an officer. Yes, to work in the EOP building.

Speaker 2 1:15:37

This is the first time I ever heard of a course like that.

Speaker 1 1:15:40

It was like a substance abuse facility. It was for EOP, no, but it was for. It was like to work in those units.

Advice for Female Correctional Officers Today

Speaker 2 1:15:48

Very interesting, very interesting. Is there anything we haven't touched on yet that you would like to touch on? We covered Selena SADF. Is there anything we left out? Any advice you would give to a female correctional officer that has maybe one year in the department? Now Two years, just graduated just graduated.

Speaker 1 1:16:17

I would just say to go in there with your um professionalism, um, if you can, if you can actually get involved in um, do some acting time as you get more experience, you know, but try to find someone in the department who, who you know, is solid and you can trust because there is, there's good supervisors that will help you out and take care of you.

Speaker 2 1:16:48

Accommodate.

Speaker 1 1:16:49

Yeah, like at Salinas Val, we were talking about some of the people that I knew there.

Speaker 2 1:16:52

Solid, dude, yeah, solid.

Speaker 1 1:16:53

You know Brock Amane, stacker Spore, macamani Stacker Spore, and just by watching them you knew exactly you were an officer.

Speaker 2 1:17:06

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:17:06

You were an officer and that's what I went in to be no therapist and no coddle. No, but as a female, remain professional.

Speaker 2 1:17:17

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:17:19

Don't go in there with a bunch of makeup on. Don't go in there acting like you're going to a night out, because these are inmates can you say that again please?

Speaker 1 1:17:27

do not go into the prison looking like you know you're going out and you are trying to impress someone or get recognized, because you will get it and it's not going to be good. And the thing about that is, I think I went through my whole career. Nobody knew, really knew anything about me when I, when I went to the prison, nobody knew anything. My hair was in a bun, I wore no makeup, my personality was the same, but I was just very, you know, um, I would save that for the outside, but I was just very. You know, I would save that for the outside, but in the inside you conduct yourself with professionalism and if you're consistent, the inmates will continue to take you serious and they know not to mess with you.

Speaker 2 1:18:16

That's huge.

Speaker 1 1:18:16

And stay physically in shape. Go to the gym. If an inmate sees you, they're not going to mess with you. That's huge. And stay physically in shape. Go to the gym. If an inmate sees you, they're not going to mess with you. If you're all freaking, you know if you're looking good and you're polished.

Speaker 2 1:18:25

Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:18:26

You know, versus the one that comes in. You know, all just sloppy.

Speaker 2 1:18:32

A lot of female correctional officers are mothers or expecting mothers. What advice would you give to balance the job and motherhood?

Speaker 1 1:18:41

To balance the job and motherhood. Just don't bring your work home, because your kids will feel it, even if they're little. They feel it, they see the change and if you have a support system, take advantage of it, because you're going to need it. You're going to need it when they're little. You know they're little, but as they get older and they start knowing what you're doing, what you're about, and then you know, you come home, you've had a bad day, you know, or you take it out on your significant other or your kids, you know. And next thing you know you're telling your kids not to go to your room but to lock it up and you're like, wait a minute, I didn't mean to say that.

Speaker 2 1:19:16

My dad told me that one time.

Speaker 1 1:19:19

You know what I mean and you're like I didn't mean to do that. You know you really have to like pay attention, but you also have to have another life. Okay, this is very important. There's a lot of officers that this is their whole life. This is all they've ever done.

Speaker 2 1:19:37

Correct.

Speaker 1 1:19:40

If you have to have other hobbies. I mean, what do you do? Do you play guitar, Do you sing? Do you snowboard?

Speaker 2 1:19:47

Do you nails?

Speaker 1 1:19:48

Do you, whatever you do, do it and keep doing it and don't lose all those contacts you know. Don't lose your friends. My friends are all from grammar school, nice, they're grammar school, high school, we're all you know and I can always go back to them. My, you know, my, my, my friends, you know. And even though my parents are gone, I have my daughter now she's in LA, but as a mom, to be in this position, as you get older, your kids kind of you know, like my daughter was really resentful for a while because I was a different person, kind of you know, and a little bit more harsh. It's understandable. But as they get older, they do have a respect for you. Like you know, mom, like now that she's older she's like you know, mom, you don't have to do anything more, you've done it all. What is staying three more years going to do for you?

Speaker 2 1:20:42

Absolutely.

Speaker 1 1:20:44

You've already done it, so just bounce and do what you love, and I did.

Speaker 2 1:20:50

I'm glad you did.

Speaker 1 1:20:52

So I went back and I got my esthetician degree, I got licensed, went back to the beauty business, nice, to what I did before, and now I'm in the chemistry program to get my certification so I can formulate and kind of just take that to the next level. You know I'm always going to be like You're killing it.

Speaker 2 1:21:10

That's good, so Grinding.

Speaker 1 1:21:13

I am a happy, genuinely a happy person, you know. I don't. I'm positive, you know, and I take the time to. I'm the type that I'll start a conversation with my Uber driver or my, like the gal when I was leaving. Right now. She's like where are you going all dressed up? Because yesterday I was shot out, came off the plane. I was like someone hit me with the freaking Mac and. Peterbilt and I said I'm going to do a podcast, and then I kind of gave her a little bit.

Speaker 1 1:21:40

And she's like when you come back, I'm in criminal justice right now, she goes, so, please, when you come back, she's the little attendant.

Speaker 1 1:21:50

So tonight when I go, back we're going to chat and she wants to know about how the do's and don'ts to be a cop or an officer. So, yeah, awesome. And then when they see me they're like you don't look like you would be a cop. I said because it doesn't, I'm not, I'm Cindy, I am who I am and I'm not going to let it. You know, I see so many officers go in, even female, and they come out all tatted and I'm like why that's the latest trend now.

Speaker 1 1:22:19

Gener I'm like why that's the latest trend now, but Generational thing, but you see it big in the prison, it's just see like, oh yeah, I'm talking about in the prison they're blasted.

Speaker 2 1:22:28

No, I'm talking about prison.

Speaker 1 1:22:29

I'm talking about seeing beautiful women that go in the prison and then they're just. They come out looking like an inmate.

Speaker 2 1:22:38

I mean, we see it, we do see it for sure 100%.

Speaker 1 1:22:41

I mean there's. I mean it is what it is, but yeah.

Speaker 2 1:22:45

I mean same thing. They carry backpacks now, when we used to carry lunchboxes in. It's the whole generational. It's interesting to watch, that's for sure.

Speaker 1 1:22:56

But overall I loved my. I I loved there's always nothing's free, you know, nothing's free. I can like my knee. My knee I have like a little bit and it's very, very hard for me because I always did all my, you know, my modeling stuff and my, my competitions and all that, and for my knee to have a big old scar, that was very, very like hard for me to watch, you know. But I got my family, I got a nice happy life Priceless. Me and my daughter are just like you know.

Speaker 1 1:23:31

I'm not like my OCD is. I see a therapist, though I see two, and they keep me in check.

Speaker 2 1:23:39

That's awesome, that's good.

Speaker 1 1:23:41

He'll be like what did you do this week? I said I had a bunch of stuff to do and I said fuck it, and he's all. He's all. You're very candid, cynthia. I said my last, my last therapist. I was a little more appropriate. I said this time you're a man, I'm going to just say what I have to say. I said you just have to get a case of just forget it, you know. And so he would just kind of like, and I'm done with him now. I actually finished my very last session with him like a couple of weeks ago, but I still see my psychiatrist.

Speaker 2 1:24:13

I have to no, I hear you.

Speaker 1 1:24:15

And I'm, and I'm, I'm all for it. It absolutely.

Speaker 1 1:24:17

I encourage you and um, I'll be on in the lord my this is. He's the one that every day I would walk in all the way to work, all the way driving. Lord, you got this. I wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for you. So, because this is your plan for me, I know you got me. So, whatever I need to do, you just speak, you know, and I'll try to hear you amongst all the stuff. So, even through my drinking, even through my health issues that I had because of the drinking and because of the stress it got me through it.

Speaker 1 1:24:54

I'm glad and I feel better, I look better. I run into people that are like Cynthia, you look so much better than you were just, and I said thank you because it was really tearing me apart. So these new officers are going to have to do 37 years.

Speaker 2 1:25:11

That's impossible.

Speaker 1 1:25:13

I told every officer that I was able to speak to before I left You're young, you're 23, 24. If you have a chance somewhere in between there to go get a degree or go do something else, do enough time in here to get you started and go out and do something else. You don't want to be 57 in here at 24. I said no, you're going to end up. You're going to end up having a really dysfunctional relationships, everything you have to just Health, the health alone, yes, and your health, mental health.

Speaker 1 1:25:46

And your mental health and don't get fixated on that overtime.

Speaker 2 1:25:51

Oh yeah, that's a big one.

Speaker 1 1:25:53

Because when you're only 24 and you are just burning, you want to buy a house, so bad that you're doing 30 overtimes, and then you get it. And then now your next thing is you want a Harley and then you want a quad. And I said you're going to be 35, 40, and you're going to be so burned out that you're not going to be able to finish. And it will, and then when you do finish, that adrenaline. That's been like this for 20 years.

Speaker 1 1:26:17

Instant heart attack. They say it takes two years for adrenaline to come down. And when it comes down and your body's not moving and you're not.

Speaker 2 1:26:24

You shut down.

Speaker 1 1:26:26

You will shut down, and that's when you start all the ailments and all that.

Speaker 2 1:26:28

Oh, we see it. We've seen it over and over.

Speaker 1 1:26:31

I'm so. I wake up and I'm like yeah. Yeah, so, and about that shaking that hand thing. So this is my fear about that. This is what I was thinking. An officer who is trained like that is sincere. They're going in to shake a hand, sincerely, right? The inmate's not thinking that. I'm glad you said that. He's thinking I got this guy Absolutely. Aren't they thinking like that?

Speaker 2 1:26:57

No, they're corrupt and criminals and demonic. I've come to that conclusion. Because, Because I've sat at the table with them. I was a PIO, so I know how these people operate.

Speaker 1 1:27:09

It's evil, so that's not good. And I don't really know what to say because I'm just going to. I would just avoid that whole this, just go do something else I don't know.

Speaker 2 1:27:21

I'm glad you've made the trip out here. Really am Thank you. Thank you for sharing your story. I hope your daughter watches and realizes how much of a hardworking mother she has and all the effort you put in to provide for the family. I commend that truly. Thank you, yep. So there you guys have it. Something different, much needed. Glad to hear that perspective. If you like what you saw, make sure you hit that subscribe button. Love you guys. Keep pushing forward.

Speaker 1 1:27:54

Unhinged line. Hector's legend engraved Living life raw, never been tamed. From the hood to the pen. Truth entails pen. Hector Bravo, unhinged story never ends you, thank you.