Hector Bravo UNHINGED
Official Hector Bravo Podcast
Hector Bravo UNHINGED
Combat creates wisdom that classroom training never could.
What does it take to transform from a troubled teen selling drugs on the streets to an elite Green Beret conducting high-risk missions in Afghanistan's deadliest provinces? Terry's story isn't just about combat—it's about the profound evolution of a man's understanding of purpose, leadership, and what true strength really means.
Terry pulls back the curtain on his blue-collar upbringing in St. Louis, where he lacked direction until finding structure in the military. His candid reflections on adolescent misconceptions—"There's three figures you looked up to as a male: the cop, the robber, and the action hero"—reveal how cultural influences shape young men's identities, often with destructive consequences.
The conversation takes us through explosive firefights in the Helmand Province where Terry's team would exhaust massive ammunition supplies during extended battles. But what truly sets this discussion apart is Terry's revelation that physical prowess was never the real challenge of Special Forces: "Understanding the human domain and understanding people and how to understand your own biases, understand their biases...that's the hardest part."
His account of responding to a helicopter crash site under heavy enemy fire offers a rare glimpse into the chaos, decision-making, and moral complexity of modern warfare. Terry doesn't shy away from criticizing the Afghanistan withdrawal, sharing the bitter disappointment many veterans felt watching allies being abandoned after years of shared sacrifice.
Most powerfully, Terry addresses the profound challenge of transitioning from warrior to civilian: "You put a hundred percent into something and then all of a sudden it's done." His journey reminds us that behind every uniform is a complex human story of adaptation, growth, and the ongoing search for meaning.
Follow Terry on Instagram @terrymwilsonjr as he continues his mission of coaching others through life's battlefields.
Hector Bravo. Unhinged Chaos is now in session. Today's guest is a former Army Green Beret. That's right, folks, special Forces. His name's Terry. What up, terry?
Speaker 2:Hey, what's up, man? How's it going?
Speaker 1:So it's good to have you on the show, dude. Yeah, thanks, man Appreciate it, so you did two podcasts prior to this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this weekend I did Urban Valor TV. On Friday it was a really good conversation with Josh, and then yesterday I did Soft White Underbelly with Mark.
Speaker 1:Shout out to those two channels Soft White Underbelly with Mark and Urban Velar with Josh man. Good dudes, yeah, so you're originally from where.
Speaker 2:So I'm originally from St Louis Missouri.
Speaker 1:Oh, you failed to mention that part, bro. Yeah, yeah, and how long was it? Where you currently live in Florida.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we currently live in Florida.
Speaker 1:I've been there since 2014, roughly okay, okay, let's take it back to uh. Saint louis man. Yeah, how was that?
Speaker 2:it was good man, I mean it was blue collar kind of bringing up, uh, upbringing, you know what decades are we talking? So born in 1979, so 80s, 90s, 80s, 90s in saint louis yeah, generation x latchkey, the whole nine yards.
Speaker 1:Was it, as I don't want to say the word hood or ghetto as it is right now?
Speaker 2:back then, so I was born there and then we moved around a lot. So, man, I would probably be in the same neighborhood or same, I would say school, If I was there over a year, two years, years that was. I'd been there for a while, so we moved around a lot I had two friends from the army from st louis, yeah, yeah so, uh, my parents, obviously they were.
Speaker 2:They were married young, but they don't last very long, they didn't, no, like toddler age. Okay they, they broke up, divorced, and then it was pretty much my own.
Speaker 1:How was that for you growing up? Did you grow up in separate households?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we grew up in separate households, so I lived with my mother most of the time and then had a lot of influence with my grandparents.
Speaker 1:Was your father influential in your life?
Speaker 2:So he came back into my life probably later on, I would say probably about 10 to 12 years old, I think roughly around that time frame. He kind of started coming back around. How did you feel about it?
Speaker 2:then, I mean I don't know, you know, as a kid, um, you're always like happy, you know, right, like I don't think I was, I didn't know. Like no, I don't want to see this guy. Yeah, because my mother never did like a. I don't never remember her like talking bad on the guy. That's a good thing, you know what I mean. Like he, she never like beat him up or like, hey, he doesn't want to see you. So I think you know a woman's perspective on what she puts on her kids is huge hat, mold, fully shit, massive, huge. You know what I mean. So like, uh, I have to give her props on that because she didn't beat him up, even though maybe she had the right to. Okay, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So, but she, uh, they're honorable of her, yeah so, uh, but man, so they were going through their own. You know, right, you married young like that middle class well, not middle class, we were poor, but um, you know, midwest drugs, alcohol, kind of going through all that stuff you know they had their own demons.
Speaker 1:What kind of drug?
Speaker 2:oh, they had their own demons yeah, they had their own demons they were dealing with, you know what kind of drugs were so I don't want.
Speaker 2:I don't know exactly as far as, like my mother, I know my dad spoke a lot quite about, you know, having some, you know, alcohol issues. Okay, younger, you know, he, as I grew up, though, like when I met him later on, I think he, by the time he came back into my life, I think he had that pretty much under control, okay, you know, I mean he stepped away, you know, dealt with his, his shit, and then, and then came back so as young as young terry is growing up, do you have a male?
Speaker 2:figure. So my grandfather was a huge my mother's and he was old school. Oh man, he was old school. Korean war, korean war veteran. Yeah, korean war veteran no nonsense kind of guy, yeah, he was uh like gran torino man he yeah he was a pipe hitter man.
Speaker 2:He was a solid dude. Once he got back I'd never remember him working for anybody else, he was just hustle. That's funny how that works. Huh, yeah, he came back. He got his own rig. He drove across the states for quite a little bit, opened his own motorcycle shop, did custom bikes auctioneer Like he was just like he just grind.
Speaker 1:So was there ever a point in your adolescence that you started to get into trouble?
Speaker 2:Man, I'd say, probably about puberty, okay, puberty time frame.
Speaker 1:That's kind of normal, I think it's normal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think all the way up before then I think I was a pretty good kid. You know what I mean. I get into fights, yeah, you know, I think, living in that neighborhood and you know moving around a lot, that just comes with the territory, Right, you know, I think, especially that generation, that's just kind of how you dealt with stuff.
Speaker 1:Playing games like Smear, the Queer King of the Mountain. Oh, this is a fucking unhinged channel, bro. We could say whatever. Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:So I can't get canceled yeah, so like yeah, so I would say that, um, that just came part of the territory. But I say, probably by adolescence is where I kind of kind of went off the off the deep end. You know what I mean describe, describe to me.
Speaker 1:Uh, going off the deep end, what kind of behaviors were you engaging in?
Speaker 2:man. So I think, coming up and like that generation, it's like you were either. Like there's three figures you looked up to as a male right it was the cop, the robber and the action hero.
Speaker 1:God damn bro. Yeah, you got to quote that shit right there. Man, no dude, you're right.
Speaker 2:It's all three of those right and I hit. I checked the box on all of them.
Speaker 1:You're fucking right, dude.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so them, you're fucking right dude, so uh, so yeah, so like those three things, because that's where you're like bro, that's just what it was. The movies like the influence around the neighborhood you have rambo yep, you rambo terminator, right terminator, you know what I mean. Then you got robocop. You know what I?
Speaker 1:mean you had yeah dude, you know familia like you.
Speaker 2:All those movies there, you're like time frame yeah godfather all that, you know what I mean. Like that's what a dude is, that's what a man is. If you don't have any figure that's telling you anything different. You're like all right, I got three things. That's one thing I got to check.
Speaker 1:Now the 45-year-old Terry, with all your experience. Is that what a man is? No, absolutely not.
Speaker 2:What would you say a man is? Oh, man. So that's a tough question. So I think to me, a man is somebody who is a leader but serves. Right, you serve to meet other people's needs Correct, but you still need to do it from a place of, like leverage and authority and confidence, and you know what I mean. It's not there, because there's realities of it is is you're going to tell people to do things that they don't want to do Facts, right, and so you can't bend on that. Right, there's a, you know, a moral compass. Hey, no, we're not doing that because it's not right, you know. But the same token, you're doing it because it's the best thing for them, you know, okay, so like, that's kind of where you know you have to, you know, show, you know.
Speaker 2:Another thing is, I think, tough for me, especially growing up in that kind of generation, was like you love your family and you're like I'm showing them love, but if they don't feel it, then you're kind of missing the mark. You know what I mean. That was the biggest thing, like where I really had a problem, you know, because you're like, hey, I'm doing this because I love you and it's coming from love, right, but I was being way too stern. You know what I mean? I was not. If they didn't see it and they didn't feel it, you're just like oh man, I'm kind of missing the mark.
Speaker 1:Well, ultimately, you also got to take the other person's emotions into consideration yeah, especially if you're stoic and you don't really have emotions on it. You're like, no, this is the way it is right, you know so did you start getting in trouble with the law during this these years?
Speaker 2:yeah, so I started getting it. So actually my tradecraft was pretty good. So I kind of like didn't really get caught on a lot of the you know dumb shit that I was doing. You know, was it illegal? Illegal, yeah, okay, yeah, drugs, you know selling drugs, stealing like that kind of stuff you know. So I was doing that and that was just kind of part of like I don't know man. It was kind of part of the culture and the neighborhood and like the biggest thing I think you know, just like anybody else, the two things you couldn't do you couldn't steal from friends, friends, family and you couldn't rat on anybody Like anything outside of that. You know it's kind of a shitty way to think, like how you grew up. It's like your stuff I'm not worried about, right, you know what I mean. Like you look at it, that's a selfish thing, like you're not considerate about somebody else, definitely, you know. But that's just young, immature, kind of falling in line with not thinking about what you're doing and how it's affecting other people.
Speaker 1:you know what I mean now, would you ultimately get arrested and go to jail no, I didn't end up going to jail.
Speaker 2:I did get arrested, uh, for breaking into a vehicle, um, and like we, I think we sold a car stereo and some other stuff. Whatever, I ended up getting caught on that one. I was with a bunch of other dudes and those guys were idiots, and then you fell in there. They came back to the scene and then I get, but I got busted yeah, did you end up graduating high school?
Speaker 1:nope, you didn't graduate high school high school, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, um, I was getting in a lot of fights. Um, middle school, like the year was over and I remember my grand, my grandmother's like, hey, you gotta go see the principal. And uh, so I go over there and see the principal and, uh, like I'm sitting there as a kid, my grandmother's sitting there, and the principal is like, hey, listen, you failed like everything. Like you know what I mean. And my grandmother's like, oh no, you know, like everything, like you know what I mean. And my grandmother's like, oh no, you know. She's like talking to him, she's like I will pass you if you never come back here again. So, so my grandmother's like, all right, hey, we'll move them out. And I'm sitting there like dang, you know. And uh, so we moved out to the country and then, uh, they ended passing me through middle school and that was was kind of like through high school, back and forth, kind of getting in trouble. And then I moved with my grandfather and I was a handful man.
Speaker 1:Now, were you just not applying yourself, or were you actually struggling with the material?
Speaker 2:No. So all through elementary school straight A's Straight A's easy, no problem at all. Middle school I started elementary school straight A's all the straight A's easy, no problem at all. Middle school I started I still straight A's. And then I just like plummeted and plummeted. You know what I mean? If I look back, man, I really don't even know what the. I think you know. I think it's the same reason. A kid falls into whatever. At that point you're a jock, you're a nerd. Whatever that falls into, right, you're. Oh, I just fell into the bad-ass, like the kid that rebels and don't do it. You know what I mean? I just fell in. Oh, this is my niche Now, were you?
Speaker 1:a were you a lone ranger or did you?
Speaker 2:have friends. Um, I was pretty lone, I would say, but I started hanging around with the wrong people, obviously wrong crowd, and that's where you kind of really start, like you know what I mean, Like making decisions you probably wouldn't have made if you just would have like.
Speaker 1:So, to my understanding, you need a high school diploma or equivalent to join the military.
Speaker 2:So I went to the when, that point, whenever I went to the recruiter you know when, when it was time to go to the recruiter, um, I didn't have shit and they're like bud, you can't get them in. And he's like but he set me up with doing my GED. He's like, hey, here's an ASVAB, you need to study this and you need to go get this GED. What year was this? This was in, oh man, 1999, 98, 99.
Speaker 1:What did the GED course consist of? Like in-person classroom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you studied a book they gave you and then you just went in and pretty much took a test, that's it. That was it. Yeah, was that easy for you? Yeah, it was easy, man. So, like, even whenever I was in, um, uh, like high school, right, so they had a. I remember one year I can't remember what grade yet level it was but they're like, hey, listen, um, all of these kids that were like they were getting in trouble or low income, that wasn't coming in and applying themselves, they had a program to where they would pay you this was after I was 16 years old an hourly wage to go to school and take their test. I think.
Speaker 1:I remember that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like. So they're like I was like okay, yeah, you're going to pay me. And they're like if you apply yourself, you're going to whatever, right? So I take this thing over I don't remember how long it was or whatever. And then I get done and I don't remember exactly what it was, and that was like maybe nine, 10, 10th grade or something like that. And they go, they sit me down. They're like what are you doing, man? Like why aren't you applying yourself? And like they show me the test and like why don't you apply yourself?
Speaker 1:I'm like this is stupid. Like you, I would just like just rebellious, just rebellious, just like you know what I mean. So you ultimately get your ged? Yep, so I get my ged. And what do you let the recruiter know?
Speaker 2:yeah, like. So he kind of set it up like almost, like obviously they're the recruiters, like they're hustling oh, so they're keeping tabs on.
Speaker 2:They're on your ass, dude yeah, they're like, hey, man, we're trying to get you in. So, like, right, like they're in there. Hey, here's the ged. Hey, here's, here's where you can go. Hey, I got you scheduled next friday, can you get? You know what I mean. Like, yeah, like they're not, like, oh, here it is and go correct, like they were. Like you know they were trying to get, they were, they were hustling, you know. So they helped me through that process and did you so?
Speaker 1:you take the ASVAB test. Yep, take the ASVAB test. Did you score high enough where you had a good selection of jobs?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So when I went in, they told me I could get whatever job I wanted.
Speaker 1:Whatever job you wanted.
Speaker 2:They said no. They said I scored high enough to get whatever job. Now, once you get there, whatever jobs are available is where you're going to like when you go to the MEP station or whatever.
Speaker 1:Ultimately, what MOS did you end up choosing?
Speaker 2:So when I initially got there to the MEP station, they're like they go through the whole process or whatever, and then you sit down there. It's like you know, it's like talking to used car salesmen. Oh, definitely oh man, you know what I mean. It's like they're just trying to sell you whatever and they're like oh, we got this commo job for you, right? This is before september 11, september 11, yeah, so this is before the war, so there's nothing going on wait, let me think there was absolutely nothing going nothing going on, so it's like dead time.
Speaker 1:You're probably not even thinking about war, probably so I was thinking about getting after it.
Speaker 2:But I'm like thinking, how can I do that?
Speaker 2:okay, you see the posters on the wall. You're like, oh, you know, be all you can be. And the guy like wearing like, uh, you know the, you know the camo and in the swamp and all that shit. And you're like that's cool, but that guy's not doing anything right now. So that's what's in my mind. Okay, right. So I'm like, all right, what am I going to do? And they're like, hey, you offered me a camo gig. And I'm like, what is that? And they're like, yeah, you know you first motherfucker that gets killed, exactly. I'm just like, no, I don't want to do that. Like, who wants? No, I'm not doing that. And then they're like they're like all this other stuff and they're like, uh, underwater welding, they got underwater welding that is a thing underwater welding.
Speaker 2:And then I'm just like what am I? I'm not gonna be able to shoot nobody in underwater welding. Like that's dumb, you know. And now I'm like and now they're like well, those people make a lot of money. And I'm like, yeah, they also die at 26. Also, like you know what I mean. And I'm just like so anyways, I was like hey, I'm like, what about MP? You got MP available. And they're like no, it's not available. And they'm like all right, I'm done, I'm out, left the MEP station. I'm like all right, no, I don't want any of that. Walked out, left the MEP stations, walking down St Louis, like leaving, and my recruiter calls me. They're like hey, what's going on, man? I'm like, hey, I'm just like no, man, they're not giving me what I want. Like I'm saying so I'm like going over this.
Speaker 1:How old were you? I was probably so.
Speaker 2:I was a young punk. I was a totally young punk. I just thought I was a young punk. I'm glad you clarified that man. So I'm like. So yeah, I was like 19 years old.
Speaker 1:Okay cool, not too young, Not a 17-year-old, not too young but I was like I got more street smarts you're wet behind the year. I mean, you're not wet behind the years, man so, uh, I'm like no, I'm not doing that.
Speaker 2:So he's like hey, go back in there, they'll give it to you. So so I went back in the mep station and then they were like totally different demeanor. They're like screw you, like I'm just like. They ended up giving it to me. They were pissed. Yeah, you could tell they were kind of a little pissed, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:But they ended up giving it to me mp yeah, mp okay so where did you go to basic? At uh, fort leonard wood, fort leonard wood yeah, fort lost in the woods. That's what I was gonna say. What is the nickname?
Speaker 2:for that fort lost in the woods. Yeah, st roberts, missouri, is that where it's at?
Speaker 1:yeah, st roberts, so you were in missouri, so you're in the same state, I'm the same state, the same climate. So you're not used. So you're not.
Speaker 2:It's not a culture shock it's not a huge culture shock. It's still like, um, really it wasn't really a culture shock because a couple things, um, it was still in the country and then we had spent time after I moved out in the country also, right, okay. So like, um, obviously it's out in the middle of nowhere, but it wasn't a culture shock and, truthfully, it was a good move because, um, um, they, they asked me what duty station I want to go to.
Speaker 1:At what point in time At MEPS.
Speaker 2:At MEPS. And what did you say? So I went to the basic training AIT in Fort Leonard Wood and my first duty station was Fort Leonard Wood also, and I was like, hey, I want to stay there. That's what you wanted.
Speaker 2:I wanted right, because me and my wife are young, we just got married, right, we have kids. I'm like, hey, she can be close to her family, okay, okay, I didn't know what was going to go on like I had no clue what I was getting into. You know what I mean? I wanted her to have a support network. If she needed it, I was gone. Gone, you know. I mean, which was truthfully was, uh, was a blessing originally, you know, sounds like it yeah, so you made the right call.
Speaker 1:What was basic training like for you? Was it hardcore, were you? How were your drill sergeants? Were they more of a mentor assholes?
Speaker 2:um, man, this was like the late 90s, early 2000s, so it was. I mean they were. They were what I expected a drill sergeant to be. Okay, you know what I mean? Um, in your face, like screaming, yelling knife hands, like all that kind of shit, you know throwing your personal property around, your personal property around and shit Throwing your personal property around.
Speaker 2:You know flipping bunks, you know what I mean. Like people leave their shit out and they you know what's that, the boot stuff you had. They would write stuff all over there and you had to clean that stuff up. That would take forever, you know what I mean. So you go in there, like to where it was pretty impressive, like how they could tie knots and like, have bunks outside. I'm like they just threw bunks outside the damn the barracks and they're on the floor out here. I mean they were just like so that kind of stuff was was pretty norm, you know, but not like the whole. Like there's only one time that I seen a dude get busted in the head and that was at the range.
Speaker 1:Did he do something very negative he did something stupid.
Speaker 2:He was flagging whatever in one of the drill sergeants. You know the flag that they have, the little paddle, yeah, and he busted that kid right across the head with the paddle. You know what I mean. That's the only time I've seen anybody like. The rest of the time, you know.
Speaker 1:And they used to hit us with the helmet, the Kevlar helmet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, they would call it the range. Yeah, yeah, the range. Yeah, he used a paddle or whatever, but besides that, I thought it was normal.
Speaker 1:So you graduate. You graduate basic, you go through AIT.
Speaker 2:So it was like the basic and AIT there, for that was it was like graduate and then go to AIT. Was the same drill instructors, correct? Yeah, so you didn't like? Was that considered?
Speaker 1:OSUT also yeah.
Speaker 2:OSUT, I guess, yeah, okay yeah.
Speaker 1:So now you're an MP man, You're looking sharp. Did you feel different? Did you feel proud?
Speaker 2:Accomplished. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I mean, you go through that. I think you're going to feel something right, like you feel like, okay, hey, you know, like, uh, there, you know you set a goal and you achieved it. Right, you know what I mean. No matter what it is, I don't care what mls you did, right, you know what I mean. Like you did set a goal, you achieved it. You've done that.
Speaker 2:You went to the graduation or whatever, right, they're just milestones in your life, that's right so, like uh, I think, I think it's important that you, that you celebrate those absolutely, no matter how small or how big they are. Yeah, don't take it for granted.
Speaker 1:You know.
Speaker 2:So you said, there are milestones, but even these small milestones can lead to a whole impactful, a few different, yeah, exactly, life. Yeah, so, yep, so did that. Went to the first duty station and I'll tell you, man, like, when I went to my initial duty station, it was like almost like Super Troopers, troopers before super troopers came out, man. So we got in there and I'm doing my uh. When I initially got in there, they put me as a road mp, right, so I was working on the road initially, right, and uh, I'm doing my training. It's like I don't remember, like two o'clock in the morning, because you have like shifts at all times, another mp car drives up next to us and there's two other mps in there in civilian clothes, fit the vodka getting smashed, and I'm just like what is going on here, man? I'm like is this normal, were they?
Speaker 2:in an mp vehicle they were an mp vehicle, yeah, patrol car, and I'm just like what is going on? Because because this is where I was at. I will tell you this, like no matter where I was at, like um, once I went all in on something, my biggest thing was not being a hypocrite. Okay, I do not want to Like. So if I am going to go all in and like this is what I'm doing. I played the book, I was by the book. You know what I'm saying? No, that makes sense. That's just the way I am. Now, if I go on the other side and I go on the other stuff, well then I'm like okay so it doesn't matter wherever you go, you're going all in I'm going all in, man, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Because, like to me, like the worst thing you can do is is be a hypocrite yeah, you're right you know what I mean. Like, at the end of the day, it's like okay, I'm put in a position to be in a leadership position or an authoritative position. I I have to do it the right way, because if not, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So, as an MP you mentioned, you did a couple deployments pre-war. What was? You were already an MP when 9-11 happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I showed up to my unit one year before September 11th of 2000.
Speaker 1:Do you remember that particular day?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, like the back of my hand.
Speaker 1:What did you guys do as a unit?
Speaker 2:So we were preparing for a um it was called the best warrior competition okay, right. So, um, it was like all units for like all mps or whatever. And we're at the uh, the obstacle course, right, so we're training at the obstacle course and then, uh, we're taking a break, had the radio on and then the towers hit and we're like, oh shit, like this really happened, you know. Then, from there, we got in the vehicle, went back to the company and then watched it. You know, like, the other one hit, like unfold, and uh, because at first we're like, what is it? Like? We didn't know. You know what I mean. When the first one hit right, was it an accident or whatever? And then, once the second one hit, you're like, okay, I just confirmed, you know what I mean. And uh, then, from there, we ended up getting deployed to Qatar a couple months after that.
Speaker 1:What did the base look like in Qatar? Was it a nice base? Oh yeah, it was nice. Was it an Air Force base, army base? It was an.
Speaker 2:Army base. It was an Army base and we spent maybe almost close to a year there, maybe a year there. How was the chow? Chow was great. It was not a deployment Like it was like, oh, I get it, I get it.
Speaker 1:How was the gym?
Speaker 2:Gym was nice, Like everything was nice.
Speaker 1:And now were you doing MP duties in Qatar? Yeah, we're watching Gate. Oh hell, no man, gate to the gym.
Speaker 2:Inside, not even on the outside perimeter of the damn, the nice place you know in Qatar, which is low crime, low terrorism. You know what I mean. So it was like, if I get it, and you know anybody that's served, that's served duties, where you're like what is my purpose? Right, and you sit there and you're questioning it, you're just like why am I, why am I picking out grass from this root whenever I have a weed killer that I can do it? We've all felt it. Oh, I get it. You know what I mean. And you're just like you're sitting there like you got to be kidding me. You know, and that was back in the time I weren't, we didn't have like our platoon, a platoon sergeant at the time. He was like no chair, so you stood like 12 hour shifts 12, 12 on, 12 on, 12 off.
Speaker 2:four shifts, just man and you're just like, oh, this is terrible. You know, but that was my initial because SOCOM was there. They had a base where those guys were coming in and out.
Speaker 1:In Qatar.
Speaker 2:In Qatar. Yeah, like the NSW guys, the SF guys, the Ranger Battalion guys, the guys that were still going into Afghanistan or whatever. So I'd be sitting Sometimes, like to Afghanistan or whatever. So, like you, I'd be sitting sometimes I'd have we'd guard over there and you'd see these guys coming in and they were like what do they look like?
Speaker 2:Oh, they were just like they looked exactly like you know, just worn out, like there's times you coming in there and just like you do the worn out, like they're getting after it, and then I'm just like I'm that need to do more.
Speaker 1:Right, that was my initial like. That was it? That was my initial one.
Speaker 2:I'm like all right, so you're standing in the gate of qatar, standing because your sergeant's an asshole.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're seeing these fucking salty ass, fucking combat veterans, special forces, yeah, coming through. And now your wheel, now your hamster, yes, your hamster is starting to move. Yeah, yeah and uh, did you ever talk to those guys?
Speaker 2:um, not much like a little bit, but like those guys were coming and going you know what I mean like they had. They had shit to do, man, you know so how did you pursue special forces?
Speaker 1:did you have to tell a supervisor or a superior?
Speaker 2:yeah, so like. So we got back from that trip and then, uh, so we got back and that trip, and then we deployed again and we deployed to Iraq the next time, right, and it was right whenever Iraq kicked off and it was right whenever the four line of troops were coming through, right, but we were right behind them, right. So we're in the rear with the gear and everybody knows this. They have done four line of troops or, depending on where they're at, as far as, like big operations, when people move out, it takes a while for them to come back in, right, it takes a little bit. It depends on what's going on, you know.
Speaker 2:So then we get through there and we're there for a little while and, and what we're assigned to an ODA and those guys are out like doing their own thing, like running and gunning and getting after it. You know, and that's whenever I'm just like all right, I'm done this, like that's what I want to do. You know what I mean, because I'm here drinking bag water, like, and like that was back in the days in Iraq where, like, you had to like pull guard on your shit, you come out there and a gun truck would be gone, like that they talk about that stuff was happening because food would be gone. You had to pull guard on whatever you had because that stuff, people were taking that shit.
Speaker 1:Who was taking it? Other units, other units, yeah. Okay, you had me thinking that the Iraqis were taking it. No, no, no, it was just other units. Other units were just fucking acquiring things. Acquiring stuff, yeah.
Speaker 2:That was back in the day. They were like, hey, hey, you got one, one bag of water that you can have, you know, and uh, so it came in his bags, you know, and we drank it. For how?
Speaker 1:long you didn't have those haji water bottles no, that was before these haji water bottles.
Speaker 2:It came in a bag, okay, and then um, and then afterwards they're like hey, quit drinking the bag water. It's like, uh, contaminated with hepatitis, all kinds of craziness. I'm just like, well thanks, well thanks a lot man. Great, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Excellent bro.
Speaker 2:So, so, yeah, so I came back from that deployment and then I went and found a SF recruiter.
Speaker 1:That's very interesting, man. That's very interesting that you're in the military and you reach out to a SF recruiter.
Speaker 2:Yep, so you go through there and they have you like, um, they have sf recruiters to go in there and kind of like it's almost the exact same thing as a regular recruiter, right, but they're just. But they're like steering you in the route of like, okay, hey, you want to go sf but my thing is isn't there?
Speaker 1:don't you have to get approval from your chain of command? No what do you mean?
Speaker 2:no, so like in a day, if I want to go to a selection, I go to sf recruiter. I got a date, I'm going to selection.
Speaker 1:I never even knew that dude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they can't stop you from going. Now, what they can do is they can make it difficult for you once you sign up. You know what I mean. Like if you don't make it, things could get, things could stop you try to jump ship on your yeah yeah, uh, physically condition.
Speaker 1:I mean, you're fucking swole right now. Yeah, how were you back then?
Speaker 2:so back then, um, I was still a pt stud man at that point. Man like I was, you know, maximizing my uh, apft. That's one thing you learn in the military really quick. Man, if you're the right place, right time, right uniform and you're physically fit, you're already top one percent. That's facts. Right uniform and you're physically fit, you're already top 1%. That's facts. You know what I mean. Then you just apply a little common sense to that Pretty much in life, in life. Yeah, right, you do not have to. If you add that together, care and like try to apply yourself, forget it, you're you're beating 90, some 99% of the population. You know what I mean. Yeah, so, uh, so, yeah, so you learn that really quick, you know. And I'm like, okay, boom, knock these off, cause these are easy things you can do. Right, yeah, it's not hard to work out.
Speaker 2:Or you don't have to be smart to move shit. Like smart to move shit, like you know what I mean. Yeah, you don't have to be smart to make sure you're in the right uniform, right right eye on your shit. Look good, you know. I mean you don't have to be smart to be you know, show up on time, true, all these things that are basic things. You don't have to be smart to do it. You're dropping knowledge to the fucking crowd, bro. Yeah so, uh, so, yeah so um. So that stuff I had pretty well, pretty real tight and then, and then I just started. Once you went to the SF recruiter, they give you like a little book like, hey, this is what you need to prepare for a selection, you know, just for like physical fitness portion of it. So I just followed that to a T.
Speaker 1:Where was the selection at?
Speaker 2:Uh selection was at uh Camp McCall.
Speaker 1:Fort Bragg Fort Bragg, Yep. Was that your first time being at Fort Bragg Yep? That initial time Walk me through day one.
Speaker 2:Ooh, man day one. So day one, I show up. I got a good story for this one man. So, as I fly there, I'm wearing my black boots with me on the plane, right, and I had civilian clothes on, but on my carry-on I had my bdus with my white name, or my the white tape on it that they have you put on them. They put your roster number on it, uh, and then I show up there. They the airline lost my luggage, so none of my, none of my other shit was with me, right. So I show up there with just that, right. So, luckily, whenever I had my carry on, I had my my rock with me, or whatever. And then so I show up there and I didn't have it the whole trip, man. So I had one pair of BDUs like wore the whole time. So show up there, and then I can't remember exactly what the in processing, remember what it specifically was. Do you show up, they in process you. They give you a number, hey, this is your roster number.
Speaker 1:And then, um, are they being stern with you? Who are these fucking cadre?
Speaker 2:yeah, cadre, yeah, they're all other sf guys. Okay, right, they just come back there to get a uh, do their instructor time. But like through the whole whole course it was professional. The only time they yelled was during log PT. The rest of the time was very professional Either you did it or you didn't. And then you show up and everything's like on a whiteboard, right, and they're like you have to go check the whiteboard. So you had to like round people up and we had like a roster with the students. Hey, somebody had to go check the whiteboard every like I can't remember, maybe every 15 minutes, like 24, 7. Somebody go because that's where they put the detail at like, hey, next hard time we're going to meet at this location at this time. So the cadre would just come out. Hey, 65 pound ruck this time line up at this location. You know what I mean. And then so you'd have to keep on watching the whiteboard because that's where all your instructor instructions came from was there group punishment if somebody messed up, or was it individual?
Speaker 2:no, man, the only time you had group punishment really is like whenever you're doing like team week, okay, yeah, so I don't, there was not. I don't remember any kind of group punishment like there's's. I don't remember, I don't remember there being any group punishment.
Speaker 1:So it's a selection. Yeah, so do you initially go into tactics?
Speaker 2:or that. So the select selection on that point. Obviously things change over the years, right, but during that time it was really based on physical fitness, your character traits, right, and your men, your mental mentality, right. So you get a psych test. They, you know, they ask you, you know one of the things they did. They give you a psych test and then they also like hey, something basic, like hey, why you want to be a Green Beret? Give you a sheet of paper and you write out whatever you want and then the psychs would look at it, you um, and then uh, then they had. You know that was a lot of the psychological portion of it and the rest of it was all physical peer, like you know you. You could peer your, your buddies, so you do team stuff, right, and if you were getting peered like hey, this guy's not pulling his weight when you're doing team stuff, like you get kicked out for that do you think you almost have to be a social path to pursue Green Beret?
Speaker 2:So I will tell you once. I did the whole you know selection Q course and I went to on the teams. The SF, the physical fitness portion was the easiest part Understanding the human domain and understanding people and how to understand your own biases, understand their biases and you're trying to get people to do a mission set that they may not know, that you're trying to get them to do right. So now you have to use leverage resources to get something done that they might even not know that's's being asked of them, do they teach you that, yes, they teach you that, and then it comes with a little bit of wisdom, experience, like all.
Speaker 2:That's kind of like you know, throughout the, the guys that really succeed are the ones that kind of pick that up, okay you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:That makes, uh, emotional intelligence a lot of emotional intelligence.
Speaker 2:You know, you really have to understand that so you went through seer school yep, how was that dude?
Speaker 2:oh, seer school was a blast. So so seer school was a blast. So seer school was one of those schools that, um, I wouldn't say like it was enjoyable, right. But I think there are certain schools that you go to that if you ever have to use in real life that you're like, because most people they'll say, oh, seer school, that was stupid, it was a waste of time. Well, that if you ever have to use in real life that you're like, because most people will say, oh, seriously, that was stupid, it was a waste of time. Well, it was because you never have to use it, right.
Speaker 2:But if you had to use it now, you're like, boom, I remember that, you know, because it'll break you down. You know what I mean. You know not eating, you know. Obviously you got the physical portion of it, the mental breakdown of it and everything else there too. But to me I thought it was done really professional. And then you kind of really see your peers and you can see who's dealt with trauma before in their life and who hasn't. The guys that have not dealt with trauma break Because this is the first time somebody's yelled at them, put their hands on them, demoralized them.
Speaker 1:Whatever Do they break down physically and start crying.
Speaker 2:They start yelling, screaming you talking about, like the, the students, are that students? Oh yeah, you see some crazy shit. Break it down. Breaking down like mentally, you know, emotionally, because what they'll do is they look for your weak points, right as a person, as a man, whatever, and they just jab at them, whether it's family, whether it's your own self-sabotaging thoughts or whatever. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Psychological warfare.
Speaker 2:Psychological warfare, you know.
Speaker 1:That's the best kind.
Speaker 2:Oh man, it's great, because the reality of it is, though, is there's, you know, somebody that's never kind of dealt with that kind of stuff before and have dealt with that kind of trauma or dealt with that somebody messing with them like that? Like you need to know where you're at and you need to know where your weaknesses are and you need to know where your buttons are.
Speaker 1:So as I'm talking to you, man, I'm realizing that the physical aspect was not a challenge for you at all in the military.
Speaker 2:So there is. So it's not that it wasn't challenging right, isn't challenging right, right, but like the reality of it is, is to be successful at that. It's way more than that yeah, it's understanding your environment.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, understanding your capabilities, yep understand their capabilities.
Speaker 2:Understanding guys that you work with their capabilities wow, right. Understanding your leadership right, because in a day like your mission set as you're getting a mission right, you're competing against other odas, right. So a lot of it is like I need to build a relationship with my, with these personnel. They're here and because I need to, like, get resources and all this other stuff that I need, like you know. So, for instance, right. So as a team sergeant, you have a team leader who is an officer, right, so a lot of missions at times are decided on how good the officer is Makes sense, right. So now my job as a team sergeant I want to do the best missions, okay. So now I am going to build a relationship with whoever the officer is in charge, who's picking missions? Right, and I'm grooming that officer to make sure that the ODA is getting set up with the best missions.
Speaker 2:There you go, dude, right. So there's like there's all of the. It's almost like politicking. It is man, and I tell guys all the time you know you can apply this at life, correct, right? In Army they say, oh, performance and potential, that's what you get rated on, your performance and potential. I'm like no, there's four Ps Finality and people. You know Facts, facts In life. In life, you take those four things, crush it.
Speaker 1:Facts, dude. Even if you face some type of adversity, you're still going to pretty much come out on top. Yeah, you stick to that game plan.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So like you have to understand that because a lot of guys will get stuck on that. They're like my performance is great and I'm like, yeah, but you're the best 18, Bravo, in the battalion. You're not acting like a team sergeant. So, even though your performance is great, your potential is not there, because you know what I mean, right, and then your personality is shit. Like you know what I mean. Like you are a hammer for everything, Absolutely. Like you got to learn how to be a scalpel, you got to learn how to do these other tasks or whatever. Because then people are like okay, being breaking a glass in a case of emergency, kind of war kind of guy, that's great, but if you can't do this other stuff too, people aren't going to trust you to do the other stuff.
Speaker 1:Hey guys, consider becoming a patron, where you will get first exclusive dibs on the video before it airs to the public and you'll get to ask the guests special questions that you have in mind. So that's also another way to support the channel. Thank you, guys, appreciate all of you keep pushing forward. Make sure you hit that link in description below. I'll tell you what, though. A lot of that comes from inexperience and not realizing. Yes, realizing right, because once that person realizes and turns it on, what I'm trying to say is that's a learnable skill, oh a hundred percent, right.
Speaker 2:So, but like, once you get some like self-realization, that's like one of the best superpowers, man, absolutely. You can like okay, hey, this is what I'm good at, this is what I'm not good at, right, these are things I need to work on. Facts, like be thick skinned whenever somebody is like trying to help you out, man, okay. So with your mentality, man, you're sitting in a serious school just analyzing everybody.
Speaker 1:Are you praying off of the weak? No, I don't think really. What I mean is sometimes, when I see people quit, it motivates me like okay, fuck, yeah, I'm still here.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So whenever there is not necessarily in still school, but on these other tough, difficult things, like the physical portion of it, when I see people drop off, I'm like I got this, I got this right. Yeah, you know what I mean. So, like, because there is some sense of like it almost gives you another set of like, drive and push, like another burst of energy. Burst of energy, yeah, yeah, because you're like I got this, you know.
Speaker 2:So once you get your green beret man, was there a ceremony? Yeah, yeah, so we do it, do the ceremony in that, and then, um, and that thing there that was. You know, obviously you do this whole course, you know, and it's like, so there was obviously a lot of pride. You know a lot of like man, I just accomplished that, you know, especially coming from people didn't even think I would be making through basic training, let alone be a green beret like you know what I mean. There's like no way this guy's like you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like I go back home sometimes too and I'm like man, I can't believe how much you've accomplished. Like, yeah, man, persistence, and just don't quit, right. And then just like, do some self-realization and own things that you've done wrong and like, hey, I'm not going to be that person anymore. Like right, like people get stuck on this, I did this shit and I'm like all that takes is one day for you saying I'm not that person anymore and actually change to be to start going in a path you want. Why do you?
Speaker 1:think people quit man. I don't Whether it be tryout selections, Whether it be tryout selections.
Speaker 2:So a couple of reasons. When I went through some of these things, I've seen guys that would quit as soon as it rained and I'm like, what are y'all doing? Like as soon as it just got a little bit tough, and I'm thinking like, how did you think this was going to be? Like you know what I mean. Like what did you think you were signing up for? You know, and in selection for me in the Q course, I put this on such a pedestal that it was so impossible to do that. I'm just like when I got there not that it wasn't tough, you know, there were some parts like the log PT was a smoker, the star course was tough, team week was tough. You know, there's times where you're just like, oh, my gosh man, throughout the Q course where I'm like, if I just let me get through today, let me get through today. Like you had days where you're just like you felt like quitting, you know. But you're like you know what, let me get through the day. You know, let me get through this next hour, I can get through this next hour, and you're just doing that over and over and over again until finally you're at the end and you're like, oh, again, until finally you're at the end and you're like, oh, we're done, you know. But yeah, I just don't know. I don't understand why. Maybe it's some self-sabotaging thought process. You know, we did have some instructors tell some students like I don't give a shit what you do, you're not passing right. So then at the end of the day, like you're having, we went on this one patrol this was an SUT and we went on this one patrol this was an SUT and so all of our equipment split up and this guy is, you know, volunteering, withdrawing right before we go on this patrol, right, and the whole squad's like, don't quit, don't quit. Not that they didn't want him to quit, they didn't care that he quit, but we got to carry his shit. Yeah, you know what I mean. So now there's 80 more pounds of gear that we got to carry because he's going to quit. And he's like, oh, the instructor said that I'm not going to make it, no matter what. And I'm like, bro, don't let the instructor decide, you go to the end, you know. And then that's somebody else's decision. But at the end of the day, if I give 100% on something, whatever, the chip fall. The chips fall. It's not you going to decide whether I'm not going to make it or not. I, if you tell me, I don't care what you tell me, you're either going to knock me out, I'm going to still go and once I get to the end, that's somebody else's decision to make. And if I don't make it, then hey, that is what it is. But I can live with that. Correct, you know what I mean? I can't live with me just quitting because some guy is saying I'm not going to make it. Correct, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Teams are you like a new, brand new member with season experience? Oh yeah, like back at that time, most of those guys, like you know, I showed up, I think I was man. How old was I? Between 24 and 26, I think. Maybe 26 years old, I think, roughly, when I got to the uh an oda. A lot of those guys were, you know, quite a bit older than I, was Already seasoned in combat deployments, combat veterans yeah, veterans, or whatever. And when I showed up to the team originally, so I didn't take leave or permissive TDY when I left, when I graduated the Q course, when I earned my green beret after Robin Sage, I didn't take no leave because I heard that if you get there first before the CSM, the sergeant majors put everybody where they're going. Then you get a chance to like, hey, where this is where I want to go, right. So I show up there and they're like uh, csm doesn't have you assigned anywhere where you want to go so that did happen that did happen, right.
Speaker 2:So, uh. So I get there and then I'm just like man, I didn't know anything about the battalion. So I'm like, well, I don't know. And he's like I'm like who's deploying? And they go 1st Battalion's going to Afghanistan and I'm like that's where I want to go. You know what I mean. So I go over there to 1st Battalion. They were just starting PMT mission training and um, but obviously nobody told like those guys have already got their roster already set up. So now I'm like, oh, you're going to the b team. And I'm like, shit, so the b team is just like the support effort for the odas, right. So, uh, so I went there, did pmt with the beam with the b team and then I came. When we got back from that uh, pmt, one of the guys that was on one of the odas was like, hey, he didn't re-enlist. So then they uh got an opening and they're like, hey, you're going to 726 oda, 726, oda, 726.
Speaker 1:So I went over there for my initial deployment do the numbers stay the same as far as the odas?
Speaker 2:so, uh, so, yeah, so, yes, so they had three battalions Back then. They used to have three battalions, right, and the team number stayed the same. Then they added a fourth battalion and then they changed it up again. But now they just changed it back to where it's all the old numbers. So all the old numbers are still the same. So ODA 726 are the same. Oda 726 that was in Roger Donnelly, that was Medal of Honor winner. That's awesome, that's good unit history. Yeah, yeah, great unit history. On there you can track your ODA's history back all the way.
Speaker 1:So, leading up to the deployment, what kind of training were you guys doing?
Speaker 2:You know it was all combat-oriented, depending on what the mission that set that you were, that you're going to do. But you know, gun trucks, uh, at that point too we still did like pack animal training. Give me like on horses and donkeys. That was still like a kind of a thing back then at that time too. Yeah, so you're like, at the initial time I ever got on a donkey or a horse was a damn good class. You're gonna get on this donkey and this horse, right? I mean so learning that stuff, yeah, so it just those tactics is small unit tactics really. Uh, mortars um, uh did a lot of like berm drills, close air support, calling cast. I mean all that kind of stuff. Now, do you have your own cage with equipment drills, close air support, calling casts?
Speaker 1:all that kind of stuff. Now do you have your own cage with equipment?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the team rooms are pretty solid right. So, like I mean, every group has a little bit different setup. But yeah, so you have all of your team room right and then under you know, you have another area where you have all your equipment right Sometimes it's in the same building and then you have an another area where you have all your equipment right sometimes it's in the same building and then you have an arms room where you have all your and your weapon systems and that there.
Speaker 1:So were you impressed with the type of gear you were getting outfitted with?
Speaker 2:yeah, even back then I mean it wasn't like, um, like what it is now, right, but it was still like better than what I had whenever I came from, you know, the conventional army, you know. So like that was still like we were getting. Well, that trip there, for that trip to Afghanistan, you know, we had called Gustavs. The way we used to run our gun trucks were we'd have two 50 cals. So for this trip we were in the Helmand province, right, so we had two 50, 50 cows. So for this trip, we were in the Hellman province, right, so we had two 50 cows. So I had a 50 cow. Mark 19, 50 cow.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:On that truck, that 50 cow, I had a 240 on one side, so I had 50 cow, 240, 249, right and in the back of the truck I had another 240.
Speaker 1:What kind of what did the truck look like?
Speaker 2:It was a GMV.
Speaker 1:A Humvee. A Humvee, yeah, but without the doors on the side. Without the doors on the side, yeah, so you're talking about there was 249?.
Speaker 2:I'm talking about whenever I was, I'm talking about in the gun truck. As a turret gunner I had a .50 cal, a .240.
Speaker 1:Were they mounted. Were the side weapons mounted?
Speaker 2:They were mounted yeah, cow, a 240 was. Were they mounted? Were the side weapons mounted? They were mounted. Yeah, then on the uh, the, the, the drivers or the tc had a swing arm for a 240, holy shit, and the rear guy had a 240 holy shit, dude, so that was your gun truck gun truck setups, you know, and actually they changed between deployments. Uh, we had a 60 millimeter mortar on every gun truck, a Carl G on every gun truck.
Speaker 1:Was the Humvee enclosed or open aired?
Speaker 2:It was open aired.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, I'm trying to get the visual of all those SF fucking vehicles man, that's a straight straight special forces.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, because the reality of it is like so on those trips, man, we were going out, man some just three gun trucks and three gun trucks and some partner force, maybe three or four Hiluxes, and we're going out troops in contact every time we went out. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:You said you were in the Helmand province. Helmand, yeah, was that very mountainous in that area.
Speaker 2:I mean you had Highway 611 there, and then you had the mountains there also, but you still had a lot of desert there, so you had the mountains blocking on one side. So you're you know what I mean. You had 611 in the helmand river. What year was this?
Speaker 1:this was 2007 okay, because because afghanistan picked up again you remember it was iraq got busy oh, it was a while out west and then it went back to afghanistan. Got busy as fuck again to run that time frame. Yeah 2006,.
Speaker 2:2007 is when I, so I was there from 2007 to 2008, 2008 to 2009.
Speaker 1:Did you see a change in the enemy?
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, I mean the TTPs develop on kind of what we're doing. Right, you know what I mean. So you have to kind of adjust your TTPs. You know, biggest thing, like when we initially got there, um, so when we pulled in, so that trip there was was interesting because we originally went to man, I can't even think of the fire base we were at when we went into, uh, afghanistan, but it was nice, it had like a pool and I was just like had like everybody, it was like inside of a building and everybody had their own room and uh, I used, you know, I had already had a couple combat deployments on my iraq trip, like we were, we were living in like, yeah, little garbage, right, and I'm just like man, you guys got it made.
Speaker 2:This is easy, this ain't even a deployment, blah, blah. And I'm like thinking at first, man, this is how sf rolls, like this is pretty, you know, this is you know. And man, we were there for like a week and I'm like man, foot in mouth, and then we, they were doing a, a full clearing operation of the Hellman province, and I'm talking about it was like old school, like Iraq, like a four line of troops, like we I don't even how many like we had tank. It was fully like moved like through that, I don't even know how many like we had tank, it was fully like moved like through that I don't even know how many hundred-plus vehicle convoy it was and we went through there and cleared through the Humboldt Province and never came back. We stayed there the whole time like 10 months.
Speaker 2:Really, yeah, never went back to that old fire base. I'd never even seen that fire base again and we stayed fob rob the whole time. Damn, yeah. So, but that trip we went through and there was an oda that was like um, so we were with like the forward line of troops, right, and then like people were clearing out, right, because they knew we were coming. So we really didn't. We got a little sporadic contact, wasn't a whole lot and but there was this one oda that was up, it was clearing, like probing up up on 6-11, and they were just troops in contact, they were getting after it right.
Speaker 1:Were they.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we were like hearing it on the radio and like really, at this point, like me personally, like I hadn't been really like had any like really like troops in contact or really any big engagements yet. So here I'm like itching, like like hey, sir, why aren't we going up there, Like you know, that kind of dumb shit? Yeah, like the other thing about trying to get out of it, get into it, you know, and it was funny, man, because that team that was back in the days when guys were getting away with a lot of shit, the higher headquarters were like, hey, stand fast, don't probe any further, you know. And they went comms black, holy shit, dude. They're just like bro, we're doing whatever we want. They were just getting after it, damn. And I look at that back now and they're just getting after it, right.
Speaker 2:And then finally they end up taking I can't remember, I don't know if it was an RPG or like a recoilless rifle, went right through a mud hut and right into one of their GMVs, right. So they were out of commission. Then they get back on the horn again. Hey, we need, we need some help right after they're getting some, some shit. Yeah, they get some shit. Hey, we need some help. So at that point we probed up, uh, to where they were at, and then from there like real world.
Speaker 1:You're like, oh shit, this is real I mean a bit, let's, uh, let's take a quick break, real quick I'm gonna take a piss, yeah, yeah yeah and uh yeah, we're about an hour into it.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, perfect.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Thank you good, leo. All right, so those troops end up getting into contact. Did you guys respond to that as qrf or anything?
Speaker 2:yeah, we responded and went straight up there, kind of like their QRF, and then once that kind of broke the seal and then it was just like game on. And then for the rest of that deployment we were just probing and after you kind of have that forward line of troops and population starts coming back in, then it's game on everywhere again. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:How large was the enemy um?
Speaker 2:so it's kind of hard to, it's hard to tell like reality. You get reports in or whatever, but it's not really like in, like the movies where you see the enemy you know what I mean like they're in compounds. Like they're in wood lines they're in, you know caves. Like they're in, like canals, like you know what I mean. Like so when you're getting engaged lines they're in, you know caves. Like they're in, like canals, like you know what I mean. Like so when you're getting engaged and it's troops in contact, a lot of times it's known, likely, suspected, right, and you're like because you don't know Right, and the reality of it is what? Like it's not like the movies where you think like, oh, you get shot at and you're like, oh, it's coming from that building 500 meters away.
Speaker 2:That shit's not real right, because it takes being shot at a significant amount of time before you can kind of tell. Like when things are whizzing by you and you go okay, boom, that's the general direction of where it is. Okay, you know what I'm saying. So, like once you kind of get that. It took a little while, I think after a while the oda was like oh, boom, you can spot up on it. But the initial, initial troops in contact. Obviously it's like kind of chaos because you're, like known, likely suspected to try to figure out where the enemy was actually engaging you at.
Speaker 1:So were they at a distance the majority of the time.
Speaker 2:Through those deployments. I mean, there was all kinds of those deployments. I'm telling you right now. It was wild west. At some points we were engaged, the ODA was engaged by less than 50 meters, like off the road. Less than 50 meters. Less than 50 meters.
Speaker 1:That's close as fuck man.
Speaker 2:Close as shit, man, like running through, like there was some pretty tough, there was some all kinds of different situations and this one here specifically. You know they were at distance because at that location, to kind of give you like a visual, like you're kind of up like on a little bit of a high ground right and kind of like the desert and you kind of the lower ground there in the helmand province you have like the buildings, like the mud huts right, 611, and then the helmand river, that's green so. So you have like a little bit of of height on them right. So you have like that tackle advantage. Especially at that point they haven't started laying ieds on that high ground yet. Um, so you're doing kind of berm drills and just probing that way, and then no one likely suspected, you know, so you guys were taking fire uh from the ground up yeah, really yeah, you guys had.
Speaker 1:Then you guys had the um tactical elevation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we had a elevation there and that's why, like, a lot of those berm drills are like great, are great, because you can maneuver to where, if they start shooting you with an RPG or a recoil-less rifle and recoil-less rifles specifically you can hear as soon as it's fired.
Speaker 2:And it's kind of like, if people don't know, it's kind of almost like their equivalent of R Carl Gustav. Okay Right, r Carl Gustav is kind of equivalent of like an AT-4, but you can just reload it. Okay, right, so you hear the initial poof, you know what I mean, where it is, and then at that point you're just like the RTTP, rsop was the gunner controlled that vehicle. So if I might back up, back up, then you back up to a point so you have enough devil aid to where that turret is just coming over that elevation so I can engage the enemy and the rounds are skipping up over right and or, like as the rpg comes, you're backing up and they're just kind of coming over your turret so it's kind of like hearing the mortar, because I mean I have experience in hearing the mortar launch, yep, and then be like hey move, fuck, yeah, right.
Speaker 1:And I, you know, for the crowd out there, yeah, there'd be like hey, move, fuck, yeah, right. And I, you know, for the crowd out there, yeah. There'd be times where I was on the fob in Iraq and you can hear boom or or, and you're like fuck, yeah, yeah, because it was just a matter of time before the rounds started coming in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like that's kind of where you like your troops in contact. A lot of it was, and obviously there's different because there's different situations. You may be down clearing compounds or there's times where you're clearing like actually in the village, and then now you have a whole different set of TTPs and how you react and everything else there.
Speaker 1:How was it clearing villages and compounds?
Speaker 2:Was there a threat of mines? So every deployment is a little different. In the Helmand province, right, there was initially where we're clearing and probing through. There are certain areas in there you're not clearing man. Why is?
Speaker 1:that, because you'll die how. How so is it considered? Don't black and don't fucking like you.
Speaker 2:So if you gotta look at it too, you're an oda, right, you have gun trucks. You have three gun trucks, yeah, right. So I have maybe 12 guys. I have to have people at the gun trucks. So that means that I have a driver and a gunner at a minimum of the gun trucks. That's one, two, three, four, five. That's six guys. Now I'm gonna send six guys in the green zone. Like they wouldn't survive, like you know what I mean. Like that's how bad it was, to a point to where you're taking contact. So you'd show, show up, women and children would leave.
Speaker 1:Because there was such a strong everybody. Everybody was Taliban. Everybody was, everybody was Taliban.
Speaker 2:Everybody was Taliban. You go down there, every finding age male was Taliban, like. So like, at the end of the day, you, you, you. But we had one operation where we had a whole candac commandos like out there and, um, they barely got 50, 150 meters into the wood zone and they just started getting their.
Speaker 2:There's just so much resistance and at the end of the day, they were just smart enough to see. So if you start probing in some of those areas, yeah right, like the smartest thing they can do is they'll just let you in for 50, 100, 50, 100 meters. Oh my god, you're not, you're done. You know what I mean? Because those compounds are surrounded. Did you guys ever use?
Speaker 1:recon by fire.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we used a lot of tactics but at the end of the day you really didn't have to have recon by fire because they would engage with you. So what would happen? You'd show up, women and children would start leaving the area. Women and children would leave and you're like like, all right, it's about ready to be game on, and then women and children leave and then they would start engaging the ODA. And then from there, at that point, now you're, now you know, at that point you're, you're, you're identifying, uh, enemy locations, you know you're dropping casts, you're dropping mortars, like we had.
Speaker 2:The ODA was down, so pat by by that, the end of that first deployment, a second deployment, we would be troops in contact. As soon as we got troops in contact, they would have the 60 millimeter mortars out and putting rounds on the enemy within a minute. And just like, boom, boom, boom, like, because violence of action, whenever you only have an ODA, like violence of action is what saves life Absolutely. You know what I mean. So like you have to. That's why I had so many other, how I had so many weapons on there right, if my 50 cal went down, I transitioned straight over to my 240 right and started laying down and then I then, once that went down, I'd you know, I'd back up and reload. That's why people don't understand, like, like, once you are troops in contact like that and you've done that over and over and over again, you understand the reason for intention to detail. It's a reason why your drill sergeants put that in your head so young, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Oh, the smallest fucking detail, the smallest thing, and you're like listen, why is that even a thing?
Speaker 2:Why do I need to make my bed like that? Why do I need to do this and that? Now I will say sometimes it gets lost on the reason for it. Correct, Right, Because some of these guys are doing attention to detail but they don't understand the reason for it, right? Whenever we got to a point to where you would show up to a new location, whatever, like you know whether you were driving or were stopped and controlled, a compound or whatever, the first thing you did was do a range card. You're taking out your laser range fighter and you're saying okay, listen, so from here to here, this is 400 meters. Okay, I can be engaged by a PKM, I can be engaged by RPG and a recolus rifle.
Speaker 1:Hey, we're going to move back this is what I wanted to ask you, yeah, and I'm glad you're talking about it right now. So you get information that you need to hit a compound or drive to a compound or drive around a compound. So you're telling me you would drive to the location ways back, recon the area, do a range card, get the, the meters, the distance. What else did this whole process look like?
Speaker 2:So it kind of depended on what the mission was. A lot of times at that point like you're just, you're just, you're, you're doing a react to contact drill.
Speaker 2:So react to contact, so you're just at this point, this point, for this portion of of, like this deployment, we're just driving up to locations and come on Absolutely Picking a fight, absolutely All we're picking a fight. You know what I mean. And at that point then you're, you know, you're, you're, you're looking at. Okay, hey, listen, if I'm going to be engaged, where am I going to be engaged from? Right, I'm putting the data on my tne, right, so I have it if I need it. A lot of times I'd free gun it, but if I knew there's a part, I had that tne there, just in case.
Speaker 2:Right, um, guys are already knowing their deflection, given their. Okay, if I gotta hit a target, what is it at right, this is what people. I've already got a nine line already ready. I already know that stuff like so, all these things that like these attention to details and stuff that you can prepare pre-planning. Pre-planning because, like, when shit hits the fan you don't have time. Like the, the fact that you can limit how much decision making you need to make in stressful combat situations, the more effective you're going to be it's not just combat, though, it's police, it's law enforcement, it's.
Speaker 1:You know, I was in corrections, it's corrections. You know people think, oh, this person is solid. It's not that they're solid, it's that they've already rehearsed everything prior to making contact.
Speaker 2:Exactly you know what I mean and like so, like that thing that is so important, that like that stuff is done, because the reason why you start realizing it is because of wisdom, right, Because after a while, you know originally, you know we first got there and you're winging it, and you're like like, okay, this has got to change. Man, like you know what I mean. And you're like because we were going out and, um, we would go out for you know, four to seven days at a time, come back, do a refit and then go back out. We got the resupply set pretty good to do a resupply bundle there. I mean, we go be black on ammo. I'm talking about three gun trucks that are carrying as much ammo as it can possibly hold and the reason why we had to go back was because we needed more ammo Really.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Going black on mortars, carl G's 50-pound Like I don't think people understand that I'm in the province Once you go black.
Speaker 1:No, I don't, that's what I'm asking you, so once you go black, is it automatically a fucking return of base?
Speaker 2:So originally like obviously, uh, the, the captain, the team, the leadership is doing a good like you know check, like okay, where are we at? What's our status? Right, right, lace report yeah, exactly so to make sure our status is good or whatever. And then there's times where you can kind of plan that right, and then at the end of the day like okay, hey, we're getting low, we need to go back, right, but then the birds would start at night. We'd get a resupply from the birds, so the birds would drop it in. So then that point it kind of allowed us to stay out a little bit, allowed us to stay out longer. So you guys were busy as fuck, bro. We had a board I'll say it because we're on this show we had a board when we come back and the team guys, like the solid guys, would go days without killing and it would never get past a day or two.
Speaker 1:That's good, I mean, and they have very good, it's good to have that on on the our side, the american fighting so uh, so yeah, so it was.
Speaker 2:Um, it was a, uh, it was the. The oda was solid man. Those dudes were a good uh, good, good um, fuck you.
Speaker 1:You, I'm told your mind operates at a higher level, were you? And were you ever thinking about what the enemy was thinking of? Like, damn, these guys are fucking us up, or these guys are good um man, I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 2:So I think the enemy probably at that point they're just, and you got to think about it too. It's like we're in their country, right. So there's some like realization there, we're in their country. They're living in mud huts, don't have shit else to do. They're probably just like I'm bored. Let's go shoot at the americans like. You know what I mean. You have to kind of look, put yourself in their shoes.
Speaker 1:You don't think there was more to it, like jihad or religion?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you had all that stuff in there too. You had a little bit about all of it, like you know what I mean, but like the reality of it is, this is combat, this is war, right, so this is what people don't understand, right, but you're being engaged, yeah, from compounds, right, like the enemy doesn't come out here and just say, hey, I'm right here, you know what I mean. They'll shoot at you from wherever. Right, facts you know. So like the reality of it is is now, you know you get these casualties that happen and you just turn people. It's just a total shit show man. I get it like war. This is one thing I talk about. War like war is like people don't understand. It's like, oh, it's fun whenever you're winning.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't think it's ever fun well, yeah, but I think like people like get this like this kind of like this mentality right, like it's like, oh, it's just like this, great thing. But it's not so much fun when you're getting your teeth kicked in, right, whenever your brothers are getting killed, right, whenever there's people that are that are close to you, that are dying and you're like and this isn't, this isn't kind of what I remember we killed a dude in front of his two young children.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and all I could think about like those two young children are gonna hate americans. Oh, yeah, forever yeah.
Speaker 2:So like it's like the reality of this you'll start setting in. You know, I tell these young guys that all the time I'll make be careful. What you wish for man, absolutely, because like once you get it, like it's going to change you. There's no way to get around it.
Speaker 1:You know would you guys do um battle assessments? Would you ever go into a location after you made contact? So?
Speaker 2:it depends on the location. Like I said, the Helmand provinces are in that time. You're not going in doing BDA, you're not. No, you wouldn't Like. People don't understand.
Speaker 1:Like I'm telling you there's no, you could not. Did you guys ever have to call in?
Speaker 2:a nine line. Yeah, we call in nine lines. Did you ever have to treat wounded taliban or wounded enemy? Um, yeah, we had, like we had. Well, they never said they were wounded taliban. Oh, we're just out, we just got shot. Nobody comes in. It's like, hey, you just shot me. Oh, I was just.
Speaker 1:I was just farming, I was moving my wheelbarrow and I got shot like you know what I mean oh, really oh that how convenient, you know, damn dude so no, it's good to know, man, it's good to know war, like everything it entails oh yeah yeah, so I know we were talking about briefly before we started recording, and I asked you about the movie the lone survivor.
Speaker 1:yeah, uh, the marcus latrell story, um, and we were talking about tactics. I mean, if you want to go and piggyback off, what we were talking about was how and I know you don't want a Monday morning quarterback, right, and that's not what we're here for but you're like, hey, man, they had options up there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So this is the thing it's like I always try not to. I always try not to like, actually, because there's things that I've learned throughout my career, that I've learned through mistakes made and now I'm like okay, because I that those trips that that I've made, that I've seen other guys make, and through that teammate, has brought me to where I'm at now. Right, right, is that the same decision I would have made back in 2006, 2007? I could have been in the same situation that they were in Correct Because, like I didn't, what you don't know sometimes you don't know that you have options to right. You don't know what you don't know. You don't know what you don't know until you start like doing this for a while and then your tactics kind of change and you start thinking outside the box and kind of all this other stuff. You know there are other, there are all, always are other options. You know that you could. That can happen.
Speaker 2:Um, I'll tell you one of our TTPs whenever we would have like that is, you would just take the partner force or take the whoever that was civilian with you, right, like.
Speaker 2:So at the end of days, we've had similar like situations to where, um, we're like okay, either like partially compromised, or maybe we just don't want to get shot at that day. Facts Right, you all are coming with us and we put them in. You know, hey, listen, you're running with us. And then at the end of the day, they would stay with us the whole time, right, and then whenever we did the X fill right, they would come straight with us to the bird and we'd leave them there, get on the bird and then fly off. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So, like, it's easy for me to say like that now, because I have the ttp experience to do that, right, um, but there's also times there too, you know. You know, I try not to armchair quarterbacking, because there are certain times where I know things that I have done in combat where I'm like that was stupid, because you start almost getting this, like this sense of like invincibility at a time, right, especially after you've done it for a long time, right, and you're like well, maybe that, maybe that played a role in it.
Speaker 2:The mindset like we're good fuck, yeah, we're good, right, and you don't think of, like, the consequences of some of the decisions that you make, right? So, um, but only thing we can do is like, this is the data that we had at that time, this is the decision we made and this we move forward with it. You know, so it's, it's. It's tough, man, especially because the situation like that, you know, those were still people's husbands, fathers, sons. You know what I mean. So, like, I always try to be very, very careful because I don't want to discredit any person and their decisions that they made at that time.
Speaker 1:I'm not gathering that from you at all. It was a good topic, talking point of things that happened in war, yeah, things that do happen in war.
Speaker 2:And a lot of times you're just not thinking or just don't know, or kind of what we talked about before, don't plan properly and you don't think about all those contingencies that could happen, the more contingencies that you can think of that can happen. When all those contingencies that could happen, the more contingencies that you can think of that can happen. When those things do happen, you're not even questioning it, you already have an answer for it. You can't get everything, but you can get as close as you possibly can. You know, right, like this is the thing about. Like, so at the end of the day, like, if I go to a compound and I have the, I've done an analysis, mission analysis of the enemy position and where they're at right, and I take contact from them, right, and let's say that a vehicle goes down, the answer to how far the enemy QRF is already there.
Speaker 2:I can look at the map and I can ask you hey, listen, my 18 Fox, my intel guy. Hey, where's the next enemy location? Oh, it's in this city, okay, well, how long would it take them to get together, get their gun trucks and get to this location? 35 minutes, boom, something goes wrong. We have 35 minutes. How long does our qrf take to get there? 60 minutes, oh shit, we got a problem. Okay, I haven't even hit the ground yet and I'm already gathering all this information because I'm like preparing, because for the worst case scenario, right, so hey, so let's plan ahead. Can we bring our qrf a little bit closer so they can be there in 20 minutes?
Speaker 1:Did the worst case scenario ever happen to you in Afghanistan?
Speaker 2:Oh man, I mean there was a lot of like really bad worst case scenarios happening the certain times. One specifically was um that trip, uh, we were in Kajaki, sofla, pushing through doing an operation, and the 82nd was um clearing on the other side of the Helmand River and on their exfil one of the birds got shot down like 100 meters from our location. So one of the schnucks got shot down. So that was like bad. Did you have to respond to that? Yeah, yeah, we were the first.
Speaker 1:What was that?
Speaker 2:scene like, oh man, it was rough because, like, obviously, when those things happen, like all this data is coming in because we don't know, the ODA doesn't know, Are those guys still in the bird? Did they get out on the other side of the Helmand River? You know what I mean. Is it a bunch of 82nd guys? Is it just a crew? Like who is it that's still in there, you know? And then we get to the crash site. We start taking heavy contact. The 82nd was with us. They ended up getting hit. We ended up getting to the wreckage and then we don't know how many personnel are there that we have to recover off from there.
Speaker 1:Was the helicopter destroyed?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it was a big ball of flames. It was like spread all over the place. You know what I mean. So yeah, it was spread all over the place and then we secured the objective and then, like we went Winchester I don't know how many birds or you know, the enemy personnel are trying to—they were actually being pretty aggressive at that point because obviously a bird went down right Even at night. Normally at night they usually kind of even then they calm down because they know they don't have really the advantage. But that night obviously, you know, they were like, hey, we just shot down a bird.
Speaker 1:Did the bird get shot down during the day or during the night?
Speaker 2:It was right at. You know, dusk, it was. It was all. It was dark, though, when the bird got shot down.
Speaker 1:And, ultimately, how long did that operation take of having a fight?
Speaker 2:off the enemy and recover the. So, um, we were there before. Then we were there. I can't remember how long we got there before they came in maybe a day or two, and then, once the bird got shot down, we're there all the next, maybe a day or two, and then, once the bird got shot down, we're there all the next, all that night, all the next day, and then, um, uh, you know, we're, we're there at the site, like all night. We covered all the personnel and then we pushed back out of the green zone a little bit and provided overwatch on the crash site. You know, uh, which was the best tactical decision, right? So we did that.
Speaker 2:And then the thing that really sucked this is the one thing where you really have an issue with right, they made us we had to go all the way back to our fire base, which was a full day, like you know drive, going through a gauntlet of like theiest place. You know what I mean like. So, so we, so we, we, when we went back, I can't remember at that point, I think we went back to um through the desert and we grow through poppy fields to avoid the, uh, the ieds, right? So we get there. And as soon as we get there, they're like, hey, y'all have to go back to secure the wreckage. And I'm like, are my 50 cows different than your 50 cows? Like, why didn't y'all? Because the reality, the tactically sound thing to do, was for our oda to stay there and secure the objective to make sure nobody else comes in. Nobody else comes in. They don't plat any ids, right, they don't. They don't booby trap the damn thing, right? They don't take a bunch of pictures and all this other shit, right?
Speaker 2:And then have the other element came through. So we go up there and we convoy back. You know two big-ass records and then a whole bunch of other gun trucks and they have like, I'm like, are your 50 cals different than mine? Like what's going on here? Well, was that a poor fucking judgment call? I think, for the end of the day, this is the problem. At that point, and depending on where we're at with the war, we had all the combat experience. The SF guys were going out and getting after it all the time and I always used to get this. All the time I was like, oh, these guys don't have the experience. And I'm like they don't have the experience because you're like listen, these guys can come out here and and do it you know, were they regular army, big army no, at this point I want to say that one was the brits.
Speaker 2:Oh, it was the brits yeah, the brits who wouldn't leave the wire unless the sfs court.
Speaker 2:So like I'm just like, oh man, I was pissed, you know but that happened all the time it did happen all the time and I'm like so we used to have to go back and get our own supplies from kandahar. So we used to leave fab rob to go to kandahar to get a whole bunch of jingle trucks and convoy them back there, while we're not out, going out and doing combat operations. Right, and I'm like isn't there, mos is supposed to be doing this shit, because nobody else would would do it, because they're like oh, it's dangerous. I'm like no shit dangerous. That's why we have an army, right, like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So like that was really, really frustrating. So what was going through your brain as you're heading back to the crash site, man?
Speaker 2:So heading back to the crash site was rough, because now we're on 611. This is the main highway right and I'm like, oh, we're going to get jacked up.
Speaker 1:Were you in a leadership position.
Speaker 2:What's up? Were you in a leadership position? No, I was brand new cherry. Oh, you were brand new cherry.
Speaker 2:This was my initial trip to SF and I'm like, holy shit, this is what I'm getting. This is like I used to think I was a tough kid and I'm like, oh man, like no, this is real, this is, you're trying to kill me, man. So uh, so yeah, so like I was just like, oh my gosh, this is a total shit show, you know. But luckily we got to the crash site. Um, they loaded up the, uh, the wreckage that they could. From there, we didn't get any troops in contact and end up getting it, taking us straight back to well, that's a good thing.
Speaker 2:It's a good thing, well, because our our, our captain and our cct or a jtac at that time. Winchester didn't and took care of everybody that night before like, luckily, they.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean did you guys have uh sniper elements and or the ability to call in airstrikes?
Speaker 2:yeah, we were airstrikes all night long that night, like we airstriked all night long.
Speaker 1:I'm talking about, like in general, throughout the deployment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So well, there were some times where, like, because you have to like, you had certain depending on who was on station, right, so it was still NATO was there. So you may have a bird that was on station that was from another country and their roe sometimes would not align with ours, so then they wouldn't want to stop drop, you know, but like the ccts and the j tax that were very, very experienced, would call them off if they would get certain birds from certain countries and be like, nope, you can leave station, and they'd pull them up, push them off and get somebody else in station. You know what I To drop.
Speaker 2:So we ended up getting one particularly time where the ODA this was a different, not the same trip, this was a different trip. It was still in the Helmand Province the ODA got hit. They were going down 611 and they got key holed right, pretty much like you're going past these alleyways, right, and so the enemy was waiting. They waited for the first truck to go through and now they're set up and once that second truck comes through so at the end of the day you get this alleyway All they have to do is wait for that, the front of that vehicle to come by and they just opened up right and that one, I think I don't know exactly what, hit them. We've seen the truck afterwards but it was like a. If I was to guess it looked like it was probably like a Spig 9. It went, and this time this trip we had RGs and it went straight through that RG like butter right.
Speaker 1:Could have been an EFP maybe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but like they didn't really have EFPs like that, like an IED, like they were taking contact, so like as soon as they engaged with that weapon system, right, and it went straight through the RG, they started opening it up on PKMs and everything else, right, and those guys that were in that truck man, were like pinned down pretty good. You know, we had one Terp. One of the guys was sitting. They switched spots right, like right before they went in there, and then when the SPIG-9 went through it took off one of our Terp's legs. What is a SPIG-9? Is it a?
Speaker 1:round like a sable round.
Speaker 2:So a SPIG-9 is just like it's a recoilless rifle, right, but it's a little bit bigger than that right. Cordless rifle, okay, right, um, but it's a little bit bigger than that, right. And then the there are some kind of there are some rounds, that that there's. You know russian technology that they had where you can go through some of that stuff. You know what I mean. Part, there is another one. There's certain things I don't know. I remember when I was instructor at the weapons committee it was like, classified on it it wasn't a spig nine, it was something else. So I don't know what's been classified or declassified. So I'm trying to like, not go crazy on certain things because I don't know. You know what I mean, yeah, but was there any?
Speaker 1:uh, was there ever an incident or a time where you felt like you were gonna die because it got so mad?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, all the time, like all the time, like it was just constant. So I would say for me and I think most of the guys on that team I would say, because I was a gunner, I felt like I had more control. Okay, right, these guys that are just sitting there as the driver and the TC, like them, I kind of feel for those guys because they got to trust me, that that I'm doing what I'm supposed to be. You know what I mean, because they're just sitting there just like, oh shit, I hope Terry's locking it down, because if not, so like to me, that put a lot of like, like responsibility on me. So, like I really made sure like violence of action was not a problem, Right, but like the troops in contact didn't really the initial one was initial ones were kind of a little tough and you're like, oh shit, this is real, but as it kind of went on, they didn't bother me as so much there were. There were some times where there are some really really close ones to where, like RPGs are banging up off the trucks and you're like Whoa shit up off the trucks and you're like whoa shit, that was close, you know incoming coming in, and you're like they start bracketing on us, like there's some things that you're just like, oh shit, you know, um, uh.
Speaker 2:So there's some close calls but the ones, truthfully, that got me the most is driving with the ieds man. You know. Like, because you're going through, like you don't know, like that's the constant anxiety and like a lot of people don't understand this, they're like, oh, you know, you have some of these vets and some of these guys are like, oh, you didn't see much combat and I'm like, yeah, but you're rolling around, like that's even worse, in my opinion. I'm driving around, I can't return fire and then like boom, a vehicle in front of me blows up and everybody I know is gone. Oh, it's a shitty feeling, man, it's a terrible feeling, right.
Speaker 2:And then so like we had really good TTPs on how to do that, but like we'd be driving, you know, in convoy and our you know like I hit two IEDs while I was in Afghanistan. Luckily I had one. We, our gun truck, hit one in on 611, just getting ready to get up on our fire base and I'm like, how did they put an ied there? Like we have a guard I can see the guard tower like how did they get an ied this close right and I'm like our partner force was why I'm like, how did they get the idea this close? But luckily it hit right in the front of the gmv, you know, engulfed the uh, the gmv I broke, you know, I ended up breaking my ribs on that one, but it wasn't crazy, right. Um, it could have been way worse, right, right. And then we hit one in an RG that took off the tire. But, like on that trip, like guys were, you know, it was just a common thing, you know.
Speaker 1:What is 611, like a main supply route Like MSR Tampa yeah?
Speaker 2:it's just like a road. It was Highway 611. Hardball it's the main road in Hellmand province that connects. You know, uh, you know, sangin kajaki sofla is it hardball? No, it's all, it's all dirt. It's all dirt, damn dude. Well, it was dirt at that time. I don't know what. I don't know what it is now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but was it like double lane, four lanes? What is it?
Speaker 2:no, just two lanes, two lanes, two lane, shithole, dirt, dirt road.
Speaker 1:Damn were they prone to enemy attacks yeah.
Speaker 2:so like from there, like. So the reality of the highway 611 was is like once you're there and once we got there, so originally, when we originally got there, we're using 611 for a little while, right, yeah. And then, uh, then you know, we start. You know, the ambushes start and ieds were like okay, we gotta got to change DTP because no American force was in there and nobody was doing it. So it gave us a little bit of tactical advantage. But now that we set a pattern Right, okay, now we got to change the pattern right. So now, as we're leaving the fire base, we drive through poppy fields, we drive in the desert, we zigzag all over the place, you know driving the desert, we'd zigzag all over the place, you know so like you wouldn't be hitting ieds.
Speaker 1:Now, as you're driving through the poppy field, are you just driving over poppies?
Speaker 2:yeah, you're just like. It's like just you know what I mean. It's like because they're not gonna put ieds in the correct, because they're trying to grow property.
Speaker 1:We drive all through that, right, yeah so was there a large drug trafficking network in your area?
Speaker 2:oh yeah, all helmet province. That's their main source of income. Opium is opium, yeah, yeah, and like that's staying there too and that's what we kind of knowing where you're at and like doing a mission analysis and a lot of stuff. You know when you could get in the green zone when they were harvesting poppy, they wouldn't fight you during that time because if you're fighting then they can't harvest their opium, damn right, so at that. So at that point you're like okay, if I want to get like weapons caches or whatever and I need to get in there, that's the time I want to do that. So you're, you know what I mean. So, like all these things like that you can like there's a lot into like combat and that stuff that guys really don't kind of Was the Did you tell you guys were receiving with a fairly accurate as far as did you guys get high value targets that you were supposed to go after Different trips?
Speaker 2:We had some different like HVTs that we you know, if we were close by, we would like possibly hit that trip. There was mainly just react to contact. We were just there just to pick a fight. Man, I was just, I was just there to get after it. You know, there's some other trips that we, um, we did.
Speaker 2:I did a prison raid, which was actually later on, and how was that? Um, that was pretty, that was good. You know, um, it's not like a prison raid Like you think, like a prison prison like in the us, like you know what I mean. It's not like a prison like that. There's just a whole bunch of people in a mud hut, they're just being confined. You know what I mean? Um, so I did that one. I can't remember what year I did that. I was a team sergeant when I we did that one. So, uh, we did another one that was actually pretty good. This was with our oda, I can't remember what trip it was. We did a um, uh, like an ID, like a pretty big HVT at that time.
Speaker 2:We ended up hitting, you know, but most of that was like, if you're looking at the really, really high, like level level ones, like the HVTs, usually they're bringing in, they're doing a lot of planning and coordination, front for it, that there's another asset that's just focuses on that to go hit those targets. There's one time, I think on one of our trips I think it was our initial trip there was a reporter that was, um, a hostage, damn right, but it wasn't a us reporter, it was a foreign national reporter and there was some intel on it. So the oda got that intel and they're like we're prepping to do it, like they were possibly wanting us to do it, but the reality is what they're wanting us to do and where it was located at. We're like, hey, listen, like this isn't and the intel wasn't good, you know. And then, once they confirmed intel wasn't good, we ended up doing the operation, you know.
Speaker 2:But that was just because the intel was like it was at our location at that time. You know what I mean. And they're like, hey, we want somebody to hit it, do it quick. So, like, all that stuff plays into a part. You know on what you're, what you're doing, or sometimes you'll, you'll hit clear through some compounds or whatever and come across. Oh, hey, we ended up hitting a HPT. They had, you know, systems to check guys right Later on, as the war started progressing, you know they had a good system of like okay, hey, who is this guy, you know, is he on the target list or whatever, versus just having some baseball card or something to look at? You know.
Speaker 1:Right, what type of relationship did you guys have with your interpreters?
Speaker 2:So we had a good relationship. We had one guy who was with us pretty much the whole time. Man, he's in the state side now. He is he's the one guy that lost his leg, so he was with us. Man, he'd been with SF. You can't even tell he's an interpreter. Like the dude looked like an SF guy. He was an Afghani but like he was working with SF guys since he was like 13, 14 years old, talked like an American, like didn't talk like american, talk like an sf guy chewing copenhagen, oh yeah, just like and uh and like. So he, you know he was a.
Speaker 2:He was a great asset because understanding the culture right, you have to understand the culture and a lot of times you know these guys, uh, the enemy are using these icons they're talking back and forth, right, and there's all kinds of chatter coming on the icon as you're driving or flying, whatever right, and you're having a good interpreter knowing are they talking about us? Are they talking about somebody else? What you interpret that like the tactical advantage on that, like you can't put a value on that, like you know what I mean. Like that guy was able to put us, get us out of some really shitty situations and let us know before they actually came.
Speaker 1:Now were their lives at risk for working with Americans.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, of course you know we had Terps that, like parents, didn't even know they were out helping the US right, because they were living in another location you know what I mean and coming out there and helping us in, like the Helmand Province or whatever. You know that trip. We ended up losing a couple turps, that trip you know, as a result of a what? As a result of an contact? Yeah, yeah, they end up getting killed fast forward to the withdrawal of afghanistan.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you saw it on television. Oh yeah, kabul airport yeah, what was your thoughts as you were watching that unfold?
Speaker 2:oh my gosh man, I was like I don't even know how to say it like there's a 12 year old kid playing call of duty that could have done a better withdrawal plan than that whole shit show. Like you know what I mean, I'm just like I did not understand, like how some of the smartest people allegedly allegedly in leadership positions could be that dumb?
Speaker 1:I don't think they were dumb, man. I think they were just following the agenda yeah.
Speaker 2:But so like this is the thing about. It is like anytime you withdraw on anything, right, it should have been a, a planned withdrawal and there should have been a backstop. So if I was gonna just off the cuff the cuff and I'm like, okay, we're going to have a withdrawal plan, I'm going to say, okay, hey, the first base we're going to withdraw is X base. We're going to draw it over here right to this location. If you engage us, I am going to kill everybody around there and I'll be here longer. One US personnel is shot. You just bought yourself a longer ticket, do you understand that? Right? And then, from there, okay, you met all requirements. Now I push back a little further. Whatever that looked like, you know, obviously you're going down and kind of, okay, hey, what makes what key areas? Do you want to hold longer, or whatever? Right?
Speaker 1:What about destroying?
Speaker 2:equipment. Oh well, oh well, yeah, that's just common sense, man. Like you know, what I mean and that's the thing about it there too is like there's some equipment that you're in need there to conduct combat operations and some equipment that you know. You know, I've always I looked at that, because there's times, like even during the gulf war, like they I heard them like they're just pushing shit off of ships, like some crazy stories. I'm like it's like we spent all this money on this stuff and we just leave it there and abandon it. You know, like does the military not have a plan for this? You know what I mean. Like what do we do? Like I'd like to look I never looked back in World War II. Like what do we do with all that equipment at that point whenever that war was over? You know, like there's maybe some financial you know reasons why. Hey, it's, it costs us less money to leave it. You know, destroy it there than to bring it back. Like I don't know, like what the brains, like some people, think, but like to me, I can't wrap my head around it. You know, um, but to like leave it there and not destroy it, like that's even worse. You know, especially certain key things, right, um, and now you know you'll have arguments. Well, they need the technology. There is maintenance stuff that you have to have on that stuff so that they're only gonna be able to use certain things for a certain amount of time. And they got to have the maintenance to to fix it, to use it. But still, the whole, it's not just that, it's the propaganda that's able to use by keeping that stuff there and keeping it used.
Speaker 2:You spend all this time in this country and all these resources, all this bloodshed, and then you pull out that shit show and then how can the enemy be like? Well, we won this war. Well, you know what I mean? Because they're just because of the withdrawal of the shit show of how they did you know? And then the reality of it is is like the there were American personnel, I don't care who. It says, there's American personnel. They left in Afghanistan. I believe it. Oh, a hundred percent, I believe it. So, and this is the thing about it is is I don't care what your personal opinion is on whatever, but you gave somebody a us citizenship right from another country. They're your citizen now. Facts, right. So, like now, you did not like, give them time to come back to where they're at. You know what I mean. Like that whole process.
Speaker 1:There is like a so how would you feel if you were one of those american citizens in afghanistan and they just left your ass?
Speaker 2:Oh man, like so this is the thing about it. There too, it's like, you know, if they put all this effort in in to serving their country by help serving our country, right, and then we gave them citizenship you know what I mean and then you just left them there, like how can you not feel abandoned? You know what I mean. But then, at the same token, you're still trying to get to the US because, like, you're going to die, your family is going to be at risk, you know, by just staying here. You know, but there's sometimes, like, where it's like, why wasn't that part of it Like, okay, all these people helped us, we're going to give citizenship to these people. And if there was a decision not to get citizenship to somebody else, are we okay with the loss that that's going to provide? Because everybody that helped us is on the chopping block?
Speaker 1:That's what I find to be immoral and unethical.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly Because the thing about it is. It's like was that not even a conversation Behind closed doors? Did they even talk about it, or did nobody even give a shit? I'll just be honest I don't think they gave a fuck. Yeah, that's the thing about it and that's like the shitty thing.
Speaker 2:To say like absolutely, yeah, it's in a day like you can be like okay, well, you know, whatever this decision is for what you do, but not even talk about it and not even consider it shows me how much of like zero you know. Empathy or ethical decisions that you're even kind of even considering, like war is hell, and there's decisions that we have to make.
Speaker 1:Right I'm like, but that was foul you know and and I'm dude I'm part of as patriotic as it comes, man, but that is embarrassing. Yeah, you know that that's an embarrassing thing that our country did, man, because not only that is, people will always remember that. Oh yeah, why the fuck would I help you when you did that to the last people that?
Speaker 2:we did that in vietnam with the mountain yards, did we? Yeah, I don't know, I'm not familiar with that history yeah, but like um, so that's the. You know that it's. It's. It sucks man fuck dude. So you recently retired from the military yep, retired in uh june this last year, man congrats on the retirement dude, yeah, so what is it that you're doing now? So right now I'm doing coaching, consulting Nice, yeah, where can people find you? Right now I do Instagram. What's your handle? It's terrymwilsonjr. Okay, yeah, and you're in Florida.
Speaker 1:Yep in Florida, in the panhandle area. What, uh? What last words do you have for the?
Speaker 2:crowd, man, if you can leave an impactful message. Um, I would say, you know, especially with the veterans, man, it's just like they're you're always in the fight. You know what I mean. Like there's another mission, like transitioning out of the military was was very tough for me and I think it's tough for a lot of veterans. You know, uh, losing their purpose and kind of not knowing you put a hundred percent into something you know and then then all of a sudden it's done. You know, like you just have to find another purpose, man. And just like you know what I mean, just continue on cool.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks for coming on the show bro the pleasure chopping it up with you dude. There you guys have it folks. Another banger for you guys. If you like what you saw, make sure you hit that subscribe button again. Thank you guys for watching. Love you keep pushing forward.
Speaker 2:Unhinged line. Hector's legend engraved Living life raw, never been tamed. From the hood to the pen. Truth entails pen. Hector Bravo, unhinged story never ends you, thank you.
