Hector Bravo UNHINGED
Official Hector Bravo Podcast
Hector Bravo UNHINGED
Prison Games: Female CO Reveals CCWF's Dangerous Reality
Valerie, a former correctional officer from Central California Women's Facility (CCWF), shares her journey from personal tragedy to a career in corrections and reveals the shocking deterioration of safety and security in the women's prison system.
• Personal experience with her father's incarceration inspired her career choice
• Started as a substance abuse counselor before becoming a full correctional officer
• Detailed description of CCWF's layout with its four yards and housing units designed like an "X"
• Emphasizes the crucial importance of consistent security checks to maintain safety
• COVID pandemic created chaos with inmates being moved without their property
• Transgender inmates with violent histories were housed among vulnerable female populations
• Administrative decisions undermined officer authority and compromised safety protocols
• Major riot resulted from poor management decisions with officers facing consequences while inmates received "a day of healing"
• The "California Model" eliminated accountability for inmate misconduct
• Offers candid advice for current officers: consider your future carefully, prioritize your wellbeing, and maintain your integrity
Check out Hector Bravo's book "Operational Yard Recall" for more insights into the correctional system.
Hector Bravo. Unhinged Chaos is now in session. Welcome back to our channel. Warriors, we are still growing Another banger for you guys today. You guys have asked for it. You guys wanted to hear more perspective from former female correctional officers. It helps the masses and give you a different perspective. So today we have none other than valerie, a former correctional officer from ccwf chowchilla. So what up, valerie?
Speaker 2:what's going on?
Speaker 1:welcome thank you how was your drive down here it was long any traffic or no you know, actually it wasn't too bad.
Speaker 2:You know, we drove up yesterday, or should I say we drove down and it wasn't bad at all.
Speaker 1:It was nice. Did it rain on your guys' way down or no?
Speaker 2:No, but I mean as soon as we hit San Diego, the temperature was just a big, huge difference.
Speaker 1:Cooler.
Speaker 2:Yes, a lot cooler. I mean I'm from Central Valley and, yeah, I was like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:That's why I love it here. It's freaking expensive, but maybe that's why there's so many homeless people here.
Speaker 2:The weather I mean, we have that too in the Central Valley you know. So I guess it's everywhere. But you know I mean it's worth it Living out here the weather, everybody just seemed all happy.
Speaker 1:Chill. Just like yeah, this is what I would love. Cool, so we'll drive right into it. What prompted you? What made you want to become a correctional officer?
Speaker 2:Well, it goes back to my childhood. I'm from the Central Valley and my parents, you know they divorced and during that divorce they had, you know, my father. He had like a little, I would say, alcohol issue. He was in and out of jail and you know I remember going to jail and visiting him, crying, you know, whenever we would leave, and then eventually he ended up getting into a lot of trouble. Well, in between that time my mom passed away from breast cancer, so my dad, he ended up going to prison and so I had I didn't have anybody, you know, I didn't have my mom, I didn't have my dad. So it was a really tough time for myself and for my siblings and I just remember like thinking, well, I would like to help people you know, just remember like thinking well, I would like to help people.
Speaker 2:Right, you know, of course, naively at that time I didn't understand the whole process. But yeah, I was just thinking I would love to help people how old were you during this time frame? Um, so my mom had passed away when I was 12 well, just before my 12th birthday and then, um, like just right after that, my dad went to prison sorry to hear that, so thank you.
Speaker 1:So a lot of impactful things were happening at a very young age.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, it was. And, um, I mean, you know you, you're there with your thoughts, you don't have. You know your. How do you say your world just comes crashing down, the world that you knew, literally?
Speaker 1:you know what?
Speaker 2:I mean, and then it's just like, well, okay, my dad, the only parent I have is gone. You know what I mean. And then it's just like, well, okay, my dad, the only parent I have is gone. You know what I mean. And I went to go visit him. He was actually at Jamestown.
Speaker 1:Okay, was that up north on Jamestown.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it is up north and they have the, I think, the fire camp there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I want to say he did about a year and then he came out and you know he was ready to go. I mean, luckily he's a welder, professional welder. They gave him his job back, thank God, and so he did his best to raise the four of us. There's four of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I mean he did an awesome job, were you like?
Speaker 2:the oldest, the middle, the youngest? Yeah, I'm the second to youngest. Were you like the oldest, the middle, the youngest? Yeah, I'm the second to youngest. And then you know, I think, from losing my mom and just everything. You know, because when everything happened I think I was suppressed, my feelings, but then, as I went into teenagehood is when I started getting into a lot of trouble.
Speaker 1:You know, but that's normal, though that's common to be. Well, I mean the. The human brain does not stop developing until the age of 26. Yes, so you're, you're gathering, you're learning. True, I wouldn't necessarily say you were suppressing. It's like you're trying to figure out what is going on yeah, that is true, that is very true.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, I I was becoming a little rebellious because my dad, you know I mean he went prison, so he knows how the world is. You know what I?
Speaker 1:mean yeah.
Speaker 2:And he tried to protect me and keep me home and you know, don't let me go anywhere, stuff like that. So I started like rebelling and I started getting into, you know, a lot of trouble. I got expelled from school, you know, things like that. And to the point to where it was, I ended up running away, you know. And then, um, then, finally, you know, I got into my senses.
Speaker 2:I was like this is not the life I want, you know yeah, I'm like 13 years old, thinking like I know it all, and I was like, no, this is not the life I want, so I go back home you ran away?
Speaker 1:at what age?
Speaker 2:yeah, I was 13 years old. That's very young yeah, you know, I mean, I was just, you know, just being rebellious right, the only way I could right right so, um, yeah, so then, um, I, you know I went, I went back home and you know I talked to my dad, you know I apologized and he was, you know, happy to see me home yeah, you know, I bet yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I bet yeah, and we made plans. I was like Dad. I'm sorry, you know we made plans Because my dad, he was always about us. You know what I mean Single dad, you know, working long hours and it was all about us. So he never took care of himself, you know.
Speaker 2:So he'd have like holes in his socks and stuff like that and I'm like, dad, let's go shopping, let's, let's go take care of you, dad. And he's like, okay, cool. And the next day he was gone and I and he he passed away from alcohol poisoning Cause you know he had a really what do you call it? I don't want to call him an alcoholic, but you know he, he had to drink every day, every he poured, you know, alcohol in his cup of coffee and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:I'm very familiar with alcoholism. I myself am an alcoholic.
Speaker 2:But I'm curious to know why you wouldn't call him an alcoholic from your perspective. I've never been in that predicament to where um to say that, um, I've been, like you know, where I've used any type of alcohol, maybe a little bit of alcohol, but any type of substance.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And I just feel like it's kind of like a rude word or something like that.
Speaker 1:But I don't think it is a rude word. Yeah, yeah, but I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I've. I've told that to people and they're like, well, you know that's not a correct word and I'm like I don't know what to say.
Speaker 1:You got to call it something.
Speaker 2:No, but I hear that no you're right, you know, and it's like that's my dad and um. But that day I made a promise to my dad. I said, dad, I will do good and I will. I will do better, you know. And that's what I did. And so, you know, when I went into high school, I was like you know, that's what I want to do. I want to be a correctional officer and help, you know, help people.
Speaker 1:Did you know other correctional officers or anything of the prison system?
Speaker 2:well, I have um. I had some family um. I have an uncle that um. I believe he just recently retired. That was a correctional officer, but I never saw him.
Speaker 1:He was never home but I'm saying like, where did you get the idea for correctional officer with it from visiting in jail?
Speaker 2:yeah, just because I just went back to the part of you know remembering when he was in prison.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And thinking like well, I want to help. You know families, you know in my head, you know as a child. You know, I'm just thinking well, I would like to be a correctional officer and help families reunite, get back together, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That was in my head, naively, having not any idea, I was just thinking that was you know. So at what point in time did you actually apply? I actually, you know I graduated high school and then I went to. You know I got married right after high school. I went to, you know, I got married right after high school and my husband at the time he was not okay with me being a correctional officer Just for the fact of the danger of it. You know, like just you know.
Speaker 1:Watching the movies, watching the movies you know getting raped possibly.
Speaker 2:Getting, you know, stabbed, all this stuff, and I was like you know what You're right, let me think about it. You know what I mean, and out of respect for him, you know, because you know you're he's my husband. So I decided to go to college and I was like I'm going to be a teacher, you know, I want to help. And um, I actually did work at a school as a teacher's aid. And um, I was just like that's not for me.
Speaker 1:So this whole time were you still remaining in the same location, Central California? Yeah, yes, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:and then, right before I graduated, I saw one of the students wearing a lanyard with her California state ID hanging and I was like, hmm, let me just me just ask you know because I still had that.
Speaker 2:You know that itch to be a correctional officer, but you know, and so anyways I asked her and she was um, a ot at for the substance abuse program there at ccwf, and she's like you know, I could give you the information if you want to be a counselor and stuff like that. And I was like, hey, why not? She goes, yeah, they're hiring.
Speaker 1:She was just a student. She wasn't a recruiter. No.
Speaker 2:She was a student.
Speaker 1:She was a student of the class.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she was trying to, you know, move up in her career. And so I said, hey, what do I have to lose? You know, I graduated and I called and they were like, yeah, fax me your resume. And, sure enough, not too long after I became a substance abuse counselor there at CCWF.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Wow, this is good. This is very good. It almost seemed like you were destined to be a CO, exactly Right. Yeah, wow, this is good.
Speaker 2:This is very good, it almost seemed like you were destined to be a CO. Exactly right, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, substance abuse counselor, what do you get? You get a certificate, diploma. What do you get?
Speaker 2:No, Well, they wanted people. They preferred people that had a degree. I had my AS degree.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I believe it was an AS degree or higher. I don't remember too much, but I do want to say it was for sure an AS degree because that's what I had. So but they, I want to say they started everybody off as entry level or I don't remember if it was, depending on your education. Anyhow, I was there for about a year and I was not relating to the inmates because I didn't have a substance abuse problem hold on.
Speaker 1:You were not relating to the inmates solely because you didn't have a substance abuse problem yeah, so it, because it's you know, I was a substance abuse counselor right, but I mean, like, what type of was conflict arising? Was miscommunication arising?
Speaker 2:um, it was so, like. So, for example, they would give us a like, um, kind of like a lesson plan or some objectives and we would have to, you know, do a group and and I would have to talk about, you know, like, let's say, alcoholism and the effects of alcoholism, and you know, of course, when you're not drinking right or any addiction that you have, when you stop that, you start having all these withdrawals right, and I would not have any clue what that even meant. I was like I don't know anything about withdrawals or I don't know the struggles of like, why, I mean, why not just stop drinking? Like, if you want to stop drinking, why not just stop? Like? I didn't understand that concept.
Speaker 1:Do you understand it now?
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, I understand it now.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:But at the time I felt like and you know the inmates, they were very um understanding with me.
Speaker 1:They were. They were like oh, yeah, they were, yeah, they were patient, they were patient. Well, that's a good thing yes, and they had mentors.
Speaker 2:So a lot of the the groups, the inmate mentors would kind of run, and so I would kind of just kind of, you know, guide them or facilitate. You know the groups, but sometimes they wanted me to run it and I would like. I said I was disconnected. Like I said I was disconnected and I just felt like for me I just didn't feel right, continuing in a position that I didn't understand or even you know, I couldn't relate.
Speaker 1:But did you learn anything in your studies that you could pass on to them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, yes, I mean don't get me wrong there was things that I was able to help. And there were things I was able to relate to, like life situations.
Speaker 1:Like you know, my I didn't tell them yes exactly Stuff like that.
Speaker 2:I was able to relate and I was able to talk to him about that, um, and it was cool. It was a very awesome experience, awesome people, um, but, like I said, I just you know, you gotta know when to be like hey, I need to walk away, this is not working out.
Speaker 1:How long was that? How long did you do that for?
Speaker 2:I want to say about a year.
Speaker 1:You gave it a good run.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did Well no, but I stayed there. There was that woman that I was telling you, the student. She was leaving to another position, so her position was going to become available.
Speaker 1:The OT position yeah position. So her position was going to become available.
Speaker 2:So I asked yeah, the ot position. So I asked hey, what can I apply for? That they're like oh yeah, you know, and sure enough, because you had to type fast and all that yeah and I knew how to do that, so I was like yeah, so yeah, they put me in that position, thankfully and um who are you working for or under like a captain, or it was strictly um?
Speaker 2:no, it was for the substance abuse program. Yeah, it was for, because it was a company. I can now I can't even remember the name of the company, but they were contracted, you know, with the state but everything was there at the prison and so, um and then and the funny thing, how I ended up becoming an officer was, there was so we would have to go to the housing units and do like a roll call and do like you know all this stuff and but the officers, you know, they would have to like escort us sometimes or whatever. Well, the S&E, there he was, like look, this is why you need to become a correctional officer, and he showed me his check.
Speaker 1:It's like a lot of money, right, and I'm just like was his check in comparison to your check at a time a big difference, oh huge huge difference.
Speaker 2:I think that's one of the motivating factors that people become oh yeah, ceos you know, because I was just like, and you know, the funny thing is is that when I became the counselor, I wasn't aware that I was gonna be inside the actual prison with the inmates walking amongst them. I just had this idea that they were going to bring them to, you know, to this building, you know, and so. But you know, after working with them and you know the inmates, they were not really that violent at that time either, so it wasn't a big issue like where, as far as I was like, well, it's actually kind of safe here, you know, in a sense how long were you in that ot position for?
Speaker 1:um, I want to say about like eight months, about there so so approximately you had two years of experience working as a free staff.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Prior to become a correction officer. Yes, so good. I'll like piggyback off of that.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:You were not necessarily ordering inmates to do anything in your previous two positions, were you?
Speaker 2:A little bit yes. Were you a little bit yes? Um, because they had to at that time. You know they were. They were mandate.
Speaker 2:The inmates were mandated to go into the substance abuse program but a lot of it was more like voluntary, because of you know, like, as a condition to parole stuff like that, and so they had to meet certain criteria, they had to behave a certain way. You know like they couldn't. You know like, like, for example, if they wanted to take a day, you know we would go over there and we'd talk to them and and then let them know, hey, if you don't show up, you know whatever, then this is, we're going to write you up.
Speaker 2:Stuff like that OK but no, we're not in the capacity as an officer, as a CO?
Speaker 1:yes, so I want you to explain to me about the type of academy that you attended, because you mentioned it was something like college courses.
Speaker 2:Yes, so you know, working there as a free staff, I got to know, you know, some of the Bigwigs yeah free staff.
Speaker 2:I got to know, you know, some of the big wigs, yeah, and so particular there was. Uh, at that time there was a IST um sergeant and he had mentioned to me, hey, you know, we're going to be having this pilot program. You know, just give you a heads up and they're looking in particular for those who have graduated from college and stuff like that. And I was like, oh cool, he's like, yeah, you should apply. So, you know, I applied and eventually I got, you know, selected and everything was about on your own time. There was, you know, they didn't pay us, that's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we, and you know I lived about I want to say about 45 minutes, 30 to 45 minutes, depending on traffic away from the college. Everything was going to happen at the college, at the city president fresno city college, that's wild yeah and um, and so it was a big commitment because I had an eight to five job and then so class started at six, you know so I had pm.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's a long day and then it ended at 10, you know, five days a week, and so, you know, and at the time, um, you know, I was like well, I think this is my, my way in, you know yeah and um, you know, I talked to my, my, um, my husband at the time, and he was, he was cool with it.
Speaker 2:You know, he was like because they said, more than likely because they need females at the CCWF that I would end up there. So I was like, cool, you know done. So, yeah, I did, 13 weeks in and I had failed my psyche Val.
Speaker 1:So you did 13 weeks of Monday through Friday 6 pm to 10 pm after working your regular day. Yes, Were you exhausted?
Speaker 2:Yes, I was. I'm not going to say no, because I was.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because you know, especially when we had you know PT and at that time I was, you know, a gym junkie, if you will.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:I was, you know, always exercising running. That was my thing running. So I was, you know, pretty fit, but still it gets exhausting.
Speaker 1:Oh, hell yeah.
Speaker 2:Working, driving over there, you know, and then driving failed that that psyche valve and um come to find out that that psychologist had a prejudice against females going into the department. I don't know if it was necessarily females being officers or exactly what.
Speaker 1:Was he a male psychologist?
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was a male psychologist Was he old and white. I was just a wild guess you are right, and um and yeah, so, sure enough, I had to, you know, appeal it. And then I hire my own psychologist and I got re-evaluated and that was you know. That was when they told me hey, you know.
Speaker 2:By the way, you know, this is what's going on yeah so, uh, just go ahead and go to do a couple tests, you know, because I, you know, over a year you have to retest, like after a year, you know yeah so I had to retest and I passed everything and sure enough, they're like where do you want to go? What academy you want to go to? You know all this stuff and I was like what academy? Because at that time there was stockton and then there was Galt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, did you get your pick? Yeah, what did you pick?
Speaker 2:I picked Galt.
Speaker 1:Why.
Speaker 2:Because I was not going to sleep in the, because they told me they're like hey, just so you know. Because I didn't even understand. I was like what is Stockton? And they're like well, you'll be living in the cells like inmates. And I was like, oh no, yeah, I went to stockton but I was not given a choice. Oh no way, yeah, yeah. Um, I felt like a queen. I was like, really, I gotta pick, I gotta, yeah, pick a prison. Because you know, at that time they didn't give you choices.
Speaker 1:They were like hey, pelican bay, like yes or no, you know, and that was it so you requested ccwf and you got it requested and then you went to galt and I went to galt, ccwf and you got it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I requested CCWF and then you went to GALT and I went to GALT.
Speaker 1:And how long were you in GALT for?
Speaker 2:At 16 weeks.
Speaker 1:That's confusing to me as why you would have to do 13 weeks prior to doing a 16-week academy.
Speaker 2:Well, they didn't recognize. And, honestly, this is just me thinking that, Because when I went to Galt, right, it was totally different. Curriculum, Curriculum. Yes, you know it was similar but it was different, you know. And also the at the college it was a lot of teachers, professors, that were teaching us, you know, like people that were in the law enforcement field.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but not too many of them. That were from corrections. We did have a couple.
Speaker 1:Knuckle draggers. Well, they're usually like sheriffs or like police.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:Doing overtime out there, you know a little side money.
Speaker 2:And don't get me wrong, I mean very knowledgeable.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:But even at the academy the academy it's not anything that they said. I mean, I'm sorry, but you just throw it out the window as soon as you start, because you know, it's just a whole different story when you go you began, what year galt? In um april of 07 april of 07.
Speaker 1:Um, the sergeants that you remember, do you remember if they had a lot of time in, mixed a little bit of time in and were they trying to act like drill sergeants?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And you know what's crazy? I actually have a little PTSD from one of the sergeants because of my when I was learning how to shoot the mini or just you know, weapon, or what was it? The revolver?
Speaker 2:So the mini and the revolver at that time and the instructor man he had it out for me, he was, I mean, he was calling me by my first name and it was just weird Like and and honestly it's kind of. You know, if you think about it was a good thing because it made me stronger yeah gave me pressure, put me under pressure, you know stuff like that.
Speaker 1:But was that your first introduction to firearms? Yeah well, that's, that's, that's awesome. Yeah, what? What advice do you have for female listeners that are brand new and considering a job in corrections and are kind of maybe fearing the firearm portion?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I highly recommend that you go to your nearest range for sure and get familiar with weapons. For me it wasn't necessarily the the weapon itself, I think it was just more of the qualifying, you know, like all the pressure that they put you it is true.
Speaker 1:Even for a man, that's just stressful as hell.
Speaker 2:Even for a fucking sir operator, that's just stressful oh yeah, you know, and and then on top of that I was not even familiar with the gun I mean. So here I got all this pressure, you know, and I do recommend, but honestly, I recommend anybody that's great advice.
Speaker 1:that's great advice. That's great advice, yeah.
Speaker 2:You have to go and go to the nurse range and practice. It's just and honestly. My husband and I, we still go.
Speaker 1:Absolutely A hundred percent. It's a perishable skill, so you got to stay on top of it.
Speaker 2:Yes, so, yeah, you know. So after my academy, I mean I had a good time.
Speaker 1:No, because I want to get to know more about you and how your experience was. How was the chemical agents portion for you?
Speaker 2:Oh man, yeah, that one killed me. So that one, you know.
Speaker 1:What was worse for you? The pepper spray and the eyeballs, or the gas?
Speaker 2:No, that wasn't bad at all in comparison to the CS, because you know they put us all in like a shed and they're like all right, you know, pretty much like lock arms. And they're like okay, like I better not hear any crying, like whatever. And yeah, boom, they blasted it. And they're like okay, you have to last 30 seconds.
Speaker 1:How would you describe the effects of CS gas?
Speaker 2:I honestly, I felt like I was going to die. I felt like I was going to die. I mean, I know that sounds like dramatic.
Speaker 1:No, that's spot on, that's spot on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because, like, I couldn't breathe, I couldn't see. You know what I mean? I couldn't hear because I was just all. Well, it induces panic. That's one of the.
Speaker 1:That's exactly what happened, you know. But I will say I didn't throw up, you did it. No, I didn't throw up. What about like snot running down?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, that was just yeah that was just non-stop. It was crazy, but and I felt, I felt like I got punched in the stomach, like you know I just felt like the breath was just taking, you know. But yeah, no, there was people throwing up and yeah, it was a horrible experience.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. So then you get your badge. What was that moment like, knowing all the hard work you put in, knowing you visited your father in jail. What feelings and emotions were you getting when you um graduation? You know?
Speaker 2:I, you know my siblings were there and you know my closest family was there, and it was a an emotional feeling. It's just thinking about it right now makes me emotional, because I was like dad, I did it.
Speaker 2:You know, and so, and I wish he would have been able to be there he was sympathy you're right, but I was trying not to cry, of course, um, but yeah, it was an emotional but very proud moment for me. You know that I did it and so, and after that, I was like, okay, now let's, because you know you graduate on friday now it's game time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's game time, you know you graduate on friday.
Speaker 2:Now it's game time. Yeah, it's game time, you know, you graduate on friday and then now monday business you already had your.
Speaker 1:What did you sport? The jumpsuit? Or um two-piece like because they had the jumpsuit was very popular back in the day yeah, you're right, I did have my jumpsuit um you had a brand new duty belt. You're brand new.
Speaker 2:You're ready to yes, because I had. So they made us graduate in class A's, right? So I was, I think, my first day I wore my class A's. They're like, hey, wear your class A's. And then we had orientation. So that was pretty cool because, you know, the union came in and they were like, hey, this is what's up, you know, this is what you got to do, and they showed us everything. You know, where the most important place is still is, I'm sure which is personnel assignments. Right, Because that's what? Well for us, that's where we put in our vacation.
Speaker 2:That's where we put in our holiday, because that's really all that matters, right.
Speaker 1:And, of course, the money. So what, in hindsight, looking back with all your experience that you did and how the department had changed over the years, what would you say the focus of training cadets was like safety and security? Was it more focused on rehabilitation of inmates?
Speaker 2:no, you mean when I was going, when you went initially went through. Yeah, no, um the focus is all about safety and security, all about, you know, hey, and this is they. They drilled this into my head and to all of our head. Hey, just work as though you're getting. You're on camera, you know facts and and you know be professional.
Speaker 2:Professionalism was another thing. Integrity, you know um being a good relief. They would feel that they're like, hey, you sign up for overtime. You know you better take it like and and just know you're not going home. You know when you go to work you're not going to go home, say bye to the holidays and all that absolutely break it down a little bit further when they mean by like hey, work like if you're on camera yeah.
Speaker 2:So, um, basically they said, hey, you know you and it happens, you know people that that say that right now, if you're at a prison and there are no cameras there. So you think you know because?
Speaker 1:no, because the inmates are fucking recording you from their cell.
Speaker 2:They're exactly, but at that time yeah you had a lot of you know like isu planting cameras because there's so much craziness going on in the prisons that they. You don't know if you're being watched right and so yeah, and as far as so, you had to act as though you're working on camera.
Speaker 1:Basically, don't beat the shit out of anyone, don't fucking bat, don't run your mouth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, and just be professional, do your job you know, be as though you just that's it. Follow the rules, follow the laws, follow policy, you know, do what you're supposed to do. Do the right thing.
Speaker 1:It almost seems like a simple Common sense, you know.
Speaker 2:But we're surprised. Yeah, it's common sense, right, you know going to work, and then you learn that that's not how it's operated.
Speaker 1:So you get there. What are some of your first assignments? What are some things that you see now. Do you recognize any former inmates from being?
Speaker 2:OT.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a few of them that recognize me. Hey guys, consider becoming a patron, where you will get first exclusive dibs on the video before it airs to the public and you'll get to ask the guest special questions that you have in mind. So that's also another way to support the channel. Thank you, guys, appreciate all of you. Keep pushing forward.
Speaker 2:Make sure you hit that link in the description below, not right off the bat, you know like over you know some time, because you know we had different yards in the yard that I was working on. You know that I didn't really. Can you break down the layout for us, like because I have no idea what ccwf looks like? Yeah, it's um, just think of it as a big like I guess like a circle, right?
Speaker 1:so then?
Speaker 2:a circle, yeah, like here, here's this and then, and it's divided, you know know, into four yards, right?
Speaker 1:So like four slices of the pie.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, like I know it's kind of hard to say so, we have four different yards. Right, we have a yard which is our reception. So, right, when you walk in, you have one facility which is a yard. Then you keep walking. Then you have another yard, which is Bravo. Then you continue, then Charlie, and then Delta, and then you go on the other side. Then you have like the central services, like the main yard. That's where the gym is at, that's where you know control the main yard yeah, the main yard is where.
Speaker 1:That's where you have your library do each yard have its own recreational yard?
Speaker 2:they have a yard but it's not like the main yard and and so like. On every yard has like a little. I don't even know if it's grass. Before I left it was like all dried out, but it's like a big old you know. Uh, lawn area, you know humongous, and um, they did have. I think they had a volleyball court or they were allowing it. They had a little basketball court.
Speaker 1:Do all inmates from every yard go to one recreational yard?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, no way. No, no, no, no Okay.
Speaker 2:No, every yard has their own yard and they go out to that yard.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:However, I just heard recently they are allowing and I think it's. I don't know if it's mixed, if they're mixing it, but when I first started it was mixed. Reception didn't go out to the main yard.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But Bravo Charlie doubts it. They all, all these inmates, went to this main yard and it was wild, it was really wild.
Speaker 1:Oh well, back then was the overcrowding problem.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because at all the other prisons we had bunk beds on the day room, we had gyms that were full was your prison going through the same thing.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it was overcrowded to the max what was that like?
Speaker 2:um, it was. It was like it was mixed, you know, so you had it. It was crazy because you know, I mean you have it like at the men's also, where you have your bullies, if you will, at the women's. It's like more like your bullies or shot callers or whatever you want to call it, and you know they're more about like, hey, clean your room, they give all the inmates chores. You know, like hey, and you'll see when you go into their cell they have like chores that all the inmates have to do. And so the inmates that don't want to keep up with that or don't want to be bossed around or bullied or whatever, they will go to the day room. Or they wanted to bunk in the day room because they were afraid or they didn't want to deal with that, or they would go to the gym. That was the popular place, like the safe place.
Speaker 1:These shot caller type women bullies did they have like a physical description? Did they all kind of look the same or they varied?
Speaker 2:No, they varied.
Speaker 1:I'm imagining like short haircut, kind of stuck stuffy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, most of them yes, but no, not necessarily. No, not necessarily.
Speaker 1:It didn't make, it didn't.
Speaker 2:No, it didn't matter, him mad, it didn't no whoever was the alpha female dominated yeah and a lot of it had to do with, like you know. Like, let's say, you know one of the rooms would have, um, you know, all of their people in there. So then the outsiders that were living in there, of course they would, they would get bullied, you know okay, I asked you to give us a description of like all the yards, which you did.
Speaker 1:Now, what does a unit look like?
Speaker 2:So the unit looks like, it's like a big X. So you have, you know, like this, you know. So, all down, each is a wing and so like it's when you go down a hallway right, just like this you have one side of dorms and their rooms. They look like the best way I could describe it is like hotel rooms.
Speaker 1:They have Hotel rooms and not cell rooms.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're dorms. Yeah, they have a door you go in and they have like two sinks and then they have Maybe it looks like college dorm or something yeah Kind of like that yeah.
Speaker 1:And then they have their own shower, and then they have their own toilet. How many females per room?
Speaker 2:At that time it was eight inmates. Should I call?
Speaker 1:it? Do you guys call it a room, a cell? What do you guys call it?
Speaker 2:We would normally call them rooms, rooms like, go to room, whatever, no, way. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's pretty much.
Speaker 1:And the door. What does the door look like? Is it like a prison door?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean it's just a heavy duty door and then with a big old window and they have their own key. No, no, no, no, you guys have a, what a folder. Adams key, um, no, so that's like a little tiny key, and then you could we call it key the wing and there's like a, um, like a thing, you know, uh, what do you call it? So you could put the key I can't even think right now and then it just opens up all the rooms.
Speaker 2:All of them, all the doors, yes, and then they only have like 30 seconds and then it'll lock up.
Speaker 1:Cool. So eight females per room. And you were saying that. If what? Were you saying that if one girl has her whole crew there, yes. There's an outsider.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you have an outsider in the room, of course they're going to be, you know, bullied, or they'll you know bully them until they get, oh hell no. Say, hey, like the inmates will legit be like, hey, this one got to go, you need a mover. And it's like what, wait, how about this? How about I freaking move all of you guys and keep her in there? How, how about I freaking move all of you guys and keep her in there.
Speaker 1:How about that? So how many correctional officers? What is the ratio? Where are they located?
Speaker 2:So the officers are right in the center.
Speaker 1:Of the X.
Speaker 2:Of the X. Yes, and it's like a. They would call it a fishbowl, because that's kind of what it looks like, and it's just glass all around.
Speaker 1:Elevated or not elevated?
Speaker 2:No, it's not elevated, no. And then there's a control panel where we could also control, but they didn't want us to, so we could. From that control panel, we could open the doors also are you in a locked?
Speaker 1:are you a lock in a lock secured?
Speaker 2:environment.
Speaker 1:It's locked why is that? I'm having a hard time understanding? Because, like on a level four gp, you're on a podium yeah nothing around you with inmates, but this seems a little bit more secure for the cops it is, it is and it's actually nice and that's what I do like about it.
Speaker 2:And then I, when I seen, when I was doing my cossets, I did see that. Yeah, it was podiums or it was like that in atzig, but the inmates in there are not freely walking. So correct, um, but there is one building that iss or it was like that in atzig but the inmates in there are not freely walking. So correct um, but there is one building that is like that.
Speaker 1:It's like, I believe it's a 180 design and they have a podium also so this perfect layout that you just gave of us, is this a type of unit where recently, the, the girls, went off all crazy and did the ultimate riot?
Speaker 2:yeah, like that's the setup it was yeah, yep well that's so see if, if you're so, a building can hold about 256 inmates oh my god, yes, yeah and and recently, like right before I left, they had um, uh, I want to say they had um what do you call it where they didn't allow like they. So, basically, some bunks were like as though they didn't exist, so inmates couldn't live in there. So you know, like I think they would like do, like six inmates were allowed to live in there or whatever, just because they want to minimize the amount of inmates living in a room. You know so, but when I first started it wasn't like that. So if we had a broken, we would get broken windows, you know, because they would fight and it would be like shoot. How are we going to move these inmates out?
Speaker 1:Are those windows, the thick windows? Yeah, so they would just crack them right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they would crack them or completely break they would. Yeah, they weren't like I mean.
Speaker 1:They weren't like a regular house window.
Speaker 2:No. Okay, okay, no, no, no no, yeah, they were pretty thick, but yeah, they were Now you're a cop, you're wearing your uniform, you're doing, doing okay. So you mentioned the cops in the little control area is some of your duties that you got to walk around and look around, yeah, so, um, you would definitely have to do your security checks okay that's like very important, you know, and I would do like.
Speaker 2:I would do sometimes more like, depending on the building that I worked in like. If you worked in like where that riot popped off, those are the kind of buildings that you never want to miss your security A hundred percent.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Yeah, can you advise newer correctional officers the importance of conducting security checks?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's one of your main jobs, you know it's. I mean no matter where you work at, you know whether you're working on the yard, whether you're working in a building or wherever. It's very utmost important thing, because that's when things are going on. And me personally, what I would do is I would do a security check and then I would do another one Smart, you know what I mean and I would hold my keys. But this is when I first started.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you would hold your keys. I would hold my keys, yeah, and.
Speaker 2:I was like the inmates gave me a little nickname. They would call me, oh Miss I'm-a-get-cha.
Speaker 1:Miss I'm-a-get-cha.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what they would call me because I'm like oh no, you ain't not on my watch, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because that's when they're doing the drugs, that's when they're beating somebody up or that's when they're. You know a lot of the females would you know they'd have sexual relationships and and yeah, and so if they knew that you know and, and they them too, they would like to um board up yeah, but they would you know, because it was bunks, so they would put their blankets and cover up yeah and um, so you can't see them.
Speaker 2:So you would have to go over there and, hey, take your your blankets down. Take that down at tent up. That's what they would call it. They would tent up, okay yeah and so, but that's that's what they would call it. They would tent up Okay, yeah and so, but that's how you eliminate If the inmates know that you're doing your security checks consistently.
Speaker 1:On point you're going to eliminate and deter a whole lot of stuff, 100%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is being proactive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're being proactive, and sometimes you I mean I'm not saying that there's not going to be a time where you're the inmates are going to fight, you know not. But see, and this is what I'm so like, one time, because I, you know, I was working on the yard and after we do a release, you know I would go to every building and I would help the officer release for Chow, and then I would go hey, let me do a security check. You know you do all this other stuff and I'll help you with a security check, just to make sure there is nothing going on or make sure all the doors are locked and secure, Because what the inmates would like to do is they would like to put their ID or something right there.
Speaker 2:So that way the door could stay unlocked, and so I would go check the doors. Yeah, and sure enough, you know, and this is why you have to be consistent. But, um, sure enough, there's two inmates fighting, you know, because they're thinking right, oh, this is, this is a good time, nobody's here, nobody's gonna catch it, and sure enough, yeah, they're fighting, and that's when they do it During those mass releases. That's when things happen.
Speaker 1:I mean, you got to think like a criminal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, you know, and I mean you got to kind of appreciate it that they're not doing it in front of you.
Speaker 1:But at the same time, our job is to maintain safety and security. That's our main job. I don't know why, but I have a strong hunch that this, like newer generation right is, is not doing the little things like checking the doors, and I can't really blame them for the current circumstance and situation and climate that they're in you know, before I left, um, I was noticing and and I'm going to be honest, I did it too.
Speaker 2:I would get to my point where I mean get into my days where I would have like a lazy day.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You know, but not a constant, like you know if I'm tired or whatever you know. But before I left, you know I was injured, so you know I was like trying to do as minimal as possible. Right right you know I was like trying to do as minimal as possible but you were not going to ever catch me not doing you know, making sure that you know do my safety and security checks, or make sure that you know and not because you love inmates, because you love your paycheck and you love your career.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you want to secure that shit and, yes, that, and not only that, but everybody relies on you to maintain that safety. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Even the supervisors appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's just our job and I think I feel like people just forget that that's our main job. You know what I mean? And it's like there's this culture of laziness and it's got to the point to where I don't know if you ever heard about this where they talk about um, where officers are are now um, like refusing to do holdovers correct so they call it motor, and so, in other words, they call mandatory.
Speaker 2:Um, I forgot what it's like holdover. It's basically if the sergeant calls you and says hey, I'm holding you over, and then you say a motor, so you're refusing your holdover, your mandatory overtime, basically. And it's like, okay, well, bring a doctor's note. That's what the sergeant tells them, and it's like wait what is motor?
Speaker 1:a pay code.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's like mandatory overtime refusal or something like that doctor's order or something like that so it's like wow, they're just wow. That's pretty bold that is bold and it's like think about it when we first started like can you imagine saying now I refuse to work over or I refuse to to be held, like the culture that we had at that time when we first started? Right that that's like unheard of. You know what I mean. Because why Like?
Speaker 1:that's embarrassing. I will say this I never refused to order over. I did, however, call in sick the following day after I was held over.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I mean yeah, but that's the right thing to do.
Speaker 1:Just take the hit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you take your hit or like let's say, you know whatever something going on or whatever. I would wait till everything's said and done After chow. Hey, I'm going home sick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's an option.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but to flat out refuse.
Speaker 1:But just to flat out is wild. And this didn't just start recently, it's been since 2020-ish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, and then like you, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:So the way you view things now is do you believe it was a fuck man? Do you believe it was a perfect storm? A new generation of cops, a new agenda with the department, a new breed of inmates. Do you believe like the change?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I mean. Well, I I mean I don't know if you're okay to talk about the california model right now oh 100 but see, like when we first started you know, when I first started we had control of the inmates.
Speaker 2:you know we had and I'm not saying a hundred percent, but the inmates respected the law. You know they respected you. Hey, you did your job, you did what was supposed to be done. They had to trust that. They knew that you were going to do your job and for the most part they listened. You know what I mean yeah.
Speaker 2:There was fights, there was drinking, there was this and that drugs, whatever. But then you fast forward to like, like the pandemic, and I would like to talk about that too but, that's going off track. But then you, you know, we locked all the inmates down, right, we locked them down um what was a pandemic at ccwf like? I was out of control were the women complaining oh yeah, but not like you would think. You know, what they worried about more than anything was their property.
Speaker 1:Why, and?
Speaker 2:that was some bull crap. So what, our wonderful administration there at CCWF, what they decided to do and maybe it wasn't even them, I'm not sure where it came from, but their great idea was to hey, let's go ahead, these inmates have COVID. They have the COVID, so let's go ahead and take them all out. They have the COVID, so let's go ahead and take them all out and put them in the gym where they're not even, you know, isolated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was the administration. Same shit happened at Donovan.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So now and then you got them doing it in the middle of the night, where you have, like you know, a skeleton crew, as it is is and you're freaking, uprooting all these inmates at, you know one in the morning and saying, hey, don't even worry about it, leave your property there. You're going to come back because we're just quarantining you. We're going to put you in the gym, don't worry, you're going to come back. And you know what ends up happening.
Speaker 2:They don't send them back to their rooms correct so now you have all this property that's, and and you know what the crazy thing is too they end up putting other inmates in their rooms and those rooms with the other inmates property still in those rooms oh my god, can you imagine what kind of mess, that is yeah, I just want to um let the administration know you know that was was horrible, horrible plan.
Speaker 1:Well, no planning at all.
Speaker 2:No planning at all.
Speaker 1:But the position that they put the correctional officers in was freaking disastrous.
Speaker 2:It was very disastrous.
Speaker 1:Pulling inmates, making us move, inmates in the middle of the night leaving their property, putting other inmates in there with other people's property was a freaking disaster, a nightmare and incompetence. Sorry, I just had to get off my chest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, you're absolutely right, that's exactly what it was. You know there was no. And then you know, you got to remember. You know, here we have nobody knows what's going on with this virus. You know so everybody's freaking out. You know so you're at home, Like there are. Even there's rumors that they were saying hey, you know, you guys might not even go home, you might have to quarantine at the prison. And I was like what you know, and I mean my. My husband works there.
Speaker 2:You know, what I mean, like imagine both of us having to Dang.
Speaker 1:that's not good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know. So now we have this anxiety going on. We have kids at home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is priority?
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, you know, and so I was just like so you have that going on, Then you have, then the vaccine comes about. You know they're like then our weak I'm sorry but I'm going to say this our weak union reps were coming around saying oh you, you know you have to get the vaccine because you know it's mandatory and this, and that you might get fired. And you know, and I'm I'm about research, I'm like you ain't gonna just tell me oh here, take this freaking poison, yeah, and then shut up about it correct no, what you're not.
Speaker 2:And then, then you see, you know all these dumb.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you have a brain. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:Then you have these dumb freaking mayors saying oh well, I'll give you some money. You know you could go buy yourself a burger and fries if you take this stupid vaccine and it's like wait, what's really going on.
Speaker 1:So I did my research and I was like, absolutely not, I'm not taking that and I was willing to get fired. So we knew at that time. So you have all this craziness going on and then now running the risk of getting fired because I was not going to take poison, inject poison into my body. You know, a lot of people always hit me up like, hey, Hector, should I be a correctional officer? I hear about the stories you tell and it's like these are the untold stories of the unnecessary stress and anxiety.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I mean we're rolling up to the park, to the prison, and they're like are you vaccinated?
Speaker 1:And I'm like none of your business.
Speaker 2:I'm not answering that damn question.
Speaker 1:I remember that they had checkpoints in the parking lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then they're checking my temperature, like, and then you have to go get tested. You don't even have freaking retarded symptoms and then you have to wear a mask, and that was another thing. I was like I'm not wearing my mask, like yeah, I put it right here, but I mean, you know, I mean if a sergeant or lieutenant came out of respect, I put it up because, I'm not disrespectful, but I'm like, and I'm not gonna enforce these inmates to wear a mask either right you know, and it was just, it was a really wild time and at that time, actually, on top of all of that, I was going through some stuff because we had a, um, the building that I was working in, they had a.
Speaker 2:It was a crazy building because we had it was an honor dorm describe an honor dorm so honor dorm is basically where inmates have to be right up free for two years okay so I mean, you think about it. So our prison is a level four prison. That's why, and but on paper it's a level two okay right, we have the death row there. We have, I I mean LWAPs there.
Speaker 1:Now With the changes.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, but at that time death row was still active. We still had death row.
Speaker 1:Hold on, hold on, hold on. You had, because death, holy shit. So I'm aware of death row San Quentin, yeah, but there was female death row inmates. Yeah, and there was a death row at ccwf. Yes, I didn't know about this oh, yeah, yeah, we have where were they housed?
Speaker 2:they were housed in ad seg, and ad seg is well, you know what I'd say. But so they had like the bottom tier all set up where they had like, um, a treadmill, um, they had their own refrigerator. I believe I might be wrong on that, but I want to say they did. But they had all these things for the death row that they, you know. They had their own washer and dryer, and every single building, by the way, has washers and dryers.
Speaker 1:Would they exit their cells without restraints?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yes, but it was secured. It was like gated, would they? Be able to intermingle with other inmates no, okay, so it was pretty much ran like a lock-up unit yes, yeah yeah but? But they were able to come out to like what they would consider their day room and they would, you know, talk to each other. They were able to mingle with each other wherever?
Speaker 1:were there ever any incidents there, or not?
Speaker 2:really yeah they had fights here and there, but I mean you had the death row in me, was I mean?
Speaker 1:what is he? What does a female get condemned to death for same type of crime as amanda's?
Speaker 2:oh yeah, I mean, you know. What's crazy, though, is that some of those inmates that were or that are on death row, well, it's not even activated anymore. It's like they're they're roaming. You know they're roaming throughout the prison now?
Speaker 1:right, probably hanging on the level one right now as we speak. Yeah, probably at a fucking fire.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, yeah see, because when I was working in that building, that's when they had deactivated, they were saying hey, yeah we're we're release some of the and they were putting them in the honor dorm.
Speaker 1:Hold on. Yes, you're giving me chest pains. So you mean to tell me inmates from the condemned row went over to the honor dorm? Let me guess Only because they didn't have write-ups.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, because they met their criteria. You know what I mean. So they were able to go into and and honestly, I mean it's like you know you get to a point where nothing surprises you anymore I'm not saying right that, maybe I'm not maybe saying that maybe condemned females cannot be honorable at some point in time.
Speaker 1:But how about a little bit of like a step down? Process or a little bit of observation, but they just fucking went for it. Huh yeah.
Speaker 2:They said oh yeah, there you go what part takes on an honor dorm?
Speaker 1:do they get more privileges in a regular unit?
Speaker 2:yes, they get a lot more freedom, oh my god yeah oh yeah, I mean, but you know some people ran it differently. You know like I, I like to you say that I like to control my environment.
Speaker 2:You know, I like things to be, you know, organized, I like things to be safe, I like things to be, you know, controlled, basically. And so when I went in there, it was actually the officer before me. She ran a pretty tight ship, so she was good, and then, but then when I went in there, I was pretty much the same thing. I was running a tight ship, so she was good, and then, um, but then when I went in there, I was pretty much the same thing. I was running a tight ship, and of course, the inmates were okay with it because they're already used to it, you know. But then it got to the point to where, like, um, well, I was starting to find out things that they were doing you, and I was trying to hold them accountable for it. And then that's when things started getting a little crazy. So so when I was in this particular building, they had a dog program in there.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so that dog program, well, at the time I didn't know I was all for it, I was like cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's. It's helping the public, because what they would do is they would train these dogs and they would go out to help people with, like you know, disabilities, ptsd military yeah, ptsd stuff like that right, which is I'm all for it you know, but at the same time they're still inmates, and you know what I mean. Like people would go and pet the dogs, which is all good and I, you know, I would pet them here and there, but I wasn't getting on the ground like petting them and playing with these dogs.
Speaker 1:The COs were.
Speaker 2:Yeah, some would. Anyways, that's a whole other story.
Speaker 1:You just reminded me of something. I think you just reminded me of something that happened Like a new CO was running to an alarm at dawn event and he stopped to pet the dog and then he continued running what the yeah, something like that, so it just kind of reminded me uh, yeah, and we looked at the camera. Sure as shit, he did that, um, but yeah, yeah, go ahead. Sorry about that. No, I mean, this is where we're at these days, but go ahead that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:see stuff like that. No, but what was going on was this program was out of control, which I noticed during the pandemic. I didn't notice how out of control it was because, you know, in front of us the inmates were like all like following rules and doing what they're supposed to do, you know all this other stuff. But then, of course, the pandemic came down and then everything slowed down, right, everything was, and I took it serious because I didn't know what was going on.
Speaker 2:Like I didn't want to get caught. I got COVID and I was sick. I thought I was going to die, you know what I mean. So, and people were dying from COVID, you know. So anyway, um, but yeah, I I discovered that the inmates were pretty much running that program, to the point to where they were making moves. They were saying who was going to go into that program, who was going to get moved? All this stuff, they were running it.
Speaker 1:Did you guys have like a MACREC program as well? Yeah, we have IAC or whatever, and this was not the IAC making those moves. This was like the inmates, iec making those moves? No, this was like the inmates.
Speaker 2:Well, I discovered that the I'm going to call her a dog lady, because I can't say her real name.
Speaker 1:I don't want to say her real name yeah, dog lady.
Speaker 2:So I found out the dog lady was doing whatever these inmates wanted Of course she was.
Speaker 2:But yeah, she was doing whatever they wanted. So I brought that to the attention of you while I went to my do my chain of command. And so I went to the sergeant. I said, hey, check this out, this is what's going on. It's not cool, this is not okay, you know. And then he was like, oh yeah, you know? No, you don't have to do anything. She tells you to do which we're making bed moves, because these inmates were trying to tell us. Tell me where inmates were gonna. I was like I don't think so. So they would go to her and she'd be like, oh, I want these inmates moved.
Speaker 1:I'm like let me back, let's fast. Let's rewind back to 2007, 2008, 2009. If an inmate attempted to try to get you to, for you to make a bad move, how would that situation play out?
Speaker 2:well, first of all that wouldn't even happen, correct? But if it did happen, that inmate would get moved. Okay, you know what I mean that inmate's like hey, check it out, you ain't running nothing.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:And now you're going to get moved.
Speaker 1:And now we fast forward to this part of time post-pandemic. And now these, they're just straight up running amok.
Speaker 2:Ballsy, yeah, they're running amok, but why? I mean? Somebody gave them that power, that entitlement. You know, what I mean. And here I come and I'm like no, I mean, you're an inmate, I need to put you back in your place, because that's not how things work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's not because you're mean or because you hate inmates. It's because, like you stated earlier, you have to ensure a safe environment for everyone.
Speaker 2:Ensure a safe environment for everyone. Yeah, and, and you know I was learning, I discovered that you know they were. If they didn't like an inmate, they were making things really bad for that inmate.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean how do women get inmates get down? Uh like in the male institution, they'll just literally stab you yeah to death sometimes. But how do females exert their?
Speaker 2:see these females are and they're just very manipulative and the saying goes that if they're talking they're lying. You know that's what the saying goes, because you don't know if they're trying to manipulate and they they're all smile. You know what I mean. Like they, they look all presentable and everything and and their rule following and all that good stuff, but they have an agenda. You know what I mean and and it's hard to understand that if you don't see it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:But I was there, I was working to get into the honor dorm you had to have years in the department you know you had to have seniority.
Speaker 2:How, yeah, how unless it was a management spot, you were not going to work in there oh, because of the seniority wise yeah seniority wise so so one of the jobs became bid, so I was able to bid into it wow, so go back to ccwf.
Speaker 1:Um, was that one of the more pristine positions that the senior senior cops wanted to work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, was an honor dorm? Yeah, absolutely, because you know you're not dealing with the fighting and the drama. Like you know, maybe contra Well, they had contraband, but it was not.
Speaker 1:How is it now the honor dorm? Is it off the hook?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I heard that. Yeah, it's pretty much off the hook. Yeah, I mean I heard that, yeah, it's pretty much off the hook.
Speaker 1:Not very honorable.
Speaker 2:What they ended up doing is they ended up messing up like they always do. They won't always want to. They're like hey, what can I mess up? You know, administration always thinks like how can I make this bad you? Know, so let's do it, you know. And so what they ended up doing was they put the DDs in there, and so, yeah, oh my God dude, yes, all bad, and and actually I treated them like all the other inmates. I'm like check it out. Well, you know.
Speaker 1:Real quick. You know, I have a YouTube channel called that Prison Garden. I often call people booger eaters. Right, this is kind of who I refer to as a booger eater, yes, and then you know they're dd developmentally disabled, you know, and I shouldn't be calling them booger eaters, but these individuals you have to prompt. You have to prompt them. Hey, uh, take a shower, brush your teeth. Don't do that, stop, don't light your cell on fire. Yeah, yeah, exactly, don't kill me. Yeah, right, and you, they put these types of people in the honor dorm. Yes, freaking way, man yep.
Speaker 2:So you know, that was an issue in itself because you know, here you got, and then you got these inmates who don't follow rules, who are just doing their own program, but I started treating them like you know the rest of them and and we had an officer designated, like, specifically to work with these dds because, because of the documentation, you have to do with them. Yes, and I hate paperwork. I'm the first one to admit that I don't like paperwork and I don't like to deal with all that.
Speaker 1:I feel you.
Speaker 2:And so yeah, so he was awesome. He's like the whisperer of the DDs.
Speaker 1:No, no, no. You need those people.
Speaker 2:And, as far as I know, he's still there and yeah, he's awesome, you know, and I would be like, hey, you know this and that, and he'd be like, all right, I got it I got it?
Speaker 1:Did it ever get to a point where the senior cops bounced and bit out?
Speaker 2:Oh man, yeah, I mean I can't. Right before I left, I want to say pretty much you can't catch a senior cop in a building. I mean I highly doubt it.
Speaker 1:Where in CCWF can a senior cop be safe at?
Speaker 2:Shoot nowhere.
Speaker 1:Nowhere.
Speaker 2:Nowhere You're not safe anywhere. Unfortunately you're not. I mean, your officers are retiring.
Speaker 1:I mean I retire, and we're not necessarily talking about safe as in danger, we're talking about safe as in, like career prolongment. Yes, like how to fucking keep your fucking job. Exactly how retirement?
Speaker 2:how to stay under the radar, because you're just trying to survive yeah, survive exactly. Just show up to work do whatever, don't say nothing, don't hear nothing and see, and that's where we go back to the, to the lazy culture, you know, and it's like do you blame them, in a sense?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Like.
Speaker 1:But I will say this though, and maybe you can piggyback off of this I totally get the environment, I totally get the agenda, but I myself am not going to sacrifice safety and security for me or my people yes, or my job yeah, right For me or my people, at the expense of being lazy.
Speaker 2:Exactly. You got to have a you got to draw that line. Oh yeah, I mean, people are get to the point and I don't even know if it's lazy, maybe it's scared. I don't even know what you want to call it, because you're you got. I mean, right before I left, you know, right before I retired, um, you got people responding to alarms and not even doing anything, basically watching an officer get jumped or or watch an officer get beat up I've seen that.
Speaker 1:I've seen that it's like I've seen that at every prison. You know I see a lot of videos yeah and it's like to me.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. You fire them like why are they even there? Because you don't belong in a prison. If you're not even going to help your partner, I mean, if you see two inmates fighting and you don't want to get involved, I mean you should, you should.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But to see your partner getting attacked and then you not doing anything.
Speaker 1:that's crazy getting attacked and then you not doing anything. That's crazy. With all your experience, all your life experiences, all your corrections experiences, how do you view those people that do not get involved when they're watching their partner getting jumped?
Speaker 2:spineless, like just straight. Spineless, weak, coward. I mean all of that yeah because there's no reason, logical reason to not. You know what I mean 100?
Speaker 1:I? I can't fucking fathom it either. I can't understand it. I can't comprehend it, even if you're gonna go in there and get your ass kicked yourself. That's kind of the whole point, you know. Yes, exactly, you're sacrificing yourself so your partner doesn't get the fucking full enchilada. Yeah, you guys can both take half a fucking enchilada, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly, and that's just how it is. It's like you know, like I mean, you see, I'm short and I used, I mean I gained a lot of weight, but I used to be a lot thinner and I didn't care, like I knew that. Okay, well, I get into this image, probably kick my ass, but I don't care, it's not the point you know like, just like when the transgenders came over.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean that's, I'm probably gonna have ptsd after this fucking episode.
Speaker 2:Man, it's like so shocking yeah, honestly, it's like a never-ending like. No, it's like a fucking nightmare from hell.
Speaker 1:That's realistic. Some of the stuff you have told me already honor dorm condemned inmates and now let's covid.
Speaker 2:Now let's talk about the transgenders yeah, so when so and I was working in that building too, mind you, we got this is during the pandemic. Still, you know, I'm telling you, we got the, you know all this stuff going on. Then, right in the midst of all that, you got the transgenders coming in and check this out. So we have the, the two, the first two that came over and they, they housed them on a yard, which is a reception yard, okay. And then they're like hey, um, just want to let you know, okay, this is where the, the safety and all that goes out the window, because we've got to cater to these transgenders, because you know they're special, you know, for whatever reason. And I was like okay, so they don't go through work, change, they go through the hole. We call it the hole in the wall. It's a door between Alpha Yard and Bravo Yard and they just let them straight to my building. No, searching, no, nothing, they're special.
Speaker 1:Does that door normally get used by staff or something?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it would be used by staff, but why are we using it for inmates?
Speaker 1:Has any other inmate ever went through that doorway?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we allow inmates to go so because on bravo yard you have the eops that yeah, and we have eops over there too, yeah, crazy. So the eops would go from bravo yard to a yard through that door yeah to go to go um, to go program, but they're being escorted, right, they're being escorted, you know whatever, and it was the norm, it's the normal program, but you have, and then you have reception on that yard too.
Speaker 2:So that was just wild the way they did that. But um, so, yeah, inmates did go through that. But see, the thing is, is that here you have these transgender, and at that time I don't know what level, if they were level one, two, whatever.
Speaker 2:They were, basically biological males yeah, they're, men yeah so that these men came over to program and then, because I'm like, like I said, I like to control my environment, I'd be like you're not coming in here until I search you correct, because I want to know what you're trying to bring. And why are you even trying to program over here anyways? And why are they programming in the honor dorm? Like why? Because it's the honor dorm, why you know what I?
Speaker 1:mean. There's no way. I've heard enough. They destroyed the honor dorm by putting dds transgenders, death row inmates. Yeah fuck, are they thinking?
Speaker 2:right, well, I'm telling you, they're like hey, how can I mess something up? And not only mess it it up, destroy it.
Speaker 1:Destroy it. You know what I mean Annihilate it.
Speaker 2:Annihilate it Like well, here we'll just do this. So at every turn. You know, when I was in that building, it was just always a fight. And also remember too, this is what I want to tell people is that when you come across things that are not in policy, you make sure that you call and get clarification and then you follow up with the email document hey, just to understand or clarify what you want me to do X, y and Z and then let them respond yeah, that's what I want, because you're always they're going to say oh, I didn't say they could program in there. When did I say that? Why are they programming in there?
Speaker 1:Wait a minute. Perfect, great example. So you're about to put some men in an honor dorm, right, because they just showed up and maybe your sergeant wants you to. So what you're saying is hey, you call the sergeant, right? You're advising the new staff whenever you face any type of situation. Yes, hey, serge, this is what you want to put these men in this building? Yeah, okay, cool, all right, I'm gonna shoot you an email right now confirming that this is what you want, yep, or another thing.
Speaker 2:What I would tell I would do is I would say hey, can you do me a favor and email me? They won't specifically what you want. Sometimes they would, though, because I'd be like I'm not doing it until you email me that unless they gave me a direct orders, and I'm not that crazy yeah be like oh no, you know, and being subordinate, you know well big for the viewers that are completely oblivious.
Speaker 1:Here's why. So if a man were to ever go into an honor dorm and strangle the shit out of a female and kill her, or rape her or rape her bloody mess everywhere. They're gonna blame the cop exactly they're gonna blame the ceo. Yes, they're gonna wash their fucking hands clean and just live another day yeah, and then you going to get fired because, nobody told you to do that.
Speaker 2:You know because there's no proof. Where's the documentation? Who told you to do that? What are you thinking? You know, because that's what they do.
Speaker 1:Part of the whole NDF mixing, non-designated program mixing GPs, s's and Y's, fresno Bulldogs it's all the same concept. You're putting people where they shouldn't be.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:At the expense of everyone. Yeah, and then I have inmates coming to me like hey, you know, Ms Rod, what do I do, as this world is going to hell at CCWF. Are the female inmates liking this uneasiness and unsecure, or are they disliking it?
Speaker 2:Oh no, they. They disliking it. Oh no, they're, they were disliking it. And see, you know the, the. I don't know how it is to work with the, with the men, but when they, these men, came over, you know I I treated them as, as an inmate, like how I do. You know, the rest of them, I don't care, you know you're a man or whatever, transgender, as they want, and I'm not going to treat you special, I don't care. 602 me, do whatever you want to do. You know, and um, I just feel like a lot of people, the inmates, everybody was like walking on eggshells, not everybody. A lot of people were, were a little like intimidated because they didn't want to, they don't want the wrath they don't want to poke wrath.
Speaker 1:They didn't want to poke the bear.
Speaker 2:They didn't want to poke the bear and I just continued to do my job, Other than something was quite like. Why are they programming in my building when they could go to another building?
Speaker 1:Did that create issues for you? You not changing up your MO and continuing your style. You know what?
Speaker 2:Actually, surprisingly, the men they I don't know, they never told me specifically, but they always respected me you know like like I when I was working on the yard. So I ended up leaving that building. I was working on the yard and I had one of the infamous inmates on that yard his name start with a c yes and um that's a real piece of work. Yeah, came from donovan oh, I didn't know that oh, 100.
Speaker 1:Oh interesting. It was mandatory that everywhere he went they he had to go with a video camera because he would allege that the staff were raping him oh, is that why?
Speaker 2:I see, because I would. They would always go to the, so check it out before I forget. So when he came over, they put him he was in a wheelchair. Yeah, he came over in a wheelchair right, but could walk perfectly fine 100%.
Speaker 1:But I'm not a doctor. I mean, I don't know, but anyways.
Speaker 2:and then they put him in the most. Remember how I tell you like they like to say hey, how can I destroy or mess up a building? Well, they put him in the most vulnerable building, which is where all the women go to. They're either recovering from cancer or they're really old, they can't care for themselves. Yeah, they put him in that building. And not only did they put him in that, that building with the vulnerable, they said that he had to have a bunkie had to have one.
Speaker 1:Why, what do you mean? Had to have one? Yeah, they said that he can't live by himself. Who fucks at that?
Speaker 2:that came up from above, like you know what I mean, like it was above the warden, supposedly I am.
Speaker 1:I am convinced now, after you told me that, that these there's evil people in this world oh yeah and this is evilness playing out yeah right, because there is no other logical explanation why somebody would say this man has to have a bunkie right in this, in this female prison that's besides evil.
Speaker 2:And not to mention, this person has a history of violence.
Speaker 1:And rape.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so now you're making forcing because you got to remember, if these inmates refuse to live with these men.
Speaker 1:They get written up.
Speaker 2:They get written up. How is that even fair for them, like they're? Being forced to live with men, okay. Forced to live with men, okay. And you got to remember too, some of these women have been victims of rape and been victims of abuse and been you know. They've been through a whole lot of stuff and now they are being forced to live with men this is probably the most like eye-opening fucking episode that we literally ever had I the stuff we're talking about is I don't know how to tell the public this you had a male transgender with a real piece of work at Donovan.
Speaker 2:He's all over the news Violent.
Speaker 1:Violent, criminal, predator, Predator yes, last name starts with a C, ends with an arrow, and they housed him in a female housing unit and somebody up above I don't know Jeff McCumber's fucking area of expertise said he must have a female cellmate and these females don't have a say in it. A lot of them were victims of sexual assault themselves. I have a fucking daughter and that's really pissing me off right now.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, and that's really pissing me off right now. Oh yeah, and us, you know, as female officers, you know the inmates were running to us for some type of you know safety, you know like, what do we do? What can I do? And all I could tell them was the only option they have is to 602.
Speaker 1:But I don't, we had to. My brain works a little different. Yeah Right, I'd be like you want that problem?
Speaker 2:I don't. I we had. My brain works a little different?
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, I'll be like you want that problem to go away here? Right, make that problem go away forever. That's just the way my my brain thinks, like, hey, there's only one way to eliminate this fucking problem right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But you can't think like that as a CEO, right, but you're in a really fucked up position.
Speaker 2:You are up position. You are. Well, we were. We were put in a really messed up predicament because now, like remember I was talking about the security checks. Now, those security checks, like were very important, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Because those are not secure, those are, those are like life checks those are like yeah, and then you know god checks because yeah, you know, what's crazy is that after the first allegation right Of of sexual assault. Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:So that in me was I don't know I might be getting my story wrong, but I know for a fact that he didn't go to AdSeg Of course he didn't. No.
Speaker 1:You got motherfuckers killing dudes on yards right now that are not going to AdSeg.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, I didn't even know that 100%. That's wild. Then you get another allegation. I mean at what point? I mean come on that's. I mean, yes, the females are their inmates, but that's that's which goes back to the evil.
Speaker 1:Yeah, inhumane fucking. What do they call those civil rights violations?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's just that's wrong, that's just that is very wrong.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so when I was thinking how I was going to solve that problem with, like, maybe eat a steak dinner at the podium, actually leave my knife there and go home for the day. You know what I mean, but let them handle it.
Speaker 2:But that's fucking crazy you know, you got to remember, yes, these, okay. So, like that building that he was in, these are inmates that are not troubled, they're not violent. So so you're putting him with nonviolent, non, you know the most vulnerable inmates. What are they going to do?
Speaker 1:So during that chaos that you're talking about, I believe I had already quit the department and I had a lot of female inmates and like advocates coming to me for help man, and I tried my best to air out that truth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean, like you know, like during the pandemic the inmates were coming to me and they're, like you know, should I get the vaccine?
Speaker 2:And I said I can't tell you what to do. That's the I go. But I'll tell you what. I'm not going to get it, or I'm you know what I mean Like know, and I'm like, I'm different, like you're I'm not gonna do. That's not gonna happen. I'm not gonna allow some man to live in my, my cell, my room. You know you do. But see, you got to remember. These inmates are trying to go home too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know the you're put, they're put in a predict. They want to go home, right to their family. So what can they do that?
Speaker 1:is so fucking inhumane.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's evil, I can't top the word besides evil yeah, what they did, it is what they did and then now look, they got him out exactly, it's sick so why was he there to begin with? You know?
Speaker 1:it was so yeah, I mean and then is he back at a male institution. I think he is huh good and it's just I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's just, it's really, it's really sad and something does need to be done, you know, and one of the things I think needs to be done is that they need to transfer out all the level threes and level fours no people need to be held accountable at the top.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah For these decisions that they made and continue to make.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, absolutely that for sure. But as far as safety and security goes, they need to start getting rid of those level fours Because you don't get a pass.
Speaker 1:You don't get a pass for getting people raped and getting people killed.
Speaker 2:No, no, and you're still advocating for more to come. I mean what, still advocating for for more to come? I mean, what are they going to do when every man says I'm a woman now.
Speaker 1:Now, what are you going to do? So how many officers on the seniority roster are there at ccwf?
Speaker 2:um, about I want to say before I left, like 4, 30 or something, 4, 30 during all this stuff that things are going downhill.
Speaker 1:What was the morale like around amongst the the bunks?
Speaker 2:oh, man, horrible, horrible. The morale there. It was like every man for themselves, pretty much. That's the only way I could describe it, and I'm sure it's probably worse had that changed from when you first started your career there oh yeah, absolutely see, when I, you know, like I was naive, thinking, oh, everybody's going to help me, everything's cool, you know.
Speaker 2:no, you had to earn assistance. You had to earn that knowledge. You know, if you had to prove that you were going to work, you had to prove that you were ready to get your hands dirty. If you will, you know, and then people would be hey, let me help you out, let me let me teach you Burn your bones, yeah, you know, and, but now it's like a free for all.
Speaker 2:You know you got nobody wants to help nobody. Everybody's for themselves. You know, nobody has your back. And it's just like but look at the top, though. I mean, if you, it starts from the top right. Everybody's backstabbing Everybody's to get to the top. They're stepping on everybody. You know what I mean and it's like you see it, nobody.
Speaker 1:But in order for change to happen, there has to be change.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, just sitting back and not doing anything. Sitting back and complaining, sitting back and being selfish is not the answer. No, back and complaining.
Speaker 2:Sitting back and being selfish is not the answer.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely not Right. There has to be a change. I mean, there has to be sacrifice, and whatever way that looks, you know and I've been thinking about it more and more like people are expecting change without doing anything. Yeah, it doesn't work that way.
Speaker 2:You know, and the thing is is that, like they say, the saying goes, you're doing the same thing every day, expecting a different insanity, yeah and expecting a different result. Like, how are you going to think things are going to change when your actions are not changing? Correct so, and I I truly believe that that's gonna have to. Of course, we gotta start getting rid of people at the top, and we have have to get rid of the California model, for sure, and people.
Speaker 1:We need to go into that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:How would that pitch to you guys?
Speaker 2:Well, when that came about I want to say it was around the same time as the pandemic too that started like getting into talks. They started sending people to Norway. I thought that was a joke. I was like how that doesn't even make sense.
Speaker 2:These women are violent, you know what I mean. They're assaulting all the time. So, like during the pandemic, it was controlled, right, there wasn't too many incidents going on. And then, once we went back to normal, of course it started getting crazy. Right, they were battering each other, battering staff, all the drugs rolling in, all that stuff we're allowing visitors, so of course more drugs, all this stuff was going on, right. And then you bring in the California model where it's like you can't hold these inmates accountable anymore. You know, you're you're trying to write the inmates up and do the right thing and they're just dropping their write-ups or they're dismissing them, deleting them or undermining anything that you do, facts, you know basically, they're fudging the numbers, they're cooking the books
Speaker 1:oh yeah they're making write-ups go away to make it look like these programs are effective. Oh, exactly Kind of reminds me of the Menendez brothers, but that's another story. Yeah, same concept.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, you're right, You're absolutely right. And they would, and I would see it, and they would be like oh yeah, we're normal program when we're barely even surviving here. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1:It's almost like Well, there was that massive riot in Ironwood where the 200 sureños went off on the cops.
Speaker 2:That was a skeleton crew that's scary Like eight.
Speaker 1:It was 200 on eight, with no response from the other sister facility. Nobody was at work.
Speaker 2:See, and this is my thing, Like you know, you pay your dues every month, right?
Speaker 1:People pay your dues every month.
Speaker 2:Right, people pay their dues every month and what are they getting at it golf. They're golfing with like that's a slap in the face.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean it's it's it's corruption, it's agenda, it's it's corruption yeah and see and then.
Speaker 2:So that started. The california model started taking place. Then at at cWF, there was a big riot.
Speaker 1:What did that riot consist of?
Speaker 2:So that, and you know what that riot was bullshit, because it actually and the cops didn't have anything to do with it Like everything right, they make decisions at the top and then the officers are the ones having to to deal with the bullshit.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You know, and so as far as I know because of course I wasn't there but the chief deputy or AW somebody made orders for them to go and bring them down to six feet cubic feet.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:For the lockers right cubic feet, yeah, for the lockers right. Well, for whatever great, whoever made the great, I gave them the great idea to take all the inmates out in the middle of the summer, where it gets 115 degrees, and put them in the chow hall yeah and I mean that we're talking about about 200 inmates.
Speaker 2:God, yes, I mean around there and then, and then now you're, you're leaving them in there for hours and these inmates they like what did I say during the pandemic? They mostly care about their property. I mean, they've been down for years, they have so much property and now you know was it hot?
Speaker 1:I mean, did you hear that it was hot?
Speaker 2:it was hot and it was in the chow hall, so now it's humid, it's muggy. And it's like you know. So now they're getting impatient, they're getting irritated, now they're becoming irate, and then, of course, what's bound to happen? That you're not letting them out of the chow hall. I mean, they got to use a brush, it's not?
Speaker 1:going they have and who's in there? And who's in there? Probably two cops, probably Probably two COs. Yeah, kind of just fucking posted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean, can you imagine dealing with a bunch of angry females?
Speaker 1:And I mean they got their vest on too. They're hot as fuck.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, they have their equipment. They probably haven't even ate, they probably don't have water or anything.
Speaker 1:So what happens in this riot?
Speaker 2:So what ends up happening is the inmates start getting resistive. They're trying to get out, they're being whatever I don't mean to laugh. All hell breaks loose there. You know what I mean and honestly, I don't blame the inmates. Like, here you are, you're holding me hostage and I mean I'm, I'm not saying that yeah, yeah right. I'm not justifying what they did, but at the same time it could have been prevented facts you know what I mean, like, and I you know, of course I wasn't there, so I don't know exactly.
Speaker 1:So was force used.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean yeah, you got over 100 inmates.
Speaker 1:What was the Code 3 riot called?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Code 3 riot was called Was there a staff being assaulted. Yep.
Speaker 1:You got staff being assaulted, staff got injured, all behind the management making bad decisions. Now, as a result of this riot, did staff members get well illegally?
Speaker 2:moved to other institutions. Yeah, and you know what's crazy involuntary move involuntary move to other prisons and they all happen to be hispanic out of over a hundred officers of different races that's weird and you only select.
Speaker 1:I think it was like six or seven or eight or whatever one I believe was a brand spanking new cop. From what I heard, yeah, hey, but you know what's crazy? They were selected, they weren't correct they were hand-picked right by by, from what I believe, the associate director, yeah, from what I heard from fops.
Speaker 2:What does somebody from fops have anything to do with selecting? Agendas exactly disgusting and then, on top of that, the weird thing is one of those officers happened to be running for the president at that chapter of the chapter, and so it makes you think what Did that president at that time? Have a say, in that move 100% Game of Thrones.
Speaker 1:You ever seen Game of Thrones? It's very politically and very cutthroat, similar to moves like that. Yeah, here's a kicker. Please tell me the female inmates got held accountable and please tell me that they did not have a day of therapy or a day of peace. What was it? A day of recovery?
Speaker 2:well, let me go back. So the very next day, the warden sends out a memo, or not even a memo, like an email addressing hey, commanding, you know um, commanding, all the um the responding staff that utilize force.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, I've seen that email.
Speaker 2:Hey, you know good job. You know blah, blah, blah, all this stuff. You know giving them, you know credit because it was definitely due, you know because that was. That's a crazy situation. And then, next thing you know, these officers are uprooted, transferred out. You know no inmate, I don't even know if any inmates went to Ad Seg, maybe for a day or two. Then, to add insult to injury, then the next day or two days later they have a day of healing for the inmates In the gym. Not even like hey, you know, know, are these officers okay or you?
Speaker 1:know a day of healing not, not not holding them.
Speaker 2:Was there anybody was?
Speaker 1:there a fly on the wall in there. Did anybody know what happened in there? Like were they talking about? No, what did they provide? Because they provide a therapist I I don't even know.
Speaker 2:It was more about like let's go ahead and and make sure that you guys, let's make this a safe space for you guys, because you guys were traumatized and officers were not in there because the officers traumatized them. You know what I mean. So we have to keep the officers away this is california, this is fucking california.
Speaker 1:In a nutshell, like right now 2025.
Speaker 2:Right now, that's not all californians, because you and I are not down with that type of mentality right but that is california politics at its fucking finest right, and the sad thing is that all those inmates that you know battered officers or that obstructed and that you know incited all that stuff, all their write-ups.
Speaker 1:Disappeared.
Speaker 2:Disappeared Dismissed. Rvrs got dismissed.
Speaker 1:But I guarantee you this I guarantee all the cops that used force got put under investigation.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yep.
Speaker 1:And then people wonder you know why is it so bad to be a ceo?
Speaker 2:yeah, or why there's a high turnaround rate, or why people are just outright quitting now, or why a lot of people are on workman's comp exactly or you know what I mean, but it's so fucking stupid and then that's why it goes back to the culture of, you know, like I said, being lazy. Well, why are they lazy? Well, because when they do their job and do what they're supposed to do, you punish them, you know, and it's like you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't. You know and that doesn't justify you. If you see your partner getting as battered or salted you better jump in and do something.
Speaker 1:So basically yeah, and I mean, would you agree with this statement A? If you're currently a CO and you got a fucking shitload of time, just go to work, Mind your business. When you see your partner getting his ass kicked, jump in Period.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, you got to jump in.
Speaker 1:That's what it boils down to Right. That's what it boils down to right.
Speaker 2:I mean no more trying to fucking save the day, solve crime, fucking try to find dope. Yeah, I mean you're just there to, like you know, just show up and get your paycheck.
Speaker 1:It's hot potato. You're there to make sure the bomb doesn't explode on your shift.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, you know, like, and it hasn't stopped Since that riot happened, the incidents on, like the inmates assaulting staff has skyrocketed, like it was like, okay, the very little control that the prison had of the inmates or the officers had of the inmates, it disappeared. After that riot. There's I mean I'm hearing like the inmates are saying, whoa, you can't do nothing. What are you going to do? Absolutely, you know they're spitting in officers' you can't do nothing.
Speaker 2:What are you going to do? Absolutely. You know they're spitting in an officer's face Like what. What are you going to do? Nothing happens to them. You know, and this is not coming from level ones and two inmates, this is coming from level threes and fours, because those inmates have nothing to lose, they don't care If you could wave a magic wand or if they were to put you in charge of a female institution.
Speaker 1:what are some changes you would make?
Speaker 2:Well, right off the bat, I would transfer those level threes and fours out.
Speaker 1:But where would you transfer them to?
Speaker 2:I would transfer them to a prison that can accommodate, like a 180 design building where you could like segregate so what you're saying is, the design of ccwf is not enough to be able to house yes violent level three and level four female exactly well, just put things into perspective and that even it's not even enough to sometimes because they ended up putting like, like I said, they like to mess things up, so they put all the C over C inmates into back to reception into I believe it's a 180 design building. Since they put them in that building they've been having co-twos co-threes in that building because they don't want to be in there.
Speaker 1:they're resisting, and then the one officer that is able to was able to kind of control that they move them out because the inmates were not happy with them so when cdcr posts on their website walk of walk, cancer walk at ccwf or playing sports at ccwf, like what is that reflecting of actually what's transpiring inside of ccwf?
Speaker 2:no, of course not. There is no.
Speaker 1:You know kumbaya there is no kumbaya. There's no kumbaya in reality no and I mean, you're the source, you're there listen, they had a to put things in perspectives.
Speaker 2:They had a where they tried to what they call like bridge the gap between officers or staff, but mostly officers and inmates. Right, they had a whole thing on the main yard and I, the only people that showed up, was probably just the people that worked on the yard. Hey, no, and then this was all voluntary, right, officers? Hey, come out, have some food with inmates, you know? Like, have some? Yeah, let's, let's, whatever. Do you think anybody showed up? No, only people that showed up were all the freaking brown nosers, that's it yeah, I mean, or the people I mean that had to be there.
Speaker 2:Hey, I'm working the yard, you know, so I got to be there, but voluntarily to go there, no, so that if that doesn't show you like, hey, that gap is just, you know, it's so huge that the only way to fix it is.
Speaker 1:What advice do you have for?
Speaker 2:ceos. I mean, you have, you have so much experience, what advice do you have? Um, I definitely. Well, you're talking about as far as the ones that are there right now yeah, that are like you're a.
Speaker 1:You're a 24 year old, 25 year old, maybe 26 year old, you just started you got one, two, three, four years in. What the hell is the advice? Reality, reality. You know, we no longer work for the department, we're not bound by policy. What would you honestly, would you authentically, tell them?
Speaker 2:Well, I will put it this way I will never, ever tell an office or anybody to apply, because to me I feel like that would be like me saying go, walk and fire. You know what I mean. Like I would not tell somebody to go walk and fire and I'm not going to tell somebody to go apply for the department, but obviously, if you're already there and you're in it, I would take some serious re-evaluation of where you want to be in life and, and you know, because people are pretty much being made to put their morals and their ethics almost no, I mean facts, mean facts. You know what I mean. Like you're at this point.
Speaker 1:It's like it's no longer about policy procedure. Yeah, now we fucking moral and spiritual battle.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, you know, and uh, and you brought it up right there. That's a good point. It's a spiritual battle. Go find God honestly, go build a relationship with God and, and honestly, once I started doing that, I mean I left the department. And I didn't leave it, I retired because I got injured, you know, and, honestly, it was the biggest blessing now for me that that happened, because and you bring up a good point.
Speaker 1:Not only you know God, but utilize your resources. There's EAP, there's peer support. You know there's there's. You have insurance. You definitely have insurance. Contact you for mental health services. Get physically fit. Eat healthy. Don't drink with your partners.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, watch your circle, you know, Don't think that you could. Just you know, don't. Don't go out and party and do all this crazy stuff like people are doing.
Speaker 1:Blow your money.
Speaker 2:Don't save.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like these are all traps yes, live within your means, you know I I learned that the hard way you know, and it's like you really have to be strategic about how you want to move forward. You know, because at any moment if you are caught up in an incident, your, your job could be gone, you know, or?
Speaker 1:And how many times have we seen that?
Speaker 2:A lot, a lot of times, I mean.
Speaker 1:I remember I told my mom one time mom, they're firing people for no reason. She's like no Hector. They don't fire people for no reason.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, you're collateral damage. You know that's really what you are, because it's like hey, oh, you know they were there, we're gonna go ahead and fire that person, so that way I could go ahead and promote to captain or to leave no loose ends.
Speaker 2:You're right yeah, you know, and oh my god and it's, it's sad because it shouldn't be like that, it should just be. You know what this is, what happened, this is facts and that's it like let's, let's go ahead and take care of the officer who, just all you know, like, like in the mail, I mean it's coming to the women's prison too, you know, because we got them in there. These women are violent. People don't realize that they are violent you know they.
Speaker 1:They have weapons too, you know, and so it's like they get down crazy, though man, they'll slice your face or throw boiling water on you.
Speaker 2:They're fucking vicious yes, they are vicious and people don't realize that. But I I think if you're there right now, if you're an officer right now and you want to stay there, you know you have to think about is that prison right for you? Do you want to stay there? You know you have to think about is that prison right for you? Do you want to promote, especially if you have like a couple or a few years in think about promotion you know promotion think of other things that you could do, you know, because being an officer stuck as an officer, is not the only.
Speaker 1:Correct. There's other avenues. Yeah, and I mean ultimately, yeah, even if you have two years as an officer, promote, promote your sergeant, because you probably have that mentality to be able to make those changes.
Speaker 2:yeah, and a good heart and a good head on your shoulders yes and see, and and this is another thing I want to talk about is, as a female officer, we are like constantly judged. You know we're judged as far as if we're, you know, lazy or we're too like my husband would call it Karen You're like you're Karen, and it's basically just officers enforcing the rules, and it's like we're judged no matter what we do. So just be yourself, be yourself, don't worry about. In other words, people are going to judge you no matter what, especially if you're a female. Like when I was working, I didn't wear makeup, I didn't care where, I didn't put on any makeup, especially because if I was going to get sprayed in the face, I don't want to worry about that you know what I mean, because that did happen to me, but I wasn't wearing makeup so it didn't matter.
Speaker 2:You know, and I got. You know um the powders from the blast. You know, wear clothing underneath your uniform, you know, just do things.
Speaker 1:Those are all key points right there that I never even considered.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because once, well twice, we had an accidental discharge from a blast, an OC blast, and the powder got all over the place, and for whatever reason, because it was just like the pepper or whatever it was so it didn't really affect me. So I was able to clean and clean that whole program office and it didn't affect me at all. But it got all over my clothes, you know, and I'm going home.
Speaker 1:I don't want to bring those clothes to now you got to take it off before you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but luckily yeah, I always had shorts and and then another t-shirt underneath. So you're, you know. That's the thing. It sucks because we have to wear extra layers. You know it's hot and whatever, but I would, you know, just be who you are. You don't have to. You know, don't please anybody. You know, don't degrade. Or how do you say Don't change for somebody else. You know what I mean. Like just to get a job, just to whatever, because you're irreplaceable as soon as you they as soon as then you academy class shows up, you're going to be.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, the new booties come on and and the cuter or whatever.
Speaker 1:Younger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, younger, yeah, younger, and they don't know any better. And they're going to be like whatever you want, I got you. You know 100%, and it's like you're just just remember that you know, as soon as I was able to bid, I bid, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then, you know, a couple of years later I had a female sergeant, highly respected her, and she's like come work for me on the yard. And I was like go for a female, no problem. She ended up retiring and then a male came in but I was like I'm gonna be leaving soon anyways.
Speaker 1:But yeah, wow, man, we covered so much in this episode. I want to bring you back to do a part two really there's so much, I mean dang, we just got into, like, I mean, we unpacked a lot yeah, there's a lot more definitely to talk about for sure yeah no, for sure like I really enjoyed our time here and thank you for making that drive down oh yeah, absolutely thank you.
Speaker 2:And I do want to say on record you are making an impact. Maybe you know, nobody's telling you, I'm not sure but you are making an impact out there. And for the people out there I would say to go get his book.
Speaker 1:Oh cool that that book is awesome thank you um operational recall right yeah, operation, yard recall, yard recall, that's right.
Speaker 2:Appreciate awesome book please go get it, especially if you are a cadet. But I, I mean, I don't work there anymore and I was like this is good stuff. It's very informative, for whether you're a seasoned officer or just starting.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that. So, once again, thank you, and you'll be back for sure. Yes, cool, there you guys have it. Man, I told you I was going to do it. Another banger for you guys, if you like what you saw.
Speaker 2:Make sure you hit that subscribe button. Love you keep pushing forward unhinged line. Hector's legend engraved living life raw, never been tamed. From the hood to the truth entails pen, hector, bravo. Unhing story never ends.
