Hector Bravo UNHINGED
Official Hector Bravo Podcast
Hector Bravo UNHINGED
American History X Was My Real Life
Jimmy, a former inmate who spent 17 years in California prisons, shares his journey from troubled youth to prison survival and eventual transformation after release in 2017.
• Deep family roots in Texas, including an uncle who died at the Alamo
• Diagnosed with autism and ADHD at age 50, providing context to childhood behavioral issues
• Connection to American History X film - was present during filming of scenes showing skinhead gatherings
• Convicted of voluntary manslaughter in 2000, received 19-year sentence with hate crime enhancement
• Experience in multiple prisons including Pelican Bay's notorious lockdowns and out-of-state transfers
• Detailed accounts of prison riots, including a five-hour melee in Oklahoma that left blood splattered on ceilings
• Critical analysis of CDCR's systemic failures, including toxic culture on both staff and inmate sides
• Perspective on how prison dehumanizes everyone involved through intentional isolation and power dynamics
• Currently working in junk removal while developing social media presence to share his spiritual journey
• Believes lasting prison reform requires addressing cultural issues at all levels, not just policy changes
Narrated podcast that unearths dark historical tales.
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
Hector Bravo unhinged.
Speaker 2:Chaos is now in session. Welcome back to our channel Warriors. We are still growing again as we continue into season number two. Another special guest by the name of Jimmy, a white dude from Orange County. I put the emphasis on white dude because we're going to get into it. He spent 17 years of his life in a California state prison and he's here to tell a story. What up, jimmy? How you doing Good, you, good, good. You can relax man, it's chill conversation, it's all good. So Orange County since birth.
Speaker 1:No, no, I'm originally from Texas. Oh, since birth. No, no, I'm originally from Texas. Oh, oh, yeah, texan. Texan too, what part. Well, I was born in Corpus Christi, but my family's from Abilene Sweetwater. Okay, my fourth great uncle was GB Jameson, fought and died at the Alamo. Really Got a third great grandfather that was born in Gonzales, texas, inxas, in 1846. Uh, moved up to montague county, which was on the border of oklahoma. That wasn't called oklahoma back then, that was indian territory. So, uh, he ended up moving out to cross plains, which is out by abilene running stagecoach how important is your family lineage to you?
Speaker 1:Pretty important. I think it's important to understand who your ancestors are so you have a better understanding of who you are. Damn dude, I like that. Yeah, I mean, one of my ancestors is Lincoln. I thought that was one of those family stories that you know, one of those family stories that like, yeah, no, we're, we're related to Lincoln.
Speaker 2:Now, did you do your own research or was this like in the family? Hey, you should probably know that your uncles and your grandfather were this person in the family.
Speaker 1:Uh, I knew about Lincoln. That was one of the stories. That was one of the stories family stories.
Speaker 2:Kind of got his jawline.
Speaker 1:now that you mention it, yeah, my great-grandmother used to tell me all the time, the only time we go down to the root cellars for tornadoes and engines, and I thought she was joking. You know, I thought there's no way. You know, like yeah.
Speaker 2:Engines. Engines In 2025, is that a derogatory term? I mean, I don't know, nor do I care. Not that I want to be disrespectful, I'm just not a politically correct podcast.
Speaker 1:Is it? I don't know.
Speaker 2:We'll have to do a.
Speaker 1:Google search Wait a week.
Speaker 2:So how long did you live in Texas before you commuted?
Speaker 1:So I've lived everywhere. I've lived in Maine, North Dakota, Idaho, Alaska, back to Maine, Massachusetts, California, England, back to California. I grew up as an Army brat, basically.
Speaker 2:You did?
Speaker 1:My dad worked for the government.
Speaker 2:He was a federal worker, mm-hmm. He was not in the military himself, no, so everywhere he went, you went. Damn dude, did that affect the way you socialized with meeting people and then not meeting people?
Speaker 1:right, yeah, I've, I've got a whole thing to where I, you know, I I know how to meet people. I just after, after three years, right, you know, I don't know what that kind of entails. How tall are you, dude, six, four.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're tall as fuck man. You're a big guy. I just wanted the crowd to know that he's a big motherfucker. No disrespect. Yeah, so you're traveling around all over. I'm assuming your dad has a good grasp on you as far as discipline. Okay, does he?
Speaker 1:Sure, I'm asking you, okay, does he? Sure I'm asking I, you know? I mean, the thing was I was scared of my dad, yeah, and I didn't want to do things to annoy him, piss him off, whatever the case was, still did you know? Still did all the time, uh what age frame are we talking.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know if if we're gonna get real deep about it. I mean, at the age of five I decided like, oh, I'm a bad kid, I'm gonna be a bad kid, uh. But you know that that gets into other like mental health issues, autism, adhd type stuff and being kind kind of typecast as the bad kid when you're kind of having issues getting along like a normal kid would.
Speaker 2:This has all transpired up to, and prior to the age of five. You've discovered this, yeah, now is this you looking back in hindsight, or is this you realizing at the age of five? Hey, man, I want to be bad, you know I this you realizing at the age of five.
Speaker 1:Hey, man, I want to be bad. You know, I didn't understand at the age of five. I just knew that basically, you know, I'd been put into a box of like you are the bad kid, you do do bad shit, you do dumb shit. Like you know what is wrong with you. And then, at the age of five, you just kind of accept oh, this is me. So then for the rest of my time I'm just messing around.
Speaker 2:We're almost the same age, approximately 10 years apart. So we fast forward back to the 80s. What would you consider bad shit in the 80s?
Speaker 1:Just stupid stuff, you know, smoking before school, stealing money, breaking windows? No, not necessarily.
Speaker 2:At least you weren't vandalizing shit.
Speaker 1:You know, and yeah, bad's relative right Like I wasn't doing too much in the way, but you know I was creating issues for my family. I was a behavioral problem creating issues for my family. I was a behavioral problem. Uh, school by the time I was in fourth grade school started going downhill.
Speaker 2:Um important question was it because you were not applying yourself, meaning like hey, you knew the material, you just didn't care to do it?
Speaker 1:I mean, that was the thing the entire time was. It wasn't a matter of me not understanding what was being taught correct.
Speaker 2:It was a matter of me wanting to do it because I just met you about five minutes ago and you seem like an intelligent guy, man, right, right I'm sure it didn't happen overnight, right? Sure it's been a work in progress. Yeah, and you just explained your family lineage, right? I'm not?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's the thing is is you know, and that's when it comes down to looking at yourself and understanding. I'm 50 years old, turning 50 in a couple weeks, and I'm just now finding out about, you know, autism, adhd and kind of the roles that these things have played in my life up to this point. Now it makes a lot of sense, you know, when you go back and you look at your life and there's things that haven't made sense the entire time, and then you know, at the age of 50, finding out like oh no, this might be why there's a lot of transition.
Speaker 2:It's a mindfuck the beautiful thing about it, man, is there's no expiration date to uh learning about yourself or consuming new knowledge, exactly, and education and, I believe, podcasts in 2025 is definitely helping the regular people of society understand things that are real right, right.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, this is this is, you know, for the most part, unfiltered, real, absolutely. You know, and and put out there as is correct. Uh, it's not a, it's not a play, not trying to direct the people in any certain way, just put out the information you know what the kicker is, though.
Speaker 2:The kicker is that a lot of people can relate and do have similar experiences. Right, so it's all about helping people, exactly exactly. So here you are, man. I wouldn't call you a delinquent, because now we understand why you were behaving the way you were behaving. Um, when did you end up in california? When?
Speaker 1:did you end up in California? Seventh grade, seventh grade, so I was probably 12, 13. Puberty, yeah, and that's why for the most part, I feel like I kind of when I talk to people. I grew up in Orange County, I grew up in Southern California, because those years I spent here for the most part.
Speaker 2:You've been around. You've been around the United States. Would you agree that California moves different?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, oh yeah, and even you know I've been out to Tennessee and Oklahoma and dealt with the staff there watching us. Oh shit, you were part of the out of state. What were they? Level three at the there watching us.
Speaker 2:Oh shit, you were part of the out-of-state Mm-hmm. What were they? Level three at the time. Yeah, oh shit, didn't even know you were out-of-state when we're going to get to that. So you went out-of-state as a you know the out-of-state transfers and you were able to observe that the staff there.
Speaker 1:Oh dude, I've never seen so much, so much staff walked off.
Speaker 2:I would say the lack of pay may have contributed to that.
Speaker 1:Of course, Of course, you know when you get there and you've got, you know, you've got someone you know telling one of the guys like hey, if I give you 100 bucks, you bring me a can of Bugler. He's like shit, for 100 bucks I'll bring you like five cans.
Speaker 2:Fuck dude, they're fucking outselling themselves. Yeah, downselling themselves.
Speaker 1:And that whole place, you know, smelled like a bong. Wow, every time you pick up the phone it's like man, We'll get there, we'll get there.
Speaker 2:So here you are, man in the who were your friends when shit started to go south. I see your tattoos. I don't need to know your background to know what you were getting into. When did that start?
Speaker 1:You know, on a very base level, it started when I first moved to California. You know, as you said, things moved differently in California. Uh, you know, as you said, things move differently in California. So you know, coming from the background that I was coming from in Massachusetts and then coming out here, uh, very different, very different. Uh, in Massachusetts I lived in a really rich neighborhood Hyannis is on cape cod, nice kennedy's, damn right. So I was not rich, you know, I was poor, um, and I also played basketball. So, needless to say, you know, I remember one time my parents asked me, like we don't have a problem with it, but why are all your friends black? I remember telling them, like, it's just who I'm hanging out with, we all play basketball together, we all, you know, blah, blah, blah. And they're like no, they're like no, we're good, we're just curious. And I told them I said, you know, none of the white kids like me, or, you know, hang out with me because I'm poor. The blacks, they didn't care, right.
Speaker 1:So then I moved to California. It was in the first week. I'm already in a fight with a black dude. How, why, what? Just didn't like me, A new kid, you know. So every time I show up somewhere I have to fight someone, and then you know you got the oh, it's a new person. Blah, blah, blah. So you got the people that want to fight you and the people that want to love you. Okay, you know. But okay, you know, um, but you know, right off the bat, we end up in the principal's office. He's saying that I'm calling them stuff. Ain't true, you know. But you know, coming from a place to where it was very like you're, uh, accepted, it is what it is. We're all different people, we're all doing what we do To California, where things are very black and white, pun intended.
Speaker 2:Pun intended. So you mean to tell me at that time frame, at that age, even the two different locations California was already kind of segregated. Oh yeah, I had no idea.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm not just playing dumb, I really had no idea it was like that or different in other places at that time well, you know, and plus the part of orange county I'm from, oh, orange county too, right on the border of la county, I'm right there by long beach, okay, so you know there is tensions this is going to be a very interesting episode, bro, and I got to like fucking maneuver from the start to the finish.
Speaker 2:Man, at what point was the ideology introduced to you?
Speaker 1:There had to have been some type of ideology introduced to you ideology introduced to you, uh, uh, you know, roughly around the time I was 14, um. You know there were older dudes in the in the neighborhood, um like old men, or just a couple years old. Like you know, older homeboys that you know, know my friend's older brother, felons.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, and you know you find out later on in life when you're looking back at stuff and so on and so forth. You know my friend's brother. He was doing the lifer plan but like an installment, installments. I hear you, he was, uh, he was addicted to heroin.
Speaker 2:Heroin isn't even a white guy drug Nah.
Speaker 1:And uh, well, I mean, you know, and it's funny cause there's, you know, there's family, uh, there's family stuff involved there. Uh, my mom used to take morphine, uh, a lot involved there. Uh, my mom used to take morphine a lot. She had a bad back and um, it was funny because I had never really dealt with people who did heroin until I went to prison.
Speaker 1:And then you know, you see all the dudes right, yeah it's like man, uh, but that was my mom, damn, yeah, and fuck me up, um. But yeah, you know these, these, these older dudes. You know, it was kind of in the neighborhood and, like I said, we're on the border of la county, so there's already tensions and and when you you've mentioned on the border of la county um, can you like emphasize on that like, what does that mean was there?
Speaker 2:is it the fact that you're just from two different geographical locations that there's tension, or was it the people on the other side that were you guys were tripping on, or you guys vice versa?
Speaker 1:oh, both, both. You know, um. You know part of it. Part of it was you know the whole idea of cleaning up your neighborhood and you ain't coming to our neighborhood to do this stuff because we are on the border. You've got people coming over the border hitting, you know uh, home invasions, gas stations, uh, just on the street, you know, um, and so you ain't gonna do that in my neighborhood, thank you thank you for um emphasizing that, bro.
Speaker 2:Like I had no idea, and I make that makes sense, dude, you guys were like vigilantes to a degree right and that you know, and that was like the whole point.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know, at one point we had, um, you know, local police force kind of on board. You know they were like who the fuck?
Speaker 2:is that and I'm pd orange county who the fuck?
Speaker 1:hey, you know they're like. Hey, listen like y'all got rid of them.
Speaker 2:Oh shit, good, Was this a racial thing? Yeah, well, you know, I mean Meaning opposite races, different races, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and so we'd have. You know, one time we had a gang from Long Beach come over and try to, you know, start doing stuff in the neighborhood, and they had moved in and lived in the neighborhood. And so one time I'm standing out in the street and get accosted by a couple of them They've got their hands in their pockets like they're about something, and about 30 of my friends come out out and we chase them down the street and, uh, the cops show up.
Speaker 2:Um, they got run out, you know how many of these skirmishes occurred, would you say approximately, if it wasn't you actively present? Were you aware of your homeboys that were like hey, we fucking ran these dudes out over here?
Speaker 1:No, I mean, there weren't situations like that all the time. It just was a situation where we're not getting along with whomever or don't want whomever walking around. So you know, we get into this whole aspect and I want to touch on the fact that you know, I really believe that we were being used by the powers that be right. Like you end up with different groups that get pushed to the forefront of everyone's mind, right, and you get riled up and this becomes a news story. This becomes changing the public's opinion, a societal shift in in people's opinion opinion, a societal shift in people's opinion. When you do that, you can push different things. So if you get everyone pumped up about all these you know crazy white kids on the street well then you can kind of push in other stuff, programs, policies, whatever the case may be that people are going to be like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, bring that in, but that's because of how they're feeling right now. But when it kind of everything comes out in the wash, everyone's realizing like, oh shit, maybe we shouldn't.
Speaker 2:Maybe we shouldn't have invaded Iraq after all, dude, that's a bigger. What you just said is exactly the same thing as government.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the vicious cycle, and I mean I watched the whole thing, I you know 9-11.
Speaker 2:Not only did you watch the whole thing In this cycle, you were a part of it, you were a pawn, exactly, and I had that experience of as well being a pawn. Yeah, hey, warriors. If you haven't already signed up for our all-new website, hectorbravoshowcom, make sure you sign up at the link below, hectorbravoshowcom to watch explicit, uncensored, never-before-seen prison footage. With that love you Keep pushing forward. What would you say at this moment to the American people that are not aware of that cycle or refuse to believe that vicious government cycle?
Speaker 1:It's around us all the time. I mean it's happening right now.
Speaker 2:Remember back in the day they used to call people like this conspiracy theorist.
Speaker 1:But you know and it's so funny because you know a lot of people they don't want to, they don't want to know what do they call it? Ignorance is bliss. It's just stuck their head in the sand, correct, and everything's cool and we're good and it's golden, you know? And you got the dumpster fire behind them.
Speaker 2:Right, it's like Right. So here you are, man doing the Lord's work as a white kid in Orange county man running out the uh delinquents, but you guys were a part of the problem. Yeah, you were the same doing, doing the government's work, man fighting at each other's throats exactly exactly you know when did you could, bro you? You strike me as an all-in-or-nothing type of guy dude, right, not like a half asser. Right, when did you make that fucking commitment?
Speaker 1:I'm in so when I was 16, I had I'd been kicked out of my high school. I dropped out of continuation school, um, I'd moved out of my parents house. I was living with a girlfriend town over and uh, doing dumb shit for money. My dad showed up one day and said hey, the family's moving to england. I said cool, you know where I'm at, send me a postcard. Yeah, he goes. No, I said the family's going to england. Get your shit, you're coming. So at the age of 16, I moved to england and uh had to fight every day in england because I was american.
Speaker 1:Who are you fighting hooligans? Yeah, the english. They did not like us, we were not welcome, we, you know, and this kind of like really kind of solidified any kind of patriotism that I had or have. It's just being over there and dealing with everyone and it's a societal change. Everything Over there they deal with the class system we don't deal with. We don't even think about Now the way I was raised.
Speaker 1:I'm walking down the street, see a little old lady pulling her groceries down the road. I'm going to make eye contact. I'm going to smile, say good morning, morning, how you doing, keep pushing. Absolutely you do that in england and they look at you like you tried to grab them. Why they're not used to it. They don't, they don't like that. It's too in your face. But being over there, seeing their scene over there because that's where the whole scene started, absolutely so I get over there. My first day of school I got to take a train out to this English town and when I step off the train I look over and there's this pub called Flint Cottage Okay, and nothing but dudes that look like me standing out front. So before I go to school I'm going to go have a pint.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So I walk in and you know everyone's kind of staring at me. I got the same jacket on, I got the same boots, I got the same shaved head, you know like looking like derrick vineyard dude, and we'll get to that. And then, uh, as soon as I said, hey, do you guys got budweiser? It was like you know the proverbial record scratch. Everyone stopped, looked at me and they're like you're a yank, aren't you? And I was like yeah, and so they just made it very apparent like you ain't welcome here drinking beer and kick rocks so you think it might have been the choice in beer bud weiser bud weiser, my, my voice, you know everything.
Speaker 1:You know just a simple fact of like, they knew everyone in the neighborhood and I wasn't one of them. So who was I? And then all of a sudden I'm like, hey, you got some Budweiser. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:It's a good story, bro. That's hilarious. What are the chances? You know Exactly?
Speaker 1:It is a learning lesson. So then you drank, and then you bounced, drank and bounced went to school showing up smelling like beer. How long were you in england?
Speaker 2:for two years from the time I was 16 till I was 18. So damn, dude, damn so, were you on your off time. What were you doing? Who were you hanging out with? Were you attempting to get off time? What were you doing? Who were you hanging out with? Were you attempting to get back into that scene or stay in the scene?
Speaker 1:No, no, and I grew up as a skater too. You did yeah. So I was like a little skater pong, just doing your thing, just doing my thing. As far as over there in England I didn't hang out too much, I didn't do anything.
Speaker 2:When did you start getting your ink, dude England? England is when you started to get your ink. Yeah, how did that play out?
Speaker 1:So in England, and I didn't understand about this in the beginning, but over in England it's just normal for people to have ink. Okay, it's just normal for people to have ink. Okay, it's. It's not so much of this crazy like, oh, you're a sailor or a convict or what, no, it's just normal people have ink over there. So I started getting ink over there.
Speaker 1:Uh, you know, not understanding the part about the pics and understanding that when the romans showed up to britain, everyone was tattooed and that's why they called them pics. So it's just a very normal, ancestral thing. Okay, tattoos in the british isles. I didn't know that. So me getting tattoos isn't outside the norm, and over there everyone had them, like I said. So I started over there and I remember the first tattoo I got. The guy had the English roses on his earlobes, he had his face done, he was completely covered in ink and I'm just getting this one on my calf and I'm thinking to myself like how could someone do? You know, why would someone do this to themselves? Yeah, but here I am 30 years later looking just like him, you know.
Speaker 2:But it's a progress. It's a progression, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:And you know, I remember when I first got busted and I got my throat done, now I showed up with I showed up to prison with a bunch of being you did oh, yeah. So you know, when I got my throat done and my dad was like what the fuck are you doing, dude? You know, like you're gonna get out someday, you're gonna da, da, da, da. So then fast forward 17 years. I'm about to get out. I'm already starting to think about, from the neck up and then down, getting my my ink taken off, yeah. And my dad was like, yeah, you guys, you should see some of the people out here now. Facts, you look normal.
Speaker 2:Facts, yeah, so before we jump way ahead. You mentioned to me in the elevator that you actually came out in the movie american history x oh, and I wasn't on film, but that whole scene but that whole scene, yeah, was that like the punk rock scene, like the, the band playing punk rock, skinhead, skinhead, skinhead, absolutely 100. Yeah, now can you tell us again, or the crowd like, how that played out, where you were at, how you played part of a band?
Speaker 1:so we had a band back in the day, yeah and uh, you know, just coming up with music, doing our thing, we couldn't find a drummer or a bassist. So the singer of our band he was more social, he knew, he knew more people. He actually was talking to someone that had a band already established. Uh, they were already in the scene, well known, and everything, um, and they said, hey, why don't you come out and, uh, play with us, bring you, bring your stuff. And said hey, why don't you come out and play with us, bring your stuff, and we'll just set up and see what we can make of it. So the first time we did it, you know they have two bands made out of one band, right, so one band will get up and they'll play their set and then the singer and the bassist will switch and they'll do like punk rock and like play similar music. So they do that, we get up, we start playing our stuff. It sounds the best it's ever sounded. It was amazing, it was fun, we had a blast. We kept doing that. Over the next few months we had done it a few times and we got a call from from the singer guy and he said, hey, uh, we're gonna do a documentary for bbc and we want you to play because we're all gonna get paid for it. It's like no right, because you know, this is a time when geraldo was getting beat up, jerry Springer was a thing. We're not doing tv anything, okay, we're not, uh. So he, he explained to us hey, listen, uh, we're gonna get paid for playing and then we're gonna get paid for you playing, so we'll see you there, and so you know whatever. So you know we showed. So you know whatever. So you know we showed up and you know everything was the same. It was the same spot, the same everything the barn scene, no, no, no. So we're in a studio. We're in a studio where this band keeps all their stuff and then practices.
Speaker 1:Well, we come into the the studio, and there's three people an older dude, a younger guy and a chick. And uh, I don't watch tv, I don't watch movies, so I didn't understand. But this chick is famous, she's an actress, she plays the girlfriend in the movie. I think her name's Farooza Balk or something, and so they all see her, they all know her. So everyone's acting like little kids.
Speaker 1:So the guy with the camera disappears, comes back 20 minutes later with a dolly of beer, sets it in the middle and then everyone starts drinking and within 20 minutes, you know, I've got someone on my shoulders going through the pit. Okay, you know, everyone's having fun. Well, it got to our point to play. So we get up there, we set up and we're playing. As we're playing, our singer has the bust of adolf hitler tattooed on his on his stomach. Well, the camera guy keeps getting super close to our singer and our singer, you know, he's singing, he's in the mood, he's doing, he's in the mood, he's doing it, he's right. So when this guy comes too close, kevin grabs his knife and stabs the camera. Okay, they freak out, they take off, they're scared, they took off. Oh yeah, they're like, oh no, they packed everything up and just gone, these, you know. So, whatever they left, we threw beer bottles at them, fun times were had.
Speaker 1:But then, you know, months go by, well, a couple weeks go by. I get a check. You got a check, you got paid, I got paid for this, okay, so I'm tripping, I'm tripping and I'm like you know, I don't know, I don't know. So I hold on to the check for a couple weeks, yeah, and then I go cash it, and the day I cash it I get a phone call. Phone call saying, hey, would you like to come speak on camera and tell us, you know? And I'm like, fuck you, I don't know who you think this is. Don't ever call this number again, I don't know you right, like uh-uh, uh, so anyways, that that was that right. And then, you know, years go by and we're kind of like I wonder whatever happened with that documentary. Yeah well, american history x comes out and everyone's like, oh, you gotta see it, I don't want to see it, you know that was my life.
Speaker 1:Like I don.
Speaker 2:I don't.
Speaker 1:So no, they were like nah, your neighborhood, kevin's in it.
Speaker 2:Kevin is the one with the Hitler tattoo on his stomach On his stomach In the film. Did it show that? Did it show Kevin? Yeah, wow, dude, because I know which one you're talking about now.
Speaker 1:So, yeah. So when the brother goes to the party Yep, they're showing the pit. They're showing lots of action shots, yep, one of those action shots is Kevin, and you can see from the neck down he's singing, he's got the tattoo and everything.
Speaker 2:Now, yeah, okay, I was a CO at Centinella State Prison. I used to observe tattoos to kind of try to figure out what they meant or what they belonged to. Does that one have a particular like, reference or meaning?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's basically fuck you. To Anyone Say something Right, right, like that was the whole point, right Of getting those tattoos Like bam here I am, what's up fuck.
Speaker 2:So yeah, uh, since we're on the topic of tattoos, and before we move forward, what about the ss bolts? What about, would you say? There's a particular thing you have to do to have them filled in in prison.
Speaker 1:So, you know, and that's the whole thing. It's like the SS bolts. For me that's a touchy subject because I'm spiritual. Yes, and so those are runes that Hitler used. Those are runes that Hitler used.
Speaker 1:These are spiritual signal signs that have gone back thousands of years. So, yeah, I hate the whole idea that these symbols have been corrupted by people thinking that Hitler used them and so on and so forth. So now they are only assigned that meaning. You know what I mean. Yeah, so as far as all that, what you get earned, I don't we're good on that. I don't give a fuck about any of that. You don't Never, did you?
Speaker 2:didn't. No, you believed in something. Oh no, I mean.
Speaker 1:You believed in something all the way. So you know there is a separation between prison and groups and groups on the street. So you know there's a lot of times where in prison I'd run into people and talk to them and they'd say, oh, you're a real one.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's like, yeah, yes.
Speaker 1:I'm not here looking for protection. I'm not here trying to be a part of you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. No, this is what I did on the street. This is what I'm about that's a fresh breath there.
Speaker 2:Why, I don't know. I like real ones, man, and that's knowledge to me. Because, I'll be honest with you, bro, I don't have the fucking experience of or the understanding of how that worked. You asked me not to sound ignorant.
Speaker 1:I thought they were all the same shit right, but you're, you know there's there's different groups, there's different people and you know it comes down to you know the, the person you are, the type of person you are. I remember ironwood. Ironwood, uh, I was on. I was on a yard and had a buddy of mine that was on D yard, okay, trying to get me into the college program. So after a while, one night, I get called down to the podium and the cop looks at me, the CO, and it's like you in college. So I looked at him, I go trying to be, and he goes. And I hadn't even heard from my friend. So like I don't know, yeah, he's like, all right, go pack your stuff. You're heading to d yard. Like fuck, yeah, you finally get to start college. You know, start, start going down that path.
Speaker 1:When I got over there my buddy was like what are you doing, dude? I go. What do you mean? He goes. I've been trying to get you over here for like a year. He goes. Those cops wouldn't let you go. What do you mean? He goes? They said you had everyone over there on. Uh, like behaving yeah and yeah, but that that's not because of any like prison, anything, correct, you know I was, I was stuck. I was stuck in a vocation that was a go nowhere vocation. It was a print shop let me ask you this.
Speaker 2:So I'm assuming, in this story you just told you were not in a position of authority. No, uh, let me ask you this was there told you were not in a position of authority? No, let me ask you this Was there another individual in a position of authority? Yeah, okay, yeah, and I kind of gathered that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know, first term Right. First term I'm a first term, correct, so it was one term Right. So you know, I'm in a vocation. That's a go nowhere vocation. It's the print shop Okay, it's none of the printers work. So all of us have done all the book work, but until the printers get fixed we can't pass the class. We're just stuck.
Speaker 1:So it's me and a few other dudes. We start making paper airplanes because we're there with reams of paper. Start making paper airplanes because we're there with reams of paper, right. So then we ended up in like this little like prison mit aerodynamics kind of thing, to where we had the big fans, we had staples, we pulled out the you know from our boxers and we would tie the planes up to the fans and we would, you know, tweak the wings, the wings to see how they would fly better. Well then we'd all hit the yard at night and there'd be like seven or eight skinheads running around on the yard throwing paper airplanes. I mean, think about that. Yeah, I don't know how we weren't piss-tested right, but we're just all out there throwing paper airplanes, watching them land, go, pick them up, throw them again I've never seen inmates throw paper airplanes.
Speaker 2:What was the reaction of the other races? And or seals? Just support, just watching entertainment.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's what I would imagine. Well, and that's why they wouldn't let me go. Yeah, I've got everyone on the on the yard playing with paper airplanes. Yeah, instead of stabbing everyone, that's way fucking better bro, that's way better.
Speaker 2:Talk to me about your commitment, uh, your crime of commitment voluntary murder, I mean voluntary manslaughter in In the year 2000.
Speaker 1:Was this as a result of everything you were caught up in? This was kind of like no, it was an accident. It borders on what I was caught up in, but it was also one of those things, to where I'm moving from LA County back down to Orange County, and there's a group of individuals in this neighborhood that I had stayed away from for months, but just because we lived so close to one another, we ended up getting in contact, talking me, trying to explain to them from an older person's perspective, like, hey, this road you're going down, not the one, there's different things to do, blah, blah, blah. So I had built a relationship with these guys. So I'm leaving, right, I'm heading back down to Orange County. Well, I'm going to go say goodbye to these guys. So I go say goodbye. There's a party, there's no more beer left. So I'm like, hey, I'm going to run up to the Albertsons real quick, grab some beer, I'll be right back. They're like, hey, can we come with? Let's go On the way to the store run into two dudes, one of them I know from work, the other one I didn't know.
Speaker 1:Words were said, fight started and one of those dudes didn't survive. The other one did, and that was that. Were there weapons involved?
Speaker 2:no, was there enhancements added to your sentence?
Speaker 1:so they came at me after a year in LA County Jail. They came at me with 20 years. I was looking at 25 to life. You know back then that L. It didn't matter what number was before the L, if you had the L you're screwed.
Speaker 2:So that 20,. They offered you with an L. No, okay, no, that was with a date. So you had the L. You're screwed.
Speaker 1:So that 20 they offered you. Was it with an L? No, okay. No, it was with a date. So I was like all right. So I went back to my cell and there was a Christian essay that you know me and him were like friends and I respected his get down. You know he was an intelligent person and I came back to him and laid everything out and said look, this is what they're giving me, because he had even told me he goes listen, if they ever come at you with a deal, he goes. There's 100 motherfuckers on the yard that are on the yard right now doing life that were given a deal, that never took the deal. Fuck that. Wish they freaking had, wow. So I'm like, okay.
Speaker 1:So I go to court. And this is all while 9-11 is happening. Right, that screwed me. So I go to court. They give me 20 years. So I go to court, they give me 20 years. I explain it to this guy and he says get the gang enhancement dropped. Get the gang enhancement dropped, because that's going to affect where they send you. I was like all right. So the next time I went to court I told them I'll take your 20 years but drop, drop the gang enhancement. So they figured some stuff out. You know pencil whip and everything american judicial system.
Speaker 2:I don't know how the fuck you're going to take off the enhancement but still keep the 20 years. But they just well, so so that.
Speaker 1:So that's what that's. What happened is I ended up with voluntary manslaughter, assault with a deadly weapon, use of a weapon during a felony hate crime. Being white another five years, well, hate crime Right. Both victims were white, both victims were white.
Speaker 2:Yeah, un-fucking-believable. I mean, they had to do what they had to do to drop the enhancement.
Speaker 1:Right, and I mean, that's what it comes down to. They ended up giving me 19 years.
Speaker 2:It kind of sounds ridiculous. They dropped the gang enhancement but they had a hate crime. It kind of sounds typical.
Speaker 1:You know, it's one of those things, and the thing was they pencil, whip everything and they're like all we can come up with is 19 years and I'm like perfect, even better, did you steal anything in the process?
Speaker 2:motherfucker, Did you shoplift? We'll give you that one more year. Make it an even 20.
Speaker 1:So I told them, I said look, that's perfect, that's fine. And they go no, you're not walking out of this courtroom without 20 years. Jesus Christ, dude. So they were like well, listen, you've been in the county for a year. Give that time up, Fuck, and we'll give you the 19 years.
Speaker 2:Fuck, bro, from your experience, where is this shit coming from? From within them? Like ego, like a judicial standpoint?
Speaker 1:It's not even that, though they have a program, they have a program like a judicial standpoint, like this. It's not even that, though it's it's they have. They have a program. They have a program they need. This person is going to prison or jail we don't know how, but but this is what the program is. Okay, I need to get you inside for 20 years, for 20 years into a concrete box so your space can make us money.
Speaker 2:I hear you I hear you, you know, absolutely dude, this is fucking wild.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, dude, it's, you know, and it's. It's that sense of duty, it's that sense of you know, I'm, I'm a da, I've got a. You know I'm going to fix the system, I'm going to clean up the streets, but here's the thing is, you're going to lunch with my public pretender and figuring out who you're going to let go and who you're going to keep, and all this, and people don't understand that. Was it one strike or two?
Speaker 2:strikes. Did they give you Two? What was the second?
Speaker 1:one for Assault with a deadly weapon. A voluntary manslaughter and assault with a deadly weapon, the GBI, hate crime and use of a weapon during a felony were all enhancements.
Speaker 2:What did they consider was a weapon? Boots.
Speaker 1:This is a lot dude.
Speaker 2:It's a lot, man, and this is a lot for me to just sit here and hear you, dude, imagine, you know, and I mean we accept accountability on this show and in reality. But it's just a lot because, like you said, nothing was cut and dry, nothing was straightforward. It was all like Mickey Mouse rigged and shit Just to get the point across.
Speaker 1:What point, though? You know? The system, the machine.
Speaker 2:The machine has to function man Exactly, so fuck it the system, the machine. The machine has to function man Exactly, so fuck it, dude.
Speaker 1:You took the deal, took the deal. Took the deal because, like I said at that time, it didn't matter what was before the L. If you have an L, you will never see the streets again. That's a fact. Dude Enough said Right, you have seven in life, you ain't going home. No, dude enough said right, you have seven in life, you ain't going home. No, and I mean, I, you know I did. I did time with a dude that had seven in life, right, his name was, uh, joe, and he was rad, you know, and he was a great dude and and he he even got to the point where he started to slow down and try to be better for bored because he wanted to get out one day, you know, and yeah, that dude was rad, did he get out?
Speaker 1:I don't know, you don't know, I don't know. But you know I'm in Pelican Bay right, working in the main kitchen and I'm a cart wash right, so I'm just washing the carts. It's a dumb job, I hate it, it's just dumb. So at one point one of my friends comes over and says like hey, the guy that was working with old man Joe just went to the hole. It's a prep cook position. You want it?
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I was like, fuck, yeah. So they started talking to the sergeant, the ceos and stuff, and so the sergeant pulls me in and says, like I want to talk to you for a sec. He goes, uh, you want that position in there, yeah. And I was like, yeah, he goes. Well, uh, uh, you know, you're gonna be in there with with joe. And he's got a knife right and I'm like, yeah, he goes, it's, it's tethered to a table. But you sure, now I'm starting to trip. I'm like no, I mean, yeah, we're, I'm going in, we're not gonna not go in. But now I'm in my head kind of like why, what the?
Speaker 1:So I get in there and Joe's a great dude and I remember one time trying to explain to him dude, I keep writing my people and trying to explain my life and I can't. It never comes out right. And he said, think about it, think about trying to explain a circus to someone who had never seen a circus, flying trapeze, someone with their head in a lion's mouth. Like, unless you've seen it, there's no way you're going to be able to explain it to anyone. I was like that's true, you know.
Speaker 1:And so I noticed that the CEOsos all gave joe a lot of respect and weird respect, like they would joke with them. So I'd ask them like what's your deal? Yeah, you know why are you here? What's going on? The only thing I could ever get out of him was fuck my crimeys. They're all idiots, they're all rats, piece of shit, fuck those, blah, blah, blah. So I was like, oh okay, you know, we all, we all feel that way, I guess. But whatever, um, I transferred from pelican bay down to ironwood. Now joe used to tell me all the time like look, kid, I got 115s older than you, right? Well, I get down to Ironwood. I turn on PBS and they're doing a documentary on the SLA, the Semenese Liberation Army. That was Joe. Joe and his buddy went and killed a professor at Berkeley, so his whole crew, the SLA, went and kidnapped Patty Hearst to get Joe out of prison. Wow, it didn't work. You know the whole Patty Hearst story.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah it's crazy. Is that where you started your sentence in Pelican Bay?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Jesus, Get the gang enhancement dropped so it doesn't affect where I go. Huh 2000.
Speaker 2:2000. Was 2000 the big ride in the Bay?
Speaker 1:2000,. Yeah, so when I got there, got there in december of 2001 and I spent the next two years on lockdown, what yard were you on?
Speaker 2:a yard what is that? Level 4, 180 vp lockdown? Let's take a walk down memory lane, bro. Let's take a. Let's uh remember when lockdowns used to be lockdowns man, because, I'll be honest, there is no more lockdowns. Used to be lockdowns man, because, I'll be honest, there is no more lockdowns. I don't care what people try to tell me. There's no more lockdowns Like the ones that you experienced. What was your daily routine like? Like with the cops coming in self-feeding from the morning?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, what was your routine like?
Speaker 1:You know, wake up at 6, you know, come around, rack the doors. No, doors are really getting open, uh, but rack the doors, uh, you know, they come around, they open up the tray slots, shove your food in, eat your food, you know, stick it back in the tray slot. Uh, you know. You clean your house, you, you, you know, uh, work out, you read, you draw, you write, you watch tv. I didn't even have a tv for like the first year.
Speaker 1:Did you have a celly? Yeah, my celly ended up getting me a tv because I wouldn't get. I don't watch tv, I don't like tv, I don't like movies, I don't like watching stuff. It's annoying. So, but he was like, you know, look, you're doing 20 years, dude, you need a freaking tv, right? So he ended up getting me a tv, um, from someone that paroled, they just left it to me. But, yeah, you know, you don't. What's your program? Nothing. You're in a cell. So you get, you know, side yard every 10 days. What is that? A little concrete yard on the side the one part of this lockdown was well, yeah, so this was a big lockdown.
Speaker 1:I mean, this was the whole facility, was 100, right? So I'm on a yard. One and two are ad seg, three is fish row and g, and then three, four, five and six lockdown. Seven and eight are the programmer buildings because they're running the kitchen and so on, and so forth. The PIA is up there. They got the eyeglass and the shoe PIA. So you know that's going on, but, like you know, we're just on lockdown.
Speaker 2:We're just what did your medical appointments look like, and or I mean, would they come and escort you, strip you out?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, you got to strip out. Do the whole naked hokey pokey in your cell, give them all your clothes, they'll hand them back. You put them back on Handcuff, escorted to medical In restraints yeah, there'd be times where we'd go to showers like that. Depending upon Just to get to the shower, you've got to get cuffed up, get taken, get locked in the shower, get uncuffed. Were you birdbathing in the cell? Yeah, uncuffed. Were you birdbathing in the cell? Yeah, of course. I'm not going to wait until you guys decide to get to me, you know, and just sit here stinky and sweaty.
Speaker 2:Right Now, the workouts in the cell. Man, you're a big dude. We're in a society now, man, where people have a lot of money and have access to any gym they want, right, but yet they refuse to go to a gym and or work out. What type of exercises were you doing, man?
Speaker 1:you know, you hang off the end of the bed, bring your legs up, do pull-ups off the end of the bed and you've got back arms off the desk. The desk push-ups, water bags, depending on your celly your celly could be a part of the whole program. Get on my back. I'm doing push-ups, whatever. Yeah, just everything in the cell. Then you try to switch it up. Yeah, just everything in the cell, you know. Then you try to switch it up. You know you got to. Okay, I'm going to. You know six-count burpees and eight-count burpees. I'm going to do Navy SEALs. I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that, you know, just trying to keep it interesting.
Speaker 2:Do you feel that it was effective to maintain physical fitness? Yeah, at that time, yeah, were you training for war?
Speaker 1:No, no, no Training to keep my head straight.
Speaker 2:Okay, and I say that because I've been observed lockdowns where they were definitely training for war. I mean Different races in the cell and you can tell it was on and cracking.
Speaker 1:I remember in the county there used to be this dude. We used to call him, uh, high power because you know he was one of those dudes that would. He was a jaycat and he'd get all lubed up and ready for war and blah, blah, blah and like that. Like you know, I've been to war in there. You had no in there, so prison-wise like not war, like you've been in no, no, no in prison, but in prison yeah, riot shit like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I don't care, none of that stuff you're doing is going to do anything. You know, like the whole, you know when it pops it's going to pop.
Speaker 2:Did it when you were there? Did it get off when you were in Pelican Bay? No, when were you involved in these riots? Ironwood? What year-ish was this 2005. Was it other races involved? Yeah, who was it?
Speaker 1:The South Sliders. What were the numbers? Like like 60 to 200 and something. Was it planned or spontaneous? Spontaneous or was it planned? It was. So we're 2005. Right, they outlawed tobacco july 1st 2005, so june 14th, 15th. I stopped smoking because I want my head straight before they do this. Right, july 15, 2005, just one of those things. To where it was a it was a dope debt. It got paid, but it wasn't paid. They the way he wanted it paid and so they got off. Well, you know, at first it's like who's so-and-so beating up Because they're both white, right. But then all of a sudden they flip over and you see this tattoo across the back of this dude's head. That ain't a white boy. And, as we realize, everyone realizes and the whole yard just starts moving.
Speaker 2:Do you recall where you were on the yard?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I was right there next to the chow hall.
Speaker 2:And where did this kick off, this little?
Speaker 1:tussling, you saw. So in front of five, so in front of Ad Seg right, it jumped off. That's where the two dudes were fighting. And then from the uh, the a yard yeah, okay. So from the basketball court you see everything start to all the white boys were, you know, get against the wall, right. But me, I like I go out into the weight pile because there's whites that are left out there that are getting jumped on, so I go out there. You know it's like midget tossing right.
Speaker 1:I'm just tossing dudes left and right, telling dudes get back to the wall, telling dudes get back to the wall. Um, I'm hearing a lot of uh yelling, but I haven't heard the clack yet. Right, so we're still going. And, um, I'm hearing the yelling but I can't. I'm it's not anything to do with me, but I see this wave come out of nowhere. So I'm just going to town.
Speaker 1:Um, eventually they got me on the ground, um, and you know, I sat there covered up, you know, covered, my face kind of balled up a little bit. Let them do their thing. But they kept going and I got pissed and grabbed. One dragged him to the ground and just started pummeling his face through the ground. Well, the other ones ran off.
Speaker 1:I let this guy go, he takes off, I get up, realize everyone's down, but there's like a CO that's like right next to me by the name of Lopez. So you know, know, right ends, but I mean, it's one of those things where it's like, you know, the it's the yard, then it's one block, and then it's the gym, and then it's the library, now it's four block and ding, ding. So yeah, yeah, but the funny thing is we finally get to the hole. And when we get to the hole, ad segs on our yard. This is a yard ironwood, so we've we've got the ad seg. So, uh, we're in our cell and the ceos keep stopping by and they're like, hey, okay, you good. And I'm like yeah, they would push. Look at my cell. He's like what was that about? That's weird. He's like, yeah, so then shift change happens and the two ces from my building come over Interesting and they're like you good? And I'm like yeah, and they're like all right you know, let us know if you need anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, whatever, dude, right. So I, I jumped down and I get down to the door and I like they're not stopping by anyone else's cell. What the fuck. So the next day I go before the captain, right. So they come, they escort me, sit me down and Captain Howell, I'll never forget that dude. Captain Howell says how many Hispanics were you fighting yesterday? I said none. He goes. Yeah, he goes. My officers count as 16. No, it wasn't me. He goes, yeah. So he looks at the officer and he goes, what do you think?
Speaker 1:And the CO looks at me and he goes oh, he's a big old boy, I'd get my homeboys all right, he goes. Well, he goes. Uh, turns out that yelling that I heard. That was officer lopez running out onto the yard when they were trying to shoot someone. Officer Lopez messed up their shot, so they're yelling at Lopez get off the yard. Lopez turns around, sees this wave of Hispanics coming at him and then, out of nowhere, here comes inmateado Cain. So the captain told me he goes. You saved my officer. He goes. I think you're right. You weren't fighting anyone yesterday.
Speaker 2:Damn, let him go. So RVR 115 got dismissed. Yeah, dude, that's a trip man. You know what's crazy is. You're telling me this story. I'm like reflecting, like to the present time. You know that big melee that you just described. You know that now you, if you're an enemy, you won't go to the hole, you just go back to the pad. That's where we're at now in CDCR 2025. What's your take on that? Do you believe people should go to AdSeg after a big, giant riot like that?
Speaker 1:That riot? No, why, it was just one of those things. It was one of those things to where.
Speaker 2:When the cops are using force. And now you got to write reports and it's an incident.
Speaker 1:I know, but that's all CDCR policy right there, because force was used, or because we used OC spray, because this was done, now we have to do this, blah, blah, blah, so on and so forth. This was done, now we have to do this, blah, blah, blah, so on and so forth. But I mean, here's the thing, though, is that, like in that situation, you got two groups, the whites and the southerners right, for the most part, get along correct. Dude was paid, just didn't like what he got paid, so he uh, you know, took off on the white boy.
Speaker 1:Okay now at the end of the day the whole thing got squashed. It was what it was right um did you guys ever run it back?
Speaker 2:did they yard ever run it back?
Speaker 1:no, no, because it it was dumb. It was dumb. Dude got paid. Dude didn't like it, bah, bah, bah. So you know, at the end of the day, when you're dealing with 500 men's lives and their dates, what is more important that 50 bucks or everyone going home? Did you go back to the same yard or did they kick you out of the other yard? Went to the same yard. Did you go back to the same yard or did they kick you out of the other yard? Went to the same yard? As soon as they kicked me out well, at first they kicked me out into a white South Sider cell, into a white South Sider cell, right. So as I walk into the building, that dude was like no, no, no, no, no. So then they had to send me back to the hole. Damn Yep, back to the hole.
Speaker 2:Well, that doesn't make sense. We'd have to do a whole new ASU placement notice to put you back in the hole. I mean what? I guess no available housing there's no available housing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which didn't really make sense because there's 60 of us in the hole right now. It's got to be, you know CDC and their dumb ass yeah, bro, no, I hear you.
Speaker 1:But yeah, so they. They ended up sending me back to the hole. I did a couple more days in the hole and as soon as I was released I was walking to uh, building three and uh, my name's already over the loudspeaker. You know inmate okay, and report to program office, blah, blah, blah. So as I'm heading over, lopez is already walking across the yard and he's like where do you want to work, dude?
Speaker 2:Damn dude. Let me ask you this, though, because I know how prison works Were you getting any backlash from your people from the narrative that was being spun that you helped out a cop? No, Were they aware that that narrative was being spun? I don't think so. No, it was just like the cops were just like hey, dude, good looking out.
Speaker 1:I mean they must have known on some level, because how the hell am I just going to get out of the hole?
Speaker 1:Like that would look janky, right, but yeah, they knew I mean here, right, but, um, yeah, they knew, I mean here's the thing, I wasn't saving the cop, you know. Like that wasn't the whole get down, I just saw a bunch of dudes and I wasn't gonna be the one. So you know, it is what it is, um, but yeah, and, and lopez was super cool, he was like you know, which was good because, like I said, I was in that vocation, that was going nowhere, okay, and so now I told him main kitchen, and he put me in the main kitchen.
Speaker 2:Were there audio video surveillance? Were there video footage of the riot Fuck, no, no.
Speaker 1:No, this was back in 2005. Okay, y'all were fighting that for a long time. Yeah, it's like how are you going to get your naps in 100%?
Speaker 2:Naps are important Exactly. You got to be aware and you got to be well-rested to fight crime.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sometimes we need the phone though. Right, and you're in the tower in control of the phone.
Speaker 2:True, true, and you're in the tower in control of the phone, True, true, and we're trying to wake you up. Yeah, I mean, you could always flip the switch and leave them on. No, that, yeah. So fuck, dude. 2000 to 2017. This was in 05. This was in 05. Did you stay at Ironwood or did you go somewhere else?
Speaker 1:I stayed in Ironwood. Well, I stayed in Ironwood for another year or so and then ended up getting sent out of state.
Speaker 2:Oh shit, I forgot about the out-of-state stores. You were level three, yep, the way they pitched the idea to you. Did the captain come up to you in AW, or was there a committee telling you?
Speaker 1:There was a committee it was a weird committee. We were on lockdown. There was a committee it was a weird committee we were on lockdown. There was a staff assault, so they were being dicks to us and so this committee was actually on a different yard. You had to go to B yard to go to this committee and I was like this is weird. But yeah, we ended up going over there and then, uh, next thing you know we're, we're on a bus going to wasco, spent a week in wasco and then we're getting taken out to the airport. Airport straight con air. No way, dude, way dude who was there?
Speaker 2:state corrections officer, whether did you see any type of federal law enforcement or county local? I mean there were that there was.
Speaker 1:There was some corrections officer. Did you see any type of federal law enforcement or county local? I mean, there was some county out there. You know dudes with the shotguns on the tarmac and we're all getting, you know, escorted onto the plane.
Speaker 2:Were you shackled like this, and in the waist and in the feet?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there was three of us shackled together and you know.
Speaker 2:What kind of plane was it? I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I was so stressed out, I was so stressed out at this point, you know, because, like I'm getting onto a plane, I haven't been on a plane in a while. I've been on many planes. It doesn't worry me, but the guy next to me has never been on a plane, has never been outside the state, has never traveled, and is tripping the fuck out and so listen to him the whole time so you land where?
Speaker 2:what state? Tennessee, tennessee. You get bused, vanned car to a prison yep, yep. What type of prison when you get to gather the information, what type of prison it's a prison facility.
Speaker 1:Let's say it's just a big hallway and I don't know. You know we're similar in age, but I don't know if you remember that show Get Smart.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, I remember I don't think I ever watched it, but I know the show.
Speaker 1:They got all these crash gates that open. That's what this place is like. It's just a long L-shaped corridor with crash gates. Sales, no, yeah, yeah, sales. So you've got the pods that are on. You know, all the way down You've got Vermont, California and Tennessee. This was a federal detention facility. So everyone there was feds. The local people were all fighting federal cases. Did they mix you with those individuals? No, no, To a certain degree. So like in the kitchen in jobs they would. To a certain degree, so like in the kitchen in jobs, they would. But at first we were programming with Vermont but then they squashed that. We don't play well with others. Was there an incident or numerous incidents, Numerous, numerous incidents? So they hang out with their chumos and rapists and stuff. We're not cool with that. So we started smashing them.
Speaker 2:Oh fuck, dude, Do you ever watch other states' prison systems? And you're right, sometimes they allow them to be there. But another weird thing is you'll watch people give a testimony of when they were in prison. They're like, yeah, I found out this guy was a chomo and I just started taxing him for like canteen. It's like you just taxed him. Huh, just taxed him, yeah, because you know in California they're going to hurt the motherfucker. Oh, they're going to kill him, correct? Do you find that to be odd, that they're able to just coincide with those dudes?
Speaker 1:well, yeah, I mean, is that what was stemming this? I you know, look, and and that's the thing about prison, it's like a lot of us are there for for dumb stuff. You know, I beat someone to death, you got people robbing and stealing, but you know, when it comes to stuff like that, you know we've all got moms Zero tolerance. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Zero tolerance. Uh-uh, wow, very interesting. Now, these guards, whatever they were, what were they Like? Security guards, barry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, basically, basically, like you, you know, got their guard card and like showed up to work, like it's. It was very different. It's very different. This, this, I don't. I don't know how many people feel the same, but like, every once in a while we've seen those green suits, real ceos. You know, california would come out to do inspections or check things out or whatever, and just to see normal ceos.
Speaker 2:It's relatively nice would it give you a sense of security? Oh yeah, knowing like hey, knowing like hey, if they are here, they will save us per se. You know what I mean In the violent situation. They're good at quelling violence, oklahoma.
Speaker 1:Oklahoma, I think, 2011. Five and a half hour riot. See what I mean. The CEO that worked our building sprayed until he couldn't spray anymore, started using his spray to hit people on the head and then finally gave up and left, at which point like it was just mayhem in the pod for hours. You know, you've got one group in the day room. They go down, they take a, a break, they're getting water. A couple of them are doing dips, getting ready. You've got the other group. They've got the top tier. So they've got, you know, baby oil on the tier and, and you know, they're up there, you know, cleaning their wounds and doing whatever.
Speaker 1:And and it was, it was crazy. And then you know, like from our pod, there were no whites involved, right in which one, the oklahoma. Yeah, when we, when this riot jumped off, they told us it was an emergency count, which is pretty normal for this place. Emergency count locked down. Blah, blah, we'll let you guys out in a minute. I had just gotten my hair cut, just taking a shower, got into the cell, close the cell, I'm putting the Murray's in my hair and I'm looking and everyone's running all over the place and I'm like that's weird. So I go to the door and all of a sudden this dude shows up, who's got the, got the billing for the essays. And he's like, hey, pop, he's all fucked up, dude. And he throws his phone under the door. He's like, hey, under your door. Yeah, hold on to this. And I look and it's just mayhem out there. Who are they getting awful with the blacks? And the ss am dude. So you know.
Speaker 1:But just like in most pens, I'm a white boy. I work in the kitchen. So at 10 o'clock at night, when we would do our, our kitchen run, uh, you know, I'm all dressed, waiting to go. They come by, they just keep on walking. I was like, oh fuck. So the next time they come by for count, I'm like, hey, what's up with the workers? And he looks at me and he goes oh, you guys ain't coming off anytime soon. So fast forward two and a half months later and finally get back into the kitchen. There is still blood splatters, no fucking way, all over the ceiling, oh yeah, the whole place. For like weeks all we got were the peanut butter packets and boiled eggs, because they think the cops were fucking putting them together. Yeah, oh yeah, because they couldn't use the kitchen. The kitchen was a crime scene. There was blood everywhere. The whole riot jumped off in the chow hall. Damn dude, that's bad.
Speaker 1:So then, good, oh yeah, and it was everyone versus the blacks. You know, if anybody died in that one Supposedly yes there was a younger black dude that got a microwave to his head over and over and they would wake him up. And when he started to act like he was coming to they'd oh damn dude.
Speaker 2:Do you believe that the Oklahoma guards were not prepared for that?
Speaker 1:I know they weren't. Yeah, they didn't know what to do and they were shell-shocked after that. It was just like in Tennessee. I mean, you know, we had a riot in Tennessee and that was hilarious because the staff came in like they were about something and when it jumped, that same staff was about running out the front door. You know they weren't going to do nothing.
Speaker 2:Would you agree that reasonable force from a correctional officer's perspective is necessary to keep, control and quell violence in a California state prison?
Speaker 1:In the system that we're in.
Speaker 2:You would agree, because somewhere along the line as a country, even the police we've gone away from that through public outcry, protests, frivolous allegations, bad cops fucking up, excessive use of force.
Speaker 1:So yeah, You'll understand this. There's times where violence is the only thing that keeps a stupid motherfucker from doing stupid stuff bro, that's my mantra, you know, that's my mantra. I'm not a huge fan of violence. I'm not I don't you know, but at the end of the day, when you can't act right and you're not smart enough to do the correct thing, then maybe a piece needs to get run up in you and you'll rethink it.
Speaker 2:Ooh, let's talk about that man. I was in a Sentinela state prison level four Charlie yard GP killers. In Centinella State Prison level four charliard GP killers there was a white guy that hit the yard Overweight, long hair, scraggly, looking, probably homeless, type-ish you 2009. The whites there gave him the opportunity to clean up his act. He failed to listen to the first advice and on the second time they hit him right here in the throat. Does that surprise you? Yeah, it does. Surprise you? Yeah, it does surprise you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, why? Well, I mean, what do you mean? He was like, so he's unkept.
Speaker 2:That's the structure that those whites on that yard had, saying hey, you will cut your hair and you will work out. And he refused to do so, so they hit him 2009?
Speaker 1:Yes, so the grooming standards were already gone by then. It had to have been something else. That's just what I mean we gathered. Well then, there it is. Had it been something else? Had to have been something else you're not gonna get whacked in the neck for not cutting your hair, dude that's not happening.
Speaker 2:That's not happening seemed like a great story. I appreciated it. I actually saw him. He was on the fucking ground gargling in a puddle of his fucking blood yeah, I, you know.
Speaker 1:And it's funny because, like, we see that all the time, right, yes. And like, at what point do you start to question yourself when you're watching someone getting butchered and your only thought is where am I gonna sit? Yeah, absolutely right, yes, because we would see that all the time. You're on a yard, you know shit's going down, you just don't know when. And then, when it does, and you see three dudes poking this dude to death, all you're thinking is what's the radius and where can I sit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I used to watch you guys look around. Real quick, go to the shade little patch of grass.
Speaker 1:Where's the radius? I need to get outside the radius, so I'm not a part of this, and you know.
Speaker 2:Oh, you see it all the time, Like looking like fuck, it's kind of a little skedaddle over there, but that wears on you Because you're watching this dude bleed out.
Speaker 1:Yes, but you've got a good spot to sit.
Speaker 2:When did this start to affect you, where you started to notice hey, man prison, ain't it?
Speaker 1:Oh, day one, Day one, day one. I was never one of those dudes that are like fuck yeah, I'm in prison, I'm so stoked. There are those individuals. They're all over the place, they love that place and you know, I would love to see prison reform, I would love to see California switched up.
Speaker 2:Riddle me this. You seem like a very independent man, right? How did you not run into any problems being that independent in a California prison system? Luck, huh, luck, luck, luck. Could you know you got to follow?
Speaker 1:the cause. Well, I mean, look, when a riot jumps off, I'm not going to stand against a wall and be like, well, I'm not a part of this, correct? I mean, you were there when you had to be Right. You've got to do what you've got to do, but I'm not there to raise my hand to say anything you don't want to do, I'll do, okay.
Speaker 2:Because that's what it is. Isn't that interesting? Because a lot of people have the question of hey, will I survive in a California prison? Can I do my own thing in a California prison? But it seemed like you knew how to navigate with your freaking personality, dude. It's just luck the way I am did people feel like they can count on you? You're your fellow inmates.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think your size has a lot to do with it, man. Well, I mean and that's part of it you know, uh, you know, hit it, hit a yard, be jogging the track and you're damn look the size of that white boy. You know, uh, you know, yeah look did.
Speaker 2:Other than the times that you mentioned in ad sig, did you ever make any other trips to ad sig?
Speaker 1:no, no, from, from pelican bay. So I'm in reception, delano, I just got 20 years. I'm mad, I'm pissed. They send me a little form to fill out. Okay, what was your job when you were on the street and what was your you know, uh, family life, like and like all these questions. Well, I just turned 26 and I'm looking at 20 years. So here's my parents address. This is where you send the body. Fuck you with the rest. Next of kin, yeah, like, fuck you. Emergency contact, right, like that's. That's all I'm giving you right.
Speaker 1:That Christian essay in the county he told me he goes when you get a chance, read the title 15, know the title 15. That's how you're going to keep yourself from getting fucked. Blah, blah, blah. So I get to Pelican Bay, I end up in a cell by myself because they dick my celly over and end up transferring him back to Chino after they just dropped him off in Pelican Bay. So I'm up there by myself and I'm just reading until it doesn't make sense, and I'm working out until I can't work out, and then I read until it doesn't make sense, turns out, all those questions mattered. All those questions were points. I just myself, I had a job on the streets. I, I was doing good, I was doing all this stuff.
Speaker 1:Oh they were damn so because I didn't answer any of these and they didn't explain any of this to me. I bumped my points up and and ended up in pelican bay. Damn so that first year I'm getting notes from, you know, my school showing I've got my gd okay. I'm getting uh notes from my boss saying that you know I worked for forum for blah, blah, blah. All this stuff got my uh, got my points down. I waited for that transfer for a year to leave Pelican Bay. Now, think about it, I'm level three, waiting to leave, just waiting for this place to jump off. It's been on lockdown for years, just coming off lockdown and I'm just waiting for a transfer. So I'm stressed the fuck out. Uh, from where I'm at in eight block, I can see the shoe, I can see the level one and I can see the, the traffic signal at the. From where, from the back of your window.
Speaker 2:yeah, what is there like a regular window in the back of a cell, just the, you know, the slit? And you're able to see all this stuff.
Speaker 1:The shoe is right there, okay, the level one's just off in the distance and on the other side of the shoe, yeah, you can see the light and it'll only change, shift, change, okay you know, but like that's huge right there, absolutely, like, think about it, it's the end of the road, yes, this is the most comfortable spot to be, and then that light, that's the, that's the goal, it's freedom. I mean, that was something that you know. I sat there and thought about and knew all the fucking uh forks in the road.
Speaker 2:So, with all of your experience within the California department of corrections, if CDCR was a private company, would it have gone bankrupt already? Yeah, did you see a lot of issues within the system.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, uh, you know the, you know we were talking earlier about. You know, uh, uh, shorter staff, right, that's a game. It's a game, it's a game. And you know, it is ccpoa, biggest union in all of california, right, that's a scam. Oh, I know, and that's what I'm saying is like, this is all a scam the short staffing, though I don't.
Speaker 2:I really want to make it clear, though, that short staffing is really a thing. Let me give you an example that maybe we can dissect it from there. Donovan prison has, I don't know, 900 cops, 900 correctional officers the covid era 2020 fucking. More than half either. Had covid said they had covid were off the books. Right. That's first. Second, third watch right. The other portion was the warden was a fucking dictator from hell and the chief deputy warden was a fucking witch from hell. No officers wanted to show up to work, because this was my theory. I'd rather call in sick and go to the San Diego zoo than come here and get under a fucking false investigation to be part of their agenda. So, yeah, you're, maybe you're seeing numbers on paper, but the reality of it is motherfuckers don't want to show up to work. How do you view it? Which affects us, the inmates? And again, no program.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, no program. So when you're short of staff, you're also in a vulnerable situation. That vulnerable situation, what leads to more pay?
Speaker 2:No, no, no, dude. I can 100% on my daughter say that is a myth. There is no hazard pay in the CDCR. There is not. Not for riots, not for lockdowns. I've been in riots, I've been in lockdowns. I never got an extra bump up or nothing on the pay stub. And not for short staff, absolutely not.
Speaker 1:You know, it's just. You know. You mentioned a scenario where we're dealing with COVID scenario where we're dealing with covid. I. I paroled in 2017, um, well before covid, and this was a regular run-of-the-mill thing to where it was almost like the the rolling blackouts oh, I remember right you know it would be like these rolling blackouts, like basically like oh, we're short of staff, or correct that that has nothing to do with covid and and, and you know that is a situation scenario to where now the prison's not being operated fully.
Speaker 2:I I just, I don't, I hear what you're saying. Now I, I see it. Yeah, I hear what you're saying, especially with the rolling blackouts.
Speaker 1:I mean, I've managed places before, so I have staff that I have to put in place and use. And da da da.
Speaker 2:But let's keep it real. The short staff issue, whether manufactured or not, is not the sole reason. Cdsh char is a complete, utter failure.
Speaker 1:No, no, of course not. It's part of it, um, but would? You say optics, the, the propaganda, what the higher-ups put out, the culture, the culture, the culture, the culture is what it comes down to and it's on both sides, 100, okay, don't get me wrong. It's on both sides 100%. Okay, don't get me wrong, it's not like I'm in here, like, how would you define the culture?
Speaker 2:Realistically.
Speaker 1:You were there. The culture I mean. You know it affects you. When people won't touch you, when they put gloves on before they touch you, they treat you like you're a fucking piece of shit. It won't give you a mirror. In the mirror they do give you, you can't really see yourself and you know it's wearing away your identity. It's wearing away your identity, it's taking away your identity, it's trying to create this.
Speaker 2:Dehumanization process. I will say this With the gloves we do take a bloodborne pathogen class and a lot of inmates have communicable diseases.
Speaker 1:I was in there, I get it, I understand, and there's motherfuckers I wouldn't touch either. But what I'm saying, though, is that this is a part of this whole thing to where, like you know, for a for for a lot there are ceos that look at you like you're a piece of shit. You are an animal. You have no right to talk to me, and I don't, uh, respect anything you say, think or feel, right, uh, and those are the guys that usually are underneath a table in the chow hall getting stomped out. It's difficult, because there is very much a us-v-them attitude, and I'm not saying we all need to hold hands and sing kumbaya, but understand that we're all people, that we're all men. In this situation. Now y'all can act like you're better, right, because you go home at night, but at the end of the day, you know you've done similar shit to me. You just never got caught, right. But here's the other thing A lot of dudes in prison never had a plan.
Speaker 1:They didn't have a plan for life, right? So what does the state do? Lock them in a concrete box. Then you got these other dudes that aren't up, but they don't have a plan either. What are we gonna do? Let's put those guys in charge of the guys in the box, right, so we can keep all of our guys that have no plans together, and then you and I just fight the whole time, yeah, about I don't like you and you don't like me and blah, blah, blah. But the whole time Jackwad's got us sitting here together spending our time together, absolutely.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm glad you said it. I'm glad you said it and I'm glad you said it the way you said it and the way you said it, because I've left the department almost two and a half years ago. And let's just break it down to basic human characteristics and character defects ego, ego. There is a lot of ego in prison, so much too much right abuse of power. Uh, and I'm not saying this in the view, I'm saying this is dude, green is cutthroat. Green is cutthroat with their own too. Man, I've had my own fucking friends sell me out, rat me out, throw me under the fucking bus. It is utterly disgusting. It is a toxic fucking environment, right From hell.
Speaker 1:Right From hell On both ends.
Speaker 2:So what would be a solution? Because I know you mentioned earlier that you and I, with both of our experiences, but different backgrounds, could come up with a solution.
Speaker 1:And I wholeheartedly agree. You know you harp on the whole California. You know program yeah, now, that's based on the norwegian, correct. One of the things is that when you don't understand what the problem is, your solution to said problem is rarely on point, facts, right. So when you don't understand the aspects of how the norwegian process program, whatever would look like right, and you implement it in a culture that is the CDC are of maybe not right now, but before right, they're incompatible, correct, you would. You would have to start an entirely new prison system and then all the 18 year olds and all the kids that are getting they would have to, and you would have to allow CDCdcr to just basically dwindle out through attrition. Right, right, um but man.
Speaker 2:but you mentioned one thing right now, you, which you said you can't come up with a proper solution if you can't identify the proper problem. But another thing is what about the word intent, the intention, intention, the intention of rolling out the California model based on the Norwegian model? Was the intent to actually rehabilitate these inmates or was the intent to put money into the pocket of Bree Williams, the CEO of Amend, and Governor Newsom?
Speaker 1:Well, let's really think about this. This was started in 2005. This was started because of the three-judge panel. That's why I ended up out of state. It's because they've got 20,000 dudes in 10,000 cells Right overcrowding, Overcrowded.
Speaker 2:Big time. So bad Bunk beds in the fucking day rooms, oh yeah yeah, that that was gims gnarly, the gyms were insane.
Speaker 1:And then you know, even towards the end, you know it's like. You know, I was a program clerk, so I got all the roles, I know who's who's where. And I'm in chuckawalla. C and d yard are good, a and b are no good. C and d, I've got a. I've got a bunk, I ain't got a bunkie. But over there everyone's like. You know three bunks high right cross the top tier. You know, down the dah, dah, dah, down the day room. It's insane. But I mean, that's where it all comes from. And why do you have 20,000 dudes and I'm using incorrect numbers, I'm just using for ease but why do you have 20,000 dudes in 10,000 cells when these cells are single-man cells?
Speaker 2:Would you agree when I say the department over corrected itself, and so did the society, with the three strike law. We went, we were here yeah, no, you're.
Speaker 1:You're touching on that three strike because you know that's one of those things that you know, even the father of of that little girl who pushed for the three strikes, it was a huge proponent on getting this squashed, because that's not what this was intended for, you know. And we talk about societal shifts, absolutely and and and, people getting their emotions wrapped up in a certain thing, and then, oh yeah, you know, lock them all up, right, okay, but now what? And and? Then then you end up with all these dudes locked up. With what kind of programs? No kind of programs. I don't give a damn what they say. I was there, I saw the programs. I know what they're about. Come on, man, half the time they're run by inmates.
Speaker 2:You mentioned culture and you mentioned problems. I am a firm believer that change starts at the top, from my experience in the military. So if you have the CDCR secretary that is incompetent, do you believe that attributes to the rest of the department's incompetence?
Speaker 1:Who's telling them the truth? Who's telling who the truth? Who's telling who the truth? The big dog, the guy on top.
Speaker 2:He takes his orders from the governor, whoever it is at the time.
Speaker 1:I know, but where the rubber meets the road, who's explaining that to him?
Speaker 2:It's one of those yes-man type of deals. You surround yourself with a bunch of fucking yes-men. They're never going to tell you the truth, Exactly.
Speaker 1:So then, if you've got a bunch of dudes that are telling you a bunch of bullshit, how are you going to use any of that?
Speaker 2:But he's not naive, he's not, he's not. He's well aware of me two and a half years later, so he knows the truth.
Speaker 1:He's now just in a position to just do his own thing. No, I think now he's in a position where it's a pride issue, Correct, you know, and he's just going to do what he's going to do. But I mean, if we were to think about it and not be on our pride and think about the actual situation, the actual fucking problem. You know this, dude. Okay, what's going on in the yard? Does the captain know exactly what's going on?
Speaker 1:the yard no because the lieutenant's not telling them. No, everything correct, the lieutenant's holding on to some of that stuff absolutely 100 sergeants not even telling the lieutenant everything. Facts, okay. So this is what I'm talking about when, when, when the higher up has no clue what's actually happening on the yard.
Speaker 2:Part of it is their problem as well, though. If a CO will attempt to tell the captain something, this captain at times will look at him and be like get out of my face you peon, Exactly exactly. Who are you to tell me what to do? I'm a captain. Don't you understand Pride, with only nine years in the department? Pride, it's more of ego. Yeah, it's more of ego. Yeah, it's all ego.
Speaker 1:You know, and I mean the thing is, that's what it comes down to, though, is you know?
Speaker 2:culture. We got to eradicate the egotistical maniacs from the California Department of Corrections. You know I am.
Speaker 1:I remember ninth grade English. I got yelled at because I wasn't doing what the class was doing. Right, I'm sitting in the back of the class reading aldous huxley, brave new world and, you know, teacher flips out on me and it's like, you know, mostly kids in because this was the third time I had taken ninth grade english, okay. So she's like, mostly kids in here don't even understand this. And you're back here reading stuff that like blah, blah, like, but look, we get into the whole social engineering. I know that that's a big oh no, that's scary. We're Americans and blah, blah, blah. But dude, a CEO should have anyone in charge of another person's life, especially in those dangerous situations, should have some sort of profile done. If they are someone that is very egocentric and can be manipulated emotionally, and so on and so forth, that person should not be a ceo here's a kicker, though.
Speaker 2:The one problem you would run into is running profiles on every ceo and phasing them out. Would be you already complained about lack of staffing, would be hiring issues, and I see we look at problems and we're like fuck man. If they were to run profiles on everybody, would you even be able to fill the fucking job?
Speaker 1:that's true, but if we were, uh, taking care of the population the way that we should and possibly not end up with so many people in prison facts, then we're not going to need those co facts. Okay, that's what it comes down to and that's where the norwegian you know program really comes in, the idea of like look, yeah, I understand I made a mistake, I understand that I messed up, but I'm not without value.
Speaker 2:Basically, bro, in a nutshell, all we have to do is tell our people at the bottom stop fighting each other, because the government is capitalizing on you. Period, that fucking easy. But will they stop fighting each other?
Speaker 1:probably not, because you know how it goes you know everyone's got their uh, their reason right for being mad so, as we wind this down, what are you doing now?
Speaker 2:because you mentioned you're on social media wind this down.
Speaker 1:What are you doing now? Because you mentioned you're on social media. Yeah, you know, one of the things that I'm trying to do right now is uh, I taught spirituality good for over a decade while I was down and when I got out, I wanted nothing to do with prison, abso-fucking-lutely nothing to do with prison and I did myself a disservice because I walked away from my program, you know, and the last, yeah, seven years haven't been amazing.
Speaker 1:You know I've been free and I've been, you know, doing things, but they haven't been amazing. You know I've been free and I've been, you know, doing things, but they haven't been amazing, you know, and getting back into my you know, prison program, my ways of thinking, you know doing stuff, so I had a little notebook that I'd like write notes in of all the stuff I wanted to do when I got out. I'm starting that list.
Speaker 2:Does service work?
Speaker 1:it sounds like you're talking about service work and helping others and being selfless yeah, when I got out I used to overhear in ocean sign it's um uh, last chance at life. Yeah, so it's a rescue. And so I started going there and walking dogs. You know just one of those things. Yeah, had to stop Because you know I'm going in and these dogs are in their outside kennels, and so I'd go in, take this dog out for a walk and then bring them to their new kennel. You know their nighttime kennel.
Speaker 1:So you know I'd hook up their nighttime kennel and I'd make sure I gave them a couple extra blankets and you know, yeah, the extra toilet paper, if they needed it, right, right, and then I'd lock them up, and then I'd lock him up and then, you know, man, it got to me. It got to me like the idea of having this dog and the, the, the feelings that I'm getting from these dogs, like you can feel it. Yeah, right, it's too close to home. I hear you, dude, you know so I. So I ended up I had to quit that, I had to stop. It was a lot.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, you know, getting into the social media trying to get my message out there, what's your handles? If people could reach out to you, if they have to Sigrafn S-I-G-H-R-A-F-N. Cool, we'll link it on the bottom. Yeah, it means Victory Raven. So, yeah, just doing that. I work for a junk company, junk removal Fun. Just throwing heavy shit. It's on your own shit. Yeah, no, I mean, I work for a company, but right, meaning that you don't have to work with other people that are fucking agitating, exactly, exactly, basically, just me and a buddy out in the field eating couches off of uh balconies.
Speaker 2:Can't beat it, dude, fun well, dude, I want to thank you for coming all the way down here, man, sharing your story. Dude, that shit was fucking nuts bro.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir, well, you know, I mean that's the thing is getting the story out there, getting my story out there, getting your story out there. You know, when it comes to the California CDCR, you know, getting our stories out there and getting people like us to work together to take that stuff down, I mean it can all be changed, it's just set up wrong, correct.
Speaker 2:It's being operated wrong and set up wrong. So again, dude, thank you for coming out here. Man, yes, sir, thank you for having me there. You guys have it. Folks, another banger, so much that we unpacked on today's episode. If you like what you saw, make sure you hit that subscribe button. Love you keep pushing forward Ends, thank you.
