From Encino To High Power: A Life Inside California’s Prison Machine

The story starts with a red light, a door cracked open, and a desperate roll onto Wilshire Boulevard. From there, Scott takes us inside a bullet-torn Mercedes, a judge who called it an attempted murder on him, and a first step into LA County’s High Power where reputation, paperwork, and unspoken rules shape survival. We sit with the fear, the adrenaline, and the aftermath—and then widen the lens to the machine that profits when people fail.

We walk through the architecture of California’s prison boom: mental hospitals shuttered, CCPOA flexing in Sacramento, parole violations multiplying to keep beds full, and three strikes cementing overcrowding. Scott demystifies how vendors, overtime, and whole rural economies tie their fortunes to bodies behind bars. He calls out the gap between “rehabilitation” on paper and skills that translate in the real world. Then comes his MAC-rep showdown: exposing a phone shutdown, getting tossed in the hole, starving on principle, and finally a CCPOA officer finding the missing chrono that triggers his release from CMF. It’s a rare look at how truth survives in a system designed to ignore it.

We don’t stop at gates. We follow the money to private prisons and immigration detention, where low wages meet high per-diem profits. We talk fentanyl and homelessness as social anesthesia, media that polarizes, and the way COVID revealed how easily fear can turn neighbors into monitors. Scott explains why some force is necessary in custody—and where it crosses into revenge and herd-thinking. He argues that early parenting, moral foundations, and street-real mentorship are the strongest antidotes to eighth-grade wisdom steering fourth-grade experience into a life sentence. And he makes the case for podcasts as one of the last honest forums, where lived experience can confront policy spin and demand better.

If this conversation challenged you, share it with someone who still believes “corrections” corrects. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: which part of the system do you think needs to change first?

Chapters

• 0:00 OG Perspective And Early Upbringing
• 4:20 Parenting, Moral Foundations, And Youth Drift
• 9:42 The 1981 Beverly Hills Escape And Shooting
• 21:00 LA County Classification And High Power Politics
• 27:40 From County To CDC: Palm Hall And Survival
• 36:20 Tattoos, Identity, And Youth In Gangs
• 44:00 Who Sets Morals And How Society Warps Them
• 52:00 Primal Instincts, Weakness, And Modern Comfort
• 58:30 CCPOA, Prison Boom, And Parole Violations
• 1:10:20 Three Strikes, Overcrowding, And Profit Chains
• 1:22:30 Rehabilitation Myths And Life On Installment Plan
• 1:31:30 Intelligence Behind Bars And Lost Potential

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:01

Hector Bravo Un chaos is now in section.

SPEAKER_02: 0:11

Welcome back to our channels, Warriors. We are still growing. Today, another special guest on the Hector Bravo Unhinned channel, none other than Scott Broman, a former C number. That's Charlie from the California Department of Corrections, is here to tell his story. What up, Scott? How's it going, dude?

SPEAKER_01: 0:28

It's going great. I came by and I wanted to kind of give a perspective other than what we normally see on convict podcasts.

SPEAKER_02: 0:37

The OG perspective.

SPEAKER_01: 0:39

The OG perspective.

SPEAKER_02: 0:40

The C number, Charlie number, man. Those things are all uh non-existent anymore. A thing of the past, I should say.

SPEAKER_01: 0:45

Yeah, they really are. They were like well, at the end of my state term, uh I would I would always trip out because by the time I got done, there were HH and whatever. I mean, they were so far through the alphabet. You know, it took 20 years to get rid of A numbers and another twenty or ten or fifteen for B's and fifteen for C.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05

So where are you from?

SPEAKER_01: 1:06

I was born and raised in Encino, California, down in San Fernando Valley, basically. Uh raised from what most people considered a middle class environment, good schools, you know, normal stuff until the parents get divorced. And then that creates, you know, drama where I was going back and forth between playing each parent off the other. If my mother wouldn't give me what I wanted, I'd go to my father's. My father, my mother's. But my neighborhood was filled with celebrities, doctors, lawyers, et cetera, and a lot of people in the entertainment industry. So there was this group, this core group of kids that I hung out with, and we were kind of the misfits. Our parents were either out of the country or they weren't paying attention. I don't know what they call them, I don't know if they call them helicopter parents, but they just weren't around. So we were like, we were the little idiots running around the neighborhood.

SPEAKER_02: 2:00

That like the Menendez brothers' parents type of upbringing?

SPEAKER_01: 2:03

Yeah. Yeah, where you just didn't, there was really no hands-on parenting. Okay. And they weren't paying attention. So we were, you know, going out in the middle of the night and stealing bikes and malicious mischief, breaking stuff. And we one day we ended up stealing a car and just doing stupid stuff.

SPEAKER_02: 2:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 2:22

You know, nothing was real, we weren't like violent. We weren't trying to terrorize anybody. We were just wild kids.

SPEAKER_02: 2:29

From your experience, looking back in hindsight, what type of approach of parenting do you think would be more beneficial? Hands-on, hands-off, or a mixture of both?

SPEAKER_01: 2:37

It's got to be a mixture of uh hands-on enough to lead and then hands-off enough to allow your kid to explore. And, you know, when I was a kid, we'd ride bikes, you know, we'd leave at eight o'clock in the morning. Right. Might come home for lunch, might not. Sun goes down, you're home. Um, but I think as long as and and this is actually a perspective that I have on me uh as far as how I made it through juvenile hall, youth authority, CDC, the feds, is parenting, my parents get didn't get divorced till I was eight. So I had a solid moral foundation until I was eight years old. You know, I was taught which spoon to use, which fork to use, I had to go to school, all that good stuff. My world didn't really blow up till I was eight. But I think I I believe in if you want to educate kids or for lack of better word, train kids, that foundation from birth to five, six, seven is so, so important because now you can go out and function in the world. You know, and in some cultures, by the time you're eight years old, you're out working and right bringing home the bread. So I think that there's a difference in having that structure and having no structure as a child.

SPEAKER_02: 3:54

I also agree, though, because I separated from my wife a little over a year ago, and that we are not in the same household, but we are still holding that foundation together for our daughter.

SPEAKER_01: 4:03

You have to. That's the most important thing in the world. Once you have that child for the next 18 years, her well-being is the most important thing, no matter what the struggle is.

SPEAKER_02: 4:15

Right. When did you start finding yourself getting in trouble with the law and landing in Los Angeles County Jail?

SPEAKER_01: 4:22

Well, the county jail, I went through, I went through juvenile hall, I went through California Youth Authority, YTS, you know, gladiator school. I w I went through it all. But the first time I was in the county jail was I got arrested June 19th, 1981. Uh shootout. I escaped from Beverly Hills. Beverly Hills cops grabbed me. And when they're transporting me, they want to the feds want me to. So the Beverly Hills cops are transporting me to the federal building on Wilshire, and on every it was June 19th, 1981, 5 o'clock at night, and I'm in a crime suppression unit, undercover cops. So this is a Z-28 Camaro, two sergeants in the back, a lieutenant driving. And if you can picture where this busy intersection of Wilshire Boulevard and Veteran, where the federal building is, I'm handcuffed in front because my attorney's following behind us. Okay. So I popped the door open. I I was watching the lights, and there was no cars behind. Popped the door open, roll out onto Wilshire Boulevard. The guys in the back can't get out. You got to reach up and push the seat up.

SPEAKER_02: 5:34

In the vehicle, where were you seated?

SPEAKER_01: 5:35

I was in the front passenger seat. You were in the front passenger riding shotgun. Right. But I got a ton of money and dope up at my house that doesn't belong to me that they didn't find.

SPEAKER_02: 5:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 5:50

So anyway, I roll out onto Wilshire, I escape from them. I end up getting to a girlfriend of mine's house who gets a hacksaw, cuts a hack. You made it. Oh yeah. Yeah, I made well, I made it until I don't know if you want to hear this whole thing, but this is literally my first arrest that got me in a county jail. So I don't know if you know that area, but there's a veterans, the federal building, and then there's a veterans mortuary. Well, I hid in the groundskeeper shack in the mortuary while I saw the helicopters doing the grid search and all this stuff. I come out when it gets dark, literally right across the street from there. I had a girlfriend of mine that ran a club. She was getting ready to go to work. She cuts the handcuffs off, and I had stolen cars parked all over Ball A. So, and I was also getting ready to get married to a girl. So I end up getting together with uh my future fiance. Uh, but she is we'd got in a fight, she's living up in Bel Air at Beverly Sassoon's house in a guest house I'd never been to before. Well, she takes me to pick up one of the stolen cars, and we ate, and I'm trying to figure out what, okay, so I escaped. Now what? You know. So I'm following her to what I think is going to be a safe haven, this guest house in up on Roscomere in Bel Air. Well, unbeknownst to me, the Beverly Hills cops had gone to my mother's house. Okay, and my mother had written my girlfriend's new address on a piece of paper. And my mother had written Patty Scott's girlfriend on Roscomere. So Beverly Hills cops get that. We're coming up Roscomere. Patty's in front of me in her car. I'm in a stolen uh 450 SL. And it's one of these horseshoe drives. Well, when she pulls up into the driveway, I had actually overshot it. All of a sudden I hear her screaming. And I'm like, what the fuck? And she's going, help me, help me. So I backed back down, start going up the driveway, and the next thing, the car just starts exploding. What do you mean? These cops are just dumping on me. I'd embarrassed them. I was in their custody. They were taking me to be interviewed by the feds, and I escaped from them. So they're like, they want to kill my ass. So there's, they're just letting off 45 rounds. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. My dumb ass, I just put my hand on the wheel, ducked down, barreled down the driveway. As bullets are coming through the back, one of them came through the uh the dashboard up over in the corner, and it had lost so much velocity going through the window, and then the cushion and the dash, and it hit me in the shoulder and bounced off. 45 round. I'll never forget this. It was in the console of the car. And I literally grabbed it and put it in my mouth like it was some kind of, I don't know. It was just like they're not gonna fucking, you know, I'll eat their shit. Anyway, I shoot down the street in this totally shot, I don't know what it looks like at this point. Completely shot out fucking car. Um, driving like a maniac. I could have killed somebody. I mean, if somebody would have stepped out in front or whatever the case may be, but when I get to the Bel Air West Gate, there's a traffic cop there writing a ticket, and he just kind of he gives you this look like, what the fuck? Because I had like I had a huge lead on the undercover cops that were up at the house. I end up getting on the freeway, going down to uh the South Bay. I stop at a gas station, this is before cell phones, to get on the phone, and I look at the car and it's like it's a red 450 SL Mercedes. And you know, the bullet goes in that big, but then it takes the paint off that big. So it's like the Bonnie and Clyde car. It's only by the grace of God that I'm that I didn't get killed that night. Anyway, to make a long story shorter, um, at the end of the day, I end up running around and I'm trying to go to friends' houses, and I'm just trying to land somewhere so I can think. And I call my attorney up, and he says, You got to turn yourself in or you're dying tonight. I go, What do you goes, they're gonna kill you.

SPEAKER_02: 10:01

In order for them to utilize daily force, there has to be a daily force criteria meant.

SPEAKER_01: 10:06

One would think, wouldn't one? Well, here's the story of the cops end. That when I pulled up in the driveway, I tried to run one of them over. Assault with a deadly one. I'm glad you clarified that, man. And then, and then they uh when I was backing away, when I was retreating, and the funny thing is the judge at when he he just I mean, come on, you know how they are. I was I had 47 charges. You know what I mean? And the judge said at the preliminary hearing, as he started just throwing charges out, because he knew the cops, everybody was, I mean, the cops got up there, just lied their ass off. And the judge said, from the moment Mr. Brome entered the driveway on Roscoe Mare until he effectuated his escape, he was the victim of an attempted murder. He was not committing any crime other than self-preservation. Correct. So at the end of the night, what I so I get on the phone with my attorney, and he's like, hey, Patty's in jail. They've taken her into custody, she's at West LA, they're hunting you down, and they're just gonna kill you. If Beverly Hills is first on you, you're gonna die. So you're gonna have to turn yourself in. I'm like, dude, I just got done escaping with handcuffs and shoot all the turn myself. Are you fucking nuts? And he goes, Your girlfriend's in jail.

SPEAKER_02: 11:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 11:24

And she's she comes like blue blood Texas money. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do that. Um and I at that point I was in the San Fernando Valley. So I get on the 405 and I'm gonna turn myself in. There's a round, it used to be a holiday inn at sunset in the 405. I said, Okay, I'll turn myself in at the holiday inn and I asked my attorney, how long will it take you to get there? Because I'm not gonna get there before you do. He said, 20 minutes. So I kill some time, I'm coming over the 405, and some chippies light me up. And I'm like, fuck that. I'm not pulling over. So I just I let them chase me all the way into the round holiday inn at sunset in the 405. And there was one of these airport crew vans dropping off. And I'll and behind them I see all these cops. So I just stop dead in the driveway, put my hands out the windows, and I go, hey, they're gonna kill me, they're gonna go. What my name's Scott anyway, I'm trying to get their attention. So we had citizens watching. It was before, you know, before cameras and all this other stuff. So they take me into custody, they don't kick my ass because there's too much my attorney's there and everything else. Um they take me to Beverly Hills jail, which is the sweetest fucking place, even then, before they ever I understand they've redone it. So they take me to the jail. I see my girl for a minute. Um I say, you gotta let her go. That was the deal. You know, she didn't do a fucking thing. And they're basically like, yeah, fuck you. Aiding and a betting. They okay. So we're in jail. I'm on like, I'm on this row, she's on that row. We're the only ones in the jail. It's Beverly Hills jail, you know. They don't until Monday morning when every brother and Mexican that had been in Beverly Hills was brought in for bullshit. You know what I mean? Beverly Hills is the most racist, you know, if you're a- Why would it be Monday morning? Well, what I mean is I got there Friday night. Over the weekend, you're gonna go to arraignment on Monday. So they would pick up every brother, every Hispanic, everybody that didn't look like they belonged in Beverly Hills, they just lock them up for bullshit. Okay, and then they kick them all loose Monday morning. But Saturday night, the jailer comes over to him and he brings me a bunch of candy and cigarettes and bullshit, and he goes, Here, your girl got this for you. And he said, Uh, you have a huge lawsuit. He said, The LA County Sheriff's shooting team was downstairs, they got the car. Um, he said, They tried to kill you. Uh he goes, I hope you got a good attorney. He says, I know what happened. He goes, and the shooting team told Beverly Hills, you know, you guys are fucked. Anyway, so now I go to LA County jail for the first time.

SPEAKER_02: 14:15

But how did that make you feel as a man that they attempted to take your life? Oh, I was madder in hell. Oh, you were mad, you were upset?

SPEAKER_01: 14:22

Oh, absolutely. Because it was no justification. Yeah, I was yeah, I was pissed. You know what I mean? And and because they were also so fucking disrespectful. And it wasn't the cops, like I respect cops that are dudes, you know what I mean? That that are that are about something. Right. That aren't the Barney Fifes, you know what I mean? You know what everybody says, oh, they got picked on in school. Right, right. Like Stephen Miller at the White House. The little nerds. Um, but these guys were just so fucking disrespectful. And then throughout the next year and a half, when I would go to every time I'd be down in the attorney room, Beverly Hills cops would be there. They'd be looking at me and pointing and shooting. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 15:04

Did you grow up with it towards them?

SPEAKER_01: 15:07

Towards them, yes. Okay. Yeah, there were two of them that I just absolutely hated. Because they were just shit talkers. And and you know, and you know how when you first get arrested, like even with the feds, oh, you're going to jail for a hundred years. You know, they're like, oh, we got so many charges on you, you're never gonna we're gonna bury you under the jail. Which didn't happen. But when I get to LA County, I'd been involved in some stuff that I didn't even know I was involved. I'm just uh I'll give you an example. There was a huge investigation at that time for what they called the Wonderland killings, which was John Holmes, the porn star. Uh they'd have made a couple of great movies about it. But and it what it was was a drug ripoff. John Holmes was this huge porn star back in the day, and and there was a house on Wonderland Drive. And anyway, the guys that were involved in the murder were huge, uh Abdul Zralla, Eddie Nash, and a guy named Gregory Diles. Uh, I think they're both dead now. But this huge investigation, but unbeknownst to me, months earlier, the feds had been LAPD uh major crimes task force, whatever they call themselves, were watching Eddie Nash's house. And I went there a couple of times to score dope or to for a party or whatever the case may be. And I had another girlfriend that worked for some guy on uh Beverly in Beverly Hills. Turns out he was a huge mob bookie. So oh, and then when I got arrested that the morning when I escaped, the feds had come up and they told this lieutenant, Lieutenant Hunt, I think his name was, from Beverly Hills PD, as you're tearing my house up, they're cussing at this cop, going, We've been investigating this fucker for 97 days. What the fuck? There's no communication. You guys are just gonna come up here and fuck up 90 days worth of work, which is why I was being taken from Beverly Hills to the feds that day.

SPEAKER_02: 17:08

So because of your upbringing, your race, your parents, you were kind of partying with like bigwigs. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, I that's not a that's uh that's not a normal experience. That is a unique experience. Not everybody gets to party with those types of people.

SPEAKER_01: 17:27

Yeah, um, but you know what? I've also partied in the hoods. And my point is hanging out, having a good time, drinking, doing whatever you do. Sometimes those places, it's fake as fuck. Correct. You know what I mean? Correct. These aren't real people. Correct. There's a couple of real people, and then someone else, you know, I laugh sometimes at these people that like sneak into the nice clubs because they saved up their money to get a fake Louis Vuitton bag and fake. So I like real people. Me too. But did I get to hang out with some amazing people? Absolutely. Absolutely. Um so anyway, that's my entree to LA County Jail. And now they don't know what the fuck. When you go to classification, they don't know what the fuck to do with me. I got an address, Beverly Hills address. Uh they know from intelligence and everything, the sheriff's the sheriff's LAPD and whatever, that I've been around these other people. So I'm basically what they call a UFO. You know, my very first, it's called a jail report card at uh LA County Jail, a JRC, uh said uh involved in LA Los Angeles organized crime circles. They didn't identify anything, they just said that's what it was. Which was a in in retrospect was a huge blessing. Because I'm not even 21 yet. I'm 20. I got a busted June 19th, 1981. I didn't turn 21 until next month.

SPEAKER_02: 18:56

But was that an accurate statement involved in organized crime circles? Unbeknownst to me. Okay, so it was in accurate circle.

SPEAKER_01: 19:02

Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't, yeah. It was I didn't know, I mean That wasn't your intent. That was not my intent. No, you can be if you go to a party in LA, hell San Diego. Right. You could go to a play. I was been down here and I ended up at a house with a bunch of cartel guys about 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_02: 19:18

You know? But you're saying in the eyes of the law, they would have ringed you in as hey, absolutely, an associate of this cartel.

SPEAKER_01: 19:26

And then the crazy thing is, so I go to High Power, and High Power is where every, you know, all the sh at that time. If you were in High Power, you were there because you were a celebrity over on F or G Row, which was basically like protective custody, but it's not like they're rats, they're just there because everybody's gonna take advantage of them. And then you had A, B, C, D, and E Row, and that was all gangsters. It was all shot callers for the brand, shot callers for the black gorilla family, shot callers for uh the Crips. That's where Big Tookie was. Was there? Uh 1981. July of 1981. Okay. You had, I don't know if you know heard the story. Big Tookie Reese, who they ended up killing on death row eventually. Um Tookie Williams. Tookie Williams, Tookie Williams, Reese, Reese. Oh, I'm thinking of Tootie Reese. There was a huge co gangster named Tootie Reese back in those days. Yeah, Tookie. So here I'm on C Row with all these gangsters. And I'm the younger.

SPEAKER_02: 20:30

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SPEAKER_01: 20:47

And I'm obviously intimidated. I uh I mean, I don't even know what the whole feeling. Thank God I'd been to Youth Authority. Um, so that gave me a little bit of cred. And I'd been to YTS. I wasn't at like fucking, you know, camp fucking Snoopy. Uh but they kind of embraced me. Uh, number one, because they knew what you know, we all share our paperwork. So they knew I'd, you know, been in this, it's not a shootout. I was in this attempted murder on me. I like how you call it a shootout.

SPEAKER_02: 21:18

You clarified everything. Yeah, it wasn't really a shootout. But it was one way. The one way. Yeah. So Did you have a firearm when the cops were lighting your ass up?

SPEAKER_01: 21:30

No, they found a they found a Uzi and about 9,000 rounds of ammunition up at my house. Oh, okay. That I just traded. I never used the fucking thing.

SPEAKER_02: 21:39

So there you are showing your paperwork. You're like, Dan, literally the motherfucker's a real deal. Right. And then what happens? And I was young. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 21:45

So they wouldn't allow uh the big homies would not allow me to be taken advantage of. You know, I got my props, I was going out to visiting, and they saw I got a beautiful girlfriend. You know, it's somewhere back in someone's mind they were probably going, oh, yeah, we're gonna use this, we're gonna work this dude. Uh but that never happened. Strategy, chess. Yeah. The big picture. So I went through that whole thing, and uh I think that's about 15 months. Turned out to be nothing. You know what I ended up going to prison for? What? Receiving stolen property. They found a stolen car up at my house after they went back up there. They didn't charge you with the escape? No, it all got thrown out. That's what I say. Oh, it all got thrown out.

SPEAKER_02: 22:28

No, the judge, that that was thrown out at the prelim. To include the uh allegedly attempting to run over police officers.

SPEAKER_01: 22:34

Yeah. No, they tried are you kidding? They threw that out in a minute. Well, unbeknownst to me, there was something else that happened. When they were shooting, and there were like cops lined up down the street as I'm driving this way. It turns out they shot out the city attorney's bathroom window. Burt Pines was a city attorney at the time. So Beverly Hills probably paid a shitload of money on civil suits over that. And I was always told I should sue, and I'm like, yeah, that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna get out and sue the guys that carry guns that hate me already. You know, that just wasn't a smart thing to do. Right. So anyway, that was my entree to CDC. And so when I leave the LA County Geo High Power, or now I've been schooled by all these dudes. Uh now I go straight to Palm Hall. Because Palm Hall, they they read my shit because I'm coming out, you know, when you when you get off the bus, you're in cages, you know, up in the front. Now I guess everybody's in cages now. But back in those days, when you pull up on the gray goose, you were in a cage, you went immediately to, you know, a holding cell, straight to Palm Hall. They gave you a TV and that was your program. Uh and that's where, again, I got a lot of education from because there were Brand on the tier, Emmy on the tier, uh across from us. Palm Hall has four yards. But there's a tower in the center.

SPEAKER_02: 23:52

As far as inmate politics, right? Were you aware of the politics? Did you have any desire to involve yourself in the politics? No, I didn't. No, I didn't.

SPEAKER_01: 24:00

And I was fortunate. I don't know if you know who uh Bobby Crane. Do you know who you ever heard of Bobby Crane? Bobby Crane's a shot caller in the uh Aryan Brotherhood, has been for years. I think he's still alive. His brother Richie Crane, uh no good. Um but I knew the politics, but I didn't have any respect for it. I didn't see it as I didn't think I needed it to survive. Um, and I was probably full of myself. Um but like on the tiers there, you know, we don't we only interact out on the yard. And that that was before you had all the fucking, you know, Marine Cal or Navy CEO calisthenics and stuff. You went out, you played handball, you talk shit, you ate your lunch. Um but I was, you know, so there was no pressure like going out to, and we used to be able to go out there like we went like three times a week, four or five hours. Um, but there was never anybody trying to indoctrinate me, you know, and say, hey, you know, whatever. And I think it's because I was so fucking young. And I wasn't, even though I'd been to youth authority, I never got any ink. So I never put and I call that it's kind of a disrespect. One thing I've learned is most people that do the face tattoos, they're either uglier than hell and or an insecure. And that could come from their upbringing, whatever the but I call it Revlon makeup. It's to intimidate people to go if I if I'm if I'm gonna look this fucking crazy and that's your perception? That's my that's always been my perception. Okay. I have never met too many serious now. After the fact, these kids when they when they end up you know diving in the ink and whatever, there have been some of their absolute killers.

SPEAKER_02: 25:51

But when it first started Are you pertaining only to the gangsters that tat their face, or you're like if you have a uh attractive female and she puts a little cross or something?

SPEAKER_01: 26:00

Oh no, no. See, tattoos today are totally I'm actually talking your audience and and people today, even you're 20 years, 30 years younger than me. Back in the day, tattoos were an anomaly in public. Oh, correct. Absolutely they're not today. It's it's art and it's respected, and people aren't looked down at you can get a job if you're you know what I mean? Correct, correct, yeah. In those days, though, pretty much the only people that got tattoos were bikers and homies and gang members, gang guys. Yeah, that's a fact. Um, but it didn't really get crazy with the face stuff until probably the early 90s.

SPEAKER_02: 26:38

Right, right. No, okay, okay, cool. I just wanted to make clarify, right? Because like, yeah, I hear what you're saying. No, there's a there was a uh young Sureño that tattooed his upper lip when I was a brand new young CEO. I said, Why would you do that, man? I said, What kind of job are you gonna get with? He said, a porter. And he was, I was just I was 22 years old, so I was just having a hard time grasping my new reality of prison.

SPEAKER_01: 27:02

No, it's it's it's and and I got a I got a huge soft spot in my heart for gangsters. Young serenos, you know, tenos, crips, bloods, because the one the most amazing, heart-wrenching things that I dealt with in LA County jail and later on in prison was watching these kids come in at 18 years old, or they were 15, and then they decided to send them to adult court, and then the minute they turn 18, they bring them over, they put them in high power. And I got to know so many kids, and now they're not like completely surrounded by the homies and in and in high power, you know, cells right next to each other. You can literally like look through the crack in the bar and have a real conversation so everybody on the tier doesn't hear it. And I met so many young gangsters that threw their entire fucking life away because the eighth-grade kid told him what life was supposed to be about and put a gun in his hand. And I mean the eighth-grade education.

SPEAKER_02: 28:13

So utilize this experience, utilize this moment right now to give that um analogy. When I was asking you about, like, hey, do these people glorify prison gang life? Right. And utilize this time or not.

SPEAKER_01: 28:27

So I I when Hector and I were talking earlier, I said, you know, there's too many eighth graders that are teaching, giving their interpretation of life and what it's supposed to be to someone with a fourth grade education. It doesn't necessarily mean it's it's a it could be a 27-year-old that's only got an eighth-grade education, and he's trying to school a 19-year-old that's only got a fourth grade education. And due to the unfortunate circumstances of your economic background where you were raised, you never really got a chance to be educated. So you look up to your homies or people that you perceive to be more intelligent than you, more worldly. And I watch so many kids, and what I see exactly, it's my perception is you've got totally uneducated, unworldly human beings taking advantage of or indoctrinating younger, stupider, less intelligent, for lack of a better word, kids, to come into this life and throw their entire lives away.

SPEAKER_02: 29:34

But you're speaking education, right? Not just education, life experience, correct, emotional intelligence, consequences, rewards, right? Uh ethics, morals, morals, ethics, age, don't do that.

SPEAKER_01: 29:47

None. And if you have, and and the problem is, and I come from a broken home, you got babies having babies. Correct. That was just the way it was, and I could go on a whole siloquy about that. But when you have a 15-year-old girl having a child that she then resents because she can't go to the prom or she can't do this, that child ends up thrown out on the street. So now you got a bunch of kids all hanging out, and they don't get that moral, ethical structure in their lives through no fault of their own.

SPEAKER_02: 30:19

Let me ask you this question, man, because I want to authentically want to know who who designs the moral code? The moral code by who?

SPEAKER_01: 30:27

That's a great question. In fact, he and I were talking about this before you came in. And it uh I was listening to I love Rage Against the Machine. Yeah, you know, they're anti-government, especially with what's going on. I've been listening to a lot. What the fuck is normal? Correct. And that's where that's exactly what we were speaking about. You know, we we come out of the chute in this country, and in my time, we were taught, like it was, you know, Ozzy and Harriet, all these just white, middle class, suburban, bullshit life, you know, that didn't exist anywhere. Actually, Harriet was getting beaten up by Ozzy, and Ricky was raping the girl down the street. It was, but it was this cookie-cutter life of what we're supposed to be as Americans. Right. Uh, and then the morals we were supposed to get from our elders or from the churches and the schools. Um, but it all comes down to the same thing. Who's the elder that's giving you these morals? Whereas at the same time, if I was born in Afghanistan or Italy or Bali, everything's different. So I think what we have to do is be more inquisitive as human beings and read and question and touch and feel and fuck things and then make up our own minds. Because we're we're born, I think, with a certain capacity to learn, you know, unless we're, you know, unfortunately, we were born with some brain damage or mental incapacity, or parents were shooting PCP. Right. I think we all have an ability to survive and to learn. You know, in some cultures, when you're eight years old, you're going out and you're gonna bring the bread home. So who who sets that moral standard? It's gotta come from the home. Okay. It's gotta start at the home. And if it's not mom and dad, hopefully it's aunt and uncle or or or grandma and grandpa. But if you don't get that, you're fucked.

SPEAKER_02: 32:32

Now, how primal are we as humans? And how have we either gotten away from our primal instincts or stayed the same as our primal instincts?

SPEAKER_01: 32:40

We've we've put on the, I believe, it's a great question. I think we put on the the facade of coming out of this primalness. And you know, we take showers and whatever, brush our teeth, and we say please and thank you, hopefully. But if all of a sudden, I was just having this discussion the other day, if all of a sudden the lights went out, the water went out, we'd become those primal ass cavemen in about fucking 72 hours. Facts. In about 72 hours, motherfuckers, it would be only the strong survive. Yep. And the weak would perish. So yeah, I we've we've got a couple of hundred years of brushing our teeth.

SPEAKER_02: 33:21

Would you define the weak? Can you define the weak in today's society? Who would most likely not make it? What are some characteristics? Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01: 33:31

Every fucking kid from 25 to birth that's been stuck on their phone that watches videos. I know a shit, it doesn't matter why, I know a shit ton of rappers, okay? Yeah. That are putting makeup on. You know what I mean? It's a friggin' we've been programmed, we're programmed by by our influences, you know, what we see, and then the algorithms, you know, when you get into that mess. But the ones that wouldn't survive is every kid that didn't have the balls to try to train himself, you know, to fight, to go into the military, all these little sissy ass kids that know how to dress the dress and walk the walk. And I deal with them all the time as an old man because of what I do. And they're just a bunch of punks. As soon as you get in their face, they turn into little girls that are dressed like gangsters. Right. So who wouldn't survive? Them. 80% of the population from 25 down.

SPEAKER_02: 34:33

I'm glad you pointed that out. Am I No, you're dead or you fucking hit the nail on the head. Yeah. So when it comes to CDC, California Department of Corrections, and the CCPOA, what do you know about them and how do they intervene?

SPEAKER_01: 34:45

Well, that's what I that's what I really wanted to uh do it, man. Because I I I was so and I used to write a shitload in prison. Read and write. And write or typewriter? I dude, I my dad sent me a typewriter, but when I was in K-Wing and Tracy and couldn't get shit, I had a pencil and a and a pad of paper. So I watched the growth of the Department of Corrections. When I started, you had uh CRC, Norco, Chino, CMC, Tracy, Soledad, Vacaville, Folsom, and Quentin. Yep. And I think that was it. I might have missed oh uh Susanville. Susanville was open. Tatsby. But it was only Tatsby who wanted two yards. So the CAC was not nearly the monster that it became. And when well this actually all began with Ronald Reagan in 1968, closing down the mental hospitals. 1968. 1968. The prison growth, the prison industry, as they call it, began in 68 when Ronald Reagan shut all the state hospitals. So now you had your mental, just like we see today, all the homeless on the state. 100%. That started in 68.

SPEAKER_02: 36:00

Ronald Reagan, go ahead. Now what was the motivating factor for that? Was there money being was the corruption already starting? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 36:07

Absolutely. And I I mean, God, we can go for four hours. I think that's what's happening today, which is why Trump wants everybody broke, hungry on the street, is he wants to create a frigging civil war. We know they're building bigger prison camps.

SPEAKER_02: 36:20

Let's go, but anyway, let me go back to the closed down the psych wards, more likely because money was involved somewhere. Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 36:28

And you've got to keep the haves and the haves not thing. You know, Reagan was that type of person, the schmuck today is that type of person. So crime did not exponentially blossom from 68 to 79, 80. But that's when we had what? That's when we had when it was more acceptable and so many women had kids. Single mothers having children. And then crack hit. And crack crack came around like 80, 79, 80. But you're right, crack contributed a ton to the popul to the expansion. But the CCPOA, these guys were sharp, and they lobbied when they first started building the new, I forget the first new prison that was built, it might have been Tahitabi, three and four. But the CCPOA all already had a shit ton of influence in the legislature. And then the other thing was when they went to build these prisons, where are we gonna build them? We're gonna build them in these, you know, San Joaquin Valley, you know, up and down the five. And what can we do? Well, we can take, and this is it's it's not it's by perspective or my perception. Here's what we're gonna do. We got all these gangbangers over here, we got all these crack acts over here, we got all this white boys up in Oildale and Fresno. We want to throw them all in jail. So what are we gonna do? We're gonna get them all in jail, but then we're gonna get their homies that had the foresight to go into the military. We're gonna have job fairs. When they get out of the military, then come work for the CDC or the LA County Sheriff's, they can guard their brothers and sisters, which is you've probably seen kind of what has happened. 100%, dude. This is weird. Continue going, bro. So, which is a huge problem on a budget levels. So what's well now you got the homies, big homies, telling the guards, hey, I know where your mom and dad live, so where's that cell phone again? Um so this created this prison expansion, and now there wasn't enough crime at about 83, 84 to justify to continue the build. So, how do you do that? You create parole violations that never existed before. They literally put like 600 new parole violations on the books. So now, and I'll give you the best example, I there was a guy in LA, mother dies on a Friday night. He gets the word, goes to San Diego, buries his mother the following down here, buries his mother the following week, goes home, tells his parole agent, he gets a one-year pro violation for leaving the county without permission. That's a true story. True story. Okay. Okay. There's hundreds of stories like that. So they put in, first thing they did, because they needed to, because again, the crime was really not there, but there were enough prolees coming out, you know, because if that's, you know, you're doing one to three years, five to whatever, coming out, that they just simply tighten the screws on what it would take to get a pro violation. And now I don't know if this is true, but I heard this from James Beard, my CCPOA buddy that I really like. He said the reason why they give over a four month violation, or for some reason there were a lot of four months, four and a half month violations. And again, I don't know this to be a fact, but I believe it. And that's because the CDC got broke off for an entire year. Once the guy was in custody for four months and a day, they were allocated the money by the legislature for that body for the year. Again, I don't know if that's a fact, but that's what I heard. Um I mean, I don't put anything past anything anymore. Yeah, it was all the politics was unbelievable. The the creating the gang fights. But my my problem with the CCPOA was they legislated and legislated and lobbied and spent tons of money to get all these bogus laws on the books for the parole violations to guarantee shit. They were the biggest proponents of three strikes that there were. And at that time, because of the media and the crack drug problem, um some people could say three strikes was justified, but we all know it really didn't work. Um it was too fucking draconian. Um real quick.

SPEAKER_02: 41:06

What what exists is law enforcement, the judicial system, and correctional system. Would you agree that all three are necessary if utilized correctly? Absolutely. And what have you seen in it? How have you seen those instead be used? They're all you they all feed off each other.

SPEAKER_01: 41:24

They all absolutely feed off. I mean, one feeds the next, feeds they're the homies feeding each other. It's a fucking team. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's it's a huge it's a huge money-making machine, and human beings, and then you gotta then you know when you were in CDC, then they started this bullshit where we're gonna send you out of state. We're gonna send you to a geo facility. Correct. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 41:50

And they still, I mean, if they So before we go to the geo out of state, man, here you are. They fucking close down the side courts, we Okay, we they tightened up parole violations, then the three strikes, and then take it away from there. What ended up happening? Well, it just it became the absolute what what when did you start in CDC?

SPEAKER_01: 42:09

I began in 2006. 2006. Okay, it was already hell by then.

SPEAKER_02: 42:15

That you got the overcrowding. They built Calapetra State Prison and Sentinel State Prison around 1992, 1993. Right-ish. Right. So that was when the boom was happening.

SPEAKER_01: 42:25

Yeah, and it was happening, and that's when all that's when it got really prison got a shit lot. It got more violent because you had more young kids that were in improperly indoctrinated and disrespectful. You know, back in the day, you might have been a motherfucker, you say, excuse me, you know what I'm saying? Um, the rules, you would ask me about, you know, did I run with anybody? I ran with common sense and I knew how to treat the right people with the right respect. But the the growth of the prisons created also the havoc in the prisons. You know what I mean? The uh the young skinheads and the young Serenos and the young Crips and the young bloods that are running around on two and three yards. Now, don't get me wrong, I went to shoe, I went to Corp and Shoe and all this other crap, Palm Hall, but I never went to a four. I was on threes most of the time. I mean, threes are busy. Threes are busy. Oh, there's a lot of work going on in threes. But um, so it just the the the closing of the mental institutions, the growth of the actual facilities, and then the false stimulation with bogus proviolations, etc., just created the cauldron of shit that the Department of Corrections became. And it was unmanageable for you guys, for us, for I mean, you got day rooms filled, there's no recreation, weights are out the thing, no smoking, no, you know, and you go out on the yard and somebody gets stabbed, and now you're locked down for three fucking weeks. And and the guy only got stabbed because both of them wanted to go to protective custody to get off the fucking yard for a dope debt. You know, it was a slice with, you know, like you cut yourself shaving. But um, it just created a mess. And and it and it still is. Like I said, I I'm out of it now. Who's profiting and how? Oh my god, the the cons-oh, wait a bit there. See, okay, so we have this prison inspect uh expansion, San Joaquin Valley. You know as well as I do. Now you got to bag lunches. Who's profiting? That peanut butter vendor that used to that used to fucking shut corn in Fresno, you know what I mean? Who's now got peanut butter packets, PIA packets, PIA packets, the little the the juice packets, the powder yeah, the Kool-Aid. Yeah, the Kool-Aid things. Who's everybody's profiting? You got guys, I had a sergeant. Holy shit, dude. Right? I had a sergeant tell me, a big fat dude, I can't remember his name. He was he was at Corcoran. He goes, you know what? I used to move furniture and make about 50,000 a year. He goes, I got two boats, a nice house. I'm making about 175 grand a year with overtime. Why not? Who's making the money? Everybody's making the money. You know what I mean? And if you look at those towns, if you were to drive up the five freeway and go into all those little areas where the prisons are now, where there used to be nothing. And now there's car dealerships and there's McDonald's and there's Yeah, like little outlets type of shit. Yeah. So the whole community's making money, which is why then I'm sorry. Then I'm glad you brought you on this thing. Because then what we did was now we created this whole economy in the Central Valley of thousands of people making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. You want to you better keep feeding that beast with bodies, because if we have to close these fuckers down, homeboy's going back to the moving company and the other guys are going to be driving the sparkles truck. You know what I mean? So who makes the money?

SPEAKER_02: 46:00

Who doesn't make the money? So when politicians get on camera and say we want to rehabilitate our inmates, they have no intention.

SPEAKER_01: 46:09

I've been in the CCD. Well, put it this way I started in the California California Department of Corrections. There was no R at the end of the fucking thing. Okay. And I haven't seen one rehabilitative program that transfers to society. You can learn how to pro, you know, write Apple program for a you know 1993 Apple computer, but it it doesn't equate to shit, and there's no place making license plates. The electrical training, the fiber optics that I saw, uh, you might be able to transfer. But there's no rehabilitation going on whatsoever. So would you say it's a facade? Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02: 46:48

What would you say to the American people that the California Department of Correction, the rehabilitation in a nutshell is?

SPEAKER_01: 46:55

It's a factory making money off the unfortunate lives of kids that every vendor, every everybody is profiting on. But it's kind of a necessary. Now, I can also look at the other things.

SPEAKER_02: 47:21

So would you tell a young gang member, hey, knock it off, because you're about to enter a system that is going to eat you alive.

SPEAKER_01: 47:27

It ate me up. I did life on the installment plan. I started when I was 14 years old in Juvenile Hall in placements in the California Youth Authority in camps. I did life on the installment plan. Dude, I had my number. I got on probation in 1974. I got off federal probation, finally everything in 2014.

SPEAKER_02: 47:50

Damn, dude. So basically, what you would tell a young gang member is, hey man, you're gonna bite off more than you can chew, and it's gonna become a lot bigger than you, real quick. Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 48:01

Because the kid, you know what sucks, and you've probably seen this. Young guys that went in on a 187 on a murder when they were 18 years old. All the time. But if they the ones that I that I knew, well, I would say you can put murders out on the street faster than you should have these kids that are just throwing rocks your windows and robbing people and crazy stuff. When the when the kids come out of the hoods at a young age and get, you know, get to a prison and now they're programming and they're going to school and they're doing the college thing that was possible back in the day. A lot of them became amazingly smart or yeah, they're they were already intelligent, but they they'd educated themselves and they could do art or they could do music. When they didn't have the pressure of the homies, of you know what I mean? Of I and I don't care if it's the white skin heads or what. When they could be who they wanted to be. And you know, murderers, when you go on as a murderer, once you start working your way down to like a three, nobody expects that guy to be involved in the riots and everything, because he's got to go to board. You know what I mean? And he's been an OG, he's been down for 10 years, he'd end up do shit anyway. But my point is so you say the young kids, yeah, I would absolutely tell them, stop it.

SPEAKER_02: 49:25

Right now, you just made a reference to a young 18-year-old that has committed murder as intelligent. How can you convey to the crowd, the audience, that, yeah, hey, these some of these motherfuckers are intelligent.

SPEAKER_01: 49:37

My God, I I've met I've met smarter people in prison. Now, I'm I'm I've also met people dumber than fucking dolphins in prison. Correct. But I've also met some extremely intelligent, some extremely injured. The kite system, all the crazy shit you've seen coming out of handcuffs. Uh uh, what do they call it when you stick the thing in the socket to light a I don't ever want to do that? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, just stingers and boiling water tattoo guns. Um but no, there's a lot of kids. The guy the guy that that you interviewed that keeps the thing over his head, I think was in Hyper with him, Enrique something. Yeah. Um he's no dummy. He wasn't a dummy when he was 11, 12, 13. None of these dudes are dummies. You know what I mean? Oh, none of the shock callers are. My God. Um no, it's the fo the ones that they eat. The shock callers that don't care enough about.

SPEAKER_02: 50:34

Oh, you did mention Boxer right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. None of these dudes, I mean, these motherfuck these dudes are intelligent.

SPEAKER_01: 50:40

Absolutely. John, oh yeah. I take nothing away from them. Right. But when they're in that environment, they end up in a, you know, they end up in a drive-by. They got life. They could have been really smart.

SPEAKER_02: 50:56

They just happened to be in the car with the wrong guys. Now, a civilian watching will be like, hey, well, I normal people don't end up in drive-bys.

SPEAKER_01: 51:03

Those civilians are raised out in Thousand Oaks somewhere, and their kids are on a fucking skateboard, and they don't know what life outside of those burbs are. They don't know what real life is. They don't understand. They haven't been in the neighborhoods. They don't understand what low economic neighborhoods are like or poverty is like. So fuck what they think.

SPEAKER_02: 51:27

If you were president of the United States, how would you tackle that? Knowing what we know where the problem lies.

SPEAKER_01: 51:33

I would take all the fucking money out of corrections and about half of it out of the military. And I would, and it's not socialism, it's about bringing people up. I would throw it in these underprivileged neighborhoods. Um and then find people that run the programs in the neighborhoods that aren't going to steal the money and buy Cadillac, you know, all that kind of bullshit that goes on. Yeah, ethical people. Yeah. Um, but we just have to it's almost like you have to shake the whole board up. You know what I mean? But we know prison doesn't work, it doesn't correct anything. Um it's it all everything starts at home.

SPEAKER_02: 52:14

Okay. Now, how do you feel about the unethicalness of so-called prison leaders, CDCR secretary, getting up and bold face lying to the public? How do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_01: 52:25

Well, I was a political science major. I study and the first thing politicians do is lie. We see it today more than anywhere. So when you become, and I got a great, oh, I got I gotta tell you a great story. Uh fucking Warden hated my ass. Um, these guys are all little dick suckers, and they're just kissing ass. You know, they you you've seen the guys come in within three years, they got their sergeant stripes and their lieutenant and a captain, and and and they're just lying to everybody, but they're manipulative enough to be able to snake their way up, and then they just have to say what the fuck they know Sacramento doesn't want us here. And Sacramento's gonna tell the legislature what they want to hear. Everybody's gonna tell everybody, nobody's gonna want to tell you what the fuck's really going on. And this the line cops are fucked.

SPEAKER_02: 53:18

No, everybody in the line is fucked.

SPEAKER_01: 53:20

Yeah. No, but that's true. That's bad. That's true. Bad. But no, the the the the whole the whole structure is fucked. And I there's no way, because you know, we live and breathe every day, there's no way to just pause everything and throw everybody out of jail and go, okay, now we're gonna put the money over here. But there's gotta be uh society has to recognize that lady out in Thousand Oaks that's gonna say, oh, well, why is that kid in a in a drive-by? They've got to be educated. I like that as much as anyone.

SPEAKER_02: 53:52

I agree. I agree. Everybody has to, everybody should know how the what makes the world go round. Absolutely. You can't judge. Everybody likes to be judgmental. And I'm guilty of judging. I'm guilty of being a young CEO, naive, oblivious, thinking ah, these guys don't have any hope.

SPEAKER_01: 54:07

No, it's it's it it's it's human nature. Right. And we also have egos and want to go, oh, I'm better than that person. Correct. You know what I mean? Correct. Um, but the racial thing in there is what I don't know how to suck that out of the society. You know, that's what's going on in this country now. There's a bunch of scared old white people that know that the fucking end is near. Um But as far as administration, let me tell you the biggest hell I went to under Department of Corrections and saw the lies and the bullshit. I was on what they uh I was on what they call the MAC committee, men's advisory committee.

SPEAKER_02: 54:42

Yeah, the MAC. They now call it IAC to be more genderal. Okay. Gender neutral. Okay. Inmate advisory council.

SPEAKER_01: 54:50

So I got voted, and I this is on on the two-yard into hatchabi. This is after I got on my first term, it's back for second or third term, I broke my lick. In prison? No, I was running from the cops. Okay, whatever. So I've got a cast up to my nuts almost. I'm on a two-yard into hatchabi healing, going out for appointments or whatever. White boys came to me and they go, Hey, you got a mouth on you? Will you be our Mac guy? And at that time you weren't looked at as a rat, but somebody had to fucking be able to sit down with uh be the conduit.

SPEAKER_02: 55:25

So So for the viewers out there, a Mac rep is the liaison, an inmate who speaks to the administration and they relay information back to the inmate population.

SPEAKER_01: 55:33

Exactly. Any complaints that the inmates have, we bring them to the administration, and the administration comes to us and goes, okay, well, maybe this is the middleman. And we always get lied to. So Well, we always get lied to. Right, everybody gets lied to. So I'm on the MAC committee, I'm and I'm going back and forth to doctor's appointments. So they're taking me to Bakersfield or whatever, to Hatsby Hospital, some shit. But I got two CCOPA guys unbeknownst to me. Now, my dorm cop is the head of the CCPOA for that region or whatever, James Beard. So I don't know on riding with CCPOA guys. And they're talking about, and they don't know that I'm on the MAC committee. This is a transportation crew that you know, they're not in the facility normally. So they're talking at that time that we used to have telephone booze out on the yard at Dehacheby. And they had, but you had to go out and freeze in the rain. For the inmates? For the inmates. I didn't know that. We used to have phone, we had to sign up and all this bullshit. So we had like four phone booths. Not in the building as well. Not in the building. This is shit. Pre-that. This is what I'm getting to. This is this is the crossover of that. So the phones are on the yard. They've now moved them into the units, the ones like you see, the blue with the whatever. But they're not on yet. Um so oh, I'm sorry, no, they'd been on for a week. Okay. They'd been on for a week. And the line cops that were working the dorms were going, fuck this. How am I supposed to look at a dorm of 150 people and monitor phone calls at the same time? Correct. Can't do that. And this is when they first started double bunking. It wasn't really overcrowded. They just put double bunks in. So I'm going to the hospital, and these two cops are going, Man, these guys are fucked tonight. He goes, We got it. They're turning those phones off at 5 o'clock until they figure out a way to monitor the phones, an automated monitoring system. And we had this had been going on, I guess, for a couple of Mac meetings. What are they going to do? Boom, boom, boom. Right. So I know out of the horse's mouth now that those phones are going off at five o'clock. Well, my dumbass gets back from the doctor and we had a Mac meeting at two o'clock. And one of the guys says, asked the warden or associate warden, hey, uh, and I'm short by the way at this time. I got like 90 days left. Um, hey, uh, what's going on with the phones? Oh, everything's fine. And I said, Well, I don't think it is. I said, I just went out to a uh hospital transport with Joe and Blow, whatever the fuck their names were. And uh they told me the phones are going off at five o'clock. And the ward looked at the cop in the room. He said, Hook them up, take them to the hole. What the fuck? Right there, straight to the hole. I go to the hole. What am I here for? Am I gonna get a 115? I went to a couple of committee things. I'm short. They don't want me out on the yard. They think I'm a rabble rouser and I'm gonna create whatever. So you know, divide and conquer.

SPEAKER_02: 58:32

That's how they was it instant? You said what you said, and they said instant. Put them in clubs, take them away. Instant.

SPEAKER_03: 58:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 58:39

Last words came out other than fuck you on my way out the door to them. And they did shut off the phones. Um so now I'm in the hole, and I got a you know what a chrono is. There's I I was supposed to get medical credit for the time I was in the hospital, all this shit. They're trying to compute my release date. Well, I've computed it, had a couple other people and a counselor compute it, and my release date's supposed to be, let's say, day after tomorrow. I go to, I go to a committee, and they say, uh, I say, hey, my release date, uh, what's going on? It's supposed to be in two days. Oh no, uh, we you're not getting those credits. We can't find the chrono. The oh, I had a copy of it, a Xerox copy of it. So they said, You you evident you were a clerk, you evidently forged the chrono that you submitted with your 602 or whatever. 602 is an appeal form, the way you appeal to uh staff. They go, that that doesn't exist. You got at least another 90 days or whatever the case may be. Jesus. And I said, Well, you know what? I didn't forge that fucking thing. I know it's a legitimate chrono, it was in my C file. And uh as of tomorrow, no, I'm sorry, as of my release date, I no longer recognize you people. I'm not going to listen to a fucking word you say. I'm going to throw the your food back at you. And as far as I'm concerned, I'm being held hostage.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:08

Were you being confident, a smart ass, or were you both.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:13

I hated this fucking war. It's the same warden that put me in the hole. They happen to show up to my shit. You know what I mean? Wardens don't come to uh committee meetings. So James Beard, this CCPLA guy, he now my C files is big, okay? So Beard, he's in there while we're having this meeting and I'm arguing. And uh oh, wait a minute. No, that was the last one. So I go on the hunger strike. I'm sorry. I got ahead of myself. I go on the hunger strike, and every time a cop would come by, I'm doing push-ups and sit-ups, I'm a hog, and I and I'm not cheating. I am not fucking cheating. I had cops try to come through to Hatchabee. There was a catwalk in the back, and they could open up, give you your mail or your groceries or whatever. I had cops try to give me food and I wouldn't eat it. They had access to the back of a cell from a catwalk? Yeah, imagine here's a tier, there's a cell bar, tiers here, cells are here. Behind it, where they work on the toilets and everything, there's a catwalk. I had no idea. Yeah, it's on level two on the hatch. And what do you what is there? A slot and no, there's a big square door. Okay. Probably a foot by a foot by a foot that they could open up. And they that's how they give you your mail. What is it locked with it? Like a padlock? They lock it on the back. I have no idea. That's weird. But that's how they would hand you mail or your growth when you got your canteen or whatever. Okay. So, and that's where I had another cop whispering, hey, we got the meaty outside. So, anyway, so I go on his hunger strike. And then I get other guys who are writing identical 602s over yard and this and this. So now they say, Oh, you're gonna raise hell on the hole too. Now they put me in a quiet rubber room in the hospital with just a hole in the floor. In the CTC and the infirmary? In the CDC infirmary attached to me, level two yard. So they throw me in there, and uh fuck, now I've got like a beard, and I already had long hair. I look like Jesus Christ or whatever. Uh Charlie Manson. So I'm in this rubber room, and this I had this one cop that used to work on my unit. When he worked overtime, he worked and he would say, Bro, you gotta eat, man. You gotta eat. You're gonna end up killing yourself. And they're coming and taking my weight and my blood pressure and everything every day. I'm not gonna fucking do it. Day 26, I go to committee. Now I'm overdue for pro by 26 days right now. And this is because I told the warden to fuck the whole phone thing. So I go to committee, and this is a special one. They got doctors, psychiatrists and all this bullshit in there, right? And that's when the CCPOA guy, James Beard, who was my unicop, he starts going through my C file. And again, because it's so fucking big, and the chrono was 18 put in there 18 months ago, a medical chrono giving me the time credit or whatever. Beard goes like this. It was it was a two-page chrono, so it was taped together and and it was old-fashioned Scotch tape, real sticky shit. Beard pulls the chrono apart. It had been in the C file the whole fucking time. They didn't take it out, they just didn't realize it was stuck behind you know one of the cardboard dividers in the C file. He pulls it back and he goes, Brom, is this the chrono? And this is the yellow one. This is the OG one with the typewriter. And I go, Yes. And then I had my little paperwork and it's the identical copy. And I go, see you fucking creep. I told the warden. I said, I didn't I didn't do shit wrong. Uh I didn't uh forge anything. All right. Take me out, put me. Now they move me all the way to the end of the tier and they left three cell gap because they don't want me whatever count time comes. All of a sudden you hear chains on the tier. And a red, they're bringing me a red jumpsuit, and I got a three-man transportation team coming to get me. They come to pull me out. I said, fuck you guys, man. I said, Where am I going? They said, come out of the cell. They beat the fuck out of me, hog time me. They and this is they do this during count time. They pull the van up to right to the door of the hole so they can throw, because the dorms are right here. My dorm actually is right there. And you can look out the window and see. Oh shit. So they threw me into the van during count. Right, everybody's on their bunk. They can't even look out the fucking window. But they throw me in long ways. And like I'm on my face in between the seats, and the back in those days, you could there's bugler and cigarettes all over the floor. And I ended up I fall asleep. I wake up and I look, and I know I'm in a telephone pole facility. You know, you know what I mean by that? The the long hallways like Chino and versus the 180s and everything you guys got now. So I'm thinking, oh, I'm at Tracy. No, I'm at Vacaville. CMF. CMF. 2 30 in the morning. Long hair. I look like a crazy motherfucker, like I'm a 5150. If you can judge people, it goes to the whole judgment thing. Okay. We get to RR, the cops have a chicken shit manila file folder with one piece of a transportation order. They hand it to the sergeant and they go, he's a 5150. We're gonna go park the van. They didn't go park the van, they left. Okay. They just split out of the facility. So after about 20 minutes, a gorgeous Hispanic sergeant comes over and she goes, I don't know what's going on, but I don't believe them. So you're the one that's gonna tell me the story. But I want you to eat. I said, I'm gonna tell you the story if you believe my story that I'll eat. So I told her, and she goes, Oh my fucking God. Because it was just one prison throwing their shit over to someone else. That does happen. It does happen. They just now, but they put me in a psych ward because that's all she had. Like technically, she said, We're gonna get this worked out in the morning. Da da da da. When you know administrators come in, he put me in a psych ward and make God strike me dead. The idiot next to me, you know, the way they're passing out meds and breakfast or whatever, he cut his cock off and handed it to the nurse.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:53

I don't mean to cut you off on the cutting the cock off part, but at any point prior to that, did you uh make any suicidal ideations? None. Okay. Never. Never homicidal ideations?

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:04

No. I've got no, nothing. I was just I could take on the I could have a conversation with the administration. They didn't like that. Correct. They didn't like they don't like any Mac guys. The Mac guys, the when you have some political influence amongst the inmates, especially every race of inmates, they don't like that at all. They actually don't like correction officers either, believe it or not. Oh, I know they don't. Oh, I know. Oh, I come on, that was a correction officer that saved my life. Yeah. And and oh and the warden was on a cane. When Beard did that, I the warden took his cane and hit the C file. Like to shut it. But anyway, I get up there and I go to the whatever and I go to a couple committees, and finally an appellate guy comes down. It took about a week and a half, still. Oh, because my C file was lost. Because they never sent it up from TAC. Anyway, finally they just they did an immediate release. But I I immediately released from CMF to parole? Right. Okay. Yeah, it was like this the the I was out on the yard, they paged me. I go into this room, there's an appellate guy from uh Sacramento. I want to release immediately.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:12

Within an hour, I was out the door. So you made a comparison between CCPOA and immigration detention centers. Can you elaborate what you meant by that?

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:21

Well, there you mean what's going on today? Correct. What it's watch the stock for GEO, watch the stock for the prison, uh private prison corporation. Break it down for us. Uh well, at the end of the day, there's a there's a two or three private Yaqan, I think Walkenhut is one and Geo's another one. They're private prison corporations. So the evolution of this money-making shit, it's absolutely fucking genius if you're on the money end of it. Because now they build these substandard prison facilities, and they don't have to hire$145,000 a year uh CDC officers. They can they can pay them$9 an hour in Kentucky or wherever they put these facilities. So and so again, so we look with Reagan shutting the metal hospitals down to the growth of the CDC to now creating this whole prison industry nationwide. And how are we gonna fill it? We're gonna get everybody that's got a tan darker than me and throw them in there and let them fight their ways out and prove their ways. It's it's it's it's the bigger monster. And pay people$9 an hour to watch it, and pay them$9 an hour to watch it, but pay Gio$400 a day per head. Facts. And that's exactly what they're doing. Substandard food. Again, the vendors make all the money, and I'm talking too much.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:48

So is it really that they're that genius at the top or that they're that dumb at the bottom and they refuse to accept reality or open their eyes to what's going on?

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:59

Or the perfect you mean the people at the bottom are too stupid to realize what's going on?

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:03

Eventually, at the bottom, you gotta say, wait a minute, man, we gotta stop fighting each other down here because they're capitalizing off of us.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:10

Absolutely. They're capitalizing off of us. Yes. And and that's where well, I I tell a story about a dope. My last day in state prison before I went to the feds. I used to try to tell people, you guys really want to riot over, you want to get your 19-year-old homeboy who's in here for three years for a GTA, you want to put a knife in his hand so he can throw his life away because you were dumb enough to front somebody$400 worth of speed. So it had to, and we had some adults on that yard. But yeah, but how do we educate the masses out here not to go there? Podcast? Podcast. Okay, now this isn't a you're absolutely correct. You're absolutely correct. People like you talk to and and and and the big homies that are respected need to, you know, every every convict says, oh, what are you gonna do? Oh, I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna help kids. Yeah, well, it sounds good at a prol hearing, okay. And some do. I got a buddy of mine. I do. I got a buddy of mine, do I? There are some that are. But those guys are the ones that should be at the parks and at the gyms and at whatever.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:20

You even got active members that have the will to do the right thing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:26

Absolutely. Absolutely you do. I used to talk to some, it's and because they're active, but in retrospect, they realize they're not gonna, they're not gonna become no good, but they also are like, wow, this really is not the right road. And I don't want to see my little homies, right, my cousins, my brothers, my nephews, you know, get into this life. Yep. Because it's it's just gets worse. It doesn't get, it's just gonna, I'm sorry, it's gonna get worse. And with the politicians we have run this country now, the laws are gonna become more draconian. You know, and it's just it's a system that feeds upon itself. And it's disgusting.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:10

Draconian laws, politicians, lies, exposures, social media. Which way do you see the direction going after 2025? For a long time, mainstream media had us by the balls until we realized podcasters have broke out.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:32

This is the this is the median. Okay, and and it's the medium where truth can be told. And so what can happen is guys like you, ex-cops that know what's going on, ex-cons that know what's going on, go to these, I don't even know if they have, but these town halls and say, hey, you're a lying motherfucker. Facts. You're a thief. It's just like the media today. Whenever they get the orange dude up there, why don't they just go, you're lying, dude? We all know you're full of shit. Well, from Trump down, that's the way this country is run. It's been rubbed by robber barons and thieves, you know, or a friggin' uh uh But it's not just Trump.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:12

We had Biden right before him. Oh, yeah. They're all bad. Obama before him. They're all bad, but those two before him.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:17

Those two did not try to get rid of the Constitution and everything. I mean, they're all thieves. Don't get me wrong. This country. Dick Cheney. Dick Cheney. Oh my god, he's a monster. They call him Darth Vader. No, I know our political structure is so it's it's so entwined in capital. And it's not even capitalism, it's autocracy, where you have all these billionaires calling shots. And I laugh, I work around a bunch of multimillionaires, and and and I laugh at them and I go, do you know you think you're hot shit, but you couldn't even cut the grass at Jeff Bezos' fucking house. You know, there's there's literally a difference between guys that are multimillionaires and billionaires.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:58

Facts. As it relates to Rome and corrupt politics, what are the similarities?

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:03

Well, we'd probably be in the Calleglia time. I don't know. Um no, we are gonna be a bigger joke. Okay, I'm sorry. Because that's how we fell. Why is that? Because we are gonna implode, and I think I'm 65. The next 20 years that this country is gonna be, we're not gonna recognize it. If I was to live, I won't recognize what America is in 20 years. Because we are that far away. What's going on right now? And again, we can take this local politics, CDC politics, they're all full of shit.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:41

No, we look at war, we look overseas, we look at uh China, we're a military and Russia, now the cartels in Mexico. Yeah. Venezuela.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:50

Let me tell you something, and that's where that little creep Pete Hexeth is stepping on his dick. Why do you say that? Because he doesn't understand that there are cartel guys in this country right fucking now. There are. Or and pizzoleros or what are sicarios? Yeah. He's got no idea what he's doing. Correct. But and how fucking, you know, I don't think he's seen someone with a with their own dick in their mouth and their legs shoved up their ass.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:17

No, I think, like you think, right? But how far are the cartels willing to actually go in America?

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:25

Well, and I listen the thing is they don't have to go that far in America because he wants to bring the war down there. Okay. But would they go deep here? Would they? Probably not in this decade. But again, I totally believe what's going on in this country as an old white man is that old white people that have been running this country since 17, whatever, they came over here and did the atrocities they did. They know they're losing a grip on everything. They know that by 2035, white ain't gonna be the majority anymore. And they know what horrendous shit they have done to minorities and poor. And you know what? I I can't remember who said this. Poor is a minority. In other words, you can be white, poor, black, poor, any color poor.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:18

But what about the people like Kamala, AOC, lying to the minorities?

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:24

Well, they got their own. What I think once you become a politician, it's almost like I believe once you become a billionaire, you get pulled aside and go, hey, dude, this is the way it really works. I think once you become a politician and you see how it works, and you see that, yeah, you're gonna make a buck forty a year, but you can also get a free jet over here. And by the way, you should invest in on-air stock. And the corruption is just absolute. And AOC, coming from her background, didn't see a lot of money. I think, I think she's legitimate as far as some of her uh beliefs as far as how to better society are there. But she's our she's got stars in her eyes now and think she could potentially run for president and all the benefits Benny's that come from that. No, the left is is fucked. The bottom, okay. Here it is. They don't even really matter. They're the same thing. Correct. They're the same thing, and the people in this country are the ones that have to rise up. The people in this country are the ones that are gonna have to say, no, fuck you. Because the amount of people that are being screwed in this country of every economic uh uh uh level need to just say no more. Correct. We're tired of the lies, we're tired of being ripped off, we're tired of spending billions of dollars on a military, on planes. Do you know the first B-1 bomber? They had to put it on a fucking boat to take it to the France air show because they were afraid it couldn't fly across the Atlantic Ocean. But let's military industrial complex.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:00

Let's agree that the reason they do not do it is for two reasons. One, they refuse to be united and unite against the cause. And two, cowardly. Cowardice.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:12

Well, it's cowardless, but it's also comfort. You know, we're all that's part of the cowardice to me. Absolutely. When you become middle class, once you've got that house and the pool and you know, a couple of kids, uh couch feels kind of good. You got the 80s fucking TV. Now it's like, oh, you want to go raise hell? They're protesting this week. Nah, I got it good. And those are not just the cowardices, but they're the fucking dumbasses that don't realize they are just that far away from being a sh a victim. And and they are absolutely sheep. Facts. And that's the way you keep that's the way we've kept here. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:51

It's like the Roman Coliseum when they would have uh fights. They would do it to put on entertainment for the public. Exactly. While the politicians did their dirt behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:00

While the NFL and the NBA and the Dodgers are doing their thing, and UFC and everything else. No, we we've we've we've managed to anesthetize the majority of society that votes and has some kind of economic pull.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:17

What did COVID-22 what did COVID open your eyes to? The whole fiasco, the whole Oh, sheep.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:26

Oh, the how just easily we could be told anything and not question it. Oof.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:32

And just shut down a fucking society. You know what scared me was when society started to turn on each other, oh, you're not wearing a mask. Oh, absolutely. I'm like, oh fuck you. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:42

And and the guy that says you're not wearing a mask has no more fucking information than the schmuck wearing facts, or probably less information. Facts. And and we still don't know. I mean, yeah, I came out of a goddamn place in China. Okay, that makes sense. That's what it happened. We know Fauci was full of shit. We know they were doing I'm enjoying this conversation with you, man.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:02

These are fucking intellectual, real life problems. Now let's jump right into uh what's it, Narcan and the homeless epidemic and drugs and fentanyl. How do you view that?

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:15

I just we okay. What is fentanyl? Back in the days, like uh again, I was raised in the 60s, and in every ghetto or every economically depressed neighborhood, there was a fucking liquor store on every corner. You want to keep people just like you want to keep the middle class anesthetized watching their baseball and their fucking barker lounger. Well, the poor, you don't want them to fucking rise up. So let's just anesthetize them and let's make sure there's enough fentanyl on the streets to it's a clap, well, it's also too, it's also feeds the prison system. Okay, it's a it's a twofer. So we're just keeping them anesthetized so they don't ever wake up and go, wait a minute, why am I like this? And why, you know, what's the man doing? So fentanyl is the 80-inch TV and the Barca Lounger. Um, and it's also a feeder for the to incarcerate people, et cetera. Um, and it's being done on purpose. Absolutely. I mean, come on, but what's the saying? If if we can't get a Cuban cigar, how the fuck does all this fentanyl get in the country? You know, we could we could stop it if we wanted to. You don't want to. There's too much money in this. You know, everybody makes come on, Clinton was making money off of this crap. We were funding the Contras or the San, whichever one it was, off the cocaine sales. We want a portion of society drunk high out of their fucking minds, so we can do whatever the hell we want to do. So we you have that, okay. So here as we're talking, so you got that portion, then you got the other middle class cowards you talk about. So now you got 70% of the country.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:07

I actually have more hate towards that middle class because they should know better. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:10

They're educated and they now, my God, did you watch 60 Minutes? What they did on 60 Minutes. I did not. You can't even trust them anymore. I mean, American media is bad, but they went over, they they jumped the shark on fucking on Sunday night. But no, the podcast, how do we fix it? What's the solution? Is this and I was just uh it's I thank you for saying you like this conversation. I was at a restaurant with some friends uh three, four nights ago, and we started talking about society and what we're talking about, and and and this guy goes, he goes, I never have conversations like this. You know, when I sit around with my friends or whatever, we talk about I go, well, the next time you're sitting around with your friends, why don't you start that fucking conversation instead of talking about Kim's ass, right, or how however many points sober got somebody else got.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:07

But we're a small few handful, man. I've been on the internet for three years, I've gotten the feel for the world through these, through this lens and through this experience that we're a small handful of people that are actually awake. Right. And this is the only way to wake them.

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:21

And the thing is now how do you get the eyes?

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:24

Well, I think may and then again, this is new for us, right? Podcast, it might take decades, centuries to make force that change. Right. And I got a daughter, you know, the next generation to come to realize, you know what, yeah, these these two old guys talking are telling the truth. These guys are full of shit over here. And that's I literally, I think that's a spasm.

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:44

Literally, I think, bro, don't die. I don't get insurance. I don't drag your ass out to the street. I was just thinking about you thinking too much. It's just gotta be the constant beat of the drum of calling out the liars. Correct. And calling out the liars, and I don't know how to, you know, because this crap's monitored all the time and algorithms and Google. Oh, yeah. But I think this medium that you're doing is gonna be to the betterment of society. I really do.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:20

What have we covered, man? We've covered CDC, CCPOA, uh Narcan, the judicial system, private prisons. Okay. I I here's the next good juicy question. When it comes to the people, right? The people, the people are the people, man. They watch the show. The other day I interviewed Alex Vianueva. He is a former sheriff of Los Angeles and he is running again for Los Angeles. The sheriff or the mayor? No, the sheriff. Okay, okay. The sheriff. I don't know if I said mayor. My bad. So, anyways, right now we have Sheriff Luna, who is the sheriff of Los Angeles, right? And I go and I interview and I ask the questions that I ask, and people are up in arms, like, ah, fuck that guy. That guy's a crook, that guy's corrupt, that guy is the leader of the bandito, deputy gang, sheriff gang. And I'm like, look, motherfuckers, you we don't have many options here. Right. How do you view it, man? That like, hey, you have the public. It is what it is, it's groupthink. I think you know what groupthink is the herdman telling you. What has to change or what has to shift, or people just like in the sheriff's department? When it comes to reality, being a realist, man, um, I don't think Alex Villanueva is a bad choice for sheriff, right? That that puts all political things aside.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:45

I don't know enough about him, okay, but I know enough about the department that it is filthier and scummier. The only thing maybe worse is LAPD. But I watched, um I watched, I mean the upper echelons of the sheriff's department.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26:02

I'm glad you fucking clarified that though, because for you to say LAPD is fucking dirty, I hate to mix in the young cops at the bottom. That has absolutely nothing to do with the dirty.

SPEAKER_01: 1:26:13

Then they come in and they are either on this side and you're a homie, and you're not gonna fucking rat about anything you see, and or all of a sudden you're ostracized and you're out.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26:24

So let's agree. Every well, the majority of law enforcement agencies are corrupt and rotten at the top.

SPEAKER_01: 1:26:29

At the top, at the top. Absolutely. Block Sherman Block was before that. Peter Pitches, the guy they name, Pitches, whatever. He went to fucking Nazi Germany to figure out how to uh build jails. Um I used to watch guys back in the day, the sheriffs in LA County Jail and any OG will tell you this, they used to carry flashlights that were four feet long, shoved with lead, fuck batteries. They were just for beating people with. Um, and then it grew into what we talked about a little while ago. Uh, and the gang modules, when 1700, 1750 got overfilled, then they created the whole gang floor. Uh, used to be 3,000 floor, I don't know what it is now. And these were the gang members' brothers that were wearing badges, that were setting up fights. I mean, we used to we would just tell the cops, hey, uh, do a search so we could all get in the day room because we all knew how to get her out of our handcuffs. So we would literally tell the cop, go ahead and search a fucking tear because homeboy's getting fucked off. And it was literally the brother, cousin, homeboy of the shot caller for that module. I mean, there were Crips, Bloods, and and Hispanic gang member deputies.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:54

So for the last hour and a half, we've had an intellectual conversation. Like two I would like to think so. Yeah, like two prestige gentlemen, right? But we have been talking about law enforcement, prison, and jail. You're talking about big four foot fucking magazines that used to beat people's asses, right? Now, what is your thought in how old you are right now and your experiences and knowing the reality of life and criminals and violence? How necessary is violence in prison to subdue violent people?

SPEAKER_01: 1:28:25

It's well, that's why the classification I I don't know how well it is. There are some people, and you've seen them, and I've seen them, and you see that look, and there's not a fucking thing there, but absolute badass, violent motherfucker that just it it's it's a feeling. It's they've got this aura, and uh, you know now that's the type of person you may have to get extremely violent with. You know, violence begets violence, and the other way you gotta be able to overcome it. Thank you. Um so obviously there's a there's a need, um, but once the person subdued, and but see, this is a whole human nature thing. You can't I tell you, the Rodney King, let me give the the best example, the Rodney King thing. There's a we thing that we have as men as human beings called fight or flight. Correct. You watch that fucking video, and you tell me that you as a man, after being beaten like that, would not have continued to try to get the fuck away, okay, or fight off your attackers. Because those cops were simply beating somebody for kicks. So it was a flight or fight. He didn't, he wasn't resisting, he was trying to stop from being killed.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29:46

I'll be 100% honest with you. I have never fully thoroughly seen the footage from start to finish in its entirety, but I am going to watch it from the lens of is this dude engaging in the fight or flight mentality? Because I am very familiar with the fight or flight mentality. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 1:30:02

And so, so I think, and but then I said human nature gets involved. So you're a CEO and you got some fucking Adam Henry that you're fucking with, but he spit on you. Or he, you know, he gassed you at some point, gas means throwing shit. He gassed you at some point in another part of your career or in another yard. You as a human being want to fuck that dude up. 100%. And now you he did something stupid and you can take your fucking shots. Correct. Of course you're gonna do it. Correct. Any human being would do it. Good. But when it becomes the gang mentality, you gotta remember, I was also when I was a I was a clerk at level three, and I used to fucking watch guys all get together after they stomp the fuck out of someone and get their lies straight. And then I'd have to type up the shit. Um, and that happened all the time.

SPEAKER_02: 1:30:59

Oh my goodness, you're gonna make me break out and sweat, bro. Not that I agree or disagree, I just I'm gonna pee the fifth on that one. Yeah, well, no, but I hear what the hell you're saying. But you know what, though?

SPEAKER_01: 1:31:08

You're throwing, you guys as cops, you're throwing that environment. We're in that environment. No, you're environment. You're you're not lying, bro. It's and we're men. Yeah, we're men, we're men shit's gonna fucking happen, you know? Wow, and you can't you okay, wow, how far we're gonna be.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:22

You know, that's a fucking tell me how that makes you feel as a clerk, and you're listening to this, and you have to type it up, and you're because the manipulator in me, all I was doing was going, okay, I got you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:31:34

Hey, Gonzalez, check this out, man. I'm gonna go give me a sheet of fucking whatever.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:39

There was times where I would tell the clerk they'd get out. Yeah, right, because I didn't want them to see anything. Yeah, um, but damn, dude, that's intense. Yeah, no, I've I've I've I've watched the murder go down. Um no, not on this show, we didn't. But go ahead.

SPEAKER_01: 1:31:56

But no, so but again, this comes down to we're in this potentially extremely volatile, violent environment. And when it comes down to confrontation, that's when the primal animal of us comes out. Facts, dude. And you're going to fight or you're going to defend yourself until you can't. And as long as that struggle is going on. But when you have a situation where you got it, you got the guy restrained and everybody keeps putting boots on him, again, if it's one guy doing it because he's the guy that got gassed, fine. But when you have that herd mentality of seven cops just stomping the shit out of somebody because they can, well, fuck every one of them. Because those guys that don't have the heart on for him, those are the pussies.

SPEAKER_02: 1:32:43

Right. How detrimental is the herd mentality? How bad is it, whether you're a child in elementary with the wrong crowd, whether you're a law enforcement officer following the herd, or whether you're a gang member following the herd, how bad can that be?

SPEAKER_01: 1:32:56

If you are not an alpha male and you don't have whatever the courage or whatever, it could be terrible facts. It could be absolutely terrible. And it's, you know, fortunately, some people are alphas. I mean, you gotta have alpha beta, you gotta have both. But the herd mentality on betas is life-changing, life-threatening.

SPEAKER_02: 1:33:17

Because they almost think that they're alphas by as a whole, yeah, by association. But they're definitely not.

SPEAKER_01: 1:33:23

Absolutely not. I might come on, dude. You were fucking lieutenant. How many times did you get somebody off a yard that walked around like they were fucking the most mucho macho motherfucker in the world of any race, and just go, oh, Lieutenant Bravo, just get me the fuck out of here. I'm done. You know, because you're living at a stress level. Yeah, yeah. When you're done, you're done. I hear you. Yeah, and then, oh, he's got the phones. Right. And by the way, the nurse, she's the one bringing in the fucking tobacco. Correct. 100%. Just let me go to CMC West. 100%.

SPEAKER_02: 1:33:58

100%, man. Right? Yeah. Dude, I appreciated this conversation for real, man. It was a fucking in-depth, dude. Oh, good. What do you do now? You all have any plugs you want to plug in, or anybody can reach out to the city.

SPEAKER_01: 1:34:09

I really could interview you. He got my name, Scott Brome. Uh I don't have any social media. Um, if you Google me, you can find me. Let me put it that way. I'm in a public-facing company business that I own right now. I managed to, after doing Life on the Installment Plan at 53, come out and kind of make a new life for myself. Um, utilizing a lot of the skills that I learned incarcerated. Okay. A prison is a microcosm of probably the world the world to some extent. But no, I'm not plugging anything. I've been asked to do podcasts, and I didn't want to do it. I'm glad you do. You opted to do this one, dude. So am I. Well, there was something about you and the way you carry yourself, and you were interviewing that white boy. Which one? Oh, the big tall white boy. I forgot how tall shit.

SPEAKER_02: 1:34:59

Yeah, that one got over a hundred thousand views, man. Everybody liked that guy. No, he was amazing. He was unlike me, he was of little both of you guys are uh like mentally up there, dude. I can tell. I'm telling, bro, we can read people. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 1:35:14

Emotional and tell. And that's how you survive. I tell people all the time the one cat before, because I know I'm I'm going too long, is in prison, if you ever see the movie Terminator, the first one, when he cut his face been ripped off and he's looking and it's threat or non-threat, and you can see the calculations. Well, when you're a prison, when you're a dude in an extremely dude environment, you're what when I when you come on a new yard and you're doing your fucking first laps, threat, non-threat, bitch, threat, non-threat, actor. You know what I mean? And you you feel out, and then you know who the alphas are. Okay, this guy's potentially a fucking problem. And then you know who the the guys at the nut jobs, the 5150s, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:36:02

So well, hopefully we're doing the Lord's work, man. Hopefully, our words change people's lives and force that change. Absolutely. I hope so. I want to thank you for driving down here, man, and sitting with us. Thank you. Well, thank you, Hector. And you're doing you are doing God's work. Thank you. All right. Well, there you guys have it, folks. Another banger for you guys, man. Changing the world one episode if at a time. If you like what you saw, make sure you hit that link in the description. Love you. Keep pushing forward.