Hector Bravo UNHINGED
Official Hector Bravo Podcast
Hector Bravo UNHINGED
Locked Doors, Hard Lessons: The Jail Taught Him What Ego Never Could
We follow Goldie from a San Bernardino childhood to a disciplined career that starts in juvenile hall, grinds through a tough sheriff’s academy, and faces violence and addiction inside county jails. The throughline is simple: respect people, master details, and talk first.
• latchkey upbringing shaping discipline and empathy
• football injury redirecting purpose toward service
• juvenile hall training in prevention and care
• academy culture of precision and character
• jail intake revealing addiction as a driver of crime
• dorm riots, less lethal tools, and ad seg process
• reading cells and routines to assess risk
• de-escalation, respectful requests, and compliance
• humility over ego across SWAT and patrol
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Hector Bravo on him chaos is now in session.
SPEAKER_02:Welcome back to our channels, Warriors. We are still growing today. Another banger for you guys, man. I found a 23-year-old in-the-department active law enforcement officer, man, from a Southern California law enforcement agency. Can't really give up the game too much. We have none other than Goldie. Goldie, what up, dude? Hey, what's up, brother? Good to have you on the show, bro. Man, thanks for having me. Man, we've been texting uh or DMing uh like a while back already now. Yeah. And where did you grow up at, dude? San Bernardino. San Bernardino, bro. AKA San Mernadino Mernadino? Yeah, it can be, also known as. Is it really that bad? Oh yeah. Then or now? Or both? Or all of the above?
SPEAKER_01:All the above. You know, there's a song that that some local band plays that um they they they the song's about losing your soul in San Bernardino. And I think that could happen if you don't watch out. It's a a band? A band, a local band.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, a local band. Yeah. Is it on the mainstream at all? Or no. Okay. Is it pretty accurate? Yeah. And you mentioned before we got started that you're 45 years old. 45. What year were you born? 1980. I'm not good at math, bro. Yeah. I know I'm not either. If it's more numbers than I have fingers and toes, then I can't do it. So 1980s, man. I'm glad I have you on the show, dude, because like it seemed along the ways like the generations went to hell in a handbasket. Yeah, there's been a change. There's been a change, huh? And we'll dive into that as we go. So what kind of kid were you, dude? A jock, a skater, a nerd, bookworm?
SPEAKER_01:Man, I was a poor latchke kid. What is that? Latchky meaning that I was always locked out of my house. Mom was never home. Single mom, four kids. Um didn't have keys to the front door, so we always had to crawl in through the windows. I was raised by my friend's parents. Ate dinner routinely at my friend's parents' house. And um, but no, you know, it's tough times, but great times.
SPEAKER_02:Sounded like a rough upbringing, dude. At times. I mean, w in comparison, I mean, I know you're humble about it, but in comparison now to like, was that more rough than like an average upbringing these days with the with two heads of the household family?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, there I'd say some of the the rougher times were um just dealing with not having money. And you know, when like school field trips would come up or friends that wanted to go out, their their parents were taking them to do things, and I always knew like, damn it, you know, I didn't have money, I couldn't go.
SPEAKER_02:At that age, how did that make you feel?
SPEAKER_01:Definitely uh lack of confidence in things that I could do, which transpired and and grew into my older years, and it took a long time to shed that.
SPEAKER_02:That's what I was gonna say, and that's what I was getting at, man. Because you're you're like a beast, bro. You're all tatted up, you're in shape, bro. I could tell you're disciplined. I don't know you personally, but I can tell you're disciplined. I kind of want to know where it started from. You believe it started then?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I think it started from me wanting to grow out of my shell, and I didn't know what kind of path I needed to put myself on. I didn't ever have any, like I've always been looking for like older uh like men to follow mentors, and I never had anyone like that. So I kind of looked up to the the muscle-bound movie stars Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone, Sylvester Stallone, and I was always looking through Flex magazine and all these bodybuilders that just man, they're amazing. I'm like, I want to be like that. And so getting on that road of discipline, of of working out, always been into fitness and and eating right, and that definitely has carried over to today.
SPEAKER_02:Who were your friends? What type who what type of crowd were you associating with?
SPEAKER_01:I had good friends, uh, never involved in any type of gang or criminal activity as a youngster. Did you see it? Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely saw it. Um, I hung out with other kids who were involved in gangs, especially playing football in high school. A lot of them were involved, but I I never went down that road. My friends were, I'd say we're just normal kids hanging out, listening to music. We used to listen to a lot of Rage Against the Machine, which I think about now and I laugh at because a lot of the songs are anti-government, anti-establishment, 100%, bro. Yep. And I, you know what, when you're a teenager and you're singing along to songs, and you're not listening to the words. Right. And so I laugh about that now.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, it's about being rebellious. Yeah. When did you get the idea that you wanted to be a cop or law enforcement officer?
SPEAKER_01:You remember growing up in the 80s and cops rescue 911.
SPEAKER_02:I'm from a small town, bro, where our cops sucked. I despised cops. I'm from Brawley, dude. They're fucking assholes in Brawley. I like Brawley, I've been through there. Well, I'm talking about Brawley PD, bro. Oh, yeah. The city in itself is nice. I say nice, but you know what I mean. Yeah, they got the blue angels out there. Correct. Yeah. But yeah, me, it was a different story for me and cops, different, uh, different ideologies, I guess.
SPEAKER_01:But for you, that's what you were drawn to? Yeah. So watching the shows, uh, cops, especially growing up watching that, and seeing the cops around, like you see them in real life, and they always just seem like like superheroes and like just untouchable. As in the fact of like I wanted to be that, but I would never get I could never do that. That wasn't me. I couldn't attain that. Well, San Bernardino's a big city.
SPEAKER_02:I think big city cops have better personalities than small city cops. They got they don't really trip on the small stuff.
SPEAKER_01:No, because there's too much big stuff going on.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly, bro. Like real crime. Not fucking tinted windows and bullshit. So after high school, what was your did you have a game plan?
SPEAKER_01:I wanted to play football. I was all into football. Wasn't super great, but I was pretty good at running downfield and like crashing into people. Okay. So after high school, I went to uh a local community college and I played two years of football there. Okay. And it was in my second year, we're playing uh community college team out of Arizona, and I broke um a disc in my neck between C6, C7 vertebrae. Damn, bro. And that really changed a lot for me. Did that impact you physically? Oh, yeah. I was in um, I was in a neck brace for about four months, and I was immobile, in bed, and I got bed sores. And for anybody who doesn't know what a bed sore is, they're they're very painful. It's like pockets of pus that form on your back because you just don't move. Right. And when I got older and became a deputy and investigated elder abuse cases with bed sores, I knew exactly what that was. And I knew exactly what they were feeling. I could have that empathy because I had them before.
SPEAKER_02:Is that a thing of elder abuse? They refuse to care for them, and therefore they develop bed sores?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it it can it definitely was like a sign or a symptom. Uh yeah. Yeah. Um people who are bedridden need to be rotated from side to side to back to out of bed to sitting. Um can't just leave people unattended.
SPEAKER_02:Now, do they do that negligently or purposefully?
SPEAKER_01:Uh it could be both. It depends on what their intent is. If sometimes you have caregivers who are uh paid caregivers or family members, and they just they're people are lazy. Lazy, huh? And if they don't care, they won't do their job.
SPEAKER_02:This current agency that you work for now, is that the only agency you've been in the entire time?
SPEAKER_01:For law enforcement, yes. But right before that, in 2002, I worked for a probation department as a probation corrections officer in juvenile hall. In 2002? 2002.
SPEAKER_02:How old were you then? Uh 21. Okay. Uh yeah, I'm horrible at math, but I graduated high school in 2002. So you're a youngster, 21. Yep. Juvenile in in the IE in the empire?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Were there little gangbangers?
SPEAKER_01:Man, there were little gangbangers. There were little brothers of friends that I went to high school with. But I'll tell you what I really learned there. And there was a couple who's who that were there, and I'll never forget. I'll tell you about two of them. There was a little girl, and she was a cute little thing, and she had killed her elderly neighbor over some cats, and it was like a brutal murder with uh hammers, hatchets, type thing. And I remember seeing her, and there was no violence in in her eyes. Like she's just this little kid, but it really lets you know what anybody is capable of.
SPEAKER_02:What the hell was uh what the hell was the circumstances surrounding the bludgeoning with the hammer?
SPEAKER_01:It was the uh the the little girl wanted one of her cats, or I don't remember the entire details of the story, but wanted a cat, and the uh the neighbor wouldn't give her a cat. And so when the neighbor was sleeping, the little girl killed her.
SPEAKER_02:And she was there in the juvenile hall that you were working. Yeah. Now, when it comes to boys and girls, coed, was it mixed? Were they separate compounds? What did it look like?
SPEAKER_01:No, it it it was it was separated, um, the boys from the girls, and typically male COs will work the male side and female COs will work the female side. I ended up on the female side one day um when a female CO called in.
SPEAKER_02:Hey Warriors, if you haven't already signed up for our all new website, HectorBravoshow.com, make sure you sign up at the link below, HectorBravoshow.com to watch explicit, uncensored, never before seen prison footage. With that, love you. Keep pushing forward. They they needed a replacer. There were no other female COs. That's interesting, bro. That seems like a massive liability, but I hear what you're saying.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I was doubled up. I was with a female C.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay, doubled up. Yeah, yeah. Damn, dude, still, oof. I would not want to work in a number one, a juvenile hall. Number two, like a female juvenile hall, man.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was it was interesting, and and you learn a lot. You you definitely learn that that violence and you know can be can come in any form, in any age.
SPEAKER_02:Did you have to go to an academy to be a probation guard?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yeah. It was uh it was a very short one. Um, I'm gonna say probably eight weeks, maybe. Where? It was at the the facility. And so you learn how the all the policies, you learn the the big stuff or the the room checks. They don't call them cells, they're rooms. And what are you taught to look for? Contraband? Yeah, definitely do do searches, but really it's to to look for for signs of you want to prevent the the kids from hurting themselves, from committing suicide. So you you look for signs of of something that doesn't look right. And and so you you want to make sure that that you protect themselves from themselves.
SPEAKER_02:And these kids do not have access to the public? Correct. They're like locked in between behind fences, gates, or do you have any useful force options on you? We had uh OC. Pepper spray? Yep, pepper spray. Like the little one or like the MK9?
SPEAKER_01:The I I don't remember exactly, probably the little one. I I don't remember um MK9s. Did you guys ever have to use it? I never did.
SPEAKER_02:Was there fights in the juvenile hall?
SPEAKER_01:No. Why? Every it wasn't as like like movies and TV really upplay things. And in my experience there, I was there for a year. Uh I don't remember really having any problems at all.
SPEAKER_02:No problems. Everybody's just chilling, posted up. Pretty chill. Okay, that's you know that's a good thing. It's surprising though, because of like you said, TVs and movies show it's off the hook.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I'm sure there were fights, but from from my my recollection, again, we're going back to 2002. I just don't really I've never had problems with people.
SPEAKER_02:So was there a break in time between that agency and your current agency?
SPEAKER_01:No, no break. So during that time that I worked at Juvenile Hall, I was going through the background process with the Sheriff's Department. And because I I wanted to work for the Sheriff's Department. Right. And back then it took the background process was a long time, about a year. Where it's like three months. Yeah. And so I was just waiting, waiting my time.
SPEAKER_02:The entire the entire process was one year or the background investigation portion was one year?
SPEAKER_01:The the entire process. Okay. Yep. So I applied for both agencies at the same time. Okay. Instantly got picked up with probation. And then I was just working at juvenile hall, waiting, get hired by the sheriff's department. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Now, when it comes to that, probably back in that time frame, was it one of those things where you have to work the jails first before you can go to the streets? Yep.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so uh left juvenile hall on a Friday, started the academy the following Monday, and and you talk about a shelf shock. And and I had no family in military law enforcement, no one to help prep me. I had no idea what I was getting into. Didn't know how to shine my boots, didn't know how to iron my uniform. And I mean, I was I was a soup sandwich.
SPEAKER_02:It's kind of weird because right now you said you had no family member of the military to put you up on game, but neither did I when I went into the military. You know what I mean? It's kind of like I could relate to getting shocked. The shock value. What were some of the things that shocked you? The yelling of the drill sergeants?
SPEAKER_01:Not the I knew there was going to be yelling. I I had talked to some other people. So before I got hired with probation, I was a police cadet at a local community college. Dude, you were doing it all, bro. Yeah. I mean, my my whole adult life, I've been public sector law enforcement. That's good. And and so there were old retired LAPD officers that worked at this community college. They were double dipping. And so they would tell us about the academy and about law enforcement and patrol. And so I kind of knew what to expect just from their stories. So the yelling wasn't the shell shock. It was the small details of the shining of the boots, the ironing of the uniforms, the standing at attention. I remember it took me weeks to figure out how to write face and left face and about face. I mean, if I was not very coordinated, not really a dancer, and it was just everybody falling all over the place, including myself. So, and then how to just I mean, I've been on teams, football teams, and but the team aspect in the academy is completely different.
SPEAKER_02:So elaborate, elaborate to an in to a youngster that's played football and is thinking about law enforcement. What is the difference between the team work?
SPEAKER_01:So the okay, teamwork is I think pretty universal, meaning people working together in cooperation toward a common goal. On a sports team, you can have someone who's uh sloppy, meaning maybe they they cut corners, but they can still score goals and points. And it it doesn't matter if they're sloppy as long as they're scoring points. So they they can be disrespectful, they can be a whole lot of things that are negative, but as long as they're scoring points, then then they're on the up and up with that team. In the academy, man, the character matters. You can't be um you you're your your communal ethics among everyone need to be on point because you really learn that fishbow concept and balancing the studying for the testing, constant testing, right? Post and maintaining yourself, maintaining others. Like I had never used a lint roller ever in my life before the academy. And I get there and everybody's rolling themselves. Got to be crisp, pristine. And so all those little details that maybe some superstars on sports teams lack that don't matter as long as they're scoring points, all that matters. And so you start to learn the importance of why shiny boots are important, why your crisp uniform is important, why carrying your battle bag and your off-gun hand is important, why your right face and your left face movements are important, why all these small details are so important. And how working together. So you have that there, you're always gonna have slackers on a team. There's always gonna be one or two, you know, that guy. And we had that guy in our class, and they would always come in late, like minutes before we're gonna start. And so we would strip them down, help him get dressed in his uniform, and always make it just by the skin of our teeth. So the you couldn't get by without everybody working together. Facts.
SPEAKER_02:What you just said, man, perfect example definition, and that mirrors law enforcement. So, like the example you just gave absolutely mirrors uh military, excuse me. It mirrors the military. And they do say law enforcement agencies are paramilitary. Absolutely. Um, and it is attention to detail. It's the little things that will get you killed if you don't fucking pay attention. Yeah. And you would eventually go on to a tactical unit where you would get to understand that even more. Um, did you find that academy to be physically tough?
SPEAKER_01:Very really, it was I was in good shape going in. Right. I've always been in pretty good shape because growing up I wanted to be like those those superstars I saw. And it it was see, I think physical and mental are really one. I don't I don't see them as separate because if you are physically strong, you're gonna be mentally strong. If you're mentally strong, you're gonna be physically strong because you can push through.
SPEAKER_02:I beg to differ. I've met a lot of like meat heads that are have quit in them.
SPEAKER_01:You know what I mean? Yeah, and there's exceptions to every rule. And and you're a hundred percent right. Um I I found it physically demanding because. My head, I wasn't the way that I'm now, I wasn't back then. Physically or mentally? Mentally. Okay. So I I had defeat in me because I lacked a lot of self-confidence.
SPEAKER_02:I get it, bro. I get it. It's a build, it's a building process.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:We all just don't wake up like this fucking one day crushing life.
SPEAKER_01:No, not at all.
SPEAKER_02:It's a process. When you got your, what do you get? A badge, a gun, did you feel proud? Oh, very accomplished?
SPEAKER_01:Accomplished. I'll tell you one of the proudest moments on graduation day getting pinned by Sheriff John McMahon. Okay. And he was a sheriff at the time. And uh getting called up on stage and and getting that badge pinned on my chest. And I mean, it it meant it felt like every ounce of sweat and stress and suffering that that I endured over that six months academy. Six months, dude. Which was extremely rewarding. I mean, anything that comes easy isn't rewarding. 100%. But when you sweat and just feel demolished at the conclusion of something, man, you feel accomplished. Academically, was it challenging for you? Very. So I had never read a book. So going through through through school, high school, and we got by on Cliff's Notes. Right. And you know, there was no Google or AI. Correct. But read Cliff's Notes and the public school system. I mean, if you if you show up on time and attend class, you're gonna pass.
SPEAKER_02:Dude, Cliff Notes, you took me back on that, bro. I just remember encyclopedias, Cliff Notes. Yep. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And uh so my my studying wasn't great. I mean, I always did my work um and reports and everything. So, like that discipline of getting stuff done, I've always had. So, but the studying crimes against persons, crimes, crimes against children, crimes against the environment, property crimes, like learning all this new stuff, plus your penal codes, plus your radio codes, policies. It's just this inundation of so much information and absorbing it and then getting tested with practical applications, plus all the running. And I mean, the our academy is dialed in. It is, it is it sounds like it. I'd say exceptional. That's a good thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That's a good thing. Um so six months later, you start working in the jail right away?
SPEAKER_01:So, yep, graduate. There was two weeks of jail ops. Um, now it's six. Is that like an orientation? Yeah. So it's where you because the the jail policies are, you know, it's it's not patrol. So you learn all about Title 15, state of California, you know about those.
SPEAKER_02:Oh shit, I didn't realize that county uses Title 15.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. And then you you got type one, type two, type three, type four jail facilities. Okay. And each facility has different uh state rules about how long an inmate can stay there, like overnight or no longer than a week. Because the the jails are the sent uh our county is massive. So there's a lot of jails and different courts, and so you have main housing hubs, um, and inmates are constantly being transported. So you got the whole bus transportation system. So you you learn all about that in the jail ops class.
SPEAKER_02:Did you see a lot of inmates that would go through like a revolving door? Absolutely. You would? Yep. So they would just come back every over so often and be like, hey, what up, man?
SPEAKER_01:Well, working in uh in mail intake. Mail intake. Working mail intake. So that's where when uh suspects are arrested on the street by the arresting officer, when they brought to jail, they're booked into jail and have to go through the mail intake process. So that's where the the as soon as they enter the front. Did you work there? I did. Did you like bounce around different positions and post? Yep, yeah. We would get moved around. So that way you you learn the different positions. Yeah. And it uh really adds your your subject matter expertise. So in um in mail intake, though, you could work there just in a week, you could see some of the same frequent flyers coming into the door. And these aren't the violent crimes, of course, because they would stay longer, but you would see the you're drunk in publics, you're um under the influence of narcotics, uh DUIs. You would see frequent people coming in routinely.
SPEAKER_02:If you were given the powers of being the governor, would you be able to address that problem of having frequent flyers coming through county jail, or it just is what it is?
SPEAKER_01:That's a complex question. I I think uh I don't think there's any fast solution to it. Um, it's uh the or we have a very good system, but it's not perfect. There's no such thing as any perfect system in the history of land. Uh we we do have our system has its flaws, uh, but I think it's good. And to to fix it, we just were I think we need to attack the problem. So for example, if you're you're local public drunkards, the the problem is is their addiction to alcohol. Correct. So that makes sense. Just by arresting them, and and so arresting them is for their own safety. By taking in a uh public drunk who can't care for themselves, you're you're saving them from getting hit by a car or uh putting themselves in some type of danger. Facts. Facts. So so by bringing them in, holding them until they're sober and releasing them saves them for that day, but it doesn't solve the problem. Right. And it addiction is a massive problem.
SPEAKER_02:Working in the jail, did you come to realize that addiction is a massive problem in Southern California?
unknown:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Why? Because you were seeing so much of it?
SPEAKER_01:So much of it. Very rarely would I say uh would we see a new restee come in who wasn't under the influence of something. What the heck? Which which tells which tells me and anybody who's ever worked in the mail intake is that it drugs and alcohol are a problem.
SPEAKER_02:Here's a fun fact. I've been to jail three times, all three times I was under the influence of alcohol. Fun fact. But uh I wonder if that has to do with Southern California and the border being right here with Mexico, being able to push the dope that quick into the United States. Could be.
SPEAKER_01:I think proximity does play a part.
SPEAKER_02:How long did you stay in the jails?
SPEAKER_01:I was there for a year and a half. So from June of 03 till December of 04.
SPEAKER_02:Were you familiarizing yourself with gangs while you were working inside the jail?
SPEAKER_01:Yep. It was working in the jails is equivalent to, I mean, attending uh law enforcement university. So you're there and you you take a young guy like myself who I never I didn't run with gangs and I never used drugs, I wasn't involved in criminal activity, but I learned real quick about what people look like when they're under the influence of meth or heroin, and those people look different. Alcohol, you see what violence looks like in people's eyes, cold-blooded killers. And when I was there, there was uh really some very high-profile inmates there, and gang affiliated? Gang affiliated, not all of them, but most of them and learning that respect, mutual human respect between people. I remember thinking to myself, man, like how does this work? Like I'm just 22 years old, and now I'm dealing with this violent, multi-sophisticated criminal. And you you figure it out. You you learn about that that mutual respect and what they're entitled to, and you don't mess with people.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. You don't mess with people. Is that something you had to figure out, learn the hard way, just kind of gather by just learning, observing?
SPEAKER_01:I've always had a natural respect for people. I've that that's that's not my my demeanor. I I don't mess with people because I don't like to be messed with. Right. But I would see some other deputies play games and it didn't work out too well. For example, when you have someone who's already sentenced to life or looking at all day, they have nothing to lose. Correct. They're not going anywhere. So if they don't want to hand their tray back to you through the tray door, it's a problem. I never had problems with any of the inmates getting metal trays back, um, cuffing up uh a lot of the high security ones they have to cuff up to the rear to bring them out to the rec yard or bring them to the the nurse's station. Uh some some of the other deputies would. And it could be little things like if they asked for toilet paper, I'd give them toilet paper. If on their special diet food tray, if they were missing, let's say they they got double peanut butter packets and there's only one on there, I'd give them another packet. Yeah, I mean you kind of have to. Yeah, it's not a big deal. Correct. If if they if they wanted um a complaint form, yeah, I'd get them a complaint form.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Not a big deal.
SPEAKER_02:Right. You earlier you mentioned a lot of characteristics and you mentioned high profile inmates. Uh, did you notice a direct correlation between the violent inmates and the high profile inmates? Could you tell that they were violent or capable of being violent? Oh, absolutely. You could see it in their face. I mean, we would know what their charges were. And please walk the audience through maybe a new officer that has no idea what signs to look for. Starting off when you said you would see their commitment offense.
SPEAKER_01:So starting off looking at their cell. And and any anybody who's ever worked in corrections will know that you're hardcore guys, their cells are immaculate. It's like straight military boot camp style. The bed rolls, the the beds are rolled up, the sheets are folded, their uniforms or their their jumpsuits are crisp and uh creased. They they have chronos for white tennis shoes, and they are they don't have bleach in there, and but they keep those shoes pristine, clean, and white. A lot of uh very high self-respect and very respectful where your less sophisticated, lower-level criminals like your youngsters, much more difficult to deal with, having something to prove where your higher security guys, they've already proved what they wanted to prove. Through acts of violence. Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Did you ever learn anything from them? I mean, them not directly teaching you, but I mean from your observation is that you learn how to maneuver.
SPEAKER_01:Not so much maneuver, but I used to I I used to watch them like they would watch us and I'd watch them. 100%. And and what I noticed about them was how disciplined they were. So I I I respect discipline and routine. And um not their acts, but their daily routine. Right. And so they would keep track of the time by watching us walk our logs. And so we'd walk logs about every 50 minutes, because that'd be done every 60, if I'm remembering correctly. So we do it about every 10 minutes ahead of time just to make sure that we're on time. And whenever we'd pass, they would, their routine would be to either drop and do burpees, push-ups, air squats, and all day long in their cell and maintain themselves. And physical fitness is so important because they knew that the physical, strong body, strong mind, and that's how you keep from letting that place eat you up.
SPEAKER_02:That and it's beneficial for them to do burpees so they can jump up in the middle of a riot, like we see them do over speaking of riots. Did you observe any violence in that jail time frame? 100%. Oh, you did? Yeah. Kind of threw me off because you said in the juvenile hall you did not, and here in the jail you did. Like what kind of violent acts did you see?
SPEAKER_01:What when it happens, it happens so fast. So we'd be in the housing units, especially in the dorms. So in the dorms, uh you have let's say six separate segments. So imagine like a pizza, and the pizza has slices, so like six slicings, and you'd have uh bunk beds on the bottom floor tier and bunk beds on the top tier. Uh maybe say maybe a hundred inmates total per segment. Mixed races, mixed gangs, or isolated? Uh for mainline mixed. So you're talking about dorms with mixed gangs. Yep. Okay. And um now I was never classification, so I I didn't house inmates. I worked back in the blocks and in mail intake. Um, so I don't I can't comment on what gangs and but they so you could be in a housing unit, uh, maybe in the bubble, you know, control booth, and everything would be code four, quiet, TVs on, people on the telephones, people reading the newspaper. They had newspapers back then, I don't know if they still do. And then all of a sudden, boom, it would pop off. And you'd have you'd have your your inmates that are fighting, and then you have the ones that weren't involved, and they'd step off to the side and watch. But it happens so fast it's like a car accident where traffic is flowing just fine, and all of a sudden cars start crashing into each other. Was there ever any major riots in those dorms? Yeah, it'd be a full, full riot, like it full 415, uh 20 or 30 inmates fighting.
SPEAKER_02:That's fucking interesting, bro. Because I would imagine a riot in jail would be different than a riot in prison. But I mean, essentially they're kind of the same thing, motherfuckers fighting. Yeah, it but it just seems more kind of more wilder in a jail setting. What kind of shit can you do to stop them in a jail setting?
SPEAKER_01:Use the less lethal options you have available to you. So pepper spray, uh, they have pepper ball launchers now, uh beanbag shotguns. If weapons are being used, you want to stop people from getting stabbed.
SPEAKER_02:I guess here, walk me through this. Because I guess in a prison riot, the you will be in the same area as the inmates fighting. In every jail video I've seen, the deputies are behind the door behind something. Is that protocol?
SPEAKER_01:That that's the way that in my experience with our facilities, yes. So it's you have the segments, and the the deputies will enter the segment to walk their logs once an hour. But other than that, they're not in the segments.
SPEAKER_02:So they're probably just using that barrier of safety and just gassing the shit out of the inmates. Yep. And eventually do they comply? Yes. In the jail setting, do they utilize weapons during these riots? Absolutely. Like what kind of weapons? Edged weapons.
SPEAKER_01:So you have like your tomahawks. Oh, you actually do have those. Uh I I saw more tomahawks than I did, like Shanks. Right. Um, because they're just easier to make because everybody has razors. True. Um, and toothbrushes. But I I did see some, but definitely any type of sharp edged weapon that they can get.
SPEAKER_02:I would imagine it was just locking a sock type of shit, soap in a in a sock, probably. Batteries, you know. Um now, in a riot like this in a dorm setting back in the day, did the inmates get moved to some type of restrictive housing, isolation?
SPEAKER_01:They they called it uh administrative segregation back then, ad seg. Yeah. I don't know if they still have that though with the change in the laws.
SPEAKER_02:And does the ad seg lockup unit look different than a regular housing unit?
SPEAKER_01:Yep. So the the ad seg would be a set of four cells together, separated from the main housing unit, and there'd be um all in a line, and then there'd be a shower that was in the hallway that connected the four cells, and um no TV. There would be a telephone that, depending on what their situation was, they would have access to or not.
SPEAKER_02:What were the doors made out of peripherated like holes or like solid doors with the windows?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so solid metal doors with the uh windows and then a tray door. And so a tray door was for food or for having their hands come through to cuff up.
SPEAKER_02:In the jail setting, did you guys ever have to do cell extractions? Yes. Did you ever participate in one? I did. What would be a circumstance that in maybe in jail would need to be extracted?
SPEAKER_01:If eventually they have to come out, either for right. So so things have changed since I was there. I bet, bro.
SPEAKER_02:And now you give them a cookie and a hand job in a television, tell them you're up you're sorry for bothering them. And as long as it's a good cookie, man, then they'll come out. I'm sorry I disturbed you, Mr. Inmate. It won't happen again, buddy.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I'll tell you uh what one of the extractions that we did. So there was an inmate that had spit in the face of a deputy, and which is an assault. So they were put in adseg, and we let them out for a shower. Um, this was a couple days later, and they wouldn't lock it back down into their cell. Well, there were other inmates in ADSEG who had to come out and get their shower. Correct. But you can't mix them. So we go through the de-escalation process, uh, which didn't work. It was futile. And and eventually you you have to take action. So it wasn't right away. We we tried to talk them, talk them into going back and sell and locking up, but this person wouldn't. So we made entry in there as uh they call it the SRT team, the the special response team, and um wearing protective gear and have a shield and using pepper spray, less lethal options. Um, and it was effective. And so we got them to lock back up.
SPEAKER_02:Now, you just stated that you guys attempted to verbally communicate with the individual to get them to comply. What advice do you have for brand new correctional officers when it comes to verbal communication? How important is verbal communication over strictly using force right off the top?
SPEAKER_01:It's everything. So, on top of that, it's very important to realize the situation that you're in. So if you are in some type of imminent situation, you got to feel it on the back of your neck. If you feel like, man, this is gonna go bad, I'm gonna get hurt, then you need to respond to that accordingly. But if it's not that type of situation, then, and if you don't have to go hands on, if you don't have to go to different less lethal options, weapon options, then talk to people. And what I have found through my career is that if you just talk to people like a normal human being and you treat them with respect, again, it's not our job to judge people for why they're locked up. Or judge people when we're out on the street on patrol for what they're being accused of. And and put that aside and talk to them like you would talk to a family member or to a friend. And just, hey, brother, can I get you to do this for me, please? They'll do it. They most now you have some people that are that they're committed to whatever their cause is. 100%. And you can't, there's nothing you can do to convince them to go with the program. But those are so few and far between. I'll tell you on a lot of on SWAT calls with barricades, when you have someone who's wanted for a violent crime and they're barricaded in front of their house or inside their house, there are times where nobody has ever asked them to come out. And if you call them on their cell phone and you just talk to them and say, hey, this is why we're here. We have a search warrant for the house. We have an arrest warrant for you. We're not going to leave. Will you come out and surrender?
SPEAKER_02:Now is that the job of a hostage negotiator or just a regular SWAT operator?
SPEAKER_01:It could be anybody. Anybody. It could be the patrol officers who are there first, they can ask. It can be the SWAT guys, when they get there, they can ask. It can be a crisis negotiator, they can ask. But one of the questions that is asked is, hey, has anybody even asked this guy if he's willing to come out? And just goes to show that if if you just talk to people, just talk to them normal, give them that respect. Don't judge them for whatever the reason is. And a lot of people, most people comply.
SPEAKER_02:My experience, my experience tells me the same thing, man. I had a fairly easy, decent, great career, man. Because I was able to communicate and articulate, especially towards the end of my career when you develop those skills. Would you say that communication skills, um, you kind of have to build up and learn them?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah. It's I I don't think it's you're not born knowing how to communicate with people, but I'll tell you, working inside of a jail or prison with people who have nothing to lose, they they have nothing to lose. And they they could they could hurt you or kill you at any time. And I would feel that walking my logs through those dorms, one deputy against a hundred inmates, they're allowing me to walk through that dorm. They're letting me do my job. And and you you feel that that respect that when when you walk by, you just tell people, hey, what's up?
SPEAKER_02:Would a person with a Billy badass bad attitude, a deputy in there, would it not be beneficial for him walking around with a chip on your shoulder, thinking that you can take on a hundred guys? Well, that in bad.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and and there those people exist in every industry. Correct. In in every type of job. And they they have a rough time because there's always something, somebody bigger, bad, or tougher than you. Facts. And having a having an empathetic, humble heart, and you let people know that you you're here for a job, you you care about what you're doing. If they need something, you will help them, but you're not you got nothing to prove. I'm not not badder than anybody else.
SPEAKER_02:Right. No, I like that, man. Um that experience seemed like it helped you tremendously going over to patrol. Would you eventually go to patrol? Yep. Are you put on some type of like field training, FTX portion?
SPEAKER_01:Yep. So year and a half in the jails, and then I went on to work about 13 years of patrol.
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