Hector Bravo UNHINGED
Official Hector Bravo Podcast
Hector Bravo UNHINGED
Inside Prison as a Teen Lifer: Race Riots, Lockdowns, Survival
Welcome back to our channels, Warriors. We are still growing today. An unbelievable episode, man. I'm gonna have a hard time diving into it because of the circumstances. I have a guest today by the name of Brian, who is a former inmate for the California Department of Corrections. His original sentence was three life consecutive sentences plus 60 plus three. And we have him here today. What up, Brian? What up, man? Hector Bravo on him.
SPEAKER_01:What's up, brother? How you doing, man? Thanks for the invite.
SPEAKER_03:Welcome, dude. Oh, shit, bro. You said you're from LA, Los Angeles. That's right.
SPEAKER_01:We world champions, bro.
SPEAKER_03:How old are you?
SPEAKER_01:How old are you? About to turn 40 in a few months, bro. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:39. 39. Yeah. Take me back to when you were 13 years old. What kind of stuff were you up to? No good, brother. No good? No.
SPEAKER_01:My story is not much different than most kids in Los Angeles growing up in the tough neighborhoods. You know?
SPEAKER_03:Was it a poverty issue? Was it a lack of opportunity? Location?
SPEAKER_01:I think it's a mixture of a few factors. One, um, the environment, the neighborhood, school, my parents, their parenting style, the fact that they had to work all day and not get to really be there to you know supervise me or to let me let me ask you about that, man, because I've been telling people on the Instagram lately, hey, raise your fucking children, raise your children right.
SPEAKER_03:And my parents worked like yours did. Do you see that as an issue? I mean, they're doing the right thing. Parents are going to work and they're putting um food on the table and a roof over the head, but do you see that as an issue? Or can it be an issue for not raising children or being present? Absolutely. You do?
SPEAKER_01:Why? Well, I'm proof of that that if you don't, if you're not present with your children, regardless, regardless of trying to make ends meet, if if you're not there for them and you don't raise them, someone else will. And that's who raised me. The streets.
SPEAKER_03:Well, at this stage where I'm at, reflecting back.
SPEAKER_01:But going back, yeah, you share so much. You know, you're broken, brother. You're broken. So when you're broken, you have so much to have in common and share with other kids that came from the same dysfunctional home that you did, or whatever traumas that they might might have had, then you know, you have so much in common, you you create bond, you know, and uh especially in a violent environment like the brown community, bro. There's always most brown communities, don't just have one gang, bro. They have multiple gangs. And they're in your neighborhoods, they're in your schools, and those are the things that kids have to deal with. Well, at least in my era, you know, it was a heavy presence of gangs everywhere you went.
SPEAKER_03:It almost seems like a vicious cycle. It almost seems like like, okay, similarities between youth, and then I would also assume people join gangs for a form of protection.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, yeah. I mean, I'm sure that was a factor as well in my case, where eventually you're tired of getting chased home from school from a different, you know, because you live on the other side of the block or on the other side of the of the the bus stop. You know, you live on the other side of the of the of the you know the city or the block that belongs to another gang.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:You know, as an adolescents, bro, you know, that you just you know, you bond with the kids you grew up with and their brothers are from the gang already.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, it's a generation.
SPEAKER_01:You know what I'm saying? My cousins were already gang members, my uncles were gang members, and uh my parents might not have been, but the the influence was was heavy, bro. You know, the option was there, and I took it.
SPEAKER_03:Do you think government entities and politicians enjoy when minorities kill themselves at the bottom?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:Why because they're able to get away with their bullshit up at the top and and pretend that they're coming up with solutions for money.
SPEAKER_01:Well, something I learned is that uh shit doesn't go up.
SPEAKER_03:Shit for uh goes downhill, shit rolls downhill, right into the streets of Los Angeles, man.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, the gangs were not in Beverly Hills, they're not in Mission Viejo, they're not in Carlsbad, bro. They're in they're in brown and black communities. And I'm sure you know there's some white communities that are like Elsinore, like Lake County. I met a lot of uh white people from uh Lake County, from Riverside, right? Some Berdino, and though they have those issues too, but not like the brown and black communities, you know. So I am definitely a believer that our communities have been underserved for a long time, you know, for a long, long time.
SPEAKER_03:Not only underserved, but I would say like misrepresented as well.
SPEAKER_01:That and you add white supremacy, you know, that's a factor, bro. Historically, uh brown and black communities were put in these ghettos, you know, with with certain limitations. And even when you have people that want to make it, that have the will and somehow get the skill to do things, doors are closed on them, bro. Because of their color of their skin or their race or their culture. And I believe my humble opinion that that's that's as American as American pie.
SPEAKER_03:Embedded in the roots. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, that's my opinion because I saw that. I saw that.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, now that you mentioned it, I don't think I've ever seen a Mexican United States president. We've seen a black one, Obama, but now that you mentioned it, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But look how long that took, you know what I mean? Yeah. That that that that just didn't happen. I mean, there were they they've just like the the black community, we've had good people in our community representing us trying to change things, have fought for our civil rights. And, you know, you see that today as well, you know.
SPEAKER_03:I had no idea, bro, that this conversation was gonna go this way, but I like it, man. And it's gonna dive right into your story. Do you think that the brown community has it as bad or worse than the black community when it comes to what we're talking about?
SPEAKER_01:I think that they do. It's just as part of my culture, being of Mexican and shut up and put up. We don't, we don't, we don't complain, bro.
SPEAKER_04:Facts.
SPEAKER_01:Those are things that are and I'm not saying that, you know, I'm not trying to I hear what you're saying, bro. It's just in our culture, bro. You know, we were taught to, you know, you gotta work, bro. Be sub not submissive, but in the sense, like, you know what, we don't got time for that. We gotta work, we gotta get shit done. And if you're trying to do things legitimate legitimately, you know, you're gonna do things that way. And if you don't, then you're a gang member. You become a you know uh a criminal.
SPEAKER_03:Again, bro, I can't believe we're having this conversation because I don't think anybody had ever spoken on it like this. We're not putting down any other race. No, no, absolutely. We're solely saying, like, hey, these are all realities of certain cultures, and the way the Mexican culture, I'm Hispanic as well, is like, hey, you shut the fuck up and go to work.
SPEAKER_01:Well, think about it, you know, who can really say, right, that, you know, we we can say other than the Native Americans, bro, Mexican culture was supposed to be protected. We have a treaty, we have multiple treaties with the government. You know, Guadalupe Hidalgo, you know, the Garden Purchase, the taking of Texas, those things are real.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And they didn't happen a million years ago, they happened a few hundred years ago. And I bring those facts ours because, you know, they didn't take half the country from African Americans, they took it from Mexicans, you know, and indigenous people that speak Spanish. True. Because they were forced to. You know, you take on a last name, a Spanish last name, the Christianity, you know, the beliefs, the cultura that was imposed on us, you know, to become Hispanic. You know, I and unfortunately, I had to go to prison to learn that, bro.
SPEAKER_03:I was just about to assume that you gained all this knowledge in the fucking books, bro. Yeah, bro.
SPEAKER_01:And I lived it as well, you know. True. You being in prison doesn't mean that you're just dead. You know, you you live, bro, you experience a lot of things. You know, the prison system in California is huge, bro. It's it's it's it's a couple hundred thousand people. Facts, you know, and that doesn't include the guards, it doesn't include the staff, it doesn't include the lobbying, the union, the all the all the things that go into the prison complex.
SPEAKER_03:The industrial prison complex, man, which is one big like warehousing of men for money, dude.
SPEAKER_01:Uh I was a sardine one, so I know me too, bro.
SPEAKER_03:But I was like the one pulling the sardine fucking thing. So, dude, here you are. And again, I know you're a man that accepts accountability. You said you were up to no good, 13, 14, 15. At what age did you find yourself in this in your commitment offense crime? What age? 16, bro. You were 16, and the human brain does not stop developing to the age of 26. You still had 10 years of growth mentally to go. Were you running around with gang? Uh were you running around with guns?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
unknown:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Were you victimizing people?
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Uh, other gang members. I I mean, not to justify your minimizing. At this point in my life, bro, and and you know, I have to not just take accountability and responsibility for what I've done, but having empathy for what I've done is important. 100%, bro. And nothing justifies you victimizing anybody with violence.
SPEAKER_03:100%, bro. Hey, warriors, if you haven't already signed up for our all new website, HectorBravoshow.com, make sure you sign up at the link below, HectorBravoshow.com, to watch explicit, uncensored, never before seen prison footage. With that, love you, keep pushing forward. He said nothing fucking uh justifies of anybody victimizing anybody. It doesn't matter what walks of life, man. That's why I'm glad we have these conversations, bro. Two different backgrounds, same fucking message. When you got arrested, arrested, okay, you put the fucking handcuffs on you. Was that the last time you had seen freedom? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No. No. Until this last year, yeah. No.
SPEAKER_03:What year was that, dude? 2003. 2003. When they put the handcuffs on you, and you, I believe you said it was Rampart Division? It was Rampart, L E P D Rampart Division. Did you understand that your life was over?
SPEAKER_01:I didn't understand. I didn't think that far ahead. But something inside of me told me, and I looked up to the sky when um it wasn't just normal squat cars black and white. I started realizing that there was more behind that when they put me in back of a detective. Uh me and my co-defendants got picked up by somebody that was higher up than just a squat car police car, you know what I mean? Like it was it was something more. And I got an ugly feeling in my stomach. What kind of feeling? I looked up the sky and I'm like, man, I don't know what's going on right now. But that was the last time I I uh smelled some freedom, you know, got a taste of it.
SPEAKER_03:At the time, did the cops verbally say anything that you recall, like, oh, you're done, or we got you?
SPEAKER_01:Not that they said that I was done, but they were trying to interview me. They were trying to talk to me, they were trying to get some matters.
SPEAKER_03:Trying to get some information, some intel. Yeah, and regular police, good old police work.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, the detectives were were, you know, now I know they were doing their job. They were investigating, and I was a little hard ass, bro. I was like, man, I need a lawyer.
SPEAKER_03:You know, so you knew to get a lawyer. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I was already a criminal, bro. I was a gang member already. I knew I understand, you know. I understood. You know, you get you get groomed, you know, you they prep you, you know, your older homies, you know, the older people that came before you, they they tell you.
SPEAKER_03:You know, did you ever go you were you in the interrogation room? Yeah. They put you in there against your will, regardless of whether you talk or not. How many times were you in a damn interrogation room, bro? Well, how does it work?
SPEAKER_01:That that's this specific uh uh moment that we're talking about, they took us down to the station. Um they had a they had a uh they had a room where they they they took me and my court defendants in there one by one, and all of us were like, man, you got two minutes to get in. So we came in and said, I need a lawyer, and that's it. But we one of them took a little bit. One of them took a little bit.
SPEAKER_03:One of them took a little bit. Yeah, a little too long. Took a little too long, and eventually he would be let go after a certain amount of time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, bro.
SPEAKER_03:Now that also impacted you and your other co-defendants. That's true.
SPEAKER_01:That's true.
SPEAKER_03:But you held through and through and stuck to your guns, and now walk me through that, bro, because I don't know the sequence of events. Like you walk me through, you wanted to bring up the rampart.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, or you wanted to bring up like they're the ones that that ended up ended up uh having the case and then ended up prosecuting me, you know, through them. Uh rampart.
SPEAKER_03:So now I know they have a lot of different heard have heard they've had a lot of scandals all throughout the years. Were they still up to their shenanigans at that point in time? Yeah. Allegedly?
SPEAKER_01:No, they they did they did it, bro. At this point, man, at this point, I don't hold that anger anymore, bro. I don't I don't I don't hold that anger. I don't let it consume me anymore. Correct.
SPEAKER_03:But you were later on to learn about, you know, law. Is this you looking back thinking, man, him motherfuckers did me dirty here, they did me dirty here, they did me dirty here. That's what how it looked, like you're reflecting back.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, my quarter friend that I was telling you about, he was 14, one of them, he was 14 years old. I was 16, he was 14. One of the protections that we have now is that you know, you can't talk to a minor, regardless of what he's done. You can't talk to him without a parent or counsel or something, some type of adult or guardian. And they they forced him to talk by himself, had him in there for like four hours, five hours, no food, no water. They just they pretty much squeezed him to say what they wanted to what they wanted to hear and what they were concluding. So it definitely made uh my journey a little bit more complicated and dramatic, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Was that law in effect or that right in effect back then? No, that you can't talk to a kid uh without a lawyer?
SPEAKER_01:No, of course not, of course not.
SPEAKER_03:It was it? No. So that would eventually change in the in the in the future.
SPEAKER_01:Future the Supreme Court uh changed it like I would say 2011. I think it was JD versus uh Carolina or something like that.
SPEAKER_03:I had no idea. I kind of just figured it had always been a thing. I mean So regardless, regardless whether it was a law or not, there's a thing called ethics, integrity, or and right. And I I was telling you earlier, like, hey dude, I'm all about catching bad guys, but when you have them debt your rights, right? Not not no not no funny business or planning shit or you know, fudging the numbers a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:Is that what kind of like the truth is, bro, that I was up to no good. 100%. And they couldn't prove it. When they caught me with my hand in the cookie jar, it was just with guns, bro. I was a minor. The the original charges are uh minor in possession of firearms and the gang enhancement. So that's how it started when I when I told you that they arrested me. And it's it's simple because it's not a not an issue. But a month later, they were supposed to release me because they didn't have any more evidence. At most a camp program, at most.
SPEAKER_03:Let me ask you something. Getting your hand caught in the cookie jar for guns, what does that sentence look like?
SPEAKER_01:Well, as a minor as a minor. As a minor, uh I had a couple minor uh infractions before that. So I remember my public defender telling me, you'll be out of here from 30 days to a few months. You'll be out of here. Everybody knows that. And then next thing you know, there's detectives and uh a new DA in the case, and they said, Well, we're filing new charges within a couple days of my arrest. We're filing new charges, and these charges were serious, bro. These charges were serious, and right away they're like, hey, this kid's not unfit to be before this court, you know. This is adult stuff. So they they unfit me, they found me unfit. Even though I was a minor, they they said nah send them to adult court. You could house them here. They sent me to Silmar. I was in Central at the time in East Lake, and just going to Silmar, uh being being housed in a different area, you know, a prison within a prison called the compound. Uh that was quite an experience within itself.
SPEAKER_03:What is Silmar?
SPEAKER_01:Silmar's is Barry J. Nordoff, Juvenile Hall.
SPEAKER_03:Juvenile Hall. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Everybody calls it Silmar. At least in my area, we called it Silmar because it's located in Silmar.
SPEAKER_03:Right, right, right. Yeah. So the Juvenile Hall. But you were in Central LA County jail prior to that. They moved you over there.
SPEAKER_01:Well, Central is Jew and a hall. Its official name is like East Lake or something. Yeah, East Lake. Juvenile Hall of Justice or something like that. But everybody calls it Central. At least in my era, that's what they did.
SPEAKER_03:So as this is transpiring, is your brain processing what's happening? Yeah. At that time?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I'm thinking, what are they talking about? I didn't kidnap anybody, I didn't rob nobody. What are you talking about?
SPEAKER_03:You know, so the math wasn't mathing.
SPEAKER_01:If they would have said this guy shot somebody, you know, or something like that, then I would have been like, okay, you know, you know, I understand what they're talking, or some gang-related uh uh crimes, and I was expecting that, right? But when they talked about kidnapping some drug dealers and tying them up and stealing their dope and stealing their money, you're like, yo, I remember doing that, but but the ramper made it happen. They made it happen, bro.
SPEAKER_03:I'm gonna throw up, bro. Because, dude, and again, bro. I mean, I'm not an angel, I'm not a saint, I'm not a fucking CO anymore, bro. You're no longer an inmate of the fucking state of California, but to keep it real is to keep it real, bro. That's gotcha, homie.
SPEAKER_01:Imagine my family when they found out, because they were used to me getting in trouble. But but were you thinking, well, fuck, I didn't I didn't do this, so I'm good. Is that what you were thinking? Yes and no. Like at first, I was like, oh, it's you know, I didn't do this. You know, my parents will they'll come and fix this, you know, or or somehow they'll they'll they'll figure this. There's a mistake, you know. There's there's something that's going on that's not right. And we go to the where the the fitness hearing. The fitness hearing where they found me, eventually they found me not fit for for juvenile court. And that's kind of where the facts came out. They had the detective uh up there in the court and testifying, and I'm like. I did what? And that's when I knew something was bad. I knew it was bad. I looked at my parents. My parents, Juno Court, like they they your parents aren't behind you. Like this, they're seated behind you. You're in front with the judge, the DAs on the same table. And I'm looking around, and my parents were like, and I'm like, uh. And the date that they mentioned, I was with my family. So right away, they went home and I called them and they're like, hey man, you know what? I know. I was like, I know I'm a mess up and I know I'm doing wrong, you know, I've done wrong, but this is this is this is wrong. Like, they got the wrong guy. Yeah. So they got me a lawyer. They they they scrapped up some money and got a private attorney because we knew it was serious at that point. We knew it was serious.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, it's beyond serious, bro.
SPEAKER_01:Life, life, bro. They they were like, this is a life case. You know, you get found guilty. This is this is it. It's over. And I'm like, what was carrying the life?
SPEAKER_03:Was it the kidnapping? That was the kidnapping carried the life?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, bro. You you you you tie somebody up, bro. You move them to the side. It it it's it's it's it's a rap part. Yeah, bro. Yeah, so it was serious. We got uh the public defender, we had, you know, people call them public pretenders. We understand that they're not gonna advocate for the best was best for you. So my family understood it was serious at that point. They understood that these people weren't playing with their son, you know. And and being that my brother's also a lifer, and he he was uh he's been locked up since 1994, bro. So they're like, yeah, we don't wanna lose this one to the messed up system, you know.
SPEAKER_03:That's that's your parents' two sons.
SPEAKER_01:My mu my dad, we don't have the same dad, we have the same mom. Okay, so he's my brother, Paul Paul, you know.
SPEAKER_03:And getting lost to the system.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, bro. I was in elementary school when they took him away from me, bro. Really? Third grade, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Would you ever go visit him at the prisons? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:We would go visit him.
SPEAKER_03:No. So as things are unfolding horribly freaking wrong for you, and you're living a fucking nightmare in the year 2003, bro. They're accusing you of kidnapping people that you telling me you didn't kidnap, and I'm pretty sure you didn't kidnap them. Because if you did, you'd probably say, Yeah, I fucking kidnapped you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I mean I went down for some words, bro. That's not even the issue, you know, at this point.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Walk me through with the next You said there was a jury.
SPEAKER_01:So because the crimes were so serious, I realized my attorney told me, was just take a deal, man. They're doing something. I don't know what they're doing, but they're they're they're trying to prolong this case. And it sure sounds like the firearms that you were arrested with, they look like they're, you know, they look like they're they're they like those guns, you know. That's what he told me. And I knew, bro. I, you know, like you said, you know, about maturity, right? You know, you know what you've done in your life, and you know what you haven't done. And this kidnapping was something that I didn't do. So I was like, man, they did, they're doing this for somebody new. Now, what about the stuff I did do? You know, that's what was going through my mind. That's what was going through my mind. I was, I was, I was thinking, man, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Did they give a fuck about the shit that you did do? Or they were more seemed like they were trying to hemp. Yeah, they were trying to focus on this. In the moment, keep in mind, I'm a kid.
SPEAKER_01:I'm in I'm in Silmar. I'm in Joanna Hall. They come raid the the Silmar Juanna Hall, bro. And not just me for my quarterfinders to grab all our property, they're looking at our our letters. We didn't know how how how deep we were in, man, with with with with they had a task force.
SPEAKER_03:Help me understand though, because I feel that anything that happens in life, bro, there's a reason behind it. What was that reason? Were they getting a raise for, hey, if you bring down this crime organization for this, we got you. Why were they focusing on laser focusing on that?
SPEAKER_01:In my opinion, and where I'm at now, I look back and I see that what they were doing was that they couldn't get me for the gang-related shootings that I had participated in and I was guilty of. They couldn't, they couldn't prove it at that time. So the next thing was, well, they put my picture in a lineup and they showed some guy and they got him to say that I robbed them. And uh later on down the road, I mean, look, bro, at this point, it's funny, bro.
SPEAKER_03:But it is so fucked. You could have a Netflix series, bro. Lanetta, you could probably get paid for this shit, dude.
SPEAKER_01:Man, when I was locked up, I wrote to everybody, anybody that would listen to me, they're like, man, you're you're guilty of this other stuff. We're not gonna help you on that. And I have proof, bro. I have proof I didn't do that. They didn't care, bro.
SPEAKER_03:So they wanted you and they got you. The police report states, bro.
SPEAKER_01:The police report states the victim knew the perpetrators, they were from a whole different gang. Wow, he named them by names, bro. Wow, the cops were still like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:About that, but it took we got these guys right here with these guys.
SPEAKER_03:All right, bro. It took me it's been time a little slow. It took me 25 minutes to unravel this giant mess that was their life, bro.
SPEAKER_00:It was messy, bro. Messy, real messy, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my god, dude. So you're like, so then you had mentioned like the jury, all the plea deals. So the plea deals, and like what did the plea deals look like?
SPEAKER_01:So keep in mind, you know, now you know the attorney's like, oh, well, we gotta bargain, get a deal, plea bargain. I'm like, plea bargain? I didn't even do this. And he's like, Look, bro, listen. And this is a paid attorney, and I'm taking them serious. Um, they're transferring me from juvenile hall to a door court, you know, in a little van, like a dog, you know. They had little vans that have uh cages inside. So I'm I'm up. I'm up and I'm paying attention at this point. You know, this ain't funny anymore, you know. So I'm paying attention and he's telling me, like, look, man, I've been doing this for a long time. They know you didn't do this, they want something else.
unknown:Wow.
SPEAKER_01:But they're they're they're they're they're uh they're buying time.
unknown:Wow, dude.
SPEAKER_01:They're buying time, bro. I overheard them talk about something. If I was you, man, just take this deal. I'm gonna get something light. You know, we'll we'll we'll get the guns. You know, the guns, you're you're you got caught with that's what he said. That's where I get that term, you know, your hands in the cookie jar. You're done on that. They we take this to trial. The jury's gonna hear you're a gang member, you got caught with your hands in the cookie jar with all these guns, stolen vehicle. You got a victim saying that it was you and others that look like you that fit the southern Hispanic uh look, your bald or the goatee.
SPEAKER_03:And I'm listening to this guy, and I'm like and they coerce and they coerced the 14-year-old to that that's something else. Okay, I didn't know yet.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, that was something else. I didn't know that that's what they're that's what they were uh planning. Okay, that's that's what they were up to. They got him to say what they were investigating, you know. They got him to talk about that, and I didn't know that. I suspected, but you know, there's no paperwork, there's none of that stuff. So you're just like you got a hunch, or you might suspect that that's happening, but you there's really not much you can do. And keep in mind that this dude was a 14-year-old, did not get tried as though he they released him, and I'm still in Jonah Hall. In the compound, which is like I said, it's kind of like uh a jail within a jail. So you're really inside that Jonah Hall, you're gated in a gated in another prison, you know, in another jail. Yeah, that's where they had the high-risk offenders, you know. So I wasn't going anywhere, you know.
SPEAKER_03:So, what was the plea?
SPEAKER_01:Ultimately, he got it down to three years, bro. Without life, I plead guilty to the guns. No, no, no, they plead plead guilty to the robbery and they'll dismiss the guns.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:I was like, really? He's like, Yeah. He goes, You should do it, you should take it. Because the guns are the problem. You know, so in his mind, that was like or that's what he conveyed to me. And as a kid, I'm like, you know, it makes sense. I'm I'm still a criminal, I'm still a gang member. I'm thinking in my mind, you know, I'm just trying to, I'm trying to get out of this. Correct, you know, and he he pretty much laid it out to me and he said, Look, you should take the deal, do this little baby time, and get out of here. And I did what he did, I did what he said, I took his advice. But what happened, dude?
SPEAKER_03:Bro, this this math homie sucks, bro.
SPEAKER_01:Because what the hell did they do? So I take the deal, and me and my my other two, my there's another guy that gets picked up for the robbery, had nothing to do with my arrest, bro. Nothing to do with the arrest. He's part of this now, too. Somehow, some way. Because they put his I'm telling you, they used to just put pictures in a six-pack and tell people, hey, look, this guy looks like the guy, circle him and mammonos, let's go. You'll do. And I see my homo, like, what are you doing here? Like, hey, what they say I have a case. I'm like, what case with you? I'm like, with me, and you don't got no case with me. He's like, Yeah. I'm like, what? Like, bro. So we all take a deal. We take the deal to get just get out of here. You know, let's try to get out of this. Um, we take a three-year deal. All of us, the three of us are minors at this point, still. We get sent to hatchy, bro. What do you mean? Yeah, we we get sentenced to three years.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:We bought a 1A, then sent us to a level four.
SPEAKER_03:You got charged as an adult. You got charged as an adult for the robbery, not for the guns. You got sentenced to hatchy three years.
SPEAKER_01:They charge you for the guns, bro. But in the in the plea deal, they they could do whatever they want. It's about they and they did. They're like, look, just plead guilty to the robbery, we'll dismiss the other charges, including the kidnapping, including all these things that carried uh a big, big sentences. Okay. And I took it, like I said, uh, when you get sentenced, you get you go to prison. It's to adult prison. So I go to Hapee. Um, you know, that's a journey within itself. You know, but you were young. Yeah. How old? 17 when I hit the yard, bro. Okay. I hit the yard, level four. It was weird at the time because you know, they they had us on the line and then they snatched us up and they bait a wild peep uh pod because we were running around doing stuff that it was kids, bro. Right. 14, 15, 16, 17 year olds, bro, with grown men.
SPEAKER_03:You know, killers, level four killers, bro. GP 180.
SPEAKER_01:Well, uh, maybe like a year and a half later. We were on lockdown most of the time anyway, you know what I mean? And uh about a year and a half later, I'm thinking, man, I'm about to go home, you know, in about six months, a year. Uh-uh. Uh-uh. They came and got me. Who? Rampart. Detectives? Came and picked me up, bro. From the pen. From the pen and tattoo.
SPEAKER_03:Say, take your ass to R. We're here. Put you in a vehicle, and then took you where?
SPEAKER_01:They just read my rights and said, hey man, uh, turn around. You know, pat me down. They they they escorted me all the way to our, you know, they just they did the whole process where they're like, hey, we're taking this guy. We got a court order. We have all these charges, you know, and I'm talking serious charges, bro. Like, that's what that's what got me back to LA County jail. Well, I never had been to LA County jail up until that moment, actually.
SPEAKER_03:So when your lawyer said, hey, I think they're trying to buy time for something, was that what he was referring to? That's what he was referring to.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Now, how the fuck does that work when it comes to the law? Would that be considered double jeopardy, or not really, because they never charged you the first time?
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's this is where, you know, as a as at that time, I was still a criminal. So in my mind, I'm trying to get away with this. You know, I was trying to, that's the reason why I agreed to the plea deal, because I thought that's there were some type of protections there for the guns, for the for the for the for the firearms. But they don't care, bro. Once once they want you, they're gonna band it, break it, however they want. And it's it's the truth. Yeah, bro. They they came picked me up, and um when I call my family, they're like, Yeah, yeah, they picked up a few other people too out here.
SPEAKER_03:Real quick. Yeah, real quick. Just so you know, it's not just against gang members, because like CDCR will go after myself and our employees, and they'll ban the rules, break the rules, they'll do whatever they basically I've seen it when I'm gonna do it. Basically, let's just say this the government will do whatever the fuck they want to get you, and they're gonna get you.
SPEAKER_01:And with time, I understood, bro. That was the beginning of my journey with the system, right? Correct. And as as as with time, with time passed by, I understood that those things are real, bro. It's real, dude. And and I got to see it firsthand. I witnessed a lot of it. I went through a lot of that, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Bro, so you had new co-defendants?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and you guys were in Kelly LA County jail? Yeah, there's five of us, bro. Five. Five of us. They all got charged with multiple, multiple crimes. And there was a there was uh uh three of us were charged for one, there was another four of us tied to one, and then there was two of us tied to one. You know, it's just okay, okay.
SPEAKER_03:I hear what you're saying.
SPEAKER_01:And I was tied with all of them.
SPEAKER_03:So you were tied to all of them, and all the charges, you were tied to all the charges. So now, bro, are you thinking this is like a fucking bro? I'm getting like stressed out just hearing this fucking story. Like now, are you tired? Are you angry? Are you confused? Are you feel like you want to throw in the towel? At this point, or were you at that point, at that point? At that point, when you're like, fuck, what's next?
SPEAKER_01:Or how were you feeling? I was in suspense because, like I said, at that time, I was still a criminal, man, and a gang member. So in my mind, I'm wired to try to get out of this. I'm gonna try to get out of this somehow, you know, and survival. Yeah, you know, you start talking to your at that time. I started re-established, I had a uh a good uh uh communication with my family at that point, you know. And uh they were supportive of me. So I was talking to them and I tell them, hey man, this is this is serious. Like I started to confide in them and tell them, hey, you know, uh, they I'm gonna need your help on this one, you know. Because I know I knew what I got myself involved in. So they helped me out. They got the they got the little attorney that I was talking about. But you know, it was just it was just a whole nother uh uh beast when I got to the county jail. I had never been to the county jail before that. I was a kid. So by the time I went down there, I was 18, 19.
SPEAKER_03:What differences what differences did you notice between juvenile hall and county jail, LA of all places? Well like program or security-wise or privileges? What do you think?
SPEAKER_01:There's so many. There's so many. There's a big difference, you know. First of all, LA County Jail isn't you're you know, they had a juvenile module, but it's you don't program with the with the men, you know, we don't program with the adults. By the time I went back down for these new charges, you know, they put me in Supermax, I was in the county as well. I was everywhere, and it was vicious, bro. I mean, LA County, all the things you hear about LA County, uh, it's real. LA County Jail, you got like 10,000 people in that system, bro.
SPEAKER_03:That's a lot, dude.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so just imagine, you know, the worst of the worst fighting their cases or violations. You see every all walks of life there. But the uh one thing I realized fast was uh was a was a prison politics, you know, that it was there. It was there? LA County Jail, man. You know, you keep in mind I'm I'm I'm I'm Mexican, right? I'm running with the sound. I'm there. There's a structure there, bro. There's there's it was there before me, it was there when I was there. It's gonna be there tomorrow.
SPEAKER_00:So it was beyond me, bro. I just got with it. I was like, I'm not gonna You just got in line, dude?
SPEAKER_01:I I just got in line with the with the with the good uh there was a there were some good people there, man. Good homies that I knew and others that I met, you know, and coming down from a 180, they welcomed me, bro. I was welcomed, I was received well, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, because you went that way to atropy, then you came back this way, dude.
SPEAKER_01:And I had been on that on that yard in that prison for about a year and some change, right?
SPEAKER_03:Bro, most people go from jail to prison. You went from prison back to jail, dude.
SPEAKER_01:And to face charges that ultimately would sentence me to uh put the nail in your fucking coffin, but not really, but yeah, really. Yeah, yeah. So that's that's that's where it was at.
SPEAKER_03:So in this trial now, and this is fucking nuts, bro. You were convicted? No. Well, you were charged, convicted, and sentenced to what in this in the shootings, the gang related shootings? In this in this portion of your life story.
SPEAKER_01:Three life, three consecutive life terms plus sixty years, bro. 60 some 60 years basketball numbers, yeah. Multiple life terms.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, I watch TV, bro. There's a there's a judge, there's a the defendant, then there's a lawyer, and when the and when the lawyer, when the judge says, hey, I'm senting you in this charge, I'm finding you guilty. Well, what the fuck was going through your head, bro?
SPEAKER_01:Well, the jury found me guilty, so what he did was just he just He recited He He says, Hey, you got found guilty of this, so I'm gonna sentence you to this. And all the most of the the charges, most of the sentences that I received were mandatory. You know, the the life terms were mandatory for the crimes, the enhancements were mandatory, like the gang enhancement was mandatory. That you know, all these decisions.
SPEAKER_03:But what emotions went through you?
unknown:Man, bro.
SPEAKER_01:You could only imagine I was destroyed. I was I was like 20 or 21 or something like that when I went to trial.
SPEAKER_03:Did it feel like 20? Like, did your I want to know, bro, because I would I would fucking like almost pass out, bro. If I heard that my life was gonna be done, I I would be cr I would be done, bro. Did your like legs get wobbly? Like, did you want to throw up?
SPEAKER_01:I think I had come to terms with it, bro. When they originally charged me when I was in Thachbi, I knew, bro. I knew. Like, I knew. Like, I knew once they slapped like where I come from. Look, in the brown community, let's be honest, bro. I hear you. I'm just I hear you. I'm my story's not unique, bro. It's really not it's not. I mean, you see it.
SPEAKER_03:You in my community, brown community, bro, in prison, you run into people with the same story, you know, that they they have they're buried under a mount of mountain of time for I guess just as an outsider, it seems so fucking like drastic and extreme, which it is drastic and extreme, but if you're already in a system that like preforates that or whatever the word is, it's like you're kind of expecting it.
SPEAKER_01:So I'll give you an example. When I was in Jewana Hall and I was a Silmar, getting tried as adults, me and my core defenders were the probably the only ones in that time that didn't get LWAP, life without parole. Wow. Or basketball numbers that ended up equating a functional equivalent of LWAP or a lot of other numbers, right? So we were one of the few ones that didn't get life, didn't get it all the time because we took that plea deal, went up there, but then we saw everybody getting washed up. We saw everybody getting life.
SPEAKER_03:Or at that time frame.
SPEAKER_01:So we were like, man, that's why we took the deal. We didn't want to, we were trying to avoid that because whether you were guilty or not, it was happening, and you saw it with your own eyes. You saw it 14, 15, 16, 17 year olds. Being sentenced to die in prison. So these people weren't playing with you, man. They weren't playing with us.
SPEAKER_03:Do you believe that Rampart was satisfied when he got the sentence?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, they were. They were, bro. They were. They were there. They were there? They were there throughout the whole process, bro. Preliminary hearing, uh, jury, you know, in between the proceedings.
SPEAKER_03:But they were like, got him. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Got him. Yeah. Yeah, they did. They did. I was angry, bro. I'm not gonna lie. That's what I want to hear, bro.
SPEAKER_03:That's what I want to hear. Like, hey, let's let's talk about the reality of shit.
SPEAKER_01:It's just I'm not that person anymore, you know.
SPEAKER_03:But in that moment, I totally understand you're not that person anymore, bro.
SPEAKER_01:In that moment, bro, I was angry, bro.
SPEAKER_03:But there's a lot of young, there's a lot of young Mojosos that need to hear this because you don't want to face all day in a California fucking prison system.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, that's subjective because you know, working with uh nonprofits now when I come home, yeah. You know, that's not the approach that I do with that take with the kids, you know, when I when they give us opportunities to talk to them. I don't do that. Well, you don't do what I don't tell them like hey, you don't want to do that. I at that age, they don't want to hear that. What do they want to hear? They wanna, they wanna they're in their dysfunction, bro. Like I was, I didn't want to hear none of that stuff. Right, right, right. So I take a different approach, but I like it. But at the same time, I look at it like if I can tell my story to bring awareness to a lot of the injustices within the system, the legal system. Um, regardless of whether you're guilty or not, bro, I think the the the California for a long time got away with this. You know, they got a lot, they got away with sending kids to prison. And yes, you know, kids do dumb stuff and they they make horrible decisions, but every parent knows that if it's a kid, you know, it's different from when you're an adult, you know what I mean? And with my situation, I I was angry because it justified I was trying to justify what you know what I did by saying, hey, well, you know what, that's unfair, you shouldn't give me all this time. You know, I said because I'm brown, is it's because of this. Every every excuse you could think about, it ran through my head. I I ran it in in my head and I said that's what it is. You know, and um I think that uh California could be very liberal in certain areas of the law, but when it comes to punishment, when it comes to uh sentencing laws, they're they're actually pretty conservative, bro. They're very harsh. You know, and Prop 21 was a perfect example of that. Um that's that's what allowed me to be ultimately thrown away. You know, what was that? Prop 21 came into effect in 2001 after I was arrested. After I was uh came into the system that just made it easy. It just made it easy. Uh the proposition told the the people of California, hey, we have so much crime going on, uh, it doesn't matter if they're kids or not, they just lock them up. That's the answer. And people voted on it, and they approved proposition 21. And that's why you had thousands upon thousands of kids in prison, bro. 14, 15, 16 Senate journals. And and I speak on that, bro. That's why I'm really here, you know. When I think about that, and I say, this is the only way I can bring awareness in that, is tell my story, you know, like whenever I can. Um through my amends and my service, you know, while while I'm out here, I'm grateful. I'm grateful, you know, that I'm out here, and I'm grateful that that God gave me the opportunity to be here. So this is something that that I that I bring light to, you know, that it was easy for that to happen because the laws were in effect that allowed that to be done. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But let's keep it real. I agree with you 100%, but let's keep it real. Like the laws are the laws are the laws, right? Oh, I know. But if everybody But if they would have got you dance to rights, right? There's a difference. There's a law, and then there's doing your job right, and there's playing by the books and playing by the rules. We can't be, you know, as a law enforcement official, right? And I'm not taking sides or bashing law enforcement, but what I'm saying is, hey, dude, you either got a motherfucker dead to rights or you don't. There is no funny business or pencil whipping. I mean, I get that, right? In theory, and I've been guilty of it too, bro. In a riot in prison, hey, you, you, and you, you're guilty.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I don't give a fuck. I've been through that too. I understand you get caught up in that and right.
SPEAKER_03:You, you, and you, I don't know if it was you or not, but today you're it. Oh my god, bro. So I appreciate you saying that that last part, bro, because that's what is effective. Yeah, these youngsters hearing that your story.
SPEAKER_01:It it's it's it's weird too at the same time, because I I one of the experiences that I remember is thinking, you know, they can do this to me, right? But I can't smoke tobacco while I was in prison. At that time, we had tobacco. And if you were over 18, you could smoke it. You could buy it, you could smoke it from the canteen.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, bugler.
SPEAKER_01:So they had a they had a bunch of our pictures up in the canteen, right? Like the comments, they had us a bunch of our the ones from the yeah, that were kids with a little sign that said, Don't sell these guys tobacco. And I would be mad, bro. I'm like, what do you mean you can't sell me tobacco? You gave me all you sent me all the way up here. You tried as me, you tried me as an adult, right? And you can't sell me some tobacco? This is bullshit. You know, I'm in prison with grown men, and you're you're worried about my health.
SPEAKER_03:It's like it's like the military, dude. You're not old enough to buy alcohol, but you're old enough to go to war.
SPEAKER_01:So you die. It's so you cannot see, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So after Tehachipi, did you and you went to did you go to a reception or did you touch down on a well they had a reception center there?
SPEAKER_01:But because I was a minor, they processed me there. Everything was processed there.
SPEAKER_03:And but what back, what state pen did you touch down at?
SPEAKER_01:Tatchapi. CCI. You went back again? No, no, no. When I first went up there, before I have the before I had the the shooting cases, right? I was up there and then I went back to the county jail where I was ultimately sentenced to a couple uh life terms plus six years. When I left there, I went to Kern Valley, bro.
SPEAKER_03:Kern Valley. That's what I was asking. And what year-ish was that? What year? 2008, bro. 2008. Oh, bro.
SPEAKER_01:They had just it wasn't that long. It was new. It was a new brand new level 4180, bro. It was new, bro.
SPEAKER_03:It was 2008 was wild, huh? It was busy. There was a lot going on. A lot, bro. And there was a lot of people. It was overcrowded. Overcrowding.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, there was just so much going on, at least for me. In my case, I had just got uh even even during when I was fighting the case before I got sentenced to life, there was just so much going on in the county jail. Okay, okay. Alone. I mean, you had right, you had the biggest riots that that occurred in the county jail. Race riots, yeah, 2006. I think it was February 4th of 2006. Do people get fucked up during those riots? People died, brother. People died, people died. You know, a lot of people got hurt. I mean, they called the National Guard, and and uh I lived through that. I was in uh I was in Supermax and the 700 floor. It was it was that was quite an experience within itself. Yeah, I mean, the whole thing went off, bro. It wasn't just one dorm, the normal stuff, you know, one dorm module. The whole thing went off the whole county jail. You're talking 10,000 people, like the majority of them were fighting. Yeah, 2006, bro. I swear to you.
SPEAKER_03:I didn't even know that that had happened.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you should Google it.
SPEAKER_03:I am, I think I am. Was that when the one over there by Venture by Valencia over there went off?
SPEAKER_01:That's supermax, yeah. That's that's Wayside.
SPEAKER_03:Wayside. That's when it kicked off all the time.
SPEAKER_01:That's where I was at. Okay. But what is that? Six flags? Yeah, surprise the street. Okay, okay. You know, you had you had you had a lot of pressures other than your case, bro. Like there was a lot of other things that were stressful.
SPEAKER_03:People from not California, from the East Coast, because a lot of people watch the show. Okay, and a lot of people tune in to California, bro. Everybody loves to watch California, what the fuck we're doing over here, right? Why would you say that it's different? Structure?
SPEAKER_01:It's just a culture, bro. Culture. I mean, California, it just you know, it's it's you look at history, bro. Californianos, California's always been its own. It's like Texas, bro. We got it's our own, we got our own little republic over here.
SPEAKER_04:I like that, bro.
SPEAKER_01:And and then within California, within Cali, you got so many different areas, like like LA. I'm from LA, bro. So everywhere I went, not everybody was welcoming, you know, people hate, man. 100%, bro. They hate because we bring it real, bro. We we we we like it raw.
SPEAKER_03:I feel you, dude. Okay, so Kern Valley State Prison 2008.
SPEAKER_01:I was all over the place, bro. But Kern Valley was was my first one coming in as a as a as a I'm sure it didn't take long before they get out, get out. Well, that was the hatchy was like that. But okay, but Kern Valley uh uh coming in, it was just different, bro. It was just different. More violence? Yes, but it wasn't really the the the the the the violence, it's just that um well let me tell you if I can share with you. Sh share I was I was interviewed, they they interviewed when you pull up to a new joint, they interview you through the process when you're getting uh off the bus through RR. And I remember Lieutenant or uh sergeant they interview everybody. And when it was my turn, he told me he asked you how old are you, you know, who you run with, you know, all that stuff, you know, your history and all that. And he told me, he's like he's like, Man, man, he was another youngster. And I was like, What? He's like, yeah, man, he was this prison, nobody's older than 35. What the fuck? This whole prison everybody got life. The majority of people are lifers, and everybody's under 35. And I don't and that stuck with me, bro. It stuck with me because when I went to all these other level fours and 180s, it wasn't as violent as Kern Valley. And I and right away I understood, you know, that the young you put a bunch of youngsters together, bro, it was like a like a huge YA in the tall, a tall one.
SPEAKER_03:It was like a YA on steroids, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and then that place, Kern Valley, uh, at the yard where I was on at the time when I landed, it was a shoe kick out yard. So imagine that. How much people people were really they were serious about what they were doing, and you know, you just have to come to terms with those things, bro.
SPEAKER_03:There was zero hope. There was zero hope back in 2008 regarding life first. Oh no, and I know this for a fact because I was a Centinella, if and we felt bad. Yeah, youngsters with life. We feel we feel bad, bro. It's not a cool thing to be, you're done. I know, bro. What was it like to not have hope?
SPEAKER_01:Well, first of all, I didn't look like this. You see, I I think I shared with you a picture, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you look like you look like the part, bro.
SPEAKER_01:Straight sold out, and that's why I became that, bro.
SPEAKER_03:You know, you just embraced your environment.
SPEAKER_01:It's not that you embrace it, it's that you have no, you just there is no other option. There is no other option, and and and for me, like going protective cousin or something, that didn't make sense to me. I'm like, nah, I'm not doing that. That didn't even cross my mind. My mind was like, this is it for me. You know, this is my brother, everybody. We knew like as from the streets being a gang member, you understand that that's part of it. It's like you going to college, you know. It's like you understand that this is part of it.
SPEAKER_03:I've never asked anybody this question, but I'm kind of interested because I've always wanted to know. Sure. On the streets, as a kid, you have things to look forward to Nintendo, ice cream, riding your bike, um, fucking, whatever. In prison as a youngster, fucking facing all day. What do you have to look forward to?
SPEAKER_01:Uh, just earning your little bones, you know, trying to get people to respect you, to look at you, you know, in a way that, you know, the last thing you want to do, you know. I mean, I understood right away when I got there, even before the entropy, I knew I wasn't the strongest man in the world, bro. I understood that I wasn't the toughest homie there was. I that experience humbled me right away. Like, you got people that could do a thousand push-ups on command and uh a hundred pull-ups, like nothing. Facts, you know, on all races, bro. Not just the blacks, the Mexicans, everybody's healthy.
SPEAKER_03:At that time, too. They were fucking built different at that time, dude.
SPEAKER_01:There was no weights, bro. On the low, you know, so we had uh, you know, there's people that that work, everybody was working out, bro. Everybody was healthy. There wasn't that much drugs on the yards. There wasn't like now, you know how there's a lot of drugs in prison. It wasn't like that on the low four, you know. Um, so that was a different dynamic within itself. So for me, the low four, it just uh you gotta get with it, man. You you have to get with it or you're gonna get left behind. That's just the way I I thought, and the way I was guided as well.
SPEAKER_03:What um what incentives what things did like entertained you, bro? Criminality, or was there like television that you watched? What did you like making crafts? What the fuck passed your time, dude? In that time, because I mean at that time in that time it was simple, bro.
SPEAKER_01:I had to learn, bro. I stuck to one of my homeboys that that that that was up there, you know what I mean? That was up there, and and and I chose to go under his wing because I knew. I knew, like, you know, this is the best route I can take because this is my new life. You know, this is where California sends their kids, you know. So Kern Valley for me was like I remember what I learned in Tahatchapi. I knew I learned in County Joe how to make weapons, I knew how to you learn things to help you survive, you know.
SPEAKER_03:So it's almost entertainment, dude. It's almost like you're you're you're passing the time. I mean occupying yourself.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. I mean, there's things that you know, there's certain things I can't say I don't want, I don't feel comfortable with that. You're not gonna say rap, bro. We're not. But just know that that at that time, right? At that time in that era that that I was there, I know things have changed, but when in the time that we're talking about, I kind of caught the end of the night. Uh I went into the early thousands, right? So there was a lot of solid guys there that were been in since the 80s, 90s, that ran uh ran the prisons pretty hard, like tight shit, tight shit, bro.
SPEAKER_03:So so you weren't amongst was Kern Valley a fairly uh new prison? At that time, yes. At that time, at that time, yes. Was it was all the tables already?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, they had fought for all that, they had established those things already. By the time I got there, we're at war with the north, bro.
SPEAKER_03:The north, yeah, we're at north, and that's a trip now because they're everywhere, they're down south now, and it's a trip that's different time frame, yeah, uh like uh era.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, in my era, I would have never ever thought or imagine that I would see someone from the north in a southern prison, bro. Like that was just unheard of.
SPEAKER_03:That was just unheard of, but it happens, you know, is it things change and and yeah, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but I hear what you're saying because in my era I never thought I'd see a CEO playing foosball with anybody or soccer, but okay. So after how long did you stay at Kern Valley? Did you go somewhere else? Oh, yeah, I went to Hydezra, Pelican Bay.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I've been I've been everywhere, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Um but and you did shoot time?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I did two. I did two.
SPEAKER_03:When you were at Kern Valley, was there long lockdowns? Yes. How long? Yes, like a year, eight months?
SPEAKER_01:Minimum like six months. It's just if it's something small, something, something that you know, someone just got hurt, you know, someone. I mean, it's sad. I hate to talk like this, but it's just like the callousness that you have while you're you you you get numb to that stuff, you know. You you I used to hate thinking like that. I used to hate thinking like that. Like I'm outside waiting for canteen or a packet. We just got out of uh a long lockdown, six months, eight months, a year, two-year lockdown. And you're waiting for your store and yard down, someone's getting uh the plunger on them.
SPEAKER_03:100%.
SPEAKER_01:Getting their heart taken out, bro. 100%. Like you can't.
SPEAKER_03:What about major riots? I know you guys were kicking it off with the Norse, but was there was there a big melee or were they still or were they little skirmishes?
SPEAKER_01:Bro, Kern Valley has. I mean, when I was there, yeah, it was everything going on, bro. Every violence that you could think about against against COs, too, bro.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, against COs at that time? Bro, I can't remember like what instant, like you don't have to go into details, but I can't remember any off the top of my head.
SPEAKER_01:Put it to you this way, bro. That's uh Kern Valley was the only prison, bro, that I got to see. And this is before the changes that were made that Sacramento decided to make later on. There was there was officers outside of the prison, and I know because we're watching on the news, the local news, there was officers outside of the prison, bro, protesting with picket, with, with, with things, hey, we're we're getting assaulted, and they're not protecting us like they should be. Because Kern Valley, bro, no matter what race you are, no matter what car you ran with, nobody was playing there, man. And the officers knew that. They knew that, and they would get assaulted a lot, bro. They get beat up a lot.
SPEAKER_03:If we're on the subject, can you remember what type of COs were they? Like uh youngsters, older dudes, middle-aged. Kern Valley had it all.
SPEAKER_01:They had youngsters at the older guys, they had the they have they had some tough squads too, bro. Don't get me wrong.
SPEAKER_03:That was different squad back then, dude.
SPEAKER_01:Squad alone? By squad, you know what I'm talking about, investigative ISU. Yeah, those guys, we used to call them gooners. Correct. The gooners, yeah. They'll come in at four in the morning. Matter of fact, one of the times they ran up in my cell was at four in the morning, bro. I had a lock and they still, you know, I try to flush some, turn the water off.
SPEAKER_03:You lock your own cell door? That's in that's a trip because most people from the viewers don't understand what that means. But there's a way also where they can jam the door so it looks like the light, like it's shut, but it's not really shut.
SPEAKER_01:It's not. And those are level four things that you learn, you know. Uh something so simple as a handball or or or a package magazine, bro. You tighten up real tight, and you you know, it's just so many things that are so simple and that you learn these things, correct? And you're taught these things in that type of environment. You lock the door and they can't come in no matter what they do, because you, you know, yeah, uh four in the morning, wake up, uh cuff up.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:I'm not trying to get rid of the evidence, right? You know, those those are the type of things that that happen.
SPEAKER_03:At that point in time, they were also validating a lot of Jesus.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. And I was a new CEO during that time. Again, bro, when you're new when When I was new, I didn't understand the big method to the madness, the big picture, what was happening. The way it looked at us to us, like, oh, this guy's doing this, then he's gonna go away over here. It was almost like they wanted to, also. Was that a goal? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh you know, this is where it gets slippery and slow for me, where I could talk about certain things, you know, but like we don't have to, and we're not going to. But real quick, real quick, the the at that time when I went into the system, it was a Mesa, the Mesa uh era, Mesa era. So because you have young, strong, intelligent, aggressive men, bro, you're talking men, even if they're young, they're these people are ready to kill and die for what they believe in, bro. You know, so you saw a lot of power struggles, you know. You saw that, you saw that a lot, like in uh you know, people employing dirty tactics, psychological warfare on people, you know, and then the physical violence. And when you saw that, there was nothing that the that the sit the officers could do about that. You couldn't stop something like that on a on a 180. You can't stop people from wanting to kill each other. So I think that later on we started seeing was they just slammed the ones that are running this down. So that you saw that a lot. Like a lot of my celllies, they tried it with me. There were a lot of people that they tried it with you to hit you with a packet. Well, I never got hit with the packet because I was I was smart, bro. I I I I lust I still am. I don't know. But they tried. If I were to show you the 1030s that they would drop on me, bro, I'm sure you you know how it is. You know, there's people that are scared that they'll say, hey, you know, this guy's doing this, he's running with these guys, he's he's doing this. And and I had I had uh you remind me of a couple uh CEOs that were that would come up to us, man. I I had uh I had a couple of a couple of officers that'll be like, hey man, look, so was your boy down the street? I never did that shit, bro.
SPEAKER_03:I never did that shit only because I knew somebody else would do it. I wouldn't have to do that, you know what I mean? Like, I don't gotta do that shit, bro. You get in a lot of trouble for that. But hey, it wouldn't happen, right? No, 100%.
SPEAKER_01:It broke probably does happen because people will get scared and they'll make stuff up on top of the truth. They'll say stuff. So the officers had to come in and and and lay down, lay stuff down. Oh my god, and that's they couldn't they couldn't do nothing about it, so slam them down, put them in the shoe forever. That was that was you know, so you see with a repetitive pattern for me, bro? Lock everybody away, lock everybody. That's the answer. Lock them up prison within a prison, you know?
unknown:Penny.
SPEAKER_03:Now let me ask you now, bro. You you sitting here in this chair, is that the answer? Clearly it's not, right? For me, it's not, bro. But are you saying, hey, people, do the hard work and find out the truth?
SPEAKER_01:For me, you know, I'm not a for me, me personally, I think I'm more like of a moderate. You know, I'm I'm pretty liberal on certain things and I'm moderate on certain things, and I could be conservative on certain things, but you know, I had to work for mine, bro. I had to really, really take a deep dive into myself because the parole board wasn't gonna just say, oh yeah, well, you know, you did all this time and you're a kid, and you know, it isn't work that way. You know, it doesn't work that way. They they they want they want to be convinced that you're no longer this person, you know. So for you to convince someone like that, that's not easy, bro. Especially if you have a such a such a violent history and such a history of street gangs, and then you go into prison and you continue doing that, and then it just evolves into something else, which I you know how we can't really talk about. 100% and it just becomes like who's gonna want to sign off on someone that's that has three life sentences plus 60 plus three, and then you go to prison and you get involved with organized crimes. 100, bro. They're not gonna, they're not gonna, they don't like that. They don't like stuff like that, bro. So it was hard, bro. It was hard, it was hard, god, you know, dealing with all those things, you know. But that made it happen, you know.
SPEAKER_03:You know, so I I totally understand that you're a grown-ass man now, bro, and that you have changed your ways, right? Yes, I have. I totally see it and I feel it. But like as we go, as we progress through this story, I need you to explain to the viewers what it was like in 08, 09, 010, being a lifer, no hope, and like you said, in shape, man, willing to kill in a violent fucking prison system. Like, what was that like, dude?
SPEAKER_01:Now, all I can tell you is that being amongst all those men that are ready for that, you have to become one of them, bro. There's no other way for me. In that moment, that was my reasoning.
SPEAKER_03:You know, was there people that didn't make the cut? Yes, not everybody's a shark, bro.
SPEAKER_01:No, there was a I've seen, I've seen, I've seen a lot, bro. I've seen a lot of guys that would tap out, get me out of here. I can't do it, you know. Or they get hurt bad and they that's it. They don't, they don't, they don't ever wanna, you know. I'm telling you, man, it humbled me. When it comes now, you realize you're not you're not this is not a politically based question.
SPEAKER_03:This is strictly level of violence.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:When it comes to the level of violence, is there a method behind the madness? Like, hey, I'm gonna hurt this guy so fucking bad, he's gonna learn his lesson.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's the thing, right? And I'm I'm from obviously I'm from a different era, you know, and um prison changed as well. The culture changed in there maybe even like 10 years ago where it started to change and you started to see people move away from that type of violence. But I got to see some pretty some pretty gruesome uh uh matter of fact in Tehachipi the first week once you're off the classification, walk to the rotunda, man. Walked one walk to Chow, man. That was the first experience that I that I had to see, you know. Did he the person die? Uh yeah, bro. Yeah, I've seen I I we used to call it, you know, we used to we used to call it oh, what do you think is gonna happen on there? You know, either a happy face, a plunger.
SPEAKER_03:We used to what do you mean by happy face? Oh a puto mark? Nah, oh okay, on your fucking throat. Yeah, bro. I had never heard that before, but I totally see.
SPEAKER_01:That was the first one, bro. That's the first thing I saw was uh was someone getting their neck uh sliced. And I'm talking the whole thing, bro. The whole thing.
SPEAKER_03:Did the person grab their neck?
SPEAKER_01:Of course, bro, but that's not helping. That's not gonna help.
SPEAKER_03:Did they fall down or run for help or try to run, bro?
SPEAKER_01:But you got two, three guys on you, bro. You know what I'm saying? Like you're talking National Geographic when the where the hyenas are eating the little It's a fact, dude. You know, so you see that, bro, you see it over and over, and that does something to you, bro. And for me, I was a kid, bro. I was a kid, and I'm like, man, like I knew I wasn't the most vicious guy in the world. I knew that, man. I thought it was tough, you know. When you have a gun in your hand, when you when you have your friends to back you up, and even though you have homies there, you know, they test you and you and and and and you just you just you just have to experience that, man. I don't know how else to tell you.
SPEAKER_03:As from your eyes, bro, because you have a brain and you have eyes. Do you start thinking to yourself, I wonder what that fool did, or I know what that fool did, or I better not do what that dude did.
SPEAKER_01:That's exactly what you think. You're for me, at least for me, that was exactly what I was thinking. I'm like, you know what, whatever that guy did, like I'm not gonna do that. So I mean, that that's the truth, bro. Like, like maybe that's not what he deserves, you know, but we think that way. Like, we think, like, okay, well, I'd rather be the perpetrator than the victim, you know, and that's not gonna happen to me. You know, that was my thought, right? Like, like, no.
SPEAKER_03:At that point in time was the language of prison violence, yeah, bro.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and and that's that's why down the line, I know that we're probably gonna go and go into that later. That's why I'm grateful, you know, that that things changed later on.
SPEAKER_03:100%, bro. Because wow, bro. Because that's not it, bro. That's not it.
SPEAKER_01:It's it's it's that time was rough, bro. And I could only imagine the 80s and 90s, bro, because I had Sally's and I had people that that took me under their wing that were were were were that really, really got to see certain things that I missed, you know, and and I didn't take no part in. Like one of the examples, when I got to to the shoe, when I got to ASU, we already had dog cages. You know, we didn't we didn't have concrete yard together where all kinds of things would happen. So being in a cage, they could control you trying, at least for the most part, you know, the violence. So uh so yeah.
SPEAKER_03:During this period of time that we're talking, did you ever hear hey, so and so's going home, but he's a lifer?
SPEAKER_01:No, no, man. That's a joke, bro. That's a that's a no, bro. That's a negative. Absolutely not, bro.
SPEAKER_03:No, hey, so and so just got some action.
SPEAKER_01:Nah, bro. The only thing I remember was uh Pete Wilson's mandate, bro. And even Arnold's as well.
SPEAKER_03:Which was what?
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