Hector Bravo UNHINGED
Official Hector Bravo Podcast
Hector Bravo UNHINGED
He Survived 4 Officer-Involved Shootings — A San Diego Cop Tells the Truth
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We trace Mike’s path from South San Diego to SDPD, through three shootings in 18 months, an escalating private spiral, and the intervention that led to real recovery. Hard truths about adrenaline, alcohol, nightmares, and EMDR meet practical advice on communication, ego, and respect.
• paying it forward after a counselor’s nudge to Hawaii
• hospital security shaping command presence and de‑escalation
• nine years of disqualifications before getting hired
• first OIS: knife suspect, time distortion, aftermath process
• second OIS: trailer park active shooter with an AK
• third OIS: pursuit, split‑second decision under duress
• media, community pressure, and the homicide procedure
• alcohol as a faulty fix for headaches, insomnia, and numbness
• hypervigilance, nightmares, and the cost of no REM sleep
• intervention, inpatient treatment, EMDR, and group therapy
• cumulative trauma across careers and home life
• advice for rookies on reps, critique, and humility
• guidance for OGs on mentoring across generations
• why respect, reputation, and ego control keep you safer
If you like what you saw, make sure you hit the subscribe button. Keep pushing forward, you're gonna be able to do it.
Meet Mike: SDPD Origins
SPEAKER_02Welcome back to our channels, Warriors. We are still growing today another banger, man. We have a San Diego police officer. That's right. What do they call it? America's finest city. SDPD? Uh by the name of Mike. Mike, what up, dude?
SPEAKER_04Hector Bravo on chaos is now in session.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, how's it going, man? Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02Oh, bro, it's an honor. And then one of your family members hit me up. It's like, you gotta have my cousin on the show. Here's a little bit of his background. I'm like, hell yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Hell yeah. Shout out, shout out to my cousin. Shout out to him. There you go.
SPEAKER_02Are you uh native of San Diego? Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Born and raised South San Diego, yeah.
SPEAKER_02You're lucky, bro. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I know. I am. I am. But you're you're you're you're from the desert, man.
SPEAKER_02So that's from Broadway, bro. You're lucky, dude. I envy you.
SPEAKER_00It's a beautiful city, man. It is. It's America's finest right here, man. America's finest right here.
SPEAKER_02So South San Diego, what is that?
SPEAKER_00So, so down by the border. Uh Samicidro? Uh Del Sol, Nestor area. Del Sol. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I worked with a captain from that area, man, but he didn't seem as solid as you, bro.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02He actually showed his true colors towards the end, and I give him a thumbs down.
SPEAKER_00Oh man, okay. Hopefully I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Well, they said Bat Marquez was from Del Sol.
SPEAKER_00Bat Marquez was from Del Sol, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So as before we were getting before we started rolling, you were telling me it took you a few years to get into becoming a police officer? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it took me. So I first started applying for agencies uh back in 2009. And this was when I was living in Hawaii. Um I went out there for college. Um, and that's a whole story in itself. But went out there for college, got my degree in uh criminology, criminal justice, and psychology. So um uh started to apply for agencies, and uh they I just kept getting disqualified. And your degree in what? Uh criminology, criminal justice, and then uh in uh bachelor of of um a bachelor of science in psychology. Hell yeah, dude.
SPEAKER_02You're a fucking success story, man.
SPEAKER_00I I am, I am. I was able to make it out, um make it out of of South San Diego and and the way that I was growing up, uh the shit that I was getting involved in. Uh I was just fucking up. And it was a uh it was a counselor. Once I got taken out of public school, I went to private school. Uh there was a counselor at that at that Catholic school who who basically she saved my life, man. Uh, she uh she pulled me out of class, asked me, hey, what are your plans when you get out of out of uh high school? I was like, I'm gonna get a part-time job, I'm gonna kick it on the block. Like I didn't have any aspirations to do any anything other than just chilling. And um, she told me to take this book home that had all the Catholic universities in the entire nation. Uh, went through it. I hate cold weather, so I circled Hawaii and I was like, let me see what this lady's about. Let me see if she she can uh she could get me over here, and she did. Damn you. Yeah, she uh she helped me fill out the the my parents fill out all the paperwork and uh and but three months after graduating high school, I I was on my way to college in Hawaii.
SPEAKER_02Some of those friends that you were kicking it back in the past, what did their future look like, their trajectories?
SPEAKER_00You know what? Uh uh every anything and everything. Some people grew out of it. You know, they they uh you know they have their own kids and and started working, they grew out of it. Uh some of them got caught up in the in the dope. Um, some of them are dead, some of them are locked up. Uh anything and everywhere. Some people are successful, they went on to join the military or they had their own, you know, got their own careers, uh moved out of state. Uh just a little bit of everything. Yeah.
A Counselor, A Book, And Hawaii
SPEAKER_02Being that close to the border, is there a lot of dope?
SPEAKER_00A lot of dope. Yeah, it's not hard, it's not hard to find. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's right there, those border towns, man, it's just fucking everywhere. Yeah. And was that what you needed? Hawaii to get away from your environment for you to start looking through a different lens?
SPEAKER_00So um, that's a that's a good question. So I remember when she when she gave me that book, and I remember flipping through those pages. I remember being in my room, I'm flipping through the pages. Um, I was even I was drinking a tall can or a beer or something, and uh, and I'm flipping through those pages, and I remember thinking, all the East Coast schools, I'm not going. I hate cold weather. Anywhere where it snows, all that shit, not my cup of tea, man. I flip through all those pages, I'm not doing it. But I remember getting to all the California Catholic universities, and I remember sitting there looking at them up and down the state, and just thinking to myself, if this lady, she's basically basically trying to give me a second shot at life. I need to get the fuck out of California. Um, and I just bypassed all those pages.
SPEAKER_02How old were you at that time?
SPEAKER_00Uh 17.
SPEAKER_02Did you identify at that time that that lady was throwing you a bone and looking out for you? Or were you kind of or you didn't see it that time?
SPEAKER_00I I half and half. I was like, man, this is this may be a once in a chance lifetime opportunity to do something, but at the same time, I was like, nobody's ever done anything this big for me. So true. I wasn't I wasn't uh I wasn't expecting anything out of it. If I okay, if that makes sense. I wasn't expecting to for her to pull those strings or for her to make anything happen.
SPEAKER_02And what kind of stuff were you learning in college, bro? Could like like were you learning police tactics or what were you?
SPEAKER_00No, no, no. It was all it was all book work, uh doing all the book work. I studied psychology first because I wanted to work with at-risk teens. Okay. Um when I first went to college, that was my goal. I wanted to work with with that population of people, fuck-ups, uh, like I had considered myself. I mean, I was a fuck up, right? I was I was fucking up. So that was a population of people that I wanted to work with. And I remember just thinking, damn, this this counselor, this lady, she gave me that second shot at life. If I could just do that for somebody else, pay it forward. Pay it forward. Yeah, that's that that's what it's all about. Exactly. Uh, even to this, this uh today, that's it's all that's what we're doing. It's all about paying it forward. And um, that's what I was looking at. I was like, man, I if I could pay this forward and help other help another kid out, just one, you know, one, you know, make a difference. And so I started studying psychology. While the classes, they kind of mesh, you know, with uh with criminal justice classes, some of them, once you start moving up in the from the from the basic uh the basic psychology classes. And then I was working at the Queen's Medical Center of Honolulu. I worked a part-time, part-time job as a security officer, and that's where I always say I got bit by the law enforcement bug, you know, you know, fighting patients. Oh, oh, yeah. Yeah, oh meth. Meth was huge. So Honolulu PD, Honolulu PD, they would bring in their 5150 patients, their psych patients, right? They're like, oh, he's a danger to himself and others. Now that I'm a cop, right, now I know, hey, that's an easy toss-off, right? Like, A. Oh, 100%. Yeah, here you go. Hit the hospital's problem now, right? So the handcuffs would come off, dude. There was fights in the ER. There was fights in the psych in the little psych in the psych room uh or the psychiatric center in the emergency room. Uh and then not only just the psych stuff and the and the uh the 5150 patients, but it was families, you know, families up on the on the uh on the floors, you know, fighting each other, domestic violence cases sometimes, um uh DV up on the up on the I think it's like the ninth floor where the um where the uh uh where the the delivery uh the baby delivery area is at. So it was I was like, holy shit, I'm getting to you know take people down, throw handcuffs on them. We're fighting dudes. I mean, and those aren't and I'm a I'm not a small I'm not a big guy, right? I'm a small dude, but fighting, having to take down like a Samoan or a fucking Tonga These dudes are fucking solid.
SPEAKER_02I've never seen a small Samoan.
SPEAKER_00Never, they don't exist. That's why they don't they don't exist. They're they're huge, solid, solid people, right? Correct. Um and the guys that I was working with, security in there, they were all they were all Samoan dudes. Most of them were Samoan uh or Hawaiian, and uh, and they I got a uh nickname in there, they call me Chihuahua. Um because I'm there, bro. I never backed down from uh uh an incident in there, right? I never backed down. I remember the first time after my little you know one week of of training, I was assigned to the emergency room, and that's where that's where shit go gets down right there in the emergency room. And the nurse comes out, she's like, hey, this uh this guy in here, I don't know, like room three, he's not changing, he's refusing to change. So I'm like, all right, so I go in there and I'm like, hey, I'm gonna try to verbally talk to him, like, hey man, we need you to change in this clothes, otherwise we're gonna have to change you. And he didn't say shit to me. He was just he was he was a big ass Samoan, dude. He was just looking down at the ground and his head, his hands were in his, you know, he was holding on to his hands, and I'm like, hey man, did you hear me? And nothing. And I turned around and the two Samoan dudes, the security guys, they were like, What are you gonna do? I was like, change him, and they're like, Yeah, you have to change him. I was like, fuck. And I remember thinking, I've I've almost I've I've at that point in my life, I had almost been knocked out one time in a fight, um, got got punched pretty good, and it's like you know, you get that that nauseous feeling, like, yeah, you're about to you're about to go. Oh yeah, yeah, you're about to go. And I was like, uh, this fool's gonna knock my ass out. I'm like, but I can't be a bitch right here. Like, I'm gonna I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna put hands on him. And as soon as I put hands on this dude, he got up and the fight was on, and all these dudes had my back. They didn't they they didn't let me get my ass beat. But um, but after that, they're like, damn, bro, you're a chihuahua.
SPEAKER_02At that point in time, how would you rate your verbal de-escalation skills or communication skills?
SPEAKER_00They didn't non-existent. Non-existent, not non- non-existent for the most part. I feel you. I mean, there's there's one way to do it out in the street, and then there's another tactical way to do it in a professional setting. You know, there's there's a way to de-escalate things out in the street, um, but but in a professional setting, I didn't know what that was. Now, now you know now? Oh yeah, now now that's like my that's your number one tool. That's for any law enforcement. If if you're resorting to use of force more uh the majority of your of your work day or the majority of your work week, you're fucking up. Like you're not doing the job right. Like you, you need to, you need to, it's all about you know that command presence, you know, being able to talk to somebody, being able to de-escalate, right?
SPEAKER_02That's what they elaborate elaborate for these new cops that have hit the line. And I
Hospital Security And The Law Enforcement Bug
SPEAKER_02the question I asked you were was what was your verbal communication skill set at that time? Because I knew it was gonna be basically nothing. Right. And you knowing you, you're a solid dude and you know how to communicate, and I'm sure through experience you've gained that. Right. How does one acquire those? How does one look to develop communication skills?
SPEAKER_00That's a yeah, that's a good question. I think the I think the only way to do it is to get yours put yourself out there. You put yourself out there, get used to talking to people. Um, I remember when I was in phase training, um, my FTOs would be like, oh, let's go talk to that guy. I'm like, for what? Like I mean, and I and I and I I I've heard, you know, I've heard like, hey, let's do some a consensual contact. You could do a consensual contact, but in in in the academy, that you don't there's no consent, like you don't really you don't work on that too much, but that's where it was. It was my FTO's like, hey, let's go, let's go talk to that guy. Oh fuck you, bro. I don't want to talk to you, don't fucking talk to me. All right. Like, hey, yeah, hey, hey, you do you you have PC, you have something to you know stop before, nothing? All right, perfect. And then you walk back to your car like a dumbass, feeling like one, right? And then get back out there and do it, do it again. Get those get those reps and don't be don't be afraid for for the the new officers coming out or or anybody in law enforcement, don't be afraid to get those reps and don't be afraid to put yourself out there and feel uncomfortable. Because that's once you're no longer feeling uncomfortable or you no longer get embarrassed when everybody's you know, all their homies are talking shit because you you didn't you you couldn't get nothing on them, you you just walk away, you're like, all right, it's all good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because it's a profession. It's it is a profession.
SPEAKER_00It is, yeah. So um, no hard feelings, get out there, get those reps in, and when the dude, the big ass Samoan, had his hands like this, bro.
SPEAKER_02At that point in time, were you able to read body language?
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02I I knew what that I knew what that meant. Just from growing up in the school, oh just from yeah, just yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I I mean you or you just you get that you get that that the the chicken skin, right? Or the they say the hair comes up on the back of your neck, you're like sh you just know, like you could feel it in the air, like it's about something's about to go down, it's not gonna go my way.
SPEAKER_02How important is it you develop that skill set to understand when shit is about to go south?
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's like life and death.
SPEAKER_02Facts.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Trust trust your gut, trust, trust what you're seeing, what you're hearing, what you're feeling. If you have an opportunity to back up, create that space, create it. Uh, if you need a call for backup, even if you think, hey, I I could take on this person, you know, whatever it may be, if you if you have that, if you have that sixth sense telling you like something's just not right here, and if you if you could wait, if you have that time, just solve it up.
SPEAKER_02Hopefully it saves cops' lives because if you think about it, those two things, communication and fucking understanding your environment, yeah, will save your fucking lives.
SPEAKER_00Oh, big time. Yeah, big time, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So after did you enjoy doing all that, man? Uh beating up the meth heads and Hallelujah.
SPEAKER_00Well, I never beat anybody up. But we had to take them down and we had a we had to uh uh um you know we had a we had to take them down, yeah. Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_02What up, Warriors? Please to announce a new clothing line that I have just dropped, Unhinged Supply. I'll be rolling stuff out in limited drops, so stay tuned for that. Make sure you go to the website, Hector BravoShow.com, and pick up the latest gear. Love you, keep pushing forward.
SPEAKER_00No, it was fun. I mean, it was it was fun, and I'm thinking to myself, and there was uh don't get me wrong, these the patients, right? They're patients. Okay, these patients were fighting back. They were they weren't just like, oh, go ahead and strap me down on the on the on the gurney with the leather restraints and help get me medicated or or let the nurses you know put the catheter in in their in their in their in them, right? Like they're not they're not just sitting there letting them do that. Like they're they're fighting us, they're kicking us, man. I got exposed to somebody with HIV, hepatitis C, had to take the cocktail. I mean, it was but it was the excitement. Like every day I went to work at Queens, it it was like uh it was like hanging out with the boys. Like we knew we were gonna get into I used to go with the flu, with the cold, and that was the same thing I did when I was a baby cop. Like you know, you feel like shit, but you still went to work. I had a bottle of night uh day quill with me. Um, you know, it that's just that's just the way it is.
SPEAKER_02You never called out sick, you just showed up and it was just you call out sick for like the fun times, like concerts, allegedly. Dude, you're hitting on so many good points. You you just talked about blood blood bloodborne pathogens. How important is it for peace officers to protect themselves when it comes to being exposed to anything? Fentanyl, blood, yeah, right?
SPEAKER_00Should they not just fucking go in there on bare hands and just oh yeah, no, that's yeah, always carry those gloves with. I mean, I'm a I'm a germophobe, so I'll always wipe everything down. This was pre this was pre-COVID, right? Like I was I was using all the all the Fabulosa? Yeah, I was using all that stuff, yeah. I was using it all before COVID hit, man. And and uh, but I always carried gloves with me. Um always wore long sleeve shirts. I remember I had one, I only purchased one pair of short sleeve shirts and or a shirt and uh and a long sleeve when I first went out 10-8 uh out in at in phase training. And I remember one of my FTOs was like, hey, these are some things that you need to consider with short sleeve, like, you know, and and ever since then I always wore the long sleeve, like getting into a tussle with somebody on the floor, you're not gonna be scraping up your elbows. Yeah, you might tear your your uniform, but you know, whatever. Um you're not gonna be, you know, getting blood or shit and piss on you, on your on your arms, maybe on your hands, but you're gonna have gloves on, right? Um just all that all that stuff. Like there was just so and today, like when when the uh when the uh uh graduates from the from the academy, when they graduate, they ask us like, hey, you know, how many
Learning To Talk Before You Fight
SPEAKER_00pairs of uniforms should I wear? What should I get? I always I always tell them, hey, think about wearing a long sleeve. Like, you know, it's gonna protect you from the sun, it'll when it gets cold, it'll protect you from the cold, it's gonna protect you from blood, piss, shit, uh, whatever may get on you, scratches, you know, scuffles, all that stuff.
SPEAKER_02So that is some old school solid advice, man. Because even the old school prison guards, they wore the long sleeve, even 110, 120 outside, and for that exact reason. Really? Okay. Even my dad, uh, all long sleeves and stuff. Yeah. So after you leave Honolulu, do you come back to the States, San Diego?
SPEAKER_00I do, yeah. So I'm so going back to applying to all those agencies, so I started to apply in 2009. Um, you know, I put everything down on paper on that PHQ, all the dope you did, all the criminal, you know, the criminal misconduct or or all the things that you ever you've ever done that you've never been caught for. Everything, man. I put it all down on paper. And um, and they they DQ'd me. Honolulu PD, Maui PD, uh uh San Diego PD, San Diego Sheriffs. Uh I applied for all kinds of agencies, Border Patrol, uh, Long Beach, you name it, all up and down California. I applied, and I just kept getting disqualified, disqualified, disqualified. And thank God I put all that down on paper because and none of that shit can come back and bite me in the ass. Nobody can come back and say, oh, you know, this fool used to do this. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I did. I did. And it's all it's all right there on paper, right? You know, uh about 50 different agencies have that PHQ PHS packet, you know. Oh, they share it. Yeah, they sh oh they share it, yeah. They share it. Uh it's all the same. And I I it took me almost nine years. So 2009, I got hired with San Diego PD in 2016.
SPEAKER_02Were you getting discouraged as you were getting these disqualification letters?
SPEAKER_00Um, in the beginning, yes, but as the years, so they they'll tell you, like, hey, you can't reapply for three years, you can't reapply for two years, you can't reapply for one year. And I was like, maybe there's something, maybe there's something here. But I knew that this was what I wanted to do. The just the excitement of the job, being able to say, hey, uh I'm a cop and I'm gonna I'm gonna help people out, you know, helping people that can't help themselves, right? Kids, elderly people. Um, and I think it growing up in the hood, growing up in that environment, those are the those are the people you protect. The young, the young, the young people, the the the older people, right? That's it, there's a level of respect. Um, and I kind of brought that, I didn't bring that with me, but that was it that was like instilled in me, right?
SPEAKER_02I think that's almost embedded in us as men.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think so. Beginning of time. Yeah. Yeah, it's just like that. Can I can I be a cop, you know, the first in my in my family to turn it all around? Like I I I've already turned it around this far. I went to Hawaii, I got a degree, uh now I'm I'm I'm working. Then I started working as a youth correctional officer um after Queens. I hated that. I I l I learned quickly that I hate kids. I hate that population of of kids, man. No, I I've heard the female jails are not a not a not a easy place to be at, man, but but the kids, it it is uh that takes a special human being to work with that population of people more so today than you know back in the early 2000s or you know it it's it's yeah what did the hiring phase look like for you for SDPD you got a letter of approval yeah so so I remember the detective calling me and once I started going through all the steps um my but the PHQ and then you know the physical agility test and all that stuff uh she calls me and she said Mr. Martinez you have a very interesting and extensive background and I was like man I've heard this before I'm gonna get disqualified but before she could go any further I said ma'am I understand that San Diego PD doesn't hire angels and I am far from an angel but you guys say that you hire honest people and I've for the for the past eight nine years I've been I mean all my stuff is on paper my packet like I printed out like 20 extra pages to tell them like all the misconduct that I did I all the stuff that I that's not on there that I that I listed and uh and she gave me a shot she was like all right she's like I'm gonna can I'm gonna push you through and you know come in and talk to me this is the stuff that I need I need all these documents by this time and I I was on it did it feel surreal it I didn't think I was gonna get it until towards the end where I'm like holy shit like now I'm taking the polygraph test and then now I'm you know now I'm going for my my medical and you know my piss test and all that stuff I'm like this this might be this might be it right here this might be it so you went to the academy right here yeah Miramar Miramar yeah how was that because you had mentioned you were not in the military how was like were they yelling at you yeah so that I mean it's a it's the police academy they're they're they're yelling at us they're they're putting a yeah the first the first week two weeks three weeks um but I expected more okay and uh I'm not saying it was a it was a walk in the park there was some difficult things about it the studying was was hard I had I had just gotten married the year prior we had had our first son that year and then I got um and then I got hired on with San Diego PD and went to the academy so juggling life at home was way more harder than the than the academy.
SPEAKER_02But also America was going off the hook around 2016 2017 we had the whole BLM riots and Louisiana also the Dallas were you already a cop when all that happened no I I want I want to say that was around that that was around that time so um the what was there like a like there was like some some guy in the in a garage that shot a bunch of Dallas cops or something like that or Louisiana the public turned on fucking cops around that time frame dude
Gear, Safety, And Bloodborne Reality
SPEAKER_02right right like the whole United States like fuck these cops yeah like that was it that was a time frame yeah and then we had just lost uh one of our officers at San Diego PD which one was uh JD de Guzman okay so he was in the car with the partner yeah and that was at the time where you were working where were you in the academy?
SPEAKER_00I was I was in the hiring process when that went down okay yes so it was so there was a lot of like the there was a lot of um things out in society that were going down there was things at home for me that were going I mean I had a brand new baby at a baby baby at home and right we had just gotten married and and so there was there was and you're right there was a lot of like things out in the public and in the community that was yeah politicians were giving their input right certain police chiefs were giving their input it was going buck wild yeah yeah so what area of San Diego did you initially get assigned to uh so I did all my time in in uh South Bay so South San Diego where I was born and raised yeah so I went I went back I went back home and I did that so I was like I never did a phase out there so I did my phases at uh eastern western and back back then there was you know we the phases were a little bit different there was four solid phases and then two uh two two-week um I I forget what they call it but I did a phase at eastern western and then my first phase was mid-city second phase was southeast third phase was uh uh northeastern and then my fourth phase was at northern and I never did a phase at southern but I grew up there like I was I was born and raised there and I wanted to I truly truly did I truly wanted to go back in the community that I was born and raised in and try to make a positive difference um that's what I wanted to do I I I wanted to go back and make a difference and I thought I thought I was gonna change the world. You are changing the world bro from right chair right there trust me best bet on that what other local agencies were bordering or were you good were you seeing like national PD were you seeing like sheriff or like Chile Vista PD yeah so we we uh so down in in south uh in southern division our obviously our neighbor to the south is Tijuana our neighbor to the west side is imperial beach so we have the sheriff's department which at any given time they had like two three four deputies that cover um that cover not only imperial beach but they also cover I believe um Bonita and uh um parts of National City okay so so they're spread thin so we didn't see them much uh chula vista is our our neighbor to the north so the city of Chula Vista um we didn't see them much too much either I mean we were kind of like our own little island we handled our own shit interesting and uh and I still think that to this day I think that Southern division uh were there is no other San Diego PD the closest one is uh uh division is southeast and they kind of handle their own they kind of handle their own stuff uh and when I was there it was like a it felt like a tight group of people like everybody was always kind of helping each other out and if need be in an all-out emergency are you guys able to call assistance? Yes yeah how fast does assistance come yeah pretty quick like are you gonna get the help yeah I mean you you're not not only from San Diego PD folks are gonna start rolling your way but you got like CHP Chula Vista Border Patrol sometimes might might roll out because we're always undercover border patrol too I've seen some I've seen some party shit in East they're like oh we have it we're so bored we're gonna get we're gonna get some shit popping over here. Like who the fuck are you bro didn't even know you guys were around here yeah no it so it's it's uh it's not hard to get you know um to get some to get some backup from like you know mutual aid well that's good to know and we're gonna turn it up a little bit man uh how many officer involved shootings have you been in four now when when somebody says officer involved shootings that means that you personally fire your weapon right four times yes so there's there's there's uh you know uh some and and this is um when I've talked to people people have said like yeah I've been in two officer involved shootings I've been involved in two officer involved shootings you know my partner shot and like you know and some people call some people call it that just because they were witness officers they were they were there when the shots are going down but um typically I want to say typically here in San Diego when people are saying like I've been involved in an officer involved shooting they're the ones that pulled the trigger um yeah it's but I've heard I've heard that I've heard that uh I've heard that definition change throughout the nation you know sometimes people are like oh I've been involved in an officer involved shooting they hate they got shot at but they were never they were never the ones I ask you that's what I was trying to clarify that all makes sense and they're all relevant right I mean fuck yeah officer involved shooting is an officer involved shooting you're in the motherfucking mix four different times bro I'm starting to think you have bad luck oh yeah
Nine Years Of DQs To The Academy
SPEAKER_00it's uh um that it's it's funny because I was thinking that too um as I was going through all my my struggles and everything um I was thinking that I am at the wrong place at the wrong time why me why is all this shit happening to me um I'm looking for trouble like that it's it's happening me to me because I'm looking for trouble uh there was an OG gang detective on our uh on our department uh 30 I I think he retired after like 35 years or something he just recently retired Nesser and he was my peer support officer on two of my shootings and I remember my first uh or my second shooting that he peer supported me on he was taking me back to the uh to the scene to do a walkthrough uh with with the whole you know officer involved shooting team and I remember saying something like damn I'm at the wrong place uh oh no I I said something like um what did I say I said I'm at the wrong place at the wrong time and he said nah man you're you're at the right place at the right time you're just where you need to be and then when he peer supported me on my third one and this is when my life was already spiraling out of control he was taking me back to Southern division from the scene and I said I can't believe this shit is happening to me again and he pulled his car over and he looked at me this is a oh this is an OG this the this you you you say his name everybody on the department news knows who he is even today man this guy's a legend and he pulled over he looked at me he said hey Mike if God didn't think that you can handle all this he wouldn't put you through it so bad luck now I like to look at it as I'm I'm I'm right where I need to be like I've been that God has a purpose for every single one of us I'm a believer and uh and I this is the I'm glad you said that bro here's why when I said you had bad luck I didn't really mean it right no no no yeah yeah yeah it's like a like a that dude's a hundred percent correct you were in the right place at the right time right and that could not have been easy okay and all those freaking times and the reason why you were put through that is so that you can speak on it and help every other cop that's gonna be involved in it.
SPEAKER_02But aside from that dude it's proof that cops for the most part are not out there looking for trouble trying to kick a horn its nest some fucking assholes right but that's not the majority right and nobody and no I would imagine nobody wants that correct yeah nobody would want to take to take a man's life or to shoot their weapon and especially this day and age I always when I when I talk to people um I always say hey don't don't let an officer involved shooting be something that you check off of your list of things to do in your career because a good shoot is not always a good shoot.
SPEAKER_00It could be a good justified shoot you're not gonna fight you're not gonna encounter any civil litigation uh you're not gonna be in trouble completely clean but if it doesn't look pretty which none of them do and it and and there's something that's going on with the community that can that can flip your whole world upside down. So not every shoot is a good shoot. Aside from that the psychological trauma you have to oh yeah carry for the rest of your life oh yeah yep absolutely because there's a lot that goes into it right the the the scene the sounds everything the smell yeah the sights yeah what took place what were the unfolding events on the first one yeah so the the first one I was only eight months out of phase training uh baby baby cop and um my partner and I we get we we go to a domestic violence call down in San Isidro we handle it it's a big nothing we're about to walk away and my uh the dispatcher puts out that there was a Hispanic male armed with a knife running around the uh middle of an intersection and this is on the north side of our division so me and him we were always you know we were always we were getting after it we were the two youngest on our he has about a year on than me we were like the two youngest on our squad but we were we were out there getting it you know we're we were getting after it we never shied away from shit so this call comes out and we're like let's let's go and let's go and assist right let's go let's go help out the dude running around with a knife the guy running around with a knife let's go help out that's not our beat that's somebody else's beat people are already rolling that way by the time we get there it's gonna be done uh maybe we'll go take a little bit of paper we'll help out or something with witness statements or you know we're thinking like that but we get we go up there um border patrol ends up driving through that intersection um bad guy chases the BP agent so now they have them at gunpoint now we're rolling lights and sirens we arrive on scene and when I arrived uh my partner and I were riding in the same car there was four San Diego PD officers including myself and a shit ton of Border Patrol officers man they were running around they were running around everywhere and um there came a point where the the suspect he was probably from me to you from one of the Border Patrol agents he had the knife in his hand and he kept on like you know doing one of these like he was going to rush that BP agent and the you know the BP agent has him at gunpoint he doesn't shoot him and we end up firing four taser deployments three of them impacted the suspect 10 beanbag shotgun rounds damn dude everything was ineffective everything so he's running around we get him in back into the he runs back into the intersection and I remember him he has a knife in his hand he's kind of like bouncing around and he's looking at there's four San Diego PD officers in front of him he's like bouncing around bouncing around his eyes are like looking looking at all of us you know looking everywhere looking everywhere and then he kind of rushes us he takes like two three steps and he runs backwards we don't shoot him and he's kind of bouncing around he has a knife in his hand he's looking around looking around and he locks eyes with me and I remember going completely fucking deaf like I the the way I explain it is literally the world stopped spinning like the wind stopped blowing I mean it was surreal it was it was there was just it was just like everything paused and I remember he locked eyes on me and I remember thinking he's gonna run towards me. He I knew he was gonna do it and he starts running towards me I fire two other officers fire we shoot him and when I was shooting when I'm shooting you know I'm shooting like this the brass I remember watching my brass rolling like I mean literally I could see it flipping all the way out of my peripheral every round every single round
Back To South Bay: Purpose And Community
SPEAKER_00my the smoke from my gun light was like slowly like rising up in the air I felt like I remember watching my rounds going down range like 100% I don't remember seeing the rounds but I I remember like I felt like I remember them like watching them fly out my gun and then like some of them like impacting the suspect. It was just like you observed that yeah yeah you could like you could like I can see it was it was everything was slow motion it's hard to explain I've been in situations like that bro like you're you could see your shit go down range.
SPEAKER_02Well your auditory exclusion kicked in when you didn't hear shit and then everything fucking time slowed down and you were but it would a trip that you were able to see the rounds impact.
SPEAKER_00Yeah like it was you could see the rounds as they're like I at least I felt that way I felt like I can see the rounds going right down range or like leaving my gun and then picking back up again like closer to his body it was like it was a trip.
SPEAKER_02Um I want to point something else though before we move forward and because I really want to save cops lives bro like in 2026 man the world is wild as fuck dude and I watch a lot of YouTube a lot of people hesitate. A lot of people don't know how to read a room don't know how to read violence like you said you were observing that dude you were observing him bounce around you were reading the dude and then he just fucking locked eyes on you and you knew it was go time. Right a lot of people freeze dude yeah a lot of people hesitate right but that is the moment that is like the moment of truth we we could call it like hey dude you're gonna get fucking killed bro if you don't take action right now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah and then think about it if you swore in to be a law enforcement officer and that kind of it is your duty to take action yeah what happened I was just gonna say you know the you know going back to what you're saying this profession it's not for everybody. Like there's people that really really really want to do it but they're just really really really not getting it out there.
SPEAKER_02Um I blame that's dangerous. I blame some of these hiring efforts that are being put out as of late. It could it it could be yeah it it it it could be it could be that and I'm not again you know I'll keep it fucking real bro and then I don't maybe I won't though because you're I don't want to I don't want to bring any heat against you so I'll just keep my own damn opinion to myself. But I think some of these hiring uh directives is what kind of making the shit go haywire.
SPEAKER_00Right. And it's not it's not just it's not just here in California. Correct. It's I mean this is this is this is all over the place you know um but but I think um I think the majority of people out there they're able to handle business. I truly do I truly feel that the majority of people that are placed into in that situation in a life and death situation I mean your your body's naturally going to you your body should naturally want to save itself you would think oh no no I know I know I've I've seen I've seen people freeze up I've seen people do do nothing like it it's a it's a scary thing for me and I'm scared for them too goofy looping repeating their same repeating commands when it's like dude you're about to die bro yeah and we've seen it yeah wow bro that's fucking intense dude because like I'm like picturing you the whole shit going down man. Now that was your first one that was your first one that was my first one psychologically how did that affect you so so when we when we when the suspect dropped to the ground we ended up getting him in him into custody um when he was being worked on by fire and I'm I'm I I'm pay my my adrenaline is through the I mean through the roof it was a uh there there is no other adrenaline rush that I have ever felt natural or unnatural adrenaline rush correct ever that I've ever felt that the clarity the I mean the adrenaline rush that I had and how much clarity that I had like the you know in the moment being able to see like my in my peripheral vision like everything it was just it was a trip but as I'm pacing back and forth this guy this suspect he's on his back his head is tilted in my direction and he's tracking me back and forth and I'm walking people were asking me like hey did you shoot like uh uh you know did uh did you shoot like um did how many rounds did you shoot or approximately how many rounds and I'm answering their questions and I'm looking at this guy and as I'm walking back and forth and I'm like holy shit he was watching me the whole time and until he died. We I remember him dying right in front not just not just me he was it was all of us everybody that was there um as he was being
Four OIS: Luck, Purpose, And Peer Support
SPEAKER_00worked on and I go home my shooting happened around 10 30 at night on a Saturday I get home around one thirty p.m you know you go through the whole homicide process your lawyer comes you got home at one thirty one thirty p.m on Sunday so uh yeah so ten thirty at night on Saturday I get home at 1 30 p.m. on Sunday after the whole investigation. But there's all these steps that um that take place. You go to the station, your lawyer comes, your peer support officer comes, you know, your lawyer comes. She you sit down with her, you give her your statement, she gives you the blessing to give your statement to homicide. You go back to the scene, you do a walkthrough of the scene. Hey, these are my rounds. I think right here, I was, I was, I shot in this direction. That's the suspect I was shooting at. There's no outstanding suspects. Uh you know, it's a simple, it's pretty quick. Public safety statement. Right. Like a public safety statement. But the community was out. And they're like, you fucking killers, fuck you, pigs. The media was out. They had their tripods, and and and you know, this is this is not COVID time. Like I didn't have a mask on. You couldn't throw a mask on, right? You're now you're on the news, right? Or at least you think you are. You think you're on the news, there's media there. Uh, and so um it was it was uh that right there was a lot. You you go trans you get transport back to headquarters, you give your homicide statement, you submit your firearm and all your magazines. So now they give you like a loner gun that that doesn't have a gun light, so it's just rattling every time you walk, like it's not your gun. You know that's not your gun. And then you go into this big white room and they take pictures of you because you're a homicide suspect, and you are also uh for civil litigation. They're gonna, you know, you they tell you, you know, put your back up against the wall, look straight ahead, put your arms out, flip them over, put your arms out to your side, turn to your left, do the exact same thing. So I remember thinking, holy shit, man, the pictures that I used to take of when we're trying to identify people as gang members, when we're trying to violate their probation, their parole, their fourth waiver, whatever it is, right? When we're trying to uh document them as gang members, domestic violence suspects before we take them to jail, the victims, now that's being taken of me. And it was just something there was just something there that I was like, you're you're the bad guy. You knew I knew I wasn't the bad guy, but there was just something about that process that hit home. And I think if people you can't get used to it.
SPEAKER_02Fuck, I would imagine so stressful as fun.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you can't get used to it until it happens. You know, after you know, after the third one, I'm like, all right, I know the process back up against the wall. Okay, you want me to look this way? We forgot, we forgot to turn right. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But you're like almost calloused at that point, bro. Yeah, and so what about your uh adrenaline dump? Did you feel when you when you dumped that?
SPEAKER_00Uh uh the next day, so Sunday. Um, sun, so I make it home. Um, my son walks up to me, and the night prior he had broken his arm. My wife had taken him to the emergency room. He broke his arm. I hadn't seen him yet. So he walks up to me, he wraps, he's two years old. He wraps his left arm around my left leg to hug me. This is 1:30 p.m. I'm getting home. He wraps his left arm around my left leg, and I remember him, he was kind of like babing his right arm because he broke it, so he didn't want nobody anybody to touch it. So he wraps, you know, he kind of leans in and wrap wraps his arm around my left leg, and I remember feeling nothing. I remember looking at his broken arm and and kind of like just kind of like pushing him off like not like like kind of like get the fuck off me. Like, like I I want to go shower, like I need to take a shower. And I go shower, and that's the adrenaline dump. I mean, I started bawling. I mean, just 10-15 minutes straight, like crying, like the deep, like the you know, like the like the non-stop crying. And and that was my that was my adrenaline dump right there. It wasn't until hours later. Uh, once I got home, and there was, you know, once I started going to counseling, it was it was uh my counselor was like, you um you broke down when you were in your safe place. You didn't fucking do it at work. That wasn't your safe place. You broke down in the shower in your own home. You didn't break down in the locker room, you didn't break down anywhere else, you didn't break down in your car. That wasn't your your safe place, is it should be our home where we sleep, we relax, we cry, we laugh, you know, with our family, with our kids. That's I waited, I waited for the that moment. Yeah, so it was.
SPEAKER_02The reason I asked you that is because I experienced an adrenaline dump and it was in the shower too, dude. Really? Exactly, bro. So it was a trip to hear you say that. And it just like you just fucking you feel it, dude. Oh, you're just done. Yeah, you're exhausted. Yep. Damn, bro. I didn't even know that like I didn't realize that the psychologist would say, like, hey, you more than likely you're gonna experience your fucking, you know.
SPEAKER_00And and when we when I peer support officers now, when we we roll out to officer-involved shootings, you'll see you'll see the you'll see the adrenaline dump sometimes immediately. Um, I've known people that said, like, hey, I had a right after the shooting and everything was you know code four. I moved off to the side and barfed in the back by the back of my car by my tire. Like, you know, some people will have it there, some people have it days, days later, you know. Um some people will have it when I'm talking to them, and you you could see it sometimes, so I'll
First Shooting: Knife, Tactics, Time Slowdown
SPEAKER_00be like, hey, let's go for a walk. And then we'll go for a walk around the parking lot. Uh oh, but but the but the lieutenant, the captains look uh, they need to talk, bro. They they know you're here, right? We'll deal with all that shit. Come with me, because you need to let this, you need to let this out. Uh, and this is grown, grown men, grown women, you know, with little bit of years on, or senior people, you know, you just don't know how that's gonna affect you, that adrenaline dump.
SPEAKER_02How important is it to not self-medicate in alcohol?
SPEAKER_00Huge. Uh, that was my mistake. That was your mistake. That was my mistake. On the first one. Yeah, on the first, on the first one. So uh not so much. Um the I started getting headaches the immediately afterwards. So I took a shower, went to sleep, woke up a few hours later, had a horrible headache. The headaches never went away. I woke up with them every single day. I slept with them, every fell asleep with them every single day. Um, the numbness that I had towards my wife, my kids, my my emotions were just like it was almost like you have to force yourself to laugh. Facts. It's it's a it's weird. It's it's like you know that that was funny what that person just said, but it's just not hitting the same anymore, right? It's no, you're right.
SPEAKER_02Like you're right. Life isn't funny, funny anymore, bro.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah. Um, and and I think a lot of it, or some of it may be because not everybody, not everybody knows how close I felt to possibly dying, possibly getting stabbed, how close that suspect that suspect was maybe like seven or ten yards in front of me when I started shooting. But nobody knows that.
SPEAKER_02Well, let's talk about that. You know, how how was that, how were the what if scenarios playing out in your brain where they're fucking going down that looping?
SPEAKER_00You get that looping that does not stop. It's like, you know, he's running towards me, you shoot, you're seeing all this shit fly out of your gun, and then he dies, you you know, you're you're staring at him and he dies. And then it starts right back over again, right? I'm fucking chasing this guy. You know, he's bouncing around with a knife, he runs, everything gets quiet, he locks eyes on me, he runs towards me, I shoot him, and then and it's just like in your brain, it is non- and that was right afterwards, you know, days after it's just like non-stop. Fucking loop, loop, loop, loop.
SPEAKER_02When did you start hitting the bottle?
SPEAKER_00Uh, two weeks afterwards. So I I took it. I I the all the the OGs, my my peer supporter at the time, um, for my first OIS, Jeff, he told me he's like, hey, don't drink any alcohol, give it about two weeks, you know, stay off of social media. And I was like, hey, these are all OGs that have been there and done that. I'm gonna listen to him. And uh, and so I did. So two weeks, even though I felt like shit every single day, I can't imagine trying to take naps, drinking caffeine, Advil, Tylenol, hydrating, my headache was the worst. That was like my chief complaint. So I get invited to the bar uh with uh with some folks from my squad and on on at Southern Division, and I went, even though I felt like dog shit, I still went, and I remember drinking my first beer, and the fucking headache just it disappeared. And from that day forward, that was my that was my go-to. Nothing else worked. Nothing but the alcohol, it was immediate, it was an immediate fix. I was like, I can drink half this bottle right now, and my headache is gonna go away, my nauseousness is gonna go away, I'll sit down and eat, I'll play with my kids. You hey wife, you want to have a conversation? Let's talk. I could I could fucking talk to you and I can understand. I have the energy to play with my kids. You want me to do some what do you need me to do? Cut the grass, take the trash out? Fuck yeah, I'll paint the house. Give me some beer.
SPEAKER_02That's a double-edged sword like a motherfucker, bro.
SPEAKER_00And it worked every single time and never failed me. It never ever failed me. Until or did it? Uh no. I mean, really, it it didn't. It was I was so I self-medicated throughout all of my my shootings except for my last one. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Were you seeking therapy or treatment?
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_02No, I just yeah, it was that can't be good advice, bro. That could be alcohol.
SPEAKER_00No, no, that's not good advice. But for me, for me, no, that's not my advice to anybody. Let's get that, let's get you know, you're gonna get me fired, man. No, no, no. So for me, the alcohol worked every time and never failed me. That was the worst thing that I could do because um I should have gone and gotten taken care of. Like, we had the resources. The department had to hear, bro. Yeah, the department had all the resources. I knew about it. We had focused psychological resources, it's free to my family, free to my my wife or myself. Uh, we had the debrief. The person at the debrief was like, here's my car, right? Call me, let's schedule an appointment.
SPEAKER_02And I'm not judging you, bro. No, yeah, no, no, I see it, and I've been down that path, right? But I'm just like, ultimately, those issues have to get addressed.
SPEAKER_00Big time. Would you agree? Oh, absolutely. But remember, I'm eight months on the job.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00I'm good. Correct. How you feeling, Mike? Fuck, I'm good. Correct. Send me back out to the field, right? Uh, how's the family? How's every there's no there's no problems over here. It's a vicious, it's a beast, bro. Yeah, it's a beast. Yeah, there's no no problems over here. And that the alcohol um started causing problems at home. So, you know, the the arguments that I was having with my wife, uh, the bickering back and forth, it was usually had to do with the alcohol.
SPEAKER_02It usually had to do with But I just asked you right now, did it ever become an issue?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, I felt like it didn't. I felt like it didn't. I felt like she was the issue.
SPEAKER_02Well, this is what I'm getting at, bro. It did become an issue.
SPEAKER_00It did, it did, yeah. It did become an issue, but in the moment, like there was no issue.
SPEAKER_02Like, of course.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, in the moment, my baby.
SPEAKER_02100% when you're fucked up, you don't know what's going on.
SPEAKER_00So for her, for her, I was like, I was like, she's the bad guy because she doesn't understand what I just went through.
SPEAKER_02I'm fucking glad we talked that shit through, bro.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, no, no. That it was a case was an absolute issue, it was an issue with my wife. I shouldn't have been drinking alcohol every single day for to cope, right?
SPEAKER_02Like you're you're like self-medicating, you know what I mean? So let's keep it real. Let's keep it real, man. Did the alcohol become an issue in your relationship?
SPEAKER_00Yes, right off the bat. Fuck right out right off the bat.
SPEAKER_02And instead of you, and I'm not again, this is not judgment, bro. This is just simply for the podcast, is like fuck it. Alcohol is not my fucking problem. You're my fucking that's what I'm trying to get. You're my problem.
SPEAKER_00You are my because you don't understand.
SPEAKER_02Which is exactly how I was when I came back from Iraq. Yeah. Tell my parents, motherfuckers, there's nothing wrong with my drinking and my drug usage. You're the fucking problem.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. You don't understand. Hey, I I just went through all this shit. Why can't I have two, three beers? And and I'm I'm on, I'm on, I'm on the desk for for the next five months. I'm not going out to the field. You know, you don't understand, you don't understand that I just killed somebody, what I just did. You don't understand that there's people protesting for our resignation, our termination. Like, not only you don't understand, you don't give a fuck. And now it becomes an issue.
SPEAKER_02You know, I can see how a lot of cops take their own lives in this type of stress.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Right? Because it's all stress and do uh work induced stress uh experiences. So it's important that we highlight how to navigate these incidents in a healthy manner, bro.
SPEAKER_00Without drinking. Without drinking, yeah, right?
SPEAKER_02And there's nothing saying that hey, you can all alcohol is off limits for everybody. What to say, hey, do not fucking put a band aid on a broken leg.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And what I always tell people is is there's nothing there's there's nothing wrong with alcohol. The problem, I think, from in my opinion, is why are you drinking the alcohol? You had a stressful day today, try not to drink alcohol because you're just using that to cope, you're using it as a coping mechanism. Hey, you're having a steak and you're having a steak and fries, and you want to have a have a beer with your meal? All right, fine. You want to do it to socialize? Well, I only can socialize if I drink. Now that's a problem too, right? But if you just want to have a beer, you're hanging out with your brother watching the football game, and you want to have a beer, it you know, I I don't see an issue with that, but a lot of times we have to ask ourselves, why am I drinking? You know, why do I why do I have to come home and drink every single night just to go to sleep? Right. Because it relaxes you, that might be an issue, right? You're using it as a coping mechanism.
SPEAKER_02So from the eight months shooting, you were in the department eight months, you're now on the desk duty for five months. How much longer until your second shooting?
SPEAKER_00From my my from my first shooting to my second was uh 11 months later. So less than a year.
SPEAKER_02Same area, different area.
SPEAKER_00Say this time it was in San Isidro. So um yeah, yeah, it was 11 months later down in San Isidro
Aftermath: Media, Photos, And The Dump
SPEAKER_00daytime, day shift on a I think it was a Wednesday at 1 p.m. We have a car pulled over. I'm searching the car. Uh dispatch gets on the air. That there was a report, one caller reporting an active shooter down at the San Isidro trailer park near Willow Elementary School. So I remember sticking my head out my out the you know, car and after, you know, I'm searching it. I stick my head out the car, I look at my my partner, and I was like, we're like, what? He's like, one caller reporting an active shooter? We'd be getting way more callers. The school would be on lockdown, the school would notify the department. Like everybody would be calling, right? In the middle of the day with an AK-47, everybody would be calling. This is a bogus call. So down in San Isidro, we get a lot of bogus. I mean, at that time at least, I haven't been out in the field in a while, but at that time, we get bogus calls multiple times a week. How many bogus calls in like you could get multiple a day, you know, multiple, multiple a week. Um, people will say there's somebody's chasing them with a knife, chasing them with the gun, chasing with a machete, and you get there, and the dude is like locked himself in the Jack in the Box bathroom right there by the border, you know, the sign of C little border. And that happened a lot. Like, people will lock themselves into the bathroom right there, and we're like, hey, bro, who's chasing you? And now, and now we got our guns. Because like, is this a like is this a setup? You know what I mean? But but um, so I look at my partner, he's like, I was like, what do you want to do? You want to wait? I was like, he's like, Yeah, dude, let's let's wait. I was like, all right, let's wait for a second call because we were on the north side of our division, we're by IB. Uh so Imperial Beach. So I stick my head back in the car, and within a matter of seconds, dispatch gets back on the air. All units be advised. We have multiple callers now reporting an active shooter at the San Isidro trailer park, Hispanic male armed with an AK-47. He's actively shooting and hiding behind vehicles. So now you know my adrenaline, my heart is pumping. My adrenaline is going, we're like, holy shit, this is the real deal. This is what we train for, the school shooters, these active shooters, right? We start heading that way. We get there on scene, and Abel, our air support unit, was overhead. They spotted the suspect on the up on the south side of the of the trailer park, drinking a soda, not armed with a weapon. So I throw on my hard plates and I snap the left side of my hard plates, and I'm trying to snap the right side, and it the buckles won't snap. It's not long enough. And I'm like, what the fuck? Like, why isn't this fitting? Like, I know I gained some weight, right? Like, I but I haven't gained that much weight. All my gear fits me. I know it does. I forgot to take my BWC off of my uniform.
SPEAKER_02Ooh, that's wild, bro. I was about to penalize you for not having your gear fitted.
SPEAKER_00No, it was it was ready, it was ready to rock and roll.
SPEAKER_02The body worn camera.
SPEAKER_00My body worn camera, my adrenaline is going. I forgot to take it off of my uniform and then put it on the external. But were you figuring, did you figure it out then, or did you just I never I was I was trying to figure out like what's going on with these with these straps, right? So while I was messing around with that, Abel gets back on the air and says, All units, be advised. The suspect just picked up the AK-47, he's walking northbound through the trailer park. So I was like, and I'm trying to finagle with these buckles, I'm like, fuck it. Grab my AR, I charge it, my partner and I, we walk into the trailer park, he goes right with one officer, I go left with a with a another veteran. We split up into two teams of two, and as we're as we make our way into the trailer park, I'm in between like this car and trailer. I immediately spot the suspect, like about a hundred yards away. What did you see? I saw him looking straight at me. He's he's like about 100 yards, he's on the west side of the trailer park. He's looking right at us. Like it was almost when I went turning the corner and I looked, he was already walking down that that road, but he was looking right, it was almost like he was waiting, like he was expecting us to be there. I know he wasn't, but it just happened, he just happened to be walking. So he has the AK-47 down and he's like marching with it, and he starts raising it up, and boom, he fires off around. And that was the loudest fucking round that I have ever heard in my entire life. And people, I always I the way I remember it is that he was raised, he was beginning to raise it up, and he popped off a round almost like it if it would have if he would have shot, it would have like eventually landed into the dirt. But I heard this snap in my ear, like this very you I've never heard it before. People are saying, hey, that round went by you, that crack that you heard, but I don't remember seeing that. That's not what I remember, how I remember seeing it, but there was this fucking crack, like a like like a whip, man, like it just it just snapped. And I hit the deck, I come back up with my AR to take the shot from a hundred yards away, and he runs right back into the trailer park. So now my partner that the guy that I was with, we enter the trailer park, the hunt is on. I turn onto this road. I'm expecting that suspect to be on the road, that road, but like a hundred yards away where we where he ran into. Okay. But he was a lot closer. And I remember him looking right at me. He's marching with his his AK a little bit more exaggerated, swinging it all the way up, swinging it all the way down. But he's closer. He's he's closer, he's about like 80, 80, 70 yards. And I remember raising my AR up and looking through my red dot. And I gave him commands to drop the gun. And he doesn't drop it. And I remember when I raised my AR up, I'm like, holy shit, he is right in front of my face. He was like 10, 15 yards in front of me. I remember watching his, he had like pajama pants on, and I remember every step that he was taking, like those the folds in his pajama pants. And I fired four rounds from my AR. One struck him in the thigh, the other struck him in the chest, the other hit the back of his head, blew the back of his head off. The fourth round I ended up tossing. I missed. I walk up to him, he was clearly dead. He was already discolored. Tongue was purple sticking out of his mouth, uh, like flesh and a little bit of hair uh hanging off the back of his head, small little pool of blood in the back of his head. Well, that round, I later found out, I didn't realize it at the time, but when we came back to do a walkthrough of the of the uh they brought me back to the scene to do a walkthrough. They sh they said uh uh they showed me where my the rounds were at, and I remember looking all the way down the road, he was 60 yards away. And I remember thinking who moved the body
Alcohol As A Fix That Isn’t
SPEAKER_00because when I shot, I thought he was fit, he was right in front of my face when I shot him in the moment. But again, your brain and your body does crazy shit, magnifies things. I mean, talk about magnified, he was magnified. I mean, he was right in front. There was like this confusing moment where like, how the fuck did he get out there?
SPEAKER_02Wait a minute, dude. The undis first of all, these walkthroughs sound like a horrible fucking night.
SPEAKER_00We don't we don't do it. Well, the sheriff's department doesn't do it anymore. We did it because back then, San Diego PD, we did our we did our own investigations.
SPEAKER_02So you get your spant rounds, your brass. Yeah, and there's a marking of where the body was.
SPEAKER_00The body was still there. Well, the body was still there, the body was still there walkthrough on both of them, both of them, the first one and the second one.
SPEAKER_02Oh hell no. And and you're looking at the body and you're looking at your rounds, and you're looking at the body, and you're like, the fuck?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What were you thinking? Who moved the fucking body?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was like, Did you say that? No, I didn't. I was just like, what the like it I didn't I didn't realize it. Like it was just honestly, and I just I was like, how the f how's my brass here, but the body's over there.
SPEAKER_02Were your partners like also experiencing like stories like this, like shit that didn't add up?
SPEAKER_00You know what? I'm not you ask them like that does happen sometimes.
SPEAKER_02Your mind will play fucking tricks on you, bro.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so then when the when I when I later on I found out, I was like, they're like, yeah, it's like it was like a 60 yard shot. I was like, holy shit.
SPEAKER_02What was this what was this dude's issue?
SPEAKER_00Meth. Everybody was meth.
SPEAKER_02Everybody was meth.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I believe uh after all the the toxicology and everything, I think everybody was meth. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02On top of other things, probably, but everybody was meth, man. So then you're what do you think in regards to fuck? This is number two?
SPEAKER_00Um, I knew that it was rare. Okay. I knew I knew I knew that this is not normal right off the bat. Um, I remember getting transported to Southern Division and uh uh by by that by Nestor, who was that the gang unit detective. Um he picked me up, and uh one of the cool things that he did when he hit me up, he's like, Hey, is anybody peer supporting you? I said, Nah, uh, nobody's peer supporting. He's like, I got you. He's like, hey, before he hung up, he's like, Hey, Mike, have you called your wife yet? I said, No, I haven't called her. I'll shoot her a text. And he's like, he said, no, dude, don't text her. He's she's gonna know you're okay with the text, but she needs to hear that you're okay. Give her a call. So this is an OG. I was like, all right, I I'll call her. My wife and I hadn't spoken in three days. We were always starting that the the alcohol was not the alcohol all the time, but just the the the um the headaches, the alcohol, the inability to express anything to her, not letting her into my world, not letting her know that I was, she didn't even know I was having headaches because I didn't tell her. I didn't say shit to her. She knew I was being lazy, she knew I was a fucking asshole at home, she knew I was drinking more, but the laziness was just because I was napping all the time because I had those headaches. So she I didn't say anything, but that was it, that was a small argument. Three days of not talking, we had gone like a week, two weeks. We walk right past each other and not say shit. If it had nothing to do with the kids, I have nothing to say to you. You know, we're arguing. I have nothing to say say to you. The ego, right? I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna apologize first.
SPEAKER_02I commend you for being honest on the show, bro. A lot of people I've experienced it, I know a lot of motherfuckers experienced it, but they won't speak on it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, my story, this whole story, it's everybody's story. Everybody's story, bro. People just don't there's a lot of people that are open about it, they talk about it, but but what I've realized, I used to think I was special. When I first started doing these little presentations at San Diego PD or uh or neighboring agencies and for small conferences and stuff, I used to I used to think that I was unique, and I quickly realized that I am everybody's like me, and I'm like everybody else. With the shit that was going on at home, the alcohol, the nightmares, which I'm gonna get into, um I'm nothing special, man. I am nothing special. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You are special because you've been given the ability to speak on it. That's the difference. So what's up with these nightmares?
SPEAKER_00So once I once I go through the entire homicide process, I go home about a uh immediately that night, that same night, I got home like around 10 o'clock at night, started drinking beers because I drink every single day now for the headaches. Um I go to sleep, I wake up in the middle of the night, and I knew I thought, well, this is normal. Like when people go through critical incidents, sometimes you have a hard time sleeping, it's perfectly fine. Well, my sleep never went back to normal, never. Um started having trouble falling asleep every night, staying asleep every single night. So started drinking a little bit more, and that would keep you asleep.
SPEAKER_02So, what would you do? Wake up a little bit, drink something, and then lay back down?
SPEAKER_00No, no, no. Uh if it was early enough, if it was early enough, if it was like two, three, four in the morning, I'll just I would just muscle through it, I'll stay awake and then I'll go to work. Uh, and there was a there was a handful of times, there was a lot of times where I went to work with 24 hours of no sleep. There was a handful of times, it wasn't often, but a handful of times, it was two days where you lay down, you're tossing and turning all night long, you wake up and you don't go to sleep, so you just get out of bed, you go to work, and you're trying to fucking rack out that that next night, right, and you're and and you're so tired that like you when you start to doze off, you feel like you're falling off a fucking cliff. That happened so many times. Um But then you feel like shit, like you
Second Shooting: Trailer Park Active Shooter
SPEAKER_00feel like stuff's crawling on you, you feel like you feel greasy, you feel like you have like lint on your on your face, like you just walked into a spider web or something all day long. You're just you're you're you're just uncomfortable. So I started getting started drinking more every single night, and that would put me to sleep, even though I felt kind of crappy the next day, it was worth it. Again, the alcohol worked, it took away the headache, it took away the nauseousness, it took away the numbness. At least I felt that way. I felt like I had energy to play with my kids, do shit around the house, and now it's putting me to sleep, and it's putting me to sleep for the entire night. So it's working. Two weeks, about two weeks later, the nightmares kick up out of nowhere. I just start having nightmares. Um, and they were fucked. Uh clearing my house in the middle of the night, grabbing my gun, you know, looking out the blinds in my and my front yard.
SPEAKER_02You were actually cleaning your house in the middle of the night?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I was cleaning my backyard and my front yard.
SPEAKER_02Now that is not abnormal, right? I mean, the the act of doing it is abnormal, but the fact that you were um doing it is not rare.
SPEAKER_00Right. No, it's my like I said, my stress disorder. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, dude. What is that shit called? That's fucking hypervigilance, where you just off yeah, where you're fucking like you want to reassure yourself that everything's gonna be safe.
SPEAKER_00So I would so I started getting scared of the dark. So before the sun would go down, if I'm home, I'd start like locking my doors, like closing my windows, shutting my blinds, right? Because um, because if I have my lights on in my house at night, it's hard to see out and everybody can see in, right?
SPEAKER_02I used to yell at my wife, shut the fucking blinds, the sniper's gonna fucking shoot me. Yeah, bro. But she was like, dude, I don't like the blinds open, bro.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I was doing before it got dark, I'm like shutting everything, but I'm locking everything. But then when I would lay down at night, sometimes I'd be like, fuck, did I did I get that back? Did I get the back? Did I get the back window? Did I close the blinds correctly? And and and you could kiss going to sleep, goodbye. Once that that thought is in your mind, you wake up and you check every fucking window, every door, every blind, and and and you you fold them so that there's not one that's like a little cracked open. I was tripping. And what I what I realized today is I was preventing my brain from going into REM sleep. So once the nightmares kicked up, um I started getting fucked up every night because you don't have nightmares when you're uh when you're when you have alcohol in your system. Your brain doesn't go into REM sleep with that much alcohol. I didn't know that at the time, I know that today, but I was just like, holy shit, it's working. Like if I get fucked up, I don't have any nightmares. Like I sleep the whole night, I don't wake up, and then you know, the headache, everything is gone. I feel like shit the next day, but it's all worth it. But um, that's the way I was I was living. But what I realized was that I was basically pushing myself into psychosis 100% because I never let my brain go into REM sleep for five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten days at a time. Maybe you know, there was a couple days where I took a restor, you know what I mean? And you know, you just your brain is so exhausted that you rack out, but I was paranoid. And when I was paranoid, I knew I was tripping, but there was also somebody in my living room.
SPEAKER_01What do you mean?
SPEAKER_00Like I knew somebody was in there.
SPEAKER_01What do you mean?
SPEAKER_00When I would wake up from my nightmares or when I was becoming paranoid, yeah, I knew I was tripping. I was like, dude, I'm fucking tripping right now. But I heard somebody in my living room. Oh, okay. Yeah. Or or when I opened this bathroom door, I'm gonna have to smoke somebody. Right. I knew it. I knew your brain knows it.
SPEAKER_02What about when you were out in public? Did you go out in public?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So you have your back facing the the wall and I'd be at the grocery store or at stores sometimes thinking to myself, if some shit went down right now, and my kids were young, they were they were they were small. Do I put my my youngest in the in the on the on the second shelf of the cereal thing? Because if he fell off, well, he's he he probably hurt himself, but he'll still be able to survive. But I don't want to put him on the first one because he's probably gonna crawl out. Some sh you know, people are shooting. Where's the fucking exit to this place?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, dude, that shit's real as fuck, bro.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, it was it was uh it was you're constantly stressed the fuck out. Yeah, you are constantly stressed. Bro, there's this third shooting that you get into, do your symptoms get worse? Oh yeah, it's like a it's like a it's like that snowball effect. Like things do not things are not getting better. But at work, man, I was still rocking and rolling.
SPEAKER_02You're probably an all-star at work. I was it's crazy how that works. I don't understand.
SPEAKER_00I'm getting like awards, like me and my partners, we're getting dope and guns and gangsters, and like, hey, we're getting like employee of the month award.
SPEAKER_02It's because you're in your element. You are you're in your element with your gun, your partners, yeah, your authority. You that's your world now.
SPEAKER_00And even though I was tired, there was days where I was like, dude, I'm so exhausted, but there's like the human body is so incredible. That adrenaline rush that it could that that adrenaline that it can allow you to push through for eight more hours of your shift.
SPEAKER_02What you were suffering from, bro, and I don't mean that in a bad way, was like when a soldier goes to war and comes back and they deal with that shit like once. Or you know what I mean? When they come home, but you were living in them. You were living in that monster, bro. So this third shooting, how much from the second shooting?
SPEAKER_00Seven months later. So all my my three my three shootings were all within 18 months.
SPEAKER_02There's no way, dude.
SPEAKER_00It's it's it's definitely abnormal. I mean, there's people on my department, there's people in other agencies too that I know that have been in like five, six, seven, eight, nine shootings. Um, that there's a dude that I met out in in uh oh man, where's he at? Utah. He was involved in like three shootings in a year, right? So these does location vary? Like Chicago, LA?
SPEAKER_02It just flip all the fucking coins.
SPEAKER_00I think so. I I think so. I think it's just uh because you could have you you could have people, there's there's go-getters throughout different agencies that they're like Johnny on the spot, they're always there, but they never get into an OIS, right? Correct. They're just I don't know. It's just that's just it's just right place, right time. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What okay, bang. One was at night, one was at day. What about this third one located?
SPEAKER_00Third one was at night. Uh, third one was at night, also on a Saturday night. So this guy does a home invasion robbery uh in San Isidro, takes an F-150, shoots at somebody the next day, shoots at uh shoots at a uh like at a uh a Motel 6 or a house or something uh the following day. The next day we catch the vehicle rolling, turns into a short pursuit, uh, comes right back into uh Southern Division, it drives into a cul-de-sac. So during the pursuit, my partner and I we were number two in the pursuit. So F-150 goes into the cul-de-sac, the number one vehicle, PD vehicle, follows it into the cul-de-sac. I'm number two in the pursuit, so I decide to bottleneck that cul-de-sac. So now the suspect can't come back out. So now it's a face-off between his F-150, our SUV. My partner and I were getting out of the car to conduct the hot stop, put the sub shoot, sorry, put the suspect at gunpoint, and um and as we are um, as we're getting out of the car, the F-150 rams the front of our SUV, and as it begins to kind of roll back, my partner is getting out of the passenger side door, and this is 11 o'clock at night. The F-150 takes off, hits the passenger side door shut. One second I see my partner getting out of that door. The next second he is gone. So I'm backpedaling to the back of our SUV, and as the F-150 is driving right past me, I see this black object riding on the grill of the F-150.
Nightmares, Hypervigilance, And No REM
SPEAKER_00And I just remember thinking, fuck, that's my partner. And he's probably not gonna survive that. I need to shoot and kill the suspect that's driving. I can't let my partner get dragged down the street riding the grill of that F-150. I'm not doing it. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna let that happen. I unholster and I start shooting rounds. You know, I take three rounds, bang, bang, bang. The F-150 keeps going. And as I'm re-holstering my gun, on the left side of my peripheral on the floor, I remember seeing this black object flopping back and forth on the ground. And I it felt like forever. It felt like, it felt like maybe 10 10 full minutes that I just I did nothing. And I just remember thinking, that's my partner. I need to render aid to him. He needs my help, but I don't want to help him. I don't want to help him. I don't want to look at him. I don't want to deal with him. I have so much shit going on in my life right now. And at this time, my wife and I are already divorcing. So I'm going through the divorce. Um, I'm going through all the PTSD symptoms, the drinking every single day, the nightmares, you know, the the my wife taking my kids away from me, that those fucking fights and arguments at home. I'm going through all this stuff up at this point. I don't know if I have enough in me to deal with that shit right now. Why is this happening to me? Why me? Should I not have positioned our vehicle here? Is this my fault? Should we have not gotten out to conduct the hot stop? Our squads were so tight. My wife knows his wife. I I've met his parents, he's met my parents. What am I gonna say to his wife tonight? And he just came back from baby leave that month or the month prior. What am I gonna say to that kid in five years? Because I know he's not gonna survive. The way I remember just seeing the way that that that black object was flopping on the ground, I was like, man, this is not good. And as I'm thinking all of this in like a split second, I turn around to render aid to my partner who's flopping on the ground, and I realize that it's not my partner, it's the back bumper of our SUV that was still attached to the driver's side, and my whole world comes crashing down that night, man. I I go through the entire homicide process again. Nestor came and picked me up. Where was your partner? Uh he had dove back into the car when the F-150 hit the door shut. I never saw him jump back in. This incident was everything happened quick.
SPEAKER_02Did you strike the subject when you fired your three rounds?
SPEAKER_00So that I'll I'll I'll get I'll get to that right now. So no, so I get transported back to Southern Division. Nobody told me what was going on. Nobody told me, hey, did I hit the suspect? Nobody told me anything, right? And there was a there was a slight little issue with this shooting. So one of the a lieutenant, he came up to me, and it wasn't even our lieutenant, it was like a I think it was like a field lieutenant or somebody. He's like, hey, uh, you know, you've been through this before, you know that you know the process, like uh your peer support officer is gonna come. I'm like, bro, my peer support officer is already here. And he's like, Yeah, you you know, you you've been through this before. I highly encourage you to take the advice the advice of your lawyer when they get here. And I'm thinking to myself, uh, that doesn't sound good. And there was a reason why I was afraid of that. When I shot, there was a female passenger in the vehicle. The suspect was driving, and there was a female passenger. passenger in the vehicle and I knew it. Everybody knew it. We all knew it. But the way that I was the way that I've always been trained is you need to make a fucking decision. In this line of work in law enforcement, 100%. You have to make sometimes split second decisions. Sometimes we have the luxury of time where we could call the fucking suspect out of the house or we could gas the house and we could do all kinds of stuff, cut the electricity and everything. Sometimes you have that luxury. Sometimes you don't sometimes you need to make a split second decision.
SPEAKER_02And I would say oftentimes you don't. Right oftentimes you don't have that luxury of time.
SPEAKER_00So I made a split second decision. I I couldn't sit there and do nothing while my partner got dragged down the street riding the grill of the F-150. I took my chances to try to kill the suspect who was driving. The suspect was later later ended up taking was taken into custody by SWAT about like five hours later. He was barricaded in an apartment complex. The female was found like a little while after the pursuit um because they both ditched a car. She was hiding under down the street hiding underneath the car. She was not hit but I didn't know any I didn't know anything. I didn't know if anybody had been hit. Nobody was telling me anything I text my wife for every law enforcement out there. Make sure you do not text your significant other. Why did they confiscate your shit or what? No they didn't confiscate it but uh it's just never good right like you just you want to have that conversation make sure you call them don't text them uh I text her that night remember we're already going through a divorce but we were still living together you know that night we were on talking terms I never got a text message back. That's fucked up bro did you say anything in particular I just said hey I got into another shooting and I'm going to be late tonight something to that effect and uh nothing heard nothing went through the whole homicide process I go home I go home to an empty pad kids are gone wife's gone a lot of clothes are gone toys are gone I'm like I'm gonna they're gonna be gone for a while right there they're taking a little a pretty a pretty uh long vacation so I start fucking pounding them that night stayed up that whole morning uh people were calling me texting me family my my my family was calling me texting me I didn't respond to anybody uh I get a phone call from my captain hey man if I don't hear from you in a few minutes I'm gonna send the troops to your house because nobody's heard from you and there's some people that are concerned and I'm fucked up by noon I'm like I'm fucked up fucked up like I've been drinking since like two o'clock in the morning when I got off from the homicide process I went home and uh how are you feeling bro I I was like well I'm gonna get fired. This is my third officer involved shooting in 18 months empty house is a hor a horrible feeling well I was like it everything is over like I'm my I'm losing I'm losing everything like my reputation I'm just gonna ride this bitch out or were you having multiple things I was trying to fall asleep because I was tired. I remember wanting to fall asleep and I remember thinking like damn it's all it's over it's over like I'm fucking I'm done like everything everything the wife the kids my reputation my job my money my career all the shit that I've worked so hard for to get up to this point it's we're done you know and I'm pounding them I call the captain back hey I uh I'm good man don't please don't send I'm going through a lot of shit he asked me if I was going to be at the debrief the next morning on Monday so we do critical incident debriefs after officer involved shootings we we debrief the incident we invite all the main players that were involved obviously the shooters the witness officers but also our dispatchers we bring them to it and uh and it's actually really good to hear because most calls for say for P PD most calls most calls start off with a radio some type of radio call so it's always here to hear from dispatchers what what they're hearing what the 911 what calls are coming in you know the details to that um and it's always good for them to hear what we have to say like it gets it like we get to finish you know finish the story for them.
SPEAKER_02Well it's good training it is good for future incidents to learn from prior mistakes or lessons learned.
SPEAKER_00So go
Third Shooting: Pursuit, Split-Second Choice
SPEAKER_00to the debrief uh I haven't fallen asleep since Saturday when I woke up to go to work and we're Monday morning at eight o'clock I haven't stopped drinking uh it's 8 45 now I make it into Southern division kind of like yeah walking in looking at the ground not making making eye contact with anybody and uh the wellness unit our wellness unit was there to greet me in the hallway so Deanna she was a civilian uh dispatcher she had our alcohol substance abuse specialist as well and uh the sergeant and they said hey Mike you're late I said yeah I know I overslept and I'm like looking at the ground I'm not trying to make any eye contact because you've been up for two days and the eyes don't lie right eyes don't lie so I was like yeah I know I I overslept they said hey we we want to have a conversation with you up at the wellness unit office you're not in any kind of trouble uh we just want to have a conversation the wellness unit office was on the seventh floor at headquarters in downtown the same floor that the chief's office is at the same floor that internal affairs is at I was like fuck no I ain't going oh hell that's why I was like oh and now now I know it so like I I get I I get what's happening now so I'm I'm good um I go in do my thing for two hours I come back out and they're still waiting for me and they're like hey you are gonna come up to talk to us and I was like all right so I told them let me go grab something to eat um and dude I I I drive to headquarters I park in the parking lot and I remember sitting there thinking it's over like fuck the gig is up and I'm losing it all and this is gonna suck right now. So I make it up to the seventh floor I sit down on a on a couch and Deanna walks up to me she's and she's smiling right she's like how are you doing Mike I was like I'm doing good how are you she's like I'm I'm doing good she's like how's the how's the wife and kids oh wife and kids are good everybody's everybody's good super supportive she's like how's your sleep oh sleep sleeps good I overslept today that's why I was late to the debrief you know sleep sleeps good and she sat there and she stared at me like literally probably for like 20 seconds she'd say shit nobody said shit in that office and she said hey Mike we talked to a couple of people that love and care about you and your whole life is fucked up and you don't even know it your career is about to be fucked up too and now I'm like oh shit like here we go I'm looking at the door I'm waiting for the chief to walk in gun and badge right like or or I'm waiting for my wife to come in I was like is this a is this a a a a uh a uh uh what is it called intervention intervention yeah I was like is this an intervention what the fuck is going on she's like we want to offer you an opportunity to go get some help we think that you may be having issues with alcohol they may be due to all the critical incidents you've been involved in uh there is a first responder only treatment facility up in LA County in the Lancaster Mountains uh we they deal with first responders dealing with PTSD and substance abuse issues we think you would benefit I'm good I could quit drinking anytime I got it I'm good and I'm not 5150 I'm not PTSD I'm none of that shit I'm good I appreciate your offer thank you she gave me a little pamphlet she's like read this over when you get home I'll follow up with you in a few days she followed up with me I finally went home went to sleep she followed up on me multiple times that day multiple times the next day multiple times the following day and I finally was like you know what fuck I'm gonna get the help because I knew and I always say this I knew that I was fucking broken and I knew that I was fucking ruined and damaged and people always say like you know doctors and psychologists are like oh don't use those words because I you know don't use those words to people you know you're injured and you're hurt like fuck no I'm not injured and hurt I'm beyond that I'm beyond injured and hurt I'm I'm fucking ruined like my relationships are ruined yeah yeah no I get it it's not it's not broken but we understand what you're saying yeah yeah we understand that we're not broken people right we just fucking been through a shitload yeah it's it's this is what I always said bro post-traumatic stress disorder is a normal reaction to abnormal situations right yep bottom line yeah so uh went into treatment back in 20 uh in sorry in November of 2019 a few weeks after my my OIS spent 26 days in inpatient treatment up in Lancaster at this first responder only treatment facility got diagnosed with PTSD and uh that was the life changing experience right there that was uh what some of the stuff were they teaching you in the inpatient were they were they teaching you emotions were they teaching you psychological stuff a little bit of everything so we did like EMDR we had like yoga and acupuncture equine therapy one-on-one sessions with the doctor are I could tell you this em for me well let me back up when you when you get when you go into an inpatient treatment they take your cell phone away they call it like a blackout period they they have different names for it but it's like a blackout period for like seven days I was my blackout period uh was during Thanksgiving so I had no contact with anybody that was probably the most fulfilling time in my entire life that how distracting your cell phone can be I was away from the world uh I remember sitting that was snowing out there and I remember there was one day I after you know our group sessions that I walk outside and it was a tough it was a for me it was a tough set it was a tough session I just like man I need a fucking breather and I I go outside and the sun is out it's cold the ice is melting and I'm sitting there crying and I'm looking down at the floor and I remember seeing the ice melting and it pops the little ice crystals they they they pop and I remember thinking man I've never I've never paid attention to to the to the world like this like being able to hear you know the birds chirping or you could hear the wind because we were up in the mountain so you could hear the wind before it comes like you hear this oh yeah yeah and uh and I was like man it was just it was just a different experience but um one of the biggest the biggest things that I got was EMDR was one and the sessions with the group the group sessions to hear why every single one of those OGs were in there and I was the baby in there there was there was dudes with 10 15 20 47 years it was a warden out of one of the prisons in New York nobody had been involved in an officer involved shooting not one person had been involved in an OIS I had been involved in three I was the baby there but everybody was just as fucked up as I was with their kids didn't talk to them anymore divorce after divorce after divorce financial issues medical issues um um you know PTSD the nightmares the drinking street dope you know what I mean 100% it and and I realized I was like that was the first time I learned about uh the cumulative trauma compound trauma that you don't have to be involved in an officer involved shooting you don't have to be there right there where your partner got shot and is dying in your arms those are traumatic those are traumatic but those are rare officer involved shootings regardless what the public thinks thinks officer involved shootings are rare um but it's the all the stuff that you see day in and day out not just on the job you know doing CPR on a dead ass baby there ain't shit you're gonna do for that dead baby but you're going through the motions families expecting you to do something screams from a mother and when she loses her child I've talked to guys that I work CDC where they're sitting there watching somebody get their fucking head sawed off right and then we go home and we go we go home and our kids want to play with us and our wife wants to have a conversation about what's going to happen and what are we doing on Saturday and you're like um I'm a I'm a I'm an ICAC investigator and I just sat here six hours watching a six year old get penetrated by her uncle on a on a on a video and and you want to like try to be lovey dovey what it's hard to separate work and home life right and then all the shit that you know when we're talking about these group sessions that the things that we discussed was you know not only the work stuff but it's it's you know financial issues at home it's you know our parents getting older and now that you have the responsibility of taking care of your parents your parent passes away you know you one you you know one's left without the other you know our kids are more fucked up than the people that we deal with out in the street right our family members are more fucked up than some of these people out in the street and then what do you bring into the profession with you? You've been to combat yeah right some people never grew up with no mom and dad some people grew up with their their parents didn't give a fuck about them they grew up homeless and poor you know they were molested or raped when they were young all this shit that life throws at you if you don't take care
Empty House, Intervention, And A Choice
SPEAKER_00of yourself the right way everybody has their breaking point and these men that I was in there with were no exception to that rule and neither was I and that was the first time that I learned about that cumulative trauma you know all just everything that we see just life career and life you don't take care of yourself yeah you're you're not gonna come out of this happy and healthy dude there's very fucking few people men that I respect and hold up high bro you just fucking you're one of them dude I literally just met you like an hour two hours ago bro um dude fuck I everything all makes sense now bro while you're here right now why you shared that while you were involved in all those officers involved shooting like all the stars aligned and it all fucking makes sense now dude and I had no idea bro holy fuck man yeah it's been a road it's been a road yeah it's been a what advice and for the love of me bro I'm these youngsters refuse to listen to me what advice do you do you have for young peace officers that are embarking on this journey at the age of 21 oh man 20 21 is 21 is uh it's it's young um man learn learn as much as you possibly can from the from the OGs people who have been there and done that don't be afraid to make mistakes uh don't be so hard headed to not being able to listen to criticism uh when people are trying to correct you um it's a it's a good it's a good thing like that that those stuff's a uh that's a good thing know when it's time to hang it up so if I'm a youngster and I say hey when when I receive criticism I believe that they're um hampering on me I believe that they're talking shit to me yeah what would you say to that I I'd say well one of my FTOs told me if uh if nobody talks to you that means nobody likes your ass. That's a fact bro yeah if they're there if nobody likes you they'd be like go ahead and go fucking do what you want to do and get your ass beat by everybody that you want to go get in a train wreck yeah yeah but if people are taking the time to put you up on game if people are taking the time to say hey you fucked that up like what a what a disaster that was right if they're you know maybe ask them like hey what would you have done like what could I have done better? Where did where did I fuck up? Which part getting out of the car you know or or at what point did I fuck up? You know if somebody's at least giving you or or taking their time out to to correct you or to give you criticism they're not shitting on you.
SPEAKER_02Now other side of the coin what if you're an OG and you're frustrated bro and you're tired and you've been trying to school these youngsters and they're just not listening what advice do you have to these OGs?
SPEAKER_00That's that that's a that's a good one too because um a lot of what what what we're what I hear a lot too is is uh you know these kids are lazy like you know back in my back in my day I used to work all the fucking overtime like I never said no and now these kids are like oh I got shit to do today I got a family I can't work overtime I have a family event right but uh that's good and bad correct that's good and bad because a lot of these youngsters maybe may say well that's your fucking problem that you worked overtime I don't have kids I have a I have a fiance that I'm about to get married to we we uh we share the rent with another with another family I don't need to work overtime just because you worked overtime doesn't mean that I work I'm going to fucking Spain on vacation I like that you bring that up though I like that you bring that up because they're both right there it's just different because generations right because he's not investing his full life around the job right and prioritizing his family yeah but it becomes a problem when you're when the motherfucking when you got to grab the bull by its horns yeah yeah yeah and you're not mentally prepared to ride that bitch but at the same time too for for for newer officers there's something there's something to say with going in there and working overtime because you're you're rubbing elbows with people people are getting to know you not only that but you're putting in that you're putting in that work and you're gaining that experience working 40 hours a week yeah that's your work week but if you could work more overtime to gain that experience early on in your career and and uh and and learn a little bit about everything dope gangsters traffic you know whatever it whatever it may be you know juvenile law you start get gaining more experience that way you know instead of just working your 40 hours but I think I I think it's just different generations and not everybody's cut from the same cloth as OGs and I bet you I bet you the dudes that started back in the 90s the beat the guys that started back in the 80s they were probably like look at these fucking weak ass fools you know what I mean like like what the fu the 90s were wild though oh I know I heard yeah I heard so I've heard stories yeah 90s nineties are wild but but I think it's just different I think it's just different generations but um but there's a lot to say with with the youngsters prioritizing you know their life it's a different generation right but you know what didn't change is generations gangsters with guns willing to pull the trigger on people
SPEAKER_02They didn't get a class in being woke. Right? They didn't get the uh feelings. I mean, yeah, sure, they're rocking Edgar haircuts now, but they're still capable of fucking killing somebody.
SPEAKER_00Right.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00One of the interesting things, I was having a conversation with a with an OG, and he was talking about, he's like, man, back in the 90s, nobody complained. Right. There wasn't gangsters didn't complain. The criminals did they didn't complain. If you know, if you ran from a cop and and and hey, you had a you had to get tough.
SPEAKER_02Don't say anymore, bro. We're tracking. Right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It was it was that's the way it was. But nowadays it's like it's like it's almost cool to cooperate with the police. Like, you know, they'll I want to file a I want to file a complaint against Officer Hector Bravo. You know, here's my phone number, my address, my email address, my first name, my last name, and I'm gonna give my statement right here and I'm gonna sign it.
SPEAKER_02In front of the homies, I'm gonna give my statement in front of the homies. It's okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Tell them fools what he did to you. So I I even me, me growing up, I I, you know, my uncles and my cousins, they were always like, dude, don't ever talk to the cops about then, don't even even thinking about filing a complaint against a cop that roughed you up, and I never even fathomed it. You know what I mean? And and so, but this day and age, just different generation, right? People
Inpatient Treatment: EMDR And Cumulative Trauma
SPEAKER_00file complaints like it's a cool thing to do, which, hey, granted, that's within their right. Like if another within the right, if an officer, yeah, if an officer is is completely out of line, or you know, that's that's your right. But that's what I'm talking about, is this just different generation.
SPEAKER_02I got another juicy question for you, man. Again, not everybody's cut from the same cloth, and some people get uh power, authority hungry, and abuse their power and authority. What would you say to a youngster that thinks that their badge is gonna like prevent them from catching an ass whooping? Or you know what I mean? Because there's a there's a way to be courteous, professional. Like, what is your advice on being that that professional etiquette towards the public? And or even suspects, bro, because me and you know that hey, dude, respect goes a long ass way.
SPEAKER_00I was just gonna say, respect goes a long way. Like you could get more out of uh, and not only that, but people are gonna remember you. You know, people more more so more so in a in a correctional setting, right? You're gonna have to deal with them all day, every day, right? But but out in the street, people people will remember you, and not only that, but your reputation will precede you. People will say, like, hey, you know, uh, you know, Officer Martinez, that motherfucker's a dick. Like, fuck him. If you see him, beat his ass on site, like, hey, it's all good to go. Hey, but Officer Hector Bravo, hey, that guy's gonna treat you with respect. You treat him with respect. They talk. The the the people out in the street talk, not just gangsters, that's just it's just the community, the the the the people that we deal with. People, you know, they know who's who. Um, but I think with with new officers, it's yeah, your your gun and badge, um, your your gun and badge is it's only gonna it's only going to uh help you so much.
SPEAKER_02Um but I'll even say that since I have walked away from my career, that my reputation as just as a man has helped me these years after, bro, from former inmates, former co-workers, like dude, the fact that I wasn't a fucking asshole has looked out for myself. You know what I mean? Look, the people have looked out for me, dude. Yeah. Do you have any last closing words, bro? The floor is yours. This has been a fucking honor, dude, to have.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, no, absolutely. I would just I would just say that uh that the um don't there's no honor in suffering in silence. You know, there's there's no honor in it. The people that suffer, it's gonna be the people that love and care about you, your family, your kids, your wife, husband, and you. At the end of the day, you. And it's it's it's hard to get the help that you need because you got to put in that work. It's like working out. It's like working out. You got you have to put in that work. I can't put in that work for you. I can't go get the help for you. I can't go to counseling for you. You gotta go do that shit yourself, right? You need to figure out, you know, uh what your issues are, and if you can't figure them out, go talk to somebody who can help you figure out what your issues are. But there's no honor in suffering, uh, in suffering in silence and and pay it forward, you know. Um I I always I always say that, you know, what a what a piece of shit I would be as a human being to go through, you know, four officer-involved shootings, inpatient treatment, been in the darkest, you know, place in my life, being able to come out the other end still smiling, being able to help people out. I'm alive. I have my wife and my kids still, you know, my wife, my wife and I, we didn't get divorced. But what a piece of shit.
SPEAKER_02So good to hear it, bro. I didn't know. I thought, you know, I wouldn't even want to ask you on camera, but I'm glad you guys did not get divorced.
SPEAKER_00No, yeah, yeah. So, but what a piece of shit I would be to go through everything I've gone through and not pay it forward.
SPEAKER_02Let me give a shout out to her. Thank you for sticking with this real one, man. That's fucking great, bro. Mine, mine pulled a fucking ejection cord on me.
SPEAKER_00And it and it and it happens. It happens sometimes. Um it happens. Don't worry, man, I'm bitter. I'm fucking resentful.
SPEAKER_02Don't trip. But uh think that it's weak to ask for help. What's your take on that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, it's it's uh it's not, it's it's weak to not deal with your shit and to let everybody else deal with your shit. Um and for you to be and for you to blame everybody else for the why for the reason why life is not going your way. Uh, it's weak to not being able to be the master and check your own ego. Like that's weak. If you could, and that's like that's like my goal. I've been trying to work out it. I'm not I am not perfect by any you know stretch of the imagination. I have a shit ton of faults of my own. I'm not perfect, but one of my new year's resolutions was to try to master my ego. You know, when people talk shit or people look at me a certain way, not not get butthurt when people say something like, Hey, how are those little presentations going? How's that little business going? It's like I, you know, the haters, right?
SPEAKER_02I'm so glad you fucking said that, bro. I will I will smash on those motherfuckers for you, bro.
SPEAKER_00But it's like it's like so glad you said that. But it's like, you know what? Why am I gonna get mad at that hater for? Like, hey, that's my ego. Because I feel like, oh, I'm fucking somebody special. You shouldn't.
SPEAKER_02Dude, you're the my my my goal.
SPEAKER_00My goal is to like master, I want to be the master of my fucking ego. To to to suppress it where but even that's egotistical to be the master of your eyes. It is, but I still want to be the master.
SPEAKER_02I don't yeah, I don't want to I don't want to get butter, but but that that's so I have a lot of youngsters that watch this show, and and I use the word ego a lot. You used it. Just give your your statement or your definition of what ego is, man, because they may not know they're hey, I've heard this word, I've heard ego. Just break it down. What is ego? I'll give some examples.
SPEAKER_00That's a good question. Ego. Ego who's is for me, ego is like who I think I am or who I think I think you should think I am. I think I said that right, right? Yeah, I heard that. I think you should think that I am this, but I'm not, I'm not, I'm not a fucking cop. I'm not a fucking cop, you know. I'm a I'm a dad and I'm a husband. That's my number one priority. Hell yeah, dude. You know? I could get it, I could go on my way home, get in a car accident, and fucking tomorrow be paralyzed, and I'm not a cop no more. And the city ain't gonna keep me. There's nothing I can do. You know, I could get sick and get diagnosed with something, and I could
Note: The previous chapter order remains chronological within 6559 seconds
SPEAKER_00be out of work and I'm not gonna be a cop anymore, but I'll still be a husband and I'll still be a father. You can't take that. You can't take that from me. You know what find out who you are, and everything else is ego.
SPEAKER_02I think, dude, fucking A, bro. Thank you for coming on the show, dude. Yes, sir. I appreciate in touch, bro. Yeah, I appreciate you. I don't have too many friends, man, but yeah, I feel like you're my friend now, dude.
SPEAKER_00Hey, hey, we're best friends now. We gotta hang out, bro, for sure.
SPEAKER_02Yep. There you guys have it, folks. Oh my god, unbelievable. This is the beginning of 2026, and this is just a start, man. God keeps blessing us, and like he said, keep paying it forward. Yeah, love you. If you like what you saw, make sure you hit the subscribe button. Keep pushing forward, you're gonna be able to do it.
SPEAKER_04Living life.
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