EPISODE 68: The Tulsa Massacre

A bathroom trip. A scream. Then an entire neighborhood set on fire. We take you through the 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre—how Greenwood, called Black Wall Street for its thriving Black-owned businesses, became a target and how a lie in print turned into a night of terror. We start with the moment in the elevator, follow the swelling mob at the courthouse, and track the split-second when a standoff became a gunfight. From there, we map the looting of shops, the torching of homes, and the chilling reports of private planes dropping incendiaries over a U.S. city. The numbers are staggering: thousands displaced, hundreds injured, and a death toll that history tried to blur.

Along the way, we talk about the systems that enabled it—Jim Crow, a complicit press, and a civic response that detained victims rather than protected them. We look at the Red Cross records that kept human details alive when official channels went quiet, and we examine how Greenwood was rezoned and diminished even as residents fought to rebuild. This isn’t just a timeline; it’s a study of wealth destroyed, memory suppressed, and the long arc of denial that delayed any conversation about reparations for generations.

We also share why this history wasn’t taught to many of us, how commissions in the 1990s and 2000s reframed “riot” as “massacre,” and what meaningful remembrance can look like now: accurate curricula, support for descendant communities, and refusal to sanitize the past. Stick around for our music feature—Septarian’s Threshold—adding cathartic weight to the story we just walked through. If this episode taught you something new, help us keep these truths in the light: follow, share with a friend, and leave a review with the one moment that hit you hardest. Your voice helps this history stay visible.

HEY CHECK OUT THE BAND THIS WEEK!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kmDvcZLH-c

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AS ALWAYS D-A-S

Transcript

Warm-Up, Drinks, And Banter

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey Jesse. Hey Landon. Oh shit. Hey, Lindsay. Hey, Lindsay. You call me Lindsay. That's weird. Oh, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 0:11

It used to be hey mommy. Yes. Say mommy. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

No, do it landing.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

Do it, mom. Do say mommy.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

But what do you say when I come into work when you're already there?

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Hey, mother.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Mother.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Mother. Or madre.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Tell your children not to walk my way. All right, Jesse, what are you drinking today?

SPEAKER_03 0:32

I had like uh some kind of crown vanilla and energy drink of some sort of that you gave me. What was it? It had like uh coke. What was it like? A cherry coke. Cherry slush.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Cherry slush.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

So I really like the Alani Hawaiian shaved ice. And they didn't have any singles at Walmart. So I was like, I'm gonna get this whole case.

SPEAKER_03 0:57

You got the whole packy?

SPEAKER_01 0:59

So it came with cherry slush, which is also delicious. The juicy peach. You had that last time.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

The whole package of waya. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

And the Hawaiian shaved ice.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

So it's like vacation.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

So we could be geeked up all weekend. Yeah, Hawaiian shaved ice is like wide-eyed and bushy-tailed.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

Landon, what are you drinking over there? Oh, you're drinking root beer.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Root beer, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

Oh, root beer in your house Gen Z Targaryen cups. Roots beer.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

You're going to close that blind. I'm blinded by the many, many of cups we have.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

What are you drinking, Miss Lindsay? What are you drinking over there, Miss Lindsay?

SPEAKER_01 1:31

I've got a bod side with lime and freshly squeezed lime and lemon and a little bit of lemon juice. Juice. With um the all the sparkling water.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

So we feel like Landon has settled in over here. He's like partying with us for the last month.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

He's our tri-host. Not co-host. He's the tri-host.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Tri-host, the third leg, Landon over here. Third leg. Yeah, from House of Not House of Dragons. What was it? From um the new Game of Thrones thing, the third leg guy. What's his name? Oh, the Oh God.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

From the Knights of the Seven Kingdoms. Yeah, Knights of the Seven Kingdom. That's what we're doing. We're so horrible with names. Sir Pennyworth. Yeah, Sir Penny.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Is it Pennyworth?

SPEAKER_02 2:16

It's Pennyworth, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

You're so good with that. I love Penny.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

Landon knows his Game of Thrones. Dude, you got more Game of Thrones time. Like, okay, we're watching Game of Thrones, and it's like, who was that, Landon? And you're like, chiming in, dude. You know the names of the none of us knew.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

The other dude from I still don't know. John.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Uh it's his name was God damn it. Edward or something. No, Edison. Edison. Edison. Edison. Edison Tollett.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

Yeah, the one.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

And I was like, God damn it, why didn't you like tourists?

SPEAKER_03 2:44

At Castle Black, yeah, after he got unalived.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

He's the G, though. Like, he's a why don't we know his name after nine?

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Do you really feel like Red Queen kind of fucking earned her stripes back a little bit there, but like at the same time, at the same time the Red Queen?

SPEAKER_02 2:59

Okay, so earned the princess. Sorry, we're getting a thrones.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

She gets two good points with me. She brings Jon Snow back.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Oh, and then at the long night when she starts all the double fire swords. The fire. And she does the trench, too. She always does the trench.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Yes, when she lights all the fires through the long night, and then when she brings brings Jon Snow back. Sorry, spoilers.

SPEAKER_03 3:28

And she loses all the points. Yeah, she loses all the points when she takes her necklace off. Anyhow, Lindsay.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

But anyways, get this shit started.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

Holy shittery, Lindsay. I'm not ready for this.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

You're not.

SPEAKER_03 3:43

But we're gonna do it anyhow. Happy Friday, everybody!

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Woo!

SPEAKER_03 4:13

Lindsay, I think this drink is deadly to me.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Deadly?

SPEAKER_03 4:16

It is deadly good. It is so good.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

So you know it's coming. Do you need me to give you your notes? You know what it is? Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

I don't need to read my own notes. Nobody makes me. Nobody makes me read my own notes. No, uh trying to remember things and then acting like you remember it. Have you had those occasions where you're like, oh my god, I think I remember this, but I don't remember it, but I should remember it, and you're like, play it off and you're like, Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Especially these days.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

Oh my God. Yes, I remember that. And you're like, you have no damn clue. I I mean, it's kind of shameful. You should be honest with yourself, but at the same time, you know that you knew it, but you don't know it because you don't remember that you knew it.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Well, you're ashamed that you don't remember something that you should.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

Yeah. Yeah. So that's what it is. That's what it is. You just kind of play it off, and then and then usually somebody will elaborate, then it clicks. Usually. That's what you're waiting on. You're waiting on somebody to actually plug in enough to where it clicks in your brain. You're like, oh yeah, I fucking really do remember this. But I was playing cool to be to at the beginning, you know.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Well, we're in our 40s, and I heard that when you're in your 50s, all your fucks have have left the building.

SPEAKER_03 5:29

I call it sometimes instead of all timers.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

And you will just be like, nah, I don't remember that shit, bruh. But right now, we're still a little shameful.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

But in our 50s, we'll be like, I don't remember.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

So you're playing it off, though. You're like, you're you're faking the funk, really. Like at our age, I think we fake the funk more between 40 and 60. You're like really faking.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Because right now we're feeling that shame that we don't remember because we're getting older.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

So somebody should be walking beside you with a bell. Sting shame.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Shame.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Shame. Yeah. Sting. Shame. Yeah. I want to do the walk of atonement one time. Just one time through Lake City. Just fucking do the walk through atonement. You know, strip my clothes down.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

All right. You heard it here first. I'm going to get an entourage of people to throw shit and piss on Jesse as he walks through Lake City naked.

SPEAKER_03 6:23

Yeah, as long as the dudes jump out with the city.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Okay, so where's going to be your um safe haven points?

Game Of Thrones And Feeling Old

SPEAKER_03 6:28

No, I'm going to walk through the courthouse, through I'm walking all the way downtown Main Street, dude. All the way. I mean, the Blanche Center, everything, dude. I'm walking all the way to the railroad tracks, dude. I'm making it. Making my way downtown Main.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Are you going to be the Shane Beller? Ding. Shame.

SPEAKER_03 6:49

Ding ding. Shame. Shame. Who's going to throw poop? I got to call my friends, dude.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Yes. Say, hey guys, I need you all to shit in the bucket.

SPEAKER_03 6:58

Yeah. I'm not doing it unless Todd Bryant pops out like fully nude and flashes me and be like, come on, come on, tag in the episode when we post it. Dude, his afro was so amazing the other day. He is sexy ass human being.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

And he's always had that. So I mean, I don't know him like you do by any means.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

But my best friends.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Many years ago, so here's what made me feel old because you mentioned Todd. So because I always go off the dome. Jesse has notes. I go off the dome.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Lindsay just pulls it out. So does she really remember? She's many years ago.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

I'm 43 right now. Uh when I was 12 years old, which is Silas's age. Um, I volunteered at the VA. And what you do is you sign up to volunteer. You're basically like a free paid employee. Yeah. And uh Todd was in his like second year, I think, volunteering. And that's where I first met him.

SPEAKER_03 7:48

Yeah, earning the stripes. Yeah. And he's still there. Still never left. That is his whole realm.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Well, that is the whole, I think that's the whole point, usually, in volunteering there. That only did it once summer.

SPEAKER_03 8:01

To aspire to actually work there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

And now I really enjoyed my time there. I really did.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

And very admirable. It is nice. I mean, the VA is a good spot. I think we need to take Silas over there and let him experience some of that. And just have the stories like you had with some of the veterans and things and really grasp some of that, make them feel comfortable in that area through whatever they're going through. And those conversations meant a lot to them.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Um, fortunately, when I was in school, if you made good grades, they chose you for this um program called the Vital Program, where you got to go every, I think it was every Tuesday and go basically visit and and have be comfort to some of the veterans at the VA hospital. And we would all get assigned our own little veterans. And I had two different ones because sometimes they were permanent residents of the VA hospital, sometimes they were just there temporarily. So I had two different ones, and it was a really cool experience. And then like I still mingled with some of the other uh students, veterans as well. Like we, you know, we were all like a little fam.

SPEAKER_04 9:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

And that was a really cool experience as well, which made me want to go back. But the older I got, I developed like this phobia of hospitals because there was a lot of people in my life that passed away.

SPEAKER_03 9:29

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

When I was younger. And so I associated all of that with death. And yeah, it was the whole thing. Yeah. I probably should talk to somebody about it. I don't like hospitals, I don't like funerals. Like, it just makes me very depressed.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

Uh well, I mean, it's part of life. It takes a toll on me. Yeah, it takes a toll on me.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

The older we get, it is the more you're which I'm sure it takes a toll on anybody, but it like really brings me down to where it affects my life.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

So yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll work on that together. I got you, girl. And and a little history lesson behind uh the Lake City, Florida VA hospital. That was actually the University of Florida at one time.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Yes, I do know that. I did know that.

SPEAKER_03 10:12

The original University of Florida.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Or the original, yeah, US.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

Yeah, a little bit of conflict there, and they moved down to Gainesville. So things changed right there. So that's that's some some cool history too. But I'm glad you had that time, and I'm glad that you know, Todd, my old my old bestie over there is still kicking ass over there. My sister's still kicking ass over there. So we have people in our community and our family that's really close to us. I know several people were yeah, that's really good.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

So, Lannon, anything make you feel old this week?

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Um, you know what made me feel old? Silas saying he felt old because he's still you remember we were sitting there on the couch watching Game of Thrones. He said, Oh, that makes me feel old. I don't remember what it was about, but he said that made me feel old.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

Watching it for so many years, that's what he was like, dude. I've already seen this like four years ago, and he's like feeling old.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

He said, This makes me feel old, or something. I was like, What? You're 12.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

No, it's like it reminds me of little rascals, little rascals when they're like, from the beginning of time, five years when they're talking about the race car.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Well, and also the other thing that made me feel old was that um entourage of 90s country that I shared to you that's turning 30 this year because that doesn't even make any sense.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

You can't do that.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

That and that's that was 1996, yeah. Murray. I was gonna play them all, but I don't know. I don't want to get sued for like musical.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

Yeah, no, no, but we don't have Brooks and Dunn fucking we don't have the credentials.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Come on now, Ronnie. Y'all got enough money. I don't need to sue the low me.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

No credenti on that one, but no, yeah. Uh it was like Alan Jackson and there was like a couple other people like strawberry.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

Yeah, it does it does suck. 30 years old.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

Landon, you live in the 70s. Can you believe all the music that you listen to is that old? That should make you feel old. And I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Landon is uh he's been jamming to my Bob, my Bob Seeger lately. And that makes me so proud, but also makes me feel ancient at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 12:17

Awesome. I love and old the feng shui and the uh awareness of just good ass jams, Lindsay. I love that our kids embrace all of that.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Night moves is a good song, night moves is a good song.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

And Joey, Joey from Friends, Matt LeBlanc, he is featured in that music video.

SPEAKER_03 12:37

I think we need an Eagles Day, me and you. We're doing Hotel, California.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

I only like the songs that are led by Don Hill. I'm a Don Henley fan.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

I love them all. I don't care. Well, what are you talking about over here, Lindsay? Gosh.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Well, if you're new here, what do we do, Jesse? And we'll let you do it.

SPEAKER_03 12:57

We do stories by Lindsay, which are true crime horrific stories that I usually don't know shit about. And then uh at the end of it, I like to play a band that I do have permission to play. And at the same time, we like to have guests, and Lennon is our guest today. Yeah, been a guest for a couple of episodes. He has been a guest.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

We're loving it. We're loving it.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

He's a resident guest.

Volunteering At The VA And Hospital Phobia

SPEAKER_01 13:20

He's in his uh residency as a podcaster.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

Yes, for the month of Feb.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

So we're still in Black History Month, and I want to share one more story before we close out the month.

SPEAKER_03 13:33

Yeah, see, like, okay, I wanted to I want to say a little quick thing about that. I have been saying African American forever, but I did not know that they just call it black American now. I did not know that.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Well, because I mean, not all of the black community is from Africa. I mean, you got Haiti, you got South America, you got all kinds of generations. Yeah, Aboriginal folks.

SPEAKER_03 13:54

Yeah, I get it. I thought it so black American, I'm gonna try to just start saying that from now on because like first First Nations people, indigenous, first indigenous native native people or whatever. Like, there's a there's a whole line there. I just want to make sure everybody's happy, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

I'll say like uh when I was younger, my cousin Charity dated uh black Puerto Rican.

SPEAKER_04 14:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Beautiful kids, by the way. Like, I mean, I I'm I was of age to be able to say that back then. Yeah. He was a kid then. He's grown now. Right.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

Yeah, yeah. So that's not weird and creepy. We just try to make sure all the staples are stapled. Yes. That way everybody has, you know, full respect and full, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

No offensiveness.

SPEAKER_03 14:37

Nothing, nothing, nothing. We make sure we have all the good intentions. Everything is due, what is due and is due whenever's due, because we want to make sure it's due.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

So, what we're drinking about today is the Tulsa massacre.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

Massacre in Tulsa. Yes, here we go.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Uh, which will be aka the Black Wall Street.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

Is this some bullshit like what we did talked about last week?

SPEAKER_01 14:59

It is, kind of like, but in a whole different area. So last week we talked about Rosewood, Florida. This week we are in Tulsa, Oklahoma in 1921. So this actually happened before Rosewood. I just kind of looked back and I've been going backwards in time, but I don't like that because we did go backwards in time. So Emmett Till was in the 50s, and then Rosewood was in 1923, and then Tulsa that we're gonna talk about today was in 1921. And I hate that because that's a big gap where shit should have been different, but it wasn't.

SPEAKER_03 15:39

Well, and we talked about Kendrick, you know.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

This is off topic, but like t there's a show on uh I don't know where it's on, it's probably Tulsa King. Yeah, Tulsa King has Sylvester Salon. Yeah, it's about Tulsa, Oklahoma. Yeah, for sure. It's in that same city, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Totally different scenario. Totally different in the true crime. I have heard that that's an amazing show. Yeah, yeah. Uh and Jojo's watching that right now.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

With the black American community, though, we gotta we gotta focus on that scenario. But I do love Tulsa King. I do. Have you watched it? No, I've I think I watched one episode.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

You watched any of the landman stuff too? No. Oh, you gotta watch some of that too, bro. Anyhow, Lindsay, you have stories. Oh, this is not a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Well, you said falling because this one's horrible.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

You said Wall Street in the middle of the day.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

That means they were what? Thriving, prosperous man, yes. Came up from the slavery times. But here we go. All right, so in 1921, Tulsa, Oklahoma was a booming oil town, and the black community had their own district known as Greenwood, which was on the north side of Tulsa. They had their own district because a law had been passed for an ordinance of residential segregation. Like if more members on any block were more of one race than the other, the race that was less populated had to move.

SPEAKER_03 17:08

Had to deuce out. Yeah, had to move. Some more Jim Crow bullshit, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Yes. Oh my god. Fuck Jim Crow. That's the uh that's the theme of this whole month. Fuck Jim Crow.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Yes, this is fuck Jim Crow month. And you know what? At the same time in 1776, we should have abolished all this bullshit to be given.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Yeah, well, we uh we both spoke about that yesterday, where uh that whole shit was written was originally written into the Declaration of Independence. Oh, it's called capitalism, Lindsay. Uh but they were like, nah, we want our free labor. Let's let's not talk about that.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

Yeah, if you're a billionaire, why?

SPEAKER_01 17:48

So after this ordinance went into effect, the Supreme Court said that this was unconstitutional, but Tulsa was like, we don't give a fuck, we're gonna do it anyway. So uh racial tension was very high, and the KKK was on the rise. So the KKK actually started in 1915. Really? So we're in 1921.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

With like Forrest Gump's uncle or some shit, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:17

General, but what was his name? General Bedford Buford Bump.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

Bedford Forrest Gump. Yeah, it's not like that. Yeah, whatever. That guy. Yeah. And there's real history behind that, really. There's real history for real. Yes. Yeah, they just wrote Forrest's story behind that.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Real history of that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

That's why that movie just is iconic.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

It really hits.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

So out of 72,000 residents of Tulsa, 3,200 were KKK members.

SPEAKER_03 18:48

Are you fucking kidding me right now?

SPEAKER_01 18:51

What's that? Like 3%? Something like that?

SPEAKER_03 18:53

That's a fucking shit ton of fuckery. That's a lot of people fixing it go down in Oklahoma. So then they already had like how long was it before that? Let me think.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Well, they were only in effect about six years.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

60 years before that. No, no, 60 years before that, they had the Trelleteers, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Yes, something like that.

SPEAKER_03 19:12

So there was like a huge influx of in Indigenous folks that that got removed away from their land and dumped off into that too. Wow.

Show Format And Black History Month Focus

SPEAKER_01 19:20

And I want to talk when so uh this coming November, I want to talk a little bit more about indigenous history because it it's just as bad.

SPEAKER_03 19:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Uh so Greenwood had been established in 1906. So by 2020 or 1921, not 2021. 1921, they had a thriving community. They were indeed called the Black Wall Street. They had everything you needed, they had their own leaders, uh, successful businesses, theaters, nightclubs. They were doing the thing. Like, I can't even express to you without you doing your own research how amazing this community was.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

So between this one and everything. Right. Between this one and Rosewood, if they would have taken notes, you know, the whole economy would have been so much better off.

unknown 20:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:20

Take fucking notes. Don't fucking demolish. This is gonna be another demolished thing. And you know, I didn't even agree. I don't want to do it, Lindsay. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

But I did not realize that Oklahoma had only been a state since 1907. So a 19-year-old named Dick Roland, uh, he was a shoe shiner who worked at a parlor on Main Street. On May 30th, he had to go to the bathroom. The bathroom that he was allowed to use was on the top floor of the drexal building. And this bathroom was arranged by his employer for that employer's employees to use. Like everything was on the up and up. Well, the elevator that he had to take was operated manually at that time. So, you know, now like I'm look- I'm I'm talking to Landon at this point. We've been in a lot of elevators, you just push a button now. Well, back then a person had to do that for you.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

And they had to like pull an operator that had a job, and that was his job. I love elevator operators. That's cool, that's really elegant.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

Well, the employee that was operating was a 21-year-old white woman named Sarah Page. It said that the elevator had an issue leveling out at the top that could possibly have made Dick trip and fall into Sarah, who let out a scream, and then Dick was seen running away from the elevator. A clerk. At Renberg's, which is a clothing store on the first floor, he heard Sarah scream, saw Dick running, and assumed the worst.

SPEAKER_03 22:10

No fucking way, Lindsay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Here we go. Here we go.

unknown 22:15

Fuck.

Setting The Stage: Tulsa And Greenwood

SPEAKER_01 22:16

The clerk said that he found Sarah in a distraught state and thought that she had been sexually assaulted and went and alerted the authorities. Sarah would say in her statement that Dick had grabbed her arm and nothing more. Nothing. And I capitalized that in my notes. Nothing.

SPEAKER_03 22:41

Elevator bump and lost his footing and sorry, ma'am. And then fucking probably deuced out, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:47

But he okay, so Dick was probably terrified that he had accidentally touched a white woman, and that's why he was seen running.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

I wanted to do that with you because I know how fucking stupid this is fucking stupid.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Right. And Sarah did not want to press any charges. But a manhunt for Dick was still launched and he was arrested on May 31st. By the way, May 30th, the day that this happened was Memorial Day. So Memorial Day was already established at that time because we had just gone through World War One, where a shit ton of the black community men had fought in this war and then came home and still had to be oppressed. Right. By the way.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

Here we go. Yeah, you can't use this bathroom anymore. You're not cool enough. Even though you went overseas and died, and the tear gas and the crazy shit from World War I was so much more horrific than you can ever imagine. Put their lives on the line, then come back to oppression again.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Just right back. So a lot of the local legal professionals in the area knew Dick because he had shined their shoes many times, and they all agreed that he was being wrongfully accused. They were like, no, that's not in this kid. Like it, that's literally in Wikipedia, where I got a lot of this information.

SPEAKER_03 24:13

As per every scenario this month that you've talked about, Lindsay.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

Right. And a lot of people can tell like how a person is by the way they act.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Well, it was just, and he was just trying to go to the bathroom.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

You know? And they had to go to designated bathrooms. So, and this one just happened to be on the top floor, which you had to get to by an elevator, which was operated by a white woman.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

Yeah. Old Jim Crow wouldn't even let uh people of different color use the same fucking water fountain.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Right. And this time the white woman wasn't even crying rape or crying assault.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

She said no, nothing happened. But they're still gonna goddamn go, we're gonna go get you shotgun, sons of bitches, and you damn dogs, and we're gonna get our mask on. You fuck.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

So the Tulsa Tribune decided to print that Dick had been arrested for attacking a girl in an elevator and presumed that he was going to be lynched. He tripped in grabbed her and elevator.

SPEAKER_03 25:13

You mean he just literally was in a you know, elevators had cable pulleys and and you know, whatever shottiness. Yeah, yeah. Just you you tripped and fell and was like, oh, I'm sorry, ma'am. And that was probably it. And he's like, holy fuck, I actually touched a white woman. I better fucking run. I better run. For my life. For my life, exactly. Landsey, no, you can't do this in front of Landon. He he's not ready.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

I'm not ready. And they probably he's probably heard about the cases you've talked about previously.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Well, no, because this was before that. This was before Emmett Till. Yeah. This is before Emmett Tilt.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

Yeah, like almost 30 years before Emmett Till. Yeah. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

This is before Rosewood. Like I said, I kind of went backwards in time, not intentionally, but when shit got brought to my attention, I'm like, oh my God, I need to talk about that. No, I think you line it up right.

SPEAKER_03 26:01

But at the same time, it's like this is the beginning of what snowballed all the way up to Emmettil, Rosewood, and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Yeah, because decades later, nothing had changed in certain areas. Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:14

And the towns like you were talking about in Georgia and just so many.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

And there's so many more that I'm gonna have to wait until next February to cover.

SPEAKER_03 26:24

Fuck, y'all better in for that one because it's just it's a lot. It's a lot. We're gonna be doing this every February.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Every February, because it needs to be recognized so we don't repeat it. Because history is trying to repeat itself right now. And I don't want it to happen. I don't want to see it happen in our lifetime. But after everyone read those headlines, white residents began to mob around the courthouse, basically demanding that Dick be released so he could be lynched. Yeah. They wanted to see this guy lynched without any proof that he had actually done anything.

SPEAKER_03 27:02

Fucking Tulsa. Fuck.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Well, Sheriff Willard McCullough uh did not want this to happen. He was trying to do the right thing.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

So another middleman trying to fucking hold the peace, just like last one.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

So he formed a barricade around the courthouse, and his orders were to shoot anyone that would attempt to cross that barricade. So he was, I mean, like, armed forces do not let anybody cross this line and try to get at Dick Rogan.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

I can picture this.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:35

I can picture this, yeah.

The Elevator Incident And Arrest

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Some of the black men of Greenwood was would receive word that they were to report to the courthouse armed. I don't know where this breakdown of communication went, but they received word that they were supposed to arrive with guns.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

So now they're trying to co-mob against the mob, though. They're trying to rise up and protect themselves and their livelihood. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

So doing what they thought they were being ordered to do, around 50 to 60 armed men of Greenwood would arrive to support the defense of Dick Roland. Sheriff McCullough would publicly say that he had not given these orders. So that pissed the wife people off. And they decided to go and retrieve their own weapons because now they feel like the black community is up in arms. It's set ablaze.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

It's set ablaze now at the courthouse. Boom. Now we have fucking full-on rights to fucking go on to a mob with arms.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

This was about a thousand white men. Lindsay, this big 50 to 60 black men, a thousand white men.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

Lindsay. This is no. I don't okay, but I'm this is not a no. This is gonna be shitty. Lindsay, I don't know this part.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Now some went home to get their own guns that they had in their house, and some went to the National Guard Armory to basically break in and take guns from there. Major James Bell of the 180th Infantry Regiment was in fear of a break-in. So he called the commanders of all three Tulsa units of the armory uh to repost for duty. Like suit up, do the thing. Yeah, there's a storm on the fucking armory. Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Now one group of white men did indeed try and break in. Like they they took the bars that were on the windows, yanked them off, trying to get guns because now they were in fear that the black community was trying to overtake them. But at the same time, like I said again, there's a thousand white dudes, there's 50 to 60 black men. That's not even close.

SPEAKER_03 29:47

No, the local law enforcement should should have been able to hold that down. But you got so many charismic fucking racist ass white dudes that that are out for blood no matter what. Because over a dude bumping and hitting the girls on. Oh my god, and touched a white woman. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Well, and also the audacity of them showing up with guns because they thought they were ordered to do so.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

Oh yeah, no, no, that gave them the full green light in their mind.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Right. Now, back at the courthouse, the mob had now grown to about 2,000 white men.

SPEAKER_03 30:23

You're shitting me right now. Don't look at me with that shit in your face right now. You're looking at me with full-on shit you're throwing at me.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

And everyone in Greenwood was terrified, rightfully so.

SPEAKER_04 30:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

More of the Greenwood residents would come to the courthouse to make sure that Dick Rowland was safe. And the white people would call this an inward uprising.

SPEAKER_04 30:46

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 30:47

And several shots were fired from both sides, uh, basically up in the air through the night.

SPEAKER_03 30:54

Hootin' root.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

This was like a standoff, right? Nobody was actually shooting at each other just yet. It was just a bunch of gunshots.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

Right. Testosterone field, racist field, fucking got nothing better to do. Bitch, go bowling. Go do they had bowling. Go do some fucking roller skates. Yes, they did. They had fucking roller skates. Remember, we talked about later. We talked about roller skates.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

Now the skating, yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

But I don't know about go do some shuffleboarding, though.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Go play baseball. Go play baseball. Yeah. Football. Something.

SPEAKER_03 31:26

Yes. Yeah, go crochet. Go do some macrome. Fuckers. Do something. Fond of some oil.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Go help your wife with the house.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

I feel like if painting with a twist would have been around back then, fuck. It'd have been way better off.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Well, as you can see, the more people have to do, the less shit like that.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Yeah, you got something to do. Get the fuck out and quit being in fear and wanting to join something where you feel like you're free. What the fuck? Dude, just let everybody be everybody and let them do their thing. A dude bumped somebody and grabbed them accident. Probably said sorry, ma'am, and left. And reading it.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

Unfortunately, it was speculated that there was a lover's quarrel, but that was the elevator or somebody just trying to go piss.

SPEAKER_03 32:09

Yeah, he's just trying to go piss. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

So the sheriff assured that Dick was safe, and all the black men were going to return to Greenwood. They're like, okay, thank you. Bye. But one white man attempted to disarm one black man who was the black man a World War I veteran.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

There you go. He's going to fight for his fucking.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

Yeah, so he's on that shit. He's been through it.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's going to fight for his humanity and his manhood and his rights. Exactly. Trying to take my right. Exactly, Landon. He has the full on right to be there and do what he's doing. And somebody's trying to take his Second Amendment fucking establishment.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Yeah, he's just probably holding his gun in his little sling. No hell no, boy.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

You ain't allowed to have no gun around me, boy. Dang them don't do.

Courthouse Mob And Armed Standoff

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Well, after this, the sheriff said that, quote, all hell broke loose. Unquote. Gunfire started being exchanged between both groups, and 10 white men and two black men were shot dead. So now, like I said earlier, they were shooting in the air. Now they're not going to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

So this has become a whole fucking horrific war.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

Now another account, because a lot of this is lost to history because it was 1921. So another account was that there was an attack of six white men on one black man, and black store owners rushed out of their businesses to help because they saw this one guy being overtaken by six men, and this is what caused the shootout. So there's a couple of different versions of the story. Like I said, a lot, a lot is lost to history. So it said that the men of Greenwood retrieved and headed back home, and the white mob continued after them, and a rolling gun fight would carry on. The white men started looting and setting fire to the black-owned businesses. Now the National Guard did step in in this instance. Remember, like I said, in Rosewood, they were on standby, but the white sheriff, which we did see, was played by the same character that played Yondu. Yo, Yondu. So while we were watching the movie, it was just Yondu. Like, that's Yondu. We don't know his real name.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Is there a movie about this? Is there a doc or a movie about this?

SPEAKER_01 34:47

I cannot find a movie about this.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

This is way bigger. What we need to do. We need to we need to make something. I'm gonna call up my buddy Chris. We're gonna make a movie.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Well the National Guard, the National Guard stepped in and started rounding up black residents and took them into the convention hall for detention. So it was basically like if you were black, you were being arrested.

SPEAKER_03 35:12

You're all detained.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

And you were being detained. You had no idea why it was just happening.

SPEAKER_03 35:17

At the same time, they're probably trying to round everybody up to try to put them in a safe spot too.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Well, yes. So from what I read in research, like that is what their intention was, but a lot of the black community did not know why. They're being detained.

SPEAKER_03 35:33

Why are we exactly yeah? So, yeah, they didn't have the knowledge of hey, y'all need to come on in this building to save you, or this is gonna get fucking shitty because there's a whole mob that's out for blood and they don't care. Or it could have been like Rosewood and they just start rebelling and fighting against, and they're just like, dude, we don't know what the fuck's going on. We want our livelihood and our things, right? I mean, I get that too.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

No, no, no, no, no. I'm not saying it, or it could have just been like Rosewood and they were just rounding up people of color to do it.

SPEAKER_03 36:05

Oh, to try to burn the barn, right? Lock them in the barn. They're all together now, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:09

I'm hoping that some of the white people had good intentions. Yeah, I'm trying to lean that.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

I'm trying to lean toward that. That's why I'm saying that. I'm trying to lean toward that, but I don't think this fucking the plant's not gonna hold me this fucking week, Lindsay.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

Yeah, because Robert, he is uh, so our Robert plant is uh I had to trim him back. I had to prune him. I see him sprouting over here. But he's got some new growth.

SPEAKER_03 36:33

He's sprouting. Is it spring in Florida already? Not yet.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

And then, but Courtney, she's over here, she's flourishing, she's got a bloom.

SPEAKER_03 36:40

Courtney over here is looking forward to the body.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

She is like, yes, there's no dead leaves. She's got it going on.

SPEAKER_03 36:46

But Robert Plant is looking good.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

I'm gonna turn toward him because Courtney just played at the Emmys, so yeah. Soft spine. Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_03 36:57

Robert, you're looking good, bro. You're looking good, bro.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Well, gunfighting would continue long into the night and early morning hours of June 1st. White men of the mob started throwing oil-lit rags into businesses. I think it was actually kerosene. I'm not 100% sure. I'm so sorry. I wrote oil, but I think it was kerosene.

SPEAKER_03 37:19

Either way, it's all yes.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

So they would throw these rags into the businesses and residents of Greenwood, setting everything on fire. And some of the white residents who had black employees in their house, like cooks and housekeepers, they were forced to turn over their employees to go to the detention center.

SPEAKER_03 37:44

That is very much so not what I was thinking, Lindsay.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

And all the white people complied.

SPEAKER_03 37:50

Well, fear is your only God.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

I would hope. I really just I think I think about situations like this, and I would really think that I would just be because I'm a rebellious person.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

Yeah. Yeah, I would I would be trying to fight for my fucking whole livelihood and every you know, and I would just hope that I would stand up for my valued employee. Yeah, for sure. I would fight tooth and nail. They would have had I would have gone down with them. I would have been like, no, wait a minute. These are the people that help me and and do everything for my for my business and everything. I consider these people the same as me.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Right.

SPEAKER_03 38:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

Now the Tulsa fire department, they tried to intervene, but were forced away at gunpoint.

SPEAKER_03 38:40

So once again, once again, they're forced away at gunpoint. Yes. You can't fuck with them because they fucking mobbed up and they own so many different ownerships.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

Wait, the fire department? The fire department was a a part of the mob. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

They were trying to help trying to come help. Oh, and the mob was telling them to turn around, go away.

SPEAKER_03 38:59

Yeah, you're not allowed, you're not allowed to put these fires out.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

They're not allowed. Let this shit burn.

Gunfire, Looting, And National Guard

SPEAKER_03 39:03

This community's doing too good for us. We're jealous as fuck, and we talked about that in Rosewood too. People are fucking jealous of the come up that they're trying to deform and and and do. And dude, I can't, I don't even have the words for the amazing people in the early 1900s.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

They were doing so well.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

Doing so well.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

And that's what I said in the last episode. It's like we abolished slavery, we let them come up, and then brought them back down. Right. And I don't even want to associate we because I would not be a part of this.

SPEAKER_03 39:37

Yeah, there's no we on it.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

I'm just too rebellious of a person. I stand up for what's right, and I would probably, like I said, if I was a witch back in the trial days, I would have been burned.

SPEAKER_03 39:49

So which would you have been, though, Lindsay? What's your favorite witch? Which is your favorite witch?

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Well, none of them that were prosecuted were actually witches. So, but a healer, I believe that I would have been a healer. And I probably would have been burned for that shit. And I probably would have been burned for having opinions and for speaking my mind. A hundred percent because I can't control that. It just comes out of my mouth. Yeah. I can't be silenced.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

I get it. I get it.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

I I see though, also, if we deep dive into Ursula a little bit, you know, I feel like her brother did her wrong and she was just trying to get back at him, you know. I mean, Ursula.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

Every villain has an origin story.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

Don't they?

SPEAKER_01 40:32

They too.

SPEAKER_03 40:33

I love Ursula, and I love that you love Ursula.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

I love Ursula.

SPEAKER_03 40:36

The Sea Witch is the the fucking top witch for me.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Well, somebody asked me why I love the villains a lot in Disney movies. I'm like, because they have the best songs.

SPEAKER_04 40:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:49

The writers always, the composers, they always give the villains the kick-ass songs. Poor Unfortunate Soul was the tits. And uh what's the scars song? Scars. Oh my god. Oh, be well.

SPEAKER_03 41:05

Beep.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Yeah, that's my favorite.

SPEAKER_03 41:08

When they cut that off, I was a live one, Lindsay.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

I was done. I wanted to walk out of the theater.

SPEAKER_03 41:13

Yeah, Ursula, though, was the I mean, she went through some shit too. Yeah. I feel like she was an outcast too. Her her brother, King Triton over here.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

And we love Cruella's origin story.

SPEAKER_03 41:25

Do we? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Yeah. You were like, I want more after we watched that. Didn't I? You did. Yeah. Loved it.

SPEAKER_03 41:31

Yeah. I think, uh, I think uh rightfully so, though, um Ursula is fucking the the top witch.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

And Maleficent.

SPEAKER_03 41:41

There we go again. But yeah, I mean, I like Ursula, though. Mermaid and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

So by the way, the uh co-founder of Tulsa, uh Tate Brady, he was a member of the KKK. Fuck. And he participated in the riots as a night watchman.

SPEAKER_03 42:03

No fucking way.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

So it's gonna keep or it's gonna get worse for a few minutes here. Uh oh, actually, it's just gonna be worse throughout. Okay, so a privately owned aircraft operated by white men were now dropping firebombs onto buildings. So now they have aircraft. Early 1920 aircraft just dropping firebombs.

SPEAKER_03 42:30

Well, I mean, okay, Oklahoma itself is a lot of farm and stuff, so they probably had some planes because after World War I, there was a shit ton of the the by-wing planes and shit everywhere. So the military dumped that off into the community. So everybody had access to that. FAA didn't even give a fuck what you were flying when you were flying at the time. So a lot of people had access to planes, and they were doing that for like crops and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

A lot of people that knowledge because I was like, where the fuck do they have these planes? No, yeah. Why? Yeah, where and why?

SPEAKER_03 43:04

Yeah. Yeah. No, no, buddy, buddy's farm crop is is you know, corn or whatever, soybean, whatever they're growing in that area. Dude just had access to that, and there was a lot of people that had access to planes, and they FAA didn't give a fuck. You just flash it, you know. So that's that's where that came from, yeah, for sure. That's crazy as hell.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

So they are dropping these firebombs on buildings, homes, a gas station. God damn.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

Yeah, they don't give a fuck. They're trying to destroy the whole community.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

While people are running for their lives. I mean, just you know, of course they are. It's a war zone. Everything's just being settled. It's a war zone.

SPEAKER_03 43:46

Yeah, I can I can picture y'all.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

Completely. Yeah. The Oklahoma National Guard showed up, and the violence and destruction had subsided, and now there was around 10,000. Greenwood residents who were completely displaced and their entire existence had been destroyed simply because a young man had to go to the bathroom.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Ten thousand. Ten thousand. Wow. I'm disgusted right now.

SPEAKER_01 44:15

Now the death yeah. The death toll is not completely accurate, but it is believed to be anywhere from a hundred to three hundred, which is a huge gap.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

Fuck NA Lynn.

Aerial Firebombs And Greenwood’s Destruction

SPEAKER_01 44:30

And that's white and black combined. The Red Cross, though, uh, they got involved and they registered 8,624 people. 183 of these were hospitalized for gunshot wounds and burns. 531 required first aid and surgery. There were eight miscarriages reported because of this, and 19 died while under the Red Cross care.

SPEAKER_03 45:02

This is the biggest fuckery I've ever heard.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

Yeah, this is worse than Rosewood.

SPEAKER_03 45:06

Well, yeah, but by far.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

But Rosewood happened after.

SPEAKER_03 45:11

So we did not have uh lived in fear for 70 years after Rosewood, Lindsay.

SPEAKER_01 45:17

Well, they're they're gonna pretty much do the same here. Yeah. In less than a year, Red Cross had set up a hospital for black patients, and this was the first in Oklahoma's history. 191 businesses were destroyed and 1,256 houses.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

That is during this fucking insane.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Another 215 houses and businesses were looted. So that means they just went in there and just took shit.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

Oh, yeah. They felt yeah, they felt like they had the spoils of war. We can take over this whole community and all their fucking livelihood.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Property damage totaled at 1.5 million in that in in 1921 money.

SPEAKER_03 46:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

In 1921 money. That's like what, like 10 million now? Probably.

SPEAKER_03 46:12

How much was it? Closer to a billion.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Uh 1.5 million in 1921.

SPEAKER_03 46:17

Oh, that'd be like 100 million, wouldn't it? Closer to a billion, I think. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

And$750,000 in personal property destroyed.

SPEAKER_03 46:28

I don't believe any of that. I think it's fucking way more than.

SPEAKER_01 46:32

No, this was registered. This was this is what was filed. Right. We'll we'll say that. Yeah. Now the Red Cross helped set up camps for the displaced to live. So everyone was living in tents for quite some time. I think it was like a year. All these displaced residents.

SPEAKER_03 46:52

Here's what you get after this, even though the dude was just trying to take a piss.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

At least they had that because if the Red Cross hadn't gotten involved, they would have been just completely homeless and say fucking.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

Completely homeless. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

Yeah.

unknown 47:04

Shit.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

This riot and massacre was brought before the grand jury, and several witnesses were heard over a 12-day period, but no one was ever convicted. There was a meeting held to raise funds to rebuild this community, but that never really happened. Not like it would have been not like it was before. And the Green Ridge District would be rezoned for an industrial section.

SPEAKER_03 47:32

Oh, yeah. They wanted that spot, right? This is doing good. Let's take this area. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

Now, just like Rosewood, the Tulsa massacre was rarely mentioned in history and wasn't really talked about again until the 70s. So this was brought into recognition about a decade before Rosewood was.

SPEAKER_03 47:51

Wow. Let us know if you haven't heard anything about this before us.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

Landon, have you?

SPEAKER_03 47:56

I haven't. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 47:58

I have, but it wasn't brought to my attention until I was in my 30s.

SPEAKER_03 48:01

Oh, fuck. I mean, I just found out about this with talking about Rosewood with my coworker. And he's like, yeah, but what about Black Wall Street? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

In 1996, 1996, this happened in 2021. Uh, this was the 75th anniversary of the massacre. A commission was formed to start reporting and detailing uh the account so that it would be documented for history and historians. Right type purposes.

SPEAKER_03 48:34

So you mean 1921 to 1996?

SPEAKER_01 48:38

What did I say before that? 2021.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

You said this happened in 2020. Oh, I'm so sorry. Yeah, well, time, time, time.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

Time, time is crazy. Time is a theme. Time, time, time, time. Now, this commission was first named the Tulsa Race Riot Commission and then later renamed Tulsa Race Massacre Commission because it was more than a riot. It was a fucking massacre. Yeah. Right. In 2001, the commission recommended action for restitution. Because, yeah. The report asked for direct payments to survivors, their descendants, uh, and for a scholarship fund, establishment of an echo economic development, and now the historic area of Green Road District is a basically a memorial, and the reburial of the remains of the victims was put also in this commission uh for the victims of the massacre. So they wanted to basically dig up and find unmarked graves and bury everybody in one state.

SPEAKER_03 49:48

You know what's crazy about society? How fast people forget.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

So fast.

SPEAKER_03 49:54

It's insane to me.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Well, that's just like that chick that I keep bringing up with the foil hats. She says things that we moved on too fast from. And she'll bring in points of history or things that happened to individuals that were famous or things like that that we just moved on a little bit too fast from because holy shit, that's a big deal.

Death Toll, Displacement, And Red Cross

SPEAKER_03 50:18

You know, a five deal. Right. A five-minute plug once a month to people and just be like, oh yeah, by the way, we need to make sure that everybody is equal. We need to make sure that you respect everybody. Just a five-minute little conversation with anybody at any stage in life would really help fucking set everything equal and put a balance to humanity. Just a quick five-minute fucking conversation once a month would be fucking great. Come on, people. Do a quick little grab you by the shoulder. I know you're only 10, but I'm gonna tell you something to make you realize at your level that everybody is equal. Every human being on earth. We're all the same.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

Yeah. It doesn't matter that one race of people were sold to this country. That doesn't make them any less of a person. They're still a human being. We all bleed the same blood, we all have same the same internal organs. We are all human beings.

SPEAKER_03 51:24

Yeah, under the sun.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

Nobody's less or better than the other.

SPEAKER_03 51:27

Give people respect, you know? And if they're shitty people, just fucking walk away and tell them to fuck off and leave them alone. Whatever. But give everybody the same respect as you walk up.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 51:38

Now, whether they are cool or not, whoever they are, whatever, that's that's their integrity and their personality and whatever might not fit yours. You can always just walk away and not say a damn thing.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

Right.

SPEAKER_03 51:50

Just be done with it. Okay, I got you. I can I can feel your vibe and I can see it on you, and I'm just gonna dip out and just leave you alone and keep peace and let you be you, and I'm gonna be me. That's just the respect that everybody needs to give.

SPEAKER_01 52:04

Well, and you know, okay, so this happened in 2021, and then we talk about what happened to Emmett Till. And around that time, you know, so this is based on what I saw in the movie The Help. And I know that this is historically accurate.

SPEAKER_03 52:20

Oh, that pie was so good.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

Well, but they had so this is that's almost 30 years later, and now at that time, they had to use, they had, I mean, like employers were building separate bathrooms for their black employees.

SPEAKER_03 52:35

See, and if they would have let everybody if they would have just let everybody just be equals, that wouldn't even happen either, you know. People would would have had jobs or whatever, but there wouldn't be no diversity in the middle of it, you know? You're gonna let a woman hold your kid and and you're gonna let her but she can't use the same bathroom. But I'm gonna I'm gonna be a uh milkmaid to a to your child.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Uh wet nurse is what they called it. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 53:03

No, come on.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

Or eat at your table. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:06

Yeah. So fuck.

SPEAKER_01 53:09

Now, the most I could find out about uh reparations uh was there was a$105 million private trust that was set up for descendants in 2025. Over a hundred years later. You can't do this. There's there's nobody left, first of all, of the people that actually went through this. It took a hundred years. Over a hundred years.

SPEAKER_03 53:44

Oh, by the way, we can't give it to anybody because there's nobody left. Oh, we're gonna hide that to somebody else. Oh gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

Well, in remembrance of this horrible, horrible occurrence. Uh the Tulsa Historical Society has set up a virtual exhibit that is open to the public for free. And you can look at photos, listen to audio recordings, documents, and other resources online.

SPEAKER_03 54:12

That should be there forever.

SPEAKER_01 54:14

Forever. Black Wall Street took 10 years to be rebuilt, and like I said before, it was not the same as it had been. And there's only one original building left standing, and that is Vernon AME Church.

SPEAKER_03 54:30

And that community could have com it was a competition for amazing gain. That they would have just been completely thriving. That whole area would have been just amazing, and they would have been imagine where they would be now.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

Well, it was a like Landon said last week, the Rosewood community probably would have been just fine through the depression. This one would have too.

SPEAKER_03 54:56

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

Completely because these communities thrived off each other. They weren't trying to one up in uh, you know, each other. They weren't trying to be better than the other, they worked together to thrive as a community. So they would have made it through these difficult times that were you know set in the future.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

Why can't we get more of that? Yeah, just like we saw in the movie, though, like Rosewood, like the the black mother, the one that ends up um Sarah Carrier. Yeah, she ends up dying and everything.

SPEAKER_01 55:32

She died in a standoff. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 55:34

Yeah, but she still had respect enough to not tell that the light the white woman was lying.

SPEAKER_01 55:42

The white woman was cheating.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

Even though she was scared, but she had respect because she was like, What would happen to her?

SPEAKER_01 55:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

If I told that she was cheating.

SPEAKER_01 55:52

And it still happened to her.

SPEAKER_02 55:53

The fear itself really.

Aftermath, Silence, And Reparations

SPEAKER_01 55:55

No matter, I mean, she tried to be discreet and it still backfired, and she still died.

SPEAKER_03 56:00

And she's standing on the porch and she's like, Some of y'all, I helped raise your kids.

SPEAKER_01 56:04

Help raise your kids.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

And she's like, Y'all all know this white woman was cheating. She's being a floozy. Yeah. Yeah. And she slept with a white. She was a harlot. A harlot. That white woman was probably too scared to sleep with a black man. Let's be honest. Back then, like you're a lot of people a lot of white woman women did sleep with black men.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

And vice versa. Yeah. And vice versa.

SPEAKER_02 56:29

Vice versa. But also there was the white women that were too scared that got beat by their race racist husbands, you know. They're too scared to sleep with a black man. So they would cheat on them because they got beat and they didn't feel love. And they would cheat on them with a white man.

SPEAKER_01 56:47

And it's also just an actual occurrence are reoccurring thing through time. You know, a lot of people are unfaithful. And unfortunately, during this time period and throughout time, they could blame another race to make them look like they were accosted by somebody, yeah. Or to make them not be held accountable for the trans aggression.

SPEAKER_03 57:17

I can get away with this if I say it's a black man that did it. Shit. Oh. Garbage ass people, I swear to God.

SPEAKER_01 57:24

So that concludes the coverage of the Tulsa Massacre or the Massacre of Black Wall Street. There's a few different names. The Tulsa Race War is it's also called that.

SPEAKER_03 57:37

And all this history should live on forever.

SPEAKER_01 57:40

Because that is and it should be taught. So I'm gonna say this inseparably, so we don't repeat it because history right now is trying to repeat itself in a different aspect, but it's still trying to there's there's still it's it's so much.

SPEAKER_02 57:56

It's it definitely should be taught because I was never taught this in school.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

I wasn't either I never learned and now I've told y'all things that I was taught that wasn't taught to you guys because I did have a good history teacher, but I knew nothing about Rosewood, I knew nothing about Black Wall Street. You know, there's a lot of things out there that we weren't taught.

SPEAKER_03 58:15

Yeah, there's a lot of shit. I didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 58:18

I wasn't taught that Christopher Columbus was a piece of shit, you know, or Andrew Jackson.

SPEAKER_02 58:23

I wasn't even taught about the Holocaust in uh regular private school. I was taught about the Holocaust in uh public school and heart to heart.

SPEAKER_01 58:31

Which is fucked up because all everybody should be taught about the Holocaust.

SPEAKER_03 58:36

All that just doesn't need to fucking exist. So Lindsay, I just I I'm done with all this bullshit. Fucking done, dude. Keep sharing all the knowledge and keep it really at least once a month. Just plug it a little bit, you know?

SPEAKER_01 58:54

And I already have some cases saved for next year's Black History Month because we're gonna keep plugging this. We're never gonna stop talking about it. It's unfair, it's terrible. I'm ashamed of it being a person in the Caucasian category. I don't look Caucasian, but I am we're not ashamed of our heritage.

SPEAKER_03 59:15

I mean, we are who we are. No, we are.

SPEAKER_01 59:16

I am ashamed of the heritage, but I am we are who we are. We would not be those people if we had been born in a different time period.

SPEAKER_03 59:25

No, but um, thank you though, Lindsay, for sharing everything, and we're gonna keep it going. I mean, I really love sharing the knowledge. I hate hearing your fucking story, but at the same time, I gotta say thank you a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

And I think what you mean by not being a shame of our heritage, um we're we don't really want to be classified in that type of category.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:03

No, I don't want to live in shame because of the color of my skin.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:06

But also, we don't want to live in shame because our ancestors did something, even though at the same time, I am ashamed that that happened. I hate that that happened. Yeah, there's no. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:16

We go based on if you're a cool person and and and we don't see that you're a piece of shit. Yeah, you can't control what your ancestors did.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:23

No, not at all. No, not at all. I I a hundred percent agree with that. But at the same time, we need to make sure that this does not happen again. And we we have the knowledge, and we need to share the knowledge and make sure that we can do whatever we can to prevent anything like this happening.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:44

Oh, yeah. Share all the knowledge and you know, just keep it in rotation, you know, share it with everybody. Be proud of who you are, no matter who you are, no matter what color you are, be proud of who you are and be good people. That's what I'm pulling. Boiling down to it. Doesn't matter what my ancestors did, which I mean, it's a whole technical conversation, but there's nothing to justify because it all boils down to yourself, if that makes sense. So I have a band to play.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:08

We wouldn't be in that, we wouldn't be in that mob. We wouldn't be in that category.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:12

Yeah, we don't need we don't need to dispel any of it. We know we're better people, so we don't fucking need to even fucking justify who we are. We're good people. That's all it boils down to. I have a band to play though.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:21

Yay! What are you gonna play for us?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:23

I have some amazing music that I wanna play.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:27

Yeah.

Why This History Must Be Taught

Music Feature: Septarian “Threshold”

SPEAKER_03 1:01:28

So this band is Septarian, and the song is called Threshold, and it was brought to me by Megan, the singer from Alabama. So you guys are gonna fucking love this. Well, Lindsay's gonna definitely love this. Alabama! Alabama is gonna fucking meddle it up, dude. It's gonna be so good, I can't wait for it. Oh my god, Lindsay. Holy shit. What a journey. That was a whole song journey.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:39

That was like tool.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:40

That was like a whole journey. Just to wrap everything up and just you know, metal can be a perspective too, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:49

And to put to put all that together and that emotion is what we really live by. Like I I I relax to that. I don't know how how do you relax to that? I do. I do too. But it's culturalistic too, right? I mean they're they're grasping everything that was uh written in heavy music.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:10

They're from Alabama.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:11

They're from well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:12

Fucking crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:13

You love it?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:14

Good for you guys. Yeah. Alabama fucking death metal.

Credits, Links, And Sign-Off

SPEAKER_03 1:10:18

Yeah, thank you for sending that. I love it. I love it. It's a journey. And um putting all that together and just being able to grasp that. I mean, of course we love the heavy music. We love all music. Thank you so much for creating such an amazing jam, dude. That was really good.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:35

So on their Instagram, they are, like I said, from Alabama. The lead singer is Megan H. And then Nick T and Joshua C are the guitarists, and John M is on the face, and Kenneth G is on the drum.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:48

Ooh, Kennedy G on the drum.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:49

Kenny G on the drum. Now, real quick, we're just gonna uh plug in our plug. So uh our main website is drinkabout something at the site. On Instagram, we are drinkabout something on uh Gmail, we are drinkaboutsomething at gmail.com on TikTok we are drinkabout somethingpod or underscore Lindsay on TikTok. Where we do live once a week.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:18

Yeah, for sure. You know, if you're on YouTube or whatever, just type in Lindsay J and E S E Y and you will find us it's very easy. Thank you so much, Landon. Thank you for being part of this. You know, it was just it was amazing, and everything that you do and you be part of.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:35

Thank you, thank you. Yeah, thank you guys for letting me be on the podcast. It's very cool. Yeah. And all these stories that I've never heard before.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:42

Yeah, Lindsay, you really do break me so much all the time. And we gotta let you go. We're gonna see you guys next time. We love you so much. And uh, Landon, you get to say it this time. Bye! Bye.