Pickle Juice, Imposter Syndrome, And Infinite Worth - with Mark Brower

We trade the myth of looking like a finisher for the reality of becoming one, moving from fixed labels to growth identities that can bear discomfort and multiply value. We get honest about fear, faith, and the choice to be content yet unsatisfied while keeping systems simple.

• aid station metaphor for grit and endurance
• you can’t predict finishers by appearances
• stubbornness, iteration and learning in public
• fixed identity traps vs growth identity shifts
• fears of wasted potential and fading peak
• parable of the talents as abundance lens
• run toward fear and reframe as excitement
• radical honesty removes shame and speeds growth
• content but not satisfied as a daily mantra
• simplicity principle for systems and decisions

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And don't forget to subscribe and leave a review so you never miss out on future insights and strategies and tactics

visit pmsuccess.com for more value packed property management related information or to hire Tony as your property management coach.

Transcript

Welcome And Aid Station Metaphor

Tony Cline 0:00

Welcome to the Property Management Success Podcast, where we interview leaders in the industry to uncover the secrets to profitability, efficiency, and achieving true freedom, whether it's your time, money, or lifestyle. I'm your host, Tony Klein, and I'm here to help you build a wildly successful property management business. Let's get to it. Welcome back to another episode of the Property Management Success podcast on the Property Management Aid Station here with Mark Brouwer. Mark, welcome back. Good to see you again. It's been a minute. Woo-hoo! And it's been exactly a minute, I think. Let's go!

Mark Brower 0:37

Yeah. You're looking good out there. I'm talking directly to the runner that just came into the aid station. Man, you're looking so great. You're doing great. Your hydration looks good. How are you feeling? What did they say back to us? Uh, I'm doing it. You're doing it. Hey, you know what? Let's get a little, let's pour a little ice water on your head. You know what else do you need? You need something salty? You good?

Tony Cline 0:59

I think, you know what's funny is I used to think when people would line up at the start line of a race that I would be able to pick out who was going to do well and who wasn't. And then I realized that I really can't tell who's got grit and determination and who's going to finish and who's not. And after watching them for a little while, then you start picking up on who has what gear, who's showing up with a bladder full of water when the first aid station is only six miles away. And like you can start to kind of gauge maybe who has more experience, but you can't determine who's going to finish by looking at people. You can't determine who's got the grit, the heart, and just that determination of I showed up and I ain't quit until I'm done.

Stubbornness And First Ultra Lessons

Mark Brower 1:47

Stubborn. Man, I remember the very first Ultra that I ever ran was a 50 kilometer race in Flagstaff, Arizona. And I remember they launched the 100 milers out first before us. So all the hundred milers went, and then like I don't know, 20, 30 minutes later, the 50k people started. This is my first ultra ever. We're going up 7,000 feet elevation. We're running up in the pine trees, and we're going up on the side of this, you know, volcano that's snows on at Flagstaff, the only ski resort up there. Anyway, um, and I come I come up on this dude, and he is your quintessential middle-aged beerbelly, you know, just like, what is this guy doing? Not the specimen of a specimen of health that you would think is running a hundred mile race. And I I kind of was I was curious. I was like, I was like, hey man, you you're doing the hundred miles. He's like, Yeah. I'm like, hey, um, well, rock on, dude. Like, it's fantastic. Like, how like like how do you how did you get into this? And he's like, I'm just really stubborn.

Tony Cline 2:49

Yeah, I I I feel like that. I feel that in my soul. It's you are so stubborn, Tony. I tell people, you know, I am not fast. I just have learned to suffer really well. I'm just willing to be in the moment and just grid it out and be stubborn until I achieve what I set out to achieve.

Mark Brower 3:11

Part of your identity. We just in our last episode talked about habits, and if you can you can connect your habits to your identity, it's a really powerful lever to make sure that you do that that thing.

Tony Cline 3:22

I was thinking about that after that last podcast that we recorded. I was curious what makes people actually change their identity and what keeps people stuck in the identity that doesn't serve them.

Mark Brower 3:35

That is fascinating. That is a really fascinating question. Did your brain come up with an answer?

Tony Cline 3:41

Well, we we talked a little bit about last time we talked about you know who you surround yourself with makes a difference. Uh I I can't remember when, but me, you, Pablo, we were we were either having a chat or a conversation, I can't remember. And was basically, you know, I was thinking back if if my mom said, Well, Mark, Pablo, and you know, those guys are gonna jump off a bridge, would you jump off a bridge too? And I'm like, probably, that's what we do. That's our that's our people.

Mark Brower 4:11

It's right like a bungee cord attached to us or something.

Tony Cline 4:15

Yeah. So I was just thinking, like, it definitely makes a difference of who you're surrounding yourself with, the mentality of the people. Are they gross-minded? Are they fixed-minded? You know, having having the the mindset that this is the worst I'll ever be, and tomorrow I will be better, and the day after that I will be better. Or I'm afraid to put myself out there because I reached some level of success, and now people see me as achieving that level of success. I can't break that identity, and so it keeps me frozen at this level because if I try to do something new, I'm probably not going to be good at it because I don't have the reps yet. I would have to step out of my comfort zone, I would have to be somebody different to do something different, and it's safer for me to hide behind this identity that's already created. And I think that those are the two directions that people are faced with.

Mark Brower 5:12

Summarize that with fewer words. Say it again.

Tony Cline 5:14

Well, you can either be fixed mindset saying I've achieved some level of success, and this is it. This is this is it. I'm capped. Or and so I don't want to try something more because I will fail. And if I'm failing, then people won't see me as being good anymore.

Mark Brower 5:36

That's so so intolerable for me to hear you say those words. Go ahead. What's the next that was the better one? Well, you told me to say it with fewer words, I forgot that part. No, no, no, no, yeah, no, that was good. That was good. It was just painful to hear again. Go ahead. Second one.

Tony Cline 5:47

So the other part is I showed up, I stumbled my way to this point, I did enough reps that I was able to get it right, because it's not just the repetitions, but it's the iterations. You know, we're not gonna do 20 things poorly in a row, we're gonna do 20 things and iterate and make each one of the times I do it just a little bit better and a little bit better. And so when I live and and try to do something new, I always feel like I'm living with imposter syndrome because I'm always pushing how can I do a little bit better? How can I do something I've not done yet? How can I stretch and grow? So that's the growth mindset of this is the worst I'll ever be.

Mark Brower 6:33

Okay.

Tony Cline 6:33

Today. I may have worse days because I'm not performing well.

Mark Brower 6:38

So that's part of your identity.

Tony Cline 6:40

Yes.

Mark Brower 6:41

Like how core to your identity is what you just described?

Tony Cline 6:47

I think I think people, if you there's books out there that talk about those two mindsets, the fixed mindset or the growth mindset. And I think we all have a little bit of a combination. I don't think it's a light switch, I think it's a pendulum. But for it depends on which which part of our life we're talking about.

Mark Brower 7:04

Okay, but for you, like is that is that deeply part of your identity, this growth mindset?

Searching For Limits And Health Scares

Tony Cline 7:10

I think it is. One of the things I learned early on when I was really sick and I didn't know if I was gonna make it, and I started getting a little bit better. I started searching for my limits. And the harder it's I search, the harder they are to find. And it's just become I know one day I will find it. We we got pretty close with the AFib and the you know, the cardioversion and maybe having to do the ablation and all of this stuff. But even with that, I'm I'm not ready to say I've peaked yet.

Mark Brower 7:43

What what what is that? Like, what are you trying to prove to the world? Is this healthy, Tony? Like trying to prove something to the world. Why why attach your identity to constantly pushing and moving and and striving and reaching and and daring and dreaming? Why?

Fears Of Wasted Potential

Tony Cline 8:00

I don't know that. That is a really good question. And when I did this this presentation uh a while back, I told people at the end of the presentation, I said, I want to share with you my two biggest fears. My two biggest fears, obviously, after making sure my family's taken care of and that sort of thing, but my two biggest fears is number one, I will die with unrealized potential, meaning I could have done more, I could have been better, I could have contributed to others more, I could have helped others grow in ways that they needed to grow to be who they could become so that they could have a bigger impact. So the first one is I would die with unrealized potential. And the second one is that I will wake up one day and realize that my best days are behind me. And those two things drive me. I don't know if it's healthy or not healthy, but those two things definitely have become of a part of who I am. And the more you try to find your limits, the more you realize you're capable of so much more. And that momentum just continues to carry you forward. So I'm still on a search to find my limits.

Mark Brower 9:09

It's a beautiful thing. My biggest fear is that someday I'll stand before God, open my hand up, and there will be only one talent in it. And for anyone listening that's read the parable of the talents in the Bible, you'll know that that was the foolish and slothful servant. And I think there's a deep wound from my childhood. I'm getting way too deep here.

Parable Of The Talents And Abundance

Tony Cline 9:30

Let's actually share. So this is such an impactful story from the Bible. Share briefly what we go to the story is.

Run Toward What Scares You

Mark Brower 9:39

So the master had three servants. And to the first he gave five talents, and to the second he gave three, and this to the third he gave one talent. And he went away for a season and he told his servants to, you know, go multiply their talents. And the first one, when the master came back and asked for an accounting, a paraphrasing, you guys can correct me if this is wrong. The first one showed ten talents, and he said, Well done. The second one that was given three showed six talents. And the final servant came and said, Lord, I know that you are a demanding businessman. And I knew how valuable this talent was to you. So I dug a hole and I buried it and kept it safe. And now here it is. I have it for you. And he said, Thou foolish and slothful servant. And he took the one talent from that servant and gave it to he that had produced ten. What is the story here? The story, but there's a lot of takeaways. But I can tell you for sure, I do not want to be the person who opens his hand with one talent and have to try to spin this story about how you're such an amazing God that that I buried what you gave me so I wouldn't lose it. This is the essence of scarcity, fixed mindset versus abundance mindset. We are here on this spinning blue ball, hurtling through space at unbelievable speeds to multiply what we've been given. And I feel a very strong inner desire to do that and to do that in a way that glorifies God, that plays by the rules, and that creates as much value for other people because I've found when I do that, I also feel deeply connected to the world around me, to myself and to God. And I feel really good about the work I'm doing. I know, I know that each of us is infinitely and already infinitely valuable, worthy of love and belonging, infinitely worthy of love. I know I don't need to multiply my talents to be worthy of the applause of man or worthy of acceptance. And so in the last year, specifically, I've tried to move away from performative self-worth measures. Um, but I still deeply fear um standing in front of God someday and not not be able to report that I made the very most out of this life. I want to suck all the marrow out of the bones and I want to create the most good that I can and have the deepest, most satisfying relationships. And I'm not sure that desire is a hundred percent pure and from a from a good place. I think there's there's fear there, but that's what I'm trying to shift next is to move from a a fear-based performative self-worth locus of creation to an abundance, uh charity, full love, already having arrived at infinite worth, place of creation, and that's a different topic.

Tony Cline 12:48

Okay, so what is what does that look like? So, what's the takeaway for for our listener for both of the things that we just shared? Because I think what we shared showed a lot of who we are on the inside and what drives us. And I'm sure that there's listeners that either identify with one or both of those identities.

Mark Brower 13:13

Okay, I have a quick thought. Yep. Sorry, jump in, I don't want to lose it. I had a I had a call with a life coach today, one of uh one of my support group that I have that I've established around me that's helping me in this journey. And I told the life coach that I feel at this point in my life like I'm running towards things that scare me. Like I'm I'm like I'm like pursuing with enthusiasm, with excitement the things that scare me. And he said, you know, that's really interesting, Mark. Mel, he's reading Mel Robbins' book right now. Maybe it's it's the book Let Them. And he said, Mel Robbins says that fear and excitement are the same thing on opposite poles. And I am just, I don't know why, Tony, but I've never fully been in this place before where I am purposely and enthusiastically moving toward anything that scares the crap out of me. And it is so rewarding. I've never been more willing to make a fool of myself in my life. You at the MX Summit? Did you see me out in the rodeo grounds spinning on the bat?

Tony Cline 14:30

No, I I didn't get to see. I heard about it.

Radical Honesty And “Eight Miling”

Mark Brower 14:33

So it's it's such a beautiful, liberating place. Once we decide that we're a hundred percent okay being a fool and looking like a fool, then the whole world opens up. Relationships open up, learning opens up, adventure opens up. My son calls this eight miling yourself. You mean you know the uh the the singer-rapper Eminem?

Tony Cline 14:57

Oh yeah. I know I know where you're leading. I'm I'm just letting you know.

Content But Not Satisfied

Mark Brower 15:01

What did he do? What did he do? When he rapped, when he was in a rap battle, he eviscerated himself to the point of absoluteness. Like there was nothing left that his opponent could say that he hadn't already said about himself. This is the most powerful place I can imagine coming from. The absolute, total, raw, brutal honesty about everything you're ashamed of in your life spoken from your mouth first. Where else could anybody go? And uh it's it's it's fascinating. I was up in Idaho. I flew up Sunday night, came back Monday, Monday afternoon. Unfortunately, my son tore his labrum at jujitsu, first night he ever went. So sad. He was so excited to go. And he's an amateur bodybuilder. This is a massive setback for this guy. And uh I went up there to support him. And I had a chance to actually drive back to the airport with one of his roommates who was flying back down to Arizona. And this this kid who had just met my son Dane a couple months prior, and I'm gonna get I'm gonna get emotional here, said, you know, I really, I really admire your son. He's the most honest person I've ever met. I was like, what? This is like proud papa moment. This is amazing, you know. Say more. And he said, and he said, it's because of you, because you never lied to him growing up. And and so what my oldest son does is he like he almost has no, he has no shame, no detectable shame. And he will candidly and frankly and openly share what most people would never share about themselves as a matter-of-fact expression of this is who I am, this is where I'm at. And nobody has any leverage over that position. You can't possibly demean or criticize or manipulate someone that just eight miled themselves. Rant over. Back to you, tell me.

Tony Cline 16:58

I feel like you did that in the last episode where you admitted that you were a sock, sock, shoe, shoe guy. Like, I mean, come on. Like, how how much lower can can a guy go than being a sock, sock, shoe, shoe? It just doesn't make any sense. Uh, I believe I believe in that. I believe in what uh what you're saying about accepting who we are. I I say that uh we should accept who we are and we should be content. One of my biggest mantras when I'm trying to achieve something or I'm trying to become somebody is to be content but not satisfied. Meaning, and this goes back to the story we talked about last time with Lindsay Vaughn. She was content. She's content where she's at. She's content with the effort she put in, she's content with who she became through that journey. I know in her mind she's not satisfied. I know she's thinking all I gotta do is repair the ACL on this leg, and then I gotta go and get the three surgeries to repair the bro the broken bone and I'll be back to achieve more. Maybe not at the Olympics, but she will put herself back out there, and I think that it is be realistic with where you're starting, being content with your progress you've made. That's a lot about the gap in the gain that we've talked about in previous podcasts, but then it's the strive to become more.

Mark Brower 18:29

Beautifully said. Alright, we're gonna wrap this one. Alright. Man, that seems short. It is short. It's okay. I'm the tall one. You're the short one. Sometimes we sometimes we too tall.

Simplicity And What’s Next

Tony Cline 18:43

That's true. You know what I what I say in our coaching business is make things as simple as possible, but no simpler. Meaning if you took something away, you'd break it. But if you added one more thing and it doesn't drastically improve the outcome, don't do it.

Mark Brower 18:59

Bro, we should talk about Elon Musk's five-step engineering process. Have we covered this yet? We did a long time ago. A long time ago. It is so beautiful.

Tony Cline 19:08

You want to cover it now or you want to cover it in the next episode? Next episode, stay tuned. Keep them coming back. Did we we didn't come up with our snack yet, right?

Mark Brower 19:17

Bro, I mean, pickle juice and pickle flavored pretzel sticks might sound nasty to most of our listeners, but that's because you're not on the trail yet. This is Mother's Milk on the trail. The pickle juice, like I'm telling you, Tony is not leading you astray here. Pickle juice on the trail can hydrate. I it I don't know, it's just a magic elixir for sure.

Tony Cline 19:41

Speaking of magical elixir, I am curious. I have not seen, are we boycotting liquid death at this point because they have not sponsored you yet? What is the deal? Yes.

Mark Brower 19:52

This is this like protest behavior. I know I haven't cracked open a liquid death for a minute.

Tony Cline 19:57

It's been a minute.

Mark Brower 19:58

All right, let's get that stocked up. All right, get on out of here, guys. All right, you got this. We'll see you at the next aid station. You're doing great. You are doing fantastic. Go, go, go run from an abundance of acceptance and love, knowing your infinite worth and you've already arrived at that place of being uh deserving of love and belonging.

Tony Cline 20:23

Thanks for tuning in to the Property Management Success Podcast. We'll be back with another value packed episode to help you level up your property management game. If you've got something valuable out of today's episode, please share it with a friend or colleague. And don't forget to subscribe and leave a review so you never miss out on future insights and strategies and tactics. Until next time, here's your success.