"Beyond the Game": The RealSportsDoc Podcast

Balancing the Scales: Judge Jennifer Schloegel's Journey to Fairness and Justice

• Dr. Brandon L. Hardin • Season 1 • Episode 5

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What does it take to balance the demanding roles of a Chancery Court judge, mother, and friend? Judge Jennifer Schloegel joins us to share her journey from law practice to the bench, where she handles complex family, property, and business disputes with skill and wisdom honed over 14 years. Listen as she talks about starting her day with exercise and preparation, ensuring she's ready for the courtroom's challenges. Judge Schloegel also candidly reveals how she navigates the intimidating atmosphere of the courtroom, manages high-profile cases, and maintains compassion and fairness, all while contemplating a run for the Court of Appeals.

Join the conversation as Judge Schloegel offers insights into her judicial philosophy, emphasizing a thoughtful balance between statutory law, precedent, and justice. Discover how she continues to learn and grow in her role, facing the unique challenges of being a public figure. We also remind our listeners of the importance of early voting and staying informed. Check out JenniferSchloegel.com for more information, and be sure to participate in the upcoming election. This episode is a testament to Judge Schloegel's commitment to fairness and the integrity of the judicial process.

Thank you for tuning in to "Beyond the Game"! We hope you found valuable insights into the world of sports medicine and the importance of health and wellness in athletics. Remember, whether you're an athlete, a parent, or a sports enthusiast, this podcast is designed for you.

Stay connected with us! Subscribe to the podcast, share it with your friends, and don't forget to send in your questions and topics you'd like us to explore in future episodes.

Join us next time as we deliver sports-related topics right to your doorstep. Let’s continue this journey together—beyond the game!

For more resources and to connect with Dr. Brandon Hardin, visit TheRealSportsDoc.com or HardinSportsMed.com to learn more.

Keep pushing your limits, and see you next time!

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Hey everybody, dr Har, welcome to Beyond the Game podcast. I have an amazing friend of mine on here today that you should hear from. This is Judge Jennifer Schlogel, and she is going to give us kind of an insight on what day-to-day looks like as a judge, as a mom and as a friend. So, hey, judge, how are you today?

Judge Schloegel:

Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Yeah, absolutely so. I wanted to start with kind of like your daily life. What does it look like, or what does a typical day look like for you, both inside and outside the courtroom?

Judge Schloegel:

Well, every day I try to get up and do a little exercise I should say every week because it doesn't always happen every day, but I like to be able to exercise and have some personal time in the morning and start out after that with emails and getting my cases together. So by the time I get to the courtroom I really know what the cases are going to look like for the day, what the docket's going to look like, and I talk to my staff and we sort of get ahead of the game that's what we try to do, right?

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

yeah, so I've seen you do that personally, which I think is cool. You know, I was talking to a surgeon the other day and she does something similar, where she goes over the case before she goes into the case, right, right. So I appreciate that, especially because then you know what's ahead of you, you're not going in blind to something that you know could change somebody's life, right right.

Judge Schloegel:

Right. There's a lot of things that that is useful for you to know ahead of time as a judge. There's also a lot of procedural technicalities that lawyers have to follow in the courtroom, and so just even the most perfect lawyer doesn't always get this right, so we're always having to go in and check those things. But once we get all that together and have a pretty good idea of what's going on, we start calling the docket and deal with the cases for the day.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Gotcha. So how did you know you wanted to be a judge? You obviously were a lawyer first.

Judge Schloegel:

I was a lawyer. I went to Ole Miss to law school and Emory in Atlanta as well to law school, and so I practiced in Atlanta. When I first got out, I was a member of the Georgia Bar and then I began practicing in Mississippi after that. Okay, so I have five children. So I actually stayed at home, um, for 10 years with my five children and and really I didn't think I was going to go back to practicing law. But I did eventually and I had no idea that I would ever be a judge.

Judge Schloegel:

So, that was a kind of a surprise in my life.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

And how long have you been a judge? 14 years 14 years as a Chancery Court judge.

Judge Schloegel:

As a Chancery Court, judge as a Chancery.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Court judge, and that is also a voted on position.

Judge Schloegel:

Yes, so I'm a Chancery Court judge for Harrison, hancock and Stone counties those three counties and it's a four year term. So I've been elected four times and I'm halfway through my fourth term.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Halfway through your fourth term.

Judge Schloegel:

Yes.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

So in each one of those terms, let's say, have things changed over time, not just your position as a judge or your position on the bench, but like your cases, obviously things evolve. Have your judgments changed? Like, let's say, you had a case you know eight years ago. Would you rule that same way on today's case?

Judge Schloegel:

That's a good question. I don't know that I've ever gone back and looked to see if I would feel differently. I hope that over time I gained skill and wisdom and learned a lot. I feel like that I did, and so that's. I'm curious to know that question. Sometimes I get cases especially when they're family cases that I might've ruled on, say like in 2012 or 2014. And now I have it again. It's come back 10 years later like old contempt or something else has gone on in the case, and so I've never found myself though questioning well, why did I do that back then? I never have had that as an issue.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Yeah, yeah, well, I think that's important as a judge. Important as a judge, I mean, you're obviously making very important decisions for people, and lawyers have those decisions set in front of them via their client, but you're the one that they come to right for really guidance and structure and policy and procedure, like you said before.

Judge Schloegel:

Right, right, well they wouldn't be in court if they could just solve the problem very easily right so they're there because it's something that cannot be resolved and and it is, and these are important matters, whether it's a person's land or their you know family estate, someone's died, or their children, property, property business maybe, or contract dispute, I mean whatever a person is in court for it's important to them and I do understand that the judge you have to keep in mind like in my court I'm the jury and the judge. So, just like you see on TV, a jury doesn't necessarily get all the evidence because it's not all presented to the jury. So sometimes that happens to me as a judge it's not all presented to me or there's things that are left out or just not covered very well. So we're aware of that, that we may not have all the information, but we're doing our best to get as much information as we have, as we can, so that we can make a sound decision.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Nice. So you kind of just described what Chancery Court looks like, and you've done that for 14 years now. So how do you think that's going to shape your decisions as an appellate judge?

Judge Schloegel:

Right. So I'm running for the court of appeals, which is a court in Jackson that hears all the appeals. So it's one state court but the state is divided into five districts and each district gets to vote two judges on that court. So there's 10 judges on the court of appeals altogether and each district gets two, like I said. So there's 10 judges on the Court of Appeals altogether and each district gets two, like I said. So I'm running for one of those spots in our district and the Southern District in Mississippi. There's 11 counties that are a part of this district that I'm running in for Court of Appeals. So the importance that my experience as a judge, as a chancery judge 33 of them have been appealed and I have been upheld by the Court of Appeals and Supreme Court 32 of those 33 times.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

That speaks volumes. I would say that is a proven track record for you as a judge.

Judge Schloegel:

Yes, it is, and I feel very good about that and I'm very proud of that record. But it just Shows you I do understand legal precedent what the law is, how to write it, how to address that and how to run a trial.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Right. So let me ask you this and how many cases from each court goes to the appellate courts?

Judge Schloegel:

So you have chancery court, you have civil, you have Right, so we have two trial courts in Mississippi the chancery courts and the circuit courts. Okay, there's lower courts below Mississippi the chancery courts and the circuit courts.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Okay.

Judge Schloegel:

There's lower courts below them, like county and justice, so those cases justice court, county court. When they're appealed they go to either the circuit or chancery. So like I have appeals even now, so you've seen them before. I have. I have appeals from county court and justice court.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Okay.

Judge Schloegel:

But then when you appeal from chancery and circuit they go to the court of appeals and the Supreme Court. But the court of appeals here is about 80% of all the trial court appeals in the state.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

So you'd have to be a judge, obviously, in order to rule on an appeal in the lower court system and in chancery and well, you don't have.

Judge Schloegel:

I mean you. There are people that are on that are judges on the court of appeals that were not trial judges first and they are on there now. But I think it's the general consensus, especially among the judges, the trial court judges, that we would like to have other trial court judges eventually move up to the court of appeals, because then we know that we have that experience as a lower court trial judge.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Those are the cases that are getting appealed well, because you're obviously then familiar with the process yes, very much so so skill and wisdom, like you were saying before, you know you take that into account going to the court of appeals because you've had cases very similar to those that you'd be seeing as an appellate judge.

Judge Schloegel:

Yes, that's right. So a lawyer's I mean you may have a lawyer that has been to trial a lot, that has been in the courtroom a lot, and that's great and nothing against that at all room a lot, and that's great and nothing against that at all. But a lawyer's job and role is very different from a judge's job and role and their perspectives are different.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

So a lawyer, and you've been both.

Judge Schloegel:

I've been both, and a lawyer is looking out for the best interest of his client and advocating for his or her client, which is what they should be doing, and a judge is, on the other hand, trying to make the best decision, the right decision, according to the law and the facts in front of them. So it's a much bigger perspective and a bigger picture and a different role.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Right, right, I understand. So background and experience. Can we talk a little bit about your experience as a Chancery Court judge and how you think that that's prepared you for the Court of Appeals? Outside of skill and wisdom from the court cases you've seen in the last 14 years, what makes you the best candidate for the Court of Appeals?

Judge Schloegel:

Well, of course, as a Chancery Court judge, I have seen a very wide area of the law, broad area. I have heard cases that have been I mean public corruption, casino litigation, banking litigation, family disputes, business partnership disputes, contract disputes, land issues, estate issues. I mean just very wide areas, and so that has prepared me. Those are very much the type of cases that are on appeal. Um, you have in 2023, 30% of the appeals were direct criminal appeals.

Judge Schloegel:

So, 30% of the overall appeals were direct criminal appeals. The rest of that so it'd be 70% was civil appeals, like what I just described. Could be family matters, could be business matters, might be a personal injury, civil litigation, that kind of thing. So that makes up 70%. So my experience is going to be in the civil arena and that is going to help bring balance to the Court of Appeals, because we do have a lot of judges on there with a very heavy, extensive criminal trial background and so this brings the civil to it.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Right. So checks and balances within the court of appeals? Yes, absolutely.

Judge Schloegel:

Right, because you have 10 judges that are all trying to make a decision on a case and it's helpful when we can have input from judges who have practiced or been judges before in different areas of the law.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Yes, Gotcha Understood. So what is your judicial philosophy and how do you see that influencing your decisions as a judge today and as an elected appellate court judge?

Judge Schloegel:

Well, my judicial philosophy is to, first and foremost, I'm looking to the law. And what does the law say? What does it provide? What is public policy in addition to that, in this situation of the case that I'm facing, it sounds like the law would be very clear and in black and white, but it's not always that way and it has to be interpreted.

Judge Schloegel:

So you have statutory law, you have law coming from cases, precedent, legal precedent, you have rules of procedure and evidence and things like that as well. So there's a lot of moving parts. So, first and foremost, I would be looking at the law seeking to find the answer. First and foremost, I would be looking at the law seeking to find the answer, but putting together all of the aspects of the case, thinking about how the decision would affect the law as a whole, not just that particular case, and how it would affect other people, and then I would be looking to do equity where equity was needed and certainly to do justice. So I think you know, overall, my philosophy of the law is that it should be fair within the meaning of the law that is provided.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Right. Well, you just nailed two of my next two questions the role of precedent and how you view the importance of that. Obviously, you just explained that, and your judicial independence as well.

Judge Schloegel:

So let me say this. I mean precedent is obviously very important to me and for me to be affirmed or upheld on appeal 32 or 33 times, I am relying upon legal precedent to make those decisions. So that shows you the weight that I give to legal precedent, because then I would not be upheld that many times on appeal.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Right, and what that means is sort of like what has been done before correct, correct.

Judge Schloegel:

What has been done before in cases. That's one part of the law and then the other part would be statutory. So what are the actual statutes on the books that the legislature has passed? And then there are also rules that are promulgated by the Supreme Court.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Right, right, so let's talk a little bit about your role as a mom and as just a layperson. You know, I was talking with somebody the other day about having you on the show and they're like, wow, that's got to be a little bit intimidating. And I know you and I have talked before about one being a female judge, but two being an intimidating person. Obviously we're friends now so I don't consider you intimidating, but you have to realize, right, that some people may think that. Well, one, when they go to court, it's a very intimidating experience. How do you perceive the public's perception of you and how do your children perceive that as a judge?

Judge Schloegel:

That's a good question. Now that my children are older, I think they have a little more understanding of that, and they didn't really when they were younger.

Judge Schloegel:

And that was fine with me, um, because I wanted, uh, to, as far as they're concerned, just be their mom and and do what I needed to do as their mom and as a parent, and um know that I was helping to provide for them by working. And of course, I want to make them proud proud, obviously, of what I'm doing. And now I have two children that are lawyers.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Yes.

Judge Schloegel:

And I have my other three children are successful doing other things and I'm happy for all of them. But I don't think of myself as being intimidating. But, as you said that when you're in the courtroom, people are naturally intimidated by the courtroom and the process the judge, the lawyers, all the people there, and I just try to keep that in mind when I'm there. I have to keep order in the court.

Judge Schloegel:

As a judge, I have to be firm, but I like to be compassionate as well and, of course, always respectful and treat people with dignity, and I do understand that I'm a public servant as a judge and that I'm there to serve not only the people that have the cases, but also the lawyers where they earn their living every day. Yes, so I think all of that's very important.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Have you been scrutinized by the public before? On, let's say a specific case, I remember a case a while back where you know, obviously, like you just said, you're in front of all kinds of different people, different cases, every day. You know what happens when your name shows up in the news. Do you ever get intimidated or scrutinized by the public?

Judge Schloegel:

Well, I have been in some high profile cases and I have been reported on in the news a few times, several times, just like anything. I think you know you have the frustration that well, the whole story is not out there. But again, I mean, they can't necessarily write the whole story in just a small newspaper article and I get that Right right.

Judge Schloegel:

So that's you know part of what goes on, or your feelings there. I just I don't know. I think I more or less just separate myself from it and I'm reading it like I'm reading about anybody else. Sure, and that, and that helps me just just to kind of separate myself from it, because at the end of the day, I got to go back in there and do my job, regardless of how it's reported.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

So, talking about that, have you run into any which I'm sure you have, but I'm going to ask anyway any unexpected challenges as a judge?

Judge Schloegel:

Well, some of my cases certainly have challenged me in many ways and I had one very high profile case that involved the Department of Marine Resources and the State Auditor's Office and the newspaper the Sun-Herald, and there was really all kinds of conflict going on between all three of these agencies and unbeknownst to me, and they all ended up in my courtroom.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Whoa.

Judge Schloegel:

And so.

Judge Schloegel:

I just found myself in the middle and I, you know, did the best I could, but it um, but it did require me to be firm and I had to hold people in contempt and I had to sanction other people and and very often, as a judge, you're making rulings that, uh, others don't like. I mean, somebody is going to win, somebody's going to lose, and you know that that people are going to leave the courtroom being unhappy. Maybe everyone leaves unhappy to some extent, because your job is not necessarily to make everyone happy, but it's to do justice within the meaning of the law right, right right and interpret the law fairly.

Judge Schloegel:

Yes, that's right, and so it works out for some people and not for others.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Yeah, absolutely so. Let's talk about life beyond the game, right, because that's what the podcast is of being a judge. What does mentorship look like to you, and do you engage in any mentorship or teaching outside of the courtroom?

Judge Schloegel:

Well, I do have students that come to the courtroom and they shadow me and they observe law students, high school students, college students. I've had this a lot. I used to coach the high school mock trial team. I did that for 11 years and would teach that. So you know, I say, was that outside of the courtroom? I guess it's kind of inside and outside of the courtroom, but other than that I would probably just say that I was involved in my children's schools and with their friends to try to mentor that way.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Sure, yeah, absolutely Obviously. You've done a good job because you have two lawyers as sons now as well.

Judge Schloegel:

I do have two yes, so that's always nice. They're pretty good guys. Yes, they are.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Absolutely. So what does continued learning look like? So what does continued learning look like? I know there were some special times that you've shared with me when you'd go meet with other judges, like in Destin, to get exposure to different cases and kind of talk amongst your colleagues.

Judge Schloegel:

How do you keep learning and growing as a judge and do you have any favorite resources or activities for personal development? Yeah, well, that's kind of two different questions, but like, for example, this week we had the judicial conference at the Golden Nugget in Biloxi, so all the judges from the state were invited. We have classes that are taught to us. So, just like in the medical profession, just like in the accounting profession, other professions you've got every year you have to have so many hours of continuing legal education and so, as a judge, it's continuing judicial education, and so the judicial college in Mississippi puts that on and we go three times a year and to those conferences.

Judge Schloegel:

So we just had a conference this week and it is very useful because not only you're presented with a you know class, but you're also meeting with other judges and so we're talking and we're finding out well how different things are done in each person's court or how they might tackle this problem or that problem. It's it's nice that we can talk with each other about our cases and get some different perspectives, judicial perspectives, ask questions of each other and continue learning. So it's very nice, especially with the older judges or judges that have been doing it for a long time. I remember, when I was a new judge, that they were so generous with their time, you know, to take my calls and my questions and help me just to develop those skills as a judge. So your next question, your second question, was what Again remind me so, just like the activities you do for your own personal development.

Judge Schloegel:

Well, any resources.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

You have to do so.

Judge Schloegel:

Yeah, so those I mean. I just try to stay active as a person in my community. Certainly, when my children were younger, it involved their schools. Now that they're older, not so much that, but just community organizations. And then I like to exercise, I like to go to yoga, I like to do different things that I think are just important to keep my health up, and so social functions, that type of thing. So I think it's just a matter, I think, of lifestyle choices, and it's just like any profession that it's easy to somewhat get consumed, or you can, and then lose your own personal life, so you have to stay on top of both.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Absolutely. Yeah, and I think you do that very well, absolutely.

Judge Schloegel:

I think it's very difficult for lawyers, for the legal profession as a whole, because you're dealing lawyers and judges, because they have to deal with very weighty situations. There's a burden to it, like you said, like you asked me at the beginning. I mean you're going to affect someone's life or someone's business or family.

Judge Schloegel:

Well, a lawyer has that as well, and it's not just the judge, it's the lawyer too, and so it's very important for lawyers and judges to stay on top of their personal lives and their families and giving the right attention to them so they can stay healthy.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Sure, yeah. So the final two questions here. This has been a really great podcast, I'd say. What about advice for aspiring judges? What advice would you give young attorneys who aspire to be judges?

Judge Schloegel:

one day? Well, that's a good question I would like. I said, shifting from the role of an attorney to the role of a judge is just a big. It's a big change and it's very different. And so, but some attorneys, I think, can tell that they're naturally cut out for that and, whether they've considered it or not, if they stop for a minute and think about it, they will know within themselves whether that would be good for them or not. And so I think that it's good, especially if that attorney does have the desire to bring resolution to conflicts, and being a judge is one way to get involved in bringing resolution to things and agreement is one way to get involved in bringing resolution to things and agreement.

Judge Schloegel:

And sometimes attorneys are in a position where they might like to solve the conflict but they can't, just because of the position that they're in. So if they tend to want to be more on the resolution side, it might be good for them to consider being a judge.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Right, right, yeah, that's good advice. And then what about legacy and impact? What legacy do you hope to leave, both as a judge and as an individual, in your position now as a Chancery Court judge?

Judge Schloegel:

Gosh. Well, I hope my legacy would be that I was fair and that I treated people with dignity and respect, as I said, and that I did not judge anyone based upon their last name, their color, their religion, their gender or anything else. Really just that I took the facts as they were presented to me at face value and that I tried to do the right thing, and I would. That's the kind of legacy that I would like to leave, whether as a judge or just as a person, just as someone who lives with integrity and treats people right and well. Even though we might not always agree, I think it's important that you just treat people with respect.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Yes, absolutely, that's beautiful. Yeah, for sure. So you know, I'm kind of the same as a physician, so I teach the sports medicine department for Memorial and it's so fun to get to hear our residents come in and say your patients really love you. Well, it's because I'm fair. I treat them with respect. You know, I think there are just in every profession there are going to be some people who may not be best suited for that job.

Judge Schloegel:

Right.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

But then there are people like you who are, and I would say you've you've definitely led a good last 14 years in the Chancery Court and I think you'd be a great decision for voters in the upcoming election for Court of Appeals. And since a call of action, what would you like to say to your voters if we get this out, so people can hear why you want to be an appellate court judge for this upcoming election?

Judge Schloegel:

Well, to the voters, I would say that I just want to take everything that I have learned for the last 14 years and use it on a higher level to serve more people in the state. So I'd be serving the whole state rather than just my three counties, and so it's really it's a natural progression of my legal career to take what I've learned here and then take it to the next level, and so it's my desire to serve and to serve the public, and this is a way, an opportunity for me to serve a greater number of the people. So I certainly would ask them to consider me. They can look at my website to find out more information about me and and I would appreciate it if they did that and I certainly would ask for their vote.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Absolutely Well. You've got my vote.

Judge Schloegel:

So thank you Absolutely.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

Thanks for coming on the show, Judge, and we really appreciate your time. Guys, remember that early voting and that November 5th is coming up very fast. Do your research. As Judge Schloegel asked, you can go to her website. Judge. What's the website?

Judge Schloegel:

JenniferSloegelcom.

Dr. Brandon Hardin:

JenniferSchloegel. com and find out more information there. We really appreciate you guys tuning in and we'll see you next time.

Judge Schloegel:

Thank you.