The Hollywood Guide
The Hollywood Guide
Episode 2 | Groundswell Productions
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In this episode, which was recorded in November of 2018, Anabel Boyanova and Jordan Mahoney of Groundswell Productions discuss the company's approach to TV/film development, they touch on what they think makes a good script standout, and also give some insight about their daily job duties! Enjoy and please subscribe!
Season 2 of "SMILF" is scheduled to premiere on Showtime on January 20, 2019.
Season 4 of "The Magicians" is scheduled to premiere on Syfy on January 23, 2019.
FX's "Snowfall" has been renewed for a 3rd season, so be on the lookout for a 2019 premiere date.
Follow Courtney on Twitter: @Courtneyj_media
Email: thehollywoodguide@gmail.com
Hey guys, welcome to the Hollywood guide, a podcast designed to provide insight about the inner workings of the TV and film industry in Los Angeles. Each episode we talk to someone currently working and living in LA and find out everything you need to know to navigate the entertainment capital of the world. If you're an amateur writer, actor, director, producer, etc. Then this is definitely the show for you. My name is Courtney, Jonathas and I'm your host. I'm a grad student studying mass communication and actually spent this past summer working in LA, so most of my guests will be people I connected with while there. For today's episode, I actually have two very special guests. Anabel Boyanova and Jordan Mahoney are both members of Groundswell Productions. Groundswell is the Los Angeles based production company behind TV hits such as Showtime's, SMILF, Syfy's The Magicians and FX's Snowfall. They were both such a great help to me when I interned at Groundswell over the summer, so I'm very confident that they'll have some great insight to share with you all guys. Thank you so much for taking the time to join the show today.
AnabelThanks for having us.
Courtneyand how's your day going so far? I know you guys are typically very busy.
AnabelIt's actually been a little bit more quiet since everyone started to take off for the Thanksgiving holidays, so, okay. A little bit, a little bit quieter around here.
CourtneyOh, okay. Makes Sense. What do you, when do you guys take off? Are you guys going out of town for the holiday?
JordanI'm staying in town. I think Jordan cutting back from driving to Phoenix to see the family, which
Anabelwe'll be nice. Oh, okay.
JordanThe one month worth of weather. It's tolerable in Phoenix.
CourtneyAwesome. Awesome. Well, why don't we get started with you guys telling us a little bit about your individual backgrounds.
AnabelUm, so I went to film school down in Orange County. I studied creative producing at Chapman University and I knew I wanted to go into development, specifically for television. So I started out at an agency called a William Morris Endeavor, WME. And I worked there for about a year for two agents. And then at that point I had kind of made enough connections and met enough people to eventually find the opportunity here at Groundswell and I made the jump to Groundswell and have been here ever since.
CourtneyAwesome. How about you Jordan?
JordanUm, I started off in Phoenix. I went to ASU, um, in film and Media Studies and uh, with an emphasis on screenwriting and then rather than moving to LA after graduating, I decided to, to move to New Mexico for a few years cause I had a few, I was born in New Mexico and have some family out there. So I had a few small connections. So I ended up going to Albuquerque and Santa Fe and working and kind of freelance on different TV shows, um, as an art PA and an office PA and even a set dresser on, on an indie movie. And then, um, I want to write and hopefully direct one day. So I kind of realized that you have to come to either Los Angeles or New York. So I moved to LA. I had kind of gotten enough contacts from, from my shows that I was working on in New Mexico and moved out here and then, um, incidentally got a job at the Weinstein Company as my first job, which was definitely a baptism by fire. Obviously everyone kind of knows what happened. Uh, what happened there. Um, so that was, that was a very tumultuous and very characteristically, uh, LA experience. And then I got out of there and now I'm here at Groundswell, which is a wonderful change of pace.
CourtneySo why don't you guys tell us a little bit about what you are doing now in terms of your work with Groundswell?
AnabelSo a big chunk of our work is actively maintaining and keeping up to date on everything for the three shows that we have on air that you've mentioned earlier. Um, it kind of depends what time of year it is and what's going on specifically with each shows. And they all have different schedules. But for example, right now SMILF, um, is gearing up for a potential season three if we do get one. And so we're kind of at the stage where we are reading a lot of writers to figure out who we might want in the writer's room for season three if it happened. So that's been a huge part of our daily work. Uh, over the past weeks we're constantly discussing writers and in touch with Frankie Shaw, the showrunner and the studio and the network. Um, and then on top of that, we have all of the different projects that we're developing that are also in various stages. We have things in develop,ment with AMC and you know, Hulu and FX and various places around town. And again, those are all kind of at different stages. Some are as early as just being an outline and others we have done multiple revisions on draft. So kind of just depends what has come in that week. Um, that's generally our focus. The new draft of the script has come in, that's what we're reading that week and discussing and writing notes on and so on and so forth. And then, um, the third piece of it is kind of just all of the available material, you know, potential projects, uh, things that were reading at all times. It's kind of always going on and writers that we're meeting every day. We all have meetings with writers for either specific projects or just to generally get to know them to potentially work together in the future. So it's kind of a little bit of an amalgam of all of that. Um, and everyday differs just depending on what's the priority at the time.
CourtneyCool. And for those that may not a ton about the TV and film development process, can you guys walk us through how Groundswell usually goes about acquiring projects and producing them?
AnabelAgain, there are many different ways I would say, um, methods through which we acquire projects. We either find a piece of material first, whether that be a book, an article, um, anything like that---that we happen to think would be a great show or a feature. Um, and from there we might go about trying to find a writer for it who could develop a take or finding a studio home for it or then taking it out and pitching it to a network. Or the other part of that is we meet with writers a lot as I just mentioned. And sometimes they will come to us with ideas or writers we have relationships with for a years, you know, that we keep in touch with will come to us and say, hey, I have an idea that I would love to, you know, come pitch to you. So we also hear a lot of ideas and if there's something that we really spark to, we might also come to a project that way.
CourtneyOkay. I know you guys mentioned that you do a lot of reading. How many scripts do you read per week on average and um, what are some things in a script that usually make you more inclined to push for Groundswell to get involved in producing it. Like what makes a script stand out?
JordanIt kind of depends. Some weeks are busier than others with submissions. Sometimes we'll have 10 agents calling a day and they'll submit something and you know, every agent will call and say they've got something really hot and gaining traction and getting a lot of heat so that, that kind of gives you the incentive to, to drop everything and read it. And then sometimes we'll get samples in of writers to be aware of and know in general. Um, and then like Annabel said, we're staffing or looking to potentially staff or an upcoming season of SMILF. So we'll be kind of reading and sniffing out material that, that would fit in that vein or that mold. So yeah, depending on the week, we can read a ton of scripts and we'll always kind of devote our entire weekends to reading. So a lot gets done obviously that way. And then we'll pass off a lot of stuff to interns. Um, you know, as you know, interns will do coverage on scripts that we might not have the time to read or etcetera
AnabelOr that we need like a second pair of eyes on because that always helps. If it's like a slow week, we might only get like 10 things that we split up. If it's a busy week, it can be anywhere to like 20. Right. And we're a company of four.
JordanAnd then when it comes to taking a script that stands out or, or considering it for development, there's kind of a ton of factors that go into that. I mean, first and foremost is kind of just, uh, the quality and the character of the script, and whether it has a kind of unique and distinct voice. Um, because so many scripts might be, you know, on paper, you know, formulaic and, you know, technically competent and you know, they, I think they're kind of passing, but we kind of look for scripts that are like elevated, you know, they kind of lift off the page and have a very unique and distinct style and voice and, and you know, life to them. Um, and then beyond that we have to kind of take into the more, more business minded decisions of what networks can the script live on. Is the material too challenging or is it too niche? Um, is it accessible? Our networks looking for something like this? So is there an audience for it? Right. So there's always kind of a ton of factors that we, that we keep in mind when reading.
CourtneyWhat are some reasons that you guys will typically pass on a script?
AnabelUm, I mean that's hard to answer because there are a variety of reasons and it also entirely depends on the individual script and what we're reading it for. Like Jordan just said, um, we really have to consider so many factors because when you are committing to develop the project, that's a lot of time and effort that's going to be put in. Um, and it's also your branding that script and that project with the stamp of your companies do. You're saying this is something we want to develop and we believe in. Um, and so it's not just, again, as you said, it's not just about something being technically well written. It also has to be something that we're all passionate about. So I think most of the time we end up passing on scripts that are just good enough. Um, but don't have anything that doesn't have anything special or unique about it that speaks to us individually and makes us really excited to talk more about it and discuss it with others and really want to go spend our time and energy. Yeah. Bringing this to fruition because it is a lot of time and energy that would then be put into it. So, um, it's a tie. That's kind of a hard one. That's kind of a hard, it's hard to say exactly why we might pass in a script because there are also times where we read something and say, this is really great. I love the voice. It's exciting, but this, we're not in an environment right now. You know, there's no, there's, the market doesn't have any desire for a piece like this. We don't think it would sell. Maybe not now is not the right moment for it. Um, but
Jordanyeah,
Anabelbecause that also will happen. Um, so it's not always necessarily just that it's not good enough. Sometimes there are great things that we pass on for other reasons as well.
CourtneyOkay, makes sense. And with regard to some of the writers that you guys might work with on projects, um, what do you guys think are some of the qualities in a writer that make them like easy to work with when you guys are trying to, you know, accomplish a goal or complete a project?
AnabelReally helpful when writers are very open to collaborating and very open to notes and really are willing to listen to all of the input even if they don't necessarily agree with all of it because there's nothing worse than when a rider gets defensive. When we as producers are giving notes. Um, because the notes, the notes process is very much so, you know, a give and take, a push and pull, we give notes. The writer does not take all the nodes, you know, because obviously they should only be taking notes that makes sense and feel right. Um, but in order to do that, the writer, the prerequisite to that is that the writer just has to be open to that process and open to having a dialogue about the notes and not necessarily just being black and white as if we're saying you have to implement all of these, which is not the case. So I'm just kind of being able to have that kind of conversation and having writers be very open and approachable in that way is I think the most helpful thing.
CourtneyI think Jordan mentioned turn scripts to read because you have a lot of material coming in. Um, but aside from that, can you just give a little bit more details regard to the role that interns play at groundswell?
AnabelYes. So because we're very small, you know, it's myself and Jordan and Michael London and Jessica showman. There's only four of us. So our interns are really vital. We really try to have our interns have an active hand in reading material that comes in that we are considering. But also we all like to have insurance read, um, you know, new drafts of our projects that come in. So that they can also become familiar with, uh, with the projects that we're developing as a company. Um, but our interns really help us kind of parse through all the material that comes in and really help us figure out whether it's even worth considering because we just get so much. And so that's what's really important when we first have our interns come in, we like to give them a taste of what our material is like and what we're actively developing so they can get a sense of what do we look for as a company. You know, because every company is looking for different kinds of material to develop. We also try to move in the interns into our development process, whether it's just having them overhear conversations and recent updates on projects because oftentimes we'll also have them read projects that we were already developing. Um, just because Annabel and myself,
JordanI've often read a draft attendance, like maybe third or fourth iteration and it's kind of hard to get removed from it. So it's always good to have our entrance read. Um, so that we get, you know, uh, another third party perspective. And a pair of fresh eyes and maybe catch something that we missed and get, get some opinions that kind of um, either, you know, um, validate our feelings or provide a new input. So yeah, it's really helpful.
CourtneyYeah. What kinds of qualities or skills do people usually need to work as an assistant or as a coordinator at a production company? I know you guys kind of have some experience doing that and whenever people want to work up to where they ultimately want to be, whether it's, you know, being a writer or director or they're going to have to kind of step into these roles. So can you give us just a bit of an idea of, of what skills people need?
AnabelYes. Whether you want to write director, producer, a lot of people will find themselves as an assistant at a production company as the first step. Even if eventually they don't want to work at a production company in the long run. It's a really great position to be in, to learn for any of the roles depending on what you want to do. And it's, it's just really, I think primarily about being enthusiastic and open minded to help support your boss in whatever way you can help support the company in whatever way you can, their basics, like having the answer phones and, um, but for the most part it's really just about being personable and professional in a working environment. Um, because really what you're here to do is help answer the phones and schedule meetings even though that's technically your job, what you're actually doing most of the time is learning via helping settle these things, helping like, you know, lists, connecting phone calls and then listening to all of these conversations play out. Even though you're technically not a part of them yet, this is what you're going to be doing one day. And so even though you are technically administrative support at this point in that position, um, it's actually an incredible way to absorb and learn, um, because you're going to be having those conversations one day. Um, and from there, as long as you show initiative and you know when scripts come in, um, depending on where you're working, it's not always really expected that as, as somebody who's assistant, you read everything that comes into to your boss. But what's the best practice to do is read everything that comes in. That way you can discuss it with your boss and show that initiative and kind of start that dialogue to show that you are willing to do more on the creative side and take on more work and learn more from them. And a lot of this business is paying it forward. So it kind of functions in that way where if you're enthusiastic and you show that you're willing to do what's needed for the job on the administrative side that you are, you will also kind of find hopefully find a mentor who will cheat you and involve you more on the process to create a process where you are interested.
CourtneyAnd what would you say are some of the best ways to get a job at a production company or studio to get your career started? Like what approach have you guys used in the past to get jobs in the industry?
AnabelUm, meeting people. I think that's really what it comes down to. I mean, like I went to film school, I, you know, I went to an agency as my first job and those are two very common ways that people say, you know, if you do that, it'll help you get a job more easily. But when it comes down to it, it's not necessarily that I went to film school or that I worked at an agency, it's that when I was doing those things, I was putting in the effort to meet all of these different people who have now gone, gone onto various jobs in the industry and I still keep in touch with them. And being at those jobs allowed me more easily to meet those people, but actually making those connections with people. And I also interned a lot when I was in college making connections with the people that I met at the internships and keeping in touch with them. Ultimately those relationships were what helps me get all my next internship. And then my first job and then my next job. It was all about, you know, having relationships with people who know that I'm a hard worker and know what I'm interested in. Um, and wanted to support me.
CourtneyAnything you'd like to add Jordan?
JordanI agree with that. Definitely. It's a matter of kind of putting yourself out there and not being afraid to kind of ask people for advice and help and MMM. You know, if you run into someone who's in the industry, you know, even if it's not necessarily a job you want to do, I'm just reaching out to them and like, you know, offering to buy them a coffee or lunch and just, uh, having an informational meeting. Um, well, kind of get you kind of the network and putting your feelers out there. Um, a lot of times you'll unexpectedly find a job that way. Like, you know, I was an office PA and New Mexico and it was kind of a roundabout way to do what I wanted, but I eventually met enough people who had been to the agency system in the studio system that I eventually met enough people to where I was, I got a reference to, um, go work at a studio. So, you know, from working at like some tiny, um, production office in Rio Rancho, New Mexico, I was able to get an interview, uh, Paradigm Agency and then I also interviewed at a studio. Just through these connections you'll often find, I, I guess I wouldn't turn down like a job that you might not think you want to do, um, because you might end up finding, you know, uh, a way or an opportunity or some sort of weigh into what you wanted to eventually. So it's definitely a matter of reaching out and also not turning down opportunities.
AnabelYeah. Yeah. I definitely, I like going off of that. There's no, there's no one direct correct path to what you want to do. Um, you can start at an agency, not starting an agency. Start a production company, you know, start in production rather than in an office. Um, there are so many different avenues to get where you want to go. And the Nice thing about this industry is that you can move around a lot laterally. In fact, it's actually expected, you know, this is not an industry where you go work in the same office desks for 15, 20 years or more. This is the exact opposite of that. You know, there's a lot of movement and it's normal. Um, and it really, I think it really allows you to kind of get your toes in, in certain areas of the industry and once you figure out, okay, this is the direction I like, I'm going to keep it like try to grow in this direction or you can figure out, you know, this might not be the right thing for me and make a lateral move after that because chances are even though we figured out that job wasn't right for you, all the people you met at that job have also probably worked in other areas of the industry or have friends who work in other areas of the industry who know of opportunities that they can help you, um, get in your interviews for or recommend you for.
CourtneyWhat advice do you have for anyone who maybe doesn't live in la, but maybe they would like to move there someday and work in film and television, but they're just kind of like discouraged and maybe think it's a pipe dream. Like, what kind of advice would you have for them
Anabelin terms of like what somebody who doesn't live in La should try to do in preparation of like potentially coming to la or trying to pursue, you know, working in the film and TV industry is just watch a lot of film and TV, but, but watch what you're interested in. Find what you like, find what you would find, what you know, if you want to be a writer or you think you might want to be a writer, find shows and watch shows that you would have wanted to write for, you know, find ideas that you're interested in writing. Um, develop just to make sure that you have a, your own voice and your own pain and perspective because 99% of the time, even though the work experience on your resume does mean something, most of the time it does come down to in the room how you click with people. Um, and I think a lot of people are daunted about coming to la, especially if they live elsewhere because it seems like, Oh, I've got to have certain work experience on my resume, but it's actually not the case. A lot of people come to la from the country and even the world to join the film and TV industry. And most of the time it's, it's really just about putting yourself out there and just having, you know, your own opinion and being your own person and people respond to that
Jordanin terms of getting work, unless you find another job outside the industry that you for sure have. I mean, rather than kind of moving on a whim and just kind of going in blind, I would kind of take your time. It's what I did. And sometimes it can be frustrated as you feel you're wasting your time or your youth. But you know, I, I made sure to get enough connections or do my research and save money to where I was in a comfortable spot to move. And then, um, you know, as you know, whether you're in school or whether you're, or even if you're done with school, I would research internships. You know, it's often kind of frustrating, um, the idea of taking an unpaid internship, but in industry it's kind of, it's kind of the best way to just starting getting connections. Um, so whether you're kind of working on the side or are you have to save up money before moving, I'm definitely looking into possible internships and even doing interviews over the phone or Skype and just letting people know that you're ready to come out whenever I think is a good way to kind of, um, take it one step at a time before moving out here.
CourtneyAwesome. Is there anything else that maybe we haven't covered? Any advice that you would like to give so that you think would be beneficial to the audience?
AnabelUm, I think we've pretty much covered it all, but I do kind of want to touch on something Jordan said earlier, which is don't be afraid to reach out to people, um, and say, you know, hey, I'm just getting into the industry. Um, I was love 15 minutes of your time. You know, I would love to buy you a coffee and just ask you a few questions. Um, and there are a lot of ways to do that. Again, people that you know through somebody, you know, your friend's boss, your friend who lives in La, maybe you could ask if you could talk to their boss on the phone for 15 minutes. You'd be surprised at how often they're like, yeah, sure, why not, you know, rescheduled once or twice, but it'll happen. Um, and in, you know, at your internship, you might intern, you know, and only interact if you're in a larger company, you might only interact with, you know, a few people around you. Don't be afraid to ask whoever's in charge of you. Hey, you know, could I talk to somebody for 15 minutes and so and so department or, you know, can I talk to the big boss or 10 minutes, you know, depending on where you are. Um, just don't be afraid to, you know, put yourself out there and meet those people. Uh, and the end, it just, it's, it's really, it's, this is an industry where it only works where we all pay it forward because yes, there's film school and whatnot, but for the most part, this is really an industry where you learn as you go rather than in a, it's all about the people and people around you and the people you meet and putting yourself out there to meet those people.
JordanAlso too, add to that. Um, as, as you're doing all this and, and reaching out and kind of trying and failing and trying and failing, I think it's best to, the best advice I can give and I'm going to try to convince myself to, is to just not lose faith. I mean, this is an industry mmm. Now with some hierarchy or ladder that you climb up, it's kind of, it's an industry where there's a lot of lateral movement and it's an industry where there's kind of a lot of steps backwards. So it feels like you're not kind of gaining much ground, but it's kind of one where you keep having to chip away at it. And, um, you'll find that, you know, a lot of people in this industry be them actors or writers or producers or directors, you know, they don't make it big when they're in their early twenties. It's like, it's a lifetime of experience that gets you to that, that point and the culmination of like all of your experience be it kind of, um, whether or not you consider them failures or not. You're kind of learning the entire way and at every step of the way. So, um, often feels like you're not going anywhere, but in reality you're kind of learning and just gaining more and more experienced. Um, you'll often kind of look back after and realize, um, how far you actually have come. So I guess just don't lose faith and keep going. The best advice I can give.
CourtneyWell thanks again for coming on. The advice and insight you gave will definitely be helpful to someone out there. Yeah, yeah. Great talking to you guys.
JordanAll right.
CourtneyOnce again, that was Annabel boy and Nova and Jordan Mahoney from ground swell productions for today's stuff. You should read segment actually want to introduce you guys to a book. That would be very helpful if any of you end up interning or working at a studio or production company that requires you to do script coverage. Now, what is script coverage? I didn't know what it was when I first found out I was going to be interning in La, so I bought a book as I'm prone to doing to give me a better idea of what it consists of. The book that I ended up buying is titled Screenplay Story Analysis, the art and business by Asher Garfinkel. Script coverage is basically how a production company goes about grading and analyzing the script. As Jordan and Annabel mentioned earlier, a lot of these companies get tons of scripts from writers who are hoping that they'll help them bring their characters to life. As script coverage allows people like Annabel and Jordan to quickly determine whether or not a script idea is worth producing. An intern that gets a script to read, we'll usually read it and write a script coverage. That coverage consists of a summary of what the script is about. You know what the story is, and it'll have another section dedicated to the interns, comments and opinions about the script. And then usually there's also a section where the intern assigned grades to various aspects of the story, like how original the story idea is. Is there an audience for it? Would it be easy to market? What's the story? Structure is the plot good? How's the characterization? Is the dialogue, any gun, etc. So learning how to write a script coverage is very important because as an intern, you're opinion means a lot and you want to be able to articulate your views very well and in a way that your company wants you to. Garfinckel covers everything you need to know about script coverage in this book. So I would definitely recommend you take a look at it if you're not familiar with how to write one. Once again, if you have any questions or comments, please connect with me on Twitter at Courtney j underscore media, or leave me a comment on whatever platform that you're listening to this podcast episode on. Thank you so much for listening.