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Jordan Sorcery and Stu from Miniature Realms are reading the original fiction published by Games Workshop for Warhammer, 40k, and Dark Future.
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Revisiting Codex: Armageddon | GW Book Club
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Warhammer 40,000 11th edition is taking up back to war-torn Armageddon, but does 40Ks original Codex: Armageddon still hold up?
Stu from Miniature Realms and Jordan Sorcery chat about their latest read in the GW Book Club - a regular podcast talking about classic books published by Games Workshop and the Black Library.
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Hello and welcome to the GW Book Club, where I'm always joined by my good friend Stu from the Miniature Realms channel to chat about classic games workshop books. And this time we have got a real classic, an early codex, the Codex Armageddon book. Stu, do you remember this book coming out at the time? Route 2000, I think it would have been.
SPEAKER_01No, because I wasn't gaming at the time. This was I'm uh I'm a second War of Armageddon man, you see. So I have that weird kind of nostalgia, not nostalgia thing, because obviously I've read it since and I've I've gone back and filled in all the gaps for the the period that I I missed out on. Um but I yeah, I wasn't I wasn't gaming at the time at all. I was in the middle of pretending I wasn't a nerd just after university at that point.
SPEAKER_00Sure, yeah. My I was still a couple of years away from that think of having that period. So I do remember this book coming out. I wasn't as big into 40k at the time though, so I wasn't as closely following it. But it was quite it it felt quite big, it felt like a real thing, like a proper event. I mean, one of the things that I love about this book, this codex, it's very slim, but it is full of like really fun background stuff, and the way in which it ties, it's kind of a really interesting through line for like 40k lore and products, which I think is really interesting. So, for anybody who doesn't know, Codex Armageddon, I think it was the sixth or seventh codex book released for the third edition of 40k, and it is about a specific war, a specific theatre of war series of events. You get some new army lists, but it's really about allowing you to fight battles on Armageddon during the third war of Armageddon. Obviously, very relevant now because we're about to go into the fourth war for Armageddon, I guess, uh with the release of the new 40k edition or the impending release of it. This was at the time, you know, what 26 years ago, was already revisiting the wars of Armageddon because as you said, it wasn't the first one, uh, but this was making it into a proper 40k thing. This was where you got a lot of like foundational lore kind of pulled together, key characters like Gazgall and Yarrick kind of given a bit more flesh, I suppose, to the to what they were up to and to their sort of surrounding lore and all that sort of stuff. But I mean, maybe it's worth actually starting with that second second battle for Armageddon, right? So, what was your early memories of that one then, Stu?
SPEAKER_01The the Yarrick miniature, I think. Right. Um, I mean I can see in the background behind you the the the the the ball game where it was. I think that's where Armageddon first was was a thing, really, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_00I believe so, yeah. Yeah, I've been trying to check it out, but I have not done an exhaustive search. But my understanding is yeah, Jervis sort of created it for that.
SPEAKER_01For that ball game, yeah. And I I can remember that. I can remember being advertised. I never owned it, my friend owned it. I don't think we ever played it. If we did, I I don't remember it. But it was something that was constantly present when you're flicking through white dwarfs in the in the sort of the mid-90s. Um but I did have guard at that time. That previous um really guard before um second edition, I had guarded road trade, I had the old plastic set and loads of the old metal ones as well. But I was also around and I've got guard player for that second edition launch when you had all your your new metal miniatures, your metal catacans followed by the morning guard and so on and so on, and the Yarrick miniatures, so I absolutely love them. Um so I was aware of it from that point of view, but it didn't feel as big then. I think it felt like this story was the background, but it was in the lore. But maybe it's just because my my younger days, sure, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I suppose it's like it it felt I guess it operated slightly differently at that time, right? Like because it I mean the heritage of it is really interesting, I think, because you have during the Rogue Trader era, first edition of Force K. Obviously it's evolving and changing a lot as you get towards second edition, but before you get to second edition, you get the orc books. So the three essentially the first kind of like codex books, if you don't count Realm of Chaos as a codex. Um those orc books kind of give you everything you need to create lots of different types of orcs, and in order to advertise it in White Dwarf, I think 132, 134, something around that, Andy Chambers builds a warband, builds a goth warband, and he is like, right, I'm gonna create my main character and it's gonna be Gazgoldhracker, and here's all of his story and you know what he's up to. So they just created this character and he he converted his model to to have Gazgull on the tabletop for foot for Rogue Trader for first edition, and then as you move into you know getting towards the second edition era, that is when the the war game comes out. Jovis Johnson's creating all these sort of little counter-based war games that are just uh amazing board games, but they are just absolutely they are stacked full of cardboard counters, they're wild because they're just cardboard counters representing everything in the entire universe, all descending on a planet. Absolutely amazing fun. But yeah, that second battle for Armageddon setting takes Gazgul. I think it introduces Yarrick as well. Again, I'm not totally 100% sure, but I think that is where you first encounter Commissar Yarrick, and you get this second battle for Armageddon, you fight it out, Gazgul is defeated if you you know in the lore at least. Obviously, you can still win if you play Gazgull in the game. It's a fantastic game. And then by the time second edition actually releases, Gazgull and Yarrick are now proper characters with proper special character rules in their respective codices, and then now third edition codex Armageddon kind of draws all of that together and says, Let's do it all again. Let's do let's do a third war for Armageddon. And that is exactly what this book is about. It kind of that's why I love it because it is built on loads of like it and this is kind of the the cool, it's a perfect case study, I suppose, in like how Warhammer ha evolves over editions and over times, and how they revisit things and how they grab stuff and they go, Okay, this was a cool idea someone had for a different reason, and then for a different game, and then for a different product, we're gonna sort of change it and evolve it, and and you get awesome stuff, right? Like, I mean, what do you think of the book itself? I mean, look, it is it is very thin, right? But it's got some cool stuff in.
SPEAKER_01It's got it's got everything you need. And to go back to something you mentioned a couple of times there, it's about I've made a note of it. It feels like they've decided this Almageddon thing, we're gonna make this a key thing for 40k, not just for now. We've touched on it in the past, there's been a ball game with Yarrick's popular as a miniature, but we're gonna make this a big part of the ongoing 40k story. Almost feels like when they're writing it, they know they're gonna come back and and revisit and make this a really core part of the ongoing lore for future editions. Maybe some of that is because that's what's happened, and my brain is retroactively working out that. But it just feels like when you're reading it, that they're adding an awful lot of depth into the law, making it really almost believable. Uh, I'm just giving forward to the the last couple of pages, but there's this load of detail, even the force organization, just uh this regiment, this regiment is there, this regiment's there, this regiment's there. And it feels like you haven't seen that kind of stuff before you get to some of the Forge World books in in much, much later eras. So it does feel like they've decided this is going to be a big thing. It's gonna be something that if you talk about Warhammer 40k, it's gonna be a main story arc. Obviously, if the laws built over the years, this is Ulanor, you know, this planet, Armageddon is Ulanor, which is this great battle that ended the Great Crusade, finally defeating a great orc while back then. Um, orcs now see this as this um almost godlike planet that they must make a pilgrimage to as well. So the so much centers around this planet for for law, and I'm not sure they really decided that it was gonna be that important until this book, maybe, or this era and this started all of that. So I've I'm feeling that from reading it. As I said, it might just be with my brain reverse engineering everything. But then it just feels like they've just to make a codex out of it, um, feels like the last one we're gonna try and start something big here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, and I think there's an interesting that reverse engineering piece though, I think that that's actually quite that's quite an interesting way of looking at how Games Workshop have sort of operated. Because yeah, I I don't think when they when they made this codex book, I don't think they were thinking that far ahead. I think that's obviously like later writers or the same writers at times revisiting and kind of saying, right, what what else can we use this for? How else can we make these things like work? For me, there's a really fine line in how you do that, and I think we've seen great successes over the years from Games Workshop, we've seen less successful stuff. The reason I think there's a fine line is because you don't want to make the universe feel too small. So that the more times you revisit something and the more like emphasis and importance you put on like a special prophecy or whatever, like that can make it feel like oh, okay, so this wasn't just an epic battle that happened in the 40k universe, because there's always epic battles happening in the 40k universe. This was like one of the fated ones, which is fine, don't get me wrong, uh, and can work really, really well. You just I don't think you want to do that all the time. You want to kind of leave you still want there to just be this is just one of those things that you know for Commissar Yarrick, this is a Tuesday, right? That it it is just ha what happens in the 40k universe is that the greatest war ever seen descends on the planet and you have to fight to the death, and that is happening like left, right, and centre. I quite like that as well. So you you it's sort of trying to find a way to do it without doing it too much, making it too special, making the universe too small, but also giving it some importance and some stakes, which I think they do through like the way this book is written. So for me, the like the almost the historiosity of this book, this it feels like you are reading like a World War II historical, like an actual textbook to an extent. It's not as dry as that, but it has like then this happened, then Gazgold did this, then this occurred, then the defense bases here, you know, you you get it's a simple way of telling a story, but it's really, really effective, I think.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I think you're right, and that kind of links in what I was mentioning about the the force dispositions at the back. And when you mention it's like reading a historical thing, it's like reading a historical war gaming supplement from a commercial company, something like War of Games, and then they produce a supplement for bolt action, they do campaign supplements, and they're quite often like this. You've got your your history in their case, or law would be in the 40k case, and you've got not so nice pictures, you've got force organization charts, and who was actually there, you've got some stats to play the games for the for the troops you need to take. Um, it's all there. You've got some maps and things, so yeah, it's it's got all those elements. It's not just a law of this faction, and here are their rules, like a standard cotext. It's it's there, but you've got those elements, they're slightly smaller, but it's this is all the stuff that you need, the information you need to go and recreate this in a in this historical massive story arc. Yeah, and it's um it works really well, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And that efficiency as well, the way it's written, because they there aren't many pages. There's you know, like the whole book is like what 30, 40 pages, something like that. Like very, very it's very slim. But you get like maybe 15 pages of law, something like that. But they are it's real, it's all not quite bullet points, but you're really racing through like all of the major tactical maneuvers and strategic decisions. But that actually adds a real like that adds to the scale of it for me. That it's almost like there's no time, there isn't time to get into like the the real nitty-gritty of this, that, or the other because all of these massive things are happening, and it goes through the second uh war for Armageddon, and then it's like, and this is what Gaskold did in the intervening time, and it's really cool. I I really like it because it does paint a picture of like this really smart but still very orky guy who you know like is still driven by the sort of orcish madness, and uh you know, and he's he he is a magnetic personality, and but he's taking advantage of the smart I forget what what do they call him, the the orc um the orc genius who is inventing all of Orchimedes Orchimedes, which is so good, Orchimedes has been inventing all of these like cool technologies, or at least they they assume there's someone out there called Orchimedes who's come up with like teleporters, and like there's an amazing thing about all of these space hulks that they've used to invade the the sector with. They've actually shielded them in such a way that they can all descend onto the planet and land and then become like fortresses which the orcs can sally out from, and it's just it's absurd, but it's so good, it's just such a fun, like it's it is epic nonsense in the best way.
SPEAKER_01Orcs always have been, haven't they? And uh you know that that name came before the rest of it, and someone just said Orchimedes. Oh, that's funny, right? What should we do? Gonna have to squeeze him into it's the way my brain would work, I'm not sure. That name that name's too good to let go. Yeah, and and with your humorous factions, um, in any Warhammer game, they they kind of l let it let go, don't they? A little bit. You never they would never do that with with the guard. Sure. Um, they have to be a bit more grim and and uh but with with orcs anything goes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I do like this as well because it is you know it's not chaos. This is it's orcs, there's a big threat.
SPEAKER_01That was the first war game of Armageddon.
SPEAKER_00Sure, yeah, that yeah, that's going back a bit. But no, I like I like that, you know, and I think we've seen a preponderance of like chaos-based mega threats to the galaxy. Uh, that don't get me wrong, there have been others tyranny to turn up fairly frequently as well. But we don't often get to see orcs as like a legitimate threat. Normally they're a bit of a nuisance, they're cockroaches in space, right, who get in the way, they can be dangerous, they can cause you trouble, but very rarely do we like within the law or within events and campaigns and stuff like that, we don't often get to see them as like a legitimate threat, which they absolutely would be, you know, in in real life.
SPEAKER_01It's when they turn up somewhere really important like this. Yeah, this is the perfect way to do it. Exactly that. If they turned up on another world somewhere else, yes, you'd have to deal with them, but it wouldn't it it would be page four news, not page one news, which again makes is is a nice way of do of like raising the stakes.
SPEAKER_00It's a world it's a world that matters, it's in a sector with forge worlds and a lot of important worlds. Uh you know, this is a hive world, so you get so like in the original battle uh for Armageddon, they talk about like the gangers of the Hive Worlds. Now that came out pre-Necromunda, so those gangers that were being referred to most likely were like confrontation gangers, and it's like drawing in those kind of confrontation things. Here we get okay. Well, you've still got all this Hive World stuff. There's actually like a Van Sar ganger who's been converted into an Imperial Guardsman, like and so there's these little threads of like that's neat, that's like a nice way of updating this thing that existed in the previous version, and like honors that sort of earlier version. But yeah, as as far as a uh like tale of war and setting up, this is a significant battle or a significant series of battles. It sets the scale of it really well, like it feels like okay, this is serious, like the way that you know it talks about the gargans, talks about these like underwater submersibles, like tanks that that come out carrying lots of orcs, these fortresses, teleporters that are dropping orcs everywhere, left, right, and centre, all of the the the sort of the fighter fighter bombers and all that sort of stuff. It's great, it's it's tapping into lots of different stuff and giving you lots of different like you can play loads of different types of games here if you want. It's inspiring, which is what I think it should be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, really inspiring, really taps into the imagination side. So you you've already touched on it there when you talked about the ganger. I think it's page 19. I look at my notes. It's just a heavy metal page, but with different miniatures painted, but it's a way of displaying all the different guard regiments or some of the different guard regiments that were present there, and one of them is a is a ganger from a hive world. But aside from it being a fun page of miniatures, that's kind of saying you can doesn't matter who your guard army is, how you've painted your guard army, you can join in here. What Space Marine chapter? Well, there's loads of Space Marine chapters are in involved in in this. So, yes, they're the main ones and the main story arc, but this chapter was there as well in this area because you've got different battles going on in different sectors of the world, and uh I think it's kind of saying doesn't matter what your Imperial Army is, you can kind of jump in on this campaign. A little bit harder if you're you're playing the evil sides, you kind of there is you have to be aucs, really. There's you know, there's no room for the really crazy like you can see. Yeah, I suppose so. There's always a way. I'm a narrative game, and there's always a way.
SPEAKER_00There is always tyranny in it because I thought it was quite funny, is it literally says, Oh, like you know, maybe you're maybe your chaos or like Dark Elder like mercenaries who have been hired by the orcs, and maybe you can come up with your own idea for tyranids. So they obviously did it come up with one that was you couldn't think of it, but maybe you can.
SPEAKER_01I couldn't think of anything sensible enough to put in print.
SPEAKER_00There's space hooks landing on the planet. You absolutely could, even though they're infested with orcs, you could easily have a space hook that's also got a tyranny infestation on that's now on the planet as well. But yeah, there you go. There's tyranny's running about as well.
SPEAKER_01Sorted, sorted, but yeah, it's always away. It feels like if this is a campaign for all, and um, and it's I like it, it's good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's great. That page of of like Imperial Guard, uh the Ever Metal page that you mentioned, also has a death corp of Krieg, a trooper on it, which I I think is the first appearance of might be, I wouldn't be, yeah. Uh just you know, and it is literally just like here is an alternative like paint scheme. I I think I'm right in saying that. Correct me in the comments if I'm wrong and I've I've missed one. But like it is a very early appearance at the very least.
SPEAKER_01I'm assuming this is the launch of Steel Legion at this time as well. Because they weren't around when I went off to university with all my second edition metal um guard at that point. They were new. So when I came back, I was like, oh, there's there's another set. So I'm assuming that this was around that time because there's a page with all of those on there as well, and very cool they look as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, very cool. You also get the obviously Black Templars and the Salamanders. I really like that so one of the so those are both in the army lists that are in here, yeah, with the Imperial Guard, and then also there are orc speed freaks as an additional army list, which I think is great, and it's just a it is literally an excuse to use all of your Gorka Morka miniatures. So everything from Gorkamorka, like even the Copters, uh which I love I love those models. The Copters are included as well. So you can just use all of your your Gorkamorka trucks and bikes and just stick them in as speed freaks.
SPEAKER_01We've got a lot of this stuff in the warehouse because it didn't sell.
SPEAKER_00Which I you know, I I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't a part of the commercial decision of like why Armageddon. What's a big fight we can do with loads and loads of orcs? There's you know, there's one, and and you know, you're somebody shift these orcs, please. Yeah, maybe maybe. Um, but yeah, very it is very cool. You do you do get the four relatively simple, you know, simpler army lists at the time, I think. Uh you know, you don't you don't need loads and loads of pages, and you've obviously already got the codex books exist for all of those four.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they're supplements, aren't they? They're flavor additions to to your standard lists.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, that's right. And yeah, the the heavy metal pages, absolutely lovely. The orcs that are featured in the heavy metal pages, I think, are amazing. The the the the Gazgull, the Brian Nelson Gazgull thra thrack model, that is awesome. I love the older, you know, the original versions as well, but that that fully like suited up lad.
SPEAKER_01Yes, it's very cool. I wonder if that was released for this as well. I don't know if that was a big miniature release.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I can't I don't know for sure. I can't remember. So it may well have been.
SPEAKER_01I think they got a new Yarrick at this point. I think it was the previous yeah, they didn't tend to update every edition, did they, with miniatures?
SPEAKER_00So don't necessarily I think there had been a second Yarrick by this time though, but then maybe that came out with the maybe that came out with the the Imperial Guard Codex because that predated this the third edition. Yeah, you might be right. Potentially, I I could be wrong on that though. Yeah. But it is it is a really fun, themey little book. I think like I don't I don't necessarily need much more than this to just really get the juice. To really be like, okay, now I want I want to fight this now. Like, I really want to get into it. It puts you in a really cool place where, like, because Gazgell is presented as being quite smart. He spent 50 years planning this, he's got an enormous war, he's done all you know, he's got all of this cool technology and all these cool ideas. His first invasion turns out to have just been him, you know, he's like the Raptors in Jurassic Park testing the fences, and now he knows where the weaknesses are, and he's planned for that, which is great. I mean, you can absolutely see why later writers would want to come back to these characters and to be like, let's do even more with them because they are just so cool. Like they're they're just they are a great example of like an orc leader, and a unique one. I wouldn't want every single orc leader to be like Gasgull. I think you'd you'd I think you'd lose something from the orcs if it if they were all smart and all thought in this way, but as like an outlier, he's great, and then Yarrick, as like the the the platonic ideal of Commissar, is just fantastic. He's so good. He's so good.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Yeah, yeah. I've I've always I don't know what it was actually by it. I've always loved him from the miniature, it was purely born from the miniature originally, with that almost um claw a crab claw kind of hand going on. It's wild, really. Yeah, it'd be very much loved loved by the miniature first, and then uh I think he was rather good as well. I see remember he was quite good in game back then.
SPEAKER_00But uh, I could believe it. Yeah, I could believe it. Was there anything else from the book that like really stood out for you that's like okay, this is just cool, they've done something really well here.
SPEAKER_01I I think we've kind of hit all of the the big points I had, really. I just I think like you said, the balance of it just seems about right. There is there's enough lore there I quite like when it doesn't get too down in the the the weeds sometimes and writing for writing's sake. Um it didn't feel like there was any of that. And I think there's sometimes a bit more of that with 40k writing than there is with with fantasy writing. Um and it just felt the balance was right, the the every metal pages are really inspiring. Um those little bits at the back, the force dispositions, the the big colour map. I love the colour map at the end. So good. So you've got the the the map of Armageddon itself and then the the the solar, the interplanetary one as well. Um it just again just finishes it off. It's just everything's ticked off, isn't it? The scene setting story, the what's happening. These are the forces you could take. Here's your kind of gritty, realistic names of regiments there, and here's your map for it all. Now go and get excited and make up your own regiment and and go and play some games, kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I think this era of 40k codecs is probably my favourite. I think they really managed to nail so like Warhammer Fantasy always had the kind of the privilege, I guess. I don't know why they decided this, but Fantasy always got much bigger, meatier armies books with loads more lore, which I love and I think it's great. Second edition codex books were kind of just a reflection of that, they were a 40k 40k equivalent of it. For third edition, they really slimmed them down, which you know, in what in one sense I think it's a shame because you lose a lot of really good lore, but also if you get your second edition codex, you don't just duplicate a load of stuff. They kind of this at the third edition one is a supplement to the second edition one, if that makes sense. Kind of it's really nice, and they really got to a place of like like there's a real efficiency of on a single page, we will be able to put like a few rules and some background and some images and a couple of characters with a couple of quotes about those characters, and every single bit here is going to do some like incredible like world building in its own right. There's just a they were firing on all on all cylinders, I think, and they were able to find a way to like really make everything kind of like just just ooze 40k like theme. Like it felt really and this might be nostalgia talking now, but it felt like it was just a really nice way, an immersive way to build out the world and to make you feel like there was just loads more to learn all the time. Yeah, yeah, I I think it's great.
SPEAKER_01I agree, I agree. And I think they got those books out relatively quickly, didn't they? That's part of the reason why they were so small was because they were pumping them out of there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean you got to a point where they were like, you know, and this was an era of Games Workshop releases where you didn't get a codex or an armies book for every faction, every edition, but because these ones were slimmed right down, and you know, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you don't lose some stuff with that, but it meant that they could do loads more, so they could do like six a year uh instead of just you know three army books or whatever it might be. So like you you were you were getting more rules, certainly. They just were able to do these really pithy bits of world world building that I like a lot as well, I think. And yeah, if this was the only type of codecs that ever existed, if those second edition ones had never existed, then yes, you probably would be like, I'm a bit at sea here because there's just not enough world building. Yeah, you're kind of assuming a lot, but because they do exist, it means you can get away with these ones being these really slim, like like quite quick world-building stings that you know that you're just peppered with. Uh, I guess in and it probably is one of these things where there's a lot of like you know, rose-coloured glasses. I I I'm sure I will have railed against it at the time and since when I'm like, oh, this these books are way too slim. You're you're not getting shortchanging us, we're not getting anything for our money here. Whereas now I'm like, yeah, I quite like it because I can read it dead quickly, but I still get all of the feel of it. So yeah, I don't know. I'm probably impossible to blame. One thing I was going to mention as well was that they they bring back the traitor, uh, like governor, the planetary governor, so von Straub, who was in second battle for Armageddon and was just and he was done for war crimes because he was just terrible and made the wrong choices, left, right, and centre. And in this, he he portrays the Imperium, he he like reappears in one of the hives and then helps overthrow it in favour of the orcs, and then and then he becomes like a traitor, traitor guardsman, which I just think is really cool. I think it's a neat like little complication to include.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, little complication and a nice little nod to the uh previous war.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So I'm I'm a big fan. I think that this is a good example of just doing a lot with quite a like with with a little, you know. They managed to make a lot of a lot of the feeling of this out of not very much, give you a few tools to kind of have fun with slightly different stuff. Sure, you know, maybe it would have been nice to have a few more specific scenarios and to have a few more like even more world building, even more characters, that sort of stuff, as a bolt-on for the other codex books and for the other lore that already existed. I think it works really well. There are other books that are bigger than this that do similar things, like in games workshop history, that I think are better. So I don't want to I don't want to be like this is the greatest codex book ever written, because it's not. I just think going back now, especially in the context of we're revisiting Armageddon soon, it's just it's fun. It's just really fun.
SPEAKER_01Great, 100%.
SPEAKER_00Well, I you know, we've got a few other codex books and Warhammer Army's books planned. We're gonna get into those in future book clubs, but for now, Stu, where can people find you online?
SPEAKER_01Miniature realms, uh, primarily on YouTube, but with all the supporting social media that you can think of apart from TikTok too often.
SPEAKER_00Fantastic. And I'm uh Jordan Sorcery everywhere that you want to find me. Uh until the next time, thank you, Stu, for joining me, and thank you everybody at home for listening to us chat about just a classic games workshop codecs.