36. The Gift of Possibility: Creating Ripples That Last w/ Sabine Hutchison

What happens when a single act of generosity changes the course of a life?

In this episode of The Butterfly of Why, I sit down with Sabine Hutchison—entrepreneur, co-founder, co-CEO of Seuss+, founder of The Ripple Network, and author of Beyond the Ladder, to explore the ripple effects of trust, opportunity, and human connection.

Together, we discuss the balance between strategy and intuition, why asking for help is often harder than offering it, the importance of finding your people, and how meaningful leadership is built on trust rather than titles. Sabine also shares her perspective on creating lasting impact, empowering others to find their voice, and building careers that align with purpose rather than convention.

At its heart, this conversation is about a simple but powerful idea: one act of generosity can create possibilities that extend far beyond what we can see in the moment.

If you've ever wondered how small moments become life-changing ones, this episode is for you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:23

But then they're starting for lightly rolled and disappeared. Sleeping out the bottom. Still dreaming of the sky.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

The butterfly of Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the Butterfly of Why. I'm your host, Jamie Weddle, and we are here to explore the why behind every first step that leads to growth, resilience, and perspective. What happens when one small moment of help changes the entire direction of a life? Today, we're exploring that question with co-founder and co-CEO of Seuss Plus, Sabina Hutcheson. Because beneath the leadership, entrepreneurship, and the organizations she's built, there is a story about trust, generosity, and the ripple effects people have on each other. And like many of the stories we have here on the Butterfly of Why, it all begins with a moment whose impact would reach far beyond what anyone could have imagined. So let's begin there. Sabina, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Hi Jamie, thanks very much for having me. I'm looking forward to the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

I'm looking forward to it as well. And as for I've spent the past 12 years working in public education as a school counselor. Uh, but before that, I had uh dipped my toes, if you will, into the corporate world. Um so it's always uh interesting for sort of for your purview and kind of what your background is to kind of see this this different side of the world again. So I'm I'm looking forward to your perspective in this.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

All right, let's see what I can share, I can pull out today.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Absolutely, absolutely. Uh and at the end of the day, it's all about the human experience. So from a public service standpoint to the corporate standpoint, we're all still dealing with human beings. So it it this this conversation will definitely serve a positive service that I I do know. So I want to to start with a a moment that at the time I'm sure seemed innocuous and and small, but it changed everything for you. And it's way back in the day. You're you're in college, you're trying to stay afloat, you're working two jobs, and you make a half-joking comment about wishing someone with loads of money could help you focus on your thesis. And and that moment ended up becoming something much bigger for you. So when looking back at that version of you, kind of take me back to what was happening, where were you at? Paint the picture for us. And what do you think that that young woman thought she was asking for? And what do you think life actually gave you?

SPEAKER_00 3:09

That's a that's a big old question. Well, that young woman just thought thought I it was a thought, that's really what it was. It was it was something in my head, and I actually said it out loud. So that's probably the first reference. Is sometimes we should let those wild ideas out and say them out loud. And yeah, I was in college, it was my senior year. I was studying chemistry. I needed to work on my thesis that year, and um I had taken out student loans, my parents helped, but yeah, college, especially went to a private school in Tennessee. It's just expensive in the US, as we, you know, most of us know, different than what it is in Europe where I'm living now. So completely different price tag. And I was working two jobs, but I really wanted to focus on my thesis and um one of the restaurants, I was working at a restaurant, and the owner and his wife were very close, and I babysat their kids, and we'd spend a lot of time together. And one night I was like, oh, I really literally, I can still visualize it. I just leaned back in the chair and I was like, oh man, Tom, there has to be somebody out there that wants to help a girl out. I don't, I want to work hard still, but doesn't there's there's gotta be somebody out there that wants to just do something good? And that wild comment led to somebody actually helping me out my senior year and uh giving me enough where I only had to work the one job in the restaurant and I could focus on my thesis and and do other things and live and be a student too. So it was it was uh yeah, it had a big impact on my life. And you know, you ask about the the the big impact and the ripple effect of that is that it changed how I view helping others and how I see how I see asking um asking for help, um, looking for support, helping others. It just is so deeply embedded in me that um yeah, I don't want to shake it and I can't shake it.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

It's just too much of a part of me now hearing that, I I think there's a very important aspect is that when you're young, there's a level of naivete that a lot of us as we get older in life could probably use a little more of just to have the to have the audaciousness at all facets at any point in life just to say what you want and to put it out there because I I mean it for some people it might be a little bit woo-woo, but the idea of manifesting something, you have no idea the energy you put out what will happen when that ripple hits a wall and what it does when it starts to come back to you. And and another thing it made me really understand too is that relationships really matter because what what was the um the the person that Tom Taylor. Okay, so Tom Taylor. I'm guessing you had built a positive enough relationship with Tom, therefore, like when he heard you, he knew you well enough.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

So there is something to be said about when whatever space that you're in, and this is kind of how I I feel about this, is that like whatever space you're in, you never know what person might be of service to you. So it really goes a long way that whatever space you're in to be the best version of yourself because you're exhausted. And Tom just he knew more of you enough to go, I see her, I know who she is because probably you you had built that relationship enough. He's like, Yeah, I I stand by her, I know what she's about, so I feel good about this as opposed to if it was any other person who didn't build the relationship, and they're just like, Oh, I wish I had money. It might just go, it might just go in and out. So it's a big, big part of um it's corny, but I I do believe like in this. I came up with this saying when I was in in um in grad school, but it's like the best way to catch a butterfly is to make sure your networks that's oh I love that net.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

I really like that, it's true.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Because it's all about networking. Like if you catch something that's very delicate and it's floating around, it's not easy to catch, like you have to make sure that your net is working. Because if there's a hole in your net, then you're not gonna catch the butterfly. So it's like it really goes a long way to really build that foundation, right? And once we do catch that, then you receive help. But one thing I really I think it's cool about you and your story, it's yeah, you receive the help, but I think you sort of figured out a way to build an ecosystem around that that type of mindset that really works for you. So if we're looking at the idea of generosity and you think about scaling generosity, what does it actually take to grow something like that without it becoming very performative or transactional? And instead, keeping it rooted to the genuine human connection that you had in that restaurant at that moment in time.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Yeah. It goes back to some of the things that you're talking about also with relationship and having a having a relationship with yourself. Maybe that sounds also a bit odd, but it's this sense and this connection to yourself. And I believe that that's where the realness of it comes from. A lot of people can say things and you can throw things out there, and you hear a lot of taglines and phrases that people use, but you know and you sense it that it's not real, it's superficial. And that for me is the key about uh the key to just yeah, living it and making it real, that you do have to live it. Words, you know, we talk, we we talk about mission statements and visions and this and that, and sometimes they're plastered on a wall, but you can, you know, it it's the truth about those, and it's the truth to the words you say. And and are you consistent in what you do? And does it kind of weave throughout your life? And isn't is it not just a one-time thing when you're like, oh gosh, I need to do something good today just by chance, but that it's just a part of who you are and something that comes natural.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

Hmm I love that.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

So does that answer your I don't answer the question? It does, it does.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

I I love that. I love that. It's you know, I I hear there's there's an intentionality to to what we say and do. I have a really great friend of mine, and he's he's a a music producer, and his his producing name is Barstool Astronaut. And it sounds kind of like whatever, but I love his his emphasis behind it. It comes for him, it comes from a place of where you have people that are just sitting in bars, and not necessarily about people in bars, but the type of person who's sitting in a bar and they're talking about I'm gonna be an astronaut, and the next morning they wake up and they don't do anything.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

So there's something very important about if you're gonna speak about it, be about it. But none of us are on this journey alone, and it's also about the people that we have around us. So if I surround myself with barstool astronauts, the people who only talk about doing something who but who don't have the same ambition than I do, then I I might not get anywhere. So I think there's also looking at your journey is about a lot of the people that you have sort of accumulated that that have kind of come into your world. If we're if I'm I'm gonna air quote your people, right? But the people that that are the pair the part of people that are are in your tribe, that see your vision, that believe in your vision, that get behind that, who've always stuck with you, they're the ones that they're the people that just don't support your ideas, but they're also the ones that are gonna hold you accountable in a way that's sustainable and impactful over time. So can you talk about the importance of the quality of people that reflect who you are, but also again, the people that hold you accountable because I it's hard to get to a place with just a bunch of yes people. It's important to have people that that trust you and respect you, but also go, hey, let's have a conversation about this because I see we can do better with this.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

Sure. You're right, your people, but it goes back again to who you are and again this relationship with yourself and how you live and the consistency that people see. And I believe too, you're talking about manifesting. I believe also what you do and how you are pulls people to you that are become your people and that are there to support you. I've it's a great example. So I started the Ripple Network, which is a I did maybe I'll go back. So this kind of weave the story, weaves them together. So I wanted to work on my public speaking. So I signed up for a course um to create a TED talk. And Emma Wayner, who now is part of the Ripple Network, gave this course. And there were three women, um, including myself in the course, and we all wrote these, what I thought were pretty fantastic talks. But we never got on the TED stage. And for whatever reason, there aren't any close by, you have to apply, it just never happened. So these beautiful stories were still in notebooks or on a computer, and I thought, uh, this has to change. I want to do something to get these stories out and to share more with the world. So I came up with this idea for the Ripple Network. I was had this at my other company on the side that I'm still kind of running, and I did this on the side, and I couldn't do it alone. And again, this going back and asking for help. And I think the infectious of the infection of your ideas and what you want to do could it can um infect others. So all of a sudden, my people started coming to me and helping me because they were like, okay, one um said, All right, listen, we'll help you build it for really low costs. Emma was like, I'll be a part of this too. And so I started tapping into other people and they started giving their time until we built something that could then turn into a payment. We put in the we did a first cohort for free. They all gave their time for free because they also believed in in what we were doing. So again, because I'd been living this and they'd seen this for me, I believe. And Emma said, your infectiousness for life and wanting to do this is what is pulling me in. So we are accountable to to create these people that are gonna be tough on us when we need that, because we 100% do, but also the ones that are gonna lift us up when we need lifting up and be there to support us. So again, it comes from us and what we do and the consistency of how we give and how we live and how we're there for people.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

I love how you you've you mentioned a couple of times now about the relationship with yourself. That's one of the hardest relationships to make me tired sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

It's a tough one.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

And and and there's a there's a really important emphasis towards how am I thinking to myself? Yeah, how am I speaking to myself? And again, the the type of person that I put out there, it's it's one thing I if I could pretend to be a happy go-lucky person, but if I'm not j genuinely feeling that on the inside, so there is something really important about do I I think there's a lot of work that that each of us have to do, and the work looks different for everyone based upon our pasts and traumas and everything else. But it's a big part about well, I want to have people that support me, but I have to figure out how to support myself first, because if I find positive supportive people who are trying to help me, I might not be able to receive their help because again, what of what is stirring with me on the inside. So it's a beautiful part about, especially if you're looking at helping others with a ripple effect, that if I'm creating self-love and the intention of a ripple effect is to have others feel that same way, then I have to be the one that like genuinely feels it on the inside of myself. And and what really drew me to this conversation today is it's the butterfly of why. And and one of one of the the ideas in this show is it's a butterfly effect. That if if if I have this platform and I use it to to share positive, invigorating voices, then what can that ripple effect or the butterfly effect be for someone else who I might not have close contact with? So it's a really important thing that we someone such as yourself to to take this action to go, man, we have these really great stories, and okay, we didn't accomplish the goal, didn't get to a TED stage, but what can we do with this that could create this ribble effect for years to last for maybe some some small, some young girl out there who might hear these voices, and instead of her path being over here, the trajectory changes because of your original intention. So that's a that's a very powerful thing right there.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

It is, and it's so fantastic to watch, and it's even the younger girls, but we I'm seeing the first impact of this first cohort that has gone through. So they created their own talks, and we've just recorded those, and it makes me almost emotional to think about that they're gonna get they're gonna get these stories out there. These are like my first ones, and what I thought about like over a year ago, that now these beautiful stories are gonna get out and people are gonna hear them and hopefully be inspired by them and maybe decide to do to do something like that for themselves. Because I think we, you know, we learn from stories and we get motivated and we become resilience. Can also come from watching and learning from other people. So I just love this. And this, you know, you have the the butterfly effect, and it's but very similar, right? The way that we think with the ripples. It's very, very connected. That's why I was also really excited to be to be on this. And and it's so true too that sometimes you don't know. And those are sometimes um, I have a podcast as well, and this season is about the ripples that you don't see. So you do things, but you don't know, and it could be years from now. Sometimes there's instant kind of, yeah, you see the instant um impact of something that you do, but sometimes you don't. You know, I did a um I did a book reading for my book a month ago for free, and I gave a bunch of books away for free and sent out chapters to people just so we could they could be a part of it. And I just got a mail today from somebody in Brussels that wants to invite me because they heard about that, to come and do another reading there. So I had no idea I didn't know what was going to become of that, but again, I was excited about doing it and I was excited about the conversations that were happening, and bam, there's you know another ripple that's coming back to me for that. So yeah, it's again, it's this doing things because it feels right and it also with your intuition that you know it's the right thing to do.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

And and I wanna I want to uh stay stay on intuition for for a moment there because that's I I love this this idea. And I was thinking a lot about going into this conversation because there's there's a level of trust that that a person has to have in themselves when they walk out of the house to go, everything I'm saying, everything I'm doing, it's going to do something beneficial. Whether it works out or not the way that I want it to, I have to believe that like it's already it's already set in stone, no matter what. And but if I have a positive intention to walk out of my of out of my front door every day, knowing that I'm pursuing something that's going to make myself better, but also others as well, there's just this trust. I mean, it's like people that are spiritual, it's it's it's like a leap of faith to actually wholeheartedly believe in it. If if for anyone that's kind of into the Joe Dispenza world of things, it's like there are an infinite level of realities that exist if we think about it and have the opportunity to create that. So again, a ripple effect, there's no there's no telling like what that's gonna be. It's the the the cliche metaphor of dropping the pebbles in the pond. But it's but it's it's true in terms of like what those ripples look like and what that stirs in the water is so many uh minuscule things that we don't realize that are happening to your effect of sharing some books and then having this opportunity come up in such a natural way, which is different than waking up and I think it's important to have drive and desire and hunger, but it's a different thing to be like, I gotta, I have to grind. Like we, especially in America, it's like we're just a grind culture, you know. And and I've never been to Germany, but I know plenty of Germans. There's there's a there's there's a very precise level of execution. It's like we're going to do things for a reason and we're gonna do it to the best of our ability. But there's also just something about going like I have done the I've done things to the best of my ability, but now let me see what's gonna happen because this part's exciting because I have no idea. And there's something thrilling about this letting go part of things in life, and I that's that's a hard thing for a lot of people to do, especially if we live in these capitalistic societies and it's it's all about outcomes and and resources. But it's like if you've done the work and you trust yourself, you trust your people, then there's this party go, it's like standing on stage and performing, like you you've done the work, let it go and and trust what's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

And that's hard. You know, we sit here in this conversation and say, yeah, la la la, you know, you can you do that, and that is our mindset, but it's hard too. There are days where, you know, today I also got a positive email about that, but then I also got one um, you know, because I do this, it's a business. I have to have income to keep it going. You know, I've decided that I want to have it be affordable, so that is something, but I still need to get the next cohort in to keep the whole program going. And I'm doing BD, I'm sending things out. I got an email today from a company in the US that said, you know, Sabina, because it's focused for women, we can't do that because the current situation in the US, we can't offer any programs. For women that are focused that aren't, you know, reversed and also available for men. I was like, oh man, I want to do it. Okay, what am I going to do now? I have to keep going and figure out a way. All right, if they can't do it as a company, she was like, all right, individuals can sign up and then maybe we reimburse them as part of their training programs. But you just have to constantly keep going because it's it's it is a challenge. But again, if the core mindset is there and set and you and you have that drive and you keep going, then it makes it does make it a little bit easier to kind of get out of those lows and and get back up.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

So a a simple mantra that I I just have to keep filtering through my brain over and over, no matter what's happening in recent years, is keep the main thing, the main thing. And it's simple, and it may it's something I've known for years, but I don't think I fully understood it until getting to this stage of life. But it's when I find myself becoming too emotional or anxious about something, I keep the main thing, the main thing. What am I doing this for? And why am I doing this? And that I find that it's really important to center ourselves because I I could hear you say this, and there's there's a lot of semantics and a lot of nuance of what you're having to deal with that has nothing to do with like the the big hearts and the the love of everything, you know. It's like the part that made you emotional a moment ago is like that's the heart of it. But there's so many mo there's so many moments throughout your day where that's not there. It's just emails and technicality and and there's finances involved and it's it's minutia. And it's and again, it's I think it's so important when when though for for for any of us that when that that turmoil starts to sort of billow up, you kind of go, keep the main thing, the main thing. I'm gonna figure this out, but like let me just let me stabilize myself, A1. Why am I doing this? Okay, it's gonna be fine. It's like coming back to a why, it's the Simon Cynic. People don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it. It's it's a really important thing, and and as played out as the why kind of is in the modern society, it really is because it's like whether you're a parent, whether you're an athlete, whether you're a business person, counselor, whatever, it's important to kind of come back to a a your your foundation.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

100%.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Why am I doing this?

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Yeah, so true.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Um I I want to look at storytelling because you you had mentioned storytelling and it kind of perked up in my mind because we're we're we are having this conversation on different continents on on a on a digital device. We are living in the digital world. OG, OG human beings, before we had computers, before there were books, before there was writing, storytelling. It is so important for for stories to be shared because that is what we are as human beings. We are we are we're we share stories, and that is how our our memories get passed down, our legacies. Now, we do have the advantage because of in a digital era that we have uh a different advantage on how to share stories. But I want to ask you why for the Ripple Network, why do you think that the storytelling component was so important as an emphasis towards starting that platform?

SPEAKER_00 25:36

I feel that there's so many, you know, you you hear the um you hear a lot of people get up and give speeches and they tell stories and they're able to do that. But there's so many people that I've met that have impactful information stories to share, and they're just not given the place to do it. And that that was the driver. So it was part of the storytelling, but it was also getting that out there for them and getting a release for them to share um challenges that they face in their life that could potentially support someone else. And you know, part of what we do is that we look at people can struggle with how to tell a story. And oftentimes, if if you're if you're standing in front of someone, you're like, ugh, it's like being at a at a party and thinking, okay, I really want to dance to this song, but you can't think of the song. You're like, oh, wait a minute, what is that? What was the name of that song? And it's the same with storytelling. We have so much packed away, but it's a challenge to bring it out. So what we want to do is help them bring out those stories and be able to not even just to do it in a talk, but also in their day-to-day. So we work on getting people to have their Spotify list of situations and stories so that it's here and it's present, and so you're able to build it into conversations. So it's not just giving a talk at the end, but it's also teaching you how to help someone with an analogy that you have that could support them in a decision that they're making. So that that was the storytelling piece is how to help people weave it in, not only to a talk, but also in their day-to-day when they're presenting. How do you get someone, you know, you could leave the slides behind, and if you're able to captivate people with the way that you share the stories, that's the key. So that was the storytelling piece that was um that I felt was really important, is that we live in a world too where you know, every I've seen it so much too. If you're in a meeting, if you're in a presentation, people read slides, people read everything, but they don't, you know, they're not able to, or they struggle, or they don't know how. I think everybody can do it. You just have to learn how to. And um that's one of the things that we feel was really important in teaching is that storytelling piece.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

There's a lot of people that you can meet who who feel they don't have a story. And I'm I'm convinced if you're born, you have a story. It doesn't have to be, you know, Harriet Tupman or anything, but everyone has a type of story. There's a gentleman here in in California by the name of Ross Zabo, and in the States he's widely known as really one of the mental health experts, but specifically he works with a lot of schools. And I I did a workshop with him at UCLA several years ago, and and the workshop was really encouraging from an educational standpoint. But I see how it expands beyond education. But his his emphasis towards if you're a teacher and you have students, if you find moments to share parts of yourself, again, it it's everyone has their own comfort zone, but if you find moments to share parts of yourself, it helps it helps to open up others to feel comfortable and safe. And it makes you more human. And it's it's an individual learning themselves to go, okay, I I've I've experienced adversity in life, right? And if I if I'm a teacher and I have a student in a classroom and the student is facing some level of adversity, how do I tap into my own empathetic side? Because I have my own stories that I've experienced in life, and I might not see much of it, but if I can tap into my own self to go, oh, I've I've felt something like that before. I can share a story. And what that does to really fostering positive human connections, I think it's storytelling just can't be underscored. That's true. As a school counselor, as a school counselor, I have the ability to share a lot. Now, if I'm a therapist, it's a little bit different. So I think that that's the kind of cool thing that I get to do as a school counselor is I get to share a lot and about what it was like for me to be a child and in school in my home and all those things. And I find the right moment to share a story. And you just never know what type of sh story someone could hear and go, oh wow. So it's a beautiful thing that that when I hear about what with what you do with the Ripple Network, again, like I said, there could be some young girls somewhere in the world who doesn't have that guidance or that voice, and it could be that one story that goes, because all of us we have we've heard stories from other people, whether celebrities or just friends and family or whatever. We uh we hear these stories where we go, yeah. Oh, and then something just starts to grow inside of us. So again, I think it's an important thing for listeners. Uh you have a story. Absolutely, and you never know when you never know when your story can make someone go, ah. I mean, hearing your story about just having a moment as as a young person in college who just like, ah, God, I wish I had money. Like, that's a story. And and someone else could hear that and go, Oh, maybe I need to take more chances with just speaking my truth to the world because I I heard this conversation with Sabina, like Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

I mean to step away from fear. Here's one thing, right? And I think for me, that that is that for me is the is don't be afraid to ask for what you want. And and if somebody hears that and asks more questions or asks for, I I need this, I need a hug, I need need whatever you need. I need a salary increase, I need, I want. Um so that it's about asking for what you want because you have every right to ask for what you want. And to your and I think to your point about the storytelling, it builds connection and it builds trust so much faster. So you can hear a story. Somebody could just read five bullet points and you're like, yeah, whatever. But if they're if they've framed it differently and told you a story somehow that you can relate to, you're like, oh, you want to have that connection and you want to, there's this, there, there's a sense of, yeah, a sense of trust. Whether, yeah, you should or you shouldn't, it's there because you feel that somebody's just been vulnerable and shared a piece of themselves with you. So I mean you're like, huh, there's there's maybe I maybe I will also, you know, come back and share something with that person.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

It's it's a struggle to ask for help. There's a vulnerability. And I I I've shared this this often that uh a big part of my childhood was uh was hypervigilance and and protecting self, whether it was at home or at school. And it got to be really difficult for me to ask for help. And it it wasn't until my I met my wife where she she would just be looking at me like, dude, I'm here. Like ask, ask for help. Like you're not well. Let me help you. And but it's a struggle because we have our pride. We have again, if it's it's a deeper part around our identity, or if we're struggling with our self-worth, or I mean, to just even the in the sake of if we're looking at um gender identities, like to be masculine, or to be feminine, it's like it's a difficult thing to to ask for help to be vulnerable or to feel that it's okay, or no one's gonna see me as as weak. And actually, duh, it's actually a strength to go, no clue, not a clue. Can you just I need I need some help? Like it's I never I it took me so long to understand that because when I was a kid, asking for help became a consequence, but with a different level of self-worth and trust in myself, it's going, oh wait, let me just find good people and let me ask the good people for help because I don't I don't have all the answers. So I just raise a hand and go, hey, by the way, I I'm really scared right now, or I'm lost, or I'm confused, or how do I do this thing? Like, help me. And it's it's an important thing to really be vulnerable that way.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

And if you think about it, most people want to. People go through life, they don't want to go on this journey by themselves, and they want opportunities actually to support other people. And you can turn it around and say, Well, I'm actually giving, you know, by asking for help, I'm giving someone else the opportunity to do something good, and that makes them feel good. So just I think it's it's the way that we've been conditioned to think about it. And I Googled once asking for help, and it and the uh the definition came back as something also with the word weakness included, that you look weak when you ask questions because you're supposed to do things by yourself. And I just I don't believe that. I don't believe that we're in this life on our own. We don't we we can't survive on our own. And I believe that you know, with community and we're meant to be with other people and uh and asking for help is part of it. We just can't, you know, you can't build a house by your you can't do things by yourself. I mean some things you can, but in general, it's a lot more fun with somebody else too.

SPEAKER_02 35:16

So I I always reference we as as humans are are we're tribal creatures. We are not meant to be isolated and and and stuck in caves. Like we we only grow and thrive by the people around, but we can't really grow if we're not willing to like show the vulnerable side of things. And um one of the bigger things is um there's a particular F-word that leads other people to saying the actual F word and it's failure. And that goes to the same idea that if I fail at something, then I have to go into a hole and find a way to to figure it out because I I can't show anyone that I am meek and I I did something wrong. But there is something very powerful about going, I failed at this thing. And I need help. I mean, whether it's someone that has to go to AA because they're having substance abuse problems, like that's a strong, strong thing to do. I failed at this, or like me working in public education where I don't know how to do something if I I don't know how to help a student. I'm failing at at helping the student, what do I do? So I'm gonna go to someone who has more information than than I do. So it's so important to go. I failed at this thing. And again, even failure is a strong word. Um, but I think that's the way we internalize it. But it's not necessarily failure, it's just it's a setback, it's a misstep. But it's if we know that there's no such thing as perfection, then be okay that this thing didn't work and go to someone with a level of trust in yourself to go, hey, I tried this, man, it didn't go well. What do you think I could do? And that's a that's a really big thing for for people that again, when you have your people, you have your tribe is to make everyone feel that they're supported, especially if we're looking at in like corporations, like what does good leadership look like? Really good leadership is helping understand the the the everyone else that if this didn't work out, okay, I'm gonna guide you through this so we don't have to do this again.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

Yeah, and failure is a part of life. I failed. I I I've started four companies, two of them failed. Um they you know, one of them I started an app. This was also kind of a bizarre thing. I don't know what I was thinking actually, but I had this idea to do um uh an app with a friend of mine that that uh had care characters send your voice, send a message in your voice, so record it and send it. So we just thought that this was great. This is like 14 years ago. We weren't programmers, we were totally dependent on it on a programmer to help us, and it just it wasn't clever to get into a business that we just we didn't know enough about it and it didn't work, and it was painful, but I learned a lot during it, and and it's also part of life. It just is I think that we just categorize things that we you know to list ourselves as good or bad or because something didn't work out, some other things did work out, and it's just part of life, and you just and I think you pick up and you go and you learn from it, and you don't condemn yourself because what a project or a company didn't work. So I don't know. I think that we're too we're we're too quick just to put this failure label on, and that we're we're quote again bad people, these labels on things because something didn't work out.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

And we want to play it safe. But if you play it safe, then where where's the growth? I mean it doesn't feel good in the moment where you have an idea or you have a concept or you have a plan and it just crashes and burns. Doesn't feel good, but the best experience, like that's teacher. That is what's teaching us, like experience is the best teacher. But if we don't give ourselves the the grace to go, I'm gonna try this thing, it might not work out, but I'm still gonna learn something. It's like when when people start dating. You have a lot of bad dates you go on and and relationships that don't work out, but you learn more about yourself, you learn more about, oh I cate, you know what, that was kind of on me. I probably could have done it, done that differently. Or that type of the personality in that relationship didn't work for me. So you're accruing all of these experiences that give you more of a better idea of what type of person you want to be in a romantic relationship with. But the the same thing within the career path of of what you're going to do. This works for me or this doesn't work for me. But if I if I don't try, I will never know. But our default as humans is keep it safe. Let me just let me get in this lane because this is easy, because I don't, I don't know if I have the strength to deal with the emotional fallout if it doesn't go well. And that's from a person that had to overcome a lot of insecurities. I understand it all too well to go, I don't want to deal with the bad version of myself that's going to beat myself up. So let me just stay over here. I just always struggle to stay over here because I'm like, I'm not growing over here, man. So I just had to keep pushing myself to do things where I'm like, all right, let me be vulnerable. Like again, starting a podcast is strictly from a standpoint of I want to have positive conversations, but also the lack of of how sure it is is the most excruciating thing to go through. But man, like I I know when I first started this podcast, it was it was a struggle because I I didn't know all the technicalities of it, but I just knew, all right, Jane, a year from now, will you still feel the same way? No. You just have to push through this thing and then know you're gonna feel really grateful because you pushed through it as opposed to I mean I probably quit this in my mind probably seven or eight times in the first few months. I never said it aloud, it was just like this frustration. I'd be driving home because like an episode didn't work out, or just something just was terrible in my mind. And I drive home and I'd be like, all right, figure it out, do it again. And there's just a level of, again, going back to someone that someone's going to AA. Uh someone that has has a physical injury, like you have to take it day by day, step by step. You try to start an app, yeah, it didn't go well. But then the next day you had to take one small step to figure out well, what's the next move? What's the next step? And keep trusting myself. And will this actually provide me? It's is it a total failure, or did it provide me with some information that's going to help me with something else? So it's not be not so much being a prisoner of the moment, but knowing this thing, it doesn't feel good, but it's going to teach me something and it's going to provide something positive for me at some point down the road. I just have to trust that part.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

And I and I believe that we need to be cautious about comparing ourselves to others. You know, I've heard people talk about, oh, you know, wow, you've taken risks, you've done this. You moved, you know, moved to Germany also with two suitcases and you know, high on love to this great man. And other people are like, I would never do that. I was like, well, that's okay. You don't have to do that. So don't compare yourself to me or what I do to also or to anyone else to, you know, put your the the level or the value of yourself. If you want to drive 50 in that lane, then do that and do that well. You don't have to be, you know, speeding and trying new things. Stay there. And if that's that's comfortable for you, you know, maybe you want to try a couple of, maybe you do it for a while, you get a couple of challenges that you think, okay, well, I might try it. Maybe I'm gonna go up to 60. But don't compare yourself to someone else if you don't do things as quickly or as quote risky. I'm pretty comfortable with taking risks. I do it it is kind of who I am. I'm I'm I I'm have I have fear of failure. I yeah, I mean, I don't like the idea of having things not work well, but I'm able to kind of get over that pretty quickly and get on to the next thing. So that's something that I'm that I'm able to do. But other people struggle with that, but don't judge yourself because you do it differently. And I think that that's one of the things that is also so key is be good with yourself. I say, you know, you challenge yourself too. You don't maybe you don't get too comfortable. But if if you're happy in your position and you want to stay in that, do it well and be happy with that too. You don't have to be, you know, the CEO of a company.

unknown 43:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

It's uh comparison is the thief of joy. Especially living in a digital era where all we're seeing is on so social media is just comparisons, comparisons. And I'm pre-internet era, I've been guilty of comparison.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

To a to a f to a fault. And it's it's one of those things of with having knowledge of self is it it comes up and I have to catch it to go, mmm. It's not you.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:27

Nope. That's that's that that's that person. That's that's their own path. And it's like it's this like build-up. And I catch and go, I just take the air out of the balloon, and then it builds up. So for some people, it could be it's it could be a daily process, but it's being aware, am I comparing myself to someone else? It's okay to compare yourself if if you see a direction, you're like, I I like that. I I want to I want to get in that lane. But if I don't want to get in that lane, then I don't have to, I don't I shouldn't have to fret. If my life, however I live it, is content for me, push the comparisons away. I I I w this planet has eight billion people. I say this all the time, like no one cares about what I'm doing. Like no one really cares in this planet, like what I'm doing. I don't mean that in in a callous or empty-hearted way. I just mean like eight billion people have many, many things to do. No one is fretting about what I'm doing. So don't compare myself, be okay with I'm doing, and if we're gonna fail, fail forward.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Yeah, and it is a constant check. I do it as well. Yeah, you know, we we we talk, we're talking again. I mentioned, I say it again, we're talking about it in this in this episode, but it's a it it is, it's a catch every day. After I catch myself, I was like, nope, Sabina, don't go there, don't compare. You don't have to lead that way. You find your way, what works for you, and what feels comfortable. Um, there are lots of different, you know, from leadership, you were you were mentioning this earlier. There's all kinds, there's a full spectrum of how you lead. Some people are firmer, some people are softer. Find what works for you. And um, and I think that that's that that's what I've learned a lot is um around the comparison side of things, is that I've thought that, and being a woman sometimes as well. I've seen a lot of male male leaders, and I think, oh, do I need to be that stern or do I need to be that kind of gruff in order to be taken seriously? And I had to catch myself and not do that. I was like, nope, that's not who you are. You know, you continue to be who you are, and um, and build your own style of leadership. But it it is, it's a regular check-in with myself to make sure that I don't do it.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

Yeah, I love that. So just uh be aware of what's happening on the inside at all times. Um so I know you coming from Germany, you're kind of in happy hour mode right now. I am.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

Oh, too much time.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

I I want to get you out of here with this one last question here. Um I I'm I'm about to go on to second coffee here in Los Angeles. So, all right, last question for you. If if so much of your work has been built on trust, collaboration, and long-term relationships across different cultures and industries, what do you think you've ultimately learned about the kind of leadership that actually lasts?

SPEAKER_00 47:18

Hmm. For me, I see that as being dependable. And the leadership that lasts is the consistency and the and that somebody can depend upon me. That I will if I say I'm gonna do something, I'll do it. Um, I'm consistent in my messaging and and and the way that I lead. And that's it's actually for me, I think that that's the the simplest. That's it's pretty simple. Um don't go in extreme ways, be dependable. No people can come to you. And uh and Bill, and the empathy piece I think is really important that people can uh they feel comfortable when they come to you and they know that you're not gonna judge them if they come to you with any kind of um issues or challenges.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

The this the saying that I continuously re-tread on this show is attitude reflects leadership. And yes, that is from Remember the Tends. Um But I but I love it. It's like if if if we as leaders are are accountable, consistent, we show empathy, and that's that's if that's what I want as as a person, then I'm going to per present that as a leader, and well then someone's more likely to to follow because of that level of of honesty.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

And they're they're gonna trust you, and I and I think if if I if I think back of all of the the leaders that I've worked for, they're the ones that I've stuck with and that I've had the closest relationships because I knew I could trust them. And they they had my back.

SPEAKER_02 49:01

Sabina, I appreciate you coming on here today. Uh I appreciate your work. Uh, I'm looking forward to to eventually experiencing all the different ripples because I'm sure they will come back in my world in some way. Um Sabina, thank you so much for coming on here today. Uh, it's been a wonderful conversation with you. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

Thank you, Jamie. Thanks for ending my week on such a positive note. It's been a real treat.

SPEAKER_02 49:26

Excellent. And before we go, your book, uh Beyond the Ladder, where can anyone go that wants to read it, where can they go to find that book?

SPEAKER_00 49:36

On my website at SabinaHutchison.com. But soon, I think by the end of this month, I'm gonna be an Amazon finally. I just ordered my first proof copy, so it's on its way. And once that's uh all looking good, then we're gonna flip the switch and be an Amazon. So hopefully July 1st, there.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

Nice. I love it. I love it. Well, thank you for that, Sabina. Enjoy the rest of your night. Go have a great happy hour.

SPEAKER_00 50:03

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 50:04

And with that being said, this is the butterfly of why, Jamie Weddle. I'm your host. My only goal with this show is to leave the world a little bit better than I found it. So please, let's share that together. I'll see you on the next episode. Peace.