This Constitution

Season 4, Episode 4 | Valley Forge: When the Revolution Almost Froze to Death

• Savannah Eccles Johnston & Matthew Brogdon • Season 4 • Episode 4

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 37:02

What Happens When an Army Freezes and a Government Can’t Supply It?

Valley Forge is remembered as one of the great symbols of American endurance, but this episode asks a deeper constitutional question: what happens when a revolution depends on a government too weak to supply its own army?

In this episode, co-hosts Savannah Eccles Johnston and Matthew Brogdon tell the story of the Continental Army’s brutal winter after the British captured Philadelphia. Washington chose to camp just 18 miles from the occupied city, close enough to pressure the British but far enough to avoid surprise attack. What followed was a six-month test of survival: 9,000 soldiers entered, thousands lived in cramped log cabins, and hunger, disease, cold, and supply failures pushed the army to the edge.

The episode explores what Valley Forge revealed about the weakness of Congress, the limits of state cooperation, and the danger of relying on civic virtue when food, clothing, and money disappear. Johnston and Brogdon also discuss Martha Washington’s role in restoring morale, the performance of Cato, Baron Friedrich von Steuben’s transformation of the army, and how Black soldiers’ service helped shape Washington’s changing views on slavery.

Tune in to learn why Valley Forge was not only a military turning point, but also a constitutional warning. The army survived, but barely, and the lessons learned there would help shape the case for a stronger national government.

In This Episode

  • (00:00) Introduction
  • (00:22) Why Valley Forge became an iconic American story
  • (01:32) The British capture of Philadelphia
  • (03:43) Why armies stopped fighting during winter
  • (04:34) Washington responds to critics
  • (05:16) Why Washington chose Valley Forge
  • (06:28) 9,000 men enter, and 7,000 come out
  • (08:04) Hunger, disease, and brutal conditions
  • (09:23) Why Congress could not supply the army
  • (13:14) Washington’s circular letter to the states
  • (16:26) Farmers, profit, and civic virtue
  • (18:15) Martha Washington arrives
  • (21:53) Cato and republican virtue
  • (27:08) Baron von Steuben disciplines the army
  • (31:00) Black soldiers join the Continental Army
  • (35:18) Final lessons from Valley Forge

Notable Quotes

  • (00:37) “Valley Forge... is this kind of iconic moment in American history of suffering and perseverance and ultimate triumph.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston
  • (00:56) “It’s also a moment that rings warning bells about the weakness of Congress.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston
  • (17:32) “The profit motive is not always patriotic.” — Matthew Brogdon
  • (35:32) “What emerges from Valley Forge is not the same as what went into Valley Forge.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston

Resources and Links

This Constitution  

Savannah Eccles Johnston

Matthew Brogdon

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:00:05 - 00:00:21]

We the people, do ordain and establish his Constitution. Welcome to This Constitution. My name is Savannah Eccles Johnston.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:00:21 - 00:00:22]

And I'm Matthew Brogdon.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:00:22 - 00:01:40]

And today we're going to talk about Valley Forge. And as we start, I want you to imagine Arnold Friberg's iconic The Prayer at Valley Forge. And you've got Washington on one knee, praying in a forest, his horses behind him. So Valley Forge, this picture captures. It is this kind of iconic moment in American history of suffering and perseverance and ultimate triumph. It's kind of the location that builds a disciplined Continental Army. It could have been the breaking point of the Army. Instead, it kind of . . . They emerge as a stronger, more disciplined fighting unit. And it's also a moment that rings warning bells about the weakness of Congress and potentially about the kind of flagging support of the American people for the revolutionary cause, because you're now, you know, a year or two into the American Revolution and kind of the initial fervor has died out. So it's this testing ground. We learn important lessons. It'll be important 11 years later. So we're going to tell you the story of Valley Forge today. First, let's talk about how they get to Valley Forge. Why did we end up in Valley Forge in the winter of 1777-1778? And it starts with the British capture of Philadelphia. So maybe you can start us. Why is this a serious blow? And why does Washington decide to camp, you know, 20 miles outside of Philadelphia?

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:01:41 - 00:03:43]

Well, the capture of Philadelphia is a huge loss. I mean, everybody knows the Declaration was written in Philadelphia. It's the most iconic location of the founding Independence Hall. So. So the fact that the British are in possession of it is a real problem. Congress had earlier in 1777. Well, actually late in 1776. So the year the Declaration's published, Congress, seeing the losses in the winter of 1776 that Washington is suffering, this is the winter before he goes into Valley Forge. So a year prior, they had had some of these other iconic like the crossing of the Delaware when Washington, in winter, crosses with a ragtag army, manages to attack some outposts, the British and Hessian forces, Princeton and Trenton retreats back into Pennsylvania. That followed the awful loss at New York. So you basically had victory at Boston, a couple of small victories in New Jersey in 1776, and then it's all bad after that. So it had been a really rough year. Congress had already fled in the midst of all the troubles to Baltimore at one point. So the first edition of the Declaration, that's actually Published with all the signers names on it. Congress has published in Baltimore by Mary Catherine Goddard's press. It's the first time the world learns the identity of all the signers. And they do that in part as a sort of show of that. Actually, even more so than the original Declaration. The publication of that one in 1777 was like Congress saying, no, we really are staking our lives, fortune and sacred honor on this. Even though the army is losing, things are going badly, we've fled Philadelphia, we're hiding in Baltimore. We're still sticking to it, and we're putting our name on it. So that was very important. So Congress has shown some real bottom in doing this. And so we fast forward to the oncoming winter of 1777. Pashna has to winter his army. He picks Valley Forge.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:03:43 - 00:03:57]

Let's pause here for a second and talk about why they winter their armies. So the British are going to winter in Philadelphia. And this is a tradition among British generals is, you know, the summer is for fighting, the winter is for hunkering down. Right. You take the break.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:03:57 - 00:03:58]

Yeah.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:03:58 - 00:04:00]

And Washington is going to follow this tradition.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:04:00 - 00:04:03]

He's also going to arresting the local women folk.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:04:03 - 00:04:25]

Right. So you're going to take the break during the winter. And Congress isn't happy about this. There's actually two congresses in exile here that he's having to deal with the Pennsylvania legislature and the Confederation Congress, and I think the Pennsylvania legislature is in Lancaster, and they actually start grumbling that Washington should not be taking his men into winter camp. They want him to keep fighting the

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:04:25 - 00:04:27]

good fights who take back Philadelphia.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:04:27 - 00:05:15]

Right. To take back. And this is actually, I've got a great quote here from Washington that he writes in response to this criticism. I can assure those gentlemen that it is much easier and less distressing thing to draw remonstrances in a comfortable room by a good fireside than to occupy a cold, bleak hill and sleep under frost and snow without clothes or blankets. However, although they seem to have little feeling for the naked, distressed soldiers, I feel superabundantly for them, and from my soul pity those miseries which it is neither in my power to relieve or prevent. In other words, it's all nice and good for you to criticize us, but you're in a comfy bed by a fire in a house, and my men are sleeping on a cold, bleak hill and starving and freezing to death. So please, no criticism. So he decides to go out to. He does decide to winter at Valley Forge.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:05:15 - 00:05:18]

And in relation to Philadelphia. Yeah, you're getting to this?

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:05:18 - 00:05:41]

Yeah, yeah. 18 miles away. But it has a really strategic location. The 18 miles is really important and why he chooses Valley Forge in particular proximity to British forces. But it's about a day's march away, so if they try something in the middle of winter, he'll have a heads up. So it's a day's march away, but it's not too far away that it alleviates pressure on the British. So you've got to just stay that 18 miles the day march away.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:05:41 - 00:05:47]

Well, let's just observe too, his assumption that these people are hardy enough to march 18 miles in winter.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:05:47 - 00:05:48]

Yeah.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:05:48 - 00:05:51]

I mean, that's pretty good. That's pretty good. That's intimidating.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:05:51 - 00:05:51]

That is intimidating.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:05:51 - 00:05:55]

I don't like, you know, walking to the back shed in winter.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:05:57 - 00:06:00]

Good point. Right. Another thing is that it's a strong defensive position.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:06:00 - 00:06:00]

Yeah.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:06:00 - 00:06:13]

And most important, and this will be kind of sad later, it's the countryside, and it's supposed to be full of lots of food. You're surrounded by farms, so you should be able to feed your soldiers. Should being the operative word here.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:06:13 - 00:06:17]

An army. Was it Napoleon that said an army runs on its belly?

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:06:17 - 00:06:18]

Oh, that's good.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:06:18 - 00:06:20]

That's a Napoleon quote, I'm pretty sure.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:06:20 - 00:06:32]

Right. So he thinks this is actually the best place to winter. But the conditions. There's 9,000 men who are quartered at Valley Forge. 9,000 men go in and 7,000 will come out.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:06:32 - 00:06:35]

And just to be clear, that's the size of a small town, Right?

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:06:35 - 00:06:36]

Right. So a small town.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:06:36 - 00:06:38]

I grew up in a town of 10,000 people.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:06:38 - 00:06:39]

Right.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:06:39 - 00:06:40]

That was a lot of folks.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:06:40 - 00:07:01]

Well, and first order of the day is housing. There's literally no housing. So you need to construct 2,000 log cabins within the first couple of weeks. And Washington, how he gets his men to do this is very interesting. He basically offers an award. Right. He'll pay them $100 if they can build a log cabin with the least amount of scarce wood. Yeah. As possible. So it's 12 men to a cabin.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:07:01 - 00:07:03]

You set the Boy Scouts a competitive project.

Savannah Eccles Johnston

 [00:07:03 - 00:07:04]

Yeah.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:07:04 - 00:07:08]

You boys break up into groups and tell me who can build the best cabin with the least materials.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:07:08 - 00:07:10]

And within several weeks, they've built 2,000.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:07:10 - 00:07:14]

And you don't have to be 15 for that to work. You can be a grown man and you will still do it.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:07:14 - 00:07:32]

He understands the psychology of his soldiers. And these are 14 by 16ft cabins that are about six and a half feet high. Right. So maybe you'd be just brushing the top of your Head in one of these cabins and you're putting 12 men in there. So these are not comfortable with quarters. Right. There's bunk bed, three tiered bunk beds on each one.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:07:32 - 00:07:48]

And you can still see them. You can visit Valley Forge and they've got the. I didn't know that they do. They've got a. You can, you can park right there at them. And they've reconstructed some of the cabins best they can cool according to the original. So you can go in and see what this looks like.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:07:48 - 00:07:50]

They're living in these cabins for six months.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:07:50 - 00:07:50]

Yeah.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:[00:07:50 - 00:08:04]

And during these six months, conditions are going to deteriorate wildly from a combination of cold and some will put tents up over the top of the cabins just to try and keep out the deadly wind.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:08:04 - 00:08:04]

Insulation.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:08:05 - 00:08:25]

Just insulation. And then hunger. And we'll get to why hunger is a problem. And most importantly disease. Typhus and dysentery and smallpox. And what is remarkable about the six month period is that more didn't desert. So again, 2000 will die, probably because

Matthew Brogdon:

[00:08:25 - 00:08:27]

walking away in the snow is very uncomfortable.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:08:28 - 00:09:01]

Right. But also the level of control they maintained over the camp. So one of the stories I read was about public floggings that if you got caught stealing food, of which there's very little food, like some days, it was literally a famine. There was no food at all for these 9,000 men. If you were caught stealing food, you would be publicly flogged in front of everyone. And this is where the phrase bite the bullet comes from. Because to endure these floggings, they would literally bite down on a bullet, which gives a new something to that phrase for me to bite the bullet.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:09:01 - 00:09:06]

Wonder how many people crack their teeth on a musket ball doing this.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:09:06 - 00:09:23]

So I guess what we need to understand is why is it so bad? How did conditions get so awful so quickly at Valley Forge? We'll talk about why they stayed after, but first let's understand why it got so bad. So Congress. Let's first talk about what Congress was not doing.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:09:23 - 00:09:32]

Well, obviously Congress is on the run, more or less, and states are not sending the kind of contributions that they had promised.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:09:32 - 00:09:33]

Can't Congress force them?

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:09:34 - 00:12:04]

Well, Congress can collect contributions the Articles Confederation says on paper. And of course those are not valid yet. I mean, this is the Articles of Confederation. A new federal constitution has just been proposed. It's not going to be ratified for another four years. But even if you're operating on the basis of that document, it obligated. And the word obligation is very important. It obligated States to send contributions to Congress for the support of the army and other national purposes. Congress couldn't go collect taxes from individuals. They weren't going to show up at anybody's house and say, you made X amount of dollars last year or sold a piece of property. Where's your capital gains tax? This is not how it worked. States had the power to tax and Congress depended on them to send on some part of the corpus they collected. And that just didn't happen. States are fearful. They're very fearful of the home front. They think if we send away our resources, have the same problem with troops. States outside of New England and the Middle south are very reluctant to send troops to the support of the Continental army because they fear they would then be vulnerable at home. So there's very much a sort of home front concern. Right. Everybody trying to tend to their own business, that doesn't work very well with the Union. So you need a lot of coercive power to force states to do things that are basically in the national interest, but contrary to their own individual state interest. Big collective action problem. So, so they can't collect taxes. Congress doesn't really have much in the way of money. So even if they had someone who would sell them clothes and blankets and boots, they don't have any money to buy them. Not to mention wagons and horses to transport them with food to obtain, prepare for storage whenever you equip an army. I mean, if you've ever read any of these novels about like outfitting a naval vessel, for example, in this period, just the idea of packing away in a way that the food will keep food for six months at sea. Right. It's not unlike that. You've got to obtain large quantities of food and preserve them without modern methods of preservation. Stuff you're packing in barrels and sacks. How do you keep all that stuff from going bad? And even if you do keep it from going bad, how do you keep the rats and stuff from eating it? Can you imagine you pile up a bunch of food in winter somewhere. Imagine the vermin and insects and other stuff. So it is a nightmare to try to equip and feed an army in the 18th century. It just, it really is. And Congress is not equipped to actually meet that challenge.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:12:05 - 00:12:05]

Right.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:12:05 - 00:12:57]

Despite its best efforts, people in Congress are quite concerned with trying to do this and want to do it, but they lack funds, they lack the organizational and bureaucratic capacity to just pull it off. And so it's another version. We keep using the phrase, you know, like building the plane while you Fly it. They're trying to figure out how to do this on the fly. There's no professional army in place that's ever dealt with these issues. They've only ever had militia regiments. The typical militia regiment guy shows up with his own ammunition, his own clothing and equipment, in many cases his own food. You know, shows up with a sack of something or other. That's just a completely different. Equipping a militia regiment out of the stores of a local community is a completely different organizational problem from equipping an army that is moving around far from their own homes.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:12:58 - 00:13:03]

Right. So Congress lacks the power and the capacity to sufficiently feed clout.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:13:03 - 00:13:06]

Yeah, I could have just said that, but I felt like, no, no, no.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:13:06 - 00:15:06]

This was good to arm Congress and there's logistical problems. But what's interesting here is normally Washington would appeal to Congress and say, please, please, please, please, please. But. But eventually at Valley Forge, he breaks from that and he actually breaks down and writes a circular letter to all the states except Georgia. I'm not sure why not. Georgia in December. And this is supposed to be a wake up call to the states. He's just describing the condition of the troops. And I actually wanna read part of that letter. So he's gonna say, there is one more thing to which I would take the liberty of soliciting your most serious and constant attention, to wit, the clothing of your troops and the procuring of every possible supply in your power from time to time. For that end. If the several states exert themselves in future, in this instance, and I trust they will, I hope that the supplies they will be able to furnish in aid of those which Congress may immediately import themselves will be equal and competent to every demand. If they do not, I fear I am satisfied the troops will never be in a situation to answer the public expectation and perform the duties required of them. No pains, no efforts on the part of the states can be too great for this purpose. It is not easy to give you a just and accurate idea of the sufferings of the army at large and. And of the loss of men on this account. Were they to be minutely detailed, your feelings would be wounded and the relation would probably not be received without a degree of doubt and discredit. We had in camp on the 23rd instituted by a field return, then taken not less than 2,898 men unfit for duty by reason of their being barefoot and otherwise naked. Besides this number sufficiently distressing of itself, there are many others detained in hospitals and crowded in farmers houses for the same Causes. So in other words, there had been an attempt to raid British troops that had been nearby foraging, and they literally could not muster a force to do so because either they were barefoot, they were naked, or they were so hungry that they lacked the energy to attack a handful of British troops just outside their camp.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:15:06 - 00:15:08]

And this is compounding itself with the health issue.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:15:08 - 00:15:09]

Right.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:15:09 - 00:15:44]

Because disease is taking hold of these camps. And you can imagine the scenario. Somebody who's barefoot and sick and hungry does not want to walk far in the snow to take care of their necessary bodily functions. And so you can imagine the results. Yeah, you know, human waste piling up around the camp, around these cabins, other areas. This is compounding the issue. People are already vulnerable in a situation like this. Nobody's immune system works well in this sort of situation. And. And now you're going to have this sort of problem of public sanitation.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:15:44 - 00:16:22]

Listen to this from a Dr. Albigens. What a name. Waldo of Connecticut. Poor food, hard lodging, cold weather, fatigue, nasty clothes, nasty cookery, vomit. Half my time smoke out of my senses. The devil's in it. I can't endure it. There comes a bowl of beef soup full of burnt leaves and dirt sickish enough to make a Hector spew. There comes a soldier. His bare feet are seen through his worn out shoes. His legs nearly naked for the tattered remains of only a. Of his stockings, his breeches not sufficient to cover his nakedness, his shirt hanging in strings, his hair disheveled, his face meager. His whole appearance pictures a person forsaken and discouraged.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:16:23 - 00:16:26]

That's a rough. That's a rough, rough go.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:16:27 - 00:16:44]

He sends a circular letter begging the states to rouse themselves to do more. But his greater disappointment comes from the people of Pennsylvania. So remember, he chose Valley Forge because he said there's gonna be ample food around that we'll be able to buy. But as it turns out, I mean,

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:16:44 - 00:16:46]

these days, this is Amish country, right?

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:16:46 - 00:17:32]

Right. Pennsylvania, it's farm country. So he assumes the people will be willing to sell to us, but because of the devaluation of the currency, they're not willing to sell to the Continental Army. And instead they're going around the army and trying to sell in Philadelphia to the British Army. And Washington tries to stop them from doing this. He puts out, you know, patrols, but then they just send women and children with carts thinking that Washington won't stop them. And. And eventually Washington says we just need to hang someone publicly to stop them from. Not only are they not helping us, but they're helping our enemy. And they're doing it because of greed, because they can make more money there. They lack civic virtue. He starts to be concerned that the American people are flagging in their devotion to the cause of the revolution.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:17:32 - 00:17:35]

The profit motive is not always patriotic, right?

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:17:36 - 00:18:48]

And in fact, what he ultimately resorts to doing. Two things. One, he sends soldiers out to sabotage windmills and other farm necessities to make it so they can't be producing for the British anymore. Like, if you can't produce for us, then you can't produce for them either. And then he also signs an order allowing for the confiscation of all farm animals for the use of the Continental Army. Many of them, though, are hidden in the woods by these farmers. This is a crisis moment for Washington. Do the people lack the civic virtue, the kind of patriotic spirit necessary to see this revolution through? It's not just Congress. He starts to worry about the American people, and his spirits are really low at this point. And then enters two, I think, kind of heroes of the Valley Forge experience. And one is Martha Washington. So Martha Washington is going to join him, I think, in February of 1778. So they already have been in camp for quite some time. And she comes in to find Washington, as she explains, in a high anxiety state that she had never seen him before. This is the worst she's ever seen him. His accommodations are very poor. All of his officers are sleeping, you know, person to person on the floor of this tiny little two story home.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:18:48 - 00:18:50]

This is not surprising. This is just men without women.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:18:51 - 00:19:28]

Right. And so she comes in and manages to create kind of a space for him to be calm again. They begin doing performances, which you'll talk about in just a second of Cato. And then she also goes about and lifts the spirit of the troops. So she really earns a reputation here that they said that from morning until dark, she would be out among the soldiers, knitting them clothes and creating sewing circles and trying to minister to as many as she could day by day by day. And in that moment, kind of earns the respect of the troops as Lady Washington right there to try and keep them alive.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:19:28 - 00:20:10]

I think hosting meals for his officers, which is something that's in most military traditions, is a very important thing. The kind of esprit de corps that comes from sharing meals. I think Washington was actually reluctant to serve meals to his officers. Obviously, things are not going well in the camp. It does feel hosting a dinner when people are going hungry doesn't seem great. But by the same token, the ordinary routine of sitting down for a meal, having Polite conversation, sharing that space is really important. And she institutes that Washington calls his officers, his general staff, his military family.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:20:11 - 00:20:12]

I think he does.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:20:12 - 00:20:57]

This is the term he likes to use for them. And so that does cultivate and you know, we've mentioned already, Washington faces repeated threats to his command from his own officer corps. If things haven't been going well with Washington as commander in chief, actually he's not perceived as a brilliant commander. And in fact, a lot of very ambitious other general officers, like Charles Lee, who had actually been a British military officer, some others are jealous themselves for command of the Continental army and want to rival Washington. So actually, building a community with his own officers and his own staff is critical to him remaining in command of the Continental army, keeping their loyalty.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:20:57 - 00:21:04]

Right. And it's not just Martha Washington who's gonna play a role in this, but also a couple of other officers, wives. Right. Lucy Knox will be very important in this.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:21:04 - 00:21:05]

She's great, actually.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:21:05 - 00:21:06]

She is great.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:21:07 - 00:21:11]

The Knox's are just. They're hysterical. And her parents had been Loyalists.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:21:11 - 00:21:11]

They were.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:21:11 - 00:21:14]

When they. During the siege of Boston and disowned

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:21:14 - 00:21:15]

her because she married.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:21:15 - 00:21:17]

Her parents, left with the British.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:21:17 - 00:21:17]

Yes.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:21:17 - 00:21:17]

Yeah.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:21:17 - 00:21:40]

No, she's a lot of fun. And then Katie Green will also be there. So there's a group. And then there will also be people like Lafayette. And it will be at. In the crucible of Valley Forge that Lafayette and Washington will build this very important relationship between them. So first kind of hero is Martha Washington and of course, some of the other wives who come in to just try and bring some semblance of living.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:21:41 - 00:21:49]

That's right. Lafayette showed up with a French accent. It was just like la, c' est le bon temps brulee. You know, it was all New Orleans. It was great.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:21:49 - 00:21:54]

Why don't right now you tell a story of the Cato play? Put on just part of this, then we'll get to it.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:21:54 - 00:26:27]

And I love this story in part because art is such an important part of civic life. The stories we tell, the things we regard as noble, as beautiful, as worthy of display, performance, repetition, admiration, tell us something about our character. That's the way we tell our own story about who we are and frankly about human beings generally. So what we depict in art tells us what we think human beings are capable of and what we think the human person is so really very important, maybe more, in some ways more important to political culture and civic life. You know, a lot of times people say, you know, politics is downstream from culture. Our art is a very important part of that. And so despite the fact that Congress had made a rule in 1775 for the army specifying that there should be no theatrical performances in army camps, there always had been this attachment of an idea that the theater was a waste of time. The people engaged in it tend to be unsavory characters, all that sort of thing. But Washington, as it turns out, is actually a huge fan of the theater. Theater. And in May of 1778, they're coming out of this horrible winter. They've actually gained some of the discipline that you're going to tell us about. Some of the other people involved in that they decide to have this performance. It's put on. People vary in whether this was done outdoors to a big crowd, whether it was done indoors. Wherever it is, it's held for some substantial number of the troops. And it's a performance of Addison's Cato. Cato is a play about a Roman statesman who resists Caesar. This is before Caesar becomes emperor. Caesar had actually confronted the forces of the Senate and had defeated them. And Cato is one of the statesmen and soldiers who's leading these republican forces resisting this dictator. And Cato's play is really about a statesman adhering to and Cato's fighting alongside his son. So a lot of him giving advice to his son about things, but it's really about the conduct of a statesman and a Republican statesman in the face of defeat. This is interesting. I mean, Cato loses, Caesar wins. In fact, Cato at one point in the play gives his son advice. He says, when politics becomes corrupt and there's no place for the virtuous statesman in a republican order. Right. That's what he thinks Caesar's going to bring to Rome. He says, content thyself, my son, to be obscurely good. Right. You're just going to have to give up on fame and honor. Being virtuous is going to mean living a private life, which is just an incredible sentiment anyway. It also gets utterance to the phrase, the sentiment that I regret only that I have but one life to lose for my country, which is going to be repeated. And it had been repeated in New York by a Continental spy that had been acting on Washington's behalf. Heroic young man. Anyway, Washington has this performed in the camp and they put on this performance of Cato. It's pretty incredible. I imagine. We've got this idea of ragtag soldiers. Things are not going well. So you can imagine it's a group of soldiers fighting for Republican self government putting on a play about the sort of virtuous conduct of these Roman republican statesmen in the face of defeat. And in a way, that's a very defiant message. It's. We've built an army that we think can win, but if we don't. This is the importance of Cato is that we're fighting, and we think we can win this war, we think we can win independence, but if we don't, we will perish in the effort. We'll conduct ourselves well, and if we have to live under British rule, we'll content ourselves to live obscurely good instead of doing what these. In a way, there's an implication here, doing what these farmers have done. Just sell our goods to the British and, you know, choose profit and favor over republican virtue. We're going to choose republican virtue. It's a profound performance. It really is. And so important. Just like the women bringing society and meals and human interaction that's not just about the necessities of life into a community theater. Performance art brings in a reflection on something, the performance of a thing, the exertion of energy over something that's not just about eating and sleeping and living until the next day.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:26:28 - 00:28:19]

Right. So this performance of Cato embodies the first thing we take from Valley Forge, which was in this moment when the people of the country are failing the army, the states are failing the army, Congress is failing the army. The logistics are making it impossible to feed, clothe, and arm the army. This moment when the American Revolution could have died. Instead, it's this remarkable virtue shown by the soldiers. Those who don't die, who stay there at Valley Forge, they don't desert, they stay there. It's the character of Washington who keeps them there. That's the first lesson we learned, is suffering and endurance and ultimate triumph from these 9,000 soldiers at Valley Forge. And German discipline, well, that comes to our second thing. So our second hero walking into this. And the second thing we learn at Valley Forge is how to be a disciplined army. Not just a ragtag group of militias, but an actual disciplined army that can take on the British regulars. And into this steps Baron Friedrich von Steuben. And his name is actually much longer than that. He proliferated names. And what's fun about this character is he's not actually a baron. And basically his entire military record has been embellished by Franklin back in France, who has sent him to make him acceptable to Washington. So he comes in with, you know, full military decorations, all the medals on his chest with this amazing war horse with his sword, and he comes into camp and sees chaos. And he is there to discipline the troops. And Washington first gives him charge of just 200 troops. Like, just teach these guys how to do it. And he's so remarkably successful that Washington just keeps sending him more and more. So he's going to standardize drills and discipline. He's going to teach battlefield maneuvers and create a unified fighting force from disparate state units. But he's also just going to do some really, like, basic housekeeping. Things such as latrines have to be 300 yards away from the camp and

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:28:19 - 00:28:21]

have to move periodically.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:28:21 - 00:28:21]

Yes.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:28:21 - 00:28:23]

That's the thing about latrines. You not only have to distance them.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:28:23 - 00:28:25]

Yeah. After four days, you have to move.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:28:25 - 00:28:27]

Yeah. You have to relocate them routinely.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:28:27 - 00:28:59]

Right. You cover them after four days, they've got to be 300 yards away. And so he successfully does. He creates this. He writes this. It's called the blue book of his military command, and it's used until the Civil War in the American military. But it's at Valley Forge that von Steuben creates a disciplined fighting force. And he does it with. He's so flamboyant, this guy. I mean, he would rage and scream at these soldiers all day long in French, in German, and in English. Right. Just. He would try everything.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:28:59 - 00:29:08]

Nothing's more intimidating than a man in uniform screaming at you in a foreign language you don't understand. So just, like, trying to figure out desperately, what does he want me to do?

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:29:08 - 00:29:13]

Yeah. Literally, sun up to sundown, he would be there with the troops and just. They spoke about that.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:29:13 - 00:29:14]

I'll try this with my children.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:29:14 - 00:29:15]

Yeah, I'm sure it'll work.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:29:15 - 00:29:16]

I need to learn a foreign language

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:29:16 - 00:29:18]

to swear at the mad to them

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:29:18 - 00:29:22]

so that I can give them stern commands. And they'll think, oh, my goodness.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:29:22 - 00:29:36]

Well, just, like, unflagging energy, this guy. Right. He's brilliant at what he does, but he's also just. He is the opposite of Washington in terms of, like, demeanor, this guy. And also gets along very well with Washington, which is perhaps surprising.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:29:37 - 00:29:47]

You know, this American story, you know, it reminds me of, like, the Godfather. You know, he's like Don Corleone. You come to America to reinvent yourself. You're not a big deal in Europe,

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:29:48 - 00:29:50]

but you can be a baron in America.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:29:50 - 00:30:02]

That's right. You might not be an aristocrat in Europe, but you can be one in America. So it's funny. I mean, that is an interesting thing that Republican government gives place to individual merit in a way.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:30:02 - 00:30:03]

Yes.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:30:03 - 00:30:10]

I mean, it really is the sort of the meritocracy vision, in a way of republican government. You don't inherit your influence.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:30:10 - 00:30:10]

Right.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:30:11 - 00:30:16]

You need a letter from Ben Franklin and that's it. A convincing military uniform.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:30:16 - 00:30:28]

Right. Well, and Alexander Hamilton could do it. And speaking of Ben Franklin, I mean, at this point, he has sent von Steuben and he sent Tom Payne across as well. He's the guy to meet people and send them to America to be successful.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:30:28 - 00:30:30]

Yeah. Payne has success for a while.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:30:30 - 00:30:37]

Well, successful at the beginning. We'll take it. Von Steuben later will be awarded a bunch of land in America in gratitude.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:30:39 - 00:30:40]

Does he have progeny still?

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:30:41 - 00:31:43]

No. This is part of his very flamboyant background. He gives it to his adopted sons, who may or may not have been his lovers. So that's who he passes it down to. He's a great character. This is one of our most fun characters in American history. So then another thing is going to happen to the army. So there's real concern that the army, because they've lost 2,000 people by the end of Valley Forge, won't have enough troops to actually, even if they're disciplined, there won't be enough of them to do anything. And so this is going to lead to the admission of the first black soldiers in the Continental Army. And this first comes from Rhode island, where Rhode island promises freedom to any black individuals, any black men in Rhode island who are willing to serve in the Continental Army. In Connecticut, a slave owner can avoid being sent to the Continental army if he sends his slave in his stead. So each state kind of does a different thing, but it leads to 5% of the continental army being made up of black soldiers who acquit themselves phenomenally in the war. And Von Steuben actually speaks about them as some of the best soldiers in terms of discipline and decorum.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:31:43 - 00:33:20]

But I was going to say this brings about a personal transformation for Washington. By all accounts, Washington starts when Washington becomes commander in Chief in 1775. He hasn't expressed. We don't know of any particular misgivings about slavery. He's a slaveholder of a large plantation, and at some point between him becoming commander in chief and his exit from the Continental army, he embraces an opposition to slavery, a determination to. He wants to see it. He wants to see emancipation adopted in Virginia and works for that purpose in the 1790s, and does. In fact, he's not quite unique, but almost unique among the slaveholders in the founding generation, having manumitted all those slaves. It was within his Power to do so. And so Washington undergoes that transformation. And the accounts of that transformation suggest that it is his encounters with and his experience with black Americans in the revolution that does this. The first episode of that's actually with the poet Phillis Wheatley, who writes a poem about him. This is a fascinating thing. She writes a poem about him that is published in Virginia newspapers under her name. And it's observed that she is a black woman in New England. She publishes this. Subsequently, a volume of her poems are written. She sends a copy to Washington with a letter. It's a poem in praise of him. And he responds to her with a polite letter. This idea that George Washington, the largest landowner, you know, largest plantation owner in Virginia.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:33:20 - 00:33:21]

No, that's George Mason.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:33:21 - 00:33:21]

Mason is.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:33:21 - 00:33:22]

Yeah, that's George Mason.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:33:23 - 00:33:26]

Well, I thought by the time he got Custis. Mary Custis's.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:33:26 - 00:33:28]

No, I think it's George Mason still or Martha Custis.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:33:28 - 00:33:30]

Okay. But one of the largest stripped him.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:33:30 - 00:33:31]

One of the largest, yeah.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:33:31 - 00:33:58]

All right. But the fact that he writes correspondence and suggests to her that he would love to meet her. And the story is that she visits his headquarters in Boston during the siege of Boston. She visits him in 1776. But he's had this encounter. He's had a polite and public correspondence because he knows his letter's gonna be published. Her letter was published. So that's a sort of first step. And then with the black enlistments in the Continental army, he undergoes the shift in opinion.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:33:59 - 00:34:41]

And it's because of the suffering, the shared suffering. Right. So Washington becomes deeply attached to his soldiers, especially at Valley Forge. He is very openly protective of them, et cetera. And I think seeing the virtue of his soldiers in the moment when the Revolution seems to be flagging everywhere else and these black soldiers, part of that begins to change his mind. And one of the important letters he will send after the enlistment of black soldiers, he'll send it to the man who is kind of the guardian of his estate back at Mount Vernon. And it will be a command that no slaves will be sold against their will from that point on. Which means it'll be very hard to sell at all at that point because their families are there.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:34:41 - 00:35:17]

Washington didn't like New Englanders. Whenever he got to Boston, he had a very hard time. He's rowdy New Englanders. They offended his sense of decorum. He didn't particularly like them. He didn't think they were disciplined. And so you could say if he could get used to these rowdy working class New Englanders, then He could get used to anybody. Right. But he does, you know, personal relationships, this is. Sometimes we lose this in the sort of the debates that people have over these things. But in terms of Washington's story, it seems like it's not moral suasion, it's not philosophical debate. It's his encounter with other human beings.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:35:17 - 00:35:17]

Right.

Matthew Brogdon: 

[00:35:18 - 00:35:18]

That does this.

Savannah Eccles Johnston:

[00:35:18 - 00:36:13]

Right. So if we were to wrap up what we learned from Valley Forge one, again, it's this iconic story of immense suffering and endurance and eventual triumph for these soldiers. It's a moment that teaches us just how weak Congress was. It shows kind of a flagging support among the American people, but it also creates a disciplined and really virtuous army. Right. What emerges from Valley Forge is not the same as what went into Valley Forge. Right. They've really been tested in the. In the fires, as it were, and come out a stronger fighting force that will be more successful in battle after Valley Forge, largely thanks to the discipline of von Steuben, and provides this moment that Americans can look back on and reflect on of the pain of Valley Forge and also the success Valley Forge and what civic virtue looks like.

Outro: 

[00:36:15 - 00:36:56]

The Constitution is more than parchment under glass at the National Archives. It's a blueprint for American self government that shapes every part of our civic life, from the rights we cherish to the laws we live under. We explore the ongoing battle over the meaning and relevance of America's founding document. This Constitution will equip you to engage the most pressing political questions of our time. Join us every two weeks as we hash out constitutional questions together. This podcast is ordained and established by the Center for Constitutional Studies at Utah Valley University, the home of Utah's Civic Thought and Leadership Initiative.