Suits and Boots | The Sustainable Business Podcast

Rock Solid Returns | Financing the Future of Mining

• Season 1 • Episode 23

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This podcast covers the challenges of financing mining projects and accelerating development timelines by attracting capital. 

The speakers discuss navigating regulatory hurdles, and using innovative financing strategies to bring projects to fruition more efficiently.

Speakers include:

  • Sylvain Eckert | Partner - Infravia Capital Partners
  • Assheton Stewart Carter | Executive Chair & Founder, TDi Sustainability

This episode is part of the TDi Sustainability special series of podcasts produced in advance of the 2025 Resourcing Tomorrow event that will take place in London between 2-4 December. Find out more about the event>

Assheton Carter:

Hello and welcome to this special edition of Suits and Boots, the TDI podcast series in conjunction with Resourcing Tomorrow. In this series, speakers at this year's Resourcing Tomorrow event discuss some of the key themes that will be covered at the conference. I'm Ashley Stewart Carter, Executive Chair at TDI Sustainability, and your host for today. So today we're getting into one of the most pressing topics in the industry: how to unlock capital, accelerate development timelines, and build strong partnerships with financiers that drive responsible mining and long-term value. As the global demand for critical minerals accelerates, the relationships between businesses along phases of supply chains have become closer, I would say, or even systemic. They're more interested in how minerals flow and the nature of off-take agreements and for value creation along the whole trading chain. With this, we've also seen the need for innovative, efficient, and responsible financing modalities to support sustainable mining development. This is what we'll discuss today. In particular, we're going to explore strategies to extract to attract investment across the mining lifecycle, deal flow, from exploration to production. How regulatory and ESG, yes, it does still exist, trends are reshaping risk perception, and the financing modalities that are helping projects overcome traditional barriers to access capital and meet their production projections responsibly. I am delighted today to be joined by someone with deep expertise in these topics, Sylvain Eckhart, partner at Infravia Capital Partners, a leading European private equity firm focused on infrastructure, technology, and critical minerals. With more than 20 years in metals and mining, including his previous role as head of the metals and mining team at Netixis Global, Silvain brings a wealth of insight into capital markets, mining finance, and the future of resource development. His passion for rocks, metals, and responsible commodity production makes him an ideal guest for today's conversation. Welcome, Sylvain, and thank you for joining us today. Well, I thought we'd start um on setting the scene. Um so I want to have to start a conversation with your view on the big picture, the general picture around investment in mining. Um, how are the investors' attitudes towards mining, they're prioritized in terms of projects and minerals and the risk appetite evolving for investment, especially in light of the global energy transition and the critical minerals race? A couple of years ago, the number of um private equity um firms, for example, and then corporate investors into mining was really kind of quite small, and I thought it was sort of dwindling, certainly in Western markets. Um, but now there are more. So what's happening?

Sylvain Eckert:

So it goes without saying that uh everyone understands that the tomorrow is electric. Actually, today today is already electric, but uh but uh tomorrow even uh even more. And uh more electricity uh leads to more metals consumption overall, um just to produce electricity and to be able to store it and transport it, etc. etc. And uh for the past two, three years we have seen noticeable changes in the approach of some investors to the sector, especially in the uh in the European Union. The mining and metal sector is essentially a sector that has been abandoned by uh Europe some four decades ago. Uh some countries uh in some countries were more accurate than in than in others, uh, and it's been capital starved ever ever since, uh especially. And we've discussed uh uh with a lot of European investors and we spent a lot of time to educate uh the investor based in France and in Europe on the sector. And what we've seen recently is a dramatic shift in the approach because we we started to receive uh inbound interest for the uh for the sector for the past years or so. There's no debate that one needs more metal, people understand that, everyone understands the rationale of uh the setting up a fund to invest into the critical metals value chain. But for uh those uh those investors in uh in EU specifically, this is something new and this is that is difficult to uh to apprehend. And uh but but what we've seen is that uh we're passed beyond the debate whether this was warranted or not, and we're seeing uh people uh trying to fit in trying to figure out how they could fit that uh specific uh specific asset class in the in the strategy. And I mentioned it's not an asset class per se at the moment because there's not enough player, and but there will be more, and we strongly believe that this will become an asset class on its own, like the infra uh infrastructure space uh evolved over the past 20 years.

Assheton Carter:

Right. So you said that it's it's a it is it is a specialist field, isn't it? I mean, I I've been working in minerals and metals for um 30 years, and the world is quite small, and I think that's one thing that gave investors caution because they felt they couldn't understand it. So it sounds like you had to do quite a lot of um education to explain how this the system works. But as I understand it, the infraVir isn't just investing in critical minerals, it's investing in the whole value chain where it can in the technology and the infrastructure as well. Can you tell us a little bit about your vision for this strategy and how it's positioned to respond to the evolving needs for both investors and the energy transition? What makes it a bit different from traditional mining investment modalities?

Sylvain Eckert:

Yeah, so you rightfully said that uh Infravia not only invests into critical metals, uh actually the at the inception in Infravia is an infrastructure fund and an infrastructure strategy, and that's the locomotive and the flagship or Infravia. Um we made an investment a few years ago in uh in a company recycling uh bottom ash from incinerators and producing metals, and that was the first foray of Infravia into the into the metal space. But really, the idea or the thinking was that uh in order to build all those infrastructures and all the energy, all the data centers, etc. etc., this is going to be metal intensive, and it makes a lot of sense then to move into uh and deploy and set up a strategy specifically dedicated to uh to critical metal. So we do in that critical metal strategy, we invest across the value chain, so from extraction, refining, and recycling globally across the across the planet. Uh I will probably say it a few times on that uh interview, but uh you don't negotiate with the geology, the good deposits are where they are, and you have to uh to scout for them. The scope of our investment is the critical raw materials list of the uh of the EU. Uh so uh typically doesn't include uh precious uh precious metals. It's uh got 34 uh metals, some of them are uh relatively liquid and uh easy, some other are more niche and uh small market. We are a 25 year uh fund, so we are patient capital, we have the time to build mine. We are not inactive or passive investors, we will uh accompany the development of the asset that we invest in to develop, to build platforms, to develop new mines, new refining capabilities in the critical metal space. Um we actually one conviction that we have is that investing into the critical metal space, despite the uh impact of those additional mines, is a net benefit for the planet because all of the mines that we'll invest in, all the refining capacities, the recycling capacity, everything that we'll invest in will ultimately displace coal, and overall the impact on the planet is going to be uh a net uh a net positive. We have also quite a unique setup uh where we have money from the French government, yet we are a fully private fund with a govern with fully private governance. So the the the the government has no say in our investment decision. It um we're managing its money and that's uh that's all. We the idea of the French government actually was quite smart. It was we are seeding that strategy with uh public money, but we expect private capital to be raised alongside uh alongside the money that we're injecting into that strategy. And the manager, so ourselves in Fravia, its duty is to deliver performance to attract more capital into a capital-starved industry. So our primary goal is to deliver performance for uh for clients, including the French government, but also our private client, and accompany the uh projects that are above all profitable, best in class in terms of the ESG, and provide a benefit to the uh to the European industry.

Assheton Carter:

That's great to hear about the um the patient investing. You know, if I look at where the um the processing capacity is um and the recycling capacity, that's not yet really in the OECD countries, but is kind of highly concentrated in in China. So you really are looking at a long-term play to build that capacity, I guess, outside of those regions. Um, so does that affect your the expectations for you know cash flow and returns and building returns into the fund?

Sylvain Eckert:

No, so so so so as I said, our primary goal is to deliver performance to our uh investors, right? Um and that's a very necessary conditions to be able to attract the amount of capital that is required to develop the sector. If if we don't do that, we'll have less capital and we'll have less capabilities to develop the sectors and to provide options for the downstream industries. Uh because as you mentioned, the fact that these industries at the moment are highly concentrated basically uh poses a risk, uh systemic risk to the to the rest of the uh to the rest of the uh downstream players and to the consumers. So it's important to be able to build uh alternative optionality, resiliency into this value chain, but not uh not at the expense of uh of performance. So we're a long-term fund, we're looking for good and resilient assets above all that will be uh profitable and performing well. So it's uh it's uh it's a complicated and long process to screen all of the assets, determine which are the better ones, which are the ones that deserve uh to be uh invested in in in order to build those value chains and build resilience and optionality for the for the end consumers.

Assheton Carter:

And another complicated aspect of the world is the ESG sustainability and traceability um um aspects. Even though the um EU is looking to make that a bit easier for big business, it's quite a sticky trend that uh more and more ESG safeguards are expected. And you're dealing not with one sector but with with several. And also uh a lot of those ESG standards now require um traceability um to kind of point of origin. So are you looking at how you can build whole systems, or are you looking more kind of fractionally at different segments? And how do these ESG standards, expectations, and the traceability pieces play into your um decision making?

Sylvain Eckert:

Yeah, so I'll start with the integrated versus uh non-integrated part of your question. The idea for us is to build systems. The question is can we do that in parallel or does that does it have to have to be uh to be sequential? And I'll come back to that uh a bit later. In terms of ESG, uh we've designed a framework that is quite uh comprehensive. It's based on uh the applicable standard, but we we go a bit uh beyond that. Um and this is something that obviously we have we have been discussing with our uh with our investors. It was quite key to give confidence to our investors that the perception that they had of the sector would be addressed by the fact that they would be investing uh in someone that would do things properly and methodically from uh from that perspective. So it encompasses obviously all the duty of care when it comes to uh to making sure that we uh are monitoring what's up what happens in terms of uh where where we're sourcing feedstock from uh for uh refining assets and etc. etc. Uh which brings me to the to the sequential versus uh versus parallel uh parallel aspect of the questions. At the moment, effectively uh the um bottleneck in those value chains is mostly through the uh through the refining. But what we found out uh during the past uh year of scooting assets, etc. etc., is that it's uh quite challenging at the moment to build a standalone uh refinery in uh in Europe if you can't agree, if you uh can't agree with mining producers to get the feedstock, and if you can't agree with the clients to secure a long-term oftake. So the approach that we're taking at the moment is do things sequentially, meaning we are focusing first on securing metals unit from mining assets, so extraction, and then that will or that should completely unlock the uh the refining part. Having secured uh metal units will allow for refinery to be built and then to develop a complete uh complete system. And that also addresses the um uh um issue which is not an issue, but that addresses the the traceability aspect. We will have a vision through the value chain throughout our investments.

Assheton Carter:

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Get hold of the commodity first, get hold of the metals, and then figure out how it's going to be transformed. And um maybe there's some other regions as well, such as the Middle East, that could play a part in the value chain. Just going back to um mining for a minute, the one of the kind of the most difficult things, it seems, as long as I've been doing this, is for juniors to raise money. And you know, I spent quite a time in Africa and um speaking to junior minders there, and they're obviously always on the hunt for um capital and capital raise, um, and they find it more and more difficult. And there's very few funds, eBRD does it um uh from a DFI point of view, which invests into juniors but not many others. Um, and so they they tend to look towards um China. What can organizations like you do for these um junior, these entrepreneurs, early stage risk takers uh to make their life easier and get more control of some of these minerals?

Sylvain Eckert:

Yeah, so unfortunately we won't be the solution for them because our artisan of investment is to deploy meaningful amount of capital uh to enable production. So we're investing more uh after the the the feasibility study is is is released. Uh but that's actually a point that uh that has been raised uh a number of times and for which there's no uh simple uh simple solution. That said, um there is at the moment a large stock of projects uh that are uh that have uh identified resources, uh that have uh made a scoping study uh or that have been identified. And the issue for me is less for this junior to find money to finance more exploration, but it's actually how do you progress a project through the PFS or BFS uh stage. Typically, a BFS uh will uh will cost uh back of the envelope uh 10% of the overall uh of the overall contemplated uh CAPEC. So if you uh if your project uh and critical minerals project, it's not unusual to have uh to have CAPEX which are order of magnitude, 1 billion type thing. That means that you need to spend give or take uh in excess of uh 50 million, between 50 million and 100 million on a feasibility study. So where do you do where do you find that money? That is uh that is the question that actually one of the areas that the EU is uh is contemplating to uh to investigate, as you mentioned, the EBRD, uh EBRD does it. There are other toolbox uh within the EU to try and speed up uh and enable those uh those projects uh to get access to funding. That being said, uh good project, outstanding project when you don't negotiate with the RG, when you when when a good project is identified, it generally has no problem finding uh uh adequate uh funding mechanism and will attract uh investors uh no matter what. Um the issue is that uh there's a lot of projects that are not super outstanding, that are average, that are decent, etc. etc. etc. And um how do you how do you how do you progress those projects so that they are readily um investable and ready to be put into production when when they are required, when the mining cycle calls them uh up on. Um and at the moment uh it's difficult because we are say it we're facing an oversupply situation in most of the critical metals, which doesn't help with uh mobilizing uh um investment.

Assheton Carter:

Got it. So focus on quality, focus on the fundamentals, and the rest, the rest should follow. Um but something you said there about there are some other organizations which um are looking at that earlier stage. And I'm you know, I I guess from my perspective or from some people's perspective, that means there's an opportunity for partnership where you can bring different you can bring different things to mineral development. What do you think about kind of partnerships? There's a lot of talk about public-private partnerships, but they're not straightforward. They're they're quite hard to put together when you have different theses and um different ways of working. But do you think there's room for groups like Vinfrevere to work with some of the DFIs or some other um funding mechanisms and modalities to uh uh reach your goals?

Sylvain Eckert:

Yeah, no, no, certainly. I mean, we we're quite flexible uh when when it comes to uh finding solutions to fast track and develop projects. Uh obviously we we we we have money from uh from a public institution, so from the from the French government. We've uh we've been discussing a lot uh within the EU and the various uh various tools in the EU uh toolbox. Um there are other in the French government other other uh other uh means of uh of uh funding critical raw materials projects that are that are available and that will rely uh mainly on public funding. Uh the other EU governments are also initiatives which obviously uh we've uh we've engaged with and were ready to partner with. I mean if that makes sense, uh you could bring the funds from different EU governments in order to deploy more effectively and fast track uh the development of uh those critical North projects. And when you go to uh outside of uh Europe in jurisdictions where there's uh less appetite, obviously relying on DFIs is something that has proven to be uh to be uh extremely uh powerful. Um I'm an ex-banker, so so I used to uh work with uh notably the IFC in um in countries where the financing that the financing that were put in place enabled very significant uh industrial developments. So yes, that's certainly something that's uh on the table and something that we uh that we are looking at when we're considering an investment, either on the equity front but also on the uh financing uh project financing fund.

Assheton Carter:

But I think your kind of point earlier on was that um in the end of the day, Infravier is a it doesn't have constraints placed on it by the government, the French government in this case, and it is privately um run. And I I I I guess what you're saying there is that you know the fund isn't there to advance industrial strategy of any particular country or there to invest and get the return that is expected by the government.

Sylvain Eckert:

No, we yes, we are here to make sure that the capital gets attracted by the sector and that more capital will flow into the sector because it's a profitable sector, and basically more capital means uh more optionality, more resilience, and uh and uh and overall um something better off for the end users, the consumers, you and myself when we're buying an electric car. Absolutely.

Assheton Carter:

And um so just going back to these potentially these partnerships or the interests in the public sector, um generally and your experience over the last couple of decades. Have you seen some more innovative models, modalities for minerals and metals, you know, green bonds or royalty financing, streaming, blended finance, all these types of things, or it has it remained quite constant?

Sylvain Eckert:

Yeah, no, I mean that's that's constant innovation in the sector, and people uh do do get uh do get uh creative uh quite uh uh uh in quite a number of ways. Um obviously some yeah it's it's not new anymore, but uh but uh royalties and streams were uh were uh something that uh that uh developed quite a lot uh over the past decades, probably probably even uh even uh a couple of uh a couple of uh decades uh now. So that that that's been quite innovative, that has become mainstream. That's a super useful tool to have in the toolbox. Uh off-tech financing is something that's uh also quite uh attractive, and we've seen uh obviously large traders but also uh OEMs, uh automakers uh um entering into uh being capable of financing uh project and CapEx through through that uh through that uh mechanism. Uh you mentioned uh green bonds, and that's something that the sector has not used, or at least the the new projects have not used extensively for the time being, but that's uh that could be something uh that that ramp up in the uh in the next while. There are some areas where where the bond market is quite developed. I mean the typically the Nordic bond market is uh is quite interesting for the sectors if uh your project qualifies and have the proper characteristics to be able to raise money on those uh on uh on those markets. And we've seen recently some issuance of uh of convertible notes uh for uh for uh for uh project developers in the in the Uranum space notably. So all these uh less dilutive instruments uh compared with the traditional equity are something that is very useful and and that we'll look into uh when we're considering uh our investment. Uh one important thing uh that I think the sector needs to uh need to address in terms of innovation is uh around price discovery and price risk mitigation when it comes to critical to critical raw materials. There's very few of those critical metals that are listed on exchanges such as the LME. There are some areas where where there's question about the price discovery itself, and uh price risk mitigation mechanism to stabilize the the cash flow one way or another could have a drastic impact on the appetite from uh lenders or from uh from debt finance to uh to enter into the into the sector. So there's a trade-off between uh availability of liquidity and um tools to stabilize the cash flow and mitigating the price risk, essentially.

Assheton Carter:

Yeah, I think that's a very important point actually. I think that's kind of really clear that you know there aren't many exchanges for there aren't exchanges for many of these many of these minerals, so um that adds an extra complexity. Something that's kind of came to mind when you're talking about the um innovative models and how that's you know people are quick to respond. I'm not sure if it's a trend, but there's you know a few downstream companies, and I'm thinking of um Cobalt with the K, for example, who have actually invested upstream into mines. Um, you know, and I guess you could say going back to the last century, this is what downstream companies used to do to try and control the supply chains. Do you see that as a thing that you have some of these auto companies or downstream companies beginning to invest? I'm I remember um the former CEO of Glenn Corps saying, welcome that auto companies invest in in into mining.

Sylvain Eckert:

Yeah, no, that that's that's quite interesting, and certainly that's something that's not unheard of, but that was kind of uh dates that's way back at the at the beginning of the century, uh, etc. Uh actually this is something that it should be carefully uh considered because on the one hand you could argue that these companies do not necessarily have the skill set to make the the right the right selection in terms of assets and uh and uh and what they what they actually uh uh need to uh vertically integrate. Uh but at the same time, uh there is a need for uh for more vertical integration. Uh because in the Western world, if you uh are separating too much the various uh parts of the of the value chain, you end up with something that is very flexible but somewhat uh somewhat inefficient. So uh as I was saying, the idea for us is to develop platforms that have a certain level of uh vertical uh vertical integration, the boundary of which can be uh can be uh can be discussed, but it would make sense to for miners to integrate downstream to some extent to be able to serve um their customers with the uh with the uh with the um material that they need, and for the uh end users to integrate upstream to make sure that they are controlling and the opportunity in terms of uh of uh their uh their their supplies. So at which point do they meet is a question that uh that can be uh that can be debated uh at uh at length. But certainly this is something that we do see developing more in the in the coming years in order to foster the development of those value chains.

Assheton Carter:

And I guess that another consideration in such a scenario is expectations about exit, where the downstream might be looking to secure surety of supply in the long term. When if you're an investor, obviously there's some point which you want to exit. So how do you manage how do you manage those potentially dueling expectations?

Sylvain Eckert:

Yeah. Yeah, so that's that's why we've uh we've we have a 25 years uh fund to be able to uh exit at the appropriate uh appropriate time. I'm not saying we're not looking for exit, we will be looking uh we will be looking for exit, but we are also cognizant that um we need uh time and flexibility when it comes to uh when it comes to that. Um what we believe is that if more capital is brought to the sector, more liquidity will develop, an asset class will develop, and the the tradable asset or the trade-off asset will uh will uh increase, making it just a virtuous uh circle of capital flowing into the sector and assets being capable of rotate like they do in other in other in other asset classes. That's that's essentially it. Um the amount of capital that is required to meet the goals of the energy transition are so important that there's no uh way uh this sectors can be developed without more capital flowing into it and more liquidity and more tradable assets uh becoming uh becoming the norm.

Assheton Carter:

Another thing which came to mind when you're talking about innovation and now exit is um there's a really interesting um report, which I'm sure you've seen, came out a couple months ago, and I've been speaking to the team at BMP about it, which is looking at the decommissioning um liabilities and how they factor that into their decisions. And we're doing some work at the moment for mining 2030 on legacy. Um so I guess there's a couple of questions there is y do you look at um those potential decommissioning legacy and um in your decisions and the other thing that BMP said they're now considering is are there some innovative models such as bonds for closure and decommissioning, um which for the underlying assets for which could be the development of um alternative infrastructure where mine once was?

Sylvain Eckert:

Yeah, that's super interesting and uh uh uh super super interesting question. So from our standpoint, uh our ESG framework, our due diligence framework, and the way we operate is such that we are planning for closures when we invest. I mean we won't invest into an asset when we don't know how it's going to be run and how it's going to be closed and make sure that um we we have visibility on that uh at uh at inception. When it comes to legacy sites, uh and when it comes to wastes more uh more generally, today's waste maybe tomorrow resources. And we've seen that in the sector uh in a number of occasions with waste piles being reworked a number of uh a number of times and and and disposed more properly after after after some more value had been extracted from uh from there. Actually, one of the success of the China industrialization and development of critical metal value chain was their capability to have a waste stream becoming the resource of another industry. That's evident for the LFP supply chain development, where uh waste from the titanium pigment industry becomes a feedstock for the uh LFP batteries. That's uh also evident for the sodium sulfate issue, which is something uh that uh is somewhat uh not in all cases, but in some cases a resource or feedstock for other industries in China, whereas in Europe this is the liability and the cost of uh of disposal. So thinking about uh waste as potential resources for the future is some something uh something important and that needs to be uh to be considered. Uh when it comes to old mining sites, yeah, obviously the grades, especially in Europe, the grades of uh the orbodies that were mined uh tens uh decades ago is such that there's there's potential to extract more minerals from those waste spies, and in some instances there's probably possibility to extract some uh some of the niche metals that I was referring to in the sort in the list of the 34 metals from the uh from the European Union, like uh gallium, germanium, and those kind of things. Uh there surely are resources of those metals in the West in the tailings dump of uh of uh of Western Europe.

Assheton Carter:

Um that's a nice segue to another kind of related topic, which is about um the local license to operate and um you know building trust with communities around new mineral developments. And you know, we talked about ESG safeguard standards, and that's more to do with what happens inside inside the fence and what's an acceptable standard. But the criticism often leveled at mining is that the promise of jobs and development is seldom fulfilled, at least not locally. Um, and that I think is becoming even harder as we get automation at mines too. Um, and that can translate into resistance and difficulties in getting uh the license to operate. And you know, for sure that that um can become very stark um disparity when you go to emerging markets, but it's also happening with inside the OECD. Witness what's happened at the Yadar mine, um, although there are special circumstances there. Um so I guess there's an ambition here to invest into more mines, bring more capital, look at the fundamentals, but how about the investment of ensuring that we can win local license to operate so we can actually get those minerals out of the ground? And how do we go about doing that? Is that partnerships? Because you know, mining companies dig holes, transform metals and get them to market, they're not development agencies. What are your thoughts about that and how we resolve it?

Sylvain Eckert:

So uh I think that the social license to operate and getting more capital into the sectors are actually two facets of the same uh of the same issue, which is largely the reputation or the bad reputation that the sector has in the uh notably in the in the western uh Western world. Uh as I said, um mining was essentially uh abandoned in Europe 40 years ago, 1984 or 1985, uh with some nuances, but uh uh but uh but that's essentially around that date that uh a number of governments decided to to close their mining, their mining uh mining operations. And um the most of the people uh at the moment, including the investors, do think as mines as something that is uh dirty, dangerous, uh like pretty much it was. I mean there's a there's a famous uh novel in French called Germinal, which depicts the the work at uh the underground coal mines um when on or about the time that there was a courier tragedy, which was the worst uh mining accident in uh in France in the early 20th century. And people would read that at school and have the mind that uh would have in their mind that a mine is something that's intrinsically bad. Uh so getting the social license is also about uh depicting the sector is uh in a in another way. So that's that's uh that broad perspective that the sector is actually something as you you you mentioned, automation, etc. etc. etc. People do not realize that today you could operate a scoop tram in an underground mine from your uh from your office in uh in Paris. Um that's uh stretching it a little bit, but that's uh within the realm uh of possibilities. So there's a lot of work to be done on that uh image of the sector more globally. Specifically uh when it comes to projects that want to get uh to get uh developed. Um the um way to do is always the same. Start engagement early. It's never too early to start engaging with local communities and administration, tell them what you want to do, say what you do and do what you say. Uh consistency is key to build long-term trust. Um get some people of the community on board and uh uh be have them in charge of your engagement with the community. And above all, be transparent. Uh be transparent, uh provide uh facts, provide data, continue to continuously engage with uh local stakeholders, and uh don't hesitate to communicate. You don't communicate too much. You have to set up a robust communication system in place and also agreement mechanism so that people can raise their uh their their concerns. Um that's that's how from a very broad perspective and very specific perspective, I think one should uh one should acquire that social license to uh to operate.

Assheton Carter:

Great. Um coming almost to the end of the session now, to close this um session, we want to play a little word and response game. And what we do here is I'll give you a couple of words and then whatever comes to mind in a sentence, you respond. So the first one of those is critical minerals.

Sylvain Eckert:

Everyone's got a different definition of what's a critical mineral.

Assheton Carter:

Good. The next one is responsible mining.

Sylvain Eckert:

It exists, it's a it's a reality today. And we should uh we should uh um communicate more on that fact.

Assheton Carter:

I love that response. That's a great response. And the last one to finish the session, circularity. Uh the future of mining. Also a great response. Um look, so that thanks very much for um the time you spent with us today. It's been absolutely, absolutely fascinating. Um I'm really looking forward now to the session and uh meeting you again at the um Resourcing Tomorrow um conference later. For our audience, please check out the rest of this special series Resourcing Tomorrow Podcast on the TDI Suits and Boots podcast channel. We hope to see you all at this year's event where the conversation on financing, investing, and fast tracking mining projects will be continued, and you can hear more on today's topic from Sylvan. Thanks for listening.