Through the Door: The Insider's Perspective on Running a Business

Building a Multigenerational Legacy

• Nevada State Bank • Episode 4

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Thomas A. Thomas, Managing Partner of Thomas & Mack Co., joins Megan to share his invaluable tips for enduring business success. Discover how strategic thinking, conservative debt management, and building partnerships based on shared values have driven his remarkable career. With an extensive background in banking, Thomas serves on NSB's Advisory Board. Don't miss his advice and insights on this must-listen episode of "Through the Door."

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Hello and welcome to "Welcome Through the Door" the insider's perspective on running a business. I'm Miss Comfort, small business manager at your at a state bank. And this is a podcast where we get to interview you, Nevada business owners, owner, business leaders and serial entrepreneurs and learn from them through their experiences and decisions that they've made along the way running a companies in Nevada. So, so with that being said, I am very honored to have my next guest here. His name is Tom Thomas. He's the managing partner, owner Thomas and Mac.(...) A company that really needs no introduction if you have been in Las Vegas or in Nevada for any period of time, you've most likely been in and driven around and have seen many of the properties that they have played a hand in creating. So, thank you so much Tom for being here Terry. Thank you Megan. So we typically start these podcasts off just learning a little bit about you and the origin story of Thomas Talk and how you've kind of arrived at the role that we have today as managing partner. So can you tell us a little about that? Sure.

 

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The Thomas Mac story began in 1954 for my father Perry Thomas, or I'm a son's Vegas at Jerry Mac and his father's fate Mac.

 

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And at the time my father came here to help us start up a bank called Bank of Las Vegas. Nate Mac was the chairman of the board.

 

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And through interaction,(...) my father, Jerry Mac got to know each other and I did a form of partnership.

 

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And that partnership was the creation of Thomas and Mac company, which I originally created as an office in a company in 1991 at the time that we got out of the banking business. That's what we really did as a family for three and a half, four decades in Vegas. So that is actually a very interesting story. I kind of talked a little bit about that. But I would like for you to care because, you know, Las Vegas gaming, you know, the Mecca of really kind of now kind of entertainment. But really this was like was a gaming casino hospitality town.(...) Can you share a little bit about some of the things that actually a family had a hand in doing for the Las Vegas trip, like what we see today? When my dad came in the mid-fifties commercial banks, we're not making loans to own the gaming industry because of the visitation of the end of the owners.

 

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Father's outlook on that was that the gaming industry was legal.(...) It was regulated in the state. It was the largest industry, the largest investor. And he felt that a commercial bank had an obligation to loan to any business that was legal and often on such a grand scale as gaming.

 

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So he started making loans. He was the first commercial banker to really focus and analyze in making loans to the industry. He focused on making loans for their hotel rooms and their rooms and their restaurants to expand the scale, turn them from what originally really small casinos, hotels into full, full-gauged resorts.

 

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And that grew through the town. Yeah. Well, and it's interesting because he actually worked on, like you mentioned, the legislation to kind of change it from being, you know, independently licensed by individuals to actually allow corporations to come in and actually enact gaming licenses. Exactly. One of the concerns my friends had, first for scale, the gaming industry,(...) is that Nevada required every owner of the casino to be individually licensed, which prohibited corporate owners from being licensed. So he worked with the legislature in the six cities and eventually was able to convince not only the legislature, but really more importantly, convince all of the hotel owners that this would be a good thing. The last one happened to be Bill Herr. Bill, who was really just operating in Northern Nevada at the time. And he had only had influence with the Northern Nevada-led legislature. Yeah. So once Bill Herr said, "I'm good. I'm corporations come into town," that helped then Governor Paul Lapault hold a special legislative session.

 

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And the laws were changed and immediately groups like Hilton,

 

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Del Web Corp, others came into town. It had a secondary benefit and that was, it really, really needed the mob influence(...) in any of the internal structure of the gaming industry. Yeah. And it legit lives it even more. Very much so. So, yeah. So tell us more about, you said you actually formed Thomas Talk to be more of a legitimate company. It sounds like maybe it was more of just like a partnership that was like an agreement between the two. Yeah, very much. So from the very beginning, my father and Jerry Mack decided that they were going to do all of their investments on a 50-50 basis. So they'd buy a piece of property and they would be tenants in common on a 50-50 basis.(...) We didn't have an structured company, company, Thomas and Mack company,(...) until we merged what was then Valley Bank of Nevada, the bank that followed Bank of Las Vegas. We merged it with Bank of America in the early 90s. And at the time, I left the bank and formed the Thomas and Mack company as an official limited liability company

 

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to formalize our partnership and also to start real estate development in a more earnest and more organized van ice and for the two families. Okay. Nice. So you kind of just created more structure, if you will. Focus more on what you guys you got leaning into at the time, which is the divestment. Yeah, very much. We had been buying and selling land in the Las Vegas for a number of decades. But we typically wouldn't have done that because that would put us in common with individuals that we were loaning money to as a bank. Oh, okay. And although it was certainly legal to do that, we do that as a conflict. And so we avoided going into real estate real element that would in any way repeat with fifth hour borrowers bank. Once we sold the best old America that that restriction from our viewpoint moved and we started developing in real estate in earnest. Where some of the projects that were kind of early on in it stage of Thomas and mass and our first major project was the McCarran the Kent business park where where Nevada State Bank's headquarters are located today. Yeah. So that was our first real big project. The I-15 didn't exist. This is in the about 93 94 for and the night that I 15 was just being planned and this land had was actually owned by the Crockett family.(...) Peg and George Crockett were the original creators of McCarran Airport. Now here now at International Airport with our Airlines Bonanza Airlines. So it was a historical record 120 acre ranch ran. We had known the Crockett's forever and they wanted to sell their ranch and so we kept them in the deal in the corners. So this was our first our major business park that I focused on. So doing a project of that scale, what were some of the things that you kind of learned like lesson learned or experiences that you can share about taking on something like somebody's your first venture. Sure. From a development standpoint. Well because the park was was early and they weren't a lot of utilities in the air in the utility companies and the Clark County Commission became our beginners.

 

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We very we've had to work with them on bringing the vision. This was going to be a million and a half square feet of office light industrial and and work with them with bringing utilities into the area that then actually benefited all the residential development of all the rest of the right. Sure. Sure. And then because the two 15th was going to come through the area there was a lot of work with the county with a mission on how best to create the on ramps and off ramp off in the area. So there was a lot of dialogue with a really good commission team at the time at Bruce Woodbury to notable people that have done a lot to create the infrastructure of transportation in the Las Vegas Valley.(...) Do you decide to develop to love that ranch into a commercial commercial because you knew that there was a need like what were some of the things that as a company or as a business owner that you identified where you're like you know like this location and site is needs a million plus square feet in office space because of x y and z. Like I'm sure I can just say if we build it they will come able type of situation or you did. I don't know. Well, no, we were very we were familiar with the area. My father and Jerry Mack had previously owned the Hughes and real park on long sun just to the north of this project. And they sold that property to Hughes.

 

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He's moved to town in the late sixties. And so they were very familiar with this area.

 

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We realize that there is the off ramps that warms and warms that would generate the traffic that a business park would really need. And we also saw is a nice location action distant between all of the development on the west side of Las Vegas and Green Valley that the Greenspans had already developed in in that area. So we were so sad is kind of a feeder point between those two large residential area. Okay, nice. So you kind of already have the lay of the land and decided, okay, this is a perfect site for us to have something like that. They will help feed the rest of the infrastructure that was being created. Yeah, and anytime you can develop close to close airport, but you're not you're underneath the fly of four of an airport. Those are always very, very s full development. You want to close in airports great as long as you want restricted too much by the environs of the runways. Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about the legacy factor of Thomas and Mac. That's one thing that I always find always interesting in any business is that generally businesses start to get more complicated or they start to the wheels start to start off a little bit as generation rate or to kind of come in and over. Or someone comes in and just kind of takes take changes the course of it entirely and it kind of loses that family efficacy from that standpoint. What are some of the like, I guess I get values are kind of focuses that is Thomas and Mac has to keep this company continuing to move forward into the fender.(...) Well, it's a great point because typically the companies aren't considered multi generational.

 

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A typical developer goes in those picks up a piece of property pretty builds it up leases lead finances it and sells it and then in those proceeds and and multiplies the development. When we see this project McCarran centers and we were developing it specifically for a multi generational estate playing asset and when you're doing that you look at debt differently from you're looking at debt for a for a longer term. But importantly for the Thomas and Mac partner part was thing was 5050.

 

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Have had a quality between the 2 to a families so that there will never a majority position was important for us. It was fired unanimity and consensus between the families and then because we were originally bankers for many decades. We looked at debt.(...) Currently and the partner part had a very conservative outlook on don't and that can really disrupt partnerships on partners have different outlook on the risk level that the partnership and have but our families have really really a very focused level on a conservative debt structure. And that's helped us weather as well out of the recession dash Las Vegas has gone through over the years. Well, yeah, that was one thing I wanted talked about earlier a few weeks ago. So it's the Great Recession. Oh, much that really devastated kind of Las Vegas and so much of the property here and many of the many developers that are very well-run in town were not able to survive. And so, you know, it's funny because as a thinker, I'm always we're always trying to determine is the healthy level of leverage right for any company. What's the outlook look like the like deputy the stability of them of able to continue to generate and fall in event that an economy the economy declines to be able to still make good on those debt on station. So it is very unique to know that you're a developer that actually did sleep debt at all because most developers take on debt when they're doing any project. The uniqueness factor is that your father and his partner, they saw a vision of creating legacy, which I which is kind of important when you're looking at making generational business is really thinking about what comes after you and how you set that next set of family up for six versus right now. Very so. I mean, even when you look at the legal documents that you create as a landlord,(...) your leasing property,(...) your tenants are learning at what their obligations are under the land. And in Las Vegas, we saw a wide range of of legal documents of leases.(...) And we very purposefully decided on on having leases that were that are tennis tennis and what often remarks are very fair lease. Not really.(...) You're not really beating me up with a lot of provisions would make it difficult for me for if something bad arose. So in my business, our purpose purpose and for doing that is because we were looking for these as very long term investment. And so we were we were hickier on who we would we talk to as a potential tenant, but then we wanted to give them a lead that recognize that they were at this mess. They needed flexibility and whether it was to be as to expand or even to be able to move out of the premises must have them be adjusted instead of us shrink their size. We took that very purposeful because we saw it as a long term opportunity to find the right tenant 10 for the long haul. And that's when I've had many of our tenants for 25 30 years in our buildings. Well, and that's relationship and I think is part of that important component because even if even landlord tenant relate relationship, having that good relationship and that understanding and really that partnership that you're getting your into right to make sure that they're taking care of your property, that they're paying their rent on time, but then but they're also creating success in their way, I think is is something that is very unique to people that are in that development world. Because you have to care about the community and what you're curating it necessarily always be maximizing the profits that it's the year making on that side. Yeah, very much so. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I saw that in in one of my dad's legacies was when any partnership has to be as in for both sides. It's not gonna last. And you can't create a partnership document that is going to keep you from from conflict if the partnership doesn't have benefits to both parties. If you get into a legal issue with a partner, there's no doc, no going to save you, it's just going to just like, we fall apart and cost everybody a little money and legal fees. So, and stress. Yeah. So that leads me into a skill that you really need when you have a partnership or you're managing a practice for family is the art of negotiation. What were some of the things that you've kind of learned along the way to be able to have those type of those conversations to bring everyone to the table and make sure that you're progressing forward in the right manner. And that ultimately, you guys are comes up with a solid solution. Part of it just came from a community focus. When we were looking at even that we would partner with one of our other business development projects, Vegas, the Beltway Business Park that we partnered with majestic realt. We did a lot of research into who majestic was and the thing that that really our focus was on was what they were saying in their community of in California. And we found a company that was extremely philanthropic. The CEO, Ed Rosky, he very involved with universe and it was like USC of that fit well with our focus of this community development of being involved in with you and LV.(...) We would look at potential partner starts. We wanted to find partners that weren't just inches to the profit side business. They actually had a community focus because that told us a lot more about them. Then anything we could have done from a financial inspection of their balance or what they had built it really spoke to who they were as people and what long term focus was. Yeah, finding like minded individuals. It sounds like is very important. Is that something that that a business you kind of sat down with the other members and said, okay, we're going to be putting down some down or values or something or something that to kind of. Create a little bit of structure struck it or was it just more of a natural everyone was on the same page and this is naturally what we're looking for and for other businesses that we work with. No, I mean, that's that's an interesting point because I mentioned that from the get go and still into this day where now she's 70 years in a partner's heart.(...) All of our investment that be 5050 is a family and most of our large philanthropy was always 5050 if as well.

 

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So so whether it was a UNLV at Opportunity Village or the Smith Center other place or plus the Thomas and Mac families would put in put an equal amount of money. So that really really caught our generations whether it was the second and third generation that it's not not about a business partnership. It's also about community partnership and I that's held our families together in a very United Nation because we also had to decide where do we want to put on a philanthropy and we had to think about it from an equal footing to very different families. Yeah, yeah. So were there ever ever agreements or things that makes that you guys couldn't agree upon? Like how did you you have navigate through those difficult conversation? Well, I mean, some philanthropy has has political sides to it. And really the the Thomas family has been on the conservative side side aisle and and our Mac partners are on the side of the aisle.

 

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But actually, I you know, it really didn't that stuff just never came up because he never allowed politics to get into our love for each other. Yeah. And our respect for others partners. If anything, we would we talk very openly and often come to the same conclusion that this is the best person has nothing to do with a party affiliation or politics. We need to we report this individual, whether, you know, as a governor or whatnot, what's it were best for the state? Yeah. So I think because we were so can work to work people two sides can work. Well, exactly. Wow. Yeah.(...) And I think part of that just comes from a cool little respect that we had our partners have been very engaged with the Jewish community for years. And parts of my family have been very engaged with the Church of Jesus Christ, Christ, Christ, saints and two face have had really deep focus on his family. Yeah. And on reliance and self-respect, those kind of are the four values of these two culture called and they just blended perfect together.

 

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It's one thing that I like to look at the look I was like as a company like Nevada State that is we have our core values and I always try to fundamentally go back to that with any interaction or even people that I'm interviewing or looking at to join the company because you could be very different, which is totally finally. But if you your values are losing, I think that that's really where it really doesn't matter that other viewpoints or opinion and potentially be if you have the same say is you can really just kind of just construct it down to that core or and usually you'll probably be okay.

 

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Well, very much so I again when you're looking at looking partnership, if the values just those values that make you who you are family values focus for honesty ethics. If those don't align the partnership isn't busy to work very long, long, it's going to be about profitability, which is only one part of what a partnership needs for success.

 

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So tell me a little bit about about Thomas and Mac the company company employees that you kind of select so because you know, being a family practice or being something that is kind of creative legacy and managing funds for two family. What are some of the things that you typically try to in ill or identify in the people that you look to bring on board. So, a couple of different things that we did we kept the Thomas Mac company pretty small. We've been in we've been keen several thousand employees and formed a development company we decided to keep a small company, so that we could retain employees through different transitions and business, and then farm out everything we possibly could.

 

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Human Resources legal, a legal thing we we would farm out out. But what we were looking for was not necessarily that the individuals were experts at the time,(...) their, the area they already saw that they were going to go into was that they had a motivation to learn

 

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and take on new skill sets, and that they see a reputation of our company as really the most and most factor that that anything that would come up,(...) any difficulty that would come up, the decisions would be maintained to focus on the reputation, pay fairness and honesty and the long view, then profitability.

 

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And we've had our employees literally our employees are 20 to 25 even 30 year. Yeah, with us, and many of them came from industries that were necessarily what they ended up with with our company they just laid on the fly. Yeah, and, and develop those new skills which was which was fun for them to, to, I thought you're going to say that most of your employees were 20 and 25 years old. It was like, wow, wow, you love to hire very, very people to kind of run into to Mac and help with that.(...) So what are some of the things that you kind of instill in, like your family or for kids your family is going to be the next step or the next level of Thomas and Mac you talked about the importance of understanding, giving back giving your community the philanthropic part of, you know, the wealth and the things that you've created for the boards that it can't just be about profits, it often needs to be about community develop, develop and reinvesting. But what, what, or how do you do that? How do you still that within the kid that are kind of coming up and that are venture are going to be part of Thomas and I'm going forward. Well, for us, I do the same thing that my mom did one day and just talk to my kids about what do they really really want to do.

 

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Where does our heart lead them? They'll be good at it. If you really if you love it.(...) And they and the the capacity to to study the thing that they love to if they wanted to focus in and at a university setting or in a trade settings or in a special school setting something that they love. And that's where my kid my gone is chase things that were interest to them as opposed to feeling like well, I want to go into the family business. My siblings to their my nieces and nephews are in a variety of other business business that have nothing to do with real estate development, which is exciting for me to me, I really enjoy seeing them master these other areas these other these careers. Well, it's a tape. It sounds like they get like they take advantage of just moving forward with whatever they're passionate about. It's nice not having pressure, pressuring the family business if you will, if you'd probably be a deaf be a pill to swallow for someone that maybe where there he wasn't in it. Right. We do as a family talk about philanthropy, about the about this that motivate me and my wife, and then what motivates my kids. And so we we we try to run our philanthropy where our kids are making choices on things that they cite them. And we act their vision vision of where those others should go, which is a lot of thought of because I'm learning from my kids about some areas of the kind of

 

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community and I really have never investigated.

 

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Yeah, well, I'm Vegas is is a big thing. Now, it's really really actually just in the 21 plus years that I've been here to see where I can't imagine what it's going to look like 20 years from now. I'm now you born and raised right. I'm assuming being in vain since the 50s have really seen this play this explode and kind of evolve. Well, do you think is like the next step for Las Vegas? We talk about diversification, right? Trying to diversify business and industry and not be so reliant on necessarily the hospitality entertainment space and they've been successful in reinventing the strip to not just be about gaming, but to be about entertainment and sports and other things like that. What are some of the things that you kind of see of becoming on the horizon?

 

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Well, I was involved with the company, the Switch for the last 20 years and that was a focus on data centers, technology,(...) bringing companies here from out of state to store all their their debt here.(...) And interestingly, Switch, which look at their client base,(...) maybe 5% were in the gaming arena.(...) So the vast majority were out of state companies. So that's in that area of diversification.(...) However, when you when you are when you have 155,000 hotel rooms, that's still the core upon which you're going to build.(...) And I just applaud the reinvention and Las Vegas that occurs about every 10 years.(...) And now focus on sports has been so successful with the Golden Knights. And I think likely because when the night started, it wasn't was about building a franchise here in Las Vegas and bringing bring clients and come. It was about the community unit. And they they knocked it in on the park and won the heart and the minds of the locale book also created a team that I think nationally is seen as has been a community focus. And I think that's just that's just expanded our opportunity to attract individuals that might come here once or twice. He's, you know, to what Vegas has to offer. But now they're in here multiple times because their sports fans first for and everything else is just in just on. So I really I love over the years just being as they're watching this continuous reins region of what Las Vegas is and what is asked to offer. Yeah, I think I Vgk the Golden Knights when they came, I'm not a big hockey fan. I love going to go games. I love the energy. I don't know what's going on on the ice most of the time and can barely follow the fuck. But, you know, it's it's fun to be a part of. I feel like that actually let the world let them know that there is a community in Las Vegas. A lot of people just thought of Las Vegas as sin city in this is that you go and you party all weekend. We like, yeah, there's people that live there. But GK and just when you're in your air in the world and you see like the night shirt or hat like you know that they understand and that they've seen that there is there this actual community in Las Vegas that it's so much more than just coming here. And being entertained for taking that there's some businesses and homes and so many other things off that I think more people are gravitating towards and wanting to see not necessarily just staying on the last The last strip they're wanting to go to go all of those fun food on places that are kind of sprinkled through in Las Vegas or different little areas of unique shopping being might exist in this in that maybe they never thought of. But I think that's a great thing.

 

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to come here, because I've spoken in a week about the have a sit down with the mayor. Yeah. Or meet three county commissioners or city council members will still a very open governmental base and regulatory over to where you can meet everybody that's going to influence and, and help you build your business. So it's still a very open atmosphere for business standpoint, I think that's very attractive.

 

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A lot of people moving here just for tax reasons and others and nothing to do with what was on the strip. They like the residential environment exists in Las Vegas. Yeah. No, I agree.(...) So last question for you. One of the most iconic names that I've seen on a building and build it's been in Vegas forever is Thomas and the building that is next is new UNLV. Can you tell us a little bit about how Thomas talking a plate of hand in the creation of our university and what we see today? Sure. It's a fun story. In the sixties, my dad and Jerry Mack were looking for a place to put a bank operation center, a computer center. And they thought let's put it really close to Nevada Southern University, this small little, little university that had started in 1957.(...) As they were looking at the maps, they realized that UNLV owned a 40 acres land and that's not enough for a university.(...) So my dad and Jerry had a lot of contact with the hotel owners and other real estate developers, layers, Erwin Malaski. And they reached out to those individuals and told them that they were going to assemble all the land that they could take around what was then was at a Southern University.(...) And these individuals like Erwin Malaski was very generous and literally just turned his over property that they had in the ad and but they assembled 300 and 30 acres of land,(...) formed a land foundation,(...) had their bank there by all of the bonds to support this land foundation.(...) And when the feds had a little issue with their bank buying all these bonds at the state and it didn't necessarily have to pay off,(...) my dad and Jerry Mack personally guaranteed bonds.

 

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Then, and fortunately, land prices started shooting up in Vegas. They were as a sell off a(...) portion of the land at the corner of Orner, England Paradise.(...) And out of the 2 million, it caught them to buy all of that real estate at an average price of about $7500 bucks an acre.

 

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They were able to pay off a free force of that bond in in Denshire.(...) Hence,(...) the Southern University, which then was renamed UNLV,(...) ended up with 400 acres of campus in which to expand upon.(...) And in the in the early 80s, the rebels could no longer play in the Las Vegas Convention Center.(...) They were too popular of a team and the convention center and other things they wanted to do.

 

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So my dad and Jerry helped pay for the processes to build the Thomas the Tonic Center and hence the naming of that. But it all started with some foresight to assemble the land that UNLV now sits on. Yeah, well, and that's I think one of the main lessons I'm taking away from this Congress comment is having the foresight and the vision and really thinking beyond what you want to leave and what does that dislike and paving that way and kind of kind of understanding, bring in maybe even experts if you ever tell yourself how to create so that it lives on beyond you. Same with the news conversation, making sure that you are having those values discussions with anyone that you want to king with or that you're identifying and trying to figure out if they share the same value you do. Very much so. Yes. Thank you. Yes. Been fun to be with you. Thank you so much, Tom, for being a part of through the door, the door inside his perspective on running up and running us. Please subscribe if you haven't already. And make sure that you watch this episode. It has been such a pleasure and enter in order to have such an iconic person here today with us with talking about our city and everything that is going on in it. So thank you.