Data to Empower Your Business

In “Episode Eight: Data to Empower Your Business,” host Megan Comfort sits down with Jeremy Aguero and Brian Gordon, principals of Applied Analysis, to explore the company’s 28-year journey as one of Nevada’s most respected economic consulting firms. Lifelong friends turned business partners, Aguero and Gordon share how they’ve built a values-driven organization rooted in integrity, innovation, and mentorship, while highlighting their role in shaping major economic initiatives across the state—from Allegiant Stadium and the commerce tax to infrastructure planning and fiscal policy. They also break down the results of NSB’s 12th annual Small Business Survey, offering a detailed look at the perspectives of business owners and executives on the key issues impacting Nevada’s small business landscape.

All price references and market forecasts correspond to the date of this recording. This podcast should not be copied, distributed, published or reproduced in whole or in part. The information contained in this podcast does not constitute research, recommendations, representations or warranties as to the accuracy or completeness of the statements of any information contained in this podcast and any liability from Zions Bancorporation, N.A or its divisions (including direct, indirect, or consequential loss or damage) is expressly disclaimed. The views expressed in this podcast may not be those of Zions Bancorporation, N.A. or any of its divisions. Zions Bancorporation, N.A. is not providing any financial, economic, legal, accounting or tax advice or recommendations in this podcast. In addition, the receipt of this podcast by any listener is not to be taken as constituting the giving of advice, investment or otherwise, by Zions Bancorporation, N.A. to that listener, nor to constitute such person a client of Zions Bancorporation, N.A. Copyright reserved by Zions Bancorporation, N.A. Nevada State Bank is a division of Zions Bancorporation, N.A. Member FDIC

Chapters

• 0:06 Welcome Jeremy Aguero and Brian Gordon of Applied Analysis
• 1:12 Homegrown Friends Turn Professional Duo
• 4:46 Secrets to a Lasting Partnership
• 7:54 Establishing Expertise as an Economic Consulting Firm
• 12:14 Breaking Down Data into a Consumable Format
• 14:53 Unbiased Data
• 17:22 Unsung Victories and Broadcasted Mistakes
• 19:06 Success as a Reflection of Clients
• 20:35 Stress Testing Economic Projections
• 25:02 Qualities to Look For in Employees
• 26:51 Small Business Survey from Nevada State Bank
• 28:14 Small Businesses Are the Best Indicators of the Health of the Economy
• 30:27 Impact of Palisades Fire on Nevada's Economy
• 33:20 Reaction of Businesses to Political Change
• 35:57 Technology, Automation and Artificial Intelligence
• 38:23 Will Tech Efficiencies Eliminate Jobs?
• 41:46 Where Does Artificial Intelligence Fit In?
• 44:26 Evolution of Artificial Intelligence
• 46:55 The Resiliency of Nevada's Business Environment
• 48:21 Pipeline of Projects in Nevada
• 51:16 Contributing to Change
• 53:59 Expanding Our Circles
• 55:25 Mentorship and Paying it Forward
• 57:44 Jumping into Public Speaking
• 59:12 How to Make Numbers Interesting
• 1:02:55 What is Your Guiding Principle?
• 1:04:20 Like & Subscribe

Transcript

Thank you. Welcome to Through the Door, the insider's perspective on running on a business. I'm Megan Comfort, Small Business Manager at Nevada State Bank. And this is a podcast where we interview business owners, business leaders, leaders, serial entrepreneurs in the state of Nevada and get to learn from their stories, story experiences, running companies and organizations in our state.

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If you like what you hear, please subscribe to the podcast and tune in to any of the past and future episodes that we have. Today's guest is I am extremely excited to announce we have Jeremy Aguero and Brian Gordon, the principles of applied analysis. It's a premier economic phenomenon in the state of Nevada that has great ties to the state of Nevada and has been involved in many of the iconic projects that you actually see within our state. They provide great stats and economic information in a consumable and actionable format for both businesses and legislators to help them make them more informed decisions. So thank you so much for being here today. Thanks for having us. So typically start these episodes off with an origin story, just understanding a little bit about how your partnership came into being and then also how you guys took that leap in creating pre applied analysis.

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You want to take that one? You want me to take that one? You got this one. Sorry.(...) So, so, okay. Our story goes way back, right? I mean, both of our locals here, right, met each other playing soccer. Some of you are five or six years old, right? We went to elementary school together, middle school together, high school together. We were college roommates and then and then starting a company together. I worked with what was Cooper's and library now Pinebrains Waterhouse Coopers during my last class of undergraduate coursework and was with Arthur Anderson and doing a rotational in the Silicon Valley. When we both graduated and, you know, I started start applied analysis and we had a little bit of little momentum through all of that. And, you know, I begged since day one to, you know, and work and let's do this together. I mean, you just you just somebody you trust and you know, and you just it was good to be able to do bad. And, you know, it was no and he was blowing all those type of things. And it's been very, very successful at Arthur Anderson.(...) But, you know, for whatever reason, Brian decides, you know, he's ready. He's to make that leap. And I was with 1000 to 2000, 2000,(...) you know, he decides he's going to move back to Las Vegas, fame,(...) the Silicon Valley and van, you know, we had this this this brilliant idea. Yeah, right. Because both of us started start these like accounting firms, right back tribes, the big five, big six, six, six, six, yeah, big six, six, six firms. And so they all had like a consulting arm and then accounting arm and we are no, why not we could do the exact same thing, same, right. And, and you know, we formed up the company to be able to do that, do that some early clients, but, you know, as the momentum startups grow, we had a lot of consulting consulted work. And so, you know, early on, you're trying to figure things out and make all those those happen. But, you know, between the two of them that we we we had, we were able to grow, we're in the right place, right time, you know, a lot of things happening. You know, the fact that, you know, we're in a market that's growing the way that it is, you know, I know we're gonna, we're gonna talk more about partnerships and those things as we go forward. But there's certain just degree of serendipity about it all right. I mean, I don't have a whole lot of memories.(...) And most of my life that Brian isn't a part of and, you know, you can find someone that you trust that way and the way that has that kind of acumen and market that was going to be conducive to what we're trying to do. And, you know, we started with a, what a very simple philosophy, did good work for good clients and help them do whatever they were trying to do. They would hire us again, and they would keep coming back in that philosophy sort of underline almost everything that we've been doing for the past 28 years. And so, you know, I realized that maybe it feels like to feel more magic to it, all of that. But, you know, look, I had the opportunity to start a company with us friend and, you know, as his family grew and my family grew, we sort of have this opportunity to share so much together to get in terms of, you know, seeing our kings and grow up and seeing our family sort of do the things that they're going to do, but at the same time, having the ability to build this community grow up and see a part of some pretty amazing things together. So, so I don't know, Brian, I'm sure I missed some. Yeah, I don't know what you missed. That was great. He's crying actually. Well, I thought there's a lot of magic in what you have, not necessarily maybe in the same way, but a lot of partnerships,(...) working in banking, you see a lot of partnerships, gift ships and people go into business with each other. A lot of times it is family, friends,(...) and oftentimes it doesn't, it's not a lasting partnership and they're just not necessarily on the same page. Has that ever been a situation for you guys where maybe you guys aren't always on the same page? Like what are some of the things that you guys do working together whenever there's like a disagreement if you guys do have any disagreements? I don't think you do. It's a little surprising, but we don't often disagree if ever, I suppose. Oh, I don't know. We just, I think we both think we're at business and at work and work our personal lives generally the same way. So I don't know that we run into a lot of conflict along the line. And if we have something different ideas about things, maybe we provide or offer each other different perspectives, but I don't know that we don't know, get into a situation where we feel like we're in a conflict with one another. So I don't know that that really happens very often. And maybe that just comes from a shared experience too. I mean, I really, I don't know. I mean, we grew up so similarly or that, you know, our education, our mindset, the expenses that we've had have been so similar. So that's part of it. I mean, we do things that are different. I mean, there's a lot of the operation within our office relative to the thought that I handle or Brian handles and he better frankly, a lot of things out of I am,(...) you know, no, but look, I think I think instead of finding places where there's tension, because I think Brian and I would believe and I agree if we, you know, if we all the time, one of us would be unnecessary, right? And so, so, okay. And I suppose I can say they can allow and Brian will stop me if it's wrong. Look, I, you know, I tend to come up with a couple of some ideas and Brian will tell me which they were good ones, right? And that's kind of a helpful thing to have. It is as we're sort of, Hey, what do you think about you? Hey, what do you think about that? The part is, you know, and, and, and I don't know exactly why anyone know why this feels this and is that, you know, we sort of we snover backward to be, um,(...) you know,(...) welcoming each other's ideas, right? Right. You know, when, when I'm, I'm buried beyond belief, Brian's always there to make sure to make help when he's buried beyond belief, I'm leaves there for him. I mean, nothing comes out of the office that I write to Brian doesn't I, and to you and vice versa. And this is true with the other members of our team. Um, you know, I think we've learned really early on, probably with this process that, you know, you know, better when we think through things together, Evan, if you believe that you've then do something on your own and they don't sort of need help, help. And I think our company's probably the wrong priorities for you to work. I love that. That's actually really good complement to each other, just other kind of separation, but together kind of trusting each other to go and go on different lanes. And then obviously having each other's back is very important.(...) Um, let me a little bit about the consultative side of your business. You mentioned coming from the big six spines and then come in and Brian to join the team.(...) When you guys saw the area, like how did you, I guess, I identify this consulting space as being a space that you needed to lean into, you kind of alluded to, it just kind of evolved into really focusing on, on that area. But, but did you, I guess, kind of guess enter into that anytime I see, I see doing consultative work sometimes becomes a challenge for Alan to like break in, right? It display themselves as an ex actor providing quality work that, you know, shows benefit and value. So how are some of, what were some of the things I think did to create that? And I think I agree with this and like record retrospectives, but it's ridiculous. Right. Right. Right out of school, school. Um, you were young. Yeah. I was like, when you said, yeah, I mean, I was 22 years old, two years when I started applied analysis, right? And who in the world, who in the world, mine is going to hire a 28 year old consultant? Right? No one. But when we left Cooper's, um, you know, there was some separation, some instability going on in that world, relative to whether the weathering firms and the accounting firms could sort of could exist. In addition to that addition, I had a professor of mine, uh, there was an incredible mentor, his name, Torin and Bybee, uh, who had, I think he was the very first person, but this person I'm almost certain, the one who started the internet, the gaming institute at UN at beam. And then I took a class with Shannon when, and it was my sophomore year, more thing along those lines. And he became this just incredible mentor to me. Hey, you know, you want you to come in and tell me about your class. And we would talk all the time. And we were really curious. And when I graduated, they happened to be this group going around the United States called the federal gaming and penming study commission. And they were studying the impacts of gambling, gaming, casino based and nobility throughout the United States. And it was asked to do an economic fiscal impact associated with gaming in the state of Nevada. And when I graduated, he said, Hey, I want you to come on, help me do this. And so when I had left Cooper's, they hired the back cause I had run a few model associated with that. And so I had had, you know, two clients and said, Hey, it sounds like the opportunity to kind of affirm relative to that. Um, you know, then we had other opportunities, but again, I'm going to say the same thing. I said, I'm the board, Brian, that is, it was kind of right. Right. Right. Right. When we were, we were coming up in this sort of 1997, 1998 period, there was a group of folks that were very influential in doing a lot of the work of the, maybe weren't as comfortable with some of the systems that were out there. They weren't used to things like, you know, even like spreadsheets that we know to, they weren't doing sort of presentation takeaway. We do them today. And that's so much from where we were then. And we were the ones that were willing to, to, to carry the luggage, like the ones that were willing to do whatever work was that we needed to do to do and hand that to someone and say, here it is now go do whatever you need to do with it. And I think that right place play time, that serendipity around that combined with the fact of it, I think Brian and I in a remarkable work ethic, I, you know, I don't think anybody's going to outwork or one of us.(...) And that is something that folks found to be valuable and bold and they would just hire us for the next thing. And I think, I suppose we have to give due credit to guy that Kenny Gwynn to and probably probably Bob's who, you know, right after the events of September 11th, heaven asked us to collectively act up with the governor's task force on his policy. So, you know, we, you know, just do some of these things. We did some more. It's a commercial real estate firm and, you know, back in the day, all of the, the studies for like North Los Vegas and things like that, but found little places where some were needed somebody to do something for them. And it, you know, it opened up doors, but I, but I, to your point, I, I trying to explain to someone like, you know, my kid, my, how it is that you start a business along those lines, because when it's being back, you know, it was a lot, it was hard work, a lot of late nights. And no doubt about that, but it was a lot of luck, Megan. I also think it was building a reputation that, that got people talking about the bulk that you guys were doing, right? You're doing quality work things that, that honestly, when I think about, about nineties, I was very young at the young, I think I was like 11.

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When I think about that top and utilizing the data depth and information and putting other kind of reports that people could use, it was all things that people needed, but necessarily wasn't easy to obtain. And definitely not how it's easy now. They say data in the new gold, right? Has been saying for well over a decade, putting it into an action and consumable format is not, that's a talent. It's not easy to do. So I'm sure that shirt was probably part of it. How, how you guys decide, share information to general public that doesn't, necessarily they know it's important and they want it. It's almost like knowing you need anything, but not necessarily knowing what that was. Yeah. Well, I think it's probably over time, you know, Jeremy talks to me tonight and I don't know how many overnighters we did during the governor's tavern or some tax tax policy, but I think we had a couple of change of clothes, changes of clothes in the office at that time. And, you know, it wasn't easy work. And then getting our hands on the data and the information and all of that was much different than it is today. You jump on the internet and you ask chat GPT, you know, to share some information about a particular topic or subject and you can get to it relatively quickly, right? It's sort of evolved over the years and I think our business has basically been forced to evolve all years. And so I think early on, early we were a little bit more sensitive to, to sharing that information with others. Obviously our clients came first and that's who we were doing the work for.(...) Now I think we find ourselves sharing information a lot more with the public, with policy leaders and our community folks that are actually making a lot of decisions. I think we're more apt to, to share that information more freely. And I think, you know, clients it's, it's a little bit different. It's, it's, you know, we have this phased approach to it, its research, its analysis and less reporting. So getting that data, data, almost anybody can do that. Do what you do with that information, the interpretation of that data and information and then finding a way to, to display it or report it or share it with clients, by public so that it's, can be used in a meaningful way. It doesn't really do a whole lot of good if you're able to collect data and crunch numbers if you're not able to communicate it effectively. What I like about the data that you guys provide is that there's a lot of trust in the information that we're looking at and it's just, it's factual. That doesn't seem like there's any one way that you guys are trying to display the information to paint a particular picture. It's just, this is what is going on. Here's some good things. Here's some not great things. Here's some areas of concern. Can hear some of the challenges that we have to have. Yeah, sure. Look at me and we make criticism from time to time because you're working on any real issue about how people want to believe that you're wrong. Our experience and you can correct me correct. First they come after you then when they can't beat you on the date or the model, the model come after you personally, right? We've dealt with this throughout our entire entire since, you know, the governor's task force, tax policy 20 years ago, more than that now. You know,(...) it doesn't matter. Everyone wants to believe that you're biased and you don't say anything is, is, you know, some of that is because of the hurts that come out and what we have because oftentimes when the work that we do, we ease the light of day, it's because it's the project is likely to work. It makes logical sense. It's economically viable. It's legally permissible. All of those type of things, right? What people never see are the reports that never see the light of day. They never see first 50 calls that we get to get tell someone, yeah, that's nothing going to happen. Right? And you know, whether it's never going to happen economically, or it's never going to happen politically, or somebody just has some idea because as we know, living in the community, there's all kinds of folks that have that a trailer and a dream, right? And they just want to kind of believe that, you know, their idea is the right idea. And I appreciate praying it because, you know, I think oftentimes people want to believe that we, let me say that, let me say, we pride ourselves on the work that we do. We pride ourselves on integrity. And I think the folks in our office do the same thing. I mean, two things that drive the people in our office. And I think it is the integrity of the world and leaving the community better than they found it. When we have like a pride for a, you know, like a new museum or something for like green planet. I mean, our team will line up to say, I would say to work on that project. And when we work on things that might realize, you know, like the, the stadium and the Raiders deal or a deal or something along those lines, these are things that get our team are amped up because they know it elevates our community and they want to be part of that. But that, that not mean that you, you know, it has to be right. Because the other side is we're a hundred percent judged on the outcome. If something goes right, nobody talks about the fact about you did it at all. Yeah. Right. Every else lines up and says, look at this greatest thing that we did. If it goes the other way, it is a hundred percent percent our fault. And I will, I will, I will one that strikes me more than any, right. Was when we were working with Guggenheim Sandoval on the commerce tax and I that could be sort of a controversial person of a thing. And we can get into the want of the what, but you know, we worked on that in many different ways. And you know, I mean, I mean, I understand of all knew how hard that we're going to be. And in terms of the leaders, I just have a ton of back for him because he wanted to be one that if he was going to wake up at 75, many fold and look back at what he did, what he wanted to know that he left, left everything on the field. And I love that about, about him. And I love the opportunity to work with him. But in working on the commerce, we had all of these folks come out and tell us, oh gosh, the projections are going to be too high and the projections are going to be too low. And anytime you're doing that, you eventually building a state budget based on the expectation of what that revenue is going to be. Right. And all things done coming up with an entirely new source. I think it came in within like one like cent of the projection, which there's no way, no lucky there too. There's no way you're going to poi something within 1% of a project. But no one ever says, you know, hey, great job. You nailed it. It nailed the revenue generation. But had that thing had them in $50 million less, we would have heard about it. Or they'd come in $50 more, we would have heard about it. But you know, we're lucky because projects that we've worked on the governor's towers, doors, Allegiant Stadium, the con, the tax restructuring, how we following education in the state in this of Nevada, the A's deal, the Raiders, right.(...) They've worked out worked well for the state of Nevada. And I think we always like to say like the success is branded by the success of our clients, right. When the bank does better, we think we do better. But when the state does better, does he do better because we never believe in that our our our entire legacy are all of our work is is a reflection of the success of the clients that we've had. And so, when you think about things, you know, we like to say you don't have a second chance at integrity, you're only as good as the last little project that you did and not you haven't been involved in things. And I think some of them the commerce tax, even dealing with reforming the plumbing employees retirement system, and those I mean, there's been some really tonnerelings, right. I mean, there was one time when we worked on that. I'm sorry if I'm sorry, long here, but we worked on a, you know, you know, it was like over time by firefighters, police officers, and they didn't want to let us in even building to come in and they went angry with us and all that kind of stuff. And stuff. That's okay. You ignore the news and you believe that you're doing the right thing, the right thing. I think it comes down to the passion though, that you guys have for community and what you're doing and how you can, how making a difference. It's interesting. Just here, you talk about like the commerce comics and other things that probably are very controversial. You know, there's no other people on both sides of the fence. Some people are like that's destined, does not work. And it's going to be complete failure. It's a misuse of tax dollars. And there's the case maybe, and then others that are really that are hearing for it and seeing the economic impact. And when you have that level of pull of her and there's that much on the table, especially, especially your point when it goes well, well, it's like that silent pat on the back back or you guys celebrating, you know, and, you know, and then Lee, but, and when it, and when it didn't go, well, there's all this culture of, Hey, you guys help put this thing together. Well, how do you deal with that lack of stress? Like what are some, what are things that you do to really stress test and make sure like, am I looking at looks the right way? Am I making sure that the sure is the absolute best outcome? And if I were to go, we're at a probability, like, do you guys, do you get a threshold if you will, or it's like, if I know that there's an 80% probability this is going to go well, we're going to, we're going to put our stamp on it. I have someone to hear your answer to this.

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Well, okay. It's pretty straightforward, I think, thing. Obviously there's mechanical can do within the office, you know, layers of you and testing and, you know, assessing and all of those, all of the things, but I think we're going to do whatever due diligence, ill necessary at the end of the day. We, we, we, we need to work through that through process. And until we feel comfortable that we're getting to, to the right answer, not a favorable or unfavourable, but the right answer, then we know we've done our job and we just need to think about it that way. We're going to do everything that it takes to make sure sure that we've ticked and tied, tied every element of the analysis. We've sort of checked our zeros. We've gone through all of that due diligence that's required to make sure that we're delivering a quality product regardless of who is receiving it. It's just sort of the same process, process through time and again, meaning whatever the project is and whatever this project area is, we want to make sure, you know, we've done everything that we can before it goes out the door at our office.

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He's being a little, being modest too, right? I mean, this guy's probably as detailed or tinted as any person you'd ever find in terms of thinking through problems from beginning to end, right? His ability to sort of imagine what the pathways to outcome look like in terms of getting there and there, you know, creating an ethos, maybe not the right work ethic, establishing staff standard around the office that the project's not over until you get you the right answer. That's, you know, that's something that Brian brings every single time you're there. And, and I think from just a business, business point sort of thinking about it in terms of the theme of this podcast is, you know, for all the projects that we have, we don't ever tell our staff, you have 40 hours to work on this thing. This is the project, we need to get to the right answer, we need to do it efficiently, right? But we need to get, we need to the right answer and, and whatever it takes to get there, and that's mean that some projects, Jack, you know, we, we spend a lot more time more than the budget might otherwise suggest whatever it takes to get the client the right answer, the best analysis to going whatever that extra milestone is, is what we're going to work on. And, you know, I mean, sometimes it's like I said, that can create a problem for us, for us, but it also makes absolutely sure that, you know, ethos that, that drive, that thing that is our, it is our special sauce, if you will, is there every set of time because if every employee from the most entry level, endless and most senior project manager doesn't believe that they have the autonomy to take whatever time it takes, takes it to the right answer, then, then doing our job. Yeah, they're going to cook corn, cook, and maybe mistakes might be made. Sure. You're right, it does come full comfortable. I love that you say that your business success is a position of the success that it happened to have community and the clients that you set with, and that you kind of share that and embed that culture within your organization. And that's something that I try to do in bangling with, you know, small business, small bones, and what we do with business owners is you have to care, you have to care about what you're doing, your disclient and how much this means to me. You have to make sure that you make sure for every available to ensure that doing the right thing and you're trying to figure out the best possible outcome for the company, even if it's a no, because you change the entire trajectory of the life, right? You can make a big difference depending on if the answer is yes, this project will work or sorry, we can't, we can't see the feasibility in it. So tell me, tell me the culture aspect of things with your swim. It's hard, as you know, with the survey to find skyneworkers, people that react kind of fit the needs of what you're looking for in the work and the works. And one thing that you guys really focus is critical thinking and being able to provide solutions to solve complex problems. What are some of the things that you guys you guys for in your candidates at its firm that kind of coincide with, you know, the duties that they're going to set thinking on? You know, I think we're just looking for smart people, people's pretty much that simple. I we have people with all sorts of different backgrounds, we've got bio, bias, criminal justice, student analysts, we've got getting backgrounds of dance folks, NBA, people that have gone to law school, I mean, it sort of runs the gamut in terms of folks that we bring into our office. I think that's half battle. I think the other half of the battle is battle, tonality and ability to fit in that you know, and I'm sure I'm making world it's a lot of it's about relationship and being able to work with one another. And so, you know, we try to track all of those elements and shit together when we're talking to potential candidates to come to our firm and, you know, at some point, you just don't you realize that there feels like there's a good fit. And so, we take that opportunity to invest in folks and have them come have them join our firm. And look, I want to be very clear, I mean, the people that are people in office, they mean everything to think and I mean, this is helps the machine run.(...) This is what helps produce quality work. They are the ones that as we like to say, make the difference in terms of, you know, what we do and where we do it and how we do it. Do a team is sort of critical to everything that we do in our office. So switching gears on talking about projects, one one that we collaborate on with you guys, I got a state bank is the small business survey.(...) And this is in the fourth year kind of going into it into when you started this survey search here, was there anything they results wise that intrigued and true or that you were surprised by? I'll take a shot. I shot I have other things I think, you know, you were very interested in seeing how businesses were going to reenter to a change in administration.(...) That was kind of a big deal, big, you know, combined with the fact that some changes here in the state of Nevada are coming out of COVID. You know, we sort of view it as three phases, right? You had COVID-19, you had the period in which we're going to be kind of coming out of COVID-19 and sort of stabilizing as an economy. And now it's kind of where do we go from here. And I think at least what we were super interested in is all people viewed what a Trump administration was going to look in Washington D and how a new make new Congress was going to look in and at least from my perspective, and they feel a little bit differently about this, you know, I super bullish on Nevada believe in our state and, you know, when the legislature comes in commission, so many things are in play and everything from education to healthcare to economic development and how business business thought that would take place. I guess by the thing that I suppose I would mention and look at every year is the thing that we've learned over the 12 years is that that you want to know how the economy's con trend asks small businesses, right? They see it on the frontline from every day. And if you spend the spending to talk to them, they'll tell you how they think they'll tell you what they're going to what they're about. And they are unbelievably accurate over the past 12 years. And I think they're probably more accurate than any other measure that we have relative to that. And so and from that standpoint, I suppose understand under what this new evolution was going to be like this next chapter, if you want to think about that, I think in terms of the country and the economy,(...) but also just seeing the current, they think we're heading more on the right from the Russian, what things are really concerned about, right? You talked about, you know, the labor that they have that they're came up, I think inflation continues to be a big deal. But those are the things that I think I was most interested in. Yeah, I thought, you know, some of the trend lines was particularly pitiful. When we looked at, you know, optimism of the business executives, owner, you know, what their expectation that take for the economy going forward, and we saw in wings like they're more optimistic than they were a year ago, and more and even more optimistic than two or three years ago, sort of getting that that consistent pattern of recovery in their business and optimism going forward, I think, I think, you know, just demonstrates they believe in the economy, believe in the country, and they believe where things are. And so I think we saw a little bit more momentum this go around now we're now sitting here today. And in of, I'll say in an unusual time and thinking about the volatility in the stock market and those sorts of swings,(...) tariffs are obviously top of mind. And we're hearing a lot hearing about that in headlines and those sort of those things. So there's a lot of dynamics at play right now, term versus long term expectation. Like what does all this mean? But I think when we look at that report, and we talk directly to business owners and owner, kids, we get a pretty good sense that they leave in the longer run trajectory of where we're headed, they bumps along the way. But nonetheless, I think this expectation is that we're in a pretty darn good economy in a pretty darn good part of the country and we've seen a lot of economic growth and stability here. And I think our expectation is that that's going to continue. Yeah, one thing that you guys you guys brought up in a prior breakfast that we just recently had where we had at least the results of this business survey, was just some just the concerns of the devastation that kind of happened with the fires in Cairnsvornia and then kind of workers moving over there with everything going on on our state related related development and and you know, projects are we are concerned or you guys concern consending delays or shortage shores that could like impact them in a material way. Yeah, look, I think we're always concerned, right? I mean, it's part of the business that we're in. And you know, concern, we're always sort of monitoring stuff, whether it's water or labor or or legislature, we're always a word with regard to the requires themselves, I think there's it's complex, right? In one in from one perspective, we know already ready workers are leaving our market, our construction related workers, largely our market to go help in the recovery cover there. And I think it's a really important thing where it's great that those folks have jobs and and many of them are keeping their families here and that's income that continues to flow in community, which is a really positive thing that you know, Brian and I all know and talk about how important our construction related industry is our construction structure industry is to our economy here. It's remarkably important. You know, in terms of products being delayed, look, I think everybody's taking a little bit of a wait and see institute relative to the economy. The recovery in California relative to rebuilding bill will mean more money flows into California, more rebuilding takes place, I think, ultimately, that's a positive for southern and southern.

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Although, you know, we can't turn a blind eye to mind back that Nevada, particularly southern, but northern Nevada, too, and in any important ways, benefits tremendously from mental population and business migration, Asian California, and we're actually seeing some insects associated with that, as people make a vision in terms of whether to stay rebuild, they're going to do with their businesses, all those type of things, you know, the instability from a project based perspective, I think is also because all from what the cost of those projects probably, there's a lot of uncertainty around that today, tariffs and those type of things, things on, you know, do respect to that fact that we the universe of things that we know is waste water than the universe of things that we don't know today. And I think, you know, overreover into these type of things is something we all should be all very cautious about what that would then said, as a business person, that's person into building a, you know, an office building or a hospital or a stadium or a hotel, right, I think they have to think about, you know, exactly what those are and make sure that they're being as comprehensive as possible. And so, you know,(...) whether it's households or governments or business or businesses is generally, I think everybody's sorties, okay, we understand the dynamic here today, where do we went into that, and they're trying to figure out exactly how that stands. I loved I'm in the report, the level of optimism that people have, like you mentioned, I do think that that's more of a longer term return of optimism on just the direction of our overall economy.(...) You feel because we talked about wait and see, do you feel that maybe business owners are thinking about a little bit differently now that the administration is in and we're seeing all of the rapid change in things that are they're kind of thrown out there that's impacting a lot of different ideas, projects, investments that people are thinking about. Do you still think that level of optimism for 2025 is there? Yeah, I think I think it is. I think maybe people's expectations of issues to, you know, from time to time, depending on what's happening in the economy, but, you know, looks like us that have been our whole life. I mean, Nevada is the place to be, we will continue to be here, we will be here into the future and for the rest of our lives. I mean, this is just sort of what grew up. And so I think for businesses that are here, they've probably probably preferred quite a bit over the years and also see those long term economic opportunities that exist on the horizon. So I think the optimism remains, I think people, you know, will continue to navigate whatever the challenges of this are if it's this high inflation rate that we experienced just a few years ago that really, really impacted not only households, but businesses where everything just be just a lot more expensive. They figured out ways to navigate through more efficient with their human resources, finding different ways to automate things, finding ways to just be more and tell more about managing their businesses. I think today, it's just a different issue of the day and people are going to navigate the challenges that they face today. And today, you know, I think that's that's of the exciting thing about business owners, owner, panoras executives is there is a ability to figure out your how to make it work. I mean, that is sort of what makes your own business fun and exciting, right? And that is figuring out hearing problems facing those challenges and working through those. And I think a lot of people are up to the top to skin will continue to do that in the future. Yeah, I think business owners all earned a degree in degree management over the last five years, it feels like just thinking about all the different things that you've had to troubleshoot and overcome and pivot. And it's really remarkable to see business business just still going really strong and thinking about the innovation is something that came out of that survey that I was very intrigued about efficient fish innovation, how to do things a little bit smarter, leveraging some tools that are coming out like AI, things like that. Were you surprised by that being one of the main topics of focus for sort of business owners this year is here something for you guys as business owners that you're thinking about as well? Well, the second half of that question is obviously yes, I think that we are all we're sort of doing that. I mean, we tend to put a pretty analytical eye on our own business. And you know, we want to we were that we're spending time working on the business business working for the business, which is not important to us.(...) I don't think we're terribly terrorized by seeing that at least I wasn't I was I can speak for himself.(...) From the state from what the revenues have grown so significant in the past few years, right? I think business owners are pretty separate relative to that, right? As those revenues start to grow, I've got to think about how to be more efficient and everybody ever. I nailed it. Everybody's talking about automation. Everybody's talking about anybody. Right? I mean, you know, you know, I'm fond of saying there are two types of business business in the world, two types of employees are there rather than employ building a robot or being replaced by them, one of the two of them. And you know, with some of the advent of the technology that's taking the place right on the seamless team of data. Today, the integration of justice room is workable artificial intelligence, whether that's, you know, moving people around autonomously, or being able to do basic research in which, you know, really, a couple amount of time and with a remarkable amount of promotion. These are these things that businesses are just looking to take into tinge of, because they realize they do what they do more efficiently and more efficiently means a higher profit margin into tinge in his world.(...) That's the difference maker in everything. I mean, I think you I think I nailed it in terms of the long history of entrepreneurship in Southern and so it's just all about resiliency. But it's incredible. And entrepreneurship is a live and well in Nevada, Nevada as a whole. And in fact, there's no doubt about that. But I again, I'm just gonna re-ask what Brian already said, you know, business owners are constantly looking in place to do it better. And right now, the tools to be able to do it better

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are more significant than I think we've seen in a decade.

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What do you think about employees,(...) especially with the tools and innovation with AI? I know that a lot of businesses are getting towards am I going to be able to use some of these tools so that I don't necessarily have to hire more people and my people can kind of think on more capacity. I remember something that you talked about probably like, I want to say was a couple of years ago where you said, we're just producing people more money rather than finding more people paying someone double amount of salary isn't necessarily going to increase your productivity or be the best thing for your business. I still feel like that's something a lot of business owners and trying to navigate through and figure out how would you tackle a problem like that? I mean, there's a lot in that question.(...) I still think we have two people trying to do too many things.(...) Right.(...) And people are getting tired. Post COVID environment, I think a lot of people that are doing to be doing jobs.(...) I think I feel like I think Brian maybe feels a little he's just resilient. You know, but I think we see it in our team where we see a lot of people(...) and see people getting a little bit tired in this COVID, you know, hey, we pay every business says the same thing. Hey, there's I mean, there's people out there looking for a job or I can't find a good person to do exactly exactly need. But you have to be thoughtful relative to the integration of things like AI. Look, I don't I don't as we said here today, and in the five or 10 years, that that is going to replace a CEO or a manager in many places place. But I think and a CEO that uses AI or a manager that uses a guy is going to replace one who does not. So I think that becomes really supportive. The other thing that we've had a lot of conversations about is the idea that that

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as a generation comes up now, right?(...) Much like the generation that came up with a mobile phone or the generation that came up with the winnet, you now have a generation that's cashing them up with AI,(...) not going to know a world that doesn't have my ability to check everything through AI or to have or I give me the first cut at something some I worry were about their ability to distinguish between when AI gives like a right answer and the wrong answer. And my biggest concern relative to that is the same type of ethical thinking that I think underlies everybody that we're looking for. And that is, if you're going to use your gonna be better at your job, which a great tool and should be used, clear about that, you have to have the ability to distinguish between the answer and the wrong answer. And I fear that that's going that is already being diminished in some cases, because, you know, having 25 years of experience and then using it gives you an advantage over someone that someone can and certainly an advantage of someone has only has one because they don't have that that wealth of knowledge, that sort of wisdom that comes from the time and experience to be able to be in what is right and what is wrong. I think that's not just true in business. I think it's true in every business business that you know, when we when essentially use AI to replace critical thinking is in we're going to be in big trouble, big country. I worry about that too. I use AI quite a bit now. Now I'm my husband's obsessed with it. He's like, this is amazing. You don't need anybody to do anything anymore. It just create, create, which is really cool. But but what I use it for is like presentations and this gives you a starting point when you were a little stagnant on I don't us. And it helps, I guess, like kind of spark a fire in it, you know, when you're you're stuck trying to create something new, I think about it like, you know, simple presentation, things like that. And almost like a slicker intern, if you if you have it in that format, knowing that in chat is are prone to want to do a good job and put together good work, but can make mistakes are prone to errors, things that can like AI can hallucinate, right? It can make it may sound so believable, if you say a few confidence, but can be can be inaccurate.(...) And so it's very so important that when you are using it, it's in my opinion, when I'm using it, I like to use it when I feel very, very knowledgeable on the topic, because then I really identify is it is actually, you know, producing the content or the intermission that I'm looking for, or because I know what I'm looking look or it's just putting it together so rapidly fast. It's nice. From a process standpoint, it's helped help significantly too just helping help the drumming up ideas on process. I find it fascinating that just the level of how quickly it's quick lolling and it's turning into essentially becoming more and more accurate, citing more sites on where they're wearing information and stuff like that. Do you have a lot of a lot in your office that are like, equally excited to use it? You must overzealously are you having like curtail the use of AI at all? Or I don't think we curtail it at all. I think I think our folks are always looking for new and innovative ways to do their job and get things done and done. This is obviously one one day that they do that we talk quite a bit about, verifying what you're getting out of some of these systems to make sure it's valid, it's added, it's on point, it's doing what we're expecting it to do. But no,(...) I think we support it. I think our folks are excited about it. And we're seeing it being used more used in our firm. Yeah, our focus is not to use it or to use it specifically differently where the tool exists, it's to responsibly. And I think, as Brian said, encouraging that and working together to have that conversation is what's incredibly important. How do you see that evolve and evolve more into small businesses and business owners zones, like just the economic landscape as it sits today, with some of the new tools and the tools that are out there? Because to your critical thinking and all two types of workers, right, there's ones that will be replaced by robots for robots, the ones that are building them. Look, I mean, I'll answer the what I think is the think-row question first, and then I'll come back with a macro question. A micro question standpoint, I think, makes every business owner more efficient. I think that's exactly why you see it in the small business survey. It helps me get emails out, it how target consumers that I want, that I think some of the new upgrades, it's helped me to do graphic design in a way that I wouldn't do on my own. I mean, some of those types of things, I think it just makes all of those businesses, it just gives them as their tool to make things easier or to make them more efficient.(...) And so, in a community of an union point and a small business standpoint, I think that's the opportunity that exists.(...) Broader than that, I mean, I think, I think it can cure cancer, right? I think it can do things that we cannot, I think it is amazing. And I think we are set for a generation plus AI is just produced. I mean, we are just in the infancy of what is possible here that what it can see, can analytics that it can do or do big data and things that are just difficult for us to be able to be able to the efficiencies that are going to come in comes like healthcare where it can design(...) drugs that are specific, you specifically or or thing along those lines. I mean, the information of cars and using a so that you know, you can utilize infrastructure perfectly. There are obviously fewer accidents where you have AI, AI having cars or at least protecting people from people in accidents, those type of things. We are set for a generation of intonation. That is, we are living we are in the best point of the world. Beyond that, start to get two generations or three generations in worry about what we talked about before, when we forgot some things that were critical, where we turn over that responsibility to the AI and allow it to make decisions. And I think that there is some degree of incredible responsibility for the people today. And I forget who it was that said the war is more important to leave to the generals. And in this case, I believe that AI is too important to leave to the even years.

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There was something that you said either morning that was really inspirational. And I wanted you to kind of show kind of on the podcast just about about the overall resiliency of business owners here in Nevada, and for everything that we think you kind of moving forward as an economy that we always reinventing ourselves and becoming better for it.(...) Are there any future few projects or more or I guess things that coming down the pipeline that you could potentially talk about that you feel are going to continue to finish our economy fonder word in the best possible way? Look, the question that I got asked in the breakfast bread was, you know, hey, look, as you're looking forward, what are the reasons to be optimistic?(...) You know, you know, and the answer to that is there are so many of them. There are just so many, I mean, the quality of life that we have to hear in Southern Nevada compared to Paris anywhere else in the United States is just unbelievable.(...) Right? I mean, the opportunities that exist, all of those type of things for workers, for business, for there is a reason that we tend to rank among the nation's highest people moving here because they're coming, they're including with their feet. There's a reason why we remain really high, the best place to start a business. This is a place where entrepreneurs can give us key entrepreneurs. And the default definition of our community is yes, let me see how I can help. We're still taking applications. We want you here. We want to see what you can do ultimately. Like if you ask, I think either one of them, about the pipeline of projects, there are kinds of things out there. There's about $30 billion where the projects that are proposed or under construction auction. I say I am super excited to hear about some of the dial that we're having around expanding and 15 or brick crating and the dialogue between Nevada and California along some of those type of things. I love talking in Northern Nevada about the fact that IAD is really a expert of that dialogue and finding ways to adjust that. Those are the right conversations for us to have. I love the fact that we're talking about the supplemental, Southern Nevada supplemental airport. Am I saying it right? Right, airport. And what it will mean for us in terms of development, I'm excited about building new stadiums. I'm excited about the dialogue, new arenas. I'm excited about the fact that the convention center is expanding. I'm excited about the fact that we are now leading the entire United States in terms of sports related activities. And that's drawing all kinds of things to our community.(...) More than anything else, when I was in that room with, I don't know, I don't know, 200, whatever it was, small business owners. The thing I think gets me most excited about the whole thing is looking into the base of the people who are there. To the folks that survived September 11, the great recession, they survived October, they survived COVID, COVID-19. They're still here. They love being here. And they are in that room because they care about their business and because they care about that community. And they have demonstrated resolve and they love being here and all those things. And I think that of itself, if you see that in our community and you look at where those businesses are, you don't see optimism in that you can see that people moved here because it was a better for them and for them and namely for their kids, or you don't see it. They expanded their business here because here opportunity was here. Then you're just not looking very closely. That is what made our community unbelievable. And I think that same degree of risk-taking entrepreneurship, the willingness to make an investment, the willingness to say, "Hey, you said we can't do the kids." Watch us. Watch us try. And you look at the things that we have that we're able to do. I mean, by how many times, through time, our career, somebody said, "Oh, yeah, they're never going to be able to do that. It's not going to work," or whatever. And we are today, right? Here we are today, as a community. When people said, "No, September 11th, that's it. Let's say this is never coming back." And we all walked the strip during COVID, over the most eerie experiences of my entire life, right? You ride your bike by like Mandalay Bay.(...) We all did it. We all did. We all did it. You didn't see it. You didn't see it. Once in a lifetime opportunity. Right? But those are not the things that define us. What defines us is entrepreneurs willing to make investment.(...) Local government, state governments being supportive of businesses and employees that are, you know, they believe in what this community is trying to do. And they, you know,(...) they want the opportunity for it to be for their kids too.(...) Well, and we'll talk about also some of the challenges that we have as a, like, education, health and care, right? Some of those bigger topics. What in your opinion are some of things that people that can do to help participate in creating that long-term change so that that continues to get better? Well, look, I mean, look, there's no easy answer to that. I mean, I think, number one,(...) understanding that it's an responsibility now. It's not somebody else's responsibility to make sure we're responsible about water or that we're investing best in infrastructure, that we're doing something along those lines, right? But there's a big difference

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not being part of the problem and being part of the solution, right? And when you think about the good work that's being done by done looks like the, you know, like you're best seawalled over at the chamber or, you know, the good things that are happening, particularly like at Clark County, I mean, I mean, they're just doing some pretty incredible thing today. You know, when you look at things like things like that and you think about the fact that they're sort of buying into the idea that we can find a way to make big checks get done and just think about things the way. You know, the other part is I probably have to have a pretty serious conversation and say, we want to be, there's a fair number of people in this community that would like to have close to the door behind them when they move in here, right? And they're thinking about, oh gosh, I don't know whether I want the net person to move in because, you know, seeing that orange cone on the road or motor, you know, I can't build as big of a swimming pool as I once was able to do. I will think this dialogue is coming up thing us as we're going forward. But, you know, I think we all have a vested interest in saying this prosperity that we had paid forward to the next generation and finding a way to way involved, right? Come to a network, get to know folks, get involved in the process, get involved all chambers, find a way to make a difference and make your voice heard. Look at the breakfast that we had. I mean, how many people came up and just said, hey, look, I'm looking at challenge with workforce or something that who can I talk to? Ask those kinds of questions because there's folks there. Like, you know, I think in particular, I make crews with workforce connections. And then this guy knows more workforce than any person in the state of this that it's not even close to be an instant resource in somebody that's on speed for folks. And I think when you utilize that as an opportunity, that's where it's, it's where good things happen. I think that's the struggle that a lot of businesses have is how finding understanders and what names do you need to have into Hadolladex? Do people say people are all the Texas they should? Yes, they do. Yeah, you do you have one? Not really. I think it's in my phone. Maybe I can get me on Amazon. But it's all about collaboration. But having those contacts, those members as business owners, we've talked about that in previous podcasts with with other businesses that said there's powers and understanding who your councilman is and for your district and knowing who the only folks are and them knowing who you are as a business business as a voter, you know, what problems you're having. And that's their job there to kind of help you figure out so out ends and them being closer to to some of those issues through you as a business owner actually makes a make difference. Yeah, being a patient is important, right? It makes the difference that it's easy to kind of sit in the background and throw stones, I suppose. But, you know, getting engaged and get involved collaborating all of that that tends to pay dividends in the long run. I think I think if there's anything that we can be doing as a community, it's extending our circle.(...) Right? I mean, it's the same 500 folks that we see on we see everywhere that we go and, you know, I mean, a small state like ours, our, you know, legislators and local council folks so accessible, and those type of things. But there's some they're incredibly talented young people, people out there, and they are doing doingly really good things. Get them out in front, giving them the opportunity to learn. I mean, look, mentorship and opportunity meant so much and helped us grow. And I think, you know, finding opportunity for those folks to be graded into the community to find a way I serve because what I find as much as money else is, you know,(...) people just people know where that opportunity is. And if you just go to them and say, hey, and say, there's this opening on this board, I think it would be really good to do that do then they're like, yeah, yeah, me in. But sometimes you just need to be the one who's willing just that I will tell you who is better than that are my mentor that was better than that better than anybody else's Dallas on. Right? Right. Um, that's true. You want to talk about a guy who has a special gift for a dent of a dent talent, and then saying, say, hey, let me help you help find a pathway where you can be where you can grow, you can spread your wings, you can do these type of things. Let me help you do that you do. Um, no matter am I and I've tried to emulate him, you don't know that I'll ever be as good as good as he is at that. But maybe that's part of the ethos ethos organization, right? Lifting up the community, balancing all the things that we things from Dallas, right? Balancing, tellingology and touch, never getting away, when a personal relationship that real that is matter, identifying talent and how those folks grow. Um, I have to tell you, it's made all these friends to me and our business. And I, I, um, I hope it is the same as others. No, I can know every more he definitely has done that. And I can think of just a few stories that personally that I have, we have, there's been mentors and folks and have essentially picked me out of to me proud and said like, Hey, you would be good for this, or you should go for this for I do think that's something that we often lack to do with the old that you get is identify that time and just make sure that they know know that they are talented and then point them in the direction of really allowing them to shine. Just get so busy with everything that you're doing. It's like, you know, it doesn't come doesn't get nature sometimes. When I walk away from people, I'm like, I really tell them that they're pretty fantastic and that they need to put themselves in a position where more people notice some of the great things that they're doing. We've really made that a priority of our business.(...) Yeah, really made that really important. Definitely trying to put folks out there and get a more engaged and engaged and

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lever their expertise and skills in ways that obviously benefit our firm, but really in ways that in ways that benefit them in the long run too. So we try to do that whenever we can ever. So how did you get into the public speaking realm? That's a question that I just have personally that I've always wanted to ask you where you're a consulting business, you help people identify feasibility on like, should move forward with this project? Is this going to make sense? How do we kind of put it all together? Right. But then how did that translate into you, you stage being charismatic and charming?(...) Both. She's talking to you. No, you both have this, honestly, when you moved to the Raiders and you started doing the

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round table events or economic accounts, it was like, had Jeremy all over again. His name was Brian. So I, some people even think that. Yeah. How did you, how did you guys get into that? To be honest with you, credit has to go to Summer Hollingsworth. Do you remember Summer? Used to run the old, the OBA, again, a great mentee to have. What a terrific guy, a community.(...) He asked us one time or me, one time, would you come and present to this? And we're like, okay. I mean, it was scary and you didn't know what you didn't get.(...) But some of us, it's the same story that we've told you we play through. Somebody asked us, and I remember, right, Senator Reid telling me ten times early on that it was early on in his career. If two people would ask him to come and, he would come and speak every rotary, code rub, every whatever. And so, and so, remember that. And, you know, he tried to emulate it. If somebody came in and listen, somebody would say, oh, those guys are pretty good at that. And then we learned really fast. If you're going to talk about numbers, you have to make it interesting and you have to at least make an effort to be fun. Because if you're not, they are going to fall asleep, never ask you to come back again. Again, I think, you know, once you kind of look at it and let's be perfectly clear, we've, I've bombed, Brian has never bombed. I have bombed a few times, and you learn, like, I'm never doing that again. Like, that joke didn't work or work for it was. And, you know, no, you want to give people good information. You want to give them things that things are to them. Right? And, you know, I read a book recently about how to speaking in some of those type of things. And the, my main takeaway from this book was, you know, you know, the story that only you can tell. And you've got to make it somewhat personal. You've got to talk about the things. And plus the story that we can tell is based on all of this data that we're collecting all of the time. Some people come to us and I'm sure they say this to you because I think I've done do it before. How do you keep all your numbers? And you have like, how do you remember? Because we're doing all day long. Right? Just like a mechanic that can take exactly everything that's in the engine. That mechanic is spending all day, all day thinking about that and how the systems work. In a car, we're just thinking about how the system, the system in an economy. Right? And so we live it every day, that story, we're good, good telling. And I think Brian said it earlier, which is something that we've really emphasized with our team. And that is being creative relative to visualisation, right? Finding all ways to show people what a piece of data looks like. Looks, I will tell you, there are some people on our team,(...) Melanie Swick, Rebecca Rilar and others, I shouldn't just rip off, rip us in, I'll leave somebody out. Just so incredibly good at that. Really encouraged it. And you know, we actually get together with our team every month and have people think about different ways of way rising data, be creative, think about something about something. This has been incredibly crucial for us as an organization. But that speaking came from chance saying, okay, we're not going to let you down. We're going to try and crush it because we're not representing review, whether it's, you know, pre-do or Las Vegas perspective or even or something like that. We're not there for us. We're there to make them look good. And I love it when, when it's something like from, you know, that says, wow, you know, that made her look, look good for that event or, you know, you go to a breakfast and I have somebody come up and say, I'm glad that I came to this brand of this because I got a lot of information out of it. You know, I think Terry is very, very when he goes up and says we want we add value. That's why we're doing do we want to give you something that you can take away with, whether it's the survey or some economic updates or something. We want to review that. And I think care so much about delivering that for our client that I think that I'm through in the presentations that we get that we fair. I think that's great. And that's, that's exactly it. Yeah. Yeah. You guys have the same brain. I feel like, actually, I could totally tell the idea guy and you're the executioner. Like you're like, I love the love to love those two ideas. Yep. I'll take that idea, that idea. And we'll run with that. That is a very hard time. That's a hundred percent. That's fine. In the dynamic I have, we have a, we Emily business same thing has and comes up with, honestly, on a gives her, I'm like, I'm my brain. But that's so many. And then I'll be like, then I'll you said one, and I'm going to take that one and we're going to do that. So the banker and the secret and they have it figured out. Is that what you're telling me? Exactly. Okay. Good. The real numbers. So last question, question.(...) What is, is a guiding principle that you have you business owner that you kind of follow that all want to share with people listening to this podcast?(...) Yes. As we, we probably have the same one. We have a couple as my guests, but that's one that we always come back to when we're making decisions in the front is, is it the right thing to do? I think that is a hundred as a right. He took mine. So I've got to come up with a different right. See, that's why I went first. That was good. That was good. Look, I, I'll mail one that's probably equally personal and professional for me. Uh, uh, just be where your feet are. Right. So often, uh, we're thinking about thinking next thing or not present, make the moment that you're in the best that you can be. That project is the only matters in that day. That conversation, that lunch, that intersection with an employee is the only thing that matters while you're sitting in the room. And I think, um, the competition of what Brian said, which is obviously the best answer. Um, and the idea of being, being your feet are as much as you can, not missing the moment. It's really things that are important to us. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. That the right thing and be where your feet are are very, very good. I will try to follow as well. Sometimes my feet are one place and my head is another.(...) But thank you so much for being on through the door, the insider's perspective on Rev business. If you liked what you heard, make sure that you subscribe. And I thank Brian Gordon and Jeremy Aguero, Muke Applied Analysis for being our guest today.(...) Yay. Thank you, Megan. That was so good. That was really good. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah.(...) Did you guys get a lot of flack for the, for this tax thing? Oh, God. Yeah. Really? I, when was that in what year? 2015.(...) Really? I don't remember. So, um,(...) if you want to, do you want to move your closing just one more time? Oh. Yeah. Hold up the survey. Oh, okay. Okay.(...) Okay.(...) Okay.(...) Do they do? They do. I'll just, I'll call me only. You can only, oh, this from me.(...) Resurvey. I say resources slash survey. Yeah. I know. Okay. Okay. Okay. So don't pick that up. Pick. Okay. So where are we to start? So just say, um,(...) how did you, how did you, because like, well, that concludes our, our episode. Thank you for watching. Yeah. Um, so just your what did I just say? Yeah. I remember. Okay. We'll do it. Okay. Got it. No worries. Well, thank you, Jeremy and Berman for being on this podcast today. This is through the door, the Doan Siders perspective on running up in Renes. And if you are interested in downloading our small business survey that we recently came out with, out collaboration with applied analysis, you can find that on nsbank.com slash survey.(...) Thank you and have a good day. Good day.