Episode: 37 - Libido in Menopause: Is It Even Possible?

In this episode of Taboo Talks, Not Safe for Brunch, hosts Coralie, Amber, and Vicki dive into the complexities of perimenopause and menopause, discussing its impact on hormones, mindset, and sex drive. They break down common misconceptions, provide practical tips on managing symptoms like vaginal dryness, and emphasize the importance of communication and intimacy in relationships during this transition. Whether sharing personal anecdotes or citing expert advice, the discussion aims to empower women to reclaim their pleasure and navigate this life phase with confidence. Tune in for a refreshingly candid conversation on breaking taboos and celebrating midlife sexuality.

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Transcript

Vicki: [00:00:00] Perimenopause and menopause. Get a seriously bad rap like your sex drive. It just vanishes overnight. But the reality, it's messy, unpredictable, and yes, frustrating at times. Still, it's also a chance for desire to change shape, and find new rhythms. Today we're digging into the real deal hormones, mindset, and what sex looks like in this transition.

Coralie: Yeah. A lot of people hear menopause and they think it means like game over for their sex life or just sometimes even life.

Vicki: Right. Yeah. And I think that, there are varying degrees of symptoms. I don't know that everybody experiences menopause exactly the same. It's, variables. So I think that for one woman, menopause could look, less traumatic and then to another, it's absolutely mind blowing.

And that fear alone can be paralyzing and add in all the physical shifts and libido can definitely take a hit.

Amber: Once you get curious and understand what's actually [00:01:00] happening, there's room to reclaim your pleasure and maybe even surprise yourself, right? Yeah.

Coralie: Welcome to Taboo Talks, not Safe for brunch where nothing is off the table. We're diving into real conversations about sex, relationships, and self-discovery with zero shame and a whole lot of sass. 

Vicki: With over 55 years of combined experience in the intimacy industry and plenty of real life lessons, we are here to break taboos, bust myths, and serve up unapologetic.

Real world education, one brunch convo at a time. 

Coralie: I'm Coralie tuning in from Vancouver. I'm a married mom with one foot in the Empty Nest club. My superpower is going deep down rabbit holes and getting to the real root of things. 

Amber: And I'm Amber. I'm based in Ontario. I'm married. I'm a mom, a gma. And proudly blunt, I [00:02:00] cut through the fluff and get straight to what matters.

Vicki: I'm Vicki and I'm from Manitoba. I'm divorced reentering the dating scene. I'm a mom to two grownups, and my magic is creating real connection because intimacy starts with trust. 

Coralie: Grab your mimosa, your matcha, or whatever turns you on, and let's dive in.

Vicki: So let's talk about the hormone rollercoaster and tips because I am like in the thick of it right now. In the thick of it. And it is very unpredictable. Sometimes your desire is really high and spikes, sometimes it gets really low. And, I know personally I never heard about the desire spiking and, oh, that's.

That's what's happening here. So don't fear, don't fear everyone. But what happens is, you know, it's all like this hormonal change. So our estrogen is dropping, and while that's dropping, we're starting to go through estrogen withdrawal, which is a whole bunch of other stuff. But, the testosterone doesn't decline [00:03:00] as quickly.

So it actually supports the libido staying, a little revved up. And then also too, you can have, stress, sleep issues, , mood shifts. 'cause mood shifts are huge in menopause and perimenopause. I mean, really we should be starting with perimenopause 'cause that's when it all begins.

But that plays a huge role in your sex drive. I mean, no one's horny in a bad mood.

Amber: Right. Well, and that's where, where I'm sitting right now. And I know I have mentioned it to you guys and I actually mentioned it to my therapist and my husband, but what I noticed recently is, was a few weeks of time, not altogether, but like little pockets of time where I just looked at my husband and it didn't matter what he did, didn't, he could have been just sitting there all happy.

He could have been eating an ice cream. Like it doesn't matter what he was doing. I wanted to punch him in the face. He, did nothing wrong to me. He did nothing. I told my therapist this, and I think I, I mentioned it to you guys and I was just like, man, so no. Will my libido be high and will [00:04:00] I wanna do things at that moment? Likely not, but I do see it going like waves. It's like, oh, woo, okay. So I do see that that's happening, so I'm not mad about that.

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Vicki: Yeah, and my perspective is completely different. I've been post-menopausal for about six years now, and, , my desire and libido. I don't know that it's ever been higher, so , I feel like I'm a little bit on the other side of that spectrum. I mean, that second divorce may have helped, but, in general, I mean, it's just something that is such a, it's an integral part of who I am now.

And making sure that my needs are met is something that is incredibly important to me. And that's postmenopausally not even paired. So I think that spectrum is very large,

Coralie: Yeah, and it's interesting because all, for the most part, what we heard growing up was doom and gloom about menopause. And yes, I'm not saying it's all, peaches and [00:05:00] cream, but it's, it doesn't have to be this horrible thing. I mean, really they haven't been studying it until more recently.

Everything has been based around the male body, so. We have just a whole bunch of stuff that's made us feel like it's supposed to be awful, and our moms weren't talking about it and their moms weren't talking about it. And I know most often. Yeah, and what I've heard, and I know there's so many issues that women can have with their entire reproductive system, but, I feel like for a lot of the women in my family, there's a problem.

We're just gonna rip out your uterus, we're just gonna get rid of it. When, I'm sure that was wonderful for some cases, but maybe in other cases it's not. I've heard about people having bad reactions, after that, and so they don't really know what, so we don't know. What to expect because it can be hereditary, like in what you go through and your symptoms and all that stuff, so we're talking about it,

Vicki: We talk a lot about a spectrum on this podcast. And I think that [00:06:00] this falls in just one more thing that falls in a spectrum. And I do believe you're right that because women were talking about menopause, the only thing they talked about was the doom and the gloomy stuff, right? It was all that they, it was all that they had to draw from.

And I think that now women are so much more involved in their healthcare. They are so much more positively impacted by their sexuality. And taking ownership of that, that it is changing the conversation. I think we're no longer doom and glooming completely.

Coralie: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And you know what's interesting? I know I've talked about this book a million times, but the Menopause Manifesto

Vicki: Yeah.

Coralie: One of the things that just was a big aha for me in that is when we don't know about something, it's scary, right?

So even learning about what to expect with perimenopause and menopause, it makes it less daunting.

Vicki: Absolutely.

Coralie: And easier to manage, you know? So Definitely. So if you're listening, great. But yeah, continue learning. So

Amber: So everybody needs to read that [00:07:00] book,

Coralie: everyone needs to read that book. Yes. The Menopause Manifesto. One reason I really love Dr. Jen Gunter is because she, she's just talking about her books and yes, she has like a subscription based, , I don't wanna say Substack or something like that, but it's not like she's trying to also sell me like a special pill so I just feel like that gives me a lot more, gives her credibility to me a lot more credibility. But yeah. Interesting. I wanted to just touch on the hormonal thing because I've told you guys, and I think I've mentioned it on the podcast before, that I started HRT in late April, and the reason I started it was for hot flashes, which it totally helped with.

I've been sleeping so much better. I don't get the hot flashes anymore, or I think I've had one, maybe two. But what I didn't realize until about six weeks into it was that I felt. Stabilized mentally and that didn't, it wasn't until I realized that I realized how long it had been since I'd felt unstable.

Amber: Isn't that interesting though, because it took me [00:08:00] so long to see and realize what was happening. I would like

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Amber: mood shifts and then I started to pay attention to my cycle, and then I would be fine for a few weeks and I'd be like, oh no, it was nothing. Whatever. And then all of a sudden it's happening again.

It's happening again. And until somebody really, and it wasn't even just me that pointed it out, I think I might have been talking to Vicki and then I might have been talking to, my therapist. And both times we, they were like, where are you on your cycle when that happens? I'm like. Right.

Vicki: That part.

Coralie: Yes. And I think when people start like learning more about menopause and about what the body goes through, they start to realize like, oh, I've been in Perry for a long time. I'm 50. I feel like I've been in perimenopause since about 35, 38, 35, 38. So. Hopefully we're done. Anyways, a couple more little tips before we move on to our next area, but I wanna make sure that everyone knows to prioritize lubrication and vaginal moisturizer because when your estrogen is declining, that's one major side effect is the vaginal dryness.

And I [00:09:00] know here in Canada we have a shortage. I've talked to so many clients, it's takes up to a year to get referred to a gynecologist. And in that timeframe, things are just getting drier and drier and drier. So please get a vaginal. Moisturizer,

Having a vaginal moisturizer, and I'm not just talking about a lubricant, but a moisturizer will help keep things moist. I mean, it's a moisturizer, but if it continually stays dry, then that's where people are getting into the situation where they feel like their labia is disappearing because it's.

Kind of sucking up as they go through that dryness. And then I've had, you know, more and more recently, like every week I'm getting a message about so much dryness that there's tearing when they wipe after going to the bathroom, that sex is painful. This moisturizer, the, yes vaginal moisturizer, it is the one that my clients are loving.

We're gonna make sure it's on the website. And, what's great about this is you can get it in the bottle or you can get it with an applicator so you can insert it internally. And, it will keep you moist internally for up to three days. Up to three [00:10:00] days. Yeah. So yeah. And then just the other thing I would add onto that is it's really nice for you, just for your mental health, physical and all that other stuff, is don't use your sex lube as your moisturizer.

Right? You don't wanna get those mixed up in your brain like health. Good times, you know? And that helps too. But anyways, yeah. And so just be patient. Make sure you're moisturizing. Moisturizing. A lot of times people will think, or even their doctors will say, you have a UTI and it's not, it's just that dryness.

'cause that dryness is that itchy and uncomfortable and burning, right? Anyways, moisturize and experiment with where you feel you're at in your cycle when it comes to your intimacy and your dryness.

Vicki: Let's talk a little bit about, just navigating through some of this because, you know. Knowledge is power, as you mentioned, and I think that sometimes we can lose confidence in ourselves and our bodies and who we are as a woman. It just, it really can knock us down and I just, I think that, our body changes.

They can shake our confidence. It can make us feel like our bodies are not meant. For [00:11:00] that purpose anymore. And it can really weigh on us. And sometimes we're gaining weight or we're, sometimes we're taking some hrts and it makes us feel puffy and it makes us gain a few pounds here and there.

And we just put so much effort into that thought process instead of just accepting ourselves as a mature person. Many will find freedom. From some of the fears though, like the societal pressures and pregnancy and all of that, , what a relief that's not necessarily something you can be worrying about.

Now, I will say if you are in perimenopause and you have not received your post menopause diagnosis yet, don't chance it. That's where those 50-year-old pregnancies come from. Alright, don't do that. It just puts you into a different mindset. So now sex becomes fun because you're not necessarily worrying about everything.

Exploring new fantasies or sex styles can open. Some doors, right? Maybe your body has changed and it likes sex in a different way, in a different position, in a different space, whatever that looks [00:12:00] like. Maybe with different items, I don't know. I just figure it out and take the time to explore and see what feels right.

And menopause isn't a shutdown. I think that's probably the biggest thing that I want people to hear. It's like a rebrand. So sometimes it's got some awkward first drafts and there's a little, test and try again and test and try again. But that's the fun part anyway, isn't it?

Amber: I think so. I don't know. I don't, I'm not mad about a rebrand.

Vicki: No, me neither. God, I feel like we've, we just get better.

Amber: Right.

Coralie: Totally.

Amber: exactly what you like. Maybe you're kind of figuring out what you don't like anymore and you're changing it up.

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Vicki: Yeah. I agree. I think that you look back on what you did or you liked or didn't like, and sometimes even that confidence level of who we are in our younger years, it's, we don't feel as confident to take control, right. And have our needs met the way we want the met, or express that we want, things that we want.

It just [00:13:00] feels great too. I call it my give up meter. It's really low. I'm sorry if I hurt your one feeling, sir. But this is what I would like and this is how I would like it. And let's, let's collaborate, 

Coralie: I've found lately, it's just been more adventurous. You know, and. Honestly for the last probably three years, like my husband used to always be the initiator, and in the last three years it's totally switched where I'm the one initiating most of the time.

And yeah, we're just exploring new things and trying new things and nothing crazy, but just, we've been together since the last century and you get into kind of vanilla routine sometimes, and we're just trying different flavors, I guess.

Vicki: I love that. I think that that speaks to that growing together as a couple that you know, you're with the right person when you can, adjust and modify and navigate through that. I think that that's incredibly. Cool. It's not something obviously that I have in my life 'cause I just feel like I'm teaching somebody new [00:14:00] something, somebody new.

Something new all the time. But I mean, not all the time, but I just feel like it's, it's always like a new page and I'm okay with that too. I love watching people who are in relationships and can really find a way to navigate through, the changes. I just think that's kudos.

Check. Good for you guys. 

Alright, so you know there, there's lots of myths around, menopause. And one of them is that it means that we have zero libido. It actually, interestingly enough, around 50% of women report the same or increased sexual desire postmenopausally.

I'm here to tell you that's true. Okay.

Amber: Well, and I think that. This number is probably higher. If and when we start to realize the mood shifts and the things that are happening with our body,

Vicki: Yes.

Amber: that you would find that this is a higher percentage and the more research that's being done, and the more we talk about

Vicki: Mm-hmm.

Amber: I think more and more women are gonna realize that, oh no, my libido hasn't really dropped. [00:15:00] Uh, my mood's a little off,

Coralie: Yeah.

Amber: it's hard to navigate. Right.

Coralie: And also too, , I remember when we did, an episode about the libido reading some studies, and one of them said that Libido for women is typically lowest in their thirties. And I can't remember if it said twenties and thirties or thirties and forties, but it was basically when you're in your childbearing, your child raising years, right?

You have so much responsibility. It has to be like served to you on a silver platter, sometimes to get you to focus on sex and desire in your libido. Whereas when you're, kind of beyond that. Stage or even just, even if you didn't have kids, you're just kind of a little, hopefully less stressful time of your life than your libido's oh, hi.

Hey, remember me?

Vicki: Yeah.

Coralie: I do remember you, friend. Come.

Vicki: thanks for coming around. Um, I think you are right and I think it's about having more grace with ourselves too as we age. We just [00:16:00] accept that there are changes and as long as we have a supportive partnership, whomever we're with in a sexual way. Or in a cohabit way, as long as we can adjust around it, gives us that confidence that we're gonna get on top of that.

It's no big deal, right?

Coralie: Yeah, and just make sure you're staying moisturized because you're not going to have a higher libido if you are in pain, if you're dry and itchy.

Vicki: that's right. Totally. So some tips around menopause and sexuality and feeling, , a libido boost or maintaining a libido boost is, pelvic floor exercises, your kegels, they can boost some sensation and orgasm,, intensity. So just some small, little things you can do daily to,, it all adds up.

Right, just to support the libido. , You can explore new types of pleasure, try some toys that are designed for midlife bodies, some sensory play, massage oils, temperature play, to spark some curiosity. We've been talking a lot about that lately, you guys, so I think, , it just speaks to, again, being comfortable in your skin and just allowing yourself to figure it [00:17:00] out.

And of course, practicing open what communication with your partners about what feels good, and what's different now with your body and even theirs. And just honest conversations are gonna build intimacy and reduce some of that awkwardness. 

Amber: So let's talk about keeping the desire alive when you're having all these mood changes, right? It's like up and down and around the corner and around the bend, and God knows what's gonna happen next. But menopause can bring all of those emotions like crazy, right? So it can impact your desire. And learning to navigate those mood shifts with compassion for yourself. That is huge. It's key. Ha. You know, sometimes I just gotta be like, today's just not the day.

Vicki: Yeah.

Amber: That's okay. But then we go back to that communication where it's like you need to also have that talk with your partner because they might think, well, oh, she doesn't want me anymore, or she doesn't, whatever. And that's not necessarily the case. You just have to have that open communication where you're like, [00:18:00] listen. And I even told my husband, I'm like, I wanna punch you in the face today. And it's, you did nothing wrong. It's okay. Um, tomorrow will probably be better.

Coralie: I just wanna know too, anyone listening. I say, I wanna punch you in the face too. Like is this a, what is the trend on this? How many people say this? Where did we start becoming? So, because I would never,

Amber: I would never either.

Coralie: it's like, I wanna punch you in the face. Who else is saying that, Vicki? Is that your go-to or we just secretly desiring violence.

Amber: Maybe that's the shift in the bedroom that needs to happen.

Coralie: Yes.

Amber: So we wanna also explore new ways to connect. Right. Um, whether that's massage, a little bit of rough play, um,

Coralie: hair Pulling. Hair Pulling.

Amber: Hair pulling, you know? Right. Yeah. Um, but also too, with [00:19:00] perimenopause and menopause. A lot of people will, have like new joint pain, aches and pains like that kind of comes along with it and you think, holy crap, I'm getting old. But maybe find different tools and aids that can help in the bedroom as well.

So like angled pillows and sex chairs, right? We've all seen it. If you haven't seen it go on Netflix, is it still on there? How to build a sex room,

Vicki: I

Coralie: It's, it's, yeah, I'm on. I watched it when it came out, but I'm gonna rewatch right now, so,

Amber: Oh, okay.

Coralie: yeah, it's still there. It is. So good.

Amber: And that could be a really great way to watch with your partner and be like, would you like that,

Vicki: Yeah.

Amber: not like that? Like, it's just, it opens up communication, to watch something like that because you just, you see their rooms being created and what they like, what they might not like and that kind of thing.

So I think that's a good way to explore.

Vicki: love that show so much. , I wanna touch on what you said about, you know, aches and pains. It's really kind of funny because I've been going to the gym a lot [00:20:00] more lately because my hip flexor blew out at golf and, but it's affecting me. In other areas. So I have been strengthening my hip flexor and I just think, you know, there are things that we can do also that are gonna make us feel better physically during menopause, including just, you know, targeting areas that are hurting and strengthening your body and feeling, more capable.

And it just, I just want to throw that in there,

Amber: Just moving alone, like

Vicki: Liz.

Amber: I went through some really rough stuff at the beginning of the year. I was not moving. I was probably depressed. There was things, too many things happening.

Vicki: Yeah.

Amber: And just recently I started to, we, go out walking more and I've actually been walking twice a day now and it's like, wow. That's amazing what a walk will do.

Vicki: For your brain, for your body, like for everything. Yeah.

Amber: Yeah. So as much as you don't feel like it, seriously force yourself to go.

Vicki: Agreed.

Amber: What's one thing that you [00:21:00] wish more people understood about the emotional side of that midlife intimacy?

Vicki: That it's different for everybody. There is no map, there is no one way. And I wish that more people talked about all the different pieces of it, so that. Women could figure out sort of not what box they fit in, what genre of menopause are you in? You know, where do you

Coralie: Right. Yeah. I have a couple, you know, one is sort of along that same line as I. We get into this better, worse, better, worse. And it's not about it being better or worse, it's just different, personally for me, it's better, but it might not be like that for everyone. So it's not better or worse. It's just different, you know? And it doesn't have to be this black or white thing.

There's just a whole bunch of gray area and we learn that by talking. And the other thing, . Is if you are with a partner who will never [00:22:00] go through menopause, they should be listening with you. They should be learning with you. They should be knowing what to expect. And it's important too, for you both to learn.

'cause they're kind of going through their own thing. They go through hormonal shifts and changes and midlife as well. And when you understand what the other person's going through, it makes you a lot more empathetic. It makes you closer, it bonds you, and just makes everything better.

Vicki: That goes back to that whole thing of having grace for each other, having, navigating through it in your way as a couple.

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Vicki: Yeah, I love it.

Amber: Now just a couple of, tips to keep everything moving and keep things intimate. Try new forms of sensuality that don't have to lead to sex. So think like slow dancing, cuddling, playful, teasing, things that aren't leading into intercourse really, because if you can just find ways to reconnect, have like a pleasure date with your partner, where you're just gonna connect and there's no orgasm, there's no sex.

It might be, you know, tickling, [00:23:00] teasing, doing that. It might just be a cuddle on the couch and fall asleep

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Amber: Find ways to reconnect to each

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Amber: the thought of sex. 'cause a lot of us are thinking, fuck, I don't wanna do that tonight. But you don't have to get rid of the intimacy if you're not going to do it as often.

Coralie: Mm-hmm. I also think too, that it doesn't even have to be. Reconnecting like it's just. Connecting. 'cause sometimes, I mean, if you've been in a long-term relationship, sometimes you might get this feeling like, oh my God, I've been with this person for two decades, three decades, whatever. Like, how much more can I learn?

How much deeper can we get? And then you, it's not even that you're disconnected is that you're connecting, but you start connecting on a deeper level and you're like, holy shit.. I didn't even know that we could get that deep. It's just because we're always growing, changing. We're changing, and so if we're changing, we always have things to rebond over, bond over new [00:24:00] things because we're changing, their changing and anyways.

Yeah. I just wanna say, it doesn't have to be even just reconnecting, connecting deeper, you know? Mm-hmm.

Amber: So this phase might be confusing and frustrating, but it also is a chance to rewrite your sexual story.

Coralie: Yeah, and it's okay to not have all the answers yet. I mean, this is a journey. There's no deadline.

Vicki: And if anyone tells you that it's the end of your desire, you just tell them we said, uh, nope.

Coralie: Mm-hmm. Send them a link.

Amber: Thanks for pulling up a seat at the Taboo Talk. Not Safe for Brunch Table. If today's chat made you laugh, think squirm, or all three. Do us a solid like follow and leave a review. It's basically the podcast world's version of a good tip.

Vicki: Want more juicy, unfiltered conversations? Tap the link in the show notes and sign up for our weekly newsletter.

Your VIP pass to what didn't make it on the air. [00:25:00] 

Coralie: Brunch isn't just about the bites and bubbles, it's about showing up real raw and ready to talk about what really matters. So until next time, keep it bold, keep it curious, and definitely keep it not safe for brunch.