Episode: 43 - Real Talk on Breast Cancer: Sex, Scars & Self-Love After Treatment

October means Breast Cancer Awareness Month, but we’re not here for fluffy slogans and pink ribbons only. In this episode, we’re checking our boobs (literally), busting myths, and having the real, raw, and intimate conversations that often get left out. From mental health to body changes, pleasure, and communication — we’re diving deep into what survivorship actually looks like.

If you’re a survivor, supporting someone, or just here to learn, this is a conversation worth pulling up a chair for.

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Transcript

Amber: [00:00:00] October means breast cancer awareness month. And yeah, this is your reminder to check your boobs. Seriously. Hands in the air. Grab 'em. Do it. But we're not stopping there. These ladies on YouTube, they're grabbing their boobs. They're ready. So we're diving into this stuff. No one likes to say out loud how treatment messes with your body, your head, your sex drive, even how you show up at work. We're busting myths, telling the truth. And yes, we're going to get a little intimate. Because surviving breast cancer isn't just about making it through. It's about reclaiming your body, your confidence and your pleasure. So pour a coffee or a mimosa if that's your vibe. Settle in. This conversation is gonna get raw, real, a little sassy, and absolutely worth having.

Coralie: Welcome to Taboo Talks, not Safe for brunch where nothing is off the table. [00:01:00] We're diving into real conversations about sex, relationships, and self-discovery with zero shame and a whole lot of sass. 

Vicki: With over 55 years of combined experience in the intimacy industry and plenty of real life lessons, we are here to break taboos, bust myths, and serve up unapologetic.

Real world education, one brunch convo at a time. 

Coralie: I'm Coralie tuning in from Vancouver. I'm a married mom with one foot in the Empty Nest club. My superpower is going deep down rabbit holes and getting 

Amber: to the real root of things. And I'm Amber. I'm based in Ontario. I'm married. I'm a mom, a gma. And proudly blunt, I cut through the fluff and 

get straight to what matters.

Vicki: I'm Vicki and I'm from Manitoba. I'm divorced reentering the dating scene. I'm a mom to two grownups, and my magic is creating real connection because intimacy starts with trust. 

Coralie: Grab your mimosa, your matcha, or whatever turns you on, and let's dive in.

Vicki: Breast cancer treatment [00:02:00] doesn't just end when the hospital visits due. It reshapes how survivors experience, touch, and intimacy and confidence. 42% of survivors report new symptoms of sexual dysfunction after diagnosis and treatment. Survivors who undergo mastectomy without reconstruction are less likely to be satisfied with their appearance. Only about 59% reported satisfaction and that dissatisfaction directly correlates with the lower sexual function. And those two stats were from the ALS of palliative medicine. Now these numbers show what survivors already feel. Scars, asymetry, and changes in sensation are minor details. We're using the quotations on that. They can shift how someone sees themselves, how they show up with a partner and how they reclaim their own pleasure. So there are some realities when it comes to treatments and body changes like surgery realities. The lumpectomy, mastectomy, or reconstruction, they all come with physical and emotional trade-offs. Nothing is free. [00:03:00] None of them restore the old normal that we hope for or that we maybe even anticipate. There's also a possibility of some sensation shifts. Some nerve damage, scar tissue or swelling can make touch feel different, sometimes numb, sometimes hypersensitive, so it can be polar opposites. Reclaiming some control, small practices like massage, gentle touch or body mapping exercises can help survivors explore what feels good again. And of course there's a typically a hormone disruption. Chemo and radiation can lower estrogen, and testosterone. Tanking energy and desire. Intimacy may look different using toys, lubricants, or mindful touch to explore new pathways with your new body. Intimacy again thrives. When partners learn to talk openly about reassurance, consent and shifting, boundaries around that would be a huge worry. Will my body be desired the same? Surgery and treatment can of course make people feel disconnected from their [00:04:00] bodies. Whether it's lingerie, a new outfit, or mere affirmations, finding small ways to feel attractive again, really matters. Celebrate your wins. 'cause intimacy doesn't have to mean sex. Sometimes it's about rediscovering joy in the little acts of self love.

Amber: Yeah, so I can personally, relate to the surgery. I actually. Uh, last year, had a lumpectomy and I was told by my doctor that she basically assumed that she was like, this looks like cancer. If anybody's familiar with the BI-RADS rating, I had a BI-RADS of five, which basically was 95% cancer. So I was walking into this going, okay, I have breast cancer. I was a super rare case, um, where it wasn't, but the whole time that I was going through these procedures and getting the biopsy. People were telling me like, I'm so glad that you came early.

You know, the age dropped for a reason. We caught this [00:05:00] early, and they're saying all these things. So it, it's cancer. Like my doctors, like, we're totally expecting it to come back as cancer. Like she's, I need to be told real, like, don't do the optimism things, just tell me how it is. , So for me, that made me feel, comforted. Just knowing what I was walking into. And then I got a total complete, messed up response where it wasn't breast cancer. And thank goodness that it wasn't, I still went through the lumpectomy. I still have the scar. , I have pain in my breast all the time, and it goes with my cycle. And just in that like scar area and where it is. And if it's, you know, touched or moved or too hard aggressive, it hurts. So you have to have that conversation with your partner when you've gone through anything like this. So yeah, so it turned out it was a really rare tumor, and we're just monitoring and making sure it doesn't come back.

So

Coralie: And we were so glad. It was just a rare tumor.

Amber: it's a rare,

yeah, 

Coralie: was stressing [00:06:00] last summer, you guys.

Amber: it was a very stressful summer. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Vicki: Yeah, it was. Um, and that really speaks to the whole communication with your partner. , You know, all of that. You just said , it is literally something that, you know, you are getting a result. That looks different than you assumed. Your partner may be responding in a way that feels different to you because they may be like, yeah, you got this, this, it's not cancer, but it's this. You may have been like, it's not cancer, but it's this, you know, like that's the other thing is that you, you have to make sure that you're on the same page as far as how you are feeling about it, so that your partner can empathize in the way that you need.

Amber: and that's, kind of what happened in my case where, you know, even the doctor, like I went into the doctor's office when we found out that it wasn't breast cancer, and she's like, it's just, it's just a fibromatosis, it's fine. And my face was like, no, there's something more.

And like there's still something wrong.

And she's like, you should celebrate. Go out and [00:07:00] celebrate. And my husband and I both left there and he looked at me, he's like, what the hell was that?

You know? So, but family, friends, they were all like, oh, thank goodness. And they just moved on and I'm like digging deeper, going, no, I need more answers 'cause this is something else.

And it happened to be, what's called a desmoid tumor. So really rare two to four in a million get it every year. And it's normally in like your abdomen and stuff like that, so it's really rare to even be on your, breast. But, I had to advocate and get seen in other, locations and confirm that that's exactly what it was.

So, yeah, for me, I didn't stop stressing even after I was told,

because I was like, no, I know there's something more to

Vicki: Mm-hmm.

Coralie: I think also too, there's something to be said, like, I mean with their medical profession doctors, you know, like, oh, great, close the book. We're sitting there holding onto it all. And then we have to go do our own research because, and I'm not doubting that the doctors, you know, they have the school, they know their stuff, but I'm the only me, [00:08:00] right?

So of course I'm gonna still research it and wanna make sure and bring things up for my doctor. I mean, I've never been in the breast cancer situation, but different, you know what I mean? It's just good to do that research and find those communities like I know you did with other people who have, you know, similar story because you can learn so much from them.

Amber: yeah. So, I mean, not to like just. Count, you know, breast cancer, anybody going through it, because I mean, I'm glad that that wasn't the case for me, but I know, , firsthand people who have gone through it and have had mastectomies and, you know, they've gone through everything. And then just the aftermath, it never 

ends. It never end.

Coralie: Yeah.

Vicki: Well, and let's talk about the mental load that was experienced just from the diagnosis while waiting or just from the suggested diagnosis while waiting for the diagnosis. I mean, there's just so many. You go to the worst places in your brain, of course, right? So anybody who's in that waiting stage, that's horrific.

That's [00:09:00] horrific. And that is the, the experience is going to imprint on you in some way.

Coralie: Tom Petty wrote a song about it. Waiting sucks so much. Waiting is the hardest part.

Vicki: Also true that is not wrong.

Amber: So we're gonna dive into some mind games, myth busting and just. Underrepresented experiences, so mental health myths and experience that often get overlooked. Mental health is often the invisible side effect of breast cancer. Survivors are significantly more likely to struggle than the general population.

Anxiety risk is 33% higher depression, 35% higher, and sexual dysfunction is 27% higher. And that comes from . PLOS medicine, 64% of breast cancer patients develop a mental disorder post-diagnosis versus 38% of people without cancer.

Coralie: That's incredible.

Vicki: Well, I mean it's that [00:10:00] whole what will the diagnosis

be? What, when you get the diagnosis, then what's the next steps? Then the anxiety around the treatment and what our life is gonna look like. Will we have one?

Coralie: And I can only imagine too, you know, say everything goes great, wonderful. You get your treatment, you're given the all clear, the anxiety about it coming back, like, just a lot.

Amber: Yeah, it's a huge gap and it proves that the mental load of survivorship is just as real as the physical one.

Vicki: Hmm. Yep.

Amber: So let's bust some mist you guys. Breast cancer only affects older women. Wrong younger women often face it, and I mean, that's why they drop the age in Canada to 40 for a regular mammogram. It's often more aggressive when it hits younger women. Challenges with fertility, careers and identity are a huge thing, especially when you're younger. 

Vicki: Mm-hmm. 

Amber: Men don't get breast cancer is another myth. That's wrong actually. About 1% of the cases occur in men, but stigma and lack of awareness. Delay [00:11:00] diagnosis.

Vicki: Yeah. 

Amber: Myth number three. Mammograms are excruciating, so why bother? The truth is most women rate the pain from a mammogram as mild as a four outta 10, similar to a tight shoe or mild headache. In fact, 94% say they'd go back even if it was uncomfortable. So did you guys, I know you've all had, you both have had mammograms.

I've had a mammogram, MRI, all the things. was it excruciating?

Vicki: No, no. My last one wasn't the best. I had a trainee. But everybody has to learn. But it wasn't excruciating by no means. I would say it was worth it because I did have to have a secondary, and I am going for the, the triple threat next month. I'm gonna do it until they're happy with the results.

Coralie: Yeah, I just had my first one last year and I actually booked it the day Amber got her results because when she said that, it's when I went, oh shit. I'm 49 and I've never had one. 'cause it's one of those things you think of and then you forget. So I [00:12:00] booked it that day. No, it was not, I mean it wasn't, you know, glamorous.

I also had a trainee, but I'm always like, let the students learn on me. I don't care. Um, it wasn't uncomfortable, but I find this so funny because who's saying that they're excruciating? Because I'm gonna guess it's the same people who also say, getting a chunky or cervix cutout is pain free. I feel like those are the people.

Amber: and I do feel like though, and I mean if anybody different sized breasts, right? If you have a smaller sized breast, I'm sure it's a lot harder, a little, a lot more uncomfortable, maybe even painful, only because you really, they really gotta pull. And I've talked to people with really small breasts, so a man. Like same kind of thing. You're pulling a lot and I know like when I went my last one, they, the girl, like the woman was just in such a rush and she just like pulled my skin along the plastic

and I was like, holy shit, like you just gave me plastic burn, but [00:13:00] outside of that, like the first couple I went to, they were just fine.

So.

Vicki: Yeah. And I mean, I suppose the more we have, the more, the more sampling we have to draw from as far as our opinions are concerned. But, I just think that, the benefit outweighs whatever discomfort we might feel in those moments. I don't think, unlike. Taking a cutting of the cervix, which should be medicated with pain

Coralie: Or getting an

ID for example, too. Same thing.

Vicki: or, or an IUD.

Yeah, I think that this scenario, I think that for most people, this is something that we can tolerate, for the benefit of knowing that we're,

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Amber: Agree. Yeah. Another myth. Reconstruction fixes everything. I know that firsthand from a friend, it does not, reconstruction may restore shape, but not sensation. Many women report lasting body image and intimacy struggles. And you can have other problems like, swelling and, lymphatic problems and stuff like that are happening in other areas around the breast area.

So, yeah.

Vicki: Yeah, body image is one of those things that's kind of tricky, [00:14:00] right? Just because everything gets put back. Let's say you have new breasts, you have like, whatever, whatever happens. It doesn't change the fact that this brain. Still reminds us of that person that we were, or that image that we saw, that reflection in the mirror.

Our brain is, she's a tricky bitch.

Coralie: Mm-hmm. I also think too, that's just another reason why I think if you aren't already. Doing the work to detach your self-worth from your body image, start now because it's a lot easier. I've never been through this, but I've been through other things and it's a lot easier to go through something like that when you can still be sad, depressed, and anxious, but you don't think you're a piece of shit human because you don't look the same.

Your self-worth isn't attached to your appearance.

Vicki: Right.

Amber: another myth. Sex after breast cancer is impossible. This is false. Desire may shift, but intimacy and pleasure are absolutely still possible with the right tools, support and [00:15:00] communication.

So guys, have you ever believed a myth about mammograms or breast cancer that turned out to be totally wrong?

Coralie: I mean, I heard they were painful.

Amber: that's the first thing I hear. Yeah.

Vicki: I think that for me it's that at such a young age you can experience, a cancer diagnosis, a breast cancer diagnosis specifically, and that didn't. That wasn't a realization for me until I was into my thirties and I was like, oh.

So I, I think that dropping that age to 40 is so incredibly important because it brings that knowledge forward that this is important to start checking sooner than

later. 

Amber: Yeah. Yeah, I went for my first mammogram, actually, I think I was late twenties, early thirties. 'cause I felt something and I went to my doctor and he was just like, I don't feel it. But for your peace of mind, I'm gonna send you

Vicki: Yes.

Amber: and. When I got there, I was like so scared. And this woman, she was like one of the nurses, she was like, something's going on with our machine.

We might not be able to do it today, dah, dah, dah. I just burst out crying. She took me in [00:16:00] another room. I was so stressed about this whole situation and when I actually went and did it, and I mean, I was more stressed about the results and if there was something there, I think. But I mean, you don't know.

You're walking into something you don't know about. You haven't really talked to anybody. Like I didn't really talk to anybody. 'cause at that time I didn't say anything. It ended up the actual mammogram that time had been, I mean, nothing came back, but also I didn't really feel much squishyness. But again, if you have cysts and stuff, like I know people who have cysts and different painful things that are happening in their breasts.

So it can be painful in that aspect.

Um, but not to a point where it's not worth

going, 

Coralie: Mm-hmm. 

Amber: Now there are some unrepresented experiences though, when it comes to breast cancer, and we just wanna touch on those. Transgender and non-binary folks are less likely to be up to date on mammograms and screenings due to the stigma and systematic barriers. So for trans women. Long-term estrogen therapy may slightly increase breast cancer risk for trans [00:17:00] men.

Chest surgery doesn't remove all breast tissue. As we know, cis men can also get it. So screening is still important. Add in providers who aren't always inclusive or knowledgeable and care gets complicated, right? So you really gotta advocate for yourself, like it's important that you, yourself, are advocating to get these things

done. Plus navigating intimacy after surgery or treatment can look different for queer and transgender relationships as well.

And then we have the Bipoc community, which face higher rates of late stage diagnosis and disparities in treatment access. So black women, for example, are 40% more likely to die of breast cancer than white women often do, to delayed detection and barriers to care what the actual

f 

Coralie: pissed me off

Vicki: Yeah.

Yeah.

Amber: like I have

chills. 

Vicki: We all know where not safe for brunch stands 

Amber: yeah, all three of [00:18:00] us. Yeah. 

Vicki: Yeah. 

Amber: We're mad for you.

Vicki: Mm-hmm.

Amber: Um, younger women, fertility, family planning and career pressures add layers of complexity, often overlooked in survivorship care. So being diagnosed in your twenties, thirties, or forties brings a unique layer of stress. Treatment can affect fertility, disrupt career plans, and add financial strain.

Many young women also feel isolated because most breast cancer support spaces skew older.

Vicki: Yeah. Yeah. There's nothing worse than being in a room full of people that don't look like you, which also goes back to our Bipoc community.

Coralie: Yeah. Good point. Mm-hmm. That would be so scary. Like, I mean, it's scary no matter what,

Vicki: Yeah.

Coralie: I can't imagine the additional stress. Of having littles and ugh, be grateful for your health every day, man.

Amber: Then we have the added complication of intersectionality. Overlapping identities, race, gender, [00:19:00] sexuality, add nuance to intimacy and survivorship journeys.

Someone might be a young queer woman of color, meaning she faces not just one barrier, but several at once. Intersectionality reminds us that survivorship and intimacy challenges aren't one size fits all. 

Coralie: Okay. So let's talk about reclaiming pleasure and confidence because there's still sensuality, intimacy, and self-confidence post breast cancer. So first it's really important to reconnect with your body. Do the mindful touching, the exploring like Vicki was talking about with a partner. Do that by yourself.

by yourself. Learn what you love, learn what you don't like. Find those spots on your body that actually don't have sensation, , I think that's really interesting because I had a surgery recently. I have a spot that has no feeling. It drives me insane. And I think kind of running over those spots it just makes the sensation different. It's kinda like when you lose a toenail. And it's [00:20:00] so sensitive right away. But then the more sort of like that, get into some movement practices, yoga, pelvic floor exercises, stretching to feel good, go to physio. You're gonna get some really great simple exercises that you can do that.

I love stuff like that, whether it's the pelvic floor exercises, physio, because you're getting a workout and you're doing good for your body, but you're not sweating. You can watch a hockey game. While you're doing it. So it's oh, it feels good. I know I'm doing good for my body. And you can multitask while you're doing it.

So those things are all going to help you. Get into a better spot again so that you can get as close to the old you as you remember, and always celebrate the small victories. When you notice a new sensation on that spot that didn't have any knee before that was numb, maybe you notice something new, celebrate that.

Maybe you notice that touch on your vulva vagina is coming back, feeling more, all those little things. Maybe you notice that you are. You're coming [00:21:00] back and that you wanna be hugged like a really good hug. Again, maybe that was something you couldn't tolerate when you were like all stressed out. All those little things matter.

You want to reclaim your sexual confidence, your pleasure, your libido, because it might be shifted, but it's not gone. You can incorporate vibrators, lubes, massage tools, all sorts of other stuff. And one thing I think that's really important that a lot of people don't know, and I didn't know until, you know, in this career, this job, talking to people that a lot of times with the treatment with chemotherapy.

It can, it dries out the body, right? So a lot of women have a lot of vaginal pain as their vaginas and the vulva area dries up. So it's very, very common for women post-treatment to by dilators to be able to stretch that tissue out again. So it's okay to use any of that. It's okay to use a pleasure serum or a lubricant or toys, anything to kind of wake your body back up.

And just make sure whenever you're playing, you're gonna experiment safely with [00:22:00] touch. You're with a person you're comfortable with, you've got boundaries, all that stuff. Make sure that you're telling your partner what feels good and what's off limits. Have those communications. It's the C word we all love here.

So you know, tell them what feels good and what's off limits. You know, your partner isn't going to test your limits until you are ready. To test your limits, reassure your partner. We're talking about this and how it affects us, but it also affects our partners a lot because when we are getting this news that we have this thing wrong and our brain's going somewhere, their brain's going somewhere too, and everyone's checking in on us.

But not a lot of people are checking in on them, right? I mean, of course we're the priority, they need to be reassured. They need to talk about how they're feeling. And that's a great conversation to have with them. And also too, I mean, for me.

For the couple friends, I have humor, playfulness. It's going to ease the tension, help maintain the intimacy. You got those little inside jokes with your honey. [00:23:00] Those are always fun. I can just imagine that if I was in this situation, I would be talking to my boobs.

Like what do you think about what's happening? This is Freddy. This is Eddie. We'd be having a conversation, we'd be talking, and I would probably be making them talk to my husband too, because you're so stressed out. The laughter is gonna reduce the stress. 

Vicki: I had a friend who had breast cancer and she was very transparent about it, and she was hilarious. And there were times when she made jokes that made me uncomfortable,

you know, because it, her humor was her way. Of managing. It was her way of acclimating to the experience that this world was giving her.

And until the day she passed, she was one of the lightest, most incredible spirits I have ever met in my entire life. And I just think that her [00:24:00] humor extended her stay on this earth if she really tried to enjoy every last moment, and she had us laughing until the last day. And I just think that's important.

Coralie: Little gratitude. Gratitude makes the world go round. So some things you can do every day is a little self-care ritual. Doesn't matter what it is, it can be less than five minutes a day.

Maybe you're not a big skincare person. You are gonna do your skincare that day. Just something small that's just for you. That is going to give you your confidence boost. Like I said, don't have to do your hair, your makeup, whatever. It's the little thing that is just a boost to you. Celebrate your body every day, not just, the special moments.

Every day. Every single day. Because your body's the reason you're here. It's the reason we're all here. And yeah, sometimes we wanna be like, what? What? But it's still here. We're still here. So some final steps towards getting into some empowerment. Reclaim that pleasure. It's an act of self-love. [00:25:00] It's good for you. Those small steps, they're gonna lead to big shifts. So those micro moments that we were talking about earlier, micro moments of confidence, micro moments of touch, tiny drops, feel the bucket.

We are always waiting for this big waterfall of something when it's not. It's tiny drops in everything. The tiny drops of good are fill in the bucket. So enjoy all those little moments. and remember to always define your sensuality on your own terms. What we say is sensual or sexy. That isn't true for you.

Maybe, maybe not, but everyone is their own person, so you have to define what that looks like for you. Post cancer. And I think one of the best ways you can do that is by just filling your brain with knowledge, not only about the experience, but from other people who have been there. Because I think when you hear those experiences, it helps you understand your own better.

So how do you guys talk to your partner about intimacy when your body feels different?

Amber: well, for me, I was very blunt and I'm like, this, this is off [00:26:00] limits. This is off limits, this is off limits, but we can do this, this, and this. Um, and I was just open communication really, honestly. Like just being honest. And I'm not comfortable with this, but I'm comfortable with this. Um, and I mean, he was cool.

He was like, cool, we still get to do it. All right, let's go. You know?

Vicki: Oh, the operation's not shut down. Excellent. You know what, you guys, I'm listening to all of the conversation around this and the empowerment behind loving your body and feeling sexual in it. And I'm literally sitting back here thinking, I have had other concerns, other health concerns in my life that have definitely imprinted on me. This one I think would be really tough for me, and I just want to. Say that if there is someone out here that says, or is listening and thinking, there's just no way that I can embrace my body like this. I'm trying so hard, or, or I'm not even gonna bother trying. I get you. Because I think that there's a little piece of me that would just shrink [00:27:00] and I would need the encouragement of my friends, my family, probably a therapist, , my doctors, my, my, partnership, whatever that looked like.

I think I would need an. Credible amount of emotional support to accept the new me in that version as I was going through it. I really think I would struggle with that. I just don't wanna discount that.

Coralie: I, I think that's really normal. I think that's almost expected, you know?

Vicki: I just, uh, I'm li as I was listening, I was just like, ugh. I would just be devastated. I think that our bodies and, our breasts are just such a big part of oftentimes our interactions with a sexual partner. I don't know. I don't know how I would, I don't know how

I'd respond to that and the chances of a partner being totally whatever.

Cool. Like, we'll just, we'll, we'll listen to your, you know, your list of, of to-dos and what's allowable and what's not. And I think that's great, but I think it would be me that would struggle getting past it. Anyway, just my

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Amber: That's fair. 

Coralie: [00:28:00] Mm-hmm. Well, and I think that's too, is why it's important to do the work now. Do something little every day because. No matter what, we're all going to go through something where our body doesn't look the same. And if we're lucky, it's just wrinkles. If we're lucky, it's just wrinkles.

Vicki: Alright. Not safe for brunch crew. That's a wrap for today's breast cancer. Deep dive. And remember, knowledge is power and soul is a little sass when life throws you Curve balls. Whether you're a survivor supporting someone or just here to learn, take a moment to love your body, check your boobs and talk openly about what matters.

Amber: Thanks for pulling up a seat at the Taboo Talk. Not Safe for Brunch Table. If today's chat made you laugh, think squirm, or all three. Do us a solid like follow and leave a review. It's basically the podcast world's version of a good tip. 

Vicki: Want more juicy, unfiltered conversations? Tap the link in the show notes and sign up for our weekly newsletter.

Your [00:29:00] VIP pass to what didn't make it on the air. 

Coralie: Brunch isn't just about the bites and bubbles, it's about showing up real raw and ready to talk about what really matters. So until next time, keep it bold, keep it curious, and definitely keep it not safe for brunch.