Episode: 57 - Double Standards in the Bedroom: Who Made These Rules, Anyway?

Ever been told you’re asking for too much in the bedroom?

This episode was sparked entirely by listener comments, and wow, did they expose some deep-rooted double standards around sex, pleasure, emotional labor, and communication.

We’re breaking down:
 • Why having standards isn’t entitlement
 • The emotional labor women carry into the bedroom
 • Why “just communicate” isn’t that simple
 • The truth about sex toys, shame, and masculinity
 • How performance pressure hurts everyone

If you’ve ever felt judged for how you show up sexually, this episode is for you.

Transcript

 [00:00:00] today. We're diving into the double standards we all live with. The best part, every single one of them came directly from comments on our podcast from oral sex expectations, meaning women are apparently entitled for having standards to why men supposedly don't need a lot of toys, if any.

Vicki: We're unpacking these hypocrisies and more if you ever felt judged for how you show up in the bedroom. Congratulations. You're on the right episode.

Coralie: This is taboo talk. Not safe for brunch. I'm Coralie from Vancouver and I love digging deep and asking the questions. No one will. 

Amber: I'm Amber from Ontario. I'm blunt. Cut through the fluff and get straight to the point. 

Vicki: And I'm Vicki from Manitoba. I'm all about real connection because intimacy starts with prest.

Let's get into it.

Coralie: the first thing we wanna talk about is something that, it's sort of like the Goldilocks rule. You [00:01:00] know, just too much, not enough. And this sort of was inspired by a comment where. Our episode on Blow Jobs, it was very, there's a lot of commentary, very interesting commentary. And in one of them, one of the comments said that there was a sense of entitlement. They got the vibe that we were entitled and we were doing them a favor. And only when she feels like it. And we wanna dig deep into that a little bit

Amber: I feel like we should read the comment.

Coralie: The

whole comment. 

Amber: Yeah. 

Coralie: Okay. Imagine what women would say if men said the same thing about the reverse situation. The selfishness and complete lack of interest in the man's experience is breathtaking. The whole sense of entitlement that she's doing him a favor, but only when she feels like it and she makes the rules is so offputting. then he commented again underneath that. But I didn't even clip the whole thing.

Vicki: Is great. [00:02:00] Yeah.

Amber: I, I feel like there's a lot to be said about this comment. I feel like there's some underlying, insecurities.

Coralie: I, I think so too. My takeaway from that was, so you want her to do it when she doesn't want to

Vicki: Right. Or, uh, the word breathtaking kind of took me aback because I was thinking, you know what, if you just took our advice and washed that bad boy, yeah, your reward would be breathtaking friend. Like, what do you want here?

Coralie: Right. And even if you look into the comments, there was very much a goldilock sort of mentality in the comments where if you love doing it, it's perfect. If you don't, you're like the worst wife ever. And then the in between, and we just face that in every single, when it comes to sex in so many different. Ways, if you have a high libido, you're thirsty, you're desperate, you're too much. If you have a low libido or even like high desire to perform a [00:03:00] blow job, or low desire to form a blow job, you're broken. You're not trying hard enough. You're not focused on your man, whatever.

Even for someone who's sort of in the middle, you're still gonna get judged differently depending on who you ask. Whether you're talking to like partners, friends, tiktoks, whatever. it's a fucking lot. I'm sorry. It's just a

lot. When can we stop?

Vicki: Well, I just think that the fact that there's even an entitlement to judge anyone else is problematic. I do believe obviously that is, it's the way the world works. But, yeah, I'm pretty. Tired of it, to be honest with you, because, you, a lot of the comments were very, they were rude and ignorant.

And the back of my head, I'm thinking, does your wife know you talk to other women like this?

Coralie: Right. Mm-hmm.

Amber: Probably not.

Vicki: Like,

Amber: Let's be

Vicki: yeah.

Amber: real.

Vicki: Got it.

Amber: I mean, I was, I was the brunt of the hate.

Vicki: I.

Coralie: I'm so evil, Amber.

Amber: I'm okay.[00:04:00] 

Coralie: Well, and the thing is too, with a lot of the comments, like they would say things like, they say like, what if your man did that? They do do that. They have standards

like. 

Vicki: Yes. And I want to be and, perform and, be participatory. I want to do that for my partner. Why wouldn't I, I don't understand it. I just, it's lost on me. That's it.

Coralie: absolutely. Yeah. It gives this cultural message that we need to want sex but not want too much sex. There, there's very rarely, there's not an episode where. You aren't going to have, if there's really positive comments, there's probably gonna be really negative comments as well.

And if there's not negative comments, there's just not a lot of comments on it yet, because trust me, it'll happen, you know? Enjoy it, but make it like palatable for everyone [00:05:00] else. Well, we're on here talking about this stuff to make it more palatable

for everyone else.

Vicki: The pendulum swings right, in every scenario. So you're gonna find somebody on every side of that demographic and that idea, and that's what makes the world go round, and that's what creates our favorite C word, which is communication and conversation. Like the fact that there are differences.

The fact that Amber took heavy hate on this one, and everybody wanted to invite me over. Like it was just, it's just ridiculous. There's a happy medium for everything. It's just. I, it's just so dumb. It just blows my mind like,

Amber: and that's why we're covering so many different topics on this podcast. It's not just about specific things, like we're going all out in every aspect of relationships and different forms of relationships and,

Sexual health and all that stuff. So, I mean, are we gonna be everybody's cup of tea? No.

Vicki: no.

Amber: But yeah.

Vicki: Listen, my date card's [00:06:00] super full as it is. I can't take anymore,

Coralie: You're a popular lady.

Vicki: you know, after.

Coralie: It's been really, interesting too because that episode, we were talking about doing things that for the most part, a woman isn't going to orgasm when she gives a blow job. Right? So it's strictly for his pleasure. And women, typically, most women, do not climax from intercourse. So then to say that. It's entitled of us to expect the same in return entitled of us to expect an orgasm. That's not entitled. That's living that standards. And you both should have standards in relationships. We just say, our standards out loud because we wanna make it more normalized for other people and we are entitled to an orgasm every fricking time.

And if it's not happening from penis and vagina sex, then it's gonna [00:07:00] happen another way. Or no one is getting off the damn bus, and that's not selfish. That is basic sexual equality and if calling that entitled makes me royalty, hand me the damn crown, because I will wear it every day and I know you guys will too.

Vicki: Yes ma'am. Yes ma'am. Now, if you're watching this on Sunday, no need to go to church 'cause you just went.

Coralie: That's right. We got holy today,

Amber: , But imagine like the tables would be turned if we were three men,

Coralie: right?

Amber: and I'm sorry, but men have been

talking about it amongst themselves forever.

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Amber: In front of women, even

like, so I know, you know, when we're hanging out with other couples or even younger, when I was hanging out with a bunch of guys, like they talked about it

Vicki: Of course,

Amber: and they talked about what their needs were and how so and so wasn't reading their needs and

blah.

You know what I mean? So like it goes both ways, man.

Coralie: Yeah.

Vicki: Yeah. [00:08:00] And you know, I do think that as a woman, especially as a woman dating, it's very intimidating to men and I understand it, and I try to. Tread carefully in my conversation because I recognize that they're uncomfortable and completely not accustomed to a woman who isn't afraid to ask for her needs to be met.

And I recognize that there's, maybe a little more softness that's required and sometimes you get it from me and sometimes you don't. It really depends on the scenario, but you're right, like we're just saying the things now. And it's just not something that others are necessarily used to.

Things that make people uncomfortable. They get a little defensive sometimes, so it's okay, sir. It's okay. You're gonna be all right.

Coralie: And also too, we should mention there was a lot of really awesome comments from men

Vicki: Yes, there 

Amber: Absolutely. Yeah. 

Coralie: We really should give them their whole episode on how much we appreciate some of the things we've said or how they've said they watch what their partner and it gets them both talking and gives them better experiences and

that just fills our [00:09:00] cup.

Vicki: Yes. Write that down. We're making that episode happen

Coralie: Yes.

Vicki: a hundred percent. All righty. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about, emotional labor Olympics here. Another comment, I'm just gonna read it out 'cause I think that it's important for context. So if she uses her voice to steer him to what she wants instead of starfish, she may find that her satisfaction.

Her experience will be much better than communicating to a store in place of your partner. How sad is it that this particular communication is lacking yet? These women, I think he means us, are perfectly fine communicating to a store for their wants and needs.

There's this running joke about women being a starfish in bed. Like lying there is some kind of moral failing, but here's the part that nobody wants to say out loud, but we're going to, women are exhausted because we're carrying the [00:10:00] emotional labor of the entire relationship.

Let's be real. Emotional intelligence inside a relationship is typically ours. We're doing the scheduling. We're remembering everything we're managing. We're smoothing things over the mental load in general. And then we're expected to turn into Cirque de sole at 10:30 PM on a Tuesday.

Come on. 

Coralie: Yeah. And I see his point about communication. Absolutely, because communication is important. I find and I even had someone make a comment to me about how they get so offended when someone says it's starfish. She's like, I'm just fucking tired. Okay. I'm just exhausted. And, what I've heard quite a few times from clients over the years is they'll say, I have told my husband this.

I have. And then it's it's not, if I'm not constantly directing him and guiding him, he is going back to whatever he thinks were, so it's like the listening, the remembering aspect of it for the long-term relationship, people that are still finding this problem.

Vicki: And remember that women communicate with safe [00:11:00] men.

Coralie: Yeah.

Amber: Right,

Coralie: That is a valid point.

Vicki: I'm just like

done.

Amber: But if you are posting that, you're not listening to your partner,

I'm sorry,

or you are not communicating with them so that they feel safe to communicate with you.

Coralie: Right. 

Vicki: Yep. I love a good student. You know, the dating world is wild enough, but if I can find myself someone who will take instruction well. We're dancing, right? So women communicate with safe , people who they feel heard by and vice versa. Again, don't come at me again guys, but when we are safe people to them as well.

That's where this open communication comes from. So, 

Coralie: Mm-hmm. 

Vicki: um, so carrying the mental load and the sexual load, it's just a lot. Being expected to guide and communicate, reassure you get, we can't do all the things we do. Need, someone to be participatory in some of that. And of course, women in general are touched out.

We're just [00:12:00] exhausted just enough. It's not laziness, it's just that we don't have the capacity for it. It's just a thing, right? When women are tired, it's framed as a lack of effort. When men are tired, it's framed as understandable. Stress. He works so hard.

Coralie: Poor guy,

Vicki: So the starfish stereotype, it just ignores context altogether. Like you can't expect someone much to perform when they've already performed all day. , And maybe they've worn a lot of hats and whatever that looks like. And again, I just think that it's not even so much that for me as it is, it's the expectation of performance.

It's the expectation of taking care of one more thing. I think that that's the part. I don't expect my partner to come home at night. If I had one, I don't expect that my partner would come home at night and fulfill, these million things and do this thing with me. I'm going to, I'm gonna be participatory in that.

And, helpful and conversational and, see how it goes. Right? [00:13:00] Like 

Coralie: Mm-hmm. 

Vicki: we all know that I'm the one with the. Libido in most scenarios. So, I'm thoughtful about that because you might have done a hard tour today. I don't know,

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Vicki: right. But anyway. my point. We do as women though, we feel pressured to keep it fun and keep it interesting.

Sometimes women are in a position of worrying whether or not their partner will go find something more fun. And again, that's an unsafe space to live in and nobody should feel that way we're wearing too many hats.

Coralie: Mm-hmm. And also too, when we're forced to wear too many hats, and a lot of times we pick those hats up without realizing it because they are natural talents, right? So I don't think you get there just because you, it's a, it's both of you are getting you to that point. But, if the woman is doing all the things, , so it's taking a lot longer for her libido, , for the things to happen.

And she just wants to lay there like a starfish, [00:14:00] and he isn't paying attention to any of that emotional labor, and he just wants to get her in bed. He doesn't even care if she's a starfish. She's just, that feels almost demeaning for her. Oh, you can see I'm overwhelmed, but

Vicki: You want what you want.

Coralie: Right. So, and what they don't get is that if she wasn't so overwhelmed, she'd wanna get laid more,

Vicki: Yeah.

Amber: Do some extra stuff,

you 

Vicki: Mm-hmm.

Amber: pick up some of those heads.

Vicki: Right. I'm telling you, it's a lot of emotional labor to meet people when you're single, but it is worth it.

No shade on your husbands. I love them, but I'm just saying I don't know, people are working harder in the courting stage anyway. Right. And, and they tend to be a little more open to the communication, especially, single people because they're, there is sort of an end goal.

For people, right? Whereas you're looking at this is the rest of our lives together and, we wanna be really [00:15:00] cognizant of what each other's needs look like. And I just wanted to throw the single spin on there, but I totally can understand how, the unrealistic expectations for us to show up in a particular way.

And again, keep in mind we are specifically referring to this comment that we just chatted about. We understand that this is not the way all men behave.

Amber: Well, and I love how they used communication 3, 4, 3 times. They used communication three times in, this statement, and that's one of the words that we say

probably on every episode. 

Coralie: the

C word. 

Vicki: so thanks for listening.

Amber: Communication is a lacking. Sorry. All right.

So we got an interesting comment about how there are way more sex toys for women than men. So let me read this comment. And they say a great study would be a survey of the number of toys available for women versus the number of toys available for men. So

Vicki: Yes, we'd have to agree there are.

Amber: [00:16:00] Right?

Yeah, well, that's just it, right? If they're not buying,

people aren't gonna be making toys for them because they're not buying.

Vicki: Right?

Amber: So I mean, women face a ton of sexual pressure, but men absolutely get boxed in it too, right? And a lot of it is invisible, and a lot of it is wrapped up in masculinity. There are more toys.

Definitely we all agree

marketed to women, but not because men don't want or need pleasure. It's because male pleasure is assumed to be straightforward, automatic, and easy.

Vicki: Yep. Yep.

Amber: got hands and socks,

Vicki: Yes, we do.

Amber: but let's, like, I'm not,

I'm not saying it to be funny. I'm just like,

that's what is often thought.

Vicki: I never thought on this pod that we were gonna promote the crank sock, but sure.

It's very inexpensive. They come in [00:17:00] pairs.

Coralie: Well, and also, I think part of that too is because as we're all coming of age, if you've had a son or a brother, you know the stage that

hits, Right.

And that generally is a lot harder to do if you are a female, a woman. So it might be easy when you're 16, but that doesn't mean it's easy when you're 40

and you have high blood pressure.

Amber: Or you want a different type of pleasure because there are different types of pleasure, not

Coralie: Right, exactly. Like how boring like my gosh. I also think too, really, if you get creative, a lot of the women toys in quotes could be men toys too. But

I totally agree that it would be nice to have more options.

Amber: right. I think men are socialized to believe that they shouldn't need

help from tools for pleasure. Right. And you hear it, in place of [00:18:00] like, even for their partner, if they have a female partner, they're like. She doesn't need that, or, we always did events for years and women would come into my events and be like, I can't get anything bigger than him. 

Coralie: Right. 

Amber: Right. It's that insecurity. So then if they're saying that about their partner, they're obviously not getting these tools for themselves.

Vicki: Uh, correct. Yeah. Well, and I think too that it, it falls under that same umbrella of, she just needs me to orgasm. I may or may not have said this out loud to somebody before. If you think your partner had an orgasm every single time you penetrated her, someone's telling you a lie, like.

Amber: Right, and your partner's doing a disservice if she's faking it.

Vicki: That's right. A hundred percent right. That doesn't, we're not serving you if we're lying. And again, this isn't all women. This is some women. There are lots of women that have penetrative orgasms. We're not poo-pooing that, I'm 

Coralie: we wanna hang out with [00:19:00] you. We wanna rub on you. We wanna get your magic through osmosis.

Vicki: No. Wherever you are, show yourself.

Coralie: We're all over Canada. We need the Vancouver crew, the Winnipeg crew, the Sudbury crew just call us. I wanna come see if I

get the magic. 

Vicki: You do, wanna come?

Oh my gosh.

Coralie: But you know what, another point with the men's toys too is that a lot of times they end up turning into this big long running joke, Right.

Like sex dolls, for example. , Just the blow up ones that are funny for bachelor parties or whatever. Like they're just having a good time. Like, and I don't mean having a good time, I mean, just.

Being funny, right? And then they'll have a joke for the rest of their life, or someone will about that person and a sex doll or fleshlight,

like they're not spoken about in a positive way.

I can't think of a man's toy off the top of my head that's spoken of in a positive way all the time.

There's always a joke, a [00:20:00] dig attached to it,

Amber: Right, and that's the double standard, right? Because women, if they use a vibrator, it's normal. It's expected,

you know? And then men, if they use a toy, sometimes it's still embarrassing or weird, or they won't even talk about it.

Vicki: Right.

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Amber: You know, men often get a lot of pressure to perform flawlessly,

get that instant arousal, instant erection, every single time, and it doesn't happen.

And especially as you get older.

Coralie: Mm-hmm. 

Vicki: no. You need to have so much grace in the bedroom or wherever you are. It does require time and energy and grace. I think that there's a lot of pressure. We don't, none of us perform well under pressure,

Amber: Yeah.

Vicki: Especially in the bedroom.

Amber: Well, and when they have struggles with libido or stamina or erection, quality their morale that is treated like failure, like instead of just a normal human experience, and gosh, will you just go to your darn [00:21:00] doctor and talk about it? 'cause there are so many solutions that are provided for you,

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Vicki: Absolutely. Yeah. And sometimes it's as simple as just getting that off your chest and recognizing that this is something that happens to a lot of people and it's not something to completely get in your head about. Sometimes it's just time will tell. Sometimes you're on a medication that needs switching.

Change it up. Right.

Amber: Well, and that's another just double standard there too, because a lot of medications that help men with this issue.

Vicki: Mm-hmm.

Amber: Don't have any help.

Vicki: Yep.

Amber: So it goes both ways for everything.

Coralie: Yeah. 

Vicki: true. Right?

Coralie: Sometimes you just wanna put the whole world in a snow globe and just shake it all up and

hope that can we just settle and be like normal?

Vicki: Well, and I think empathy is something too that we're lacking in general, right? So I think that it's really easy, and I think this works for long-term relationships and new relationships as well. In a [00:22:00] long-term relationship, it'd be really easy to just get really irritated about something if it's not working correctly.

Also in a short-term relationship, if you've got no skin in that game, it's really easy to be like, ugh. Forget this, right? As opposed to being a problem solver and inquisitive and curious and asking questions and how can I help and what can I do to make this, more enjoyable for you? Again, it's a two-way street and I think that everybody has to be sort of in movement with it.

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Amber: men are taught that any kind of exploration, especially anal pleasure, threatens their masculinity, even though biologically it's one of their most pleasure, rich. Areas. And let me tell you, when I have sold some of these items to men, they are super hesitant

and they're like, mm, I don't know.

Ooh, should I? Especially if like, they've never tried it before, right? So they're been told it's not okay to go in that area.

Coralie: Yeah, that it means you're gay

Vicki: Right. You know, [00:23:00] I've talked about this before. The porch sitting porch sitting's for everyone.

Coralie: That's right.

Amber: Right.

Vicki: Porch sitting is for everyone.

Coralie: And even going in the doors for everyone, it's so interesting. How different would society be if no one ever attached a prostate massage to being gay?

Vicki: Be healthier. They'd live longer.

Coralie: totally. And if you think how weird men can be about like what they brag about,

Vicki: Yes. Yeah,

Coralie: I'd love to be in that locker room

Amber: And this is why the toy conversation matters, not because women get more stuff, but because men aren't given the same permission to explore pleasure without shame. At the end of the day, these so-called rules and expectations aren't coming from nowhere.

They're baked into the culture, baked into our bedroom, and apparently baked into our comment section. The good news, the more we talk about them, the less power they have. So keep questioning, keep unlearning, and keep having the kind of sex that actually works for [00:24:00] you, not the internet. See you next

Tuesday. 

Vicki: Tuesday

Amber: Thanks for pulling up a seat at the Taboo Talk Not Safe for Brunch table. If today's episode made you laugh, think or squirm a little, do us a solid follow rate and leave a review. It's the podcast version of a good tip.

Vicki: While we're unfiltered conversations, hit the link in the show note, can sign up for our weekly newsletter.

It's the stuff that didn't make it on the air. 

Coralie: Until next time, keep it bold, keep it curious, and definitely keep it not safe for brunch.