Episode: 65 - Spring Mating Season… But Humans Are Opting Out

Spring is known as mating season in the animal world… but humans seem to be doing the opposite.

In this episode of Taboo Talk: Not Safe for Brunch, we zoom out and talk about the big picture of sex, relationships, and reproduction. For most of human history, sex wasn’t optional. It was survival.

Now? Birth control, financial independence, and social change have rewritten the rules.

So why are birth rates dropping? Why are more people opting out of relationships or kids? And why does that make some parts of society panic?

We dig into the biology, history, economics, and power dynamics behind what might be the biggest shift in human mating behavior in 250,000 years.

This conversation goes deeper than dating apps. It’s about survival, equality, and choice.

Transcript

Coralie: [00:00:00] Modern humans have been around for about 250,000 years, and somehow in 2026, we're seeing more and more people that don't want to have sex date or reproduce. So today we're gonna zoom out, not just on what's happening, but on how we got here. Because this didn't start with dating apps. It started with biology power, and who paid the price for all of it.

Amber: Sex used to be mandatory for survival. Now it's optional and. That changes everything.

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Amber: So like Coralie said at the beginning, we've been around for about 250,000 years. That's a lot of generations of sex.

Vicki: Hmm. 

Coralie: Yes.

Amber: A lot, a lot. And think about, you know, generations and generations, generations. Before we even had like stuff like birth control, there was a lot of

babies happening. 

Coralie: Yes, tons. There's also too, if you think about now, even if you wanted to have kids, you don't even have to have sex. You can have a baby without actually having [00:01:00] sex.

Vicki: Correct?

Amber: which is wild, but awesome

Coralie: Yeah, it's totally awesome. We love modern medicine, but it just goes back to the point like we were doing it, it was only happening from sex before. Now we have options other than sex. Like we can have sex or we can have other options. Yet we're not having as many kids as we used to. Interesting. 

Amber: Interesting. And for most of history, sex equaled reproduction, which equaled survival, right? That's how humanity

survived. 

Vicki: Yeah. I mean I'm sure they were enjoying it at times. In some scenarios. But the core was for sure reproduction.

Coralie: I think if a woman was enjoying it, she was probably shunned a little bit. Right.

Vicki: Yeah. And they really, they just needed more people for the farm.

Coralie: Totally.

Vicki: Yeah.

Coralie: you couldn't opt out back then. You had to have the babies for survival, for the farm, for everything.

Vicki: Not an option.

It's workforce. It's workforce.

Amber: Women carried the physical [00:02:00] cost of sex, though

pregnancy, birth child rearing. There was no real opting out like. Biology or 

socially you were in it. 

Vicki: No. And I even think back to like my grandmother at one point. I remember someone in one of my aunts, my mom, somebody saying, that she was told that she really needed to stop, that her uterine lining was so thin. And I was like, oh, interesting.

So, you know, that's the whole

Coralie: Yeah, she had to stop having sex or having babies.

Vicki: Babies,

like for the, for the point of reproduction.

So talking about women carrying the physical cost. She literally was

told at one point like, enough, you're going to, you're gonna

Coralie: Yeah. You're risking your life.

Vicki: Yeah.

Amber: So I mean, back then it was probably more likely that you would need to stop having sex

also. 

Vicki: Yeah. [00:03:00] Yeah, I'm pretty sure after, you know, 14 kids, you're tired of 'em, so it probably wasn't the hardest thing she did.

Coralie: also like, how hard would that be? Because I imagine whether you were a man or a woman, and I'm just thinking from a woman's standpoint, you still have that biological urge to wanna have sex. You wanna get laid sometimes, right? So if you're told you shouldn't have sex because you can't have a baby because you might die and there's no birth control, and also back then women were dying more in childbirth.

Amber: Yeah.

Coralie: they were getting pregnant more because there was no birth control and just all that you're told not to have sex, but you sometimes need to get laid. Like, how are you gonna stop? They didn't have vibrators.

Amber: Well, and today is different because we do have birth

control. We have financial independence. I mean, partially, but

real like, and social permission to

say no. 

Vicki: Right.

Amber: And especially in this economy, it's [00:04:00] hard to justify having

children. , A lot of people now, they might be having one, but 

Vicki: or They're waiting. They're waiting until their late

thirties and their forties to even start

families 

Amber: Yeah.

Vicki: doesn't leave that a broad window.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

So for the first time in human history, large numbers of women can opt out of sex partnership and motherhood and still

live. 

Vicki: Yeah. Yeah. I can see why men might be afraid.

Amber: What?

Vicki: You know, that whole idea of us not really needing them, but wanting them,

That's gotta bite.

Coralie: Have you guys seen that controversy about the diary of a CEO podcast?

Vicki: No.

Amber: No,

Coralie: do you watch that one? Okay, so, the guy that does the podcast, he just had someone on his show within the last couple weeks and it was an another man. And I [00:05:00] can't remember what the guy's actual career was, but they were talking about sex and they were approaching the question that because men wanted to make sure that their genetic line kept going and women aren't wanting to have kids, should there be some sort of intervention put into place.

Vicki: Uh, Handmaid's Tale

Coralie: Right.

Amber: Wow. Okay. 

Coralie: Yeah, it's just interesting that that's even brought up. And the rhetoric around it is, it was a hypothetical whatever, but

Vicki: Okay, but whoa, whoa. If we rewind, what were the Simpsons saying?

Coralie: yes,

Vicki: Because they're always right.

Coralie: they're always 

Vicki: Knew what he was talking about. Just go to the Simpsons. Let's see how this really plays

out. I am nervous.

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

So with them talking about that and saying that there should be, you know, should there hypothetically be an intervention put into place, it made me immediately think of the [00:06:00] four B movement, which started in South Korea around 20 18, 20 19, 20 20 ish, where the women there were so tired of being paid less of sexual harassment, of nothing happening to the people who are.

Sexually assaulting them of, the lack of equality there that as a collective, they were like, yeah, we're not gonna date men. We're not gonna marry men. We're not gonna have kids with men. A huge chunk of them said that, and this made the news, I first heard about it a year or two ago because it was on the news, because there wasn't enough first graders to have full first grade classrooms because the women were so pissed that they.

Decided they were gonna stop participating. And I'm seeing that happen over here in North America a lot too. And it's making other people mad. It's making men mad. But it's really, it's a survival mechanism for women. It's not about fuck you, it's about this is what I need to live, to survive, and to live a good equal life like you do, you know?[00:07:00] 

Vicki: Right, right. I find that incredibly fascinating, but I think it all rolls into that ideal of, like you said, you know, we want, but we don't need.

Coralie: Right.

Vicki: But we don't need, it's not a necessity in order for me to thrive, to have had or continue to have a man in my life. Obviously I'm not talking about, continuing on, with, furthering the demographic, but. I might be, I mean, I'm also infertile, but whatever. However, I think that, I think it just speaks so loudly to, to that, and I can see why, men are mad. I don't agree with it, but I can see it makes sense because we're sitting here going, yeah, I, I want you, I don't need you.

Coralie: Hmm.

Vicki: That's, that's a tough pill to

swallow. 

Coralie: because for the entire, the way the world run, we have needed them. We've needed them for [00:08:00] status. We've needed them for housing because we weren't equal. Why weren't we equal? Why weren't we equal? So if we were equal from the beginning, this wouldn't be an issue. 

Vicki: And again, you know what? We wanna roll with the change with everything else in this world, but this is the spot where we don't wanna roll with the change. Suddenly, this is the sore spot. 

Coralie: So the global birth rate has dropped. It is currently sitting at about 2.24 children per woman. It's projected to drop to 2.1 by 2050, which is lower than the replacement level of humans. To keep the same number of humans to keep the world going at the level we're at. So it's going to drop within the next 20, 25 years,

Vicki: Wild

to me. 

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Vicki: Motherhood still comes with the physical risk, career penalties,

right? That I just spoke with somebody the other day who made a comment about, we can't not hire somebody, but we also have to [00:09:00] consider what is that gonna look like when she goes on mat leave for a year or whatever, that, this is still a thought process.

The mental load, the unequal domestic labor, which will always maintain it will always be a thing.

Coralie: And if you think about it when it comes to work too, you have a mom and a dad both working at the same office. The mom is a liability. 'cause she's gonna have to take time off if the kid gets sick or if the kid has an appointment. But the dad, because he's married and has kids, he's more stable. He's more reliable.

Vicki: That's right.

Coralie: That's fucked up.

Vicki: Yeah. Listen, who's calling in

sick the day that that kid's sick?

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Vicki: She is. I

guarantee it. 

Coralie: Does the dad even know the doctor's number? Does he know who the doctor is? I mean, that's a whole other episode.

Vicki: Quiet here.

Amber: You, you're walking a fine line there.

Vicki: So equality didn't remove the cost, it just made it more visible. Right now we see it. So when Corley was talking [00:10:00] about the four B movement, it's basically no dating men, no sex with men, no marriage, no kids. So it's not the sex itself, it's the unequal cost of sex. A healthy exchange equals mutual desire, shared effort, risk and responsibility.

And of course, once again, as always, we're not talking about all men and all relationships. We're just saying this is a broad stroke. We know that there are definitely men out there who are doing their part, or are growing within their relationships, within their families, and are, are multiple and that, kind of have that give and take.

But when participation becomes unsafe. Expensive or unrewarding, people just stop

participating. That's where

Coralie: And I think too, we have to give, I'm glad you shouted out the guys that are doing the work, because I think we really do have to give them credit, because I imagine how hard that is, to do that when it's considered unmasculine or toxic or be like, oh, you got a ball and chain.

I think it's a fucking turn on to be honest,

Vicki: well, for sure. And I think that in [00:11:00] modern society we have to look at, okay, who is bringing in more money? What makes most sense? If I leave and go to work and I'm gonna make more money doing that, then that the rules just have to, they, they have to be mobile. It just makes

Coralie: Or even too, fuck I love. The younger generation, 'cause they have more dads staying at home, and it might not even necessarily be about the money. A lot of times they're making equal, or maybe the person who's making more money stays home because they're more, they're just more maternal or paternal, it's just so great that they can make that decision within their relationship.

And it doesn't just fall onto the woman, 'cause some dads are fucking great dads, and yeah, they're great.

Amber: Well, I have a great dad.

Vicki: Yes you do.

Amber: He was always, you know, hanging out, bringing us and doing things, sliding us under cars, whatever. It just happened. I have video evidence, but we had fun.[00:12:00] 

Vicki: It wasn't always safe, but it was a good time.

Amber: wasn't moving. It was just running. It's fine.

Vicki: No.

Coralie: So let's talk about the backlash and what's actually happening, because it seems like the women are withdrawing from the situation and when the women withdraw, the system panics. The system's panicking right now. That's why we're hearing all about the lonely men, the low birth rate, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And, lonely men is phrased in a way, like it makes it sound like it's women's fault 

Vicki: obviously.

Coralie: because everything is a woman's fault, right?

Vicki: Yeah.

Amber: We got big

Coralie: Yeah, totally. Like it was so funny, I had my kids over for dinner the other day and my son's girlfriend said something about how Carson didn't use his manners in a situation.

And I was like, you better use your manners in every situation. 'cause you know what they say if you don't use your manners. What kind of mother. Raised you Right? Well then the whole rest of the night as anything came up, they would be like, and what kind of mother do you have? It was just so funny because it's [00:13:00] true.

Anything that goes wrong, the mom is blamed, the dad is not blamed. And again, in this situation, lonely men, that means the women are making them lonely, and I'm tired of everything being our fault.

Vicki: Yeah, I take no responsibility. I raised good humans. Whatever they did to fuck it up after that is not my

Coralie: Absolutely. And I don't think there's anything wrong with anyone having standards, with men, having standards, with women having standards. We should all have standards. We should have, a bare minimum that like, okay, I can at least be your friend maybe. But in a relation, like standards are important and we haven't been allowed to have standards.

Over the generations and generations and now we are, and now we can, and

Vicki: and now

we do. 

Amber: and now we're being called

out for it. 

Coralie: For having standards. I mean, we've even seen it in our other episodes that we've talked about, like we can't even talk about blow jobs or kind of laying us without people getting mad because we wanna clean dick.

You know, like such a standard,

Vicki: yep.[00:14:00] 

Coralie: Anyways, I'm getting heated. But in all that, with the like standards that creates all these emotional labor gaps because the women are the one dealing with the emotional labor of it, and. The men, unless they're willing to do the self-reflection, which again, we stand the men that are doing the self-reflection, we stand the women that are doing the self-reflection.

We stand anyone who's doing that. Because you have to do the self-reflection, self-reflection, so that you stop being resistant to the change and so you can grow. And what happens when you grow? Generally you get more opportunity, right? Yeah.

Vicki: I think you're right, but I do believe that women in a position of opportunity is frightening to others sometimes. And that is why there's this crazy push pull that happens. I think that women would be happy to be maintaining the human race. If there was , a larger collective of this being [00:15:00] something that the family did together, and didn't quite feel. So alone on an island, and I think that so many women feel like they are on an island, and I think it's weaponized, I go to work and I do this, and I'm still hearing women who say I can't leave because, so there's always that fear.

There's always that I'm stuck. There's always that. So instead of placing themselves in those positions, they're opting out altogether.

And that's not their fault, that's their choice,

Coralie: Mm-hmm. 

Amber: The thought process of, I go to work, I do all the things. Why should I have to do X, Y, Z when I get home? Like you said, it's still a very valid thing that's

happening, and it happened to me not that long ago. Not from my husband, but from my mother 

Vicki: Hmm. Say more now we're in. 

Amber: well, Paul had gotten home after work from something, or maybe it was the weekend, whatever, [00:16:00] but we were doing stuff around the house and it's not like I made him go out and do whatever.

We literally were outside in the backyard, both working on said thing and my mom made a comment like, wow, he works all day or all week and he doesn't even get a break. And I'm like. I'm here too. It's his house too. And it's not even like one time but I feel like, 'cause she's that boomer generation right near the end of it. But I feel like that generation just kind of sees it that way because that's how they were raised and 

Vicki: and it's so funny because I see you, Amber, just as a reference, you are so participatory in your relationship, in your household, in your marriage. When the washer's broken your husband's at work. You're not calling him to fix it. You're not telling you're in the basement, you're clamping hoses, you're figuring out, you're Googling what you need to do.

You've got the [00:17:00] YouTube answer, and you're off to the hardware store. Like to me, no bueno, I'm out. I peace out. I'll call a guy. But you are in it. And I just think that, I think that needs to be recognized. That's all.

Amber: Thanks. I just, I just found it. I found it interesting, but I also see it as the generational

aspect of it. Right. But because she said this thing like other mothers or fathers or whatever are saying these things to

their children. Which is then pushing it down to that next generation or that next generation,

and a lot of us are pushing back, but not everybody.

Vicki: Right. And it does create tension inside a relationship when you maybe have a man who's been taught that this is the role of your partner and this is what this looks like. And then you've got a, a woman who's been taught that you need to stand up. You need to stand on your own two feet. You choose what you want with your life.

And so now you've got these two people who [00:18:00] love one another, who are now at kind of this space and without having a lot of grace and conversation and the ability to feel heard and safe, that's gonna get lost somewhere and that's part of the cycle of problems I think.

Coralie: Yeah,

Amber: Yeah.

Coralie: I heard, a couple interesting stories that came across my life this week. One was there was a woman, she was like in her late thirties, couple kids. Her husband just suddenly wanted a divorce. She'd been a stay-at-home mom this whole time. She signed a prenup. She's been married since she was in her early twenties.

She signed a prenup. She doesn't get the house. He just walked in, wanted a divorce. She gets nothing. 'cause she signed a prenup before they got married, which I'm sure she regrets at this point. But that just made me sad. But then I heard another story and this one gives me hope and I'm sharing it because hopefully this will give someone an idea because I thought this was freaking genius and this is equality.

So this couple. [00:19:00] They wanted to have a kid. He wanted a kid. She wanted a kid. It was important to them that one person stay home with this kid. And, for so many years, I can't remember, two years, five years, whatever it was. But they put together a whole legal document that she still had X amount of dollars in retirement savings put in every month, like basically getting the finances all settled out.

So if she ended up in that situation that that other girl, she still has her retirement, she has her name, she's still getting whatever and not sacrificing because she chose to stay home. And I think that, for the most part, a lot of most people, I would say. I'm not saying everyone wants to be a stay at home parent because that can be really draining, but I think most people do at least want to stay home for those first one or two years.

Where your kid's just like getting to live its life and you're figuring shit out and they're figuring shit out. For the most part. And I think that, I. That it's really hard to do that in this day and age [00:20:00] because there's so little wages and when people do want someone to be a stay at home parent, what's the trad wife thing now?

Well, back then when people were doing it, you had, you know, one wage could pay for a house, a car, a couple of vacations, blah, blah, blah. Anyways, it's just all messed up, but.

Vicki: Yeah, stay tuned for our pro prenup and coha,

uh, episode. 

Coralie: Oh yes, we here.

Amber: We've been here for roughly 250,000 years. For most of that time, sex wasn't about desire. It was about survival. And survival came at a cost, one that was largely paid by women's bodies, women's labor, and women's lives. There was no opting out, no birth control, no safety net, no version of not right now.

Coralie: And fast forward to now 2026, suddenly the rules are different and not because women stopped wanting having kids because for the first time, opting out does not automatically mean poverty, shame, or death. And [00:21:00] instead of asking what conditions made participation so costly for so long, we're calling it a crisis.

When people step back, low birth rates aren't confusion. They're information, their response to a risk. And so this moment isn't about the end of mating, it's about the end of mating by.

Vicki: When having kids becomes a choice instead of an obligation when partnership requires mutual effort instead of assumed access, when reproduction stops being treated as a duty and starts being treated as a decision, some people will opt back in, some won't. That isn't a collapse. Yeah, that is just consent.

Finally catching up to biology.