Episode: 74 - We’ve Been Masturbating Wrong for Decades

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Most of us figured out masturbation before we even understood our own bodies… and then never talked about it again.

In this episode of Taboo Talk: Not Safe For Brunch, we’re getting honest about masturbation, shame, midlife pleasure, body changes, stress relief, partner communication, and why so many women were never actually taught how to explore what feels good.

We talk about:
 ✨ Why masturbation still feels “taboo”
 ✨ The shame many women grew up with
 ✨ Why your body changes over time
 ✨ How self-pleasure can improve intimacy
 ✨ Stress relief, nervous system regulation, and orgasms
 ✨ Why communication with partners matters
 ✨ Why pleasure is NOT selfish

Plus… yes, we talk about the Womanizer 😆

👇 Tell us in the comments:
 What’s something nobody taught you about pleasure or your body?

Transcript

Vicki: [00:00:00] This month is Masturbation May, so today we are talking about none other than masturbation, which is funny because most people have been doing it for decades and still feel weird hearing it out loud. We figured it out in silence, probably rushed it, and then just never revisited it. No one ever said, "Hey, your body changes. You might wanna actually learn it again." So now you've got grown adults who know how to do it, but don't really know themselves, and that's what we're gonna get into today.

Vicki: So quick question, you guys. Why [00:01:00] is it that most of us figured out how to do this before we even knew what we were doing, but somehow made it to our 40s and our 50s without ever actually talking about it? I mean, we've been talking about it for a long time.

Coralie: I don't know why, but I think the word itself is just such a harsh word.

Vicki: Yeah.

Amber: It is

kind of a harsh word. I prefer like self-pleasure.

Coralie: Right.

You know, that's why so many people just call it, self-love. But then if you're talking about, self-love that's not masturbation, people think you're talking about

Vicki: Right.

Coralie: masturbation.

Vicki: A lot of us learned about masturbation or self-love or pleasuring self, um, I think we, I think we learned about it and it was kind of like a sh, like kept secret kinda thing. So even when we were in our sex ed classes, in grades, five, six, we were 10, 11, 12, whatever that looked like, we were not in a position where they were even talking about it there.

So that led us to believe that this was something that we were not to be speaking of.

Amber: Yeah. I mean, I [00:02:00] really started learning about it with, Talk Sex with Sue.

Vicki: Yeah.

Amber: Like, that's where I was like, "Oh." My first toy was recommended by Sue.

Vicki: Yes. Yeah, go back to episode one ever. You'll 

hear, 

you'll hear our,

Amber: You know what? I-- Go back to episode one and then see how bad we were then versus now we got so much better.

Coralie: Just like masturbation. It takes

forever at first,

Amber: perfect. 

Vicki: the more 

Coralie: more you practice,

the better you get.

Amber: Exactly. Exactly.

Coralie: Interestingly enough, I didn't think about this, when I was putting this episode together, but I just looked up where the origin of the word masturbation comes from, and it originates from the Latin verb masturbari, which is commonly believed to be derived from the word manus, which means hand, and turbari, I'm probably pronouncing this all wrong, which, translates to disturb or agitate or possibly defile.

So it's Latin in origin.

Amber: wonder it sounds so [00:03:00] harsh.

Vicki: 'Cause it is. 

Coralie: right? Um, and then the earliest use of the noun in the English language dates back to about 1603. But also interestingly enough, there is evidence of, primate masturbation, I can't remember if it was 40,000 or f- I think it was 40,000 years before there was even humans.

Amber: Hmm.

Vicki: Yeah, 100%. I mean, it feels good for a reason. That's why people go there. It just is what it is, and, we hear all of the messaging, right? "Don't touch yourself. That's private."

Some of us may have even heard, "The good girls don't do that," kind of, kind of language. To me, that's super disturbing. We definitely had with my children the conversation about, you know, that is something that we don't necessarily do on the sofa when Grandma and Grandpa and friends are around, but we can go to our room, we can go to the bath, like we, we can have some

time to ourselves. There's nothing wrong with that. But not that it was shamefully private, just that, it was something that you absolutely get [00:04:00] to enjoy and you get to do that, uh, you get to do that on your own or with somebody down the road, but we didn't say that back then, obviously. Yeah.

So I also think there's some difference in some of the messaging too, right guys? Men, it's kind of expected, right? They're always touching their penis anyway. Like they've always got the... They're, they're al- they're just always doing the things, right? And it was a big joke, right? And it's bravado-ed, like it, it's a cool part of being a man. But for women it's just hidden and minimized and not spoken of. It's shh.

Amber: I mean, I never talked about it with my friends growing up until I got into this business.

Coralie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh-uh. 

Amber: I I never talked about it.

Coralie: Yeah, it wasn't a big conversation in my friend circle either.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Vicki: Yeah. I don't know that it was a big conversation in my friend circle. I'm really trying to think back, but I think that once I was into my mid-20s and had kids, and my friends who had kids, I think we were talking about it.

But I did run with a really forward group, so

Yeah, 

Coralie: we were talking about it once we hit our 20s, but [00:05:00] not when we were teenagers.

Vicki: Yeah. I don't think... I don't know that I have anything that stand out around that. I certainly know that when my kids were, learning, masturbation was not spoken of at all

in the classroom. In fact, they were told, the dictionary, response and that there would be no further conversation about it. So, which again, what's that doing?

It just layers on that shame and

that discomfort around it. 

Amber: Try, uh, going through sex ed in a Catholic school system. Like, mm, we were never... I don't even think they gave us a definition of masturbation

Vicki: Oh, yeah, they probably wouldn't have. I don't think that they did in my kid's school, which was public school, but I don't think they did it willingly. I think that it was because it was a message inside the box of anonymous questions, and somebody had to provide somebody with an answer.

They had my kid who told them all about it in the schoolyard, and he had good information.

It was fine. So again, [00:06:00] uh, when we're talking about masturbation and how, you know, the messaging is different and it can include shame, also like the rushing of it, just get it done, right? So as, as women, I don't know that we are meant to just, let it wash over us and enjoy it and, and feel the feelings and experience everything so that we can discover our own body instead of disconnect from it.

Amber: Yeah. I think that that's really important, to even go into, knowing your body and learning about it by going slow and taking your time, because that's what's gonna help you in your relationship with your partner, right? So...

Vicki: 100%.

Coralie: And I wonder too if, men or young men, 'cause it always just seems like such a rushed thing for them, if you've ever walked in on a man masturbating, it looks like he's ripping it off. So,

Vicki: I don't know who he's mad at. I don't get 

Coralie: you know, and it's like a one d- it's not like this lingering thing that I've heard, that I've heard from men anyways.

So I wonder if [00:07:00] that's why a lot of women think that it should just be quick, rushed, get to the point, which sometimes you need to. I'm always down for come like a man. But, taking that time with yourself is so important, like you 

Vicki: Sometimes masturbating is functional, and sometimes it's there for enjoyment.

Right? So 

Coralie: fun, sometimes it's 

Vicki: yeah. Yeah. So I think, I think that's fair. But I also think that recognizing that neither reason is shameful is incredibly important.

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Vicki: So if most of us learned this in secrecy and shame, it makes sense that we didn't actually learn ourselves. So we just learned how to get it over with.

Amber: Yeah, let's be honest. Some people have been doing the exact same routine since 1998 and calling it a day.

Vicki: Yeah.

Amber: You know, habits versus exploration. We've kind of mentioned that, right? Same position, same pressure, same outcome. Don't get me wrong, when you know what you like, great, but why not explore different things?

Your [00:08:00] body changes over the years. Like,

you need to explore some things.

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Vicki: that our bodies are trainable.

Coralie: Oh, they are for sure.

Vicki: Right? So if we... 

Coralie: have, the more orgasmic you become.

Vicki: That's right. So if we're not, if we're not trying something new and different and seeing how we're, our bodies are responding to it, and it could be that one day your body doesn't respond to that kind of touch, but the next day all of a sudden it's mind-blowing and you're like, "Well, that worked." Right? So

just be open to the difference.

Amber: Well, and the same goes for like when you get a new toy or something that and you try it. Like I have, the f- I think I told Vicki this when I first got a, a specific womanizer or whatever, and I was like, "I don't like it. Like I don't know what you guys are talking about. I don't, I don't get it." And she's like, "What? What do you mean?"

Vicki: Try it again.

Amber: Anyways, I... You know, and it's so funny, right? We always tell somebody like, "At least try it three different times." So I took her v- her advice and my own advice that I give to customers and oh my gosh, my favorite thing ever.

Vicki: Right. Because it's so different, [00:09:00] right? Like when,

when a sensation or a feeling is so completely outside of our norm, we're like, "What do I do with this?"

But if, yeah, if you let yourself just have at her. Just have at her. I'm so crass. Just

have at her.

Amber: Okay, quick pause for a second because we keep mentioning the Womanizer, and honestly, there's a reason.

The Womanizer Liberty 2 is genuinely one of our favorite toys for stress relief, solo time, and those moments where you just need a hard reset from life.

It's compact, comes in its own little case, rechargeable, waterproof, discreet, and uses Pleasure Air Technology, which feels completely different than your traditional vibrator, as mentioned in the episode. Like, once you try it, you understand why people won't shut up about it. For Canadian listeners, Liberty 2 is available on notsafeforbrunch.com, and for our U.S. listeners, we carry another amazing air pulse technology for you [00:10:00] called the Inya Rose.

I mean, we've all heard of the Rose, right? It's on there for our U.S. listeners. All right, back to the episode

Well, we often get stuck in this efficiency trap too, like quick, not present with what's happening. Like we're just like, "Go, go, go, get her done," and we're out the door, whatever we're doing next.

Vicki: And listen, sometimes that's great when you're stressed.

Amber: Absolutely. You could do it a few times if you're female. You

might have 

Vicki: our website. Go on our website, grab that Womanizer, and that's your 30 seconds of joy before you walk out the door so you won't murder anybody.

Coralie: Mm-hmm. It'll, it'll suck the orgasm right out of you so fast.

Vicki: 100%.

Yeah.

Coralie: Like, what just happened?

Amber: I mean, let's be real, we weren't taught like what actually feels good over time, that your body changes, especially midlife. Like we weren't taught that things change, that thing, you evolve into different, pleasures And I mean, who's really teaching masturbation? We need, we need people to [00:11:00] teach 

Vicki: are. We are. You found us.

Amber: We s- That's it. We're doing a whole episode on technique. Stay tuned.

.

Vicki: I, I think about it actually a lot, like we have touched tens of thousands of people's lives with just the three of our conversations, and we know that there are many more people like us out in the world. Imagine if we weren't talking about this We've al- we are already experiencing great change, and the generations behind us are starting to really come into that change as well. And I'm hoping that just like everything else in this world, the stories and the teachings will continue to flow, and that we're just gonna get better and better. And I just have, I have such faith in our 20-something generation right now. I just, I think that they're going to, they're gonna make sure that everything is loud and proud, and I love it.

Amber: Yeah, me So masturbation allows you to have body [00:12:00] awareness, some stress relief and nervous system regulation, not just orgasm, right? I think that that alone is worth doing the deed.

Coralie: Totally. For me personally, I mean, especially since my health issues, I really try and do, like, not let my body be inflamed. And I can control my diet and I can control my exercise, but I have less control over my stress. So when I notice myself getting stressed and I can't seem to get out of that stress, that's my job.

That's what I do. Because, Or if my husband's home, I'm not masturbating, but, you know, if

he, if he ain't around, taking

Vicki: whatever.

Amber: there-- if--

and if you're busy and you're on the go all the time, make sure you have something in your purse.

Coralie: Yes.

Amber: could go to the car and have a little fun on your lunch break.

Vicki: Yeah.

Amber: Get the stress out.

Coralie: Yeah, 

Vicki: Yeah, try... I was gonna say, 

Coralie: things.

Vicki: was like, wait a [00:13:00] minute. What? Where are you going? Oh, that was funny. Yeah. Don't be underneath the video cameras for the security. hilarious. I was like,

what? Oh my gosh. Working 

Amber: just need, what you need is the secret clit. Put it on and then just talk. It looks like you're talking on a, you know, microphone or whatever, 

Vicki: There you go. "

Amber: Da, da, da, da, da," and it's just vibrating while you talk.

Vicki: I love

that so much.

Just a quick commercial break from Not Safe for Brunch on the Secret Clit. The Secret Clit is your new favorite wearable vibrator that comes with a remote control that not only has pulsing, vibration, heating technology, but this also allows you to talk your way to orgasmlm. You're in control

I do think that it's important to remember too, like if we are not learning ourselves, who, who is?

Amber: Right.

Vicki: How can we teach? How can we share?

How can a partner know how to make our bodies feel good when we do, engage a [00:14:00] partner? I just

Amber: Yep.

Vicki: it's

Coralie: Yeah. I think, too, that is a major block still for a lot of women. If they aren't

having the type of orgasms they want, having the type of sex they want, you know, if it takes them a... take- it's taking an hour, 45 minutes to an hour to reach orgasm, they are relying more often than not on their partner to figure it out,

when it's so much better for you to figure it out and then show your partner.

And again, you know, something I always refer back to is if that's a hard conversation to have face-to-face, texting.

Amber: Right.

Coralie: be like, "Guess what I learned about my body today?" You know what I mean? And just, yeah, you will find your orgasms and your sex life will get so much better.

Amber: Mm-hmm. 

Vicki: Yes, I pray for that kind of openness for everyone. I think it's incredibly important.[00:15:00] 

Amber: Yeah, and I mean, some people are uncomfortable having, even just talking and telling their partner where to go or what to do or slow down or... I think you could guide them too with your hand, with your body, into the right places and just be like, "Okay, there."

Vicki: Yeah. And as you're single girly it's so incredibly important to tell somebody what you want, but also recognize that if you are with a new male partner, they have spent probably most of their married or their adult lifetime with a partner who probably was afraid to tell them so- what, what to do, how to do it, what they liked, because not everybody is going to be as open and, and you have to be really patient with that because sometimes they're just like, "Oh, you're gonna do that?

Oh, that, uh, you don't need me." No, no, no. Don't you dare leave this room.

Coralie: Got

Vicki: I will harm you. 

Coralie: Um- Yeah. And I would think too, if you, with your partner, if they are making you feel any sort of shame or, like, shaming you in any way for it,

that's a therapy appointment.

Vicki: Sure is.

Amber: Absolutely. 

Coralie: that there's something wrong. That is [00:16:00] not healthy for your relationship, and that's not healthy for you as a person, and it's not healthy for them as a person either because you know they're doing it.

Amber: Yeah.

Vicki: Yeah.

Amber: Exactly.

Vicki: Very possibly.

Unless that shame is so deep, but

Coralie: And that's still therapy.

Vicki: it's still a therapy.

appointment. You're right. Yeah.

totally.

Yeah, I just, again, I always go back to grace and especially because of, you know, my life now , and I always think about that, as you meet new people and if you become intimate, like it's a real learning experience because, , as a single woman in her 50s, I know exactly what my body needs, but, to translate that for somebody else is difficult.

But

Amber: Right.

Coralie: And you know what? A lot of people- They don't need instructions. They just need someone to say, "You're allowed to do this." You know, sometimes we need external permission, like giving it to ourselves isn't enough. So it's always important to know and to never doubt that you are allowed to want pleasure.

You're allowed [00:17:00] to take time for yourself, and you're allowed to not feel guilty about it. I mean, we are in midlife, most of us, and I assume most of our listeners too, but if you're younger, even better to learn this younger.

We spend so much time, especially as women, prioritizing everyone else, our partners, our kids, whatever.

Even though we're trying to make progress there, and we are making progress there, I think it takes decades for that progress to really be, even-Steven. And our bodies are changing. My body now as a 50-year-old is not the same body it was when I was 20. And thank God, because it took 45 minutes to have an orgasm then.

Now I can do it in one.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Coralie: Like it can change from kids. Even too, if you are in a long-term relationship, you're both changing over time, so it almost makes your re- can make your relationship new again. And newness is always exciting. Or if you're going through a divorce, you're gonna [00:18:00] hopefully have new partners, and it's a great opportunity to get to know yourself better, so.

And it's better to think of masturbation as a reconnection, not a replacement. Like you're not replacing the sex with your partner. You're reconnecting with yourself. Or if you're doing mutual masturbation, that can be kind of fun, you know, reconnecting with each other.

But how many times, like how many opportunities do we have to reconnect with ourselves, for me personally, I can think, when I'm doing the deed with myself, if I'm going for a walk, I found that, like and that's just something newer for me. Or I know a lot of people like go to a spa, which I...

it's not my jam, but you know, there's very few opportunities to reconnect with yourself, and that's a great way to do it.

Amber: Yeah, when it comes to masturbation, I will say that, and this more happened, you know, younger, earlier in the relationship from a lot of people or in past relationships for me, where my partner was like, [00:19:00] you know, insulted

that I masturbate. And I'm like, "What?" Like mad, like I'm cheating on them with myself.

So I just think that it's important Like, I mean, men are doing it, women should be doing it. I just think it's important that you are open and honest with your partner, because if you're embarrassed and you're like, "Oh my God, what are they gonna think that I do this?" And, "Are they gonna be mad at me because I wanna tell them what I figured out?"

Right? So I think that it's important that you build a kind of healthy relationship with conversation 

Vicki: Yes, and you know, there's so much shame around autonomy. I can do this for myself. You can do this for yourself. But there's like this jealousy and shame that happens around being capable of taking care of ourselves, and I should do that for you, and I should do that for you.

Amber: Right.

Vicki: And I think that that's problematic as well because, that's where that sort of mindset comes [00:20:00] in of, "Oh, you do that when I'm not with you?"

That-- Yeah. Yeah, I do. Can you imagine? Like, I just, uh, i- in my head, I just think that that comes from j- it's a mindset shift that everybody needs to explore if they want.

Coralie: Mm-hmm. And also something to consider that I-- this is what I've experienced in, the 20 years and thousands of conversations I've had, and I'm sure you guys probably had something similar, where even men who are in relationships with a very healthy sex life, they are still masturbating.

It's not like, "Oh, I'm having sex, I don't need to masturbate." It's, "I'm having sex and I still get to masturbate." You know what

I 

Amber: Right. Mm-hmm. 

Vicki: Same.

Coralie: So we're all for, um, equality.

Vicki: Yes. Yeah. No, absolutely. And, and again, it's because it could be about stress, and maybe you've caused that stress. Or maybe

Coralie: Right.

Vicki: I've caused your stress and you're like, "I'm, it's, yeah, I'm trying [00:21:00] not to hate you right now." That's okay. I don't care. But again, if you feel that, if there is that jealousy for a- another person's autonomy, that's where that weirdness comes into play and I, I just don't understand why.

I think there's a maturity to it as well.

Amber: Absolutely. 

Coralie: Yeah. It can actually, really improve the partner intimacy and reduce pressure in your relationship. , And I think it can reduce pressure, like if you have to go to a stressful thing, like a job interview, masturbate first.

You are going to just have this different level of calmness about you

if you're going into a situation that's stressing you out, 

Vicki: You're also received better,

uh, and they don't know why.

They don't know 

why. 

Coralie: are glowing and you're just like...

Amber: can't quite pinpoint it.

Vicki: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Before a date? Masturbate.

Coralie: Absolutely. Even, my husband and I, before we go out on a date, we're not masturbating before a date, but we are having sex before our date [00:22:00] because we want... We're, gonna have a more relaxed time on that date. There's no expectations for later. Or even if we're going to hang out with our friends, we know we're gonna be hanging out for six to eight hours, we might get that out of the way first,

you know, because

Amber: Yeah.

Coralie: we're both in a better mood.

Everyone's grateful. They don't know why we're in a better mood. Now you know,

guys.

Amber: this, now they know.

Vicki: everyone knows.

Coralie: Masturbating more, it make the shift from obligation to curiosity. Be curious. Like, for me, when I started masturbating more, it was because I was frustrated that, about the amount of time it took to have an orgasm, and I was determined to make that shorter.

It's not overnight. It took a couple years to be able to do it in less than a minute, but it was fun to try. It was fun,

Amber: It was fun to 

Coralie: a minute wasted.

Amber: get there.

Vicki: journey.

Coralie: did you guys ever feel like it was something that you shouldn't be doing? Like for, like I know in school they weren't talking about it and stuff, but can you remember [00:23:00] a time where you were feeling someone was trying to make you feel shame for it?

Vicki: Not me. 

Amber: think so. I mean, I never really told anybody, so

I had nobody telling me it was bad.

Coralie: Mm-hmm.

Vicki: Luckily, no. Absolutely not. I never...

Coralie: Yeah, it just wasn't talked about, same. So that's probably why we're so awesome.

Vicki: That's

Coralie: no one was shaming us for it, but they weren't praising us for it. Not that there should be praise, but there was no positive conversations about it, but there was just no conversations about it,

Vicki: No, but even in my younger years, I never felt like I'm doing this thing and I should be ashamed. Like, that wasn't a part of my 

upbringing or my chemical makeup. I just-- It was never something for me. I just knew that it felt good and that I, I had the right to do this thing

in a safe environment and, and I'm... Yeah. 

So I'm grateful for that.

Coralie: So this was never just about [00:24:00] masturbation. It's about whether you're allowed to be connected to your own body without guilt and without rushing it, because the one relationship you have your entire life is with yourself. Everyone else can come and go. But you, your relationship with yourself, hopefully is just coming.

So if you're disconnected there, it's gonna show up in so many other places. And You might not think so, but once you start masturbating more and having more regular orgasms, it'll all click. So it's really not selfish. In fact, it's way overdue. And if this episode made you think a little differently or feel a little less weird about it, send it to someone who needs that reminder too.

Or come tell us, what's one thing you've never actually explored about yourself?

[00:25:00]