The World Needs You's Podcast
The World Needs You Podcast is your go-to resource for mindset transformation, self-discovery, and inner growth. Hosted by Shelsea and Chris Novosel, this podcast dives into candid conversations on personal development, exploring how to unlock your full potential and live with purpose.
The World Needs You's Podcast
From Rock Bottom to Redemption: Former NYPD Officer, Keith McGurk’s Story
In this powerful and deeply personal episode of The World Needs You, Chris sits down with Keith McGurk, a former NYPD police officer, who courageously shares his journey through one of the darkest chapters of his life. Keith opens up about battling alcoholism, facing the brink of suicide, and the profound moments that led him to recovery. His story is one of pain, resilience, and transformation as he works to break the stigma surrounding mental health and addiction, inspiring others to seek help and find the courage to heal. Keith’s message is a beacon of hope for anyone struggling, reminding us all that it’s never too late to choose a new path.
Instagram: @TheWorldNeedsYouPodcast
Facebook.com/TheWorldNeedsYouPodcast
Welcome to the World Needs you podcast, where we dive into the journey of mindset, self-discovery and inner growth.
Speaker 2:We're your hosts, Chris and Chelsea Novosel, and we're here to have real, candid conversations about what it means to live with purpose and unlock your full potential.
Speaker 1:Each week, we'll explore the tools and strategies that can help you cultivate a strong mindset, embrace who you truly are and make a meaningful impact in the world.
Speaker 2:Whether we're sharing our own experiences or learning from our incredible guests, we're here to remind you that the world needs what only you can offer.
Speaker 1:So get ready to dive deep, grow and step into your power, because the world needs you.
Speaker 2:All right, what's going on? A little change up on this episode. You got me here as normal, chris Novosel, but we also have a guest today, so Chelsea is out with the kids and we got a guest, keith McGurk. Welcome, man.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you, Chris.
Speaker 2:How's it going?
Speaker 3:brother, good, good, I'm really grateful to be here today.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Well, I'm excited for it too, brother, good, good, I'm really grateful to be here today. That's awesome. Well, I'm excited for it too. And as we started this podcast, we're just everyday folk that are wanting to grow and as we put that out there, we come across different individuals like yourself. Like hey man, I want to share my story, I want to talk a little bit. Hearing a story from somebody like the Rock or hearing somebody from a story just that's living in your area community, saying you know, dealing with everyday stuff is both of those can be extremely beneficial stuff. I'm really looking forward to to having this conversation and digging a little bit deeper with you. See if we can grow a little bit ourselves in the conversation and help others sounds good.
Speaker 3:And yeah, I didn't see the pressure at all. You just put on me, comparing me to the Rock.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's great, yeah, so we're going to try to get past and just grow people even more than the Rock ever could. There, you go.
Speaker 3:Sounds good.
Speaker 2:A little rock bottom action.
Speaker 3:Funny I had to hit that to get to where I am today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, wow, yeah. That is that's crazy. So, yeah, one thing that we do before we start any episode is just kind of share what's on our mind today, every single day, every week, obviously, we go through different thoughts or different things that we're working on, but so what's on your mind today?
Speaker 3:Gratitude, a lot of gratitude, for where I am today and that I have a loving, growing relationship with God today. You know that's something that is absolutely necessary, in my opinion.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That's awesome. I love that, and I think gratitude is something that we take for granted sometimes, you know and that's a great thing to really slow down and think of Do you do anything specifically when it comes to gratitude, like you know, write anything down? Are you sitting and thinking about stuff, or do you just kind of feel I'm not a big journal guy?
Speaker 3:I don't write a lot of stuff down. There's some things in my life, some work that I do, that I do write things down. We'll get into that, I'm sure. But I guess I'm more of an action and then reflection type of person. Before I go to bed every night, you know, I try to make it my goal to look back on the day and see if there's anything I could have done differently. You know, if anything I fell short on and just kind of take an inventory of where I am and experiences of people I met. You know. And again, action and then reflection. I'm president of an organization down here called Smoking Shield South Carolina and we've partnered with a ex-NFL player, ricky Sapp. I played football out of Clemson and we have for the last couple of years fed about 10 families in the Myrtle Beach area for Thanksgiving. And you know I'm a retired New York City police officer. We all know what's been in the news the last few years when it comes to cops and how the NFL got involved and all this stuff.
Speaker 3:So when I heard that Ricky was doing this feeding the poor and he wasn't able to come to Myrtle Beach last year that was kind of where I came in Heard him say that and I had an idea what if I got in touch with the school resource officers from Myrtle Beach? Let them be the avenue where we found these needy families, Let them accompany us on the deliveries and let's build that relationship of community and police Right.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. I love that.
Speaker 3:And it was unbelievable, right, I think. Last year we fed about 12 families and the people that we came in contact with the stories that I learned we did it over two days last year. I mean, if you don't come away from there with some kind of gratitude, there's something wrong, right, there's some kind of entitlement.
Speaker 2:Yeah right.
Speaker 3:And then this year Ricky was actually able to accompany us on the deliveries, so we did all 10.
Speaker 2:So you guys have already done that? Yeah, we did it. You're already set for Thanksgiving, Okay cool.
Speaker 3:We just did it. This past Monday Ricky was here and a bunch of members from my group got together. The Myrtle Beach Police school resource officers from all of the Myrtle Beach city schools identified 10 families and we had two of the SROs that were with us. And again, you know, right in the middle of deliveries you had that tugging on your heartstrings moment where we were pulling into an apartment complex and the SRO was leading the caravan of cars and he stopped. There was a family standing outside of a car. None of us know who these people are, but that was the family we were delivering to, and the reason why they were out there is because the address that we were going to was just what they have on paper so that their kid can go to school. They live in that car.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:And I was. You know that was. That was tough to see. You know the child had some medical issues. Looked like he at one point had a laryngectomy.
Speaker 3:I believe that's when they you know intubate through the throat. So he had that apparatus on the outside so it was visible. You know that there was something medically wrong. He had an older brother there and it was his dad. His mom had passed away and his dad just kind of broke down, you know, put his head in Ricky's chest big ex-NFL linebacker and he just broke down crying. He just broke down crying. And one of the things that I do is I've got three boys. My sons are Carter, sean and Connor, and I have an older daughter, taylor, but the three boys are close in age, they're 11, nine and eight and I brought them with me. I brought them with me last year.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, yeah, I thought that was powerful.
Speaker 3:This year and you know I can't, there's no story I can tell them.
Speaker 3:that will teach them what they learned that night you know, and it affected them, you know it helps them to realize what they have they have. So the action and reflection that night was really easy and ever since then I just have to look back and realize that, no matter what's going on in my life, I'm not living in a car today and I've got opportunity and God's put me here for a purpose and I'm going to try to figure out what that is and fulfill it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Well. Thanks for sharing. I love that man. I really something I kind of feel like it's easy to procrastinate with, but whenever opportunities come I love to jump in and help out. But it's something that I think you know more and more, chelsea, and I would love to to get more involved with. So if you have anything when the next year comes around or need any help, let us know, but we'll do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and living in Myrtle beach, man, it's kind of an eye-opener as well. Like I grew up in a middle, lower class neighborhood, I was, you know, I was around things and but we still I was still very, very, very grateful for the life that I had. I still had a lot more than than most, you know. But living down here, man, it's like I, in the early mornings, I'm sometimes driving and I'm driving past the motels and you got a school bus picking up a kid at motels, like that's something I've never seen.
Speaker 2:Down here you have a lot of that where people are living out of these rinky, dinky motels. I mean, um, or you know, like you said, a car and it's just uh, you know it is sad. I mean you're never gonna fully remove that kind of stuff, but there's definitely more we can do to help and and I think it's very important, you get your, your kids, involved. That's something my kid you know we get in trouble if we ever pass a, a person on the side of the road, uh, without giving them something. So yeah, you know my daughters are like daddy, what in the world, why don't you get? I'm like I don't even know how to answer this, just don't be shaming me. See the same dude on the corner. I mean, you know still needs help.
Speaker 3:Sometimes it's a choice. Sometimes it's a choice.
Speaker 2:I get it.
Speaker 3:But there are those incidents where they deserve and need the help.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and even if it is the same person, no matter if they're trying, they got bad intentions or not. It's like give without expectation. You know if you give to them, you know you can't control what somebody does, but it's, it's the action. So I think it's always a good time of year to to really reflect on that too, like you're saying. So, absolutely so, yeah, you know, it's kind of one way. I think it'd be cool to start just get to know you a little bit. I think when we talk about our story and our journey, it's always good to start where we came from. So you know what? What was your upbringing like? Did you grow up? Sure, anything that was monumental in your life as you were growing up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I actually grew up in Farmingdale, Long Island home of the. Dailers. Cool.
Speaker 3:This is my old high school and, don't worry, I'm not Ed Bundy. I'm not going to tell you the story about how I ran for the touchdown. I wasn't that good of an athlete. It was just a hoodie that I happen to see in my closet. I grabbed it and put it on. But one of two children I'm the older brother. I have a younger sister, kristen, that also lives down here. Fortunately, a lot of my family lives down here now. But yeah, kind of same thing.
Speaker 3:I grew up in a middle-class neighborhood. My father was a local county cop, a Nassau County police officer, so I grew up as a cop. You know, that was, definitely, without a question, a childhood dream. As I grew up, I didn't live the life of somebody who was going to be a police officer, so it delayed that process for me by a few years. But God had a plan, right, that's kind of what I've learned in the last 46 years that God had a plan.
Speaker 3:My mother was a schoolteacher. She went back to school to achieve her degrees. When my sister and I were old enough to get ourselves off the bus in middle school and take care of each other, mom went back to class and just kicked ass she was. She finished with like I think it was like a 3.9 or almost 4.0 GPA as a full-time mom, bringing kids back and forth to CYO basketball and Little League baseball and, you know, staying on our ass to make sure that we were doing our stuff. You know, and I wasn't an easy kid, you know, I was always trying to get away with stuff.
Speaker 2:So your mom was on you more than your dad was.
Speaker 3:When dad got involved.
Speaker 2:You know it was serious. I got yeah, it was serious. Yeah, it's how it is in here too.
Speaker 3:I don't even so. This is funny. I don't even so. This is funny. I I don't even. It's never been confirmed that this story actually happened, but this is the way I remember it. So I was in second grade and I did something stupid and I think I was like showing off in front of friends in the bathroom or whatever, and somebody in the bathroom went and ratted me out to the vice principal damn rats I never found out who it was but um, the vice principal, who was like the authority one in the school.
Speaker 3:He called home and I come off the bus. My father was a county cop and back in the day they didn't make any money so all cops had second jobs. My father was in construction and he was doing a dormer on our house and at the time when I got off the bus, you know my house was known as the Amoco house because it was Amoco styrofoam surrounding the whole outside before they put the siding on. So that's. You know that was a little. Oh, you live in the gas station house, you know the Amoco styrofoam, but you know. So dad was out on the scaffolding putting the siding up and I get home from school and my mother right away sends me to my room. You know, because they got the phone call today and the way I remember the next part, nobody's gonna ever tell me it didn't happen this way. Right, my father climbed in through my window off the scaffolding oh my god and scared the crap out of me never had to lift a finger.
Speaker 3:I never got beat. You know there was no belts involved. It wasn't an abusive household. But my father was a six foot three cop, you know solid. He won the megaphone award in my little league because he was the loudest voice in the sideline. He was just a big, just dominating person, and so you know, here I was, second grade, looking up like, oh my God, dad's walking in through the window.
Speaker 2:Oh, my that is hilarious.
Speaker 3:So that was the kind of that was how he was. But my mother was always on top of us for homework and all and and all this stuff. You know school and grades were very important. You know, graduated from farmdale high school uh back in 1996 and uh it back in 1996. I can't believe I'm gonna be out of high school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, were you trying to hide that?
Speaker 1:yeah, I was like, I think I already said I was 46 too, so I don't know what I'm hiding, but um, but after that I I stayed home.
Speaker 2:Those are the good days man yeah, there was before social media now we sound old, like we used to get away with right yeah, right, stayed home for school.
Speaker 3:The first year I went to a local state school and and I think that's kind of where everything started for me. You know, in high school I was for the most part I was kind of a good kid, like I wasn't really getting a whole lot of trouble. I'd have my my days here and there. I wasn't really allowed to do a whole lot. You know, I didn't have a one o'clock curfew in high school, like you know, some of the kids I knew did. I didn't. I never went to the bleacher parties on Friday night. I wasn't allowed. So when I went to college I had a little bit more freedom, right, I was treated like an adult, kind of come and go as I please, and I did not know how to handle it and I went. I just took all liberties and I started finding alcohol. I was drinking pretty regularly.
Speaker 2:So were you not drinking in high school or anything like that?
Speaker 3:Not really A few times here and there.
Speaker 2:it wasn't a whole lot, so let's stop there real quick, where you, when you look at that, like just in in, you know you've got all different dynamics of raising kids and all this and you had mother and father very involved. Mother, you know, worked her butt off, kept you in line. Father, saying he jumped in and and was a good role model and jumped in when he needed to. But there was a level of, I guess, strictness where you said, just, you know you weren't able to freely do, I guess, maybe what you would have. Do you? How do you feel? Because you need that? You need because I came from where my mom was the main one raising me.
Speaker 2:I kind of was able to get away and do whatever I wanted. Sorry, mom, love you, but that's just what happened. But you know there's lessons I learned from that and I still, when I got to college, was still, you know, partied like a rock star. But you know, when someone's trying to, we're not going to be perfect. But when we're trying to find the great balance of raising our kids, I guess what would you, or what are things that you're trying to do in raising your kids today? And finding that balance of strictness and teaching them work, ethic, at the same time giving them a little bit of freedom.
Speaker 3:Man, that is a that is a tough question to answer because, you know, I I judge myself pretty heavy on. You know the type of parent I am and, uh, I catch myself sometimes trying to be their friend, you know, trying to get along with them. You know that way, and sometimes that comes with maybe giving them things that maybe they haven't earned or don't deserve. And then sometimes I look back and I'm like, ah, it was probably a little too hard on them.
Speaker 3:You know, I didn't give them enough grace. You know, they're still young.
Speaker 3:I don't think I'm ever going to be perfect at it I really don't but what I do, and what I have been, is I've been very honest with my kids and I've been very open, kind of like you know, taking them on that delivery the other night, showing them, you know, almost like decisions kids is that you know when, the quicker they learn that decisions have consequences and they're the ones that have to live with the consequence, then I've done my job right. Because I don't think you know, standing over them pointing in their face is going to change their behavior?
Speaker 3:because it didn't for me, you know, like I still tried to get away with plenty when I was in high school but compared to what I did in college, it wasn't even a fraction. You know, because I still had those parents at 18, 19 years old when I was home from school. When I was home, you know, going to school at home, they were still in my, in my face. You know they were still not approving of, you know, driving drunk home, like they were still not approving of getting a phone call from a police officer that found me in possession of narcotics. You know they were not approving of that, but I still I kept doing it. You know I wasn't learning the consequences of my actions. You know I wasn't, or I just wasn't paying attention to them.
Speaker 3:You know so that's the most important part for me is that I always I lose my cool real quick. You know I have a very bad temper, you and me both.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have a very bad temper, that is something I've really, really been trying to work on, even like hyper. Recently I've got something, you know, hanging on my refrigerator that basically says and by this time I should be able to recite it, but of course on the spot I can't. But basically, you know, someone who reveals all of their feelings is a fool and someone who holds it together is the wise one. And when I just lose it on my kids like they're probably not even listening anymore.
Speaker 3:You know they're either they're either thinking to themselves boy dad sounds like a real idiot.
Speaker 2:You don't love me.
Speaker 3:A lot of times, that's what I, or they're scared of me, and that's not my goal, you know as a parent, I don them to be able to be confident, to come to me, and if they're afraid of me, they're not going to come to me, you know. So, uh, I think the quicker I can teach them that the decisions they make have consequences and that they're the ones that are going to have to live with those consequences, then I feel like maybe I'm doing the right thing.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, yeah, and I think one, two, two. One thing as well is that when you slow down and you show them love a lot of I mean not that it recovers everything, but kids are so um forgiving man, they're just yeah, oh, they're resilient, yeah they're resilient, they're forgiving yep because I, you know, I sometimes have same thing. I have those moments where I mean they just do frustrating things, you know, and it don't get their way. Talk, talk back, disrespect. Those are the things that I just you know.
Speaker 3:I tend to, and you have a tougher job than I do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got girls.
Speaker 3:yeah, you have girls, so you're teaching them how they should expect other men to talk to them Exactly, you know.
Speaker 2:I don't know man. They're both very important, Having the man's role on his son's, man's role on his daughter's, and even vice versa. I sons man's role in his daughters and even vice versa I mean the the female role on both.
Speaker 3:They just each have their own little intricacies that are cool to look at, but yeah, they do, they do it's uh, yeah, with my girls it's just, it's the same thing.
Speaker 2:But but what I notice is that when I just pour into them, when I am present, when we're just in moments of connection and I can really give them my attention, that's some of the biggest thing that fills their cup and that's what I think allows them to get through stuff. I mean, yeah, they're, they're going to remember some of the, the way you negatively made them feel. But if you really are present with them and and I'll say so I was going to say earlier is that, you know, just the the time we were over at a friend's house and seeing your boys like they're being boys, you know, able to be free and play, but you also, they were still like a a level of respect or they looked up to you, they were able to communicate with people, and so from what I saw just in my short time, it was, I think it was pretty cool.
Speaker 2:So yeah, Doing good man Keep getting better, that's all.
Speaker 3:That's it. And, and you know I definitely agree with sure, they remember the times where you lay into them, that resonates, but they also remember the time, like you said, you pour into them. I already said my father growing up. He was a police officer. He worked all different shifts but again, just like that, walking through the window story you'll never not tell me my father wasn't at every game that I ever played. That's what I remember. But the truth is he wasn't because he was working. You know it was 4 to 12s or midnights and he was home, you know, asleep. It was maybe one or two seasons where he was home enough his shifts aligned the right way that he, you know he was home and he could even coach me one year, right. But the way I remember it, even all these years later, was that dad was always there.
Speaker 2:Because of when he was there, he gave everything. See, that that's really important? Yep, because a little just. You know, I try to not do a ton of comparing, but it does bring a lot of perspective for me too. And that it's not a you know, I didn't always have the people I wanted to support me at my things, but it's not about them being there, because my mom was at every single one right, but she don't, you know, was she necessarily giving me that coaching and stuff? Not really. Or that built, you know, ability to really understand what was going on. Um, and it's not about the physically showing up, it's about the intent, it's about the connection so I think that was just a really good point to pull out.
Speaker 2:Is that? That's why it's really important that we talk about? I talk about a lot of presence and connection. I mean, again, we're going to have our flaws, but if we can continue to be self-aware, be present and connected, it's super important. College days what? What do you think were your big lessons there, as you were starting to make decisions freely that were impacting your life either positively or negatively? What were your big lessons there?
Speaker 3:Oh man, I just didn't take school serious enough. You know, I went to a lot of different colleges because I just couldn't make my mind up on what I wanted to be when I grew up. You know, growing up as a child, I always wanted to be a cop but, like I said, I just wasn't living that life and so I kept blaming it on the surrounding. You know, I kept blaming it on the school I was at. So I'll try this place, I'll try that place, and I just never got grounded. I felt like I was always living out of the backpack in my car. There was, you know, like it was. Just there was never any grounded feeling. The only thing I cared about was you know where we were going out that night, you know, and that was it. That was my priority. Probably wasn't all that abnormal from other people my age at the time, but they also had the ability to like, turn that off and do what they were supposed to do. And.
Speaker 3:I never did. I never achieved that four year degree. I got a two year degree that probably took me three and a half years to get, and then I've got plenty of credits towards my bachelor's for multiple years after that, but I never actually achieved it. My biggest regret is not taking it seriously and doing what I had to do. But, at the same respect, when it comes to looking back that far back and leading up to about 15 years ago, I don't have any regrets, because every single thing that I did got me to the place where I had to be, where I was finally going to be who I became today.
Speaker 3:I needed to have all of, I was finally going to be who I became today. Yeah, you know, I needed to have all of those trials and tribulations. I needed to have all of those failures. I needed to not be who I was intended to be because I wasn't ready yet. I had to go through all of that stuff and, like we said before, hit rock bottom, which I'm convinced I hit and then growth began, but that wasn't until I was over 30 years old.
Speaker 2:Wow, so real quick. Before we get there, at what point did you become a cop?
Speaker 3:In 2006, I had started to come to realization, to some realizations that you know. There were things that I was doing in my life that were preventing me from becoming the person I was supposed to be. So I had my first experience with sobriety. I actually went to a facility back in 2001. The motivating factor back then was my daughter was born April of 2001. And it was October. She was six months old and her mom at the time we were living together she had called my father and my uncle and asked them to come over and talk to me because I was just out of control. So when you were having, and how old were you at that? I was 22.
Speaker 3:I turned 20 so you had your daughter at 22, I had my daughter at 22, okay yep, so I got on the police department, you know, years later so she, yeah, she was like five or something yeah, my daughter was the motivating factor, but even even still, it took five, took five years just to even achieve entering the police academy and then after that it took another four years before I was finally done, screwing my life up but so it was like.
Speaker 3:Having her was almost like the piece it was that that opened your eyes to take more steps forward yep then you're 27, you get you finally getting into the police force, and then yeah, and you know, for me, a lot of times between that, like 22 and 30, uh, I would take three steps forward and then two steps back. You know, yeah, um, there's a saying in in. You know I'm a member of aa. There's a saying in the program that sometimes the gifts of the program are the same ones that take you out. Um, you, know, I would.
Speaker 3:I I got sober back in october, back in October of 2001. And I stayed that way for two years. Some of the things that I had gotten back at that point was I was employable, I had a great job at an insurance company, I had a car, I had some money in my pocket. So I'd gotten a lot of things back and I was doing a lot of work on myself. But I was convinced that I was young and immature and and I actually called up the guy that was sponsoring me back then, thanked him for everything and said I'm good, I got this. You know, I was just young and stupid and I went out and drank again. Eight months later I was in that same detox. I was two years before that. Wow.
Speaker 3:You know, because it's like the gifts of the program everything that provided me all of a sudden and I took all credit for that, you know it was there was no higher power involved, I wasn't applying the steps, there was no powerlessness or unmanageability. And so in summer of 2004, after I got out of that treatment facility, I was like OK, that's it. Like wow, like that really opened my eyes. That was like an official relapse. Like wow, like that really opened my eyes. That was like an official relapse. Like I was like holy crap, I didn't, I never thought I was going to do that, you know. And I went right back into meetings, got a sponsor again, started working, you know, on myself and that's it, I'm, I'm good, I'm not doing that again.
Speaker 3:And uh, and it was during that stint of of time it was a couple of years that I stayed sober again, a little over two years where I got sworn in as a police officer the New York city police department and um, and it was almost like another subconscious feather in my cap, like look what I did. And I didn't even realize I was doing that. Yet, like they say, the relapse starts way before you pick up a drink. And uh, and I had already started and uh, and then becoming a police officer giving yourself the power.
Speaker 2:power, it was all you, it was all me you know, and I didn't even realize I was doing that that's why in aa, a lot of times they the part of, as far as I understand, a part of the program is they almost want. There's a piece of it that they want you to attach to something greater than yourself.
Speaker 3:Right, absolutely yeah yep, yeah, so you know, the steps are there. I had an old sponsor used to say the the recovery elevator is broken. You must take the steps and they're there for a reason and they're there chronologically for a reason. You've got to admit powerless and unmanageability in step one before you can go any further, and it's the only step you got to do 100% of the time, you know. Then in step two, it just introduces the possibility that there might be something out there great, greater than you. And then, at step three, it's the action step of turning your life and your will over to that, the care of that power greater than yourself.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, you got to where you. You started in police force and you were giving yourself the credit.
Speaker 3:Yep, I took it all back.
Speaker 3:I said look, I know I gave you all the credit to get here. I'm here now I'll take that back. And again, it's it's subconscious. This stuff happens without even realizing it, you know. And you know, one of the common things you'll always hear in meetings is you know, I walked into a local meeting and there was a bunch of people there that I already knew and they said welcome, we were waiting for you. He says, and I never thought they knew that I had a problem. And the fact is, everybody else knows and we're the last ones to find out. The same is true for when I start taking my will back, when I start taking credit, you know, everybody else sees the warning signs. I'm the last one that figures it out. So I'm on the police force now.
Speaker 3:Right, this is July of 06. I got sworn in, so it's probably October, november of 06. We have to do our first double in the academy. We have to do some counterterrorism training. So I was in the academy during a day tour, eight to four and or seven to 330, whatever it was and then from there we were going to be staying in the city. We had to go to a training facility in the Bronx and do a counterterrorism training for four to 12. So the minute we got notified about that, you know, a couple of days notice, everybody in my, in my company, each classroom was known as a company they were like, all right, you know, where are we going after after the four to 12, you know, let they were like all right, where are we going after the 4 to 12? Let's plan where we're going. What bar are we going to? And I had gone to plenty of bars, sober. I love live music, but I was always there with safe people.
Speaker 2:I'd either be there with my son and you were still sober at this point and I was still sober. I got you, I was still sober.
Speaker 3:So I didn't realize that I had taken my will back and I had. Because of the academy and the commuting back and forth, I wasn't able to get to the meetings that I used to go to and I was starting to not stay in touch with the same people in the meetings anymore. And before I knew it it came time for that 4 to 12. We went out to the bar and I had a drink in my hand Just like that. You know, I was like I looked around, like how the hell did that happen.
Speaker 3:And that night we got into a bar fight, like that night. And here we are, rookies in the academy I might even need to edit that out, I don't even know if there's a statute of limitations but we got into a bar fight and I'm like holy crap, I was terrified that I was going to lose everything I really was. And I went right to lose everything you know I really was and and uh, I went right to a meeting. I went right to a meeting the next day. I told him myself and I just tried to put the pieces back together. You know, um, and I graduated the Academy in in uh, january of 07 and went to, uh went to a place in Brooklyn that I you've only been there if you've driven a hundred miles an hour through it. It through Brownsville, brooklyn, a little mile and a quarter of the deadliest concrete in New. York.
Speaker 3:City, had a great time working there, though Absolutely loved it, was there for seven and a half years and then we got into the time where I met a girl. I had a great relationship. I stopped going to the meetings again. My hours at work changed. My priorities shifted to the girlfriend and before I knew it I was out with the guys at a Mets game standing at the back of the beer line. A beer got passed to me and I drank it.
Speaker 3:I was sober for a couple of years again, and that was when I looked around and I was like I don't know what I'm doing. You know, I don't know. They don't know that I have a problem with alcohol. You know that was part of the reason why I drank the beer. Nobody knew that I was an alcoholic. Nobody knew that I was sober. I was so afraid to get on the job. At the police department there's questions and psychosocials. The way that I answered everything was not to allude to the fact that maybe I had a problem with alcohol. So I felt like I was living a totally double life.
Speaker 2:Which is crazy too. I felt like I was living a totally double life, you know, which is crazy too. And we stop cause I've stopped drinking just on my own before, for no specific reason. But it's what like? If you're not drinking, everybody thinks there's something wrong with you, cause I mean a lot of times, either cause you're pregnant, cause you've you've had issues with alcohol and you don't you need to not drink, or some people just decide not to. But it's crazy on our culture. I'd love to see a day where someone can just decide not to drink and that doesn't have to be a big deal, you know.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, I think AA recovery in general is more widely known today than it was 20 years ago. We hear about celebrities that are how many years sober and you know we hear more about it. It comes up in sitcoms more. I think there's a whole sitcom where it's a mom and a daughter and the mom is sober and AA and some of the sitcom is filmed in meetings. So it's more mainstream. You know, it really is.
Speaker 3:For me, I felt like I had to live a double life because I had the stigma in my head. You know I really now living as a sober person for the last 15 years and being open about it, I have. I don't think I've ever come across anybody that has negatively judged me, at least to my face, because I'm sober. You know I've never had, I've never not gotten a job because I'm sober. I've never not had a good time at a family gathering or, you know, meeting people for the first time, whatever the case may be. Whenever I have to tell somebody for the first time that I don't drink, it's not, it's not been met with negativity. So that was really all in my head, you know.
Speaker 2:So yeah, sorry to get you off track there. So, do you? Yeah, so you were you at the back of the line at a Mets game. A beer was passed back to you. You started back again. I started back again.
Speaker 3:I started back again and I had at this point now my girlfriend and I are living together and I had had a couple of beers at the Mets game, so I couldn't come home Like I didn't want her to know that I was drinking.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I was a big I am still a big golfer and I lived right around the block from Bethpage Golf Course, which is very famous now since the US Open has been there a couple of times, but it's known for the black horse. You get to, uh, park ina parking spot outside the clubhouse overnight and and sleep in your car to reserve a tea time for the next morning. Oh, my goodness, so it was genius for me. I'm like you know what. I just called kelly on the way home and I said, hey, I'm, I'm gonna play. I got an invite to go play beth page tomorrow morning, but you know, I was the one nominated to go sleep in the parking lot and I had done this plenty of times in the past, so it was nothing new. And uh, and so I I quote, unquote kind of got away with it that night, but that was the, that was the length I had to go to and the next.
Speaker 3:So, like I said, the next day I went back to a meeting and and, uh, you know I just it scared the crap out of me. You know, I really did. I was like I don't want to do this anymore. You know, my daughter, it scared the crap out of me. You know it really did. I was like I don't want to do this anymore. You know my daughter was now living with us. You know I had custody of my daughter. She was, you know, at this point she's probably eight years old, so she's living with us in the apartment and I just didn't want anybody to know. I didn't want to lose custody.
Speaker 3:I didn't want to lose Kelly. So I just went right back to meetings and um, but I don't know what it was, I kept drinking, kept like I would go for a week and then I would. You know, there was a lot of stuff going on at work. There was, you know, like I said, I worked in a rough neighborhood and there was some incidents that happened, and it just everything that I was dealing with felt like another, another obstacle I couldn't get over, you know, and it just kept weighing down on me and I just kept weighing down on me and I just kept feeling heavier, and heavier, and heavier, and so I drank a few more times and, uh, and it finally led to a pretty bad argument between Kelly and myself, probably that, like September of 09 and or October of 09, and we broke up. She left and um went back and lived with her mom and for the next month, man, I was a wreck. I was an absolute wreck.
Speaker 3:I'd call her, I would text her, beg her, and one night we were texting back and forth and I must have fallen asleep. And I woke up the next morning about 5 o'clock. The phone was still in my hand and the texting between Kelly and I the night before was positive. It was moving in a pretty good direction. And between Kelly and I the night before was positive, it was moving in a pretty good direction. And I woke up five o'clock in the morning and the phone was still in my hand. I looked at the phone and she had sent me a text message a few hours earlier and a few hours after our conversation had ended. So she was obviously up thinking about this and she had said something to the effect of you're unfixable and I can't do this anymore. And it clicked Like I read that text message and I read the words you're unfixable and I agreed.
Speaker 3:I said you're right. That was the word I've been searching for for so long. I couldn't understand why so much negativity was happening. No matter what I did, no matter how hard I tried, I never. I felt like I wasn't succeeding in anything and things just kept getting harder and harder. And I read that word and I completely identified with it. And that was November 23rd today, 15 years ago. And I made a plan right then and there I was done. I was done, trying, Spent the next couple hours getting my daughter's lunch ready for school. That day. It was done, trying. I spent the next couple of hours, you know, getting my daughter's lunch ready for school that day it was a Tuesday morning Woke her up for school and you know, got her dressed and, just you know, spent some time like pouring into her a little bit that morning and I put her in the car and I drove her up to school and you know you guys are familiar with the car lines down here.
Speaker 3:Not so different up in the Bethpage School District of New York, you know there down here, not so different. Up in the Bethpage School District of New York there's no stopping, there's no getting out of the car. Your kid gets out and you just keep it moving. Right, I got out of the car.
Speaker 3:I walked around the front and I got down on one knee and I gave my daughter a big hug and I said I love you and I said have a good day. And I didn't say goodbye. But I said I love you and have a good day and I didn't say I'll see you later. And she had no idea what I was doing. She was embarrassed Dad, get out of here, they're honking. I just had to do what I had to do and I got back in my car and tears going down my face, I had my off-duty nine millimeter already in my pocket and I went up to a local 7-Eleven and picked up a 12 pack of Bud Light and I didn't even drive back to my apartment, which was I passed my apartment on the way.
Speaker 3:I don't really remember other than the fact I didn't want, I didn't want anybody to find me in my place like that, like you know what if a family member, you know something like that. So I went to a parking lot up the road at a local park and and I tried to drink the courage to squeeze the trigger, and it was about eight o'clock in the morning, you know, and there I was buying the beer at 7-Eleven driving up to the park, and it was about 45 minutes. I was done with that 12-pack and I did not have any more courage at that point. I wasn't even drunk, I just couldn't.
Speaker 3:I couldn't believe what I was about to do and I went back to 7-Eleven, bought another 12-pack and this 7-Eleven was right outside of a very busy Long Island Railroad train station hub and so, because of the time of the morning, there's still plenty of people commuting into Manhattan for work. And I'll remember it must have been a delay on the train because there was the same guy standing on the platform right by the parking lot of 7-Eleven and he looked back at me and there I was in my pajama pants. He looked back, he's like you're back for more, and I just hung my head and I got back in my car and I left and I went back to the park and I started getting fuzzy. I don't remember a whole lot of that day because I did wind up drinking myself into a blackout and the rest of the day is it did happen this way. This is not like you know.
Speaker 1:I remember it this way like my father coming through the window.
Speaker 3:You know it, remember it this way, like my father coming through the window. You know it did happen this way. It's been corroborated by other people. I came to later that morning standing outside of Kelly's car in the parking lot of the hospital where she used to work, and I didn't know what I was doing there. I was just in a park in Bethpage and Kelly worked in a hospital in Manhasset, so the distance between those two places is about 30 or 40 minutes depending upon traffic, and so I don't remember getting from one place to another.
Speaker 3:But there I was. I was standing next to her black Toyota Echo and I looked around. I'm like I got to get out of here, I can't be here, and I just left. But what I was doing there was I was leaving two suicide notes on the windshield. One of them I wrote on the back of a picture of Taylor and the other I just wrote on like a piece of notepad. And I got back in my car and I left. The next thing I remember that day I was walking out of a bodega which is like a 24-7 deli you know just in case nobody knows what that is in the Bronx, which is a considerable distance from where I just was on Long Island.
Speaker 3:And I was a.
Speaker 3:Met fan. I wasn't familiar with the Bronx, I didn't work in the Bronx, I don't even know what the hell I was doing there, but I walked out of there and I remember because I was holding two tall boys and I was getting back in the car. The next thing I remember was a couple hours later. I was arguing with somebody that was behind the counter of a gas station and what we were arguing about was that I didn't believe that they didn't have any alcohol there. And he looked at me. He says he says you're in a dry state. I state what state am I in? I had no idea where I was. I was in delaware. Um, I have no idea other than god had a plan why I didn't crash, why I didn't kill somebody.
Speaker 2:He got from the Bronx to Delaware.
Speaker 3:Yep, you know, god absolutely had a plan. When I realized where I was, it thoroughly freaked me out and I got back in the car and I remember, vaguely remember, like looking at my phone and being like. Who the hell?
Speaker 3:are these people Like ridiculous numbers of messages? And it was later in the day, it was well into the afternoon at this point, almost the evening, and I just got spooked. I didn't know what the hell was going on. I just kept driving, because now I was too afraid to do anything else, and I looked down at my passenger seat. At one point I was reaching for a pack of cigarettes and I saw my gun on the passenger seat and in my head I felt like I was back in that park in Bethpage and it was like I just made the connection. I was supposed to kill myself today and I kind of I guess I don't know if I slipped back into the blackout. I mean, obviously I didn't just sober up after an argument with a guy. I've been drinking all day at this point. So the next kind of thing that I remember you know, I never, I never reached out for help. I was still intent on not coming back.
Speaker 3:My phone rang and I remember seeing the 646 area code. Now, back then you know, being a Long Island guy 646, being a New York City police officer. That meant the New York City Police Department was calling me. That was, you know somebody in you know one police plaza or you know somebody was calling me. I picked up the phone and on the other end of the phone was this guy that introduced himself. As he said, his words to me were Keith. I said yeah, he said my name is Lieutenant Jack Cambria. I'm from the hostage negotiation team of the New York City Police Department. I'd like to talk to you. I heard hostage negotiation team, the New York City Police Department, and I immediately looked around my car thinking did I have somebody in my car? You know, did I kill somebody? Did? I do something.
Speaker 3:All over my front floorboard was just nothing but bottles and cans. I got back on the because I took the phone away from my ear at that point. I got back on the phone with him and I said I don't know what I did. And he started talking to me and it was. I was still pretty fuzzy and he started asking me where I was going and I didn't know. I said I don't really know where I am right now and I pulled off. I was on a major highway, I knew that much.
Speaker 3:I saw an exit coming up and I pulled off the road and I was on like a like a service road or somewhat parallel to the big highway I just came on, came off of and I was still talking to Jack and he was talking to me and he was telling me that he had somebody there with him that had gone through something similar with me, that I had gone through, and he wanted to talk to me and he started asking me about Taylor and started asking me about some of the troubles that I was having at work. And all of a sudden I heard this noise and I saw, saw these lights and I wasn't sure if they were, like you know, police lights or something. And I looked and there was a Maryland State Police helicopter over the highway. I'd just come off and he had a searchlight on and he was looking in the highway and I said I said, lieutenant, there's a, there's a helicopter not too far away from you right now. Are they looking for me? And he said he says well, keith, we're all looking for you. You know, we want to make sure that we bring you home and we want to make sure that you don't make a permanent decision to a temporary problem.
Speaker 3:And hearing him say that, that was when I realized I can get through this, I don't have to die, I don't want to die. You know, there was probably a very big part of me all day that didn't want to die, or else I would have blew my head off hours before. I was terrified of what it was going to take to get better. I was terrified of what it was going to take to get through what I was going through. And I was just. I was just afraid of the work. You know, I was afraid of the work and was the work going to be the give me the result that that I wanted?
Speaker 2:Because you convinced yourself you were unfixable.
Speaker 3:I was. Yeah, you know I was, I was unfixable.
Speaker 2:That's. That's when I feel like a man gets to that point, when it's like when we, when we don't, when we feel like there's no solution, there's nothing to nothing for us to do, work on, there's not one thing that we can do to make the situation better. There's we we can do to make the situation better. We don't have a purpose anymore, and when we don't have a purpose, it's the worst thing for a man to be in that spot and when Jack said those words, I don't want you to make a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Speaker 3:I thought to myself, I don't want to die. I can get through this and memories of all the times that I'd come back to a meeting and said I'm just back or I just got out of rehab and then look forward to all the progress that was made. And this was just another one of those times that I was going to be okay and I pulled over and I said, jack, I'm going to come back, I'm turning around and I'm going to come back and whatever I have to do, I'm going to do. He put this guy on the phone, matt Hickey. He was a detective out of Queens that went through a very similar thing that I went through with. You know I was in child custody court at this point with my daughter. You know like he had gone through a couple of lawsuits when he was on the job. You know some people that he had arrested, filed lawsuit. You know all stuff I was going through. And so Matt and I talked for about 45 minutes.
Speaker 3:I turned the car around, I came back down, came back up, I was on Highway 95. I was on I-95. And I jumped back on 95, going northbound. And Jack gets back on the phone. He says listen, I just want to let you know. You know there was a 1013 that went out. 1013 is officer in distress. It was one of our radio codes, it, that went out earlier today when we found the suicide notes. So a description of your car and your license plate was given out on that 10-13. And you know that's why the helicopter was there not too long ago.
Speaker 3:Just want to let you know. You know like there are cops out on 95 that you know if they see your car they're going to pull you over. And he says, keith, they're afraid that you're going to try to commit suicide by cop. So I need you to do something for me that I can convey to them. That's not something they have to worry about. I said what can I do? He said I need you. He says do you have your firearm with you? I said yes, jack, I do, it's right here in the passenger seat. He said I need you to open the trunk, pull over, open the trunk and I need you to put that gun in your trunk and then get back in the driver's seat. And I said, okay, yeah, I can do that. So I pulled over on high on i-95 northbound, in the shoulder, right, if you've ever driven on 95 you know yeah you know cars and and trucks, tons of cars coming through only two lanes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you know I pulled over to the shoulder. You know I got off pretty, I got over pretty far. You know a couple of wheels on the grass and I popped the trunk.
Speaker 3:I was driving a little, uh, silver hyundai elantra at the time and I walked to the back of the car, I took the gun apart, I took the top slide off the magazine out, took the one in the chamber out and and I put the gun in a couple of different spots in my trunk, my golf bag, and as I close the trunk I'm walking back up to the driver's seat. You know those rumble strips, those rumble strips on the side of the road? Yeah, I start hearing that bearing down on me and I look up and it's an 18-wheel truck about 100 yards away from me.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, and it's on the rumble strips and I'm like I almost laughed. I'm like, after everything, this is how I'm going to die. Wow, so close to me that I was standing next to my car that the wind as he drove by me it like rolled me up my car and my front door was open just a little bit and like that little crevice in my front door caught me and I slammed the door wide open. I almost ripped the door right off the car, like that's how hard.
Speaker 3:I got thrown into that and Jack is still on the phone. I had left it on the console and I get back in in the car like MF-ing, like I'm a bitch, I couldn't believe it. He's like what's the matter? What's the matter?
Speaker 3:He thought I was, you know, he thought I'd done something or whatever, and I started laughing on the phone with him. I said, Jack, this is how I'm going to die. And I told him the story and I don't know how he took that. Like you know, I can only imagine being in his position, like hearing I sound like a madman, oh, but, but that's, that was part of the night, you know.
Speaker 3:And then I got back in the car and I headed home and one of the things that Jack had told me was you know, he's going to meet. He wanted me to call him because I told him I was going to turn my phone off because they had they had pinged my phone. I had an iPhone.
Speaker 3:That's how they knew the helicopter was pretty close to me and I didn't want to be brought home by a cop. You know I wanted to drive home and I was going to head I was going to face this head on. So I told him I was turning my phone off and nobody was going to track me and I was going to meet him.
Speaker 3:He said I don't want you to do, I'm hanging up, and I hung up the phone and, uh, and I drove back. It was a few hours, you know, going from the Maryland area back up to New York you didn't pass any cops or anything so. Multiple times during the drive home I had seen silver cars pulled off to the side of the road and I realized, you know, I just drove right by him. They thought they were pulling me over, but there was somebody else wow I mean again.
Speaker 3:God, that's crazy you know like it was. I took my easy pass out and I put it in the foil pouch and put it in the in the glove box, paid cash. You know, at every toll booth that I came back through, like you know, I just didn't, I didn't want to do it any other way. You know I was terrified to be in the back of a police car, you know. So I got to a diner, I got to the Queens border, I turned my phone on. There were, I think, 30 text messages, well over 20 voicemails, and I just I just dialed Jack's number and I said all right, jack, I'm back. Where do you want me to go? He gave me an address, I put it on the GPS and I went.
Speaker 3:It was some diner in Queens. So I pull into the parking lot and I had never met Jack before. But there was my PBA delegate or union delegate from my precinct was there. He was standing next to a shorter, older gentleman who I assumed was Jack, and then there were two other guys there and I got out of the car and the first thing Jack did was he gave me a hug and there was like a tear running down his face and I was a mess and he gave me a hug and he says so right now, I got to frisk you.
Speaker 3:I said go ahead I said the gun's in my trunk, and he frisked me. He said they didn't want me to come out here and meet you, you know, without knowing that you didn't have a weapon, you know he was I. Just then I noticed like under his suit jacket he was wearing a bulletproof vest and I thought to myself, like man, what have I caused today? And he said, all right, come on, let's go inside and get a cup of coffee and let's talk about what we're going to do. So I went inside and one of the other guys that was out there, you, and they all just talked about how thankful they were that I came back and that I was going to give this an opportunity, and that was that we spent a couple hours there and they took me back to my precinct in Brooklyn and they babysat me for the rest of the night.
Speaker 3:They wanted to take me to a place in Queens like a neutral place, I guess, where they didn't think I would know anybody, and I just said I'm like nope. I said you know, 7-3 is my home and I got to face them eventually. So you know this is the same people that I was terrified to tell them for years that I had a problem with alcohol. But yeah, I'm going to go back and whoever's there is there. And I got an incredible reception from my commanding officer when I walked in and he just wrapped me up in this big bear hug and lieutenant that I worked for. I started to learn a little bit more about what happened that day. My sister's listed as my next of kin so they had to bring her in to this command post at my precinct because I guess at one point they had thought that they had found my car and.
Speaker 3:I wasn't in it. So they weren't sure if they were going to have to make some kind of an identification or whatever. You know there was. Just there was a lot of people involved. You know, there was a lot of people involved. And the next morning after all of that, I was brought to the department psych to have an evaluation and take the next step.
Speaker 3:I sat down at her desk in her office and she says to me she says well, you know, tell me, how long have you had a drinking problem? And I looked at her dead in the eye and I said I don't have a drinking problem. Because again the fear kicked in. You know, like everything, she asked me that question and the only thing I could think about was I'm gonna lose my job. I'm gonna lose my job, so I'm gonna lose custody. I'm not gonna be able to afford my rent. Like just all of a sudden and I lied and she was pissed if she was a she probably would have flipped the desk on me she threw me out of her office. She says go to meal. That was, you know, go to lunch. Get the hell out of my office, come back in an hour.
Speaker 3:And I walked out of her office. I was shaking my head. I put my hand on my brow and I called up my buddy, Craig, who was also a sober cop, and I said Greg, what the hell did I just do? Like everything I just went through last night. Everybody knows why did I lie? And he said because you're an alcoholic, turn around, go back, tell her the truth. And so I turned around and I walked back in her office and she was still pissed off. She's like I told you to. I said I'm an alcoholic. I don't know how to be truthful, I don't know how to do this, but I need help. And she immediately was disarmed. She was shocked and I sat down at her desk and we spent a little over an hour probably talking and I told her everything. You know I was like listen, I'm terrified that this information. You know, just three years ago I got sworn in based upon information I gave you in a pre-hire. You know psychosocial. And here I am telling you it was all a lie. You know like I've had a problem with alcohol for years, I'm so afraid that I'm going to lose everything.
Speaker 3:And again, god had a plan, sent me to the counseling unit in downtown Brooklyn where they set me up with a 28-day treatment facility that was in Pennsylvania, in Bucks County, called Miramont.
Speaker 3:They had a specialized program for law enforcement called Viper and it was run by a former captain of the Philadelphia Police Department, this guy, larry Norton.
Speaker 3:And it was great I was within everybody else that was going to that treatment facility I mean heroin addicts, crack addicts, alcoholics but every day, a few hours a day, those of us who were there from our departments were brought together in a small group and started working on sobriety as members of the law enforcement community and I think that was really instrumental in showing me that I wasn't the only one you know.
Speaker 3:And then I got out of that facility, I went back home and I didn't lose my job. I lost my gun and shield. I was on a modified assignment and I was mandated to go to the counseling unit on a weekly outpatient treatment schedule and it was with other NYPD cops and I started to realize, all right, I'm not just not the only cop ever, but I'm not the only one here in the department. And I did that for about nine months and one day in I guess it was September I got the notification that I was getting my gun and shield back and I was going back to work. Wow, it was an amazing feeling, you know, and I didn't take credit for it.
Speaker 3:The first thing I did was I called Jack. I called Lieutenant Jack Cambria and I broke down to him and I told him. I said you are an absolute angel sent from God and you saved my life. And I'm going back to work and I want to thank you because it's because of you. I made it a point, from that point on, not to take credit for anything, and that's a huge, you know, very humble person Didn't want to take credit for anything. Put it back on me and I just said well then, all the credits to God.
Speaker 3:And then, a couple months later, I had the fortune to work the Thanksgiving Day Parade and it was the first time I'd ever worked this detail before, and I'm watching Santa Claus come down on the float and the first person I could think about was Jack Cambria. I'm like Jack. I'm sitting here. I got tears in my eyes. I can't believe I'm here. I cannot believe how grateful I am and, again, this is all thanks to you. Thank you so much. It was a year ago. What year was that? That was now 2010.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:So it was a year after, you know, because I was calling him saying you know, last Thanksgiving I was in the treatment facility, you know, and now here I am standing at the Thanksgiving Day Parade, you know, with tears in my eyes of just complete joy and gratitude. Kelly and I are back together. At that point, you know, we repaired our relationship and I told him about that too. I said, you know, I'm fortunate enough that my relationship has been rebuilt with Kelly and you know, things are going really well. You know, and I really appreciate it, I was going to meetings all the time and it became an annual thing. You know, every anniversary I would call Jack, and then November of 2013, I called him up and sent him a picture of our newborn son, carter, and I told him I said you know, not only did you save my life, but you brought life into the world.
Speaker 3:And again you know he's so humble. You know didn't want to take credit for any of it, but uh, you know it's been. I've done that every year since you know we had we had carter in 2013, then we had sean in march of 2015. So when he was born, I sent jack an email with the picture of the family of four you know the family of five, because my daughter was in the picture as well and then, november of 2016, I sent in the picture of all of us together and again it was kind of aligned with another anniversary.
Speaker 3:You know, this time you know, now seven years down the road and I said I said this is all because of you, it was all because of God and all because of you. You know, there's so many different times during that day that you read headlines about the horrible car accident because of what somebody drank and drove or whatever. I said. And yet here I am, seven years later, there's three new lives in this world because God had a plan, and that was 15 years ago today.
Speaker 2:Awesome man. Well, let's take a deep breath real quick. That was definitely. I know it's heavy for you, but I'm very grateful to be sitting here with you and you sharing this story. You and I know each other just a little bit as well, but I'm very grateful to be sitting here with you and you sharing this story. You and I know each other just a little bit as well, but I'm somebody that is vulnerable myself, but I also just am grateful to be around other people, and especially other men, because it's close to my heart that can somehow have the courage which, like you've been saying, I think it is to be able to get to a point where you don't give two shits. This is my story.
Speaker 2:When I first met you, too, I felt that there's like this authenticity meter that we have, where it's like oh, this, you can tell if somebody's sitting in their shit, or you can tell somebody is trying to work through it, right and uh, but just want to slow down, allow you to take a deep breath and really just show you gratitude for for being here.
Speaker 2:I mean, it was was like I'm in a movie listening to your story and I really appreciate you sharing it. I appreciate you putting it out here into the world, because I think I said this before we started. But our podcast, you know, we're just two everyday people, me and my wife trying to get better, trying to learn from others, trying to put things out there that may reach one person, it might reach multiple. We don't have like this. We're trying to get to Joe Rogan style podcast. You know what I mean. If that's the plan that God has, then I'm all for it. But it's to me, it's about putting good energy out there. And, yeah, hearing a story like yours just now, man, it's heart-wrenching, heartwarming. I had a ton of empathy and, man, I'm just so glad you're here, brother and uh thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's amazing to be here yeah, and and tons of lessons in there. Obviously, some, some tough things and there's, you know, we all know some. Every single day somebody's going through either suicide being completed or they're dealing with thinking about it.
Speaker 3:There's a there's actually a statistic in the law enforcement community that every 55 hours another cop takes their own life.
Speaker 3:I mentioned before, I'm president of an organization down here that our sister chapter up in North Carolina. Um, they got involved in something called the uh survived the 55, which is a law enforcement suicide awareness hike that they do on the beach in Topsail Island. They they hike 55 miles on a weekend, usually during that 9-11 timeframe in September, and it's really just to kind of bring awareness to the epidemic in the law enforcement community and I've been a part of that for the last four years with those guys.
Speaker 3:And it's amazing. We've got these little business cards that have kind of you know, the idea of why we're out there. And you know it's not, it's not a money grab. You know we're just literally out there carrying the colors and, you know, wearing the survive, the 55 shirts and just kind of spreading the message and you know we'll come across.
Speaker 3:It's after Labor Day, so the beaches aren't jam packed, but there's still quite a number of people out there, quite a number of people out there, and every year I've done this, I've had dozens and dozens of conversations with people that you know tears in their eyes, you know having just gone through this, or you know having had a family member or loved one you know make that decision.
Speaker 3:And they were, they were, you know, a cop or first responder, you know so it's. There's so many of us out there and I don't I just single out from my profession because I know suicide effects transcends across all lines but to keep it in such a remote, tight-knit brotherhood and to still know that so many people are hurting there, and one of the biggest things, I've been so open with my story. I've gone on CBS and told my story. Like I've been so open with my story. I've gone on CBS and told my story. One of the biggest reasons is because there's such a stigma attached to the recovery aspect, or the addiction aspect, that you know you keep it to yourself. I'm a perfect example that the stigma lived in my head and I couldn't tell anybody. And one person hears this and it helps. That's what this is all about. I'm just trying to smash that stigma and just let everybody know like that permanent solution to a temporary problem does not have to be one that you make today.
Speaker 3:There is a there is life and there is possibility.
Speaker 2:And there's, there's so many factors that go. You know it's like that, that God factor, that rock, but I mean cause. At the end of the day you can have everybody telling you hey, man, like you need to get your shit together and until you hit a point where it decides to click in your head it's never going to happen and unfortunately it's that rock bottom point for a lot of people. But hopefully from this people can can pull and understand there was a lot of, there's a lot of puzzle pieces to that. There's others that love you that you don't even know. Are there pieces to that? There's others that love you that you don't even know. Are there People that you know, every single person that I don't know that is thinking about this or is to a point where they feel like they have no purpose, that their life is not worth it. There's so many examples. You can listen to this story. You can listen to millions out there. There's so much out there where you can see that there's a way for you to find purpose, because at the time that you're in that deep spot, your brain is wired in a way to pretty much secure your thoughts. Yeah, because that's all you're focused on. You're hyper-focused. When we're hyper-focused on something, our heart rate gets up. We don't make good decisions, but they're temporary and if you can just make it one more minute, one more hour, then you can allow yourself to come out.
Speaker 2:I think is the beautiful thing from your story, because it's just, it does break my heart and that vulnerability piece that we talk about is really important. I can't say I've been in the same spot, but I've been at points where, man, I was okay in a small moment if my car just ran into a tree. You know, it's just, it is what it is. It's something that I think, just speaking from a man's perspective, most of us can relate to in one way or another. And also, I'm pretty much convinced every man at least has a vice. Everyone's got. If it's alcohol, if it's even workaholic type stuff, if it's pornography, whatever other vices you can think of drugs everyone's got a vice. They got that one thing that could be their weakness. That really just is what they go to, to hide from or to to get away from whatever it is. That just feels unbearable. And I think when you can't, when you don't have a higher power, it is hard to to do it alone.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's impossible. Yeah, stuff alone, man. Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't imagine going through recovery, going through sobriety alone. And even in this last 15 years there's been plenty of times where work or lifestyle, you know, relocating from New York down to here, afraid of me for meetings for a little while, and I could see a turn and a change in my life for the negative when I start taking that control and that will back. Sometimes I give it back over to God and it's too late to save one part of my life, but I don't lose everything. I'm a lot more cognizant of the necessity of having a presence of God in my life every day, because he's a part of it, whether I acknowledge Him or not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome man. So 15 years sober, when's the date?
Speaker 3:So the actual sober date would be tomorrow, because obviously 15 years ago today I was still pretty banged up. Gotcha yeah my sober date is 15 years tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Awesome man. Well, we celebrate you in that and I'm sure, the reminder of that every year. It's not the easiest thing, but I'm sure everyone that's got you in your life. Like you said, there's life that's been able to be created. You've got your sons who, like I said, are just awesome little boys that are growing into men and you have these experiences that you can, now that you've learned from, to be able to help them get to a point when they become a man, because it's important.
Speaker 2:We need fathers teaching sons to deal with these things and how to deal with these things that just sometimes come with being a man, you know, and I think it's super important. So, love your brother. Thanks for sharing that. I really can't share enough and put it out there that just glad you're here and just glad you're able to come to terms with things and be able to be self-aware and start living your life and give yourself grace, give it to God, and there's probably still seasons of things to where it's like you might backtrack, but keep going, keep going strong, and we're definitely celebrating and rooting for you.
Speaker 3:I appreciate that and you know I appreciate platforms like this and people like yourself who just prove that that stigma does live within the mind. It's not the reality. There's plenty of people out there that support and root for and want the best for all of us. You and Chelsea are definitely that proof. So I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 2:Thanks, brother. Yeah, and it's weird man. It's like once you go through these strong life lessons whatever it is for each person that's kind of where I got when I was 30. And I kind of went through my I forget what Chelsea calls it, but it's just like your deep point where you get past all these things and you become closer to your higher self. But it's just like you reach this level of authenticity and I think part of that's a vulnerability, like when I see someone that has a healthy vulnerability meter and they can be a real person, you can have more than surface level conversations with.
Speaker 2:First time I met you I could feel that and I just think it's really cool and it's freeing. Like who you are today is probably so much more freeing because you're not trying to hide, like you said, that once you lie to yourself so much, you don't follow through any of your commitments to yourself. Once you do that so much and you get past that, it's almost like you do it out of fear of going back. You don't ever want to go back to that. So I'm just going to be super honest. Hey, you get what you get Unapologetic. I think it's an important place to be. Yeah, I agree with that a hundred percent. Awesome, brother. Well, so just to to kind of lean towards a close a little bit, where you're at today, what are, what are some of your goals, what are some of the things that you're you're focused on now and just reaching your highest self, trying to to be the best person for yourself, be the best person for your, your family.
Speaker 3:So I've actually gotten pretty involved with making it a point to go to church every Sunday. I've been doing that for a little over a year at this point.
Speaker 2:Where do you guys go?
Speaker 3:So we're kind of split between Carolina Forest Community Church.
Speaker 2:Okay, I heard good things about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, great place, excellent message and the pastors that are there. But our kids play Little League League baseball there as well, so there's a good sports ministry and it's just a really good place. But we were also my wife was brought up Catholic. I was brought up.
Speaker 3:Catholic as well, but my wife went through Catholic school and she has a lot more ties to that traditional Catholic ministry. So we've actually gone to St Michael's a couple of times and that's a great church. It really is a good message. I've enjoyed going to both. That's kind of what we do. We kind of go to both. I've been involved in a Bible study with those.
Speaker 3:Actually, one of the guys in my smoking shields came up to me one night and started talking about it and I noticed this is when I was first going back to church a lot, and he invited me to this Bible study. I was like wow, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 3:I've never, really I've never read the Bible, like I've never got into it, and that's been eye-opening, you know it's been really. I think that's been very integral in just adding to that higher power of God relationship. You know. You know, praying in the morning, praying at night, you know that action and reflection every day, you know that's, that's kind of what I've become as more routine now and then, from there it was, it was health. You know, the last last few months I've lost 40 pounds. I've gotten a little more active.
Speaker 3:Thank you. So you know, and I've got more to lose and and and I can you know. So you know it's been, it's been good. You know I think accountability you know living up to my own expectations and you know just being accountable to God, and all that as well is really changing, even 15 years later. You know it's the constant and evolving process of becoming one's better self, like even in AA. You go through the 12 steps. There's no diploma, Like you know. Once you're done with 12, you go back to one, like just keep doing it. What do you do after you celebrate 15 years sober, go to a meeting the next day, like it is what it is. So it's just evolving to become one's better self and what I can do on a daily basis to get there.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, would you say.
Speaker 3:you're honoring your commitments pretty strongly at this point in time to yourself I am yeah, I definitely am. You know it's spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection. I don't want to beat myself up when I don't do things, but you know it is a conscious thought. You know, in that reflection stage of the day I don't need to take control of that. You know, let's just go back to what works.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that's awesome. Well, definitely. And I think, like once you, you kind of overcome certain things, there's so many different things we can try to improve in our lives. But physically, like you said, as you're probably seeing, as the weight's coming off, your mental is also becoming even stronger. Like you had said before, alcoholism starts before you grab the drink.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the relapse starts way before you pick up the drink. And what?
Speaker 2:I hear now is that you, in a positive way, are trying to get ahead of that in your decision-making with your kids and your decision-making with your health. And again, you've got to give yourself grace. It's not going to all of a sudden be you, snap your fingers and all of a sudden you're this perfect man just all this stuff?
Speaker 3:No, it doesn't work that way. Nothing in life works that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm a real estate agent. We that's in our industry. That's what we talk about all the time. Like you see these hgtv shows where it's. Oh yeah, you know they go in they see three houses and then all of a sudden, presto, you know, that's I know right, that's not the way it works. You know what I mean. Um, yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:I was gonna ask you or kind of get to that too. So, yeah, you're a real estate agent here in Myrtle Beach right now. You're with the brokerage Living South Living South right Living South. And there's like 10,000 real estate agents from Myrtle Beach. Right, there's a lot of us.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So what have you we're the best. Yeah, absolutely man.
Speaker 2:And you've been seeing a lot of your stuff and just Chelsea sold me a lot and you know, she's involved with, with real estate people, a little bit with what she does with social media, yep, but how's it been going? You feel what's been your. You feel like you're getting, you're growing in the real estate industry pretty good, or how long you've been doing it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely so I started. I got hurt in the police department back in 2015, so I had to retire early because of that uh injury, um, but three boys.
Speaker 3:I wasn't going to sit on my butt and just not work, so I got my real estate license back in 16. I sold houses in New York before relocating here and then just continued it, you know, full-time agent ever since relocating here in 2018. I recently started a real estate team another retired New York City officer and a brand new agent, which is awesome to see her growth just in the last couple of weeks, a couple of months, and so it's exciting, you know, kind of being the one with a little bit more experience, the one that's done, maybe a little bit more social media promotion, like we just got done filming a little Instagram post, you know, to kind of introduce ourselves a little bit. So it's exciting. There's so much about real estate that I love it's not just the closing table, it really isn't.
Speaker 2:Yeah right.
Speaker 3:There's so much that just keeps you moving every day.
Speaker 2:How much would you say impact, like relationship building and authenticity, how important do you feel like those things are, you know, in becoming a real estate agent and really make or break in you?
Speaker 3:Relationships are number one to me. Yeah, a hundred percent in real estate. Um, you know a lot, of a lot of the people that I've helped buy and sell homes are in my phone, you know, or my, my teammate, amanda.
Speaker 3:I helped her and her husband buy a home market common five years ago and when she decided she wanted to pursue her passion in real estate, she reached out to me and asked for some opinions and throughout the conversation we kind of realized oh, she wants a team and I was thinking about maybe starting a team. So here I have. Someone I used to help through. The process of buying is now we're working with other clients together now and that was all formed through that relationship when we first worked together five years ago. I've got a huge amount of repeat clients that keep referring me to friends and family. Or, you know, I'm working with a client now that we're on their fourth house together, you know, and it's all because of that relationship In this business. For me, I guess there's a way you can be transactional with it, but for me, the sustainability of the business and to keep it fun, I don't think you can do it without relationships.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I know for me, even now more than ever, when I'm buying something or even with our house, when we were looking at real estate agents a long time ago, the way that I connected with a person and how they made me feel was really an important deal, because then that leads to okay, can I trust this person? Are they going to go to bat for me? Are they going to do the right things and also care about me as a human and getting what I want? And you know, I think so often probably in the industry there's just people that are trying very hard to do well that they sometimes lose just the natural act like find your purpose, find the natural aspect of yourself and those people that connect with you. The best will come to you oh yeah, so absolutely.
Speaker 3:And you know, we, we say it all the time. You know there's realtors here that have commission breath you know, yeah, that's that's it.
Speaker 2:That's all there is to it I think people can smell it too. Yeah, yeah, I think so. I'm sure they can so. Well, that's awesome, man. What's the best way to reach out to you, or how do you connect with people?
Speaker 3:I guess online so we have a uh, I have an Instagram and Facebook page. Keith sells the beach on Instagram, keith McGurk regular Facebook page. I also have a business Facebook page as well, but the the next chapter team at Living South is the name of the team. Awesome, yeah, we'd love to help you if you're looking to buy or sell here in the area. And because I was also a I was a REMAX agent for five years prior to um I've developed a heck of a referral network, so it doesn't matter where you're coming from Um I've I've got an agent that works your area that I can help link you so that you can kind of, you know, circumvent any of those issues with, maybe, commission breath in your area and I can connect you with a top producer that does the right thing.
Speaker 2:That's awesome man. Well, I think that's definitely needed in the industry and you know, I think with every I'm in sales too, I'm in pharmaceutical sales and with every you know every sales industry and I used to do insurance and that was gritty, but every sales industry kind of people hear that word sales and they, they get a certain way. But I think it is important to to understand and connect with people that are going to try to take you down the path of making a big purchase in your life. So I really I know you do a great job and you know, I know there's a lot of people out there, but definitely I think it's worth checking them out. So, to close out here, what would be, you know, one thing I wanted to ask you too what would be your biggest message to your sons? What do you want them? What's one thought or one thing that you really want them to cling on to when it becomes, as it comes to them growing as a man and finding their purpose?
Speaker 3:What you think you're capable of is severely limited. Just keep working hard, and when you keep God at the center, what becomes is going to be beyond your wildest dreams.
Speaker 2:Wow, I love that Simple and sweet man and I think that's that's important. I'm excited for this next generation. I think we've got a large group of parents that have really screwed up in life to where we're all you know cause I have too, man, I've done things I'm not proud of and um. But I just think we just we so much want to not just sit in our crap and stay alone. We want to fix it so that we can be a better example for our kids, because we don't want that saying. We want to break the cycle, the generational cycle that tends to happen when we just don't address these things. And so I'm excited for that. With your boys, I need men raising good men out there, because I don't want my daughters out here running in the chumps. You know exactly, I hear you. I. I teach them to put people in triangles and headlocks.
Speaker 2:so if they can handle that, then they should be good yep, absolutely awesome man. Any closing thoughts?
Speaker 3:that you have. The holidays are coming up and this is, uh, you know, as as much of joy that you see on social media and you know I was seeing a huge push this year, like right after Halloween, people were putting their Christmas trees up, dude we got ours up right now.
Speaker 2:This ain't never happened.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's unbelievable. I've I've never seen that. I don't know, maybe it's just new or whatever, but I know that there's a large group of people out there that that, that that hits a little different. You know it's a little harder to swallow. The holidays can be tougher on some people.
Speaker 3:I want you to know that you're not alone, and part of the holiday season is to reach out and realize just how much you're a part of something and change that stigma for yourself. Make this season different than the last by giving yourself an opportunity to realize that you're not alone and that you know the world needs you.
Speaker 2:Awesome, that's amazing. Yeah, well, I hope you all enjoyed hanging with Keith and I today. Really, really amazing to hear from you. I can speak to anybody I feel like, but I just feel very just blessed to be able to meet new people. I never was at this point. When I was younger, I was so stuck in my ways and my own ego and stuff, but it is so important for you to connect with others in your community, get to know people, get vulnerable. We go into grocery stores, we walk by people and we try to avoid people because there's a lot of stuff out there that wants to divide us these days.
Speaker 2:But, I think stuff like this and things that just continue to promote us coming together, us reaching our hand and arms out, hugging each other and saying Bro, I'm here for you, I got you, I see you You're doing great, keep going.
Speaker 3:Here's what I challenge everybody If you go to church. The next time you go to church, when you get to the pew and there's nobody in the row, go to the middle. And there's nobody in the row? Go to the middle Instead of sitting on the end and making everybody walk around you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, go to the middle, that's a good point, send a message that all are welcome and experience that vulnerability of being in the middle amongst people. We're all in church together for the same reason, listening to the same message. Let's commune and do it together.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, man. Well, thank you. Uh, let's commute and do it together. That's awesome, man. Well, thank you everybody for being here. Thank you, keith, for sharing your time with me today. I know you got a lot going on and a lot of you know you got kids, like me, and just life gets busy.
Speaker 3:So heading to the CCU. Sean's up, let's go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I'm excited for that. So, everybody, thank you for being with us today, as always. Keep learning and keep growing. We.