Retirement Isn’t An Ending; It’s A Redesign Of Purpose, Structure, And Freedom

What if retirement isn’t the end of your story, but the start of your most intentional chapter? We sit down with Dr. Gregg Lunceford—wealth advisor, researcher of modern retirement, and author of Exit from Work—to rethink what leaving full‑time work really means in a world where lifespans stretch toward 90. Together we pull apart the old script and rebuild it around identity, purpose, and agency.

We look beyond the numbers to the hidden income of work: psychological success, social connection, and daily structure. Gregg explains why so many struggle in year one and how to prevent the slump by designing a third age that keeps those pillars in place—on your terms. From identity rooted in profession, employer, or role, to the question “Who am I when the badge comes off?”, we offer practical ways to carry your skills and status forward through mentoring, consulting, volunteering, or a smaller, more flexible role that fits your season of life.

We also tackle the historic shift from pensions and gold watches to 401(k)s and self-directed paths, and how that change impacts expectations across cultures and generations. You’ll hear actionable strategies to negotiate phased exits, train successors, and blend paid work, service, and leisure so you can test-drive your next act before you fully step out. Along the way, we explore protean careers, legacy, and the simple truth that a modern retirement needs more than a spreadsheet—it needs a vision for meaning, community, and health.

If this conversation sparks a new way of thinking about your future, help us spread the word. Subscribe, share with a friend who’s planning their next act, and leave a review with the one change you’ll make this year.

Gregg Lunceford, PhD, CFP®, is a Managing Director and Wealth Advisor at Mesirow, where he works with people age 50 and above as they prepare for and move into retirement. Alongside his advisory work, he researches modern retirement transition, focusing on how longer lives, changing work identities, and social shifts affect the emotional side of leaving full time work. He is the author of Exit from Work and speaks widely about designing the “third age,” a stage of life shaped by purpose, reinvention, and quality of life. 

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Transcript

Coach Stacy 0:04

What happens when the job defined that defined you for thirty to forty years suddenly ends? Not because you failed, not because you were pushed out, but because it's time. Retirement used to mean a pension, a watch, maybe a beach chair, but today it's something far more complex.

Coach Wayne 0:28

People are living longer. Careers are changing, identities are shifting, and many high-achieving professions and professionals discover that retirement isn't just a financial transition, it's a psychological one. You found the midlife revolution unleashed the space to embrace your wisdom, reignite your passions, and move boldly into what's next. I am Coach Wayne, the VIP coach.

Coach Stacy 1:08

And I'm Coach Stacy M. Lewis. We're here with insights, stories, and strategies to fuel your midlife journey. So take a breath, lean in. Your revolution starts now. Well, good afternoon, Wayne, and let us welcome, welcome, welcome to Midlife Revolution Unleashed. Our special guest of today, we are joined by Dr. Greg Lunsford, managing director and wealth advisor at Misero, a researcher of modern retirement transitions, and the author of Exit from Work. Greg works with people 50 plus as they prepare for and move into retirement. And he studies what really determines whether people thrive in what he calls the third age. We want to give him a warm welcome to Midlife Revolution Unleashed. And Wayne, Coach Wayne, it is always good to see you. How are we doing today?

Coach Wayne 2:12

Hey, Stace. Hey Greg, welcome. And it's always my pleasure to be here at this time of the day for this special platform where we get to share our blessings of midlife with the folks that are listening in. I am Coach Wayne, and I help men move through their midlife so that their second half can be their best half. Coach Stacey, how are you today?

Why Retirement Is Now Midlife

Coach Stacy 2:39

I'm doing fine and fantastic. And I'm really excited to hear from our guest as uh we really talk about this important phase of life, not just, you know, Wayne and I are very focused on midlife, uh, but we are focused on the wholeness of midlife and living the richness of midlife. And so I'm truly excited about this opportunity. Welcome to those of you new to Midlife Revolution Unleashed. I am your co-host, Coach Stacy. I'm a nonprofit executive, a midlife women's coach, and a lover of God and his people, really working on making sure that that's every day and all the time and not just sometime. Greg, welcome to Midlife Revolution Unleashed.

Gregg Lunceford 3:26

Thank you so much for the warm introduction as well as the invitation to visit with you all and talk about uh retirement and midlife. Um, and I'm excited about what we're gonna dig into today.

Coach Wayne 3:40

Me too. Well, we are ready to kick off. Are you ready, Dr. Greg Lunsley? I am ready. Okay, so you know, you do a lot of work in terms of the research, you speak all over the country, you in your full-time uh position are a manager dealing with wealth and retirement issues. So tell us what has changed about retirement?

The Third Age Defined

Gregg Lunceford 4:09

Well, uh, thank you for the question. And uh and I want to just get your audience comfortable first because this is supposed to be about midlife, and and people go, I tuned in to talk about midlife stuff. Why are we talking about retirement stuff? That's that's that's older stuff. So let me put it in context uh for your audience. So the retirement has changed a great deal because life has changed a great deal for no other reason that we live longer. And so uh if you look at uh some of the research, we gain about three years of life every decade. So we live much longer than our parents who live much longer than the people before them. And so what's happening now is when we look at how long a lifespan can go, uh, it's not unreasonable to go to age 90 anymore. And there are people who go beyond, there's some people who go shorter life expectancies. But when we're looking at the calculation for the required minimum distribution that your advisor or you will learn about when it comes time to taking money out of your IRA or your retirement plan, the actuarial table actually goes out to age 90. So it and people are going, well, retirement is this old thing that old people do in their 60s. Well, if we're expecting a life expectancy of 90, 60 becomes the new middle age because we're living longer, right? And so we're talking about this thing that's really mid-life. And what has occurred is because life spans go longer, what used to be is this transition from middle age to old age, but we're young and vibrant when we're in our 60s, and so it's this transition from middle age to this undefined new thing called the third age, which can be the best part of your life if you want to understand what it is and you too properly prepare for it.

Coach Wayne 5:55

Thank you.

Coach Stacy 5:57

I'm so excited because you're absolutely right. I I think about my parents who both lived uh to and into um their 90s before they passed, and looking at my own realities of being in my early 60s and um really thinking about retirement in a way that was nothing like they talked about, which is again why I'm so excited about this conversation and with this extended lifespan, which I I I started to do the math three times 10 decades, decades and six, and then I was like, I don't know if I want to be 105, you know what I'm saying? But um, I do want to live the this stretch, this these golden years in a way that is new and fresh and exciting, and that's that's what I want.

Coach Wayne 6:57

Yeah, Stacey to your point, and Greg, you know, we're talking about a shift in outlook uh for retirement. Greg, do you think that uh we as a populace are emotionally prepared to handle the new look on midlife? Are are we still in the 1980s?

Gregg Lunceford 7:18

I think we're definitely there in terms of policy. And because the third age is a relatively new thing, people don't understand it. And so I think that uh we're there, not because we want to be there, it's just because nobody has really explained this to us. And so, what has happened over um a period of time, uh, like I said, you get three years every decade. Well, when you start looking at some of the policies that were put in place, uh such as social security policy, um the laws around ageism or whatever, you know, when you're a 40-year-old, you become you enter into a protected class, right? And a 40-year-old today is going, wait a minute, I don't feel old. Well, that was true when we were in the beginning of an industrial society where the work was more physical, where people, you know, when a social security system was created, the age 65, uh, the average man didn't live till age six up to about 61. The average female may have made it to 65. So they never intended for us to hit those targets. Those were appropriate targets at the time, right? And so in a manufacturing era or in an industrial era, you know, if we were to go back to the 1800s or early 1900s where we were doing more physical work, your body was exhausted if you were in a physical plant, if you were swinging the plant the hammer for 20 straight years, you were getting the arthritis, maybe you were breathing in toxins and things like that. We are now in a service-based economy and we have better health care. And so a 40-year-old is extremely healthy, and a 60-year-old is in many cases more healthier than a 40-year-old if you do it right, right? And so we need to put these things right in the in the proper context and start going, wait a minute, I have this life bonus now, and I am now entering in this period where I've been preparing to go in there and I don't understand what it is. It used to be this thing, and maybe I still think of it in the same context as their society is telling me I'm getting old. But what it really is is you have this life bonus where if you play it right, it could be the best part of your life. And so, why is it the best part of your life? Well, if you think about it, um you probably have more financial resources, regardless of where you are. You probably have more than you've ever had in your life. Um, you probably have more personal freedom because you have no obligations to others. And I understand there are some exceptions there, such as caring for aging parents. Um, and you get to decide before your earlier choices in life are really guided by, you know, what some adult may have told you what you ought to be, your parents, like, you know, one of my kids has to become an engineer or whatever. You get to pick. And so this could be your best part of life if you're ready for it. However, if you're looking at it through the lens of it's just retirement, which the base word is tired, which means I'm supposed to go somewhere and just shrink, uh, then you're going to miss a golden opportunity. And I'm sorry, I don't mean to say golden, but you're going to really miss a rich opportunity.

What Work Really Gives Us

Coach Stacy 10:22

It is an opportunity indeed. Um, and it leads me into the question of what do you believe most people underestimate about leaving full-time work, right? And and that shift um to really a purposeful uh retirement.

Gregg Lunceford 10:43

Well, first of all, I think when we think about the value of work, um, we think about it um in the context that we look at it when we first come into the workforce in our 20s or maybe our teens. And that is we need money. We have to pay our bills. So work is uh you're exchanging labor for economic value. And it's not, I don't think, till you get to the end stages of it, uh, maybe within the last you know, two to five years, that you start noticing these other things that that work is responsible for that that that helps you out and they become more valuable. But because you realize it's so late in the game, you don't really have a chance to leverage it. So, work to me, in addition to economic value, provides uh three great things. One, uh psychological success. I mean, we need a reason to feel good about ourselves. And who doesn't like being recognized for being good at what they do or being a good person or being reliable? Those those those things that we think about, those non-financial things that shape our identity that uh people recognize and appreciate us for. We we forget that we're developing this identity and people look up to us and respect us, regardless of what role we play. Um, there are people who are at the bottom of the organization, there are people at the top of the organization, but you know, are you here on time? Do you have a kind word? Do you are you pleasant to engage with? You know, people build social capital and and and other forms of capital in work other than economic value. The second thing that work provides is socialization. Um, we get to be at work um longer than anywhere else in the day. And some people say that's the problem with work, but and because we're in those environments for so long, we also build some very good relationships. And even if you don't build good relationships, uh the people that annoy you the most give you something to talk about when you get home. So, you know, it's a form of of social of social commentary and and laughter. So you get to go home and say, you know what that idiot Bob did again today, right? Um and so once you leave, um, you forget, you quickly recognize you don't have those social real interactions and those things to give you laughter or give you joy, give you some form of camaraderie. The third thing, which I think is one of the big things that people struggle with, is work provides us with structure in our day. Um, we have to be somewhere accountable for doing something. And if you really want to understand this, take a day off by yourself and let that go on for you know a week or so and you start to get the boredom. And so having structure in your day is a positive thing. And so what I'm learning, what I've learned from my research is people don't necessarily want to let go of work, they want to redefine work on their own terms. So maybe it's not 40 hours a week, or maybe it just goes down to 10 hours a week, or I get to determine when I want to engage or how I want to do it, or maybe I just want to traditionally just exit out all together and not do anything, but it has to be a thing of personal choice, it has to be something you choose to do versus you feel is being done to you.

Identity Loss And Reinvention

Coach Wayne 14:10

Yeah. Greg, you know, you talk about identity among some other stuff, the social construct in terms of what work provides. But all of us know that when you go out and you're introduced, you start off with what my name is and what my title is. What do I do? So we identify with our work. What happens when work ends in retirement in terms of our identity?

Gregg Lunceford 14:37

Well, in terms of identity, if you so identity is formed three different ways. Okay, so um uh it could be identity in a a uh a profession. So if you've gone through your whole community and someone's referred to you as doctor so-and-so, or principal so-and-so, or reverend so-and-so, your identity is formed in your profession. So the day that you retire, are you no longer the man of the cloth that you were? Did you lose any of your expertise around whatever it was you were focusing on, if you were a great coach or whatever, you're still that person. However, you may feel displaced because you are not formally in that capacity. So so that's one. Identity also is formed in your relationship to an organization. So, regardless if you have the biggest role in the organization or the smallest role in an organization, maybe people know you in your community because you affiliate with an outstanding brand. So maybe it's the NFL, or maybe it's Nike, or maybe it's Google, and everybody knows you as that person that works in this very accomplished stellar environment, therefore you must be be representative of that. So you get some social capital from that. And then the third one is someone you have identity from work in terms of the role. Maybe nobody knows uh anything about the first two, but you're a manager, and people just go, that person just has great leadership skills. You know, when they walk in the room and they open their mouth, I know I don't even know their name, but I know they're in charge, right? These are things that they just they just basically learn to do and have become excellent with, and because they play that role. Um, and so those things, once you step out of work, people go, Well, I still be respected because I was only respected because of those things. And if they feel as though it was those things that really got them their influence rather than it was who they really are internally, um, it could be problematic. So about 30 to 40 percent of people who uh enter into full-time retirement experience some form of depression or cognitive decline. And so the best thing, and the reason I spend so much time on this is uh there's this thing, there's a there's a there's a relationship between health and wealth. Um, if you want to erode your wealth, develop an illness, right? And so to the to the extent that we can have people who thrive in this space and at this time um and are thinking about positive outcomes and still aspiring to do things on their terms, um, they're going to have longer life and more money uh because they're not paying uh for um an illness with their time or with their financial resources to go out and have a blast.

Coach Wayne 17:28

Yeah, thank you. You know, uh I I can speak from experience. I held the position for in my early career, uh I held a position for almost two decades. And when I transitioned to something else, I was so lost. In fact, I would say, though I was not diagnosed, I was probably uh clinically depressed. I couldn't fathom being anything else but that guy who did all that. And so to your point, and and it did cost me a bit because I lost weight, I had to see the doctors, I had to do all this until I sort of reimagine what Wayne really was and my strengths and so forth, and was able to transition into the corporate world from the world of non-for-profit. So thank you for sharing that, Greg.

Gregg Lunceford 18:15

It is very real. I think about a conversation I was having with one of my uh good friends, and I write about him in my book. Um, we've known each other since childhood. He spent his whole childhood trying to become a lawyer, eventually becomes a lawyer, goes to a great organization as a lawyer, and they promote him to a different division. It was a promotion, it was more money, it was more visibility, whatever. And he's like, I'm still grappling with the fact that I'm not a lawyer anymore. And I'm going, wait a minute, this was a promotion. And so when we talk through it, it is exactly what you're saying, Coach Wayne. It was just this disconnection to where he felt in his mind his value came from.

Culture, Pensions, And Broken Promises

Coach Stacy 18:54

Yeah, the the ability or the need to recalibrate our status and how we think about our status. It's certainly something, you know, that I'm thinking about like, okay, who will I be when I'm no longer the deputy chief executive or the chief program officer? Or, you know, who will I be? And I find it to be such a motivating question and at the same time a very scary one. Um, I would want to shift just a little bit, Greg, to talk about or to hear from you what you've seen in your experience as maybe some of the cultural differences. I think about, you know, we all on this episode today happen to be African American or black and of African descent, and just thinking about the generations before us and how um they had that opportunity to say work 20, 30 years in the same place, maybe, and and collect a pension. And and so there was this sense of a possibility solely based on knowing that there was going to be a certain income once, you know, once we retire. And for us, um, now it's it's different, right? Yes, there are savings, there's retirement plans and all of that, yet there's a a different um, you know, a different financial weight from the because healthcare is just a hot mess in this country. And so, um, but I really I wonder and I'm sometime concerned just about our people and their perceptions and perspective on retirement and what it could mean, um and and how they're transitioning into that, and if you're seeing any differences, say, within black communities compared to um other cultural communities.

Protean Careers And Self-Design

Gregg Lunceford 21:07

There are there are definitely different general geographic differences, um, demographic differences, excuse me. Um, and some of them still are need for for for research. So we talk about identity. There is uh some research that suggests that there is a different uh level of anxiety between men and women. Uh men tend to go into a career path, and that's that career path for you know the next 30, 40 years. Women tend to develop a little bit better, uh, and I'm generalizing here, a little bit better, multiple identities because there are times where you're playing multiple roles and you might even come out of the workforce for a period of time to be a caretaker. And so um, the uh the identity in the work role uh may not be as hard to break away from because you found other things to give you those positive affirmations. Right? As it relates to our community, I think this is a mixed question that definitely requires more research. But what I see just in general, one, there is this fear, especially if we start looking at African American males, and you guys are the coaches, so you probably see this more so than me, that to talk about my feelings or what scares me, I'm just not ready to do that, right? And this is very, very real. And so what um what we tend not to benefit from as much is the role modeling ahead of us, right? And so because many of us that may be in certain professions, we're the first generation in our profession, so you know who who's who do we follow? And for those of us of us who may even um have have followed grandparents and and great-grandparents who may have been successful parents, I'm sorry, and grandparents that have been more successful, their reality and our reality, as you mentioned, Coach Stacy, are totally different things. I mean, the pension that provided the security. So I think about the conversations I had with my parents. They were like, finish school and get a good job and you know, wait for the gold watch. You don't wait for the gold watch anymore. Um, the gold watch doesn't exist in a lot of places. So I think the break occurred around the 1970s and 80s. I'll tell you what happened from a historical standpoint. This was a period of time where everyone was getting the pension from the company and they were also getting the public safety net. And so what we saw was our parents and our grandparents go into this period of retirement after 40 years working on the assembly line or 30, where they got the gold watch and they got uh the pension benefits paid for and they got the health care paid for, and it was a wonderful thing. Well, when you go into the global recession of uh the late 70s, early 80s, what a lot of companies started to do was they started to uh offer early exit packages. And before this, you know, we think of retirement as this life of leisure, but this is when this whole leisure thing started. Because as I mentioned earlier, you when they first put these systems together, they never intended anybody to live to this age. And if they did, they weren't going to be on the system long. So now you've given these individuals uh a lifetime benefit and they are living 10 years longer than expected, which became unsustainable, but they were having a blast. And so all of a sudden, what used to be, I am going to pick some items off of my bucket list, and the bucket list is those things that you never got to do that you say, hey, I need to get all these things done because I'm probably going to be dead in a few years. Now you're not rushing to tick off a bucket list. You're going, I got 20 years ahead of me. You know, I don't have to rush. How many rounds of golf can I play? And so what is what has happened is this became unsustainable. So all of this stuff got canceled. So you no longer see uh corporate pension plans. They were exchanged for 401k plans or 403B plans if you're in the private private sectors. You no longer see the health care and all that other stuff. So what happens is you're not only having people, people are not trying to think about retirement simply because it's scary. Um one, I feel like a failure because I'm not going to be as successful as the person that I saw retired before me, simply because I can't afford to go on three vacations a year and buy a winter home and all that other stuff because I don't have this. So what did they do that I didn't do? And so that that that I think psychologically is different for a lot of people. And then when you start talking about our community where a lot of us are first generational, how could I be first generational? And my parents invested all this and I invested all this, and I live a worse lifestyle than them, that could be very, very traumatic.

Coach Stacy 25:54

Yeah, so profound. I mean, there's so many things to think about, right? And and we want to be a show, a vessel that adds value, correct, and to really remind the listener that regardless of where you are, that there is possibility, there is uh kind of time to to make a change and and to improve whatever the uh anticipated outcome is to your best ability. And so I wanted to make sure we kind of pulled in some of that cultural nuance and dynamic um to really foster the mindset of, oh wait, I I can work on my my headspace as well as my savings.

Is Retirement A Process Or Event

Gregg Lunceford 26:45

Oh, absolutely. And this is where I think culturally where you're going to see the where you're going to see people who thrive, it's going to be people who culturally, or shouldn't say culturally, um, in terms of the demographics we're talking about, but uh culturally in terms of not only race demographics but I also think in terms of age demographics, were the people that were the outliers. I'll tell you what I mean by that. Um in order to really, because what is required is you you know you no longer have somebody think about it. Um when we were in school, we had a guidance counselor that said, What do you want, what do you want to do when you grow up? So from time we were like 12 or something, someone was always telling us this is what you aspire to and this is your next step. And then if you were lucky, when you came out, which many of the people did around the the you know our parents' time in the in the workplace, they had somebody who was a mentor for them in their in their in their work. And so, and also this was a period of economic expansion for a lot of people, and so it was no longer this, you know, how do I get from point A to point B? But somebody put their arm around them and says, you know, the company is growing and this is opportunity in Cincinnati and it's a promotion. I think you should take it, right? And so what happens when you turn 50? Do people still send you to training for that next thing? No, they go, Hey, you're gonna be gone in another 10 years. I'm investing in the 20-year-old, right? And so what this requires is for us to do a lot of self-reflection and also take a lot of initiative to replace what was once given to us in terms of mentorship and guidance and things like that. However, when you start looking at, and so um what when you start looking at um organizational behavioral theory, what they talk about is a protean career. Uh, a protean career is when a person sets their goals for themselves and defines the success for themselves and starts to self-actualize on their own. And so where we've been told success is climbing that corporate ladder to get to the top, they view it as success is me seeing my kids' soccer games and me being able to work out in the morning so I stay healthy longer. You figure out what it is on your own. Well, for one, I think culturally, because um as African Americans, we always had to figure out how to make something work in the midst of struggle. I think that creativity is there, right? I also think um, when we start looking at this from an age demographic standpoint, the people that boomers demonize the most are the millennials because they say they're not committed to their work. They always job hop and all of that. And what millennials are is they're they're they've seen the broken promise, implied contract between management and labor impact their parents and their grandparents. So basically they say, you know, like you know what? I might have a 30-year career somewhere, but it's going to be like a professional athlete. It's going to be the renewal of a bunch of short-term contracts. So maybe every four years I sign in the same city. Um, and but if I get a better deal in another city, that's where I'm gonna go. And I could be a career uh franchise player, I could be there for the whole career, but that's because you and I are gonna sit down every three to four years and decide if we still like each other. And that's what millennials do very well. And we say, well, they're not committed. Well, they realize that company could be sold at any point in time, they could be outside out of a job. They realize it could be a merger at any point in time, they could be outside out of out of a job. And so what they're doing is they're saying, Yes, I do want to be a CE up CEO, but what are the skill sets of a CEO? Well, you need to spend so much time in marketing, you need to spend so much time international. I don't have to do that in the same place. All I have to do is at the end of my 20 years demonstrate that I've developed that skill set. And so that's where I'm going to go. Well, so when I think about it in terms of the things that we have learned culturally, I think people who've had disruption, and uh some one of the some of the findings that I found when I started to do uh qualitative interviews is people who had disruption or disappointment tended to do better in this late-stage transition simply because they had developed this protein muscle.

Coach Wayne 30:56

Yeah, Greg, you know, we call it, we say it's saging with aging. You learn, you learn something based on your lived experience. You walk around the track, you know where the pitfalls are, the landmines. And it counts for a lot to speak to your your aging in terms of giving back, mentoring, reimagining what the third age or the next act should look like, coming from that perspective of having some advantage with having done the work and seen it before, you know. And and to that, Greg, um, is is retirement a one-time thing, or you know, is it is it a multi-phase transition?

Negotiating Flexible Exits

Gregg Lunceford 31:45

It can be either or. And so um it is a process. That process could be one day, you have a party and you walk out. That process could take a number of years. And so you have to figure out what is right for you. So most of us fear retirement because we're we're like, if as soon as I tell them, or either they're gonna tell me, um, we're gonna have a party, we're gonna cut a cake, and that's gonna be the end of it, what do I do? Uh, whereas there are other societies like and the Japanese have this thing called uh decompression. And so you gradually wind down your career over a number of years by taking lesser roles. So it allows you to keep that identity within the organization, and then for you to do this trade-off of lifestyle and and and also uh career balance until you do it on your do it on your own. So the point that I try to make in in my book is that exit from work is a process, you determine how long the process goes. Now, what if you don't have the ability to control the terms of that? The point that I try to make is you're more empowered than you think. Okay. You may not be able to go to your employer because with many of us with our employers, and you and I've seen people who who have been able to go to the employer and pull it off, but we tend to think of our work as a unilateral contract. They tell us what the pay rate is and what we have to do when we do it, and and that's what it is. So they get to tell us the terms, and we get to produce the output to get the reward, right? And you can think about it uh this way. Um, I I've I've seen a number of people go to their employer and say, look, you know, this is what I'm thinking. And you have to be really brave to think, say this is what I'm thinking in this environment, because sometimes people fear that it could be taken as a lack of commitment, you know, and so the next time we have the downsizing, they're gonna get rid of me next. But other people, the people that I've seen the happiest, have been able to say, you know what, I really would like to go to a modified schedule, and this is what I want to do, and this is why. And this is, but you got to go in and you got to say, this is why is good for you. So uh for instance, I can think about someone who did this very well. Now he was the head of HR for his organization, so he was definitely more savvy, but you got you got to figure out how to have this conversation. He basically said, Look, um, I know and you know that you want to turn over my chair in the next five years. Let's just be honest about it. I'm at an age and a stage, and so this is what I want, and this is why what I think will be good for the organization. Uh, one, I'm willing to train my successor. Um, uh, if you let me help you identify who my successor is, I will give them all of my direct reports. Now we'll go into a situation where I am their mentor. I will spend the next three years getting them prepared and acclimated in that role so there is no disruption, there's lots of continuity. Number two, I want to go down the three days a week. Um, number three, on the two days that I'm not here in the office, there is an organization. I want to pick one of the organizations that we support philanthropically uh with our with our with our corporate giving. And I want you to let me donate one day a week with them so they're getting a corporate executive, but we're paying for it because you're going to support that organization anyway. And the the last day of the week, I just want a day off. I want leisure. So this gave this individual the ability to say, do I like work? Do I like volunteering, or do I like leisure? Which what how much of this do I want when I finally let it go, right? Because this person realized that once they let it go, they can't come back six months later and say, I don't like it, and get that their executive role back. That role is gone. So it was good for the organization because one, um, it made them look like a big hero in the community. Such and such organization is giving us this dynamic executive for one day a week for free. Um, it allowed them to transition the new person into the role without losing any institutional knowledge, right? And number three, it allowed them to be written up in the paper if they wanted to be as this very flexible organization. That was a great place to work so that people would aspire to be there. So you have to be able to negotiate those terms and you have to be comfortable negotiating those terms, and your organization is not going to come to you for fear of being sued for ageism and say, Hey, when do you think you're going to retire? Right. And so this is what makes this very awkward. But I find that people who are able to figure out how to do this, whether it's inside of their organization or converting a hobby into something entrepreneurial or something else, um, tend to have the best success.

Succession And Returnships

Coach Stacy 36:37

Yeah, it is seeing succession as valuable to your point of whether your company sees the succession as valuable or whether you identify the succession, the need for succession for yourself, and then say, okay, what will I do in order to make my path straight or smooth? Um, you know, I think many companies uh fail. And in the nonprofit sector, we don't do as good a job at succession planning. And um, you know, I think it's something that more and more of us need to talk about uh as a way to strengthen a business, strengthen an organization, not lose that institutional knowledge and be able to really empower the next generation, so to speak, empower those that are working for us to really become the next us, whatever that is. Um there have been some organizations, I'm sorry, good.

Gregg Lunceford 37:48

I was just adding in. There's been some organizations that have been successful at that. There have been some corporations that have had returns. So you have the summer interns, uh, and then you have the returns, uh, which are people who went into retirement, didn't like it, but can come in 10 hours a week, 20 hours a week, and add tremendous institutional knowledge, industry knowledge, uh, and value to your organization. And um, and then also there's smaller and mid-sized companies that are growing that can't afford, you know, to pay you that executive salary, but would love to have you. And maybe this is a trade-off where you're trading off uh compensation for lifestyle benefit and you both win.

Coach Stacy 38:24

Love it. I love it.

Coach Wayne 38:26

I wonder as as we wind down on time, and and Greg, I know you're a busy person as well, so we want to respect that. Um, Stace, might we enter the lightning round with Greg? And then and then, Greg, uh, before you go for sure, we want you to uh promote the book that you have out there. Yes, sir. So the lighting round, Greg, we're gonna shoot some questions at you and uh just move through them. If you're ready for it, put your seatbelt on. Let's go. Okay, Greg, what is the biggest retirement myth?

Lightning Round Insights

Gregg Lunceford 38:57

The biggest retirement myth is that you're old because you're not, and so um, and that you have no value, you have no negotiating power. So think about it. Um Benjamin Franklin signed the Declaration of Independence in his 80s. Colonel Sanders launched his franchise in his 70s. There is a lot of value we bring, but we've been told that retirement is this thing that is aligned with old age. And so the the thing is, we have a lot of negotiating power. We have a lot of skill, we have a lot of net, we have a lot of networking power. You need to lose your resources and the people you know and the things that you do, and set and tell people, hey, I'm available for that next thing. Uh be a consultant, find somewhere to volunteer, whatever. You have a lot of value, and there's this mindset that we don't. This is you're being put out the pasture, and that's just not true. These are your best years. And and you're middle age. Let's let's let's not forget that. This is mid-life stuff now.

Coach Stacy 40:05

I love it. Uh, here's another lightning round question. Is doing nothing sustainable long term?

Gregg Lunceford 40:13

It is if you're prepared for it. I mean, it is it's probably not the best thing for you, but if you have prepared to do nothing, and you there's a way you do nothing, right? Right, you know, so I have a professor that's written uh a number of books on on laziness. And this is a very healthy thing, but you just can't just wake up one day and say, I'm doing nothing, right? The boredom and lack of purpose and all of that. You it's how you prepare to do to do to do nothing, right? And what you might define as nothing, somebody might define as something, right? So your nothing could be, I just want to go for long walks every day, right? For a lot of people, that's something, right? Because you give you got time to reflect, you're breathing in fresh air, you're getting physical exercise and things like that. So nothing is going to be something different for you than it is for me, and nothing might be something for a lot of people.

Coach Wayne 41:05

Yeah, I love it. You know, I removed I bought a home recently my wife and I in a 55 and older community, and boy, life has changed us looking for the window. And when I when I when I see the the elderly go for a walk, it's with a walker and a cane, and I'm like, I don't know, that's a different kind of of doing nothing. But Greg, what surprises people most in year one after retirement?

Gregg Lunceford 41:29

Well, I think in year one there's this honeymoon phase, right? Uh and so you you load up the first half of it with all, and I think I do the same thing as an empty nester now that you know the kids are you know been gone for a little while, starting to think about this a little bit, but you load up with all of this bucket list stuff, and then you after about month nine or something, you're like, I'm exhausted, I can't go to the airport again, right? And then you then you're forced to think about this stuff a little bit a little bit differently. So I think um coming out of the box, treat it as a marathon, not a sprint, and just kind of think about it and plan for it and realize you don't have to rush to anything right now. You got 10, 20, maybe 30 years. Enjoy the moment and be present in the moment.

Coach Stacy 42:18

Love it. I think our last lightning round is for you a little bit more personally. Okay. What does fulfillment look like at 70?

Gregg Lunceford 42:28

You know, so uh the fun thing about my research is I'm writing and learning the person I'm becoming. So I just love engaging and having conversations with people who are making the transition, who've made the transition, things like that. For me, um, there are just three things that are really important. Uh, one legacy, um, you know, that my children are good people, uh, and that they have good values, and that the people that follow them have all of the resources and things in place that they can be become good people to, right? The second thing is, you know, um that that I'm able to help my community, right? And that I'm able to leave the place better than than than than I found it. And so uh 70 for me would be me having a life that uh includes not only me doing things that I do to fill my day, but I find fulfilling in my day. And I find it fulfilling in the in my day to work with young people, I find it fulfilling in my day to help certain causes uh go go further, whether it be for education, whether it be healthcare, especially where there have been situations where people have not had adequate access to those types of things. So that's what 70 looks like for me.

Coach Wayne 43:41

I love it. You heard it here with Dr. Greg Lunsford, you all. Greg, thank you. Greg, tell us a little bit about the book.

Gregg Lunceford 43:49

So my book is Exit from Work. Uh, what will the new you look like? And so I think it is a very good guide to help you uh understand how we got here. Work means what it means to exit for work, and for you to think about action steps you can take to define things on your own terms, whether it be work, leisure, or something in between.

Coach Stacy 44:11

Well, we will make sure that Dr. Greg Lunsford and his fantastic book are in the show notes as we share this podcast episode with our listening audience. This has been enlightening, enriching. Um, for me, I would say to our audience, you know, one reflection prompt is retirement isn't the end of usefulness, it's the expansion of possibility. Amen.

Coach Wayne 44:42

Yeah, yeah. And and a modern retirement requires more than a spreadsheet, y'all.

Gregg Lunceford 44:50

That's that's right. Treat this the way your your counselor treated you when you were in high school, all the things that you went through, be very methodical. Uh ask questions, interview people that have been through it, ask them what their pitfalls are. Make sure the things that you are aspire to do are things that you really will enjoy and that make you feel fulfilled.

Coach Stacy 45:13

It's an opportunity. It is. It's an opportunity. It's an opportunity. This has been a fantastic episode. Our listeners uh know exactly how to get in touch with me, Coach Stacy, how to get in touch with Coach Wayne, and we will make sure that you know how to get in touch with Dr. Greg Lunsford. Coach Wayne.

Legacy, Fulfillment, And The Book

Coach Wayne 45:37

Well, listen, as I always say, I'll see you at the top. Thank you, Dr. Greg Lunsford, for being a part of this experience on Midlife Revolution Unleashed. Thank you for having me. You're welcome. Oh, Stacy, any last word?

Coach Stacy 45:54

Nope. I'm cheering you on. We'll see you next time. Thanks for tuning in to Midlife Revolution Unleashed. We're grateful you're part of this journey.

Coach Wayne 46:06

If you love this episode, share it, subscribe, and hit that notification bell so you don't miss another episode.

Coach Stacy 46:13

I'm Coach Stacy, and I'm cheering you on.

Coach Wayne 46:15

And I'm Coach Wayne, and I'll see you at the top.