When The Blue Pill Stops Working - The $3,400 ED Scam: Are You Paying for a Medical Breakthrough or a Vibrator?

What happens when the little blue pill stops working? For a significant number of men, oral ED medications like Viagra are completely ineffective. This frustration often leads men down a rabbit hole of highly marketed, out-of-pocket treatments—but not all of them are what they seem.

In this episode, we expose the dark side of the men’s health industry. A recent "secret shopper" study of 140 direct-to-consumer clinics revealed that patients are paying an average of $3,400 for a full course of "shockwave" treatment. The shocking truth? 75% of these clinics aren't even run by urologists. 

Even worse, many of them aren't using the medical-grade focused shockwave machines backed by science; they are using Class I "radial" wave devices. As experts from the Cleveland Clinic warn, these radial devices are "essentially a vibrator that doesn't deliver nearly as much energy to the penis tissues".

But there is a real medical breakthrough hidden beneath the scams. True focused Low-Intensity Extracorporeal Shockwave Therapy (Li-ESWT) is a revolutionary treatment backed by robust clinical data.

In this episode, we dive into:

• The "Vibrator" Scam: The massive difference between cheap radial waves and genuine focused shockwave therapy.
• The Science of Regeneration: How true Li-ESWT creates cellular microtrauma that triggers the release of Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor (VEGF).
• Growing New Blood Vessels: How this treatment stimulates angiogenesis (the growth of new micro-capillaries) to treat the root cause of vascular ED, rather than just masking the symptoms.
• The Ultimate Salvage Therapy: How genuine shockwave therapy has the unique ability to turn PDE5i "non-responders" back into "responders".

Don't get scammed by the wrong machine or inexperienced providers. You need a trusted medical expert using legitimate, focused shockwave technology to get real results.

Ready to fix the root cause of your ED with the right medical breakthrough? Stop wasting time and money. Contact Dr. Kumar at LifeWell MD for an expert, comprehensive evaluation and genuine restorative therapy.

📞 Call Dr. Kumar today at: 561-210-9999 🌐 Visit us online at: lifewellmd.com

Disclaimer:
The information provided in this podcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional before making changes to your supplement regimen or health routine. Individual needs and reactions vary, so it’s important to make informed decisions with the guidance of your physician.

Connect with Us:
If you enjoyed today’s episode, be sure to subscribe, leave us a review, and share it with someone who might benefit. For more insights and updates, visit our website at Lifewellmd.com.

Stay Informed, Stay Healthy: 
Remember, informed choices lead to better health. Until next time, be well and take care of yourself.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the deep dive. Today we are opening up a file that honestly most men would probably prefer to keep locked in a drawer.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Yeah, buried under a stack of old tax returns or something.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Exactly. We are talking about that very specific moment of panic when the little blue pill

The Blue Pill Panic

SPEAKER_00 0:18

just stops working.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

It is, I mean, it's a moment of genuine crisis for a lot of men.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

And it's far more common than the pharmaceutical commercials would really have you believe.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Right. We've all seen the ads, you know, the silver fox, the classic car, the sunset, everything is just perfect.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Like a perfect picture.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Trevor Burrus But the reality for a huge chunk of the population is that eventually the biology just it just stops cooperating with the chemistry. It does. And that is really where today's deep dive comes in. We are looking at a stack of research that suggests we've basically been thinking about this all wrong. We need to

From Band-Aids To Restoration

SPEAKER_00 0:52

shift from managing symptoms to actually restoring function.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Exactly. It's the difference between, say, constantly patching a tire that has a slow leak versus actually deciding to renovate the entire car. One is a temporary fix that gets you to the grocery store, but the other the other is a structural change.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

And to guide us through this today, we aren't just looking at abstract medical journals. We are diving specifically into the clinical protocols used by Dr. Kumar at LifeWell MD.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Which is incredibly relevant.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Yeah. They are based down in Florida, which is very quickly becoming this epicenter for longevity and wellness medicine.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Aaron Powell And this context is important because Dr. Kumar, he isn't just running a standard, you know, pop-up men's clinic.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Right, the ones you hear on the radio.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Exactly. He is a member of the ISSM, the International Society for

Why Pills Fail Over Time

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Sexual Medicine, and the Androgen Society.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Aaron Powell, which means what for the listener?

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Which means he is operating at the absolute highest level of evidence-based medicine. He isn't interested in just writing a prescription and sending you out the door.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

He wants a result.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

He's looking at the root causes of sexual dysfunction and using a very specific multimodality approach to actually fix it.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

So we are going to unpack the science of something called low-intensity extracorporeal shockwave therapy, or LIESWT. But here is the teaser for everyone listening. The secret sauce. Yeah, the secret sauce. It turns out the shockwave machine alone, even the absolute best one, might not be the silver bullet. Dr. Kumar has a specific combination of therapies that we are going to break down later.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

It is a fascinating protocol because it really combines physics, chemistry, and biology. It changes the entire landscape of how we treat this.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

So definitely stick around for that. But first, I feel like we have to establish the problem. Why are men even looking for alternatives to Viagra or Cialis? I mean, these drugs revolutionized the world back in the 90s. For a long time, they were the miracle cure.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

They were. And I mean, for many men, they still are. PDE5 inhibitors, that's the class of drugs Viagra and Cialis belong to, they are the first line of defense. Right. But we have to understand the mechanism here. They are vasodilators.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

They open the pipes.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Temporarily, yes. They force the smooth muscle in the blood vessels to relax, which then allows blood to flow in. But, and this is the crucial part, they do not fix the vessel itself.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Aaron Powell Okay, so if you have what the sources call vasculogenic erectile dysfunction.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Which is the most common type as men age, yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Then you essentially have a physical problem with the plumbing.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Aaron Powell Precisely. So using your tire analogy from earlier, the pill is like carrying around a portable air compressor.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

You fill the tire up every single time you want to drive, but the leak is still there. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

And the leak is actually getting worse, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Exactly. Vasculogenic ED is caused by aging, microplaque buildup, endothelial dysfunction. Basically, the lining of your blood vessels just isn't working right anymore.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

So over time, the structural deficit becomes so great that the pills simply can't force enough blood in to overcome it.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

Correct. And that is when you get the non-responders. The data shows this group is growing significantly.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

And it's not just about the drug failing to work physically either, it's the side effects.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Oh, the headaches, the flushing, stuffy nose, vision changes.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Or just the psychological burden. That was a big point in the research we pulled, the spontaneity killer.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

It's massive. If you have to plan your intimacy 45 minutes in advance, make sure you have the pill with you. Make sure you haven't eaten a heavy meal because that blocks absorption.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

It turns sex into an administrative task.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Which is the least sexy thing imaginable.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Yeah, absolutely. Men want a cure, not a crutch. They want to function like they did 10, 15 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

They want to wake up with that morning wood, which by the way is actually a vital sign of vascular health, and not have to check their watch to see if the pill is kicked in.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Okay, so enter shockwave therapy. Now I have to address the elephant in the room because the name is honestly terrifying.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

I know it really is.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Shockwave, if I'm a guy listening to this, my immediate instinct is to just cross my legs. Are we talking about electrocuting the most sensitive part of the body?

SPEAKER_01 4:59

No, no, and I am so glad we

Demystifying Shockwave Therapy

SPEAKER_01 5:01

are clearing this up right out of the gate. The name is a complete marketing disaster.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

There is absolutely no electricity involved in the sensation of the treatment. It is acoustic energy.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Acoustic. So like sound waves.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Exactly. Think of it like ribbles in a pond, but highly, highly focused. Or actually, better yet, think of a really powerful subwoofer at a rock concert.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Oh, right, where you can literally feel the sound.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

You feel the vibration right in your chest. It's similar physics, but focused into a medical beam.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

It's actually the same core technology used in lithotripty to break up kidney stones, but and this is a massive but at a much, much lower intensity.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

So we're not smashing anything.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Right. We are talking about maybe one-tenth of the energy used for kidney stones. We aren't trying to destroy tissue.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

So if we aren't smashing stones, what are these sound waves actually doing?

SPEAKER_01 5:53

We are stressing the tissue. The scientific term you'll see in the literature is a mechanotransduction.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Okay, let's unpack that. Because usually when we talk about stress on the body, it's a bad thing. Why do we want to stress the penis?

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Well, think about going to the gym. When you lift heavyweights, you are actually creating microscopic tears micro trauma in your muscle fibers.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Right. And then the body repairs them to be bigger and stronger.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Exactly. This is the exact same principle. The acoustic waves cause microscopic stress to the penile tissue. It basically tricks the body into thinking there is a minor injury that needs immediate repair.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Oh, I see.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

And the body responds to that signal by releasing a whole cascade of growth factors.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

And this is where we get to that acronym I kept seeing in Dr. Kumar's clinical notes, VEGF.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Yes. Vascular endothelial growth factor. This is the magic signal. VEGF triggers angiogenesis, which is the creation of brand new blood vessels.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Wait, hold on. We aren't just stretching out the old clogged vessels. We are actually growing new plumbing.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

That is the big aha moment. That is exactly why Dr. Kumar focuses on this at Life WellMD. It is the only treatment modality we currently have that has the potential to be truly restorative.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

You're rebuilding the infrastructure.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

You are recruiting endogenous stem cells, your body's own internal repair crew, and physically rebuilding the vascular network from the ground up.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

That is incredible.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

It is. And it goes beyond just blood flow, too. The animal studies and the broad clinical reviews show it helps break up those microcalcifications.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

The plaque you mentioned earlier.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Right. And it also promotes neurogenesis.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Nerve regeneration.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Yes. A lot of guys really don't realize that ED isn't just a blood flow issue, it's highly dependent on sensitivity.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Because as we age, nerve sensitivity drops across the board.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Exactly. So if you can restore the nerve signaling and the blood flow at the same time, you are tackling the problem from both ends of the spectrum.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Okay, that sounds fantastic in theory. But I'm looking at the evidence folder we compiled here, and I want to play devil's advocate for a second.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Go for it.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

We see a lot of things in medical research that work great in mice but fail completely in men. What are the actual clinical receipts here?

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Aaron Ross Powell The receipts are very solid, but you have to look at the right data. If we look at the major meta-analyses, which reference over 139 articles and specifically the randomized controlled trials.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

No adult standard.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Right. We see significant improvements in the IIEF5 score.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

That's the standard questionnaire doctors use to grade ED.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Correct. Men who undergo this focus therapy see those scores go up significantly. They also see a marked improvement in the EHS.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

The erection hardness score.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Which is remarkably self-explanatory. It is. But here is the most compelling data point for the guys

How Mechanotransduction Heals Tissue

SPEAKER_01 8:41

listening right now who feel like the pill has completely failed them. We see a very strong converter effect.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

The converter effect.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Yes. This is what Dr. Kumar sees in his clinic constantly. The therapy can take a man who is a non-responder, someone for whom Viagra literally does nothing anymore, and turn them back into a responder.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Wow. So even if the shock waves don't get you to 100% medication-free status, it might make the medication actually work again.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Exactly. It rehabilitates the tissue just enough that the whole system comes back online. Dr. Bodic from the Cleveland Clinic is quoted in our sources giving a really fair, grounded estimate. He tells patients there's about a 75% chance of a satisfactory benefit.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

I mean, 75% is pretty good odds when the alternative is a surgical penile implant or just given up on your sex life entirely.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

It really is. But we do have to be realistic about durability. And Dr. Kumar is very upfront about this with his patients.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

It's not permanent.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

It's not a one-and-done magic trick that lasts forever. You are still fighting the aging process.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Gravity always wins eventually.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Right. The studies show the effects often peak around six to twelve months. After a year or two, you might start to see a decline again.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

So it's maintenance. Kind of like going to the dentist for a cleaning or going to the gym.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Perfect analogy. Yeah. You can't lift weights for three months, get ripped, and then sit on the couch for two years and expect to stay that way. You need maintenance.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

But if you compare a maintenance shockwave session, once or twice a year, to taking a pill every single time you want to be intimate, that is a trade-off many men are very happy to make.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Absolutely. Now, before everyone rushes out to Google shockwave therapy near me, we have to talk about the vibrator controversy.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Because in researching this, I found some very sketchy stuff being sold online.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

This is a critical consumer warning. If you're listening to this and you remember only one thing from this deep dive, let it be this. Not all shockwaves are created equal.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Break it down for us. What's the trap men are falling into?

SPEAKER_01 10:45

The trap is the massive difference between focused shock waves and radio waves.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

And Dr. Kumar uses Dr.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Kumar uses focused shockwaves, LIESWT. These are class two medical devices. They generate energy that penetrates deep into the tissue, right down into the cavernous structures where the main gut vessels actually are. So it's precise. It's like a sniper shot of acoustic energy.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

And radial waves, what are those?

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Radio waves are class I devices. You see these in non-medical spas, maybe chiropractic offices, or sold directly on Amazon as home devices.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Right. I've seen the ads for those.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

They are essentially acoustic hammers. The energy spreads out on the surface of the skin.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

So it's a ripple on the surface, but it doesn't go deep.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

It creates a superficial vibration. It's great for treating tennis elbow or maybe a sore calf muscle, but for ED, the physics simply do not work.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

It just doesn't reach the target.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

It doesn't penetrate deep enough to cause that necessary microtrauma in the erectile tissue.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

So if you're going to a place that feels a bit more like a day spa than a real medical clinic, and they're using what looks like a handheld massager.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

You are likely paying for a very expensive, totally ineffective massage. Yeah. The sources explicitly state that these radial devices are often marketed deceptively.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

That is a huge distinction to be aware of.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

If you want the biological result, the angiogenesis, you need the medical-grade focused technology that experts like Dr. Kumar use.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Okay, so we've got the right technology established, but earlier you tease Dr. Kumar's secret sauce. We know the focus shockwave is good, but looking at the Life Well MD protocol, they don't just rely on the machine.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

No, they don't. And this is really where the art of medicine meets the science. Dr. Kumar uses a multimodality approach. He understands that ED is rarely just one single isolated thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

It's a system failure.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Exactly. It's usually a triad. Vascular health, hormonal health, and tissue health.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Aaron Powell, so walk us through this triad. What does his actual protocol look like?

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Step one is the LIESWT, the focus shock waves we just discussed, to rebuild the hardware, the vessels themselves. That's your foundation.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Rebuild the pipes, got it.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Step two is hormone optimization. Because you cannot drive a car with a newly rebuilt engine if there's no gas in the tank.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Testosterone is the fuel.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

And I think people really misunderstand testosterone. They think it's just about libido just wanting to have sex.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

It is that. But it's also critical for the structural integrity of the penis itself. This is fascinating. If a man is hypogonautal, meaning he has low T, the penile tissue actually begins to atrophy.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

It physically changes.

Clinical Evidence And Converter Effect

SPEAKER_01 13:23

It shrinks and becomes fibrotic, use it or lose it. Literally. Literally. No amount of shockwave therapy is going to give you a satisfactory result if the hormonal signal isn't there to support the tissue. So Dr. Kumar ensures those levels are optimized first so the tissue actually can heal.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

That makes total sense. You need the biological environment to be right. And step three, this is the one that sounds the most futuristic to me.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Step three is regenerative medicine, specifically the P shot. This involves platelet-rich plasma or PRP.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Now we've heard of PRP a lot in sports medicine. Guys like Tiger Woods, Raphael Nadal, they use it for their knees and elbows.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Same exact concept. They draw a small amount of your own blood, spin it down in a centrifuge to concentrate the platelets and the growth factors, and then inject that healing soup directly into the target tissue.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

And how does that stack with the shock waves? Why do you need to do both?

SPEAKER_01 14:11

It's all about synergy. Think about it this way: the shock waves create the micro stress that screams to the body, hey, come fix this area right now. Okay. The PRP then provides a massive, highly concentrated dose of the exact raw materials needed to fix it.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

So you're calling the construction crew with the shock waves, and then you're dropping off a truckload of premium bricks and mortar with the PRP.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

That is a fantastic way to visualize it. And when you do that in an environment where the testosterone levels are already optimized, you are creating the absolute best possible environment for biological restoration.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Now, I have to play double's advocate just one more time. The sources do mention that the AUA, the American Urological Association, still considers PRP to be experimental.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

They do, and that's important to acknowledge. But clinical guidelines often lag years behind cutting-edge clinical application.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Right. The bureaucracy moves slow.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Exactly. That is why seeing an expert like Dr. Kumar is so crucial. He isn't just trying things out blindly, he's applying deep clinical experience to select patients who will actually benefit from this synergy.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Speaking of selecting patients, who is this really for? If I'm a guy listening to this, how do I know if I'm the right candidate for Dr. Kumar's protocol?

SPEAKER_01 15:27

It is not for everyone. And Dr. Kumar is very, very clear about that. He's not running a mill where everyone who walks in the door gets the exact same package.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

So who's the ideal patient?

SPEAKER_01 15:37

The ideal patient has mild to moderate vasculogenic ED.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

So the guy for whom the pills are just starting to fail.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Exactly. Or the guy who hates the side effects and wants off the medication, or the guy who just wants his spontaneity back.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

You have to have some baseline function left to work with.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Right. If you have severe nerve damage, say from a radical prostatectomy where the nerves were cut, shockwave therapy likely won't work because that neural connection is just completely gone.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

What about total blockage of the vessels?

SPEAKER_01 16:07

If the vessels are completely calcified or destroyed, the response will be very limited. It's about rehabilitation. You need something there to rehabilitate.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

So if you're sitting there thinking, hey, this sounds exactly like me, what does the actual commitment look like?

SPEAKER_01 16:21

It's a true regimen. You can't go in once and be cured. Typically, it's anywhere from six to twelve sessions spread over a few weeks. You have to be willing to show up and do the work. It's basically physical therapy for your penis.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

I really love that framing. We do physical

Results, Durability, And Maintenance

SPEAKER_00 16:35

therapy for our knees, we do rehab for our hearts after a cardiac scare, we watch our diet for our gut health. But for some reason, we treat sexual health like it's just magic.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

And that is the exact philosophical shift Dr. Kumar is pushing for at LifeWell MD. If we treat our heart health with exercise and proactive maintenance, why do we treat sexual health only when it completely breaks down?

SPEAKER_00 16:58

We wait for the crisis.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Exactly. We need to treat the penis as a vital vascular organ that needs ongoing rehabilitation and care, not just a last-minute medication.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

So let's wrap this up with a very clear path forward for the listener. If you are tired of the diminishing returns of the pill or you just want to get back to a place of true restoration rather than just symptom management, there is a science-backed path.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

There absolutely is. But you can't just buy a gadget off the internet. You need a dedicated medical expert.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Right. And if you are in Florida, or honestly, even if you're willing to travel for the right care, Dr. Kumar at Life WellMD is the expert we've been profiling today.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

He's the one combining the focused shockwave technology with the hormonal support and the regenerative protocols to actually fix the underlying plumbing.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

And remember, he's a member of the ISSM. He's vetting these patients incredibly carefully. You aren't just a number walking through his door. He's focused on actual results.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

If you want to find out if you're a candidate, you should reach out to his team directly.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

The website is lifewellmd.com. That's lifewellmd.com. Or you can actually just pick up the phone right now and call 561-210-9999.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

It's entirely worth the call just to see if you fit the clinical profile. Dr. Kumar focuses on real results. So his team is going to tell you the truth about whether this protocol will actually work for you.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Absolutely. That number again is 561-210-9999. Don't settle for a band-aid if a full renovation is possible.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

And I'll just leave everyone with this final thought. We work so hard to optimize every other part of our health as we age. Our brains, our hearts, our joints, our muscles. Right. Why should this be the one single area of our biology where we just passively accept the decline?

SPEAKER_00 18:41

It shouldn't be. Thanks for diving deep with us today. We'll catch you on the next one.