Grandma Has ADHD

Episode 45 - Did MY Grandma Have ADHD - Jami interivews her cousin Dr. Jane

• Jami Shapiro • Episode 45

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In this heartfelt and insightful episode, Jami welcomes her cousin and longtime family therapist, Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon. With decades of experience in marriage and family therapy—and a personal journey with ADHD—Jane brings a refreshing mix of wisdom, humor, and vulnerability to the conversation.

Together, they explore the intergenerational signs of ADHD, what ADHD can look like in older women, and how family dynamics play a role in both recognizing and managing the condition. From hilarious stories about purple ponchos to raw truths about marriage, grief, clutter, and legacy, this episode is as real as it gets.

Whether you’re navigating ADHD yourself, wondering if your parents (or grandparents!) had it, or trying to preserve harmony in your family while decluttering, there’s something here for you.

Thank you for joining us for this episode of Grandma Has ADHD! We hope Jami's journey and insights into ADHD shed light on the unique challenges faced by older adults. Stay tuned for more episodes where we’ll explore helpful resources, share personal stories, and provide guidance for those navigating ADHD. Don’t forget to subscribe and share this podcast with friends who might benefit. Remember, Make the rest of your life the best of your life.

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Have you ever thought, is this just me? When struggling to stay organized, start tasks, or manage time, for those of us over 50, these challenges might not be just aging. They could be ADHD hiding in plain sight for decades. I'm Jamie Shapiro, host of Grandma has ADHD, and I'm building a community where your experiences matter.

Whether you are diagnosed, questioning or simply curious. You are not alone. Our Facebook group is filled with vibrant understanding. People over 50 who share their stories, strategies, and yes, even their struggles with plenty of laughter along the way. Ready to find your people. Join our growing grandma has ADHD Facebook community.

Please like and subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and share it with someone who might need to hear. They're not alone because ADHD doesn't have an age limit and neither does understanding yourself better. Together, we're changing the conversation about ADHD after 50 come be part of the story.

 

[00:01:29] Jami Shapiro: I am beyond excited and I use excited a lot, but I am beyond excited to introduce today's guest to you. This is a person that I have been begging to be on the podcast since before there was a podcast. She is besides my mother and my oldest child she knows me better than any of my other guests.

[00:01:53] Jami Shapiro: Her name is Dr. Jane Rosen Grandin. She is a PhD and she is a marriage and family therapist who has spent her professional life dedicated to helping her clients achieve stability and satisfaction in their lives. Her unique column had been published for over 20 years by the Hamburger Square Post in Greensboro, North Carolina.

[00:02:15] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Where she resides with her husband and partner of over 40 years together they have two grand children.51 

[00:02:23] Jami Shapiro: years now. 51. Well, I should know this because I'm getting to the punchline. So they, they have two grown children, two grandchildren. And they live in what I affectionately have called since I can remember the zoo because there have always been a lot of animals.

[00:02:41] Jami Shapiro: Jane is my cousin, actually, I was the flower girl at her wedding, and so it is going to be a. Super, super fun conversation. We're gonna talk a little bit about my childhood and how she knows me. I'm gonna talk about what I remember about her and then we're gonna talk about ADHD in our family.

[00:03:04] Jami Shapiro: Oh, so much to cover. like I said, beyond excited to welcome Jane. And I will also say this, that I am divorced, but before I got divorced, I would call Jane on a regular basis to get marital advice. And because she has an amazing marriage I just adore her. and Gary I think it was because they had the best flower girl ever and that was why they had such marriage success.

[00:03:28] Jami Shapiro: But she's also. That was me. The book that she has written Keeping Love Alivehas been printed 11 times. So it's 11th printing. Not that it's only 11 copies. I have read it. I remember actually one thingthat I learned from you or I read it, was like how important it was to connect every single day and that you and Gary would get in the hot tub and at the end of the day you would talk about your day and that was like your time away from everybody else did right.

[00:03:55] Jami Shapiro: That is 

[00:03:56] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: still true. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:03:58] Jami Shapiro: So anyway, thank you. Thank you. so I have been really literally asking, Jane, please, please be on my podcast. She, is a grandma with ADHD, so she definitely fits the narrative. But again, I have a personal connection to Jane and really always respected her. She was my unofficial godmother, my mom and dad.

[00:04:18] Jami Shapiro: Could not get it together to agree. But I was always told by my mother, Jane, that it was supposed to be, but you are actually my youngest child's godmother too. So anyway, yes, that's a whole other conversation. So welcome to the podcast. 

[00:04:31] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Thank you so much, Jami. I appreciate it. 

[00:04:34] Jami Shapiro: So, we talked before the episode that you are not an ADHD specialist.

[00:04:39] Jami Shapiro: That's not how you practice. But I do wanna learn a little bit about your ADHD personal story and how you discovered that you had ADHD if we can go there first. That's what I do with all my guests. 

[00:04:52] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Absolutely. and I'm learning more about this and reflecting more sort of. Whether it's daily, weekly, or monthly, it's, different ideas sort of pop into my mind and I kind of reflect back.

[00:05:04] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I'm at that age now. I reflect back and I see different patterns. And I think I mentioned to you I remember very clearly in fourth grade my mother being called in because the teacher had kind of had enough of, she would pass out the papers, give all the instructions, and I'd raise my hand and say, what are we doing?

[00:05:22] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And as I look back, certainly a big indicator and nothing of course was recognized except that it was bad behavior. But then when I was in seventh grade, we had like An intern, I thought it was an intern. And this woman, I know, she would come in and out of the classroom and one day she said, would you come out in the hall and talk to me?

[00:05:42] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And I said, gosh, I'm not the dumbest, I'm not the smartest. I don't know why you'd wanna talk to me. And she said, well, because you are the kid who every time the clock ticks. You look at it and every time someone walks down the hallway, you're following it, you're tracking it, and every time a bird flies by the window, man, you got it.

[00:06:02] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: So I realized that more and more that is truly me, Unfortunately, it was not acknowledged. AlthoughI was told that she had relayed this information to my parents, but nothing was ever said. 

It just 

[00:06:15] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: wasn't even given the title of ADHD at that time, 

[00:06:18] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: It was just sort of acknowledging that I was a kid who did something different. 

[00:06:23] Jami Shapiro: Easily distracted. You know, that is the unfortunate thing. in fact, when Will my oldest came to me and said, I have ADHD, I said, no, you don't. You've been reading since you were three. Because I couldn't sit still to read.

[00:06:36] Jami Shapiro: So in my mind it was the hyperactive little boy that was ADHD and everybody thought that hyperactive little boy would outgrow it. And here we are. Not the case. 

[00:06:46] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: We just don't seem to outgrow the ADHD kind of stuff.

[00:06:50] Jami Shapiro: We don't. So when did you get diagnosed Jane? 

[00:06:53] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: In my thirties. 

[00:06:55] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: 

[00:06:55] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I had already finished a master's degree. another thing that popped into my head was just the recognition that growing up I thought everybody had to read a paragraph six times to know what it was in it, you know?

[00:07:06] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: But I'd start reading in one sentence, I'd kind of get distracted and my thoughts would go somewhere else. I, oh, I'm at the end of the paragraph. I have no idea what I just read. And so, I was one of these people that just had to read, and read, and read, and read to To get through the material.

[00:07:20] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And it's still true. 

[00:07:22] Jami Shapiro: And yet you have a PhD. So there we are. So we're gonna interweave, this is also gonna be cousin, part, therapist, part grandma with ADHD When did you realize that I had ADHD? Because I've only known for 10 years. 

[00:07:37] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Maybe yesterday.

[00:07:40] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Really? Maybe when we started, I never really recognized it in you, to be honest. Wow. 

[00:07:45] Jami Shapiro: Yeah. Wow. Well, you also have your own children and your own work, but like, from what I understand, I'm actually combined type, so I'm hyperactive and inattentive.

 And, 

[00:07:55] Jami Shapiro: I think, looking back it was like so obvious, but anyway, so I'm just tell you a wonderfully engaging child. Well, that's true. That runs in our family. Right? So one of the conversations that we were having was when I had suggested to you that I thought that it was my grandfather that had ADHD and we're related.

[00:08:15] Jami Shapiro: So my grandmother, Miriam, was Jane's mother's sisters. Aunt Viv. So we're related maternal, and I had suggested to Jane that I thought that it was my grandfather who had ADHD. And the reason that I had suggested that is my grandfather although he had gone to school for accounting, he could never take the CPA exam.

[00:08:36] Jami Shapiro: And I can actually remember your father commenting on that. And, looking back at the pieces, I think it was just he didn't have. the ability to focus and, take the test. I think that's one of the reasons. And then you were the first person to suggest to me that you thought that my grandmother, who by the way, was my favorite person in the entire world, that she may have had ADHD.

[00:08:59] Jami Shapiro: And, so I said to Jane, I think I'm gonna have to title this episode. Did my grandma have ADHD? So, Jane, what makes you say that? My grandmother would've you think looking back, had ADHD. 

[00:09:12] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Well, first, I wanna just say that I was very close with my Aunt Miriam, your grandmother. And I was privileged.

[00:09:18] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I felt that she trusted me and she confided in me even when I was a teenager. And I always had a big deal of respect for her. I always thought she was extremely bright, and well, I guess she did work for a while and, several years. She did work, but, she was one who struggled with self-esteem and struggled with smoking cigarettes.

[00:09:39] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Had a very hard time giving up cigarettes And smoked for years. Ironically, I would just share with you that over my shoulder right here, this is a painting, this is a drawing she did. Oh, oh, 

[00:09:52] Jami Shapiro: okay. I can't really see it, but okay. 

[00:09:54] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: it's flowers, beautiful flowers. She did that, I'm sure in the last decade of her life.

[00:10:02] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: by the way? I'm sorry. Can you hear Benji barking at me? Yes, I do. We're gonna have to take a pause. I'm so sorry he hasn't walked, but when I leave him out of the room for the podcast, then he scratches at the door. and I am still recording in my home.

[00:10:19] Jami Shapiro: Yes, Benji, we hear you. The world hears you, Benji. So we're gonna take a pause so that I can let Benji go outside where I won't have to hear him. And then we will come back to cousin, Dr. Grandma Jane. I like that.

 

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I combine my years of hands-on work as founder of Silver Linings Transitions, a move management and home organizing company, together with ADHD coach, training and help adults 50 and over connect the dots between ADHD and lifelong struggles. Whether you are downsizing, decluttering, or simply trying to create systems that work for your ADHD brain, I provide virtual and in-person coaching for those in the San Diego area.

Together we'll develop practical strategies that honor how your brain actually works, not how you think it should work, ready to trade. Shame for understanding. Visit Grandma has adhd.com. Or call to schedule a discovery session at 7 6 0 6 0 7 7 3 7 7 because it's never too late to finally make sense of your story.

 

Ever wondered why helping a loved one declutter feels like speaking different languages? I did, especially with my mom. It wasn't until I founded Silver Linings Transitions helping San Diego seniors organize and move for over a decade that I discovered why we all experienced clutter differently. And for those of us with ADHD, it's a whole other world.

If you are listening in the San Diego area and feeling stuck with moving. Paperwork, photos or home organization. Our team at Silver Linings Transitions gets it. We understand ADHDs unique challenges and we won't just help you get organized. We'll create sustainable systems that. Finally stick Schedule a consultation with our team today at 7 6 0 5 2 2 1 6 2 4.

That's 7 6 0 5 2 2 1 6 2 4 or find us@silverliningstransitions.com. 

 

 

[00:13:15] Jami Shapiro: And we are back with Jane and Benji has been taken care of. And don't worry Jane is like probably one of the biggest animal lovers I know.

[00:13:22] Jami Shapiro: I did not kill him. I just shoved him outside.

[00:13:27] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I got my dog in here too. I understand. So, 

[00:13:30] Jami Shapiro: so my grandmother, low self-esteem, very artistic, bright. Confided in you. A lot of 

[00:13:38] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: very active, very bright learning, always. Can't say enough good things about her. 

[00:13:44] Jami Shapiro: I feel the same way.

[00:13:45] Jami Shapiro: And I don't wanna make this a tribute to my grandmother, but she was extraordinary. She, really was my favorite person. And also she was so young in her thinking and so hip, she was. Just always really, I think, ahead of her time that way. And any other things that make you think now that she had ADHD?

[00:14:02] Jami Shapiro: Just, because some of the people that are listening to this podcast are people who are, older and realizing, looking back on their lives, oh my gosh, this whole time I've had ADHD. So when they hear themselves and other people's stories, I think that helps them to connect with, oh yeah, that was me.

[00:14:18] Jami Shapiro: I think that as I look back I remember your grandmother doing a lot of hand wring as did her mother, as does my mother, as does me. So that would be more the case. Oh, she was active and she was always in life. She was very active in life.

[00:14:39] Jami Shapiro: your theory on the smoking, that is actually one of the things that I have, learned is that a lot of that generation, they did smoke and nicotine was calming and so it's very possible because I only knew my grandmother as a smoker that, I didn't get to see. Those things. And again, I was a child, but I wanna go back 'cause I would hate to have you on this podcast and not address something that's really, really significant.

[00:15:04] Jami Shapiro: And that is successful marriages with people with ADHD and I know that people with ADHD tend to have a much higher divorce rate. And since not ADHD is your area of specialty, but marriage and family, I would love to kind of. Talk to you about your thoughts and just kind of share with you sort of what I've come with as an 80 as I'm actually a divorce coach as well.

[00:15:26] Jami Shapiro: Okay. So what do you think Jane? 

[00:15:28] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Well, I think that it's very important that spouses and family members know each other and when I say know each other, that they understand how they think, so that when things go awry, we can read each other and For example, my husband is very good at knowing that I am just.

[00:15:45] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Through the house. I am on its hair, I am doing things, I am busy and that I thrive on that. So I think a real appreciation for how people think, and for the importance of, Pursuing whatever it is your thought is and trying to, learn and trying to be active and just doing whatever it is that we do, but an appreciation that, hey, this is me.

[00:16:08] Jami Shapiro: Nothing wrong with me. I am accomplishing what I need to do and I have my own agenda at times. But appreciating that, As you are together for many years, you sort of have an appreciation for how the other person thinks and what they need in order to remain organized. Yeah, I definitely think having a partner who is balanced it's been great for me. My partner is the opposite of ADHD. He, takes forever to make a decision now. And we recognize each other. We kind of call it that yin and that yang. But what else do you think would be, a critical for a successful marriage for someone with ADHD?

[00:16:46] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Well, I think taking time to calm oneself is really important. I think most important is taking that time every day to kind of debrief, to talk about the day, to kind of sort things out, to get each other's thoughts, to share your own 

thoughts, 

[00:17:03] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: just to kind of do a little. Dump of All these things that have happened.

[00:17:10] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Because I think that when our thoughts are all internal and we're not talking about them, they build up inside of us. 

[00:17:16] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And then we begin to think all of the things that we think. But I think that when you can share that with somebody openly and, and respond and remark to each other, how we see each other, it really helps keep that balance.

[00:17:30] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: So I think they're respecting the way each person thinks and the value that you place on things like learning, reading, pursuing, setting new goals, deciding to do new things that keep you active. I think respecting that in each other and understanding how we all think really helps.

[00:17:48] Jami Shapiro: I imagine that you're familiar with Brene Brown. 

 

[00:17:51] Jami Shapiro: So she has ADHD I believe. And one of the things that I like that she does is she will go to her husband when something's going on and say the story I'm telling myself is, whatever.

[00:18:04] Jami Shapiro: And I will say that is definitely a trait of ADHD is that we ruminate and we will catastrophize and we will make something in our heads so much bigger than it actually is. And I totally do that with my partner. And now I have the words to say. this is what's going through my head. And then he has the opportunity to say, that's not what's happening for me.

[00:18:23] Jami Shapiro: So that's huge. 

[00:18:25] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Really huge. That's wonderful. 

[00:18:28] Jami Shapiro: I will also say, I think I have another theory for why the divorce rate among people with ADHD is so high. we've not had this conversation before, so I'd love to hear what your thoughts are. One is that people with ADHD we crave the chaos and the excitement and some.

[00:18:45] Jami Shapiro: People with ADHD will almost look for trouble and they might, be in a good situation and then maybe blow it up or maybe attract a partner that feels chaotic for them, because maybe that's repeating a pattern from their family. So they've attracted those partners. And then I would also say that when you have ADHD, sometimes you are not the best partner.

[00:19:06] Jami Shapiro: And I know that this was one of the problems that I had in my marriage where my ex-husband wanted me to sit and be with him and focus, and I couldn't. Sit and just be with him. and then I would forget things or the house wasn't orderly and, that can cause a lot of chaos.

[00:19:22] Jami Shapiro: So I'd love to hear, I just threw a lot of stuff out would love to hear what you think of what I just said. 

[00:19:27] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Well, I think the part about folks with ADHD sometimes craving chaos, I think that's pretty accurate. And I also think that In order to get along and be able to live with people, you really have to develop a respect for what people need and to be organized.

[00:19:43] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And what makes people feel good in the environment. And so I think that you really have to stretch yourself and become very sensitive to what the other person is asking of you. And when that is incompatible, it's difficult and it's okay to be very different, but if you can't talk about it and share it and receive the kind of respect and support that you need, you can begin to feel very lonely in a relationship.

[00:20:10] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And when you feel lonely in a relationship, you begin to seek help and friendship elsewhere. And you stop talking to your partner. And from there it just begin to you don't know each other in a very short time. You just dunno each other. 

[00:20:23] Jami Shapiro: So I'm gonna go. anything else? I feel like I'm dragging things outta you and I wanna make sure that people who are tuning in, because I suspect you're gonna have both ends.

[00:20:32] Jami Shapiro: And in terms of my podcast, I've had people who have had several marriages and are, now single and looking at their lives. and I have some that have had, like, you have had a very successful marriage. So just trying to, make sure that. Whatever we're sharing with our audience is something that's gonna resonate with them.

[00:20:50] Jami Shapiro: Whether, maybe haven't had a successful relationship and they're beating themselves up about it, or they're in a relationship or in a new relationship and they wanna keep it strong.

[00:21:03] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Well, that's a lot of thoughts. and in some ways I followed every single word and then it went, and I kind of know that about myself. And my partner needs to kind of know that about myself, that it's really easy to become overwhelmed by thoughts and ideas.

[00:21:20] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And so sometimes you don't hold onto your thoughts as clearly as you might. Yes. So, a real appreciation, I think, again, for how people think, what people need. it's a communal activity, living together, being in a relationship, it's communal, everybody's thoughts and feelings has to be accounted for in some way.

[00:21:40] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And so you have to know yourself. I have to know myself. That's the big deal, is because I can't fake it as well as I think I can. I could try to fake it, I would absolutely try to fake it, but In the end, I really know that, a lot of times my thoughts they go different places because 

[00:22:00] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I'm easily distractible. 

[00:22:03] Jami Shapiro: Right. I mean, I know, and, that's where I come. I just threw a bunch of them out at you because I'm like, if I don't get it out, then I'm gonna forget that I had that thought. Right. 

Exactly. 

[00:22:10] Jami Shapiro: Exactly. Okay. So I'm gonna turn. I 

[00:22:13] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: think the big thing is recognizing how for your partner to know and really appreciate and respect how you think, whether you have ADHD or not.

[00:22:23] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: to know how the other person thinks and to value that process. So it's not about saying, well, you're inferior in some way, or you're superior in some way, but that we're different. And we need different things. We need, to see things or we need to touch things in order to understand what they are.

[00:22:41] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Or we need to hear things, in a certain way. Because each one of us has a different sensory pathway that makes the most sense to us. Okay. 

[00:22:51] Jami Shapiro: I'm going to change direction of the conversation and share a funny story if I may.

[00:22:56] Jami Shapiro: Jane. so one of the things that I do in my work before I started the grandma has ADHD podcast is I became a senior move manager where I go into people's homes and my company goes in and we help them make the decisions about what they're going to keep when they're, downsizing or rightsizing to a smaller place, to a senior community to live.

[00:23:19] Jami Shapiro: To move, to be near their children, whatever their reason is. Or maybe just to go from a two story home to a one story home. And there are a lot of decisions that get made. And I will say for people with ADHD, it's gonna be even harder, but it's hard for anybody who is going through a lifetime of belongings and having to make decisions.

[00:23:38] Jami Shapiro: And I will also say, Jane, you touched on something, and I don't know if you've heard the term gerotranscendence before, or do you know this one? Then I'm gonna be so excited to share this with you. So Eric Erickson, when he and his wife got into their eighties and he had developed the eight stages of life, 

right?

He and 

[00:23:57] Jami Shapiro: his wife started to talk to their friends about where they were at that point, and they realized that they were reflecting a lot and they were sort of coming to a peace about the lives that they had lived and their relationships and, coming to peace with the idea that they were going to die.

[00:24:12] Jami Shapiro: And really just sort of wrapping things. Up and I think, so much understanding ADHD and with that lens when we're going back is gonna be so valuable to, people later in life who discovered that they have ADHD. I'm going somewhere with this. Okay. So one of the things that I do is I do a presentation called Do you own your stuff or Does your stuff own you?

[00:24:37] Jami Shapiro: And I'm in San Diego, so I will normally ask the audience. The first thing I say is, if I told you that you were gonna leave San Diego next week and only take the things that you wanted and you were gonna leave everything else behind, I said, I want you to raise your hand really high if your family would want your stuff.

[00:24:56] Jami Shapiro: So please raise your hand. And then everybody looks around the room because nobody's hand is up and everybody is laughing. So then I give them some tips on what they can do to get the Yes. One of those tips, Jane, is you are the, brunt of the punchline. Okay. So I believe it was my 50th birthday, Jane sends me this, I don't, for those of you who can't see it, it's a purple and white poncho from the 1960s.

[00:25:26] Jami Shapiro: Jane sends me a card of her wearing it. Holding me as like a 1-year-old and says, your grandmother made this for me, and now I want you to have it. So what I say to my audience is, if you give something as a gift, it's not like somebody can say, I don't want it. Here's the gift back. I thought that was brilliant.

[00:25:49] Jami Shapiro: And so now people laugh and then they ask me, if I wear the poncho. and I did wear it for sixties, theme party. And then I sent you a picture. Look, I actually wore the poncho. But I love that. I don't know if you intended it to be that way. I mean, 'cause it's hideous and I love my grandmother, but that is ugly.

[00:26:05] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: It was the most beautiful thing I ever received. 

[00:26:09] Jami Shapiro: Well, again, in the sixties when people were wearing it, right? Maybe so. But in 2020 when you sent it to me, not so much. But it is an excellent condition. 

[00:26:20] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: The mothballs. Did not quite get to it, but yes, 

[00:26:23] Jami Shapiro: no, it was very well preserved.

[00:26:25] Jami Shapiro: Another one of my grandmother's many hobbies and habits. So tell me some of the things that you've learned about ADHD that sort of changed the way that you look at yourself. Now, I know you're not an ADHD expert, that's not your area, but you are a person living with ADHD and you are a grandma, so, there's that.

[00:26:41] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Well, I've done a lot of attempting to downsize myself. Attempting. We're still in the processing of it. And, I find it very difficult because every object, every piece of paper has a memory. And so when I sit down to go through these things, I am flooded by memory after memory, and it becomes very difficult.

[00:27:04] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: But I think your question is, a good one about what would you really take, what would be really of value I think is extremely important. You've touched on in your other. Podcast how do you decide what's really of value to you? What's important to keep, what you wanna give your kids?

[00:27:21] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And I guess because I sort of considered myself like a historian and I saved almost everything. Now I have to go through and kind of get rid of stuff, which kind of, is very difficult for me. But I've been informed by my son that, when I'm gone, he'll just torch it all.

[00:27:38] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: So I kind of have to pull a few things that I value and maybe with a little story about why I value them. Because otherwise people are gonna get purple poncho, right? And they're gonna go, what is this? And I remember when I gave it to you and you said, what is this? And I was so crushed. I thought, oh, she's gonna see it and remember how great it was when I received it, But I guess it looks different, different people. 

[00:28:07] Jami Shapiro: Right. I am also a little one of the things that people don't like about people that ADHD is, we don't have a filter. And so typically it comes in my mind and it goes out my mouth and there is no pause. So that's definitely one of the things that in my ADHD coach training, I have been learning about the pause.

[00:28:26] Jami Shapiro: It's been really significant, but would you like me to give you some coaching and some advice around the downsizing right sizing process? I'd love it. Okay. Well, first I'm gonna tell you what I would tell my clients, and that is that it took you. 60, 70 years to accumulate your belongings.

[00:28:43] Jami Shapiro: So don't expect that you're gonna be able to make those decisions in a week. It's not gonna happen. So the first thing that I'm gonna say is break it down into bite-sized manageable pieces. So just 10 minutes a day, 10 minutes a day. Set your timer. And and give yourself rewards, build in rewards.

[00:28:58] Jami Shapiro: Whether you're listening to a great podcast like Grandma has ADHD or a comfort television show that you like. You don't have to really pay attention to it, but it's just on for comfort or just great music that you like 10 minutes a day and the momentum will help. And you wanna start with like the low hanging fruit.

[00:29:15] Jami Shapiro: You don't wanna start with a sentimental. Stuff 'cause you're gonna go, down memory lane. But just start with the easy declutter first, the stuff that really isn't gonna matter. And I think also what I recommend to people is that they do a family show and tell. So what you could do is you could go on Zoom, I know you are.

[00:29:33] Jami Shapiro: Really lucky that you have both of your kids in your area, but you could even go on Zoom and record the stories. And so now, you could say, this was a poncho that my grandmother, Miriam, gave me for my whatever birthday. And, so then at least you've got a memory and you've collected it.

[00:29:49] Jami Shapiro: Because I think for so many people, they want their lives to be remembered. and then the other thing is don't forget that you can photograph things and you don't have to keep it all, and you can save, one or two from a collection. And then you can, give the rest away.

[00:30:03] Jami Shapiro: And another challenge for people with ADHD is that we have a strong sense of justice, of social justice. So we aren't gonna easily throw something in the garbage. I mean, that's going to bother us. We wanna know that it's going to end up in the right hands and that something good is gonna come from it.

[00:30:20] Jami Shapiro: So when who you're giving it to or when you think of, oh, I'm going to give it to this charity. Or to this person who needs it, makes it a lot easier. So those would be some of the big tips that I would give to you. I'm gonna give you other big one if I can. So you and I were talking about my grandmother and I had asked you about the lamp, this famous lamp, and you didn't remember it, but that's okay too 'cause you have ADHD.

[00:30:42] Jami Shapiro: But this was a lamp that my grandmother had bought when I was four years old. And by the way, I was my grandmother's only grandchild. And she always told me that my name was on the bottom of this lamp. Well, she passed away unexpectedly. She had not told my mother and my uncle, and they gave the lamp to another cousin.

[00:31:00] Jami Shapiro: I did fight for that lamp. As you can imagine, I'm a little feisty. I did eventually get that lamp back, but when somebody passes away if you haven't really adequately prepared your family, it can lead to a lot of I can't come up with the word Jane. What's the word? Conflict. 

Conflict. See, there's me 

[00:31:17] Jami Shapiro: dropping words.

[00:31:18] Jami Shapiro: When my aunt on my father's side passed away unexpectedly. I had four cousins and they fought so much over my aunt's things that they ended up dividing up two and two, calling in the police, never speaking again. And I am certain that is not the legacy. So I'm leading with this book, which I love.

[00:31:37] Jami Shapiro: It's called I Am Dead. Now what? Can't see it because by the way, I've got the green screen on, or because I'm recording in my ADHD 17-year-old child's room, and I'm hiding her piles of shit everywhere. 

 I wonder where the piles were.

[00:31:52] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Oh, you told me you were in the room and I was looking at, oh my goodness. That doesn't look. 

[00:31:57] Jami Shapiro: Yeah. SoI have a virtual screen for those of you who aren't watching it on YouTube and it's got a grand piano and it looks like such a calm space. And it is. I'm gonna turn off, I'm gonna be me like I tell people to be.

[00:32:08] Jami Shapiro: And I'm gonna turn off the virtual background so that you can actually see what's really going on in my life. And I'm gonna go with none. And so I am sitting in front of her sofa. And you'll start to see piles Now. She cleaned her room yesterday. We just haven't finished cleaning her room.

[00:32:26] Jami Shapiro: So anyway, that's what's really going on for me. Piles everywhere. Great. But anyway, now I can show you. This is, the book is called, I'm Dead Now. What? And it's to really, really tell your family what's important. it's gonna be, the things, who gets what's important to your ethics and your values, and how you wanna be cared for, what you want to happen to your pets.

[00:32:46] Jami Shapiro: I mean, we wanna avoid these tough conversations, but so much better to just have them and then let them be, let them go, and then just enjoy each other and not have to worry about all of that stuff. 

[00:32:59] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: One of the things that I heard from your other podcast was that I know you have many was, that you also kind of need to look at the will so that kids are not totally shocked and surprised, which I will tell you even as recent as this morning, I was discussing that idea with someone who was actually facing cancer and mortality.

[00:33:17] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And her idea was to, have a real surprise come out in the will. And basically she has two kids and I said, that's gonna really leave them in a rough spot with each other. 'cause that's pretty unequal, 

[00:33:29] Jami Shapiro: so, yes. My best friend from high school, her father has already said, you and your sister are, not getting the same thing.

[00:33:36] Jami Shapiro: And he told her why. And it wasn't because he loved her sister more, it was because he, was concerned more about his sister financial stability and security than he was for my friends. And so, to your point. That leaves them to have that good relationship. I'll give you another great one, and I'm gonna give credit to the person that it's due.

[00:33:56] Jami Shapiro: and it was a Margaret Novak wrote a book called Squint, and it's about re-imagining your life in the, seventies and beyond. And she shared this great story that I now share with my, audience when I do presentations. So I'll give you the story. You tell me what you think, Jane.

[00:34:11] Jami Shapiro: So there were two sisters and they went through their mother's things and for the most part, they agreed on everything. And then they got to two items. They both wanted them. One was a vase and one was a ring. So I always, ask the audience what do you think they did? So I'd love to hear what you think they did.

Hmm. 

[00:34:30] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Well, I have no idea what they did. I mean, the obvious would be one takes one the other, or they swap 'em back and forth every now and again. 

[00:34:38] Jami Shapiro: Ding, ding ding. That's actually what they did. They decided to swap every year. I think it was on New Year's Day. And there are fresh flowers in the vase.

[00:34:46] Jami Shapiro: Now, wouldn't it be great to leave a legacy like that for our children? Like, this is how I want you to handle it. So I think, when we don't have those conversations, that's when, we are setting our family up for trouble. 'cause weddings and funerals bring out the worst in people.

[00:35:01] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Well, they really do. And it's very sad because that's exactly the time when your heirs need to lean on each other and have support and have love and not feel ripped off because if they do feel ripped off, you begin to kind of feel funny like, gosh, I don't even know what to think about this.

[00:35:19] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And it does begin to mess with your self concept a little bit about how much was I loved, 

[00:35:23] Jami Shapiro: terrible stuff. You'll know this as a therapist. I don't, have siblings this way, but that we resort to our family dynamics. Like, oh, you are always the favorite. And, this is the troublemaker.

[00:35:34] Jami Shapiro: And, we sort of assume those roles right. As adults when we're dealing with our aging parents. Yeah. She's nodding her head 

[00:35:43] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Well, I just, agree about all of that I think it's really changed. I think in the past, people did not talk about unpleasant topics.

[00:35:51] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: they referred to cancer as. C word, And death was just like, well, we're not gonna talk about that. even if the person is laying dying, we're not gonna tell them that they're dying, Mm-hmm. And so, the story is being rewritten. and so we really have to decide, what are our values?

[00:36:08] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: How do we wanna do it? Well, how do we wanna leave things, Mm-hmm. And I think that's a really important. Decision making process. But, people, if you have fights at the funeral, it's not gonna be great. It's not gonna be great for the family left behind. 

[00:36:23] Jami Shapiro: I just,think of my Aunt Mickey and I just think of like how devastated she would've been to have seen, her family and what ended up happening to it as a result of not having those conversations, having those decisions.

[00:36:34] Jami Shapiro: So I didn't mean to take it down that path, but like I said, when you have ADHD, you 

[00:36:39] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: wind and wind. It's double grief though because you lose the person who died and then you also lose these relationships that otherwise are extremely important. 

[00:36:49] Jami Shapiro: That reminds me of a conversation. We were having yesterday, Jane, when we were talking about what happened when my grandmother passed away with my mom, and that was that my grandmother died unexpectedly only nine months after my grandfather had passed away and my mother was not prepared to let go of.

[00:37:07] Jami Shapiro: My grandmother and her things, and she ended up bringing everything into her home that we didn't take minus like the real obvious garbage. And then my mother had basically grief hoarding where I'm not gonna say she had hoarding disorder, but she had situational hoarding. We see that happening like a triggering event.

[00:37:27] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I have seen that in my own caseload of people who, are stuck with five sets of China, and it takes up the entire kitchen and it's kind of like, what are you gonna do with it? And it's just, hard to let go of and it feels somewhat like I'm being disloyal if I get rid of my loved one's things.

[00:37:46] Jami Shapiro: And so there's all kinds of trips that we put ourselves on that whole. Thinking process of am what would they want me to do? They would want me to keep it, of course. No, they wouldn't. do you know what Swedish death cleaning is?

[00:37:57] Jami Shapiro: Jane tell 

[00:37:59] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: me. 

[00:38:00] Jami Shapiro: Okay, so Swedish death cleaning is proactively going through your home as if you had passed. And if you've ever gone through a loved one's things and you've had to make those decisions you are going through your own things and you're making those decisions for your family.

[00:38:13] Jami Shapiro: And I actually asked my mom, my mom is in Florida. I'm her only child. And my mom likes her shit. she likes it. And that's been a bone of contention between the two of us. all since I can remember, and I just said, mom, I need you to let me know what's of value, what's significant, what the stories are, 'cause you don't want me to come in and take everything off, to goodwill.

[00:38:33] Jami Shapiro: I think you have two things that happen. You have either. More than that, but you either have the kids that they get the dump truck and like, it's gone. I don't wanna deal with it. Or you have the situations like my mom. So that Swedish death cleaning is an opportunity to go and make those decisions for your loved ones so that they're not grieving and having to let go of things.

[00:38:51] Jami Shapiro: And it's such a gift. And so you can actually find Swedish death cleaning. There are books, there are TV shows, but you will not find this one. Jane, I'm gonna share it with you. Okay. So do you think that if you put a box together of things that meant a lot to you, maybe letters or whatever, that you really didn't want anyone to open, but you aren't ready to discard them, that if you put do not disturb on the box, do you think you might have a family member who would open that box?

[00:39:17] Jami Shapiro: Yes. Okay. Please. I know I would. So you've least got this one. So you wrap a bottle of tequila in the box with a note that says, I did ask you not to open it, but I hope you'll have some fun. 

[00:39:28] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Love it. Love that idea. Love that idea. 

[00:39:31] Jami Shapiro: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:39:32] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: No, I think that's great. 

[00:39:34] Jami Shapiro: I would say the benefit that I have of being in the situation that I'm in, where people, I have seen people have to make the decisions about what they're gonna keep and not keep, and it's agonizing.

[00:39:43] Jami Shapiro: I don't even bring it in anymore, Jane. Like, I go on a vacation and I don't even bring a souvenir because I don't wanna have to say goodbye to it one day. Right. and then just take a picture. 

[00:39:51] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: No, I think that's very correct. And I think that, one of the things that unfortunately having a massive of new material stuff, all of a sudden in your life is that whatever organization you've been able to establish for yourself kind of goes out the window because you had a little organization, but now you have another truckload of stuff on top of it, and it's strangling.

[00:40:14] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I'll give you 

[00:40:15] Jami Shapiro: a little more advice in the process. So it's easier to focus on what you want to keep than to worry about what you're gonna do with what you don't keep. So, one of the things that we do, like, for instance, we'll clear off a dining room table and we'll say, okay, again, we're talking about people who are going to a smaller space and they can't take it all.

[00:40:30] Jami Shapiro: Let's put the things that you know you love on the dining room table. And then that you can be a lot more deliberate about it. So, great idea. focusing on that is another easy way to go. But I always say you wanna start with a low hanging fruit, clothing, books, things that you're not gonna have as much.

[00:40:46] Jami Shapiro: attachment to, unless books are your thing and then that's a whole conversation. But you know, go, go. And then if you've got shoes that are collecting dust. maybe you're not really wearing them and being realistic, what am I really doing? how am I really living?

[00:40:59] Jami Shapiro: Am I really ever going to do this again? And I think part of it is also just grieving, who we may never be again or what we'd hoped for ourselves. I mean, I hold up a pair of size two jeans jokingly and say, seven years ago these jeans fit me. Do you think they feel good? It makes me feel good when I see these jeans hanging in my closet.

[00:41:18] Jami Shapiro: ' cause I'll never fit into that again. 

[00:41:21] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Good point. Good point. You need to come here. One 

[00:41:24] Jami Shapiro: of my presentations, Jane. 

[00:41:26] Jami Shapiro: Just hop on a plane and come to San Diego. 

[00:41:29] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Absolutely. I would love to. Well, I think that organization is really, top priority in terms of having ADHD? I do know where my purse is at all times because there's one chair where it lives in the house. Nice. Otherwise, I'd spend 30 minutes trying to get outta the house, which I know what that feels like, and that's not a pleasant experience. So I think that a lot of it is understanding how we think and what we need individually to be able to cope with the stuff.

[00:42:00] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: To know where our things are, what we can do to facilitate ourselves whether that's breaking things down or looking for the low hanging fruit or, whatever it is that we use to do some sort of organizational process within ourselves. But I think that's really important.

[00:42:16] Jami Shapiro: Any other parting words that you want to leave our listeners with before we say goodbye on this podcast? 'cause it's not goodbye for us. It's just Goodbye for this podcast. 

[00:42:26] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Right. I think that one of the things that stands out to me is this whole idea about, inheriting these traits and inheriting, ADHD and or ADD and very often, like myself, the first time I really understood ADHD was in the context of my son being diagnosed ADHD, but then being faced with the issue of, okay, which one of us has it.

[00:42:51] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And is it both? Where not only do we have to accept, our child, but also accept ourselves. 

[00:42:59] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: We can kind of look back at generations like you and I have been doing at Mothers and Grandmothers, and we can see certain, attributes and I must say that, there are so many good attributes about having ADHD For me, it's a very energetic experience.

[00:43:13] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I feel very, like I kind of like told I'm the ever ready bunny and I'm just always moving around and doing stuff and that's good. that feels good to me. So I know that there are certain aspects of ADHD that I would never give up and okay. 

[00:43:29] Jami Shapiro: So that begs the question that I like to ask, I like to end the podcast with.

[00:43:33] Jami Shapiro: If you could press a magic button that would make, make your ADHD go away, which is all of the good and all of the bad, would you push the button? 

[00:43:41] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I would have a really hard time because you have to break it down into ideas. like reading? No, no, no. What? I would like to have better comprehension.

[00:43:51] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I would like to be able to read faster. I understand. I probably at this point in my life, I would say no. ADHD has been really great for me, but it wasn't great growing up. Yes. And it wasn't great, coping with the challenges that it presented to me wasn't great.

[00:44:12] Jami Shapiro: That seems to be consistent. A lot of people would've opted to to press that button younger. But I agree. I love the energy level that I have as a 55-year-old woman. And I think the curiosity, the natural curiosity is going to help us age a lot better because we're constantly learning and, wanting to improve.

[00:44:29] Jami Shapiro: And any other parting thoughts? One of the things that I always say is like, I get off the phone and I'm like, Ugh, I should have said that. Is there any of those, oh, I should have said that. 

[00:44:39] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I just wanted to share a little story, and that this year I learned how to play Mahjong. Now it turns out that there are, you have cards, which, you try to make a certain, 

[00:44:47] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Homage in your hand, you wanna have a certain pattern. So the basis of Mahjong is that there are patterns of numbers. Now, as I look through them, when I try to break it down and have it make sense in my brain, I actually write down every possible pattern I might be looking for. And some of them I know, I'll never find that one.

[00:45:11] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: This I could do, I'll never find these because you become aware even very quickly as you look at something as to whether it's overwhelming and you can do it whether it makes sense to you so that you could do it. So I think that, we all have these ways of learning and ways of not.

[00:45:29] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Getting overwhelmed, and I think we really have to respect that about ourselves and really look into it even further to understand, what we can do to function best. 

 

[00:45:39] Jami Shapiro: Yeah. I think you're a hundred. I mean, again, we have to learn. How we work. We have to learn how our partners work and what they need.

[00:45:46] Jami Shapiro: And anyway, I know that you are backed up with clients that you can't even handle your caseload. Otherwise, I would tell people to find you as a therapist. But I will put a plugin for your book, keeping Love Alive, which can be found on Amazon. And we're gonna put a link to it in the show notes so that you can find it.

[00:46:04] Jami Shapiro: I appreciate all of you who indulged me. Like I said, this was super fun to have my cousin Jane, who was one of my absolute favorite cousins and just everybody should have a cousin Jane. She was definitely the voice of reason. I called her when I was going through divorce issues. I've called her with.

[00:46:20] Jami Shapiro: Family issues. like I said, I don't remember a life when there wasn't cousin Jane in it. So, and then when I discovered that she also had ADHD it was amazing. Anyway, I hope that for those of you who listened to the podcast, you liked it or hope you loved it, I hope you will share it with your friends and family and join our growing grandma has ADHD community because we really thrive.

[00:46:43] Jami Shapiro: Community when we realize that we are not alone and we are not disordered, we are wired differently. So anything else you wanna say, 

[00:46:51] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Jane? I love it. I really love that you're talking about this and that we're all trying to figure it out together. 

[00:46:59] Jami Shapiro: Yeah. Well I appreciate it and please give Gary and all of the kids and the zoo big hugs for me and thank you so much for finally coming saying yes.

[00:47:08] Jami Shapiro: I appreciate it. So, again, we're just trying to give you the information so that you can make the rest of your life the best of your life. Thanks so much for listening. 

[00:47:17] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Thank you.

 

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