Episode 46 - Chaos and Caffeine (Can ADHD Awareness Break Generational Trauma?)

In this powerful and deeply personal episode, Jami sits down with fellow ADHD podcaster and mom, Danielle Kelly, host of Chaos and Caffeine. Together, they explore how ADHD affects not just the individual—but entire family systems.

Danielle shares what it was like growing up with two undiagnosed ADHD parents and how that shaped her own emotional world. From walking on eggshells to discovering her diagnosis while parenting her son, Danielle brings honesty, humor, and healing to the conversation.

Jami reflects on her own parenting journey before and after her diagnosis—offering insight, validation, and a few laugh-out-loud moments along the way.

Whether you’re an adult child trying to understand your upbringing, a parent learning to do things differently, or someone just beginning to connect the dots—this episode is for you.

Thank you for joining us for this episode of Grandma Has ADHD! We hope Jami's journey and insights into ADHD shed light on the unique challenges faced by older adults. Stay tuned for more episodes where we’ll explore helpful resources, share personal stories, and provide guidance for those navigating ADHD. Don’t forget to subscribe and share this podcast with friends who might benefit. Remember, Make the rest of your life the best of your life.

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Transcript

Have you ever thought, is this just me? When struggling to stay organized, start tasks, or manage time, for those of us over 50, these challenges might not be just aging. They could be ADHD hiding in plain sight for decades. I'm Jami Shapiro, host of Grandma has ADHD, and I'm building a community where your experiences matter.

Whether you are diagnosed, questioning or simply curious. You are not alone. Our Facebook group is filled with vibrant understanding. People over 50 who share their stories, strategies, and yes, even their struggles with plenty of laughter along the way. Ready to find your people. Join our growing grandma has ADHD Facebook community.

Please like and subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and share it with someone who might need to hear. They're not alone because ADHD doesn't have an age limit and neither does understanding yourself better. Together, we're changing the conversation about ADHD after 50 come be part of the story.

[00:01:29] Jami Shapiro: Hi, and welcome to the Grandma has ADHD podcast. I always say that I am excited when I interview people, but today really, really, I am excited because I actually had the opportunity to be on Danielle Kelly's podcast. Chaos and caffeine a couple of months ago. And Danielle, I have to tell you, and I'm being a hundred percent honest, your interview is one of the most fun interviews I've ever had.

[00:01:56] Jami Shapiro: Like, I could literally see us sitting and having coffee and enjoying each other. And she was wonderful To invite me to come on and talk about neurodiversity in seniors because Danielle's audience is parents with children. She herself has ADHD and is raising an ADHD child, I believe is one.

[00:02:15] Jami Shapiro: Right? And so I'll let her tell her story because my memory is a sieve. As, anyone with ADHD knows, I remember sitting in my car and talking to you and, we totally went down the woowoo path, but I can't remember how many kids you have. But just for the occasion, I have my coffee in hand and it's not fake.

[00:02:33] Jami Shapiro: There's coffee in there. And it says, mama needs some coffee. Always. So, Danielle, thank you. and I wanna just say this, the reason that I wanted to invite Danielle onto the podcast is like me, she also has realized that she was raised by a Neurodiverse parent So I'm gonna let you share your story.

[00:02:52] Jami Shapiro: So welcome to my podcast. 

[00:02:55] Danielle Kelly: Thank you so much. That was a lovely introduction and I also enjoyed our very casual woowoo conversation. 

[00:03:03] Jami Shapiro: It was great. And I have to say this, I did not expect it. When you hear Danielle, you can clearly tell that she is, living in the South and, having grown up in the Bible belt, I just assumed that you are gonna be, a very, Southern Baptist, that accent screamed Southern Baptist.

[00:03:18] Jami Shapiro: But that was absolutely not the case. And we totally had a spiritual connection. I loved it. But, okay, so that out of the way. Give me your journey. How did you get to where you are? Tell me a little bit about how you discovered your ADHD, and then of course we'll talk about the podcast and then I wanna talk about, your parents and all of that.

[00:03:37] Jami Shapiro: So a lot to cover. 

[00:03:40] Danielle Kelly: The funny thing is, throughout my life I thought that everyone else had ADHD, and I was neurotypical. And when I was around 35 and I started filling out my son's paperwork, I was like, oh man, I definitely have inattentive ADHD. And so my journey kind of starts backwards. I started with positive parenting, which made ADHD parenting much easier than normal, we'll say.

[00:04:14] Danielle Kelly: By the time we got the diagnosis, I was kind of not blown away. We had just found our rhythm and the only trouble that we were experiencing with school. And so after years of learning and taking in as much as I could, I had started an ADHD parenting group. And then we started having these amazing workshops with guest speakers and I thought.

[00:04:38] Danielle Kelly: I'm what's it called? Gatekeeping, these people from the world. They need to be on a larger platform where everyone can soak up this ADHD parenting knowledge. So that's where the podcast came from. 

[00:04:49] Jami Shapiro: Nice. Okay, so you grew up thinking that everybody was thinking like you. When did you realize that that wasn't the case?

[00:05:00] Danielle Kelly: I honestly, as I said in when you came on my podcast, I had a spiritual awakening in 2021, and I started meditating and working on me, and I think when you sit down to meditate that first time and your brain is going a hundred miles a minute in all different directions, it's kind of like, oh, I can't sit here and focus on my breath because I'm thinking about.

[00:05:25] Danielle Kelly: About the weather, the news, what I need to do in 10 minutes, how long is this gonna last? you go through all the things and then it just kind of dawned on me, I got in trouble online school for daydreaming not being on task, and it all just made sense in my late thirties. 

[00:05:41] Jami Shapiro: Okay. So what would you say the rest of your childhood looks like now that you know the difference between neurotypical and and neurodiverse?

[00:05:53] Danielle Kelly: thing that sticks out is the anxiety that comes with a brain that won't turn off Uhhuh. I remember distinctly all of the worrying, as a kid about losing elders and things that were really far in the future, but I was worried about them constantly at a young age. And then, like I said, the daydreaming, getting in trouble for doodling in class and not being in the actual lecture, for sure.

[00:06:23] Danielle Kelly: And now that I'm 40, I can say it out loud, trouble keeping and maintaining friendships, that is still a struggle that I'm working on currently. 

[00:06:35] Jami Shapiro: Okay. So maintaining friendships, let's dive into that. So would you say it's because you forget to follow up and make plans and so then friendships fall away?

[00:06:45] Jami Shapiro: Yeah. You're nodding your head yes. For sure for me, and I am the person that I say whatever's on my mind and some people cannot handle that. And so what I have discovered is the people in my life, for the most part, have been in my life. some since middle school because they know what you see is what you get.

[00:07:06] Jami Shapiro: And, there are definitely people where I am not their flavor. And now at least I have an understanding of why. 

[00:07:13] Danielle Kelly: Yeah, for sure. Definitely falling off and not keeping in touch, getting distracted by something shiny and I'm off to the next thing. But yes, for sure learning that my impulsive.

[00:07:27] Danielle Kelly: mouth, as you said. I say things that come in here and then they pop out here. And for so long I thought, well, that's how I want people to treat me. I want people to be blunt and upfront and honest with me, so that must be how everyone else wants to be treated. Turns out it is not, and I quote sticks out to me about that a lot.

[00:07:48] Danielle Kelly: Treat people how they wanna be treated and not how you wanna be treated was kind of a pivotal turning point for me on that. 

[00:07:55] Jami Shapiro: Yeah. Meditation. So would you say that you've gotten better? You know what, I'm so impressed and it keeps coming up for me. Meditation. Meditation. And I'll be honest with you, I say I'm gonna do it and I, obviouslyhave tried, it's torture for me.

[00:08:11] Jami Shapiro: It's like the big joke. I was in a entrepreneur group and they wanted. Start with a daily meditation whenever we would get together. And I'd be like, can we not? Or can we keep it like short? 'cause I mean, let's do 10 minutes. I'm like, I can't do 10 minutes. I wanted to share, you were speaking about the friendship thing.

[00:08:29] Jami Shapiro: Have you read Mel Robins book? Let Them Yet? 

[00:08:33] Danielle Kelly: I have not, but I'm an avid listener of her podcast, so I have heard that over and over and yes, I adore her in general. 

[00:08:41] Jami Shapiro: So she shares and she has ADHD as well. She shares in her book that she, was sitting down and sees on social media that her friend group from when they raised kids together, had all gone on a girls trip.

[00:08:57] Jami Shapiro: And she looks at the pictures and she sees all of the people in the trip and she's hurt as any of us would be to think I've been left out of, and then she steps back from it, 'cause she's bringing in this theory and she's like, but I haven't followed up with these friendships.

[00:09:11] Jami Shapiro: I haven't stayed in touch with them. so this isn't about me. And when it's kind of like, just like with ADHD. Out of sight, out of mind. And if you're not making your friends a priority, they aren't gonna move on. And it's not a reflection of who you are, it's just outta sight out of mind.

[00:09:28] Jami Shapiro: Yeah. So, okay, so the friendship struggle, and I am sure you're aware that social anxiety is the biggest co-occurrence with ADHD. 

[00:09:35] Danielle Kelly: Mm-hmm. Did 

[00:09:37] Jami Shapiro: you know that? 

[00:09:38] Danielle Kelly: I did not know that. But it makes total sense.

[00:09:44] Danielle Kelly: Even my son.

[00:09:45] Jami Shapiro: Go ahead. Even my son, I think about this often, like today he's in summer camp. He's been going for two weeks. He has an absolute blast once he's there. But the anxiety about going is too much. Even for the park or the trampoline park or birthday parties.

[00:10:05] Danielle Kelly: I'm like, if I can just get him there, he's going to have the time of his life. But he's like, mom, you know what, if I don't have fun, or what if they don't like me? Or all of those things, and I'm watching it with him at 10, and I'm glad to have a little bit more coping skills and a little bit more knowledge to pour into him.

[00:10:23] Danielle Kelly: But it starts at a really, really young age. 

[00:10:27] Jami Shapiro: Do you know? So I didn't realize that I had it until I listened to the book Small Talk by Roxanne Pink and Richard, her husband. And, I don't remember what her story was, but I looked back at my childhood and I remember now giving my toys away to friends because I wanted them to like me, and I thought if I gave them my toys then they would like me and I was actually the reason that I was.

[00:10:52] Jami Shapiro: Kind of late to our podcast. I hike on Tuesday mornings with a good friend of mine. We've raised our kids together since kindergarten and she was telling me that one of her kids had charged $500 on Uber Eats and that she was sure. she's gonna have to pay it back. But she said she was sure that, she had been purchasing food for her friends.

[00:11:13] Jami Shapiro: And that reminded me of, me giving away my toys and I'm like, 'cause her daughter has ADHD as well, Yeah. And I just sort of said, Hey, it's probably what she's doing. And there's just, I don't know, even from a young age, so it's not even trauma. but just this, I'm worried people aren't gonna like me.

[00:11:31] Jami Shapiro: It's a hard part. 

[00:11:33] Danielle Kelly: It's really sad for my kid to see that. I think it comes from that feeling that he is already experiencing of I'm too much, like I'm too impulsive, or I'm too hyperactive, or I'm too this. And so he's already starting to try to.

[00:11:50] Danielle Kelly: Well, he's already internalizing that.

[00:11:55] Jami Shapiro: I do feel like we are magnified. I feel like, when I describe it, 'cause I definitely resonate with the too much statement is I think a lot of people who have ADHD, that feels it. And it's just nothing slow. Like, it might not be that our bodies move. 'cause I actually am combined type, but a lot of my guests are inattentive, especially, women tend to be more inattentive.

[00:12:15] Jami Shapiro: So they're not hyperactive. You don't see the fidgeting going on all the time, but their brains are just so. Fast and then, you have so much to say and so much to do and there's so much energy. So yeah, I hate that. I hate that. and that's one of the reasons I think that both of us are probably, out in this ADHD space to say, Hey, this is how we were made.

[00:12:36] Jami Shapiro: This is who we were meant to be, and let's channel, this energy into something that's, gonna really benefit the world. 

[00:12:44] Danielle Kelly: Yes. 

[00:12:45] Jami Shapiro: Would you agree? 

[00:12:46] Danielle Kelly: I definitely agree. Awesome. Okay, 

[00:12:50] Jami Shapiro: so I definitely wanna touch on, being raised by ADHD parents and, how, do they know that you think they have ADHD like all of that stuff.

[00:12:57] Jami Shapiro: But before we move on to that, finally have that big smile. If you're listening, she just like, lit up with that big smile. Seeing us on YouTube, which, and I wanna say this, I'm gonna just defend my situation with the background so that you know what's going on. I have the worst wifi in this house, and we have tried to fix it with boosters.

[00:13:16] Jami Shapiro: it's an older house and it wasn't made, when the time that we were thinking about wifi. So the only place in my home that is quiet that I also get decent wifi is in my 17-year-old daughter's room who happens to have ADHD So I have to put a background up because, that's definitely, I do have a beautiful setting in my office that I would love to be using for these podcasts, but I can't get a good enough signal.

[00:13:43] Jami Shapiro: So if you are seeing me, you're seeing this like, virtual background behind me. But that's a problem I've gotta solve. And, when we have ADHD, that's so many tasks that I have to do, I have to like. Figure out how to get the wifi and then I have to get the right, backdrop.

[00:13:58] Jami Shapiro: So that, and then what happens is perfect is the enemy of done. And so then we just won't do anything because if it's not, we're worried that people are gonna judge us. So I've been very open about, I'm gonna be me, so you can be you. So I just wanted to kind of. Give you that space.

[00:14:15] Jami Shapiro: So, okay. So anything that you want to share before we move on to what it was like for you to be raised by ADHD parents and how that's all gone in that conversation? 

[00:14:28] Danielle Kelly: We may need to save the last 40 minutes for that entire conversation. I'm not sure 40 minutes would be enough to even I will say this is my very first podcast interview on someone else's podcast, and for sure my first and only video podcast interview.

[00:14:45] Danielle Kelly: So no judgment at all. 

[00:14:48] Jami Shapiro: Well, you're beautiful. You're absolutely beautiful. So thank you so much. Do you mean no judgment of my background? Is that what you were saying? No 

[00:14:55] Danielle Kelly: judgment of anything. Yeah. At all. 

[00:14:58] Jami Shapiro: Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it. Okay, so we're gonna take a pause and then we come back. Danielle's gonna share her experience of being raised by an ADHD parent and how all of that conversation is going.

[00:15:11] Jami Shapiro: So just stay with us and if you are enjoying this podcast, please like it, it helps to build the audience, share it and subscribe to it. It's Grandma has ADHD, and you know, I am doing everything. That I can to get the message out that, people 50 over should not be left out of the ADHD conversation and we are not broken.

[00:15:35] Jami Shapiro: We are not too much. This is the way we were made to be and I want to help you embrace that. So, alright.

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[00:18:24] Jami Shapiro: And we are back with Danielle Kelly. She is the podcast host of chaos and caffeine. She is an ADHDer herself. She's raising a 10-year-old son with ADHD. But I invited her onto this podcast because you have one or two parent, I think you said two parents with ADHD

[00:18:41] Jami Shapiro: Didn't you 

[00:18:42] Danielle Kelly: both? Yes. 

[00:18:43] Jami Shapiro: Yes. She's nodding. You can't because some people will be listening on. No, no, that's okay. she shared, not used to doing the YouTube. She's used to just doing it by voice. So I also forgot to turn on my Do Not Disturb. So, there's that squirrel.

[00:19:00] Jami Shapiro: So I'm gonna turn that on. here's a reel in the real world. Okay, so two parents with ADHD, and, has Danielle nodded her head Yes. And that was also my experience. So I was so excited because I've had people who have a parent with ADHD, but not people who've had both parents.

[00:19:15] Jami Shapiro: So take me back to your childhood and then first of all, do your parents, I think they must know that they have ADHD at this point, given that you're hosting a podcast. 

[00:19:23] Danielle Kelly: I was very surprised. My mom did not find out until she started watching my TikTok content and realized that everything I was saying applied to her.

[00:19:32] Danielle Kelly: So she learned very recently. When I was talking to my dad about my son, he said something that let me know that he knew that he had ADHD. And he said something to the effect of where do you think he gets it from? And I was thinking, what does he mean? And we were at his shop at the time, he owns a car dealership with an attached garage, and he was like, look around.

[00:19:59] Danielle Kelly: He was like, have you ever seen a. Garage this clean, this organized. He's like, OCD is part of ADHD. And that was eyeopening for me because he had never mentioned that he had it. He had never brought it up. But reflecting on it all in the nineties, I'm assuming they were stressed out parents, but He also. To me, looking back on it as a 40-year-old, I can see he was very emotionally dysregulated. 

[00:20:33] Jami Shapiro: The 

[00:20:34] Danielle Kelly: smallest thing could send our day in a different way. And now, I have the terminology and the awareness of what that is, but to a smaller child, it's like dad's having a moment. And my mom, that's the walking on eggshell.

[00:20:53] Jami Shapiro: Yes, which could be part of my anxiety, and that's just it. you can see the trauma, the family. how we pass that down because yes, you were emotionally dysregulated. You're emotionally dysregulated by nature, but then you were also raised in an environment.

[00:21:09] Jami Shapiro: With emotional dysregulation, and then of course we pass it so you're stopping the cycle and so kudos. He's lucky to have, that. And I've said that to my 17-year-old because she's the only child that I have raised since understanding my own ADHD.

[00:21:27] Jami Shapiro: And it's just been, eye opening as a parent to see so much of her behavior. That was my behavior. 

[00:21:35] Danielle Kelly: Yeah. 

[00:21:36] Jami Shapiro: So anyway, there I am going off on my tangent. Okay. So your father was OCD and your mother was scattered. Scattered. Yes. And so did she miss appointments? And, what was it like being raised by a mom with ADHD?

[00:21:53] Danielle Kelly: I hope that she's not watching this, but.

[00:21:59] Danielle Kelly: Up until she recognized that she had ADHD and started treatment, it's like she could never get it together. Her life is just, a chaotic ocean, and she's just now finding her life boat. 

[00:22:14] Jami Shapiro: I've actually used those words when I was raising three children at home. Before I knew I had ADHD and I was married and I was missing parent-teacher conferences and my house wasn't running in an orderly way.

[00:22:25] Jami Shapiro: And I remember using the words, I can't seem to get it together. So I actually hope your mom is listening And I'll tell you why, because I think that there's a lot of our mothers and our fathers, especially our mothers, because the responsibility of running a household, tended to fall on them.

[00:22:42] Jami Shapiro: And, they're probably carrying the shame and I just didn't do a good job. I know my mom definitely has it. And so I think when they understand. And like, there was nothing that you really could have done. It's like, until you have the tools and you have an understanding, so stop blaming yourself and when you know better, you do better to quote Maya Angelou.

[00:23:04] Jami Shapiro: And so let's go from here and let's learn what we can and let's try to repair and heal the the broken relationships and the disappointments and I have a mom that is open to that and I have a father that, doesn't wanna confront anything. So anyway, I think it's important that, when, when we share that, 'cause there are a lot of people like listening and what I've noticed about ADHD, and you probably see this too, you see kind of both ends of the spectrum.

[00:23:29] Jami Shapiro: You see people who have like over. Achieved and accomplished so much. And they've had a, a billion degrees and a billion careers, and they just go, go, go, go, go. And their hyperactivity is almost their determination to achieve. And then people like my mom, who's brilliant, but couldn't focus on her books and couldn't finish, school and just went from job to job And, I hate to use the expression lived up to her potential, but I think that you see those people as well, and, all of us are coming to terms with the impact that ADHD, especially undiagnosed had on our entire life. 

[00:24:04] Danielle Kelly: Yeah, for sure. I do hope that she listens and I hope that she understands that I'm 40 now and I can extend so much grace, but I don't wanna hurt her feelings in the sense that.

[00:24:17] Danielle Kelly: I don't want her to feel like that is how I see her, but that is kind of how I have seen her for 58 years before the diagnosis and the treatment. 

[00:24:28] Jami Shapiro: So it's interesting because I've asked my kids and I need that validation. What is it that you liked about being raised by me And they're like, you were fun.

[00:24:37] Jami Shapiro: I might not have been at your parent teacher conference, but I was funny and fun and so what would you say you liked about your mom and now realizing that that could have been attributed to her? ADHD. 

[00:24:48] Danielle Kelly: I love so much about her. She is very kind to the planet, to animals, to children, and you are right.

[00:24:55] Danielle Kelly: She does have that really hyperactive fun component that my son adores. They get along so well. They have so much fun, and their energy levels are pretty on par. 

[00:25:07] Jami Shapiro: You know what? I will say that has been a blessing of the hyperactivity as I'm aging. So my father is hyperactive and my mother is inattentive, and I am combined.

[00:25:17] Jami Shapiro: Which I think is so funny. And my father's energy level, he's 80. I mean, the man can run circles around me and I'm 55 and my boyfriend is nine years younger and he can't keep up with me. And I remember my ex-husband, we were the same age, and, I'd get up and hit the door and I'd go, go, go, go, go.

[00:25:34] Jami Shapiro: And it always frustrated me because he just needed. The downtime and I'm just, and again, I didn't know I had ADHD until I was actually separated, which is unfortunate, but I just couldn't understand why he couldn't keep up with me. 

[00:25:46] Danielle Kelly: Yeah. That is actually my son's dynamic. I'm inattentive, my co-parent is hyperactive and impulsive for sure.

[00:25:56] Danielle Kelly: And then my son kind of got the best and or worst parts of both the bus.

[00:26:04] Jami Shapiro: there, that is a best and a worst part. So I always ask my guests, probably in the last 10 episodes or so Penn Holderness, who was the keynote speaker at the International ADHD conference used the, the example or whatever, that he was asked if he could press a button and be done with his ADHD and not have had it, would he press the button?

[00:26:26] Jami Shapiro: What would your answer be?

[00:26:34] Danielle Kelly: 50 50 only because of the anxiety that comes with the race in mind. But the other part of that is my ADHD allows me to think very quickly on my feet to come out of possibly catastrophic situations with a creative solution in a matter of seconds. When I was a teenager, my friends attributed that to us, getting out of some very sticky situations as rebellious teens.

[00:27:02] Danielle Kelly: My brain can come up with a way to fix the solution or to fix the problem, and so I'm not sure if those two weigh each other out, but those would be my pros and cons of to press it or not. 

[00:27:17] Jami Shapiro: And there is a typical ADHD answer. There is no yes or no. You have to have all of the, so, I will share with you, speaking of anxiety, I don't like it and I'm gonna be like, I can't believe I'm gonna say this online, but again, I think it helps people to relate.

[00:27:31] Jami Shapiro: So my three children as we're recording this on an Alaskan cruise with their father and, I know they are supposed to take a helicopter ride and I just said to him, I really don't want you taking all three of my kids in a helicopter. 'cause my anxiety is really high about that.

[00:27:47] Jami Shapiro: And so, I understand the anxiety. I did say,just text me when it's done. because I can't control what he does. We sort of have the. My house, my rules divorce. we co-parent well. But speaking of anxiety, I have these thoughts that you're like, I don't wanna think this, but it happens regularly.

[00:28:06] Jami Shapiro: Like, I catastrophize situations. I put things into my brain that I get The anxiety is definitely not fun. and Danielle, for those of you who are listening, is nodding her head. You get where? Aggressively nodding. That's 

[00:28:21] Danielle Kelly: also something that I did not learn about me until I started doing the work is rumination.

[00:28:28] Jami Shapiro: I spent probably the first 30 years of my life in my head having pretend arguments or conversations that never came to fruition. Not even close. I know, and you know what when I look back on those situations where I worried about the outcome or how something was gonna go it never ended up being what I worried about.

[00:28:49] Jami Shapiro: And I really want to stop worrying, right? And I try to remember those examples, when did I worry about it? And I come up with all of these horrible scenarios and didn't go that way at all. So I'm trying, but it's a work in progress for sure. Do you have any tips for anybody listening, like how they can sort of stop that rumination cycle? 

[00:29:07] Danielle Kelly: So I want to give a very big caveat to all of this. All of my friends have seen me put in five years of intensive self-work, and I have learned so much, but I was a. Large case, and the universe knew that I was going to need some divine intervention.

[00:29:26] Danielle Kelly: So she shortcut my program and gave me my spiritual awakening, which helped me so much. But one thing that I can tell you is it sounds so woo woo, but it's the gratitude journal for me in a sense that whatever I'm struggling with that day, like one of my biggest things is I'm not considered.

[00:29:49] Danielle Kelly: So if I take my gratitude journal that day and write down three ways that I'm grateful that I was considered, it kind of builds on that momentum of, girl, your mind is playing tricks on you. You are loved, you are seen. Nothing is going the way that you're pretending that it is up there. So let that go.

[00:30:09] Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. You know, there was a great book that I read called You Are A Badass by Jen Sincero. And so you read it and there's an example that she gives, and I can't remember what the terminology is, but I can share the example. you're reading the book and she says I want you to take the next minute and count everything that you see that's yellow.

[00:30:30] Jami Shapiro: And so you take a minute off the book and you to count everything that You see that's yellow. And then she says, okay, now how many red things did you see? Right? And it's 'cause when you're focusing on something, that is what you see. And so it's really, really helpful to when you're looking for things to be grateful for, it's where I'm going with this.

[00:30:49] Jami Shapiro: Then you're gonna start to look for, so I have at times. In the gratitude journal where I write the three things at the end of the day that happened that I was grateful for. And then you spend more time focusing on what you can write in your journal and you see more things to be grateful for.

[00:31:06] Danielle Kelly: Yeah. Yeah. Two things. One from her book, the one thing that I remember is her saying. That the universe must be out there thinking I gave them everything that they could have ever wanted. Fresh water, trees, hummingbirds, mountains, and they still sit around and worry that they're not enough. That has stuck with me for the last five years since reading that book.

[00:31:30] Danielle Kelly: And so here's another thing I struggle with totally off topic. ADHD moment. I struggle with living in scarcity, even though that is not my reality. So each day I write down three ways that the universe has shown up for me, that I have forgotten about or that I'm grateful for. And then it's like I've built this whole catalog of ways that I'm not living in scarcity, that everything I've asked for has been given and so much more.

[00:31:58] Danielle Kelly: And it's just you build on that.

[00:32:03] Jami Shapiro: So I share that with you. I also struggle with that, and I don't know if it's related to ADHD or the other thing that I have noticed about a lot of people with ADHD is that a lot of people with ADHD, especially women the way that it can express is impulsive spending. Not having a future orientation.

[00:32:21] Jami Shapiro: And so I remember growing up thinking, there wasn't enough money. partly because it was my lived experience. I had those moments where I knew my mom did not have enough. and I remember the shopping, and that was a battle that we had, She kept bringing stuff in and then she'd even say, look, I went to a garage sale.

[00:32:38] Jami Shapiro: I'm like, but you, you didn't need it.

[00:32:40] Danielle Kelly: Yeah. 

[00:32:41] Jami Shapiro: And I will also say one thing that helped me, another Jensen chair, hopefully she's listening, she'll come be on the podcast. She talks about using thinking of money as an exchange of energy, which I found to be super helpful. So now I think of, When I am gonna give a tip or I'm going to spend something that I maybe wouldn't have wanted to spend on my kids or on an experience, I think of it is an exchange of energy. And a really good example, I don't know if you remember, during COVID no one wanted to use cash. So all of a sudden that cash that sitting on had no value.

[00:33:14] Jami Shapiro: Right? It was just a piece of paper. So. I really like that, but I struggle with that scarcity mindset and, I did just touch on something that I always like to interweave little things in these conversations. The way that I've learned that hyper that inattentive or ADHD can show up.

[00:33:32] Jami Shapiro: For anybody who has inattentive ADHD, but it's impulsive spending and it's poor eating choices or sugar cravings or, binge eating. So, I always like to weave those facts in. It seems to be pretty consistent with just about everybody that I know on the older side who didn't know that they had it.

[00:33:49] Jami Shapiro: you can see those patterns, so, yeah. what would you tell an adult child? I know you're used to being the parent, giving the parenting advice, but what would you tell an adult child who is realizing that they were raised by an ADHD parent about maybe repairing the disappointment or, soothing those parents?

[00:34:11] Danielle Kelly: I 

[00:34:11] Jami Shapiro: mean, what would your advice be? 

[00:34:15] Danielle Kelly: Again, the universe gifted me a major shortcut. But I think that internally, before you even approach those conversations, I would see if the things that hurt you the most, or because of ADHD, maybe they didn't know that they had ADHD. Maybe the not showing up to parent teacher conferences was a sticking point.

[00:34:41] Danielle Kelly: And then you realize, oh, my mom has time blindness, so she doesn't know the time or what's going on or anything like that. Or like my dad. My dad had three daughters. he wasn't the sole provider, but he was the majority provider, so he was stressed out all the time. And then of course that caused a little bit of emotional dysregulation, but then.

[00:35:03] Danielle Kelly: On top of the ADHD, the explosive. I used to say that my dad would go off on the smallest thing, but it was really, now that I'm 40, I can recognize that was just the tipping point. Everything that happened that day or that week or the things that I didn't see led to that explosion, but it could have been over something like I remember rocks being on the roof when we were little.

[00:35:26] Danielle Kelly: And he was like, who threw the rocks on the roof? And I'm like, dad, I dunno, you know? But I laugh over that because he literally had a meltdown over the rocks on the roof. And it's just maybe internally recognizing the things that hurt you if they were part of their ADHD, and then addressing that and giving them a chance to know it and know how you feel and responding.

[00:35:54] Jami Shapiro: That's great. That's super helpful. Anything else that you want to share keeping in mind that a lot of the people who are listening are probably, grandparents who are now seeing their ADHD grandchildren and maybe watching their parent, their children parent, these ADHD kids.

[00:36:13] Jami Shapiro: What's your advice? 

[00:36:16] Danielle Kelly: Ooh, this is so good because I actually just had a conversation with my dad on Father's Day that I will share. My dad is old school, and even though he knows he has ADHD, sometimes he doesn't recognize that in his grandchildren. And he said something like, a spanking isn't going to hurt anyone.

[00:36:36] Danielle Kelly: And I thought, okay, but also Is there another way? for my son, when he was a toddler, I'm not ashamed to say I did, pop his hand and it just didn't work, so, I had to find other means. So I would just invite any grandparents out there neurotypical or not to just give their children a chance to parent differently for what works today, that may or may not have worked way back in the day.

[00:37:10] Jami Shapiro: Do you think that one of the reasons that they are, passing judgment or commenting is maybe their own feelings of inadequacy, like, they're doing it differently because they don't like the way they were raised?

[00:37:23] Danielle Kelly: You would have to ask him that question, but I do think a lot of it comes from.

[00:37:30] Danielle Kelly: Not just grandparents. I think that a lot of our parenting or decisions or shame comes from what will people think of me? maybe my dad thinks what will people think of us if we go to a restaurant and my grandson's on his iPad, but it's not like. He doesn't bother me because unless he's on that iPad, I can't get him to sit at the table with us because his brain and his body's spinning.

[00:37:56] Danielle Kelly: So that's just one tiny reflection, but I think it's just more so how we believe we will be perceived. 

[00:38:04] Jami Shapiro: Okay. I'm gonna sit at that.

[00:38:09] Jami Shapiro: Any parting words or advice to somebody who's listening? Who again, I'm really trying to gear it to, I'm just coming into this ADHD conversation. my grandchild was diagnosed, now my child is realizing they have it, and now they're sending me this podcast because they want me to hear it and I am just this what would your advice be to them?

[00:38:37] Danielle Kelly: I think to learn what ADHD is and what ADHD is not. I think that we are still on a very outdated conception of ADHD, just hyperactive little boys. When ADHD is, emotional dysregulation, time blindness, organizational skills. So much. There's so much in there. I think there's like eight or nine executive functions that it affects.

[00:39:05] Danielle Kelly: So the moving away from boys will be boys and coming into this is an actual issue and this is what we need to work on. 

[00:39:16] Jami Shapiro: I think that's a great answer. I will share with you that, because I just completed my ADDCA, ADHD coach training. I was with a group of other people who also had ADHD and were learning the way that I have been learning.

[00:39:28] Jami Shapiro: So not just the course content, but pulling out other things. And I even as early as I think it was like two weeks ago, I learned about, the T-Rex arms, and you may not have even heard about this, that a lot of people with ADHD or autism sleep in the T-Rex position, kind of with their arms curled up to their body and That's the reason that a lot of people with ADHD have wrist issues. And so I've actually talked to a few people since discovering this. Sure. Including me, I have had a wrist issue and I didn't even know that I slept in a TRex position 'cause I go to bed with. My arm up, but I woke up the first morning and that I discovered and my arms were curled into my body really.

[00:40:07] Jami Shapiro: so just little things And, I discovered the connection with migraine headaches and fibromyalgia being very common with people with ADHD. And that was how we discovered my mom had it 'cause she had had both of those. So And then I learned about, I think it's proprioception, and this happened to me, like if I am, in my hyperfocus mode, everything falls away.

[00:40:27] Jami Shapiro: I'm not hungry. I'm not tired. My brain wants to do that task. And I remember being pregnant, and skipping meals. And my ex-husband saying like, how can you be skipping meals? Wasn't healthy for the baby or for me. For me, I was not aware of those signals in my body, so There's so much we're continuing to learn even more, but one of the things that I loved, and one of the reasons that I'm such an advocate for building this grandma has ADHD community, is that when I talk to somebody with ADHD, we just get each other. we can take the mask off and we can just, yeah.

[00:41:01] Jami Shapiro: No judgment, like you said in the beginning. No judgment.

[00:41:06] Jami Shapiro: So 

[00:41:06] Danielle Kelly: I think it's really cool how you look back and how you said you have those core friends who just get you, they understand that this is you. When I look back, I recognize that most of them. Are neurodivergent themselves. it's kinda like you find your people along the way and that's why they may get you because they also can relate.

[00:41:31] Jami Shapiro: That's so true. And we didn't even know that. We just knew that we were alike. Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah. Okay, so as we're wrapping up this podcast, one of the things with ADHD, at least for me 'cause I can only share my experience, is that I'll have a conversation or I'll do an interview and I'll be like.

[00:41:46] Jami Shapiro: I wish I had said that. Is there anything else that you're gonna be if you don't say it? And I also want people to be able to find you in your podcast. So we'll link to the show notes it's called, yeah. Chaos and Caffeine. Anything else that you want to share with our audience? 'cause I know that, you shared this was your first interview, so thank you.

[00:42:05] Jami Shapiro: I'm privileged to get to do that. 

[00:42:07] Danielle Kelly: Thank you. I am sure that I will click off and be like, oh my gosh, that's what I should have said. But. I can't think of anything right now other than just not just giving your parents grace, but giving yourself grace in the moments, giving your kids some grace because everyone is, dysregulated.

[00:42:26] Danielle Kelly: And thank you for having me. If your audience is listening, the one thing they can do is go and give Jami a five star review 'cause our podcast is amazing and helpful. 

[00:42:38] Jami Shapiro: Oh, well thank you for that. I appreciate it. And I love your interview style and this, was amazing and we are definitely kindred spirits.

[00:42:45] Jami Shapiro: So thank you so much for being on the show. Danielle Kelly, thank you to everybody who listened. and as Danielle said, yes, please give me a five star review. That's kind of hard to ask for, but it really does help the people. Find this podcast and again, find us on Facebook. That is where we are building a Facebook group for people who get us.

[00:43:05] Jami Shapiro: And I am just on a mission to make sure that we de-stigmatize ADHD and recognize that just because you are growing older doesn't mean you shouldn't continue to grow. So thank you so much for listening.

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