Grandma Has ADHD

Episode 65 - Why People With ADHD End Up in Toxic Relationships?

• Jami Shapiro • Episode 65

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What if the chaos in your relationships wasn’t your fault — but a pattern your ADHD brain was wired to fall into?

In this powerful and honest conversation, Jami sits down with licensed therapist, ADHD coach, and domestic violence survivor Kate Mageau to unpack the complicated link between ADHD and toxic relationships — especially for women over 50 who were never taught what “healthy” actually looks like.

Kate shares her personal story of surviving emotional and physical abuse, how late-diagnosed ADHD shaped her relationship patterns, and why so many ADHD women fall hard and fast into unsafe dynamics without realizing what’s happening.

This episode is real, validating, and filled with those “wait… THAT’S me” moments.

Together, Jami and Kate talk about:
 • why ADHD brains are more vulnerable to love bombing and trauma bonding
 • how late diagnosis (often in our 40s and 50s) changes everything
 • anxious attachment, shame, and the urge to “earn” love
 • why calm can feel boring when you’re used to chaos
 • red flags, green flags, and how to trust your body again
 • breaking generational patterns and healing without blaming yourself

And of course… Kate answers the famous Button Question: “If you could erase your ADHD forever… would you?”

Disclaimer:

This episode is for educational and informational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional mental health or medical advice. If you are in an unsafe relationship, please seek support from a licensed professional or local support services.

Resources & Links Mentioned:

Thank you for joining us for this episode of Grandma Has ADHD! We hope Jami's journey and insights into ADHD shed light on the unique challenges faced by older adults. Stay tuned for more episodes where we’ll explore helpful resources, share personal stories, and provide guidance for those navigating ADHD. Don’t forget to subscribe and share this podcast with friends who might benefit. Remember, Make the rest of your life the best of your life.

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Grandma Has ADHD

Have you ever thought, is this just me? When struggling to stay organized, start tasks, or manage time, for those of us over 50, these challenges might not be just aging. They could be ADHD hiding in plain sight for decades. I'm Jami Shapiro, host of Grandma has ADHD, and I'm building a community where your experiences matter.

Whether you are diagnosed, questioning or simply curious. You are not alone. Our Facebook group is filled with vibrant understanding. People over 50 who share their stories, strategies, and yes, even their struggles with plenty of laughter along the way. Ready to find your people. Join our growing grandma has ADHD Facebook community.

Please like and subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and share it with someone who might need to hear. They're not alone because ADHD doesn't have an age limit and neither does understanding yourself better. Together, we're changing the conversation about ADHD after 50 come be part of the story.

Jami Shapiro: my guest today is someone who turned her own survival story into a mission to help others heal. She's a licensed therapist and author, a coach, and a domestic violence survivor who's dedicated her life to helping people escape. Toxic relationships and learn to trust themselves again. She is the brilliant mind behind the book Rose-Colored Glasses and The Healing From Toxic Relationships.

Workbook, practical, compassionate Guides. Born from both professional expertise and deeply personal experience. As a neurodivergent therapist with ADHD herself, she brings a unique perspective to understanding the intersection of ADHD and relationship patterns. She's also trained other therapists spoken across the country, and if you love reality TV like The Bachelor or Love is Blind, you'll appreciate how brilliantly she uses these shows.

To spot toxic relationship red flags in real time. Whether you're healing from trauma, supporting someone who want to understand what healthy relationships really look like. This conversation is going to be eye-opening. Please join me in welcoming the incredible Kate Mageau to the grandma has ADHD podcast.

So Kate, your bio reads like someone with ADHD. Yeah, yeah. I do a lot of things. Fun to see these bios of all of the different things in the paths that we cross. And just so you listeners know, Kate and I have never spoken before. We just said hi, and she told me how to pronounce her name. I met her because we were both asked to do TAD talks, which are basically TED talks, shorter TED talks for adults with ADHD.

And so I reached out because I absolutely love your topic. And so I am going to learn all about you and your path just like the listeners. So welcome. 

Kate Mageau: Thank you so much for having me. What a wonderful introduction. That's sounds so nice to hear. Thank you. 

Jami Shapiro: it's funny because when you have ADHD, you just don't stop to savor what you've done.

Kate Mageau: You just keep moving on to the next thing, and then when You hear it, you're like, that's me, right? yeah. Absolutely. I'm just like, okay, what else can I do? How else can I help? I'm gonna make a new thing 

Jami Shapiro: Do you struggle? There was just an article last week on, it was called Hurry Sickness, how when you have ADHD, you feel like you always have to be going and doing and accomplishing.

And then when you're not you, you don't know what to do with yourself. 

Kate Mageau: Yeah, I mean, I have figured out how to make it work for my life for the most part. Like of course my brain is still always going. But so many people will be like, why don't you just stop and pause?

And I'm like, okay. No, like, yeah. 

Jami Shapiro: We feel like we have so much to contribute to the world. Why not just keep giving it? Because it flows so easily. So I do, first wanna hear about your ADHD story and how long you've known you've had it, and where you were in your journey, and maybe a little bit about your family, and then we'll get into the rest of your work.

Kate Mageau: Sure. So I figured out that I'm ADHD when I became a therapist. So I was in my first couple months as a therapist. And yes, we do learn about it in school, but when we learn about it in school, They really don't do enough of a explanation on it. It's just, you know, maybe a couple pages here and there, and it's kind of presented to therapists and still like the same stereotypical ways.

And so I was like, I remember reading it and I'm like. I kind of feel like this could be me, but no, I don't know. I don't really fit all these things, so maybe not, you know? And then I had this client who already had an ADHD diagnosis, like it was already confirmed. And she comes to me and she's like, I want help with like, being on time to things perfectionist, like trying to figure out which path I want to take.

' cause I have so many ideas and procrastination and she's like describing all these things and I'm like. Go into consultation with my supervisor, like, but aren't these like all normal things that people struggle with? Like, oh no, they're not. They're ADHD symptoms or traits.And so I then like.

Became obsessed with learning about it and just read like every single book. And then I got like ADHD certification and as I realized, like I had that client and I had a couple other clients who are ADHD, I was like, oh, you know what? It's so much more Fun and easy to work with ADHD people than it is to work with neurotypical people.

So then I was like, yeah, I know a lot about this and now this is who I wanna work with. And so that's what I've been doing the last few years and then I had so many clients going, well, I'm pretty sure I'm ADHD, but like, I need to get the diagnosis. And there's just so much gatekeeping and like, oh.

I kept hearing that it had to be from a psychologist. And I'm like, why? Like my license says that I can assess and diagnose. I don't understand why. And so then I started talking to the few other ADHD therapists who were like, yeah, we can do diagnoses. And I was like, okay, that's what I thought. Great, I'm gonna do it.

So I learned everything I can on that and made a whole system. And then now I teach other therapists how to do that too. 

Jami Shapiro: I mean, so I would say a late life diagnosis only because you had to go through school without knowing Yeah. I mean I love hearing other people's stories and I've shared mine before, so I won't go too far into it only to say that I was diagnosed along with my child who was diagnosed by a psychiatrist at 45.

But it was funny because about, 14 or 15 years earlier, I had a friend who had been diagnosed with ADHD and when her son was diagnosed, that would've given me many more years than I had to figure it out. But again, it didn't resonate 'cause I didn't have all of the things. And so for me, and I don't know if you know anything about the background of this and why I named it Grandma has ADHD, but I knew that I had ADHD for eight years before I realized that my mom had it.

And so she was the inspiration because I was already working with seniors to go in and, you know, to older adults and basically give them the explanation for why. They always felt like they were different, but couldn't put their finger on why. I love that you talk about toxic relationships because one of the things that I learned becoming an ADHD coach is how common it is for people with ADHD to be in codependent relationships.

And I would love to hear what you have to say about that. 

Kate Mageau: Mm-hmm. Yes. And as my ADHD brain goes in multiple directions, I also wanna note thatyou were 45. I was 39. That's also around when perimenopause is happening, and so people can get their late diagnosis because they notice if it's a kid, they are doing something more difficult.

In their lives, like starting a business or going to graduate school or what have you. And then also our hormones being different. So all those kind of came into play at once for both of us in different ways. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So,

Jami Shapiro: the Salem Witch trials.

If you go back and you look at the reason that those women would've been persecuted, and you look at ADHD symptoms, there's a thought that, and they were in their forties, you know, that was a common age for women to get persecuted, burned at the stakes. 

Kate Mageau: Oh, I need to learn a little bit more about that. I do love astrology and tarot cards and crystals. 

Jami Shapiro: Oh, I like that too. I'm in California, so I call it my California woo woo. I love it. 

Kate Mageau: So toxic relationships. a DH years are two and a half times more likely to be in a toxic relationship.

Some of the main reasons for that isthe love bombings. Stage When you get that, what people like to call the new relationship energy, when it's like, oh, I'm so excited to be in this new relationship. Love moming doesn't have to look like gifts or look like constant compliments. It can be that, but it can also be, I wanna spend time with you and let's spend all our time together and we're gonna text all the time and be in constant communication.

And what's that? Doing is it is flooding the brain with oxytocin, which is the love hormone. The love chemical. And that is a precursor to how dopamine is created. So the more oxytocin we get, the more dopamine we get. And we all know, ADHD is, we don't get enough dopamine. And so we'll get very excited and easily wrapped up in this relationship.

And then ADHD tend to have a lot more empathy We can easily spend all of our energy and all of our time with somebody who will take it. And a narcissist will take a person's empathy and energy and they grow from it and we shrink. Without it. And that's one aspect of it. Another aspect is that we can, we as an ADHDers can struggle with object permanence.

But I'll just briefly say object permanence is like forgetting that a thing exists. Like I go the back of my closet and I'm like, oh my gosh, I forgot about this sweater. Great. So happy to have this sweater. Well, we can do the same thing with people. And so if we're easily swept up into a relationship and really excited and we're flooded with oxytocin and the dopamine, and we're not.

Taking enough time, like breaks in between those conversations initially to stop and think, is this person right for us? We just get more and more wrapped up and then we forget about our other people in our lives who are there to stabilize us and to support us as we stabilize and support them. And then the other aspect is that, a DH years have a strong sense of justice and being able to say, well, this is right, or this is wrong, and everybody deserves a chance. And so we have these huge hearts that easily forgive people and we can say, well, I understand why this person would treat me this way because they've gone through X, Y, Z and the reality is, we don't deserve to be treated that way.

We don't have to. Stay with someone just because you understand why it happens. 

Jami Shapiro: Those are good reasons. Can I contribute some of what I, and I am not a licensed therapist, but I have gone down the ADHD tunnel for several years now. Wrote a book, you know, so I have a couple theories.

I learned a lot, so I actually was divorced. I know divorce rates are also higher among the ADHD community. in the five years that I was single, I went out with. More than 150 men because I gamified dating, which by the way, I did not know gamification was an ADHD trait. I didn't about adhd, but what I definitely have learned about myself is that I had very anxious attachment style.

Because of my upbringing, because I was raised by ADHD parents. And so if that is the chaos that you know, then we tend to seek what's comfortable for us. And you don't even recognize that that's happening. I also think that a lot of reasons that we are getting into poor relationships and making bad decisions is that generational trauma and repeating.

You know, repeating what our childhood knows. And I think also because of all of the shame that we carry from all of the messages that we hear, sometimes we don't think we deserve to be treated well. I'll share my own story. I won't bash my ex-husband, but I was not physically abused.

I was not. But when I started dating my partner, we've been together for five years. Initially, I did not have the exciting feelings. It was a very calm relationship, and I actually had hired a dating coach and she was like, let's try something different because what you've been doing hasn't been working.

And so I really. Kind of forced myself to try even though it did not feel comfortable for me. And I actually at one point wanted to end the relationship because he was so kind and nice and it was easy and it was gonna get boring and, and I had to just like, my body needed to like be okay with it just being calm.

So I just wanted to throw my own little nuggets in there. 

Kate Mageau: Yeah, those are really great insights and absolutely. And I think when we look at. The anxious attachment styles we get from our parents. I think that it is their general racial trauma and the words that they cited to us about not, you know, oh, you're always dropping things, or you're always late, or you're always X, Y, Z.

I think that goes hand in hand with that shame and What we're used to experiencing. 

Jami Shapiro: Well, in my mom's case she was hearing those same words, you know, so she also carried the shame. So, you know, all of that, that's been, I don't wanna derail what we're gonna talk about today 'cause I do wanna hear, are you comfortable sharing about your own situation and how you decided to get into, you know, how people with domestic violence and 

Kate Mageau: Yeah.

absolutely. I met this man and I had just moved to a city that was near where I grew up, but it was Enough outside of it that I had moved to a new place and so I didn't really know anyone in that area andquickly spent a bunch of time with him and this small friend group and got pretty easily wrapped up into the flood of oxytocin and new relationship energy.

and a couple months into working together our company had said, we are closing this office and we are outsourcing it. And if you want to stay with the company, we have a job for you in Las Vegas. So we had to move from the Seattle area to Las Vegas. And well, I didn't want to go at all.

He wanted to go. Anyhow. So he ends up convincing me like, we're gonna go. And that isone of the tools that abusers use is isolation. So getting a person away from their family, and it didn't really feel like that at time. And one could even question it because it was like, well, I technically the decision to go with him, 

Mm-hmm. Then the isolation became, why are you spending so much time talking to your friends and family back home? You should be spending the time with the people here. We have this new friend group here. And so that became my whole life. And so I became very wrapped up and we got married and I did notice the emotional abuse because I was used to hearing those kinds of things.

Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. 

Kate Mageau: And physical abuse was. Only it happened once a year. Not to sit down, play it, but like, that's how it was in my mind. And so in my mind it was, well, I forgive him, he'll get better, he'll work on it. And anyhow, I ended up leaving without going. So, which is a really brave 

Jami Shapiro: thing to do because what are the statistics for people that remain in abusive relationship?

They're pretty high, aren't they? So,

Kate Mageau: it's hard to say because I don't think that you can accurately get data on that. Sure. But there is data on when a person leaves an unhealthy relationship, an abusive relationship, and then goes back to it, is the highest chance that a person can be murdered.

Jami Shapiro: Hmm. 

Kate Mageau: So it's really important to get out safely in one fell swoop if possible. And there's a lot of resources I can share on that as well. 

Jami Shapiro: so I, a lot of my listeners are going to be people, you know, who are over 50, who have maybe gone through the, their divorce or maybe are single and have lived a long life and are reflecting.

what would you say to somebody who's sort, kind of beating themselves up? You know, for being in a relationship where they accepted that, oh, it only happened one time. And you know, and I will say this too, I, I, I don't wanna use the word abuse in my situation. But I, I was never hit.

And so in my mind, that was abuse. And so I didn't look at neglect or, you know, the ridicule or, you know, whatever. It was just, I was never hit. 

Kate Mageau: Right, right. That was so much the like, oh, well it's not this then it's my washing machine just finished and it was beeping and it distracted me. I love it. I love it.

And by the way, we're not 

Jami Shapiro: editing that out because we keep it like so authentic because it gives everyone else space to be like, I can let my freak flag fly too. 

Kate Mageau: Yes, yes. Absolutely. Okay. Okay. Back on track. So I also wanna say yes, many of your listeners probably have already experienced and have left, but there may be listeners who are still in the relationship because I find that the longer a person's been in the relationship, the harder it is to leave.

So if you're an older person still in a relationship than it is, you know, it, there's more likelihood. Sorry, what was the other part of your question? 

Jami Shapiro: it was what would you say to someone who's beating themselves up? But I do wanna bring out, and that makes sense too, that the longer someone's in that relationship, the harder it is to leave.

And have you, heard of the boiling frog in the pot. Yes. So you wanna share that with our listeners just so they have an understanding. 

Kate Mageau: Yeah. So the method is that the, or the analogy is that a person or a frog is placed into this boiling part of water that is not boiling at first.

It is room temperature at first, and then the water gets hotter and hotter and hotter, and then it's stuck and it's cooked. Yes, and that is. To explain it in psychological terms there's a part of it is called the psych, or one aspect of, it's called the cycle of violence. And the cycle of violence is the pattern of honeymoon period where everything is great.

Tensions building and rising up to like, I don't know, when is the next person, the time? This person is gonna get upset with me. I don't know what might happen next. And then there's the point of the abuse, which may be emotional or psychological or physical, it can be any type, but it's the incident.

And that is a typical pattern that happens in an abusive relationship or a toxic relationship, I'll say. That cycle repeats and repeats, and every time that it repeats, it happens a little bit more quickly. So less time passes between each time and whatever that incident form is, gets worse and more severe each time.

And every time one of those cycles completes and you go through the incident and then to the honeymoon, everything is reconciled. That's a strengthening the trauma bond. So you get more and more into the trauma bond with each passing of the cycle, as well as the other aspect 

It is hard to not use the word abuse when talking about this, because that is really what is the thing? with emotional abuse it really lowers a person's self-esteem. And self-esteem is normally already kind of low with ADHD because of all the things that we've heard in our lives.

And so the more that a person experiences emotional abuse, the more that they lower their self-esteem and therefore. Feel like they should be in that relationship. it's a method of psychological control. So between feeling like, oh, I don't have the self-esteem or the self-confidence to leave and I guess I should be with this person and I made wedding vows to this person, and strengthening the trauma bond, every time an act happens, it just gets harder and harder to leave the longer it goes on.

Jami Shapiro: Right, 

Kate Mageau: right. 

Jami Shapiro: Yeah. One of the things that I wanna talk about definitely before we end the conversation, are the red flags that someone should be looking out for, and also the green flags. what are healthy?

And, and speaking of those green flags, I wanna say, and again, as a recovering person, constantly chasing the thrill or, having to work towards getting someone to like me, like. Earn it and the thrill of the chase. The boredom, which I think, and I hate to use boredom 'cause it's such a negative word, or maybe just the calm and steadiness for somebody with ADHD who is constantly looking for the dopamine and the rush.

You know, having to understand why calm in our body is actually what we want. But at the same time how it's so uncomfortable. So I would love to hear what you have to say about that. 

Kate Mageau: Yeah. Well, the ADHD brain is always looking for dopamine. We don't have enough. We're not making enough naturally as well as norepinephrine, which is a precursor to making adrenaline.

And we don't have enough serotonin. And so our. Brains are predisposed towards finding motivation in thrill, seeking in novelty, in that's the dopamine as well as the joy is through there and urgency in the norepinephrine. And we're not used to having enough serotonin. And so we're used to seeking out relationships with the rollercoaster.

Mm-hmm. And going back to the other question that I only. Partially answered. The knowing all these things are why you can try and start reducing shame for yourself if you've been in this or if you are in it, because these are all the mechanisms that are happening behind the scenes that are not your fault.

The methods of control that people use and the way that your brain is wired, none of it is your fault. it can happen to people of all, income levels and educational levels. it can happen to anybody and there's no way to necessarily prevent it besides knowing what it is and learning those red flags.

So, some of the really early warning signs and red flags would be if a person is showing any signs of being selfish, if they're not thinking of you or looking at even on a first date, how do they treat other people around you? Are they super nice to you, but not nice to others around you?

Or not polite? Or how do they talk about other people in their life? You know, are they just trying to put a big. Best foot forward to you and like what are they saying to others or saying about others if they are trying to constantly communicate with you. You know, being excited and then having that new relationship energy is, is a fun feeling.

But is it okay to like not answer back immediately? How do they respond if you, if they do something that makes you uncomfortable and you express it and say, you know, this is my boundary. Don't do that. How do they respond to that? That's how you can kind of check. And if they respond in a positive way and they work on it, then green flag.

Green flags in a relationship is a lot of the opposite, right? It's being able to feel secure enough to give you space, but also be excited about you and wanna spend time with you. Caring for you and asking about you and talking about other people nicely and showing that they're nice to others.

It is respecting your needs and whatever you ask of like, Hey, can we do this or not do this? Like, how do they respond? And really, really what it all comes down to is how you feel. Because I can give you all the education in the world of what to look for, but what matters is how you feel. Do you feel happy?

Do you feel safe? Do you feel free? 

Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. 

Kate Mageau: Yeah, 

Jami Shapiro: absolutely. you nailed it. One of the things that you said about watching how people, like I heard watch how they treat the waiters and waitresses, and one of the things that I've always told my kids is how when people will show you who they are, you just have to let them.

And how they do one thing is how they do everything. I mean, I see that with clients actually, like clients that are very beginning, in the very beginning are difficult at a consultation. I'm like, they're telling us exactly in the beginning who they're gonna be. So we do need to have our eyes open and I think dating more with our heart and the way that our body feels and less with our eyes, which I, I definitely.

Learned again, a hundred. And I could do my own podcast on just dating 150 men. That's a whole other conversation. But so we're gonna take a pause and when I come back, I always like to ask my guests whether or not they would push the. Not having ADHD button. I don't know if you were at last year's ADHD conference when Pen Holderness gave the keynote, but he said he actually gave that example and I liked it so much that I stole it.

So I always like to hear people's response. So we're gonna take a pause and come right back. And then I'm also going to invite you to share more about what you do so that people can find you. Before we do that, I just wanna encourage everybody who is listening to please like and subscribe and share this podcast and you can find out more about me and my coaching, including the grandma has ADHD podcast and my senior move management and home organizing business actually move management, not just for seniors.

At Jami Shapiro, JAMI, shapiro.me 'cause I couldn't get the.com, which I think is funny and we're gonna come right back with Kate Mageau. So just hang tight.

 

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Jami Shapiro: Okay. And we are back with Kate Majo. She is the author of the book Rose Colored Glasses and Healing From Toxic Relationships Workbook. And when we left you on the break, I asked Kate the button question, which is Kate, if I could give you a button and all you would do is press it, and you never had ADHD, you never have ADHD and you never will have.

It's just erased, gone forever. Would you push that button? 

Kate Mageau: Absolutely not. I love it. 

Jami Shapiro: I love it. That's the consistent answer. I mean, I feel like we were going back to the woowoo side, like this is who we were made to be. You know, we chose this brain because we have so much to offer the world as evidenced by your bio in the beginning of the podcast and all of the things.

Okay. So any other things you wanna share with our listeners before I let them figure out how they can find you and who you work with? 

Kate Mageau: Yeah. So I guess I wanna share just briefly my book, rose Colored Glasses is more of my story. It's, my story of being in a domestic violence relationship or toxic relationship.

And then I have my therapist hat on After every chapter I explain the psychological. Explanations or like whatever was happening from a lens of being a therapist and being a domestic violence. Professional advocate and person working with domestic violence survivors from the objective perspective, right?

So you can read it like you're just reading a book, but then you can actually learn and get a lot of healing. And then I also have the healing from Toxic Relationships workbook, which takes all those same concepts that you find in the book, but in a workbook. And the way to really heal and to feel confident in dating is to learn.

If you learn the concepts, then that will help you to start removing the shame because you'll go, oh, this is what was used against me. This was not my fault. This is what was done to me, and therefore I don't need to carry this shame anymore. And then if you're wanting to date at some point, maybe it's not for a while, or maybe it's a whole bunch of dating, which I did a whole bunch of dating right after too.

If you are wanting to date again and feel confident, then if you know what all of these different mechanisms are that are used in abuse, then you can know how to look out for them and you can feel really safe and confident dating again. 

Jami Shapiro: Any I didn't get into the reality tv, but I have to tell you, 

I am embarrassingly a fan. I like it. And I, are you kidding me? Like, don't you see this? So before we close, any big thing you wanna share from any realities? 

Kate Mageau: Sure. So yeah, I love to watch it and like make little videos or post on threads or Blue sky. And I just did a long video. If you, did you watch The Golden Bachelor? 

Jami Shapiro: I didn't watch this one. I watched the first one. Oh. 

Kate Mageau: Okay, so this one, it was mostly pretty boring because the Golden Bachelor actually like, did not show any vulnerability in actually trying to date these people.

And then in the, after the final Rose, he did oh, much gaslighting, like 10 minutes of a gaslighting conversation. So I broke it down to explain to people. 

Jami Shapiro: So how can they find this gaslight? And it's perfect for my audience because just in case you've lived under a rock and you don't know what the Golden Bachelor is.

It is for older adults. I think it's 50 and over. Who are out in the dating world. 

Kate Mageau: Yeah. I would say like the median age is probably 55 or 58, I would say is a median age on it. Probably skewing more sixties, but fifties too. 

Jami Shapiro: Yeah. I know that the Bachelor was a former, football player, that's all I know.

I saw a little glimpse when I was flying to the International ADHD conference, but that was it. Okay, so how can people find you, Kate? 

Kate Mageau: Yeah, so you can find all the, the videos and things I post about everything online. My social media handle everywhere is at Kate dot therapist, dot author, and then my website for coaching for my books is kate ADHD.com.

 

Jami Shapiro: An older audience probably not gonna go onto the Instagram, they're gonna go onto the web. So, so spell out Majo, just so someone's listening. Oh. So give us the website. Yes, yes, 

Kate Mageau: yes. My website with coaching and books is www.katemageau.com. Perfect. Nice and slow.

Great. And then if a person is in Washington or Florida and wants an ADHD diagnosis, or if you are a therapist who wants to learn how to do them? That is on my therapy website. Legally, we have to have two separate websites, so my therapy website is. Empowering therapy.online. I also cannot get the.com.

 

Jami Shapiro: empowering therapy online. So I have a question. Can you help any therapist anywhere get that certification? Because that's something that I'm asked pretty frequently is how? 'cause it's really hard. There's not a lot of diagnostic testing for adults and especially adult women 

Kate Mageau: or older. Yes. So it's not so much of a certification.

I got my certification through Pesci which is like all the therapists. We know that this is the website we go to. Their certification. So I got that as far as saying like I'm an ADHD clinical services provider, but as far as doing the assessments, if you work with ADHD people and you feel confident that you know about it then, and your license says you can assess and diagnose, then you can do it.

And so that training is on my website for any therapist to take the training and. Learn about what the actual business side process and what the diagnostic materials are that have been working for me. There's no one official way, but it's been working for me really well. So yes, anyone can go and take that training if they want.

 

Jami Shapiro: I'm actually frequently asked and my diagnosis actually came from my child psychiatrist, which I don't think is really the way people are supposed to be evaluated for it. But what, you know, people do ask me and I really haven't had a good answer. 'cause all I hear is, you know, there just really aren't a lot of diagnostic tests for older adults.

what would you say to our audience if they, I always just say find someone who's trained in ADHD. Because my mom's doctor told her, we don't treat ADHD in older adults. We don't give them drugs, which I know is not true for everybody. But what would you tell them if they wanna get some sort of assessment or diagnostic?

Kate Mageau: So I would say if you're in Washington, Florida, come to me. But other than that, go to Psychology Today. That is the website where like all the therapists and psychiatrists live and search under testing and evaluation. And then you can find that and click ADHD and you can find someone who will be able to diagnose and evaluate you.

Jami Shapiro: I do know that there's not great criteria out there at this point, and it's not from what I've learned, at least the ADHD conference, they just said that, we still haven't updated the testing for older adults. We're still using criteria for young boys. I don't know what you, you know more than I do.

 

Kate Mageau: I use what's called the diva, and it is a subjective narrative assessment. And so I use my own personal understanding as I go through professional, personal understanding that I go through with each person. Yes. 

Jami Shapiro: Well, anything else you wanna share with our listeners before we end this podcast?

Kate Mageau: Oh, I am kind of putting out the feelers for anyone who might want to work on writing their own memoir. I would love to do some coaching around people being able to tell their stories too.

I've spoken like a 

Jami Shapiro: true person with ADHD, I'm doing another thing that's, that's like me. I get into all of the things I'm doing. But anyway, thank you Kate. we had, we struggled a lot to kind of find a time that we could both get together. I'm glad that this finally worked out. I think it was a really important conversation and the last thing any of us needs to do after we have spent our entire lives.

Compensating without even knowing that we had to work so much harder than everybody else. The last thing that we need to do is beat ourselves up. for a brain wiring that is different. We're not mentally ill, we're not disordered. We just have chemical imbalances and, you know, anyway, when it comes to being in an abusive relationship.

Please don't stay in that you don't deserve it. and this was the thing that I remember saying to my ex-husband, would you want someone treating our children the way you treat me? and he said, no. I do wanna say again, I don't like to use the word abuse 'cause that's really harsh and he was, a very decent person.

but he didn't treat me as kindly as I think I should have been treated. I'll just leave it at that. So anyway, yes. 

Kate Mageau: Everyone deserves to be treated in a way that makes them feel happy and free. 

Jami Shapiro: Absolutely happy, safe, and free. Thank you for listening. Thank you, Kate, for giving us your time.

Please go out and make the rest of your life the best of your life. 

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