Episode 78 - Anxiety and ADHD the hidden sign we all missed.

Lynn Layfield on Anxiety (Part 1)

In this deeply personal and emotional episode of the Grandma Has ADHD Podcast, Jami welcomes back her longtime friend and Sparkler Society co-founder, Lynn Layfield, for a conversation unlike any they’ve had publicly before.

What began as a private conversation about anxiety quickly turned into something much bigger. Jami realized their discussion needed to be recorded because Lynn’s story reflects something many women are just beginning to understand: the complicated relationship between ADHD, anxiety, and emotional regulation.

For the first time, Lynn opens up about the struggles she faced growing up — long before ADHD was widely understood in girls.

From sleepless nights and intense fears as a child to years of therapy and misinterpretation of her symptoms, Lynn shares how her childhood experiences shaped her life and how ADHD may have been influencing her anxiety all along.

This episode also highlights a growing realization happening today: many women are being diagnosed with ADHD later in life after decades of confusion, misdiagnosis, or being told their struggles were simply anxiety.

Jami and Lynn explore how creativity, emotional sensitivity, and imagination — strengths often found in ADHD brains — can also contribute to anxiety when left unsupported.

This conversation is honest, vulnerable, and deeply relatable for anyone who has ever wondered why their mind works the way it does.

Part 1 sets the stage for Lynn’s story and the childhood experiences that shaped her journey.

In This Episode

• Why this episode is different from any Lynn has shared before
• The emotional side of ADHD that many people never see
• The connection between ADHD and anxiety
• Why many adults — especially women — are being diagnosed later in life
• Lynn’s childhood experiences with anxiety and sleeplessness
• Growing up before ADHD in girls was widely recognized
• How ADHD creativity can amplify fears and imagination
• Early therapy approaches used in the 1970s and 1980s
• Reward systems, journaling, and childhood coping strategies
• The importance of community and shared experiences
  
  

Key Takeaways

✨ ADHD doesn’t always look the way people expect.
 ✨ Anxiety is common for people with ADHD but may not always be the root cause.
 ✨ Many adults are discovering their ADHD later in life.
 ✨ Creativity and imagination — strengths of ADHD brains — can also intensify anxiety.
 ✨ Community and understanding are powerful tools for people navigating ADHD.

About Lynn Layfield

Lynn Layfield is the co-founder of the Sparkler Society alongside Jami Shapiro. She brings humor, creativity, and honesty to conversations about ADHD, anxiety, and personal growth.

In this episode, Lynn courageously shares parts of her story she has rarely discussed publicly — offering insight and hope to others who may see themselves in her journey.

Resources Mentioned

• The upcoming Sparkler Society community
• Jami Shapiro’s ADHD coaching services

Thank you for joining us for this episode of Grandma Has ADHD! We hope Jami's journey and insights into ADHD shed light on the unique challenges faced by older adults. Stay tuned for more episodes where we’ll explore helpful resources, share personal stories, and provide guidance for those navigating ADHD. Don’t forget to subscribe and share this podcast with friends who might benefit. Remember, Make the rest of your life the best of your life.

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Transcript

Lynn Layfield on Anxiety Part 1

[00:00:00] Speaker: Hi, and welcome to the grandma has a DHD podcast. I am joined again today [00:00:10] by, um, my co-founder of the Sparkler Society and one of my very best friends Linley Field, and I'm gonna put it out there right now. This is gonna [00:00:20] be a very unusual. Podcast episode. Uh, and I wanna give you the story, the set, the story for how this all came about.

[00:00:28] Speaker: So last week, [00:00:30] Lynn and I started talking about our different anxieties, and I said, pause. Pause. We need to record. This is one of those conversations we need to record. Um, well fast [00:00:40] forward, we, we, we put it into. Speed because one of my very favorite A DHD influencers is pen holderness. And you'll, you'll hear me [00:00:50] talk about him when we pushed the button.

[00:00:51] Speaker: He's was the keynote speaker at the International A DHD conference. Well, he and his wife Kim, wrote a book, A DHD is awesome. A couple of years [00:01:00] ago, one of my favorite books. Um, anyway, uh, she wrote it as, you know, the supportive. Spouse of the A DHD partner [00:01:10] and they just announced all over social media that Kim just got diagnosed with A DHD at the age of 49 after she had already written a [00:01:20] book on the subject.

[00:01:20] Speaker: Which just goes to show that more and more people are understanding that A DHD is a real thing. It's it, it [00:01:30] is absolutely impacting, um. More than just the hyperactive little boy. And, and, and as I've been saying for years now, you know, you're going to hear more [00:01:40] and more and more people come to the realization that they have it.

[00:01:43] Speaker: And I wanna say before Lynn gets started, that she, um, Kim Holderness said that one of the [00:01:50] hesitations that she had of sharing it is that she feels, you know, guilty that she isn't impacted the same way that maybe the little boy who can't sit. Still or [00:02:00] can't concentrate in school is impacted. But I was actually thinking about this when Lynn told me she wanted to, to do this podcast today.

[00:02:06] Speaker: And, and the thing is, the rejection [00:02:10] sensitivity and the emotional dysregulation, um, that we have when we have a DHD. Is can be debilitating and we, we struggle to like look at like we [00:02:20] have it together. Um, and, and so externally you don't know how much we're suffering inside. And so I wanna just acknowledge that first and [00:02:30] say to you that Lynn is my fun bobby friend.

[00:02:32] Speaker: Lynn is the friend that's always laughing the loud mouth, you know, put it out there, Teflon ish. You think that's who she [00:02:40] is? And she said to me, I wanna do this. But I'm super nervous about it because it's not the Lynn that I normally put out into the world. And I said, Lynn, that's exactly why [00:02:50] we need to put this out.

[00:02:51] Speaker: So I have not had this conversation with Lynn, um, only to say before you listen to this podcast, if you know Lynn, this is gonna be a very different side of Lynn. [00:03:00] And if you don't know Lynn, I think you're gonna. Probably hear a lot of yourself in her story. So how was that for an introduction, Lynn? 

[00:03:08] Speaker 2: Oh, that's great.

[00:03:09] Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. You kinda [00:03:10] like made me like tear up a little bit. You did. You did because, um, because, and I felt, I felt like I, let me just say this. I [00:03:20] wish we could reach out and like hug Kim or like go drink with her right now. So I am, I am feeling that, um, because, [00:03:30] um, because she was diagnosed with anxiety or misdiagnosed with anxiety, and then now it turns out, out she has a DHD.

[00:03:37] Speaker 2: So, you know, that's, [00:03:40] that's, you know, gonna be a lot of my story. But what gets me kind of vulnerable and emotional about it is, um. [00:03:50] You and I have been friends for 20 years, and I've never told you my story. My husband and I have been married for 30 years and he's never really wanted to know the details of that [00:04:00] story.

[00:04:00] Speaker 2: And I'm very much, uh, one of these people that the past, the past, you can't change the past and the past is what it is, and you keep moving forward and it just kind of [00:04:10] makes you stronger in who you are today. But, um, but man, um. Kind of thinking about it today for this podcast, I was just getting really emotional because [00:04:20] I, I'm getting emotional about what my parents went through, dealing with me and, and all the tools that they didn't have.

[00:04:28] Speaker 2: And then here I am at [00:04:30] 50 and um, I think there is a growing number of women like us. 

[00:04:37] Speaker: Okay. 

[00:04:37] Speaker 2: First of 

[00:04:37] Speaker: all, I'm gonna pause a couple things. Yeah. [00:04:40] You need to be closer to the microphone 'cause you're coming in and out. 

[00:04:43] Speaker 2: Oh, 

[00:04:43] Speaker: okay. You're not 50, you're 56. So I wanna put that out there and, and, and I just wanna clarify the [00:04:50] misdiagnosed of anxiety.

[00:04:51] Speaker: Um, and so what, what, there's two different anxieties and one is, and, and by the way, I just got schooled on it in my podcast interview with Dr. [00:05:00] Goodman, um, which is gonna come out next week. Um. Anxiety disorder is different than anxiety. Um, because I asked him the question, [00:05:10] you know, if I had heard that anywhere from 30 to 50% of people with A DHD have anxiety, and yet every single person that I know with A DHD has [00:05:20] anxiety.

[00:05:20] Speaker: And I asked him that question. He said, no, no, no. The difference is. He said anxiety, yes. Most people will have anxiety at different times in their life. Um, they will have, you [00:05:30] know, something that is coming up that they will be anxious about and, and then that thing will happen and then that anxiety will, will subside.

[00:05:36] Speaker: He said the difference between that and anxiety [00:05:40] disorder, is that an anxiety that impacts your life? You know, it isn't that, that. Thing doesn't pass and then go away. I mean, it's causing you to have sleepless nights. It's [00:05:50] causing you to feel it in your body. Um, and so, so a lot of people. With a DHD, 30 to 50% also have an [00:06:00] anxiety disorder.

[00:06:01] Speaker: And what they're discovering is that if you treat the A DHD, a lot of times the anxiety disorder [00:06:10] gets better, but not in all cases. But what's happening is they're sometimes, and again, I'm not a doctor, I wanna make sure I'm very clear when I talk about medication, um, that [00:06:20] sometimes. Um, they're treating the anxiety and they're not going to, what's the cause of the anxiety, which could be the A DHD.

[00:06:27] Speaker: So I just wanna make like I'm not diagnosing. [00:06:30] If you have anxiety, you need to seek professional help. But I'm going to strongly encourage you find that professional help Who understands A DHD [00:06:40] because so many. Physicians, uh, don't. And, uh, even Dr. Goodman, who's been doing this for 40 years, talking about [00:06:50] older adults and adults with A DHD as a psychiatrist, well before any of his contemporaries caught up.

[00:06:56] Speaker: In fact, he told me in the interview that they thought he was [00:07:00] crazy there. They said, A DHD isn't a thing. You're gonna hurt your career. What are you doing? And I said, you know, look at you now. Look at you now. So I just wanna [00:07:10] make sure that I, I put that out there before we, you know, get into your story. 

[00:07:15] Speaker 2: No, no, I think along, I think along the way you're gonna have some good, um, whatever the [00:07:20] name it was that I was feeling or whatever, um, you're gonna know the new name of it.

[00:07:25] Speaker 2: So, so I think it's gonna be very helpful to our audience of, of, of [00:07:30] where I'm starting. Um, because I'm starting 1975, so there's a lot that just wasn't known and there was a lot that, [00:07:40] um, I'm sure my parents, um, you know, probably didn't know where to go. But I will say that they knew they had a problem with me, [00:07:50] um, because I had a huge amounts of, of energy.

[00:07:55] Speaker 2: Um, I had huge amounts of, of interest, [00:08:00] which, which I think, you know, they probably enjoy that. I was interested in so many things, um, that, you know, I was kind of getting into trouble in the sense [00:08:10] that, um, I was a very much a risk taker. Um, I, I have a fake tooth because I was very much a risk taker, um, jumping outta trees and doing things [00:08:20] like that.

[00:08:21] Speaker 2: But I think what finally put my parents over the edge and they were like, we've got to find a, um, child psychologist. I [00:08:30] think that's really where they started. I haven't looked at my paperwork, but I believe they started with some type of child psychologist is when I stopped sleeping through [00:08:40] the night. I, I literally, um, was up all night.

[00:08:46] Speaker 2: Now, I, I don't know if you can picture this, Jamie, but you have two children. [00:08:50] They're about five years apart. Both, you know, both daughters and one is awake in the middle of the night roaming through the house. A [00:09:00] kindergartner. Um, and she's anxious, meaning that I am worried, I am, uh, anxious. I'm not [00:09:10] sleeping.

[00:09:10] Speaker 2: A lot of it, if, if I would go to sleep, I would wake up suddenly sort of, kind of screaming because, um, my nightmares were so. [00:09:20] Were so scary. Like I can still recall some of them now, and they were always about, uh, believe it or not, serial killers, which we'll get to that in a second. But they were [00:09:30] about, you know, somebody kind of coming to get me and harm me.

[00:09:34] Speaker 2: So I just willed myself to stay awake all night long, and I [00:09:40] didn't do it quietly. I, I, I tried to. Keep everyone in the family away. So, you know, my parents would start heading off [00:09:50] to sleep and I was a little kindergartner that would walk in and say, I need a glass of water. I want another book. I'm hungry.

[00:09:57] Speaker 2: I'm this, I'm that to keep the party going, [00:10:00] Jamie, I'm, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna take it. Keep the party going. I, I wanted to keep the party going all night long because I was, you know, scared of the night and scared of, of being [00:10:10] alone. And a family just can't. Continue with that. Um, and so I think my parents' first strategy was, um, [00:10:20] she has all these interests and, um, you know, my parents were, were, were doing pretty well.

[00:10:26] Speaker 2: Um, at the time we were in Fort Lauderdale, so they were [00:10:30] like, let's sign her up for everything she's interested in. So I was, um, I was in brownies. I was in cheerleading, [00:10:40] I was in soccer, I was taking tennis lessons and I was doing ice skating. And I was doing dancing all at the same time. 

[00:10:48] Speaker: Wow. Did you see my [00:10:50] eyes just go up, Lynn?

[00:10:53] Speaker: What? That's a lot. And by the way, we didn't get overscheduled back in the day when, you know, we were growing up the way [00:11:00] that we overschedule our kids now. So that's even an overscheduled in today's day. So, 

[00:11:06] Speaker 2: yeah, and I think that, that, I think they were [00:11:10] thinking, okay, um, we wanna be supportive of all her, her interests.

[00:11:14] Speaker 2: And keep in mind, you know, now that we know that I'm a DHD, you know, that [00:11:20] after they signed me up for cheerleading, I was interested for about two weeks. And then it became my mom dragging me to cheerleading. And I had, I had [00:11:30] moved on, I now was interested in playing tennis. Now I was interested in soccer.

[00:11:34] Speaker 2: My dad's coaching soccer. He is like, you're not gonna quit the team. You gotta do the whole entire, you know, my parents [00:11:40] were very big on what you start, you must finish. So even if I did lose interest. Um, I would stay in it until, you know, they're fully paid for membership or [00:11:50] wherever it was, um, was done.

[00:11:52] Speaker 2: And a lot of these things were, you know, obviously very expensive. Um, ice skating in Florida is, is not a cheap [00:12:00] sport for Lin to get into, which I got into it because I watched the movie Ice Castles and then became obsessed. And so, um, you know, I started ice skating, very [00:12:10] expensive sport, which I did continue up until like the seventh grade.

[00:12:13] Speaker 2: So. So I'm in all these sports and, um, as far as [00:12:20] school's concerned, I'm in trouble, uh, a lot, um, because I'm, I'm fairly disruptive. My ga, my grades are not straight [00:12:30] A's because I'm losing all my. My projects, um, sometimes I had to do like different projects two or three times because I couldn't [00:12:40] remember where I put things and we, my mom would just be like, we're just gonna start it over again.

[00:12:45] Speaker 2: So we'd just go on version three. Um, and doing this [00:12:50] all with. Zero sleep. I mean, if you look closely at some of my pictures, um, all of my pictures are me smiling and doing like a funny, ah, you know, [00:13:00] I mean, I always have my tongue out. I don't know why they're terrible pictures of me with my, you know, my, my horrible bangs.

[00:13:07] Speaker 2: And, um, but if you look closely, if you [00:13:10] took AI and you were like, do you see circles? There were circles underneath my eyes, and I'm pretty sure that my teachers, you know, in teacher conferences with my mom. [00:13:20] My dad were like, she's clearly not getting enough sleep. Um, and then you put that with, um, I was eating tons of sugar.[00:13:30] 

[00:13:30] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Um, because sugar was, what would, you know, give me that high so that I could get to my next activity and then, you know, I'd hit that low. So, um, I was on a [00:13:40] pure like sugar, uh, diet, no sleep and, um. And so my parents had had it, so they took me [00:13:50] to my first child psychologist. Wait, 

[00:13:52] Speaker: I wanna, I wanna interrupt you because I don't wanna lose my questions and we'll go back to that.

[00:13:56] Speaker: Sure. Because, yeah. Okay. So one is, [00:14:00] um, do any idea how, well, first of all, was do you, do you think that there was a triggering event, um, that caused you as a, as a five-year-old to think of a serial [00:14:10] killer is, I mean, how would you even know what that was? 

[00:14:17] Speaker 2: I, I don't know. I [00:14:20] think, I think that, um, in Fort Lauderdale, I think I might have somehow been present when the news was on [00:14:30] and there was a story about, um, a white van that was like picking up kids.

[00:14:38] Speaker 2: And then, um, at that [00:14:40] point, my creative mind just started, you know, well, why does it have to be a white van? I mean, if you have a white van, you could just come into the house when everybody's [00:14:50] asleep, right? So I think I just was put on alert there. 

[00:14:52] Speaker: Sure, because I grew up, um, also in South Florida when Adam Walsh, which, you know, code Adam and I believe that was like 1977.

[00:14:59] Speaker: [00:15:00] 1978. Yeah. So we would've been, you know, we would've been first, second grade at that point. And actually that was one of the reasons that we left South Florida. Um, 'cause it, it, it impacted me as well. [00:15:10] Um, and, but this is your story. 

[00:15:12] Speaker 2: No, no, no. I mean, feel free to chime in 'cause we're, you know, we're of the same age, so, and you were in Fort Florida at the same time, which is also crazy.[00:15:20] 

[00:15:20] Speaker: Yeah. 

[00:15:20] Speaker 2: And so, um, you know, you can recall things that maybe I, I may not have been paying attention to. 

[00:15:26] Speaker: Yeah. 

[00:15:26] Speaker 2: Now I'll tell you, oh, go ahead. 

[00:15:29] Speaker: No, I was gonna [00:15:30] say interestingly, 'cause again, we are, you know, less than three weeks apart. I also lived in South Florida and I remember getting in trouble, um, around the age of six [00:15:40] because I wouldn't leave my bedroom at night and I would have to go to the bathroom and I would.

[00:15:45] Speaker: This is really TMI, but just to share it with you, I would, um, pee into my T [00:15:50] set, um, because I didn't wanna pee in bed and I didn't wanna leave my bedroom. And then I got in trouble because I would forget that I had peed in the T set and [00:16:00] forget to clean it out. And my evil stepmother. It was horrible and the punishment for me was now I'm gonna get emotional.

[00:16:09] Speaker: Um, [00:16:10] that at six years old I was going to have to wear a diaper that everybody was going to have to see when I would go out in public. Um, 

[00:16:17] Speaker 2: oh my God. 

[00:16:17] Speaker: I'm gonna start, yeah. Um, really [00:16:20] terrible humiliation and shame. Um, and so it's interesting that we were around the same age when that was happening. And then when I was around eight or nine, I saw the movie [00:16:30] Death on the Nile by Agatha Christie, and in the movie, spoiler Alert, I think it's her fiance that kills, kills the, the main character.

[00:16:39] Speaker: And so. [00:16:40] I should not have seen that movie, but I would then lock my door every night. At this point, I'm now living with my mother because I was worried she was gonna come in and kill me in the middle of the night. So we have, we have [00:16:50] that in common. But I, this is the other question I was gonna ask you, like, how long did you go without sleeping?

[00:16:57] Speaker 2: Oh, oh, I mean, you [00:17:00] know. I, I mean, I can't, can't recall, but I think, um, what I can remember is, 'cause you know, [00:17:10] with your memories of kindergarten, it gets fuzzy. But then as you get into like first and second grade and we're talking about this goes up to seventh grade, um, I would [00:17:20] say my longest time was like three days.

[00:17:25] Speaker: Wow. 

[00:17:25] Speaker 2: But, but, um, you know what gets really interesting [00:17:30] is. If we were driving in the car from one activity to another, you know, you could see me passing out and they would let me pass out. [00:17:40] There was also a strategy of we cannot let her pass out. So, you know, when, when we, when it starts to get really creative and interesting of how to deal with a.[00:17:50] 

[00:17:50] Speaker 2: With me at that age. Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:52] Speaker: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:53] Speaker 2: Um, my parents are creative people and my mom's a very, very confident woman. So for her to admit [00:18:00] that she can't solve me must have been a huge decision for her because, you know, she believes she can solve everything and she believes she does everything really well. Um, she's not [00:18:10] here to.

[00:18:10] Speaker 2: Talk about herself. But I will say, and you've met her, that, you know, she's, she's confident and I, I thought she was a great mom, so I know she, she was trying everything, [00:18:20] including that she was spending all of her life in a car. Yeah. Taking me from one activity to another, which was kind of unheard of back then.

[00:18:29] Speaker 2: [00:18:30] Most people, you know, the kids played in the neighborhood, but here I am in this car. We are, we are going from one activity to another, sometimes three to four activities on a single [00:18:40] day. So, um, you know, some of them starting at five. Ice skating would start at five, which made me very happy because that made, made me [00:18:50] feel like my night was shorter alone because we started earlier in the morning, so I just had to make it to, you know, four or 5:00 AM get my stuff together and [00:19:00] get ready for my next activity.

[00:19:01] Speaker 2: So, wow. So, you know, the more that I shortened the night, the better off I felt. The more that I extended the entertainment, tucking [00:19:10] me in bed, the shorter my night became. So I was very strategic in that way of doing that, even, even at a very young age. So, 

[00:19:18] Speaker: um, yeah, I. [00:19:20] I wanna actually highlight something too that, that I just thought about with, with A DHD and anxiety.

[00:19:24] Speaker: And to your point, you extended the white van like your brain. And that's [00:19:30] what happens with with with A DHD, at least in my lived experience, is we are so creative that we will. Like jump to the next thing. And you know, for [00:19:40] me, you remember, and you know, I'm really funny about germs and how I eat and blah, blah, blah, but in my whatever brain alcohol kills germs so I can [00:19:50] share an alcoholic drink.

[00:19:51] Speaker: I mean, it's like we make these leaps that are just right, 

[00:19:54] Speaker 2: right? 

[00:19:55] Speaker: Yeah. 

[00:19:56] Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I all, all kinds of crazy things, [00:20:00] um, you know, that we are just, we're just so creative. I mean, you could make. Horror movies out of my dreams from my younger self. I mean, you [00:20:10] really could, if anybody needs horror ideas, I'm pretty sure I've got a, a few of them that I could recall.

[00:20:16] Speaker 2: Um, so, and that's. 

[00:20:18] Speaker: Probably why [00:20:20] as I'm interrupting you, my a d adhd, that's probably why we are the creatives and the entertainers and the writers and the artists because of that creativity. Okay. Before we come [00:20:30] back and we're gonna pick up from you went to the psychologist and we're gonna go more on and ask also how, um.

[00:20:38] Speaker: How Kim [00:20:40] Holderness and how we're gonna just see more and more and more of this. I wanna take a pause. I've already asked you the button question, so I'm not gonna ask you the button question. [00:20:50] Um, by the way, if you're listening to this podcast for the very first time, normally what I will do before we go into our break is I will ask my guest if they could push a [00:21:00] button and not have a DHD.

[00:21:02] Speaker: They would push that button. Um, and so you're gonna have to listen to another episode with Lynn to hear whether she would push that button. Um, but I do, as [00:21:10] we're going into this break, want to first of all encourage you to please like and subscribe to this podcast and share it with your friends, because like I said, this is a thing if you didn't [00:21:20] believe it before.

[00:21:21] Speaker: You're gonna, it was just an Atlantic magazine. Um, Mel Robbins was just speaking about it on, um, Sunday morning. Uh, we're just finally [00:21:30] realizing that, that this is a thing that all of us, a lot of us, all of us who've had it, have, have lived with a lot of these challenges and no one was talking about it. [00:21:40] Um, like I've never heard this story from Lynn, by the way.

[00:21:42] Speaker: And we've been friends. Since I was 21, um, and now I'm 56, so is Lynn. Um, the other thing I wanna share with you is that [00:21:50] Lynn and I co-founded the Sparkler Society, and that came about because I started this podcast. [00:22:00] Wanting to educate people about A DHD and, and I became an A DHD coach and what I realized is people with A DHD need community.

[00:22:09] Speaker: We need to know [00:22:10] that we're not the only weird ones out there. Um, a lot of people that I know who are super, super successful in so many areas of their life. One of them, um, has [00:22:20] other areas where we struggle, like paying bills on time, um, completing forms, remembering to take the laundry out of the dryer.

[00:22:27] Speaker: So, um, so the theme [00:22:30] of the Sparkler Society is let's get our shit together. Together. And so we are in the process of building this [00:22:40] community, building the infrastructure, creating how it's gonna work, understanding an A DHD brain. Um, and then we're gonna start, we, we've already started a waiting [00:22:50] list and we're gonna be bringing in people on the waiting list to help form what it is that they feel is gonna be the most.

[00:22:57] Speaker: Beneficial and supportive [00:23:00] because again, you're gonna see, uh, millions of middle-aged women who and, and beyond who are all of a sudden saying, you know, this, this [00:23:10] makes so much sense. And even my book title is this Explains so much, which I'm actually coming out with a second version to include the Sparkler Society.

[00:23:18] Speaker: But all that to say you're going [00:23:20] to hear a commercial, um. I think about my coaching. Um, we, we just talked about the Sparkler Society. Other episodes I had to go back and say, oh, if you've heard about it, [00:23:30] we're actually pulling a wait list. But if you are interested and you wanna be part of what Wynn and I have going on, um, you're gonna go to Jamie shapiro.me, [00:23:40] J-A-M-I-S-H-A-P-I o.me, and you'll find a tab for the Sparkler Society, and that will take you to the wait list.

[00:23:45] Speaker: And then the other thing you're gonna hear is, uh, what keeps the lights on for me right [00:23:50] now is my business as a senior move manager and home organizing company in San Diego and Coachella Valley called Silver Linings Transitions. So you'll hear that commercial before we [00:24:00] come back and you'll also, you.

[00:24:01] Speaker: Hear a, a note about working with me as a coach. So the Sparkler society isn't open yet. Well, we'll be doing group coaching, um, and [00:24:10] other benefits of the membership. Um, but if you want to work with me before that, you can also find out about working with me as a coach wherever you are. And I will say that my.

[00:24:19] Speaker: [00:24:20] Special area of interest is actually decluttering and downsizing with an understanding of A DHD because we, and I'm the, the story myself, my [00:24:30] mom and I battled her clutter, um, my whole adult life. And when I realized that I couldn't expect my mom to go through the process of downsizing and [00:24:40] decluttering the same.

[00:24:41] Speaker: Uh, um, without understanding that she's also been impacted by A DHD her whole life and that changes how she makes decisions and why she has piles of stuff. [00:24:50] So anyway, I wanna stop all that 'cause you're gonna hear a bunch of that in the commercial and then we're gonna come back with Lynn and hear the rest of the story.

[00:24:57] Speaker: Okay. Okay, so we are [00:25:00] back, Lynn. I want, I wanna pick up the story. Uh, your parents take you to a psychologist. You think you're around the age of five, by the way. It's, it's totally normal. Um, both as a young child with or without a [00:25:10] DHD to have those memories kind of like blend together and then lose a lot of our, our memory.

[00:25:14] Speaker: I've read something about why that is. It's, it's normal and I don't remember why. Um, but [00:25:20] then throw in a little A DHD and I've noticed I will interweave stories. You know, I can't keep straight, you know, who it was or when it was, so, so anyway [00:25:30] ish. So your parents take you to a psychologist ish around the age, or they take you to the psychologist Around the age of five ish?

[00:25:38] Speaker 2: Yeah, around the age of [00:25:40] five ish. Um, my, my dad is still, is still with us and somewhere in his very organized file cabinet, he has all the notes. I [00:25:50] have never read them, um, because again, I am a go forward, don't look back type of person. So I did not read them before this episode. Um, [00:26:00] I have always wondered if, you know, um, when my dad does pass and I'm going through his things, whether I would toss them out or whether I would read them, and I figured [00:26:10] I will wait till that day comes, um, because I may not.

[00:26:13] Speaker 2: I did find out that my sister went back and read my therapy notes, which I believe is a HIPAA violation, but [00:26:20] whatever. Um, she did that for whatever reason, to understand me, I guess, or not understand me. But, um, they take me to the first one. And let me just tell [00:26:30] you again and remind your listeners again.

[00:26:33] Speaker 2: That my mom is a very confident woman. She does not, she would not [00:26:40] ever see this as a failure on her part, and she did not want me to feel like it was a failure on my part. So when she explained to me where I was [00:26:50] going, she made it sound like just another activity. That was super awesome. So she sold me on it.

[00:26:58] Speaker 2: She did not tell me I had [00:27:00] anything wrong with me. She was like, we're gonna go and you're gonna talk to somebody because you love talking and, and you're so entertaining that you're gonna go and you're [00:27:10] gonna go entertain a child psychologist. And you know what? Tell your friends. My mom was very big about me telling [00:27:20] my friends there was not going to be any shame, there was not gonna be any hiding.

[00:27:24] Speaker 2: She was like, I want you to tell all your friends you're going to a child psychologist. So I, I was bragging in the [00:27:30] neighborhood. Wow. Like I get to go to this place that has fun toys and whatever, and I get to go to this place and I get to talk to somebody who [00:27:40] actually. Cares what I have to say. And I just sold this thing and all my friends were like, that's so super awesome.

[00:27:46] Speaker 2: Tell us what happens. So, [00:27:50] so, so I went and I think the first strategy that they tried to use was the dopamine strategy, which is really interesting, right? [00:28:00] I'm not diagnosed with A DHD, but they're trying to give me, um, rewards. I guess that was. What was, um, in vogue was a reward strategy. [00:28:10] There was no concept of anxiety medicine or sleep medicine for a kindergartner.

[00:28:15] Speaker 2: So, um, they had me make a beautiful, colorful [00:28:20] poster, um, of the days of the week. And, um, I got to pick what my goal was. You wanna know what my goal was, my first goal that I can recall, [00:28:30] um, what my first goal was. I know. 

[00:28:33] Speaker: No idea. I had no idea none, so I can't wait to hear what you tell me. 

[00:28:37] Speaker 2: Did you have a crush on this person, Andy Gibb?[00:28:40] 

[00:28:40] Speaker: Oh, I did 

[00:28:42] Speaker 2: not have a crush, so I, I had a crush on Andy Gibb. Andy Gibb was coming in concert to Fort Lauderdale and I had a crush on Andy Gibb, [00:28:50] and so I had made a poster that if I slept in my bed for five nights, I would get. Andy Gibb [00:29:00] poster for my room. Now my mom's an interior designer. Was not big.

[00:29:02] Speaker: Just a poster. Just a poster. 

[00:29:05] Speaker 2: Well, you didn't, you, 

[00:29:07] Speaker: you didn't ask for the concert. 

[00:29:09] Speaker 2: Oh, I, [00:29:10] I ultimately got the concert, but I, it was starting with like little posters, like little, little wi little wins. Okay. Which, you know, that's actually. To weave in [00:29:20] sparkler society, we are talking about a 14 day challenge where we're gonna do kind of the same thing, little wins 'cause little wins matter.

[00:29:26] Speaker 2: Little wins build up to big changes. So [00:29:30] I was getting these little wins, but, but the thing about my little wins that a lot of. They didn't know, um, was I'm a very [00:29:40] creative problem solver, so they had told me that, um, with my poster that if I slept in my bed, meaning my parents found me [00:29:50] asleep in my own bed, I put the star on the poster.

[00:29:55] Speaker 2: Okay. You know, challenge accepted. I [00:30:00] would, uh, wait till my parents fell asleep. I would sneak in with my comforter and I would sleep at the foot of their bed, [00:30:10] and I would wake up before they woke up. I would sneak back into my room, pretend to be asleep so I could get my little gold stars. 

[00:30:18] Speaker: Oh, 

[00:30:19] Speaker 2: so totally, [00:30:20] totally cheating.

[00:30:21] Speaker 2: Totally not facing whatever I needed to face. And then it kind, it, it got to a point where like, one time I just slept a little [00:30:30] too long and my dad tripped over me. The gig, the gig was up, you know, they, they tripped over me and they found me. So then I turned to my [00:30:40] sister. To be like, I will, you know, you tell me if you want a poster, and I'll put on that, that on my goal board, and if you let me sleep in [00:30:50] your room, then you'll get a poster.

[00:30:52] Speaker 2: So, we'll, we'll all be working the system together. So if you let me sleep with you, I, if you let me sleep with you and all of that. Now, um, [00:31:00] I would say, you know, and I can say this upfront. I don't think she was the nicest sister. Um, I think my energy was something that, um, [00:31:10] you know, I imagine she didn't understand and kind of might've been jealous of all my activities.

[00:31:14] Speaker 2: Who knows? But, um, she didn't allow me to sleep [00:31:20] with her in the bed. Um, she did have me sleep on the floor and then she would. She would put parameters around like what spots I was [00:31:30] allowed to sleep on, and then she would, you know, continuously threaten to turn me in. So I learned quickly that like she was, she was kind of [00:31:40] not to be trusted.

[00:31:41] Speaker 2: So instead, I would go and, and I would do the same process of go in there, sleep and then try to wake up before she'd catch [00:31:50] me. And then our, you know, all of our initial agreements of posters, you know, I, I put a stop to that. So, I mean, we're talking kindergarten, first grade that I'm like, problem [00:32:00] solving this.

[00:32:01] Speaker 2: So. After a while, my parents are like, she's gone through like three posters. Okay. It's, she's [00:32:10] just getting more creative about getting stars. Like this is, this is not real accountability. This is just somebody being a strategic problem solver [00:32:20] and we're having all the same problems. She's falling asleep during the day.

[00:32:24] Speaker 2: She's keeping us awake at night. She's. Entertaining us till 11 or 12 o'clock [00:32:30] at night, so we can't get to sleep. So that again, the nights are shorter. Um, so they, I think they switched [00:32:40] doctors, so they went to some other doctor and the new Vogue became hypnosis. 

[00:32:46] Speaker: Hmm. 

[00:32:47] Speaker 2: Like they were going to [00:32:50] hypnotize me.

[00:32:50] Speaker 2: Now, you know, looking back on it, it's kind of scary that somebody's gonna hypnotize your second. You know, or you know, at that point [00:33:00] I was in the second grade that somebody's gonna like do something like that. 'cause it seems like they could insert thoughts that maybe I didn't have. Like that's a very vulnerable place to be at second [00:33:10] grade.

[00:33:10] Speaker 2: Um, and I don't really even recall a lot of it, but I know it didn't last long because we moved on to the next one. [00:33:20] Um, and we moved on to the next one and the next one, like, I don't remember. Remember any doctor that like made it through my [00:33:30] parents' trials and like they wanted, they wanted to see real results.

[00:33:34] Speaker 2: They were not just gonna throw good money after bad. That's my dad saying all the time, don't go, don't throw good [00:33:40] money after bad. So, um, so it was a, it was a series and then, you know, people were like, some people were like, well now we have to [00:33:50] bring the whole family in. So now they were starting to bring my dad and my mom and my sister in to try to rally around me to solve me.[00:34:00] 

[00:34:00] Speaker 2: Um, and that just wasn't working either. And, um, 

[00:34:05] Speaker: yeah, I wanna, I wanna interrupt that too. One of the things that I've learned again is, you know, most of us go to [00:34:10] therapy, um, us I'm gonna say most of us, a lot of us who have trauma in our lives have, or anxiety have at some point found themselves in therapy.

[00:34:18] Speaker: And what I've learned [00:34:20] is therapy's great for the trauma for, you know, the, the. The things that you have to get through, but it doesn't really help the A DHD, that's where [00:34:30] medication, occupational therapy and coaching come into play. Um, and so of course, if they're not taking care of the A DHD, the therapy isn't gonna do anything [00:34:40] about it.

[00:34:40] Speaker: So I just wanted to kind of put that in there. 

[00:34:42] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the only thing that, um, you know, some of the tools that stuck with me, um, from the beginning [00:34:50] was I obviously love rewards, right? Like, like everybody said, okay, well that kind of worked, right? That one we're gonna kind of stay with every, every [00:35:00] child psychologist I went to all the way up to seventh grade stuck with that methodology.

[00:35:05] Speaker 2: And then the second methodology that they stuck with that still sticks with me today, um, [00:35:10] is journaling. Like what is in her head? Like if she wakes up in the middle of the night and she has a nightmare, what is in, what is the story she's telling herself? Mm-hmm. And then let's [00:35:20] get that story out of her head and in the journal, and let's get her sort of giving context to that story, which I think you've, you've brought up several times.

[00:35:28] Speaker 2: Like, what is the [00:35:30] story you're telling yourself? Like, what, why are, are you telling yourself to worry? 

[00:35:35] Speaker: Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:35] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. What's the world worry? 

[00:35:38] Speaker: Journaling is, [00:35:40] I'm gonna say yes. That, that it is a very effective way to reflect and get it out because we have, I mean, that's one of the things we spend so much time avoiding our feelings, um, and what they say [00:35:50] is, we need to feel our feelings, like let them pass and observe.

[00:35:53] Speaker: And so that, that was really innovative and yeah. So, oh, okay. So keep going because this is, I'm, like I said, I've not heard this [00:36:00] and we've been friends for 30 something years. 

[00:36:03] Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean, it could open up a lot of questions and you know, and I don't know if we're on a time constraint because I will try to speed up or, [00:36:10] or give you the fun facts, 

[00:36:11] Speaker: but this is, this is what I've decided about the link.

[00:36:13] Speaker: 'cause my, my podcast with Dr. Goodman went past an hour and he said, do you wanna cut it? You wanna do two parts? I'm like, here's what [00:36:20] I think. If somebody wants to hear the podcast and it's too long for them, they can pause. Take a pause and come back to it. I mean, I, I never complete an entire [00:36:30] podcast in one sitting.

[00:36:30] Speaker: I, you know, I'll do it and then I'll go back to it. So, um, I guess there's something to the rhythm of, you know, you want more viewership or, you know, so maybe keep it, people [00:36:40] hanging on. Just go, we'll just, just go. I don't wanna, 

[00:36:43] Speaker 2: well, I mean, maybe it'll resonate for somebody or maybe there's somebody else that like kind of went on the same journey [00:36:50] that I did, you know, in the seventies, um, and eighties because, you know, we are talking about, you know, 50 and.

[00:36:57] Speaker 2: And older, the thi these were the tools that [00:37:00] were available. That's just what was available. I mean, this is what my parents had to work with. Um, I appreciate that. My parents were not anti therapy, you know, I [00:37:10] don't think that everybody was super like, let's send kids to therapy like they kind of are now.

[00:37:15] Speaker 2: So, I mean, I really kind of applaud my parents for saying. [00:37:20] My mom, especially for, for finally throwing in the towel that she couldn't fix me. So, um, 

[00:37:26] Speaker: I, I wanna interrupt you. Speaking of that, your experience of therapy. Yeah. So my experience [00:37:30] of therapy was very different back in the days when we were growing up.

[00:37:34] Speaker: If you had to go to the principal's office for something or, or whatever, you got a referral. Do you remember [00:37:40] that? 

[00:37:40] Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. 

[00:37:41] Speaker: Okay. So when my mom was at the doctor, he gave her a referral. To a therapist, so [00:37:50] I had a negative connotation of therapy. Um, and so I didn't, I went through therapy as well. I remember starting at least in second grade, [00:38:00] but, but it was negative for me.

[00:38:02] Speaker 2: Oh, oh. You know, it was funny how much I sold it as being so awesome that some of my friends in Fort [00:38:10] Lauderdale were like, can I come with you? Like, I wanna see the toys. I wanna see like you've got all these cool posters. Like my parents aren't like. All that [00:38:20] into me having stuff on my walls. So, um, so we ended up moving from Fort Lauderdale to Jacksonville, um, around the [00:38:30] third grade.

[00:38:30] Speaker 2: Fourth grade, third, fourth grade. So now we're starting with a whole new fresh line of therapists. And this is where we meet the [00:38:40] therapist and this woman was a saint and she specialized in children and she had a love for it. You know, when somebody just loves their job. 

[00:38:49] Speaker: [00:38:50] Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:50] Speaker 2: You know how you can just feel like when a nurse just loves what they do and they're just taking care of you and in, in every way you can possibly imagine.

[00:38:58] Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. This was my [00:39:00] final therapist and I still remember her name, but I'm not gonna say it 'cause I don't know if she's still around. 

[00:39:04] Speaker: Well, you could say a name of a therapist, because you know what? I also moved to Jacksonville a year after you did and also went to therapy in [00:39:10] Jacksonville. And I'm just wondering Mi mention the name 

[00:39:12] Speaker 2: was Jamie 

[00:39:14] Speaker: Lynn.

[00:39:15] Speaker: Yeah, you just froze. [00:39:20] Okay, so we are going to end the podcast right here because we just had a technical issue, which is so funny because Lynn is the technical guru of, um, all [00:39:30] of my friends. 

[00:39:30] Speaker 2: Oh no. Oh no, it froze. Yeah. 

[00:39:34] Speaker: I kept talking. We'll see, we'll see what happens. But anyway, go. I asked you the name of the therapist 'cause I was in therapy as well in [00:39:40] Jacksonville.

[00:39:42] Speaker 2: All right. Um, 

[00:39:46] Speaker: yeah, not working. We're gonna have to end the podcast and do a part [00:39:50] two. So, um, if all right, you'll just have to tune in for the next week for part two.[00:40:00] 

[00:40:00] Speaker 2: Uh.