Episode 84 - ADHD & Downsizing

In this episode of Grandma Has ADHD, Jami Shapiro switches things up and sits in the guest seat as she’s interviewed by her longtime friend Lynn.

With National Organizing Month as the backdrop, this conversation explores the powerful intersection between ADHD and organizing, especially when it comes to downsizing, decluttering, and navigating a lifetime of belongings.

Jami shares her personal experiences, professional insights, and practical strategies for making organizing more manageable, not by forcing perfection, but by working with the ADHD brain instead of against it.

What You’ll Learn

• The difference between organizing, decluttering, downsizing, and “right-sizing”
• Why traditional organizing methods often don’t work for ADHD brains
• How “out of sight, out of mind” impacts clutter and decision-making
• Why decluttering must come before organizing
• The concept of “DOOM piles” (Didn’t Organize, Only Moved)
• How to use constraints and systems to reduce overwhelm
• Why labeling and visibility can make a big difference
• How to make organizing more engaging through gamification and creativity
• The emotional side of clutter, including shame, avoidance, and overwhelm
• How ADHD shows up differently than hoarding disorder

Why This Matters

For many adults, especially those diagnosed later in life, clutter isn’t about laziness or lack of effort. It’s about how the ADHD brain processes decisions, attention, and follow-through.

Understanding this can shift the narrative from frustration to clarity and help create systems that actually work.

About the Host

Jami Shapiro is an ADHD coach, speaker, and founder of Silver Linings Transitions. Through her podcast Grandma Has ADHD, she brings awareness to ADHD in older adults, especially women, helping listeners better understand their brains and navigate life with more clarity and compassion.

Resources

Silver Linings Transitions

National Association of Senior & Specialty Move Managers (NASMM): https://www.nasmm.org

Institute for Challenging Disorganization (ICD)
This Explains So Much by Jami Shapiro

Watch Jami tour her mom’s home and talk about clutter, ADHD, and how it differs from hoarding disorder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hrfn_szhqo 

Links & Support

Website: https://www.jamishapiro.me

Silver Linings Transitions: Support for downsizing, organizing, and life transitions

Book: This Explains So Much by Jami Shapiro

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Thank you for joining us for this episode of Grandma Has ADHD! We hope Jami's journey and insights into ADHD shed light on the unique challenges faced by older adults. Stay tuned for more episodes where we’ll explore helpful resources, share personal stories, and provide guidance for those navigating ADHD. Don’t forget to subscribe and share this podcast with friends who might benefit. Remember, Make the rest of your life the best of your life.

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Transcript

[00:00:15] Jami: Hi, I'm Jami Shapiro, and welcome to Grandma Has ADHD. I'm a certified senior move manager and owner of Silver Linings Transitions, where I help people navigate life's big transitions. But here's the thing. I spent years helping families move through change while completely missing the pattern that was running through my own life.

I'm the daughter of two ADHD parents, the mother of three ADHD children, and yep, I have ADHD too. For years, I didn't have the language or understanding for what that meant. But becoming an ADHD coach and specialist, that's been absolutely game-changing, not just for how I work with my clients, but for how I relate to my family and honestly, for how I understand myself.

I even wrote a book about it called This Explains So Much. This podcast is for all of us who are discovering ADHD later in life. Each week, I bring you conversations with industry experts and people sharing their own ADHD journeys, real stories, real strategies, and often a little too much information. If you're loving what you're hearing, please share this podcast, leave us a review, and find me at jamishapiro.me.

That's J-A-M-I-S-H-A-P-I-R-O.me. Whether you're over 50 and just getting diagnosed or you're recognizing patterns you've lived with your whole life, this is your space to navigate ADHD with others who get it. So grab your coffee and get comfortable, and let's dive in.

Hey, here's a quick heads-up before we dive in. You may hear me mention the Sparkler Society in this episode, talking about it, it's happening right now. And here's the truth. My ADHD brain got so excited about this community that I may have jumped a little bit enthusiastically, a lot enthusiastically, before everything was actually ready.

Classic ADHD move, right? We know what that's like. So here's what's actually happening. We've hit pause to make sure the Sparkler Society launches the right way, because this is going to change lives, and I want it to be everything you deserve from day one. We're officially launching in July of 2026, and here's what you can look forward to: live group sessions every week, including support around decluttering and downsizing, body doubling, and ADHD group coaching.

We are also addressing some of the big challenges of ADHD: worrying, overspending, and starting crafts, only to lose steam. Membership in the Sparkler Society is going to save you from paying the ADHD tax. We're talking real dollars back in your pocket. And most importantly, we are building a community of women who want to get their shit together, together.

Here's the exciting part. We're starting a wait list right now at jamishapiro.me. That's J-A-M-I-S-H-A-P-I-R-O.me. And the VIPs who join early will get free access to shape the community before we officially launch in July. You'll help us build this thing together. So if you hear me talking about the Sparkler Society like it's happening tomorrow, just know it's coming in July, and it's going to be worth the wait.

Let's get to today's episode!

Welcome to a very special edition of Grandma Has ADHD. this is gonna be a little bit different. So national organizing month is coming up, or national organizing week or day, I don't know, but it's coming and because the work that I do with ADHD and organizing has such an intersection, I thought it would be a, a disappointment not to share, more about my expertise.

But I don't like to do it by myself. I don't like to do anything by myself. And so I invited my friend Lynn, which if you've heard the podcast before, you know she's my partner in crime on the Sparkler Society, and one of my best friends for 35 years, Lynn not 20, like you said in another podcast.

 and she is going to turn the tables and interview me for this podcast. So I'm gonna hand it all over to you now. 

[00:04:40] Lynn: Okay, just a introduction. Well, as you know, I, admire all the organizing and all the experience that you have. So this cross intersection's really good, but it's also really informative to me especially sort of representing those late diagnose or self-diagnose, ADHD doers.

[00:05:01] Jami: Ooh. Doers. Yeah, 

[00:05:04] Lynn: doers. So, okay. let's back up a little, a second here, right? we're talking about, going through life with ADHD and, as you kind of looked back on your life now with this new lens and also looking back on your life with your organization. As well organizational skills before you got all those skills.

what are you thinking about for the first time? What, how are you looking back and putting all your thoughts together on, on what now that you can see? You've got the lens on now. 

[00:05:40] Jami: I will say that trying to be organized. When you have ADHD and you don't have, the perfectionist tendency is literally like beating your head against a wall.

it is until you understand why, you just can't seem to get it together you just so, so understanding it has been game changing for me. And by the way, that is not to say that I still have it together and my house is completely organized and running efficiently, but it is to say that I know what I need to do to get it there if I choose to do that with my time.

But I also have recognized that. I need to keep my life as easy as possible. I wanna go back to something because, you said something and now of course my brain won't let it go. I love ADHD doer. Because that's, that is when you have ADHD, and you are like, Lynn and I are like, you go from thing to thing and project to project.

So we are doers and then we are incompletes. But I do, for the sake of the conversation, I think it's really important to, to define the difference between organizing, decluttering, downsizing, and right sizing. Because a lot of this audience and what makes. My, my area of interest or specialty different is that there are a lot of organizers who talk about ADHD what they, what there aren't is people who are specializing in downsizing in ADHD because we didn't, we have whole generations of women who didn't even know they had it, and now they're facing a lifetime of possessions and having to go through the process.

So first I'm gonna explain. What the difference is, but we are gonna focus more on organizing in today's conversation, but I at least wanna set the language, Downsizing is when you're going into a smaller space and you're eliminating things and it tends to have a negative connotation. So with the boomers, becoming seniors, they don't want to hear, downsizing.

They don't want to hear aging. And so we're now using the term right sizing, which to be honest, is a better, it's a better term because it is really, it is reflective of what the process should be. It's like identifying what. What is our life gonna look like and what are we going to need in that life that we're looking?

So I never liked cooking. It's never been something that I enjoyed. So if I am going to go through the process of right sizing, do I wanna bring all of the cooking stuff I know I'm not gonna need, right? So, and it's also for people at hd, it's easier to decide what you want then to go down the rabbit hole of what you're gonna do with everything that you don't want.

So that is downsizing and right sizing and then decluttering. So you, I am gonna hold that. You cannot get organized until you've decluttered. And how you declutter is gather like items together. You figure out how many spatulas do you need, how many,  how many of these things do you really need?

 I like to use the example of Coffee Cup when I do a presentation on downsizing or right sizing. it's the 80 20 rule, and I usually will ask the audience, how many of you drink coffee or tea every morning? And most people's hands will go up. And then I'll say, how many of you have a favorite mug?

And you'll see most people's hands go up. And then I'll say, how many of you'll wash that mug out to use it again? And you'll see hands go up. So we really don't use about 80% of what we have. And when you have ADHD, you don't even remember that you have it.  we 

[00:08:51] Lynn: don't, we have it, 

[00:08:52] Jami: right? so you wanna declutter, you wanna get rid of the obvious trash, the low emotional items, the things that are gonna be easier to let go of.

And then we step into organizing because I think that, one of the things that we heard at conference, and it was really well articulated, although I will say that it was in my original book, is that we need to have a, we need a boundaries. When you have ADHD, too much uncertainty is crazy. So one of the things that I talk about in my book is called the dining room table test.

So you clear off your dining room table and you only put the things on your dining room table that you love that you would grab in a fire. So I just decided what was important to me versus going through my whole home and trying to figure out what I was gonna do with everything. So that's a container.

Dana K White, who, she is a famous, organizer. And she talks about she has a bin that she keeps and that only what can fit in that bin is what she's gonna keep. So again, that's giving her a boundary, helping to make choices. Yeah. And then she says house is a boundary. If it's, if you Stanford and Sons and it extending outside of the house, you break, you're breaking the rule.

[00:09:58] Lynn: That's right. I did like that analogy of the container limitation because the other thing that a DH doers in my mind do really well is if you give us constraints, we can creatively think, in a way, if we don't have constraints, we are overwhelmed. it's possible that we are overwhelmed and that we can't get through moving on that.

 so again, be, before you knew you had ADHD and you're looking back what kind of, as you're looking back and if you could talk to that Jami. And tap her on the shoulder. What would you say as the kids are in the house? I think about Jami with children who did not know she had ADHD.

[00:10:44] Jami: So it's funny because I didn't answer your question, so I see that you took me back there. Thank you. I think back to my childhood actually, to begin with, because I was. When I moved with my mom, the only thing that I really ever got in trouble with was not being able to keep my room clean and I couldn't do it.

 and I can't tell you how many battles we went to, how much therapy we went to. and she tried everything, grounding me, okay, I'm just gonna close your door and I'm not gonna see it. And so that was my childhood. And, I would say in college I was better about the community areas because I didn't want my roommates to not like me, but my room would still look pretty bad.

And then honestly, when I got, when I was on my own living in my first apartment I actually felt like I had it together. But if you think about it, I had all of this space for myself, and so it was a lot easier to have a place for everything and I was dating and I was always ashamed of my clutter.

And so being able to have somebody come into my house and see, and always have my so, so that was the time in my life. I think I was the most proud of, having it together. But I did not have three children, and I didn't have a whole lot that I had to take care of. And then fast forward, and I remember you mentioned this, and then I saw it in a home video.

Laundry used to be, I would, if I, if I remember to take it outta the washing machine and then put it into the dryer, that was a miracle in and of itself. And then it would usually go from the dryer to the couch. And then I guess apparently, and now I'm remembering this, the laundry would just be on the couch and, and if I could plop a baby next to it and get to it, if that was my priority at the time, then I might get to it.

But I was the person that was always hiring the organizer thinking, this is gonna be the time, this is gonna be the time I get it together. I'm gonna, it's gonna be a blank canvas. And I, and here's the reality, Lynn. If you have a good organizer and this does make a difference, somebody that understands ADHD, they're going to give you systems.

So they're going to say, this is the bin that you put your, whatever in the batteries. This is the, this is where your keys come go when you come home. And so they're gonna give you the framework. Here's where it matters. Are you gonna like actually follow through? Are you going to, or are you gonna like fly through the house because you've got something else on your mind and then all of a sudden later becomes just another problem.

[00:13:03] Lynn: And that's where you have to know yourself. And as an ADHD person, you have to use your power. I call it our power skills. I guess that is, one of the ones that I think you, you talked about quite a lot is, habit stacking. And as we're talking about organizing, it's also like that organizing needs to be able to flow with kind of your normal habits.

Like creating a new habit is extremely hard. You talked about, sticking to a new habit. So if I have an organizer come in and they create these bins for batteries, but it's not in my habit that when I come across a battery. I go instead. I've actually found, it's funny you mention batteries because I've actually found, have you ever found batteries in one of your coat jackets?

Like, how do I get batteries in my coat jackets? And I'll tell you how it's because I'm using a flashlight and it doesn't work. And I dump the batteries out and I put them in my coat jacket. And I either think I'm gonna go to the store to get the replacements so that I have the right sizes, and then I might go to the store, get the replacements, and I never took them back out of my jacket.

So the next time I go into my jacket, boom, battery's found in my pocket. But sometimes I find batteries just everywhere. 

[00:14:18] Jami: I have another theory for you because you probably have such a strong sense of social justice like I do. You probably don't wanna just throw the battery away. You wanna make sure that it's disposed of properly, and so that means then you can't just throw it in the garbage.

You have to carry it around until you find, I actually do have a place in my house with a bag that says, bad for batteries. Just saying, 

[00:14:39] Lynn: all right. 

[00:14:41] Jami: Yeah, and that reminds me actually, when I create a label for something, when I take the time to create the label, I am more likely to remember that it exists.

Because one of the biggest challenges that we have is out of sight, out of mind. And so if I had to stop what I was doing and slow down and take the time to, so I love my label maker. In fact, my pantry right now, my, so we don't really have a pantry. we have a very small kitchen and we have four people living in the house.

And nothing was ever put back properly, which meant that all the food was going bad 'cause we didn't know we had it. And so I actually took the time to. Empty the pantry, and then I put labels and all of a sudden everybody knows where everything goes. And I remember, oh, I made that label. So there you 

[00:15:28] Lynn: go.

Oh, okay. So there's a takeaway now with organizational organizers. I take it, they help, they come in with the labels. They help with the labels? 

[00:15:39] Jami: Some do. Some do. Yeah. And I wanna just, I wanna clarify this. So there is professional help out there for people who want. To get organized. I'm biased because I'm part of two associations.

One is NASMM, which is the National Association of Senior and Specialty Move Managers. And that is an organization where we, our main thing that we do is move management, helping people with all of the logistics, everything that goes into a move. But a lot of what we do is. Organizing before the move and then organizing to put everything away.

So many of us in my company in San Diego and Coachella Valley, we do organizing. So if that's one industry, so if you're not in San Diego, but you want help, you can go to NASMM.org. but if you're in San Diego, my Silver Linings Transitions team is trained to work with ADHD. But the other one is called the Institute for Challenging Disorganization.

And that's how the whole ADHD thing came about for me when I was training. I knew that I had ADHD, but I'd done nothing with it. And when they had an ADHD specialty, I'm like I'll study this. Like that was really, I was not. Planning to go down this path. And then when I was listening to a podcast and I heard them talk about fibromyalgia and migraine headaches being common with people with ADHD, I called my mom and I said, Hey mom, you know that clutter that I've been calling hoarding?

I think you've got ADHD. and she did. And here we are. 

[00:17:06] Lynn: That kind of brings up the other thing too, right? It's interesting that some people will sometimes put a label on themselves in a joking, but serious kind of way is they'll say, oh gosh, don't come into my house because, I'm kind of a hoarder.

That explain to me, you know, these, you're, you're so good with the terminology, so explain to me sort of the difference between disorganization and hoarding and, and all the caveats in between that, because there is sort of this sliding scale and although people think they're being funny right?

They're like giving you like a little bit of a little disclaimer. There is differences. Yes. And there's different ways to manage that. 

[00:17:47] Jami: Yeah. So first of all, I'm gonna correct you. I used to also use the term hoarder, and now we use the term hoarding disorder and it has its own classification in the DSM and not everybody who has a lot of piles, like my mom, and I'm gonna use her as an example.

Has hoarding disorder, right? So what I used to believe, and I used to tell people that if you saw piles on furniture and the furniture or the rooms could not be used for their intended purpose, that person had hoarding disorder. And if you looked at the piles. There was some similarity. And by the way, it also exists on a spectrum, just like ADHD exists on a spectrum.

So there are people who are more impacted by clutter, and by the way, they're more impacted by clutter at different times in their lives. Like for instance, when you lose a family member and you're grieving them and they have all of their. Stuff, you're more likely to bring their stuff into your room, which is another thing that happened with my mom, because you're not prepared to go through it.

You don't wanna lose that loved one. And so there's a term I don't know if it's official, but it's called grief hoarding. So you're bringing in all of that, or maybe you've just had a baby and you don't have time to take care of it, and then the piles come up. So the difference between the piles.

Is how someone feels about those piles. So when you have ADHD, like we do, you might take on a craft project and you go out and you buy all of the crafts and you do it for five minutes, and then you lose interest and you move on to the next thing and you've left that, behind.

Or, because we tend to be out of sight, out of mind, we will leave things out as a visual reminder that we have it, or, later is a big one. For instance, if I'm hyper-focused on something and it's something that I really wanna get done if my body even tells me that I'm hungry, because, we, everything else goes away when we're in our hyperfocus mode, right?

But if I remember that I need to eat. Then the last thing I'm gonna wanna do is rinse the dish and put it in the dishwasher. I'm just gonna stack it in the sink, right? And so later becomes a deferred pile. And then my other favorite one is, two, one is the doom, which is didn't organize, only moved.

And I will, true confession, my desk not my pride and joy. I like to sit and work at my dining room table because it's just a prettier room and blah, blah, blah. But also. the doom pile. So basically you stack everything up and move it so that you don't have to deal with it 'cause you don't wanna make decisions.

Or my personal favorite is I'm about to have company come over and they need to think I've got my shit together. And so then I shove everything into closets and drawers and there you are. So that's ADHD. Hoarding is I have an unusual attachment to an item and I am going to have a visceral reaction to you coming in and touching my stuff.

So when my mom, I went to my mom and was visiting her and we were joking about all of this. Stuff. And I, by the way, I, I just wrote an article. I'm super excited about it. It came out in Attention magazine. And one of the things that I say towards the end of the article is that one of the reasons that it is fun to go back to my house is that I, my mom's house is, I find all of these memories that I don't even remember.

Like she, 'cause she's held onto everything, you know? And, I did this like 30 years ago, mom, but she still got the car, so that is kind of fun. And, you know, she still hasn't, gotten to the, I'm. I'm still gonna use it one day, but if I go to my mom and I say, Hey mom, I'm gonna come over and we're gonna organize and start going through your things.

How do you feel about that? And my mom and actually did a video about it. You can find it on YouTube. And I'll see if we can get the link into this. She says, thrilled. She's overwhelmed and she doesn't know where to begin. Now, if you go to somebody who truly has hoarding disorder and you say, I'm gonna come over and touch your stuff, they're gonna get physically sick.

So they are going to have a much more challenging time with the discard and. One of the things that I say is, I mean, there are ways to work with people with hoarding disorder. You'd have to start in a cold environment. It's very similar to the way that you would work with someone who has OCD. and I know about OCD and their, and I think that I'm not a doctor, but I think that there tends to be more of a link between hoarding disorder and OCD.

 and I have a child with OCD and a good example that I like to use is that when she was, and by the way, Anxiety spirals at different times. So if you're, if things are going really well, you probably aren't gonna have all of those, really bad hoard, OCD tendencies and when you're feeling out of control, you're gonna wanna control something.

So she was about to start her last semester of her senior year of college and she was spiraling. She was just really upset about what that meant. And so I actually had to fly to her college to sort of like go, I call it momming her up. And I, we went to do her laundry 'cause she hadn't gotten her laundry done.

And we're in the laundromat and she says to me, you have to make sure my socks match because if my socks don't match, something bad will happen to the family. Do you understand? Like she is an unusual attachment, right? So you can see where someone who has, and again, she has OCD, she's the only one in my three children that's been diagnosed where she has, she makes a relationship with a thing.

So if you have a relationship with a thing, then you've got a relationship with a lot of things. If you have hoarding disorder there's a reason that you're holding onto it, right? And so the way that my daughter's OCD was treated is called exposure therapy. I like to use this example 'cause my mom actually has a huge phobia of lizards and living in Florida, that lizards are everywhere.

Oh yeah. She would avoid being outside. So exposure therapy was, she goes into the therapist's office and they just talk about lizards. That's all they do. They just talk about them. Yeah. And the next time she has to look at a picture of lizard. And she's still feeling all of those feelings and then the next time she has to put her hand on the picture of the lizard.

 So it's exposure. She's getting exposed to it that's the best way to work with people with OCD is they need, like from what I've been told, like a 12 to 18 month runway with therapy and slowly. Going through the process, starting with the obvious trash and the low hanging fruit, and the things that don't have the emotional attachment and building up a tolerance.

But my daughter said, it's very, very uncomfortable to do exposure therapy. It's not like, oh, go. It's not like easy therapy. 

[00:23:59] Lynn: Right. Yeah. Oh no, I imagine that. it's building, yeah, it's building that muscle, which is never, is never easy. That's why, I've always wanted to be that super duper organized mom, wife, and I never achieved I never gave myself an a plus. I have, I've always been border lining on, just about to fail again. Okay. Like, just about to fail again. Every time that I, I thought that I was about to get out of the C area and give myself a b plus I would squirrel.

And my systems would collapse upon themselves. And I never understood really why. And I was like, is it the calendar? Is it the, is it the paper? what is bringing me down? And I never thought, ever that it was in here. I always thought that it was the systems that I was choosing, and I wasn't thinking about the way that I'm wired.

So now as you're bringing it to my attention that we have to start thinking about the way that we're wired and then apply that to organizational strategies, like organizational strategies that sort of work for the way we're wired. So can you give me one of those off the top of your head, like just one that's just so like, is so perfect for the ADHD wired brain.

[00:25:30] Jami: Yes. So keeping in mind that, but when you have ADHD, we have an interest driven brain, which means that we are going to ch anything that interests us, no problem. But if we are not interested in it, we're going to struggle to start it, to do it, to move away from the thing that interests us. So I find gamifying.

Task. I like to do time lapses where I have a before and after and then I set the camera up and I watch myself, go and do it. That is a fun one. Or, okay, I'm gonna do a streak. I'm gonna do 10 minutes a day for the next, seven days. And by the way, we really like rewards.

I think that, give yourself, I'm going to earn this. That, so we, so this actually, I wasn't planning to go here, but it's the perfect place to bring it in. In ADHD there's a term called sparklize, and that is making something boring, seem fresh. So an example of that is when I was studying to become a certified senior advisor, I had, it was the first

true test that I was taking since discovering that I had ADHD. And so I got the different color highlighters and the different color pens to take notes so that I was spark izing the assignment. and the reason that I said that's such a good entry is that I do wanna share what I'm really excited about, which is the Sparkler society that you and I are doing together.

And I'm calling it the let's get our shit together. And and part of it is going to be, our mindset and, reframing how we feel about ourselves and, looking at our lives now that we have this new understanding. But a lot of us, and I wanna say this, I have ADHD friends who are perfectionists.

And they know exactly where everything is. And it's almost like somebody who has an eating disorder. They the discipline it helps them to cope. And so not everybody with ADHD is going to struggle with clutter and not everybody who has clutter has ADHD. So I wanna make sure that I make that distinction.

But, it is definitely going to be something that we're gonna be helping people with. 

[00:27:32] Lynn: As you were talking about the sparkle lies, I was like, how fun would it be for me to put on my wedding dress and organize something like put just. There, there needs to be a purpose for my wedding dress.

And where this creative idea sort of came from is house of Peaches. She had a whole party with all of her girlfriends where they put their wedding dresses on. But if you're dressed up, I think you've also, I think in your book, I think you may have mentioned like a hat. I have so many hats.

I think a hat that, like when I put that hat on, that hat is okay, I'm being fabulous, but I also like, the time lapse that you talked about. So now I could be wearing a wedding, dress, a hat, and do the time lapse. 

[00:28:22] Jami: You could also do a reel. You could also, say, Hey guys, the thing I I hate more than anything is organizing.

Watch me do it. And so that is also gonna give you the dopamine. 

[00:28:33] Lynn: Yeah. Yeah. So all of these creative ideas, I'd love to see if somebody else, would post or respond back to you and give you, maybe what they crazy thing that they do. Maybe they, 

[00:28:44] Jami: when we post this, we'll ask what's the thing that gets you motivated?

What's the craziest thing? And maybe we'll have people send pictures or, 

[00:28:50] Lynn: yeah. And I'm happy to. To join them. I'm happy to do it or take one of their ideas. So 

[00:28:57] Jami: I wanna see you. Wait, I wanna see you put that wedding dress on and do some organizing. It's a challenge. 

[00:29:01] Lynn: Yeah. The part, that's gonna be hard is, I have to make sure I have a lot of duct tape so I can bend over and I'm not losing my dress on a reel. I don't think anybody wants to see that. I don't think anybody wants to see me lose my dress. I think I could put like I think I can get about halfway up. I don't know, Jami. I don't know.

[00:29:19] Jami: Well, maybe put on like a body suit or like a, an undershirt or something, and then just wear however it fits. 

[00:29:26] Lynn: Oh, yeah. That's a good idea. see, working together helps the idea sort of flush itself out Okay, so we're talking about. Doing, I'm gonna go back to the 10 minute one, which I like.

It's time boxed, it's quick. Your dopamine's coming quickly. You can see the results. If someone is saying to you I don't have the time. Or or more importantly, if someone comes to you and says my parent has ADHD. How do I work with them to do Right sizing and organizing? 

[00:30:10] Jami: Okay, I can speak to this one.

[00:30:12] Lynn: Yes, you can. I know you can because you have 

[00:30:15] Jami: Lynn seen. Lynn has seen my mom's house, so she knows that I am not exaggerating. and I used to avoid my mom's house because it caused me. So much like anxiety to be in that confined space. Because by the way, I wanna say that clutter can be visual pollution, it can overwhelm people.

 and they've done a lot of studies on that. Clutter raises cortisol levels and that's the stress hormone. And so it's a thing. I'm not making it up. but we also, people have different clutter, tolerance levels and some people, it just doesn't bother them the same way. And I will also say. I lost my train of thought and we're gonna have to fudge it until, okay, we, let's pause.

'cause what happens with a d, adhd, I'm gonna just say this to everybody. You have it, it goes away. You know it's gonna come back. You just don't know when it's gonna come back, okay? So let's, this is actually a perfect time to pause because, I always like to insert, I, as I share, this is a labor of love.

This podcast, it's for me to have the opportunity to share what I'm learning to make your life better. But I have bills to pay and, and so I'm gonna pause it. I'm gonna hope I'm gonna get some more water too, and I'm gonna hope that it comes back to me. So we're gonna take a pause.

[00:31:35] Jami: I used to dread visiting my mother because of the clutter. The piles, the chaos. We all experienced clutter differently. For me, it was a source of anxiety and stress. I'd try to help and she'd get defensive. We were both frustrated and it was destroying our relationship. Then we discovered something that changed everything.

My mother had a DHD, and she'd been living with it undiagnosed for over 76 years. Suddenly it all made sense. The clutter wasn't laziness. The disorganization wasn't a choice. Her brain was wired differently and no amount of willpower or traditional organizing advice was ever going to work. That discovery became my life's work.

It's why I started. The grandma has a DHD podcast. It's why I became an A DHD coach and specialist, and it's why I am so passionate about helping women like my mother and maybe like you, because here's what I know, clutter affects us emotionally and physically. It damages relationships, it creates shame, spirals, and the overwhelm of not knowing where to start keeps you frozen.

But it's okay to ask for help. In fact, it's brave. If you are in the San Diego or Coachella Valley area, my team at Silver Linings Transitions can come to your home. We'll help you tackle the clutter with compassion, not judgment. I also work with women virtually through one-on-one A DHD coaching, and if you are overwhelmed with clutter.

I can connect you with trusted resources in your area. Visit Jamie shapiro.me to get started or grab my book. This explains so much on Amazon. My mother and I got our relationship back. You can get your piece back too. That's J-A-M-I-S-H-A-P-I-R o.me.

Moving can feel overwhelming. Whether you are downsizing, relocating, or helping a loved one transition. There are so many decisions to make, details to handle and emotions to navigate. At silver linings, transitions, we believe every move should be magical, not stressful. We are more than movers. We expertly guide you through the entire process and do our best to alleviate your concerns.

From the moment we meet, you'll feel comfortable because we will listen to your needs and wants and work together to create a personalized plan. That honors your memories and your cherished belongings while helping you embrace your next chapter. We visit your new space and create a detailed floor plan, ensuring your furniture and treasure belongings will fit safely.

We handle the logistics so you don't need to worry about anything from sorting and packing to coordinating the sale and donation of unwanted items. Our professional team uses efficient, eco-friendly bins and handles. Every detail. With care, we coordinate with our vetted moving partners, oversee the logistics, and ensure nothing is left behind even packing your refrigerator items.

Here's where the magic happened. We don't just unpack, we recreate the feeling of home using photos from your previous space. We thoughtfully arrange your furniture, hang your pictures, and set up your kitchen and bathroom so everything feels familiar from day one. When you walk into your new space, it's not just moved in it's home.

Your coffee pot is ready. Your favorite photos are perfectly placed, your bed is made, and your new chapter begins with comfort and joy instead of chaos. This is how silver linings transitions, makes, moves magical. We handle the emotional lifting and the logistics so you can focus on what matters most settling into your new home, because every move deserves a silver lining.

Hi, I'm Jamie Shapiro. I am an A DHD coach and the founder of Silver Linings Transitions, where we do home organizing and move management. And you know, I did not know that I had a DHD for years, and I remember personally hiring an organizing company to come in and help me because I could just never get it together.

And it really wasn't until I understood. A DHD and its impact that I realized why, and so I wrote a book. This explains so much understanding undiagnosed A DHD, because I just feel like there's so many answers that people don't even know that they're looking for, especially generations of women who. Grew up thinking that A DHD was just for the hyperactive little boy.

It turns out it's not only a body that can be hyperactive, but it can be a mind that's hyperactive. So you can have a wonderful day and you can have something wonderful happen. And then that one negative thing that happens is gonna be that thing that takes you into that spiral and it's gonna be keeping you up at night and you're gonna be ruminating on it.

And I think that, you know, we as women carry. So much shame and so much how it's supposed to be. I'm supposed to have it together and I remember that was the case for me. I, I remember how is it that all of these women have so much consistency and their kids get the sticker charts and everything seems to run well and I'm the one that's missing parent teacher conferences and my house, you know, is always in chaos.

And, and then again, that negative self-talk. So I, my mission is really to educate people who have no idea that A DHD has the impact that it does. And it's to connect you to other people who get it and who will make you feel that you aren't alone, you're not crazy, you're not lazy, you're not stupid, you're not too much.

You just have a brain that was wired differently and I can't wait for you to join me in the community that I'm building. The workshops that I'm creating, the book club that I'm hosting, because I know that I am going to make a profound difference in your life.

[00:38:26] Jami: I am back.

And of course, as soon as I hit the pause button, I'm like, oh, I remember what I was gonna say. And that is that, have you ever gone into someone's home that has a pet and it wreaks like the moment you get there and you can just smell the pet? 

[00:38:39] Lynn: I'm hoping it's not my house. 

[00:38:41] Jami: It's not. 

[00:38:42] Lynn: Okay.

You 

[00:38:44] Jami: know what I'm saying? 

[00:38:45] Lynn: Yeah. Oh, no, absolutely. Absolutely. I think the 

[00:38:48] Jami: same thing is true with clutter. And so people start to live with it. They don't see it anymore. back to the original question, my mom's clutter drives me insane. And I avoided being in my mom's home for years. And when I discovered that my mom had ADHD.

And knowing that I have ADHD and that it presents very differently. I now give my mom the same grace I'm giving to myself, and now we just laugh about it. it certainly helps that I have, I've written a book and I have a podcast, but it's also really, it's it, I'm, I've just twisted the narrative about it.

It's not that my mom is lazy, it's finally oh, her brain works the same way that mine does. I will say this about being organized. And I have, I've been on every, I've never had a hoarding issue, but I absolutely have had furniture that couldn't be used for its intended purposes.

You've been in my house, you've been seeing some of the couches when I was, especially when I had young children. And that is that when you are organized and what you have and where you can go to find it. There's this like inner you're so proud, which is so sad by the way that we have to associate how we feel about ourselves with that.

 but not having to go looking for things is also just, it's more peaceful. 

[00:40:02] Lynn: I can tell you, I can tell you. Two, two times where it becomes really interesting at parties as guests arrive with, usually a, a dish. most of my friends will arrive with a dish to a party and the first thing they ask you when they go into the kitchen is, where is.

Like a pie cutter or, where is this? And what's always interesting to me is it's not until what I did last week, which was the first time I had actually organized my kitchen, that I found all my pie cutters. But I will tell you that when they would ask me in that moment with, with people coming in the house and it just my h my kitchen not being organized and being able to know that was the place where I stored my pie cutters.

I would be like first drawer, second drawer, third drawer, or the fifth drawer. I, one of those drawers. And of course people would open up my disorganized drawers and they wouldn't find it. And then three days later after the party, I would not find just one. I would find all my five pie cutters, but the party was over.

It's just like the last time I had people over was when I did that crucial. You remember I told youI built up my deadlines like so much you and I came back from the conference. I went to Disney World and I actually, we had some bugs, so I had to take everything out of my kitchen cabinets boom, boom.

And then I had a party two days later, but. I will say at that party, they walked in and I was ready. I was like, ask me. Ask me where a knife is. Ask me. Ask me where The cute little spoons, I found all the cute little spoons you kind of put like in the sauces. Ask. 

[00:41:51] Jami: These are things that 

[00:41:51] Lynn: I've purchased for years and never used.

[00:41:55] Jami: Yep. And that's an ADHD tax. How do you think it would have been for you if you had, or do still do it, go back and make labels for all of the, even they have to be on the outside of the drawer for, so that you know where it is. Do you think that would help you? 

[00:42:10] Lynn: I do, but I will say that for some reason.

Making labels is, feels like a monotonous task for me. I don't know how I would make making labels be fun, although I do think that they've come out with some really great ones lately. Oh, I remember, I think I, I associate making labels with like, back in the day when you had to like keep files at your work and you, you know.

And making all those labels for the file cabinets that I'm like but I know, is there something out there? Maybe there is a product out there that you think makes Sparkle realizes the label making process. 

[00:42:48] Jami: Well, I have a label maker, but I am sure that there are even more fun label makers. So that might be one of the things that when we get to that we find some really cool, like sparkly, tape or whatever.

But, um, no, but I, the next time I visit you, Lynn, I'm coming with my label maker 'cause I love to make labels, but you like technology and I can't stand it. So there just goes to show you meet one A-D-H-D-A-D-H-D or doer Do. One a DH doer. A DH. Do I love that, by the way. I think we just coined something.

[00:43:20] Lynn: Yeah. A DH doer. So, okay. So now okay. We have to talk about, we have to talk about seniors and safety with clutter and ADHD. So, because your experience with seniors and now we are heading there. We are the new, we are the, we're the young seniors. And as you say, I'm 56. I'm 56, not 50, and you remind me of that, but I'm like, mentally I'm still 25, but whatever, whatever.

[00:43:51] Jami: But no, I'm glad you brought up safety because here is the thing and it's the reality like. When we age, it's gonna be harder to recover from a fall. And the, the older we are, the more difficult and, clutter can be an impediment to your walking safely in your home, right?

So that's one reason not to have clutter. But, they say that people who have hoarded homes are more likely to die in. Fire. than, and I don't, I'm not saying that's how they're most likely to die, but I know that they're not going to be saved if, and I have heard news stories of it, here in San Diego where the fire department can't get into the home because.

They can't make safe passage and, so that and then not to mention the rodents and the other, the, impact on your physical health with allergies and dust. And then again clutter is a lot of decisions that your brain has to make. And I will say that when I'm in an environment that doesn't have a lot of stuff, I feel calmer.

[00:44:56] Lynn: Okay. And, of course we're gonna, the other thing too is, hopefully when we get our grandchildren, which I'm hoping for, I, I don't want to be the grandma that's worried that, the grandkids are going to topple over a whole pile of things. And then I'm gonna spend a majority of my time.

Picking up the things when I'd rather spend my time with the people and the loved ones in my house. And you kind of mentioned, earlier you didn't wanna go over to your mom's house because, the environment felt stressful. And it's like, if you wanna. Pay attention and get the most out of your experiences with your kids when they visit, because now they come for shorter visits.

You don't wanna spend your time being being the person that's just cleaning the whole time or moving things the whole time so that you guys can have. A game night hold on, let me clear out my dining room table. Do you know, you knew we had a pool table growing up, right? Did you know I had a, you, so we had a pool table growing up and when I was younger, 

My mom would use it to stack all of her catalogs for her interior design. So she would use the pool table as her office. Okay. And so when we had friends come over that wanted to actually play pool, they were like, wow, you have a pool table and in your house. That's amazing, right? They'd get the pool sticks, but then there was this whole process.

Where we had to oh, we gotta move all the catalogs, we gotta find the balls in the pockets, we gotta take the pen, and all of that. which also, we would stack the catalogs, which, people would step on. And so, and clutter and clutter continues. And continued and we found a lot of those catalogs when my mom passed away.

the catalogs and the clutter. Is something that I'm aware of that I don't wanna leave to my children. I have a feeling that my children are not going to be interested in some of my catalogs or some of the things that I have held onto. And so I'm trying to start to make those kind of decisions now.

[00:47:09] Jami: So 

[00:47:09] Lynn: talk about a legacy. Yeah, let's talk about a legacy. I know this is, we're on a, we're on a very, we're on a dark subject, but I do think that this next generation where they're nomads in a way, they wanna live in a lot of different places. I think that they're not quite as sentimental, maybe as our generation is.

And I think that's something that us with our special brains need to think about. 

[00:47:35] Jami: Yes, that's true, but that's also true for Neurotypicals. our children are living in vans. They're realizing that stuff like my kids don't want a lot of stuff. They, they don't want to buy fast fashion, so they're thrifting their clothing.

They also don't want our used furniture. We did not. Our children did not grow up the way that we did, so we don't live near our grandparents the way that we used to. We're not having the big Sunday night dinners. So the China and the Crystal doesn't mean what it used to mean. I, when I went through my divorce I gave my China away.

None of my kids wanted it, and, and I didn't sell it because it's also hard to sell. Because so many people are, are downsizing right sizing and our generations are so different. But I'm glad you brought up the legacy. So a legacy isn't always stuff. It can be a funny video that you made, with your grandparent or your grandchild.

It can be a show and tell. I, I did a show and tell with my kids I've actually had the. The privilege of, right sizing. Several times I moved from Florida to California, which involved a right size and that, and I had to go to like half the space and I didn't, I couldn't bring everything.

And then I got a divorce and I had to rightsize again. So I was able to go through my things and at that point I was about to be, the first child was gonna be leaving the nest. And so I did a show and tell with a lot of the things that I had brought with me from Florida. They didn't want my old girl scout sash and my prom corsage, 

Or my old retainer. so I was able to photograph that and let it go. keep in mind that when I've noticed. Three reactions happen when there's a death with a family member. One is the family calls gets the U-Haul and they just say, take it. I don't know what it is and take it 'cause I don't wanna deal with it.

One of it is a war, which is what happened with my aunt and my four cousins who descended on her belongings and never spoke again. And by the way, these are true stories. Or the other scenario is with my mom who wasn't prepared to deal with my grandmother's belongings. Because she didn't wanna make those decisions and she just took everything and it first went into storage.

Then when she wasn't going through it in storage, my uncle's I'm not paying for this anymore. It's coming into your house. going through your own belongings is a gift that you can give to your loved ones. Have those really, honest conversations with yourself. Like, do I really need to keep this?

Could I photograph it and keep it? Could I give it to a needy family? so that is another thing. And I also wanna say, speaking of peace in the family and leaving a legacy, there are going to be things that everybody wants and nobody should be surprised. By what's in your will. And so have those conversations now.

And if you find out that maybe there's a ring that every, all of your children want then it, maybe it doesn't go to the oldest, maybe it gets shared and every year they pass it back on your birthday. We've got these creative brains. Let's come up with creative solutions to keep peace in our families.

[00:50:32] Lynn: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. The other thing too is I don't want my kids, I think what I'm. Thinking about is my kids sitting around without me able to explain myself and being like, why in the world does she have this? 

[00:50:47] Jami: Oh, I've got one for you. I have this. So I was doing a presentation, I do a presentation called Do you own your stuff or Does your stuff own you?

And typically it's mixed crowd, men and women. But this time it was very small. There were only two women. So, and then I said, and we talked about do you want. I found, maybe you need to think of letting it go, and one of the women says, what if you don't want it found? Because you're still using it, but you, and you don't wanna let it go.

So you read between the lines. Lynn, you tell me what you think she was holding onto, I think you know exactly what it was. And so I, on the spot invented the tequila box. So the tequila box is a box that you put that says, do not open. And then Lynn, do you think your sons would open a box that said, do not open when you die?

[00:51:34] Lynn: Yes, absolutely they would. So 

[00:51:36] Jami: then you brought a bottle of tequila in that box and it said, I did ask you not to open this box, but since you did, I hope you'll have some laughs.

[00:51:46] Lynn: I like it. I like it. I know that I've got to start on that as well, because there's gonna be, that's things, 

[00:51:54] Jami: that's gonna be a sparkler task. 'cause it's daunting. And, and I think we're gonna have, what was the funniest thing you found this week? So we're gonna, we're gonna make it fun.

We need to wrap this up, Lynn, because, I'm always worried that people are gonna get bored and they're gonna tune us out. And we want them, it's like a party. You want them to, you wanna keep it short enough that they leave wanting more. 

[00:52:14] Lynn: Okay. Okay. I got the final, I've got the closer.

[00:52:17] Jami: Okay. Drum roll. 

[00:52:19] Lynn: All right. All right. So if you suspect that someone in your family has undiagnosed ADHD. Okay. And you were so good at this. Where do you start? Where do they start? where was, where would someone start here?

[00:52:37] Jami: Well they should start with my book Lynn, this point so much.

 and then once you read the book and you find that you're yep. And then here's the trick. You've got to find. A healthcare provider who understands ADHD in older adults and even in sometimes in younger and women, they just were not trained on ADHD. And we, I'm actually going to be joining a task force to help educate physicians on what they need to know about ADHD.

But the reality is they're not where we need them to be. we need, you need to go finding a healthcare provider. If you can't, then I would recommend for. Finding an ADHD coach in your area, or an occupational therapist and an occupational therapist can help and they actually take insurance.

And then the other thing that I would recommend that you do is that if you I am a big time believer in bringing in an organizer who understands ADHD because let them set up systems understanding how you function. Because what they may do, like for instance, a bin. With a box is one more step.

So if an open bin is gonna be easier for you to use. finding a professional organizer, a member of the ICD Institute for Challenging Disorganization or NASMM.org Of course, San Diego. Here we are, San Silver Transitions. 

[00:54:00] Lynn: Alright okay, so if somebody is late in life diagnosed, I know you've said it before, we always say it's.

Why does it matter? Why does it matter, Jami? Why? Why? Why should you care? Because you wanna make the rest of your life 

[00:54:17] Jami: the best of your life. 

[00:54:21] Lynn: That's right. 

[00:54:22] Jami: Thanks so much. Thank you, Lynn. You're awesome.

[00:54:28] Jami: The opinions expressed on Grandma Has ADHD podcast are those of our guests and hosts and are intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. This podcast does not provide medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The content discussed in this episode is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional, or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or mental health concern. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast.

If you think you may have a medical emergency, call your doctor or emergency services immediately. The host, guests, and producers of Grandma Has ADHD do not assume any liability for the content of this podcast. Listen at your own discretion