Q1: When the difference between sardine cheesecake and success is just a few well chosen words

In this episode of the Business Lifejacket Podcast, host David Germain is joined by Emily Hunnybun, founder of Fresh Look Strategies, to navigate the choppy waters of recruitment and talent management. 

Emily shares her wealth of experience working with both boutique businesses and global organisations, offering insights into what makes—or breaks—the hiring process.

Expect plenty of laughs as Emily and David swap stories about the funniest CVs they’ve encountered, the quirkiest excuses candidates have given for skipping interviews, and the strangest things people have negotiated for in job offers. 

Emily also answers questions about the biggest mistakes job seekers make, the importance of recruitment within businesses, and what every company should remember when advertising a job.

'Dave's Storytime' features "The Great Chef Recruitment Debacle," a hilarious yet insightful story about the pitfalls of writing vague job descriptions—and the triumph of finally getting it right.

Whether you’re a business owner, HR professional, or job seeker, this episode offers valuable lessons with a healthy dose of humour. Tune in for practical advice, relatable stories, and plenty of nautical puns to keep things afloat!

Connect with Emily here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilyhunnybun/

Employability Skills Workshop takes place on Wednesday 19th February 2025. Register here:

https://andertoncentre.cinolla.com/andertoncentre/course/employability-skills-workshop?start_date=2025-01-07&end_date=2025-02-28

If you enjoyed today’s episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with others who might need a little extra support in their business journey.

Until next time, keep learning, laughing, and making waves!

Credits:
Host: David Germain
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dcgermain/
david.germain@andertoncentre.co.uk

Produced by: OneZeroCreative
www.OneZeroCreative.co.uk

Sponsored by The Anderton Centre
www.andertoncentre.co.uk
New Road, Anderton, Chorley, Lancashire, PR6 9HG reception@andertoncentre.co.uk 01257 484220 www.andertoncentre.co.uk

Learn more about the Anderton Centre by visiting the website, or contact David Germain for a personal tour.

Transcript

Hello and welcome to the Business Life Jacket podcast. The podcast that doesn't take itself too seriously and shoehorns as many nautical puns into the world of business. The Business Life Jacket podcast is sponsored by the Anderton Centre, an award-winning education, training and conference venue in the northwest between Bolton and Chorley. The views and opinions discussed on the Business Life Jacket podcast are based on personal experience of the individuals involved and are not intended to be taken as official business advice. Always seek professional guidance when making decisions for your business. Now let's dive in. Today we're joined by Emily Honeybun. Emily is the founder of Fresh Lookk Strategies and has worked in recruitment for significant time consulting with small boutique businesses and global organisations. Emily, welcome.

Hi David.

So, tell me a little bit about Fresh Look Strategies.

During my time working in recruitment for all sizes of businesses, one of the things that I absolutely saw the difference of is how global organisations use their money towards recruitment and talent acquisition and how smaller businesses just don't have that resource a lot of the time. They don't need it because they might only be recruiting once, twice a year and they just don't have the money to spend on talent teams. But to have a recruitment professional in your business is really vital. There's so much more that goes into recruitment than just looking at a CV or just interviewing and talking around somebody's cv. And so, I wanted to make it accessible, I wanted to make those processes accessible for smaller businesses so they could recruit better and that they are able to bring those policies and procedures on board for longevity.

Yeah, absolutely. Have you seen changes in recruitment strategies over your time?

Oh massively, yeah, definitely. I mean obviously the biggest one is pre Covid and post Covid.

Yeah, we still talk about that. 

No, it's just not going to go away for a while as much as we all wanted to. But yeah, definitely, yeah, there's a huge difference in the way that people recruit. There's such a push and pull at the moment with candidates, you employers thinking that candidates are making big demands and candidates going well actually hang on a minute, something like Covid happens, you've got rid of everybody, like why should I give my loyalty to you? And there's still this very much push and pull between the two parties.

Yeah, that's really interesting and I suppose me as a business leader I've got to think about that quite a lot. And we talk about employee value proposition and actually employees are looking for much more than just salaries now, aren't they?

Oh definitely.

So, do you think that's really important to create a package almost?

Yeah, absolutely. The difficulty that business leaders have is that one size not fit all and you're never going to please every single person because there's always going to be elements that you're offering that maybe don't apply to them or that they're just not going to make use of. We're in a difficult position at the moment where we have the cost-of-living crisis which is obviously squeezing a lot of people. They need to be able to pay their bills, that's a given. But there is a lot more to it than that. people are looking for a more flexible working arrangement that's becoming more and more important to them. There's lots going on and you know, things like healthcare, depending on people's position in life, healthcare, pension, things like that are becoming more and more important.

Yeah, I suppose when we think about it what's important to an 18, 19-year-old in their first job to somebody who's perhaps in their mid to late 50s with retirement around the corner they're going to have different priorities when they need from different from the job. I imagine in a lot of your work you've seen a lot of CVs, thousands. What's the funniest thing you've ever seen on a cv?

Oh my goodness, there are sometimes you do look at CVs and think what on earth. Yes, I have seen thousands of CVs I've seen quite a lot of bad CVs, but I have never ever seen a perfect CV.

That's interesting.

They just don't exist. You have people who offer a CV writing service, they charge thousands and actually in my opinion they don't often translate. If you have something that's very over formatted it might not translate into an applicant tracking system. O so Therefore I've had CVs where I've looked at and it's all wing bats and everything's all shifted, you can't really read it. And so, for me somebody who's you know, looking at thousands of CVs or hundreds of CVs even for one job that goes in a no, it's like I can't read it so it's a no. So, somebody might have spent a lot of money for somebody to format that CV in a way that is just go, going toa get rejected. The difficulty is I guess when you are writing it yourself it can be very, very hard to look at yourself from an outside perspective and something that certainly the British aren't very good at is selling themselves. So, it can be tricky. But I think one of the funniest things that stands out to me is the hobbies section. And maybe it's because I don't really have many hobbies that I kind of go, oh, no, it's a real head scratcher about what do you put on that? and you've got to really think about it because it's like, does this make me sound boring? Does this make you sound too, like too much like I go out all the time or you're always second guessing. But this particular person put on their hobbies looking things up on the Internet.

Okay.

Which then we all sit scrolling evening. Do you know? And it was like, you're really clutching in the stores. You may as well just not bother. Just don't put anything on it.

Context is definitely required.

It's definitely required.

Now you're sort of saying that people charge thousands and thousand of pounds for this service and I certain t want to give away, your knowledge, but if there was one tiny piece of advice you would give to perhaps somebody who's maybe even starting to write their first cv. What one critical piece of information do you need to have on a cv?

Surprisingly enough, and you won't believe how many people leave this, off contact details.

Wow, that's really interesting.

Yeah, you honestly, the amount of time I've looked at the CV and I thought this is a great cv, I really want to ring this person to speak to them about the job. No contact details.

Right.

And that's critical, absolutely, isn't it?

That's. Do you think there should be sort of multiple. A phone number, an email, so in multiple ways.

And also, the best way contacting them Covid was a bit of a blessing in a way because a lot of people were working from home, so they were able to answer their phones. But you know, we all know that there are times when you can't answer your phone and do you really want to miss out on something and it's like, well, actually what's better is I cheque my emails regularly or I don't cheque my emails regularly. So don't email me. Could you send me a WhatsApp message, or could you call me certain times that are best to contact them? Any of that sort of information is really quite handy for a recruiter, for example, who is looking at a CV and going, right, I want to speak to this person, but I can't get hold of them.

I really interested to pick your brains a little bit more, on interviews and interview processes and what mistakes first perhaps candidates make, but also what mistakes businesses and recruiters make.

I think the main mistake and both parties make this mistake is preparation. Ok. You find there's a lot of people who interviewers who, they'll have their pilot CVs M they know who's coming, they've got their CV, but they haven't read the CV. And so, they've got their questions, but they've not actually related it to what information has been given to them by the candidate already and vice versa. Candidate not doing the preparation and the research into the company and they're turning up for a job and they haven't done that prep to say that they've got the question or the answers to the questions and things like that. So yeah, that's a major, major part where people fall down.

Do you think there's a bit of a disconnect then from sometimes, especially with bigger organisations that are working with perhaps recruitment agencies that filter to me the ones that actually get through to interview stage?

Yeah, definitely. I mean as part of the recruitment process and I've done this in working in big organisations as well as smaller ones. you prepare the candidate. Right, ok. Y so you're sitting there going, right, these are the sorts of questions, or these are the areas that they're going to be asking you about. Make sure that you've looked into this. Having that prep time is. It can be so, so important. I remember there was one candidate who did really, really good preparation and found out that the person that they were interviewing with did a podcast and listened to their podcast. So, when they went in for the interview they were asking questions about the podcast.

That must be really nice because in interviews as we know can be quiet, intense situations and quite high pressure. So that must sort of maybe break down some of the barriers.

Definitely. And if you're prepared, you're less nervous.

Yeah.

Another thing that you do, certainly for candidates they forget that it's a two-way process as an interview. So, as a candidate you're interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you. You don't have to accept a. If you're offered a job, you don't have to take it. If you don't feel that it's the right fit for you, you've got just as much right to walk away from that. I think that's also forgotten it. And again, whenever I've prepped candidates, and I've said it’s a two-way process. Don't forget that. All of a sudden, they go oh yeah. And again, it just brings those nerves down a bit because you suddenly realise, well actually rather than walking to a situation where I feel I have no control about the outcome of this, I can only do my best and it's down to somebody else to make that decision. All of a sudden, you've got a bit of control back because you're looking at going, actually I've got a decision to make as well.

It's a great point and I'm 100% behind that. when I interview, I introduce the interview process as that 50 50. It's as much of about you getting to know us as us getting to know you. I use it to try and calm candidates and give them the best opportunity to show their best self. We might have a bit of a disagreement on this one, but one of my pet hates is competency-based interview question.

Why do you hate them so much, David?

So, I struggle not to get on my little bit of m my soapbox, but I think that kind of three people against one in a kind of boardroom scenario is set up for a particular type of person to be successful. Okay, so that's somebody.

You don't need to have three people.

No, no. I'm just trying to remember the majority of interviews that I seem to have gone to. There's always a panel and they're always asking these questions and taking notes, and they're always based around competency. And I understand from the process and from a safer recruitment point of view, I just feel that there's an element of bias in that process that it's going to allow certain people to be more successful. So, people who are able to articulate their answers, ah, against those competency matrix. And I just feel that that system isn't set up for everybody to have an even chance. So, I'm probably a little bit the opposite. So, if you were to perhaps read some of my work in terms of my CV and covering letter, I'd struggle to get through the door. But I'd like to think once you met me and we were able to have a conversation and share experience, I'd be able to articulate that quite well. So, I think what I've tried to do with my own recruitment strategies is to look at the competencies of the actual job and try and base the interview around that. So actually, for if I'm interviewing for a cook, do I need them to be able to tell Me where they see themselves in five years, how they des that question.

Don't even like that question. Just, oh, I got asked that question after I've been made redundant and I was like, well actually if you'd have asked me this question like few a couple of months ago, I could have told you exactly where I thought I was going toa be in five years. However, things have changed.

I don’t think it's sort of the mind games of describe yourself as a fruit and wine. I try to think of other stupid ones I've had across the years. How you describe yourself in three words, I mean realistically, what is that telling you about that candidate? I mean you could argue it's all they're thinking on the feet. Problem solving, being creative. I'd rather see it in practise, I think is where I'm coming to.

I'm not a massive fan of unconventional questions. I don't think that it's fair. If you're a candidate, you're already nervous, you've hopefully done all your prep, so you're really focused on what you're going to bring to the table, how you're going to talk to somebody about your skills and your experience and how you fit the role. And then somebody turns around and goes, okay, David, so what animal do you think you are and why, you know, it's like to me is that would throw certainly me into a huge panic because you're suddenly going, well, oh gosh, what animal do I think I am? And why is that? You've not prepared for it. So, it can really, really throw somebody off. I disagree a bit about the competency questions. I like competency questions that relate to the job and it's like they're open so you're allowing that person to be able to give you situations that they've already had experiences. So you go, okay, well that's how they dealt with that. Where it detaches a little bit for me is the first competency-based interview I ever had. I completely messed up. It was horrific. I was, I was almost was traumatised. I was like, literally it was awful. And I walked out, and I was just like, oh, I really wanted that job, and I know that I've messed up. Thankfully they were a lovely company who gave me, I think it was about 20 minutes, half an hour of feedback like to help me. It was really, really constructive. It was like, you just did this wrong, that wrong, didn't it? You know, it was really, really constructive. And so, then I Went off and I thought, okay, well, I'm not ready for that. And I went off and I worked on bits and pieces and made sure that I got the right thing. I, interviewed for the same. It was a different job, but I did interview with the same M Company again, got the job. It can really help. But sometimes I do find that it doesn't always show the best of somebody, or it can show somebody because of the way that they've answered. They've answered that correctly in a certain way. So therefore, they get the job. And actually, their skills and experience don't really match. So, you've got to have a balance.

Definitely. I suppose from a very, very mundane point of view, I can tell you anything. Doesn't mean I can deliver.

Exactly, exactly. And this is where there's the detachment. I'm, very, very passionate about neurodiversity. I'm very, very passionate about making sure that all processes are fair and, that it gives everybody the opportunity to be able to come to a table and say, this is me. This is who I, am. This is what I can do. These are my experiences and skills. What I find is often very much lacking in a process are those questions that really understand somebody's personality.

Oh.

And if you ask the right questions, you can tell when someone's lying.

Yeah, yeah.

But it's about asking the right questions. I think a lot of people focus on; this is the job description. And so therefore the questions have got to match the job description, which, yes, they do. But there also has to be a section about, who are you as a person? Can we work together? And it's just as much for them as it is for you. asking questions about, how can we support you if you're successful for this role? What do you feel is going to be something within this role that you need that just additional support on? How do you prefer to be managed? O.

That's a good one.

It's a really good one. How do we get the best out of you? That's what you're asking. Because what you're actually asking is, well, if we say, if, you know, somebody comes back and says, I like to know exactly what I'm doing every minute of every day, I need lots of support doing X, Y and Z. And it's not that that person shouldn't get the job because it doesn't mean that they can't do the job. But if you as a company cannot support that person, you're setting them up to fail from day one.

It's taking a step back and looking at that process. Obviously, you mentioned that you're a diverse, something I'm incredibly passionate about as well. We've had conversations, we're looking at the Anderson Centre, we 30% neurodiverse workforce and that's just diagnosed. There's plenty of us undiagnosed.

Yeah, exactly.

I suppose. What would your kind of top tip then be for perhaps an organisation looking to recruit of how could they assess their process to make sure they'd being as inclusive as possible?

It starts, off with understanding and, the issue that there is about neurodiversity is that it's really, really missing. Understood. It's seen as a disability. And the very fact that it's like reasonable adjustments, automatically you're saying, we need to make differences to this process for this candidate than that candidate. So automatically you are giving somebody a label. Neurodiversity is not, as you will know, it's not a one size fits all. If somebody is autistic, there are different types of autism. There's different things that they are really, really strong at. There's things that they struggle with and that's not going to be the same as the next person that has autism. You can't have an individual process for each person. But the first thing that companies need to do is be open and inviting people to have a safe space where they can discuss that. And that's where recruiters really come into their own. A lot of people, and I've had very, a lot of discussions and mainly with parents who've got children who are neurodiverse saying, well, I've told them not to tell anybody that they, you're a diverse when they're going for a job because they'll get discriminated against.

Right?

So automatically that person's going to struggle because they've not disclosed, and they don't have to disclose. It's not, it's not a legal requirement. But if you have a recruiter where they feel it's a safer space to go rather than the hiring manager, it's like, look, I struggle with this, I struggle with that, or I need help with this or that. That recruiter can then put that to the hiring manager, in a way that it isn't going to be a problem. It's like, right, we're just gonna have to do this. And the. There's so many different ways in which a team benefits from having different people in that team. That's the whole point of a team percent. If you've got the same sort of person five times over. You're not benefiting for anything. Whereas if you've got somebody who is very high level, thinking creative, but they might not be so great on the detail, but then you've got somebody that's really, really good at the detail, they're gonna work really well together and you are going to be able to produce something far better. there's just so much misunderstanding and I mean I'm ashamed to say that I've had conversations with hiring managers who have said to me, if we have to make changes to the hiring process for them, they're not going to be able to do the job.

Wow. The sort of fundamental issues with inclusion.

It’s just so important to get that communication going. The very fact that you know people, they're frightened of it because they don't understand it. And if there was more training and knowledge about neurodiversity’s, you know, it is coming through because when John Lewis released questions for the interview and there was a lot of controversy saying, oh, you're giving somebody an unfair advantage. Since when was an interview supposed to be an out of the blue test? You're giving and they're doing it, you know, across the board everybody's got the same questions. Everybody can research and prepare for them. And I just think it's all about setting people up for success again. If you are giving people that opportunity to shine and to show you what they can do, that's great. It's about making sure that the processes are clear, and that people know what to expect. I think certainly m like my generation, there was nothing to do with neurodiversity. It wasn't even a thing. There was dyslexia, but other than that it was like that's it. And then you've got people now who are coming through the school system who are being diagnosed earlier with neurodiversity. They're getting support at school and then they're being let loose into the workplace where people are going, oh no. Well, unless you fit into this box, you're not, you're no good. And if you think there's a lot of HR problems with disciplinaries, performance issues because their neurodiversity is not being, they're masking, they're not being allowed to be themselves, they're not being allowed to be good at what they're good at. and there has to be a recognition about that and more flexibility in job descriptions that allow somebody to come in who is particularly Strong. Yeah. They might need support on something else. But does that really matter?

Ah, I think a lot of the big organisations that are across this now are including little notes saying we welcome applications from, certain characteristics and so forth.

You know, even just saying something like, we encourage you to be your authentic self. That s. It's huge because you're saying it doesn't matter, like, we will support you. But the thing is, is once you've done that hiring process, it's got to follow through into the workplace.

Yeah, yeah.

There's no good playing lip service to it and saying, yes, bring your authentic self and be wonderful people. And then. And the very fact the workplace is not actually set up very well for neurodiversity’s, for example, even hierarchy. So, you'll often get at the, you know, sort of entry level position. A lot of admin. There might be someone who's rubbish at admin, but they're really, really good at creating content or they're really, really good at managing people or. But they'll never get to those positions because they'll never excel at that entry level. So, they'll never be put up for promotion and they'll never get that opportunity.

We've obviously talked to obviously about CVs, we've talked about interview processes. We talked about question, talked about how organisations can be more inclusive. You must have come across some strange excuses for not turning up to interviews.

I really have. I mean, honestly, some of them are just like, ridiculous. The craziest one that I heard was somebody who rang up and they said, I can't make the interview. One of her relatives had been in a car accident and had been decapitated, so she had to go visit her in the hospital.

Decapitated?

Yeah, she's been decapitated.

I mean, that's pretty extreme.

It's very extreme. And like, we're thinking, well, God, this is awful, but surely it would be on the news if that, you know, because that's a pretty horrific car accident. It must have been. And there was nothing on the news. And then, I think it was like a couple of weeks later she called up and I can't remember the situation. We just sort of went, now, now you're all right. Because it was. It was. She backtracked, basically. And it's like, okay, so one minute your auntie has been decapitated. People come up with all sorts of excuses. I had somebody who didn't start a job because the weather at the weekend was awful. They didn't want to go and start their job on a Monday morning. It really is. When you're dealing with people, it's always a bit crazy.

There's probably a missed opportunity there in terms of. You touched on it previously around the kind feedback piece because actually if we were able to be perhaps more open and honest and transparent as both employees and candidates, if a candidate rang me and said listen, I've decided not to come on the interview and it's not right for me. Ve looked into the organisation remunerations isn't right. You know that information to me is then an employer, it’s gold.

Exactly.

But we never get that. We get the dog ate the homework kind of excuse.

This is another issue, you know, with recruitment and that's ghosting is the whole different issue altogether. But people feel that they can't be honest, and I don't know why because I tell you who always remembers and that's the recruiter. And if you go to a different company, for example, as you do, you change your job and things like that, you will still remember those candidates. And so actually you're doing yourself a disservice by not engaging and not treating people like with that respect, vice versa. there's a lot of recruiters I know like ghost candidates, a lot of businesses ghost candidates. And again, those candidates are going to remember.

Yeah.

So, and not only that, they're going to tell their friends, oh, don't go to there because I went for an interview there. I never heard anything back. And it's got worse after Covid massively, people have seem to have forgotten how to communicate with each other. You've got to look at it as a whole thing. It's not tit for tat here. You know, it's not like, well, will they ghosted me so I'm gonna go there. Do you know what mean? It's you've got to just treat people with respect and like say just as much as feedback is brilliant for candidates, if it's constructive and good feedback, a candidate can then take that forward to their next interview. And like you say as an employer to hear that sort of feedback go, well, actually I've decided not to come for the interview because I've got a job. and it's exactly the same job but it's paying more money. And then you go, well actually, can I do something with that? It's good feedback for you.

Yeah, it's so hard to benchmark because a lot of the time information like that is kind of behind closed doors. Yeah. I've just literally just thought of it at a time there where I went through an interview process, and it was quite laborious. There was a number of interview stages, there was presentations and different workshops, and it was quite a big commitment. And unfortunately, I got down to the final two and I wasn't successful. But I came away having had such a positive experience. They communicated me throughout. They gave me a direct contact of anybody I could speak to throughout the process. They kept me up d they told me even to the extent of. They were literally like; we wanted to make a decision at the end of today. We unfortunately were still deliberating. We want that opportunity to deliberate over the weekend. We will come back to you on Monday. And they came back to me on Monday. So, they did what they said they would do.

Yeah.

Even though I was gutted not to get the job.

Yeah.

I see that company in incredibly high regard.

Yeah.

And I've actually encouraged people to apply for jobs with that company.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, it really is such a reputational thing. And this is where recruitment, in my opinion, it's never really seen as, a very. Just bonkers, like, important area. Because it is. Because these are people and you're bringing into your business. You've worked really hard; you've got your business to where it needs to be. You're bringing people on board. Those people should be the best of best. Surely, they should be the people that you need on board. It's a huge expense and yet a lot of people go, oh, well, you know, I'll just ask them a few questions, I'll talk around the cv. And it's like, well, I on a minute. You're not putting the effort into finding these people that you need. And also, it creates such a bad reputation. I've had people who have said to me, I don't want to go for an interview at that M company because I know somebody that worked there for a bit, and it was awful.

Yeah.

And so, they will not even entertain an interview at that company. And all, you know, it's such a gauge. And like you say, you will encourage somebody to go for an interview somewhere that you feel truly you with a lot of respect.

Yeah. I think that's a big word, isn't it? It's respect.

Huge word, respect. And I think what's happening, and certainly at the moment where the market is very candidate heavy, there's not a lot of jobs for a lot of people, it's even more lost because it's like, well, you know, we've got hundreds of people applying for one job, whatever. You know, it's almost like a throwaway thing. If people don't have the right processes and don't have the time to keep you updated and to make sure that things are being followed properly, you're going to have a bad candidate experience.

I think that's super insightful and loads that both candidates and employers can take away. For regular listeners of Business Life Jacket Podcast, we know that we have a little small feature called Dave's Story time. Today is Great Chef Recruitment debacle. So, I've hired many people in my time, but recruiting a new cook proved to be an unexpected challenge. I wanted to ensure we didn't pigeonhole ourselves, so I went with a very vague job description. Looking for a talented cook to fuel adventures. Apply now sounded appealing enough. Turned out to be a recipe for disaster. The first candidate, Barry, waltzed in with the confidence of a TV chef. I specialise in Avant Garde cuisine, he said while unpacking a bag of ingredients that looks suspiciously like a random items from the fridge. His sample dish was a plate of sardines, whipped cream and crushed biscuits. It's a deconstructed cheesecake, he explained, beaming. I, wasn't convinced, especially when our dining room smelled like sardines for 20 minutes. Then came Sandra, who worked in a Michelin star restaurant as a receptionist. But I've seen plenty of chefs in action, she insisted. She spent her trial cooking session trying to make spaghetti carbonara without understanding the eggs are key ingredients. The resulting dish was pasta in warm milk. It's a modern twist, she announced. Finally, Dave, not David, arrived. His CV claimed experience in high pressure culinary environments, but turned out this meant running a snack bar at a bowling alley. Dave's interview went downhill when he asked, you're okay with me used using the microwave, right? So, by the end of the day, I sat in my office, deflated. Every candidate had been widely underqualified for the job. Reflecting on this disaster, I finally glanced back at the job advert. That's when it hit me. Talented cook was far too vague. We need someone with experience feeding large groups, someone comfortable with dietary restrictions, someone who could work independently. None of that had been spelled out clearly. Two weeks and a new advert later, I interviewed Martha, who run a school kitchen for 10 years. She breezed through the trial, whipping up a hearty meal for 14 in no time flat. I love a clear brief, she said. From then on, I've now vowed never to underestimate the importance of a Clear job description. After all, the difference between sardine cheesecake, and success is just a few well-chosen words. Any thoughts on that?

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. I think I'm all for mixing it up. One of the bug bears that I've got is that every advert in the last probably 40 years has exactly the same kind of layout. Bit about the company, bit about the job list of what they want and aren't we wonderful? We offer a pension, so it is good to mix it up. I'm not a big fan of looking for a rock star. you've also got to give people that list of things that you need because that's your way of saying yes or no. If you're too vague they can come back and go, yeah, but you know, you didn't say that in the job advert. It's making sure that you've got everything that you need for that role. If you need qualifications, you've got to put that on. At the same time though, one of them, the problems with Easy Apply is that you do get crazy applications. You know, I did, I worked a lot within the accountancy and finance field and obviously one of the things is a qualification accountancy. I had somebody once you said I'm interested in the senior auditor position that you've got available. Un I. Are you qualified? Well, no, not really. Like, well, what's your experience? Well, did a stop take once in a shop and it was just like oh gosh, you know. No, that's not what auditing is. So, you've got to make sure that, you know, you are sort of spelling that out, but you can open a whole can of worms by being too vague. Absolutely. It's always good to review some more.

Great advice. And is that a service that recruiters offer to actually work with organisations on things like job descriptions?

They work on a job advert for themselves to put out, but they wouldn't necessarily work on a job description, internal recruiters would. There's a difference between agency recruiters, and internal recruiters. And in house recruiters like tongue acquisition, they're all sort of slightly different but an in-house recruiter would be able to work on that. I can work on that. For example, for clients it's really important to sit down. It's your shop window. Your job advert is a shop window. It's the one thing that makes you stand out against competitors looking for the same person. You know, they're probably going to apply for both but who do they really want to Work for?

No, definitely. I think we've covered quite a bit there, haven't we? From adverts CVs interview process, hopefully that's been of interest. Now we've actually got something exciting to talk about as well, haven't we?

We certainly have.

So, we've been busy behind the scenes putting together a recruitment skills event. Who are we sort of looking to target for? that.

Yeah, well we're looking to target for 16- to 24-year-olds really, people basically who are looking for help and guidance on how to set out the CV interview techniques and understanding a lot more about themselves as well and what they're good at and where something that's really, really hard. It's understanding what are my strengths, what can I do. And it's being able to find that out and hold a mirror up to yourself really, because we are really bad at doing that. I think we discussed that earlier and it's using a lot of like your outdoor activities as well. So, it's not just going to be sitting in a classroom and staring at a PowerPoint. There's going to be loads of interaction, lots of stuff. So, you can come away with a really, really good idea about how you can put your best foot forward and what you can highlight in your CV and your interviews.

I just think a day like this, if I could gone back to 15, 16, go from my first job, would have just been so, so useful.

So useful.

there's going to be some real kind of key outcome from the day and from obviously the outdoor side of things. There's going to be opportunity to meet new people and learn some communication and problem-solving skills but actually give you confidence and give you different things to talk about in an interview.

Absolutely.

When I speak to perhaps students from colleges and universities, some of the competency-based questioning, they sometimes don't have that example. Tell me a time when you were challenged. This event, it will give than that.

Yeah. So very interactive skills event day coming in in February. So, if you're interested, cheque out the Anderson Centre website where there'll be further details and where you can book your place. It's going to be exclusive so there's going toa be limited places. Emily, thank you very much. I think that's been a fantastic chat.

Thanks David. Yeah, I really enjoyed it.

Good. and to everybody else, thanks for joining us on this episode of the Business Life Jacket podcast. We hope you're leaving with a few new ideas, some lessons from our missteps and maybe even a chuckle or two. Remember, business doesn't have to be all storms and stress. Sometimes you just need the right life jacket to keep things afloat. If you've enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share with others who might need a little extra support in their business journey. Until next time, keep learning, keep laughing and keep making waves.