Q1: When You Don’t Ask, You Don’t Get (Extra Lobster)

Set sail with us on this unforgettable, seaborne edition of the Business Lifejacket Podcast as host David Germain records from the Bridge of the Borealis, deep in the fjords of Southern Norway, en route to Ålesund – and fresh from witnessing the awe-inspiring Northern Lights!

In this exclusive episode, David is joined by the charismatic and deeply experienced Captain Mikael Degerlund of Fred. Olsen Cruise Lines, who shares stories from his remarkable 44-year journey at sea – starting as a teenage deck boy from a small Finnish village to commanding cruise ships across the globe.

This is more than a podcast – it’s a front-row seat to life at the helm and a rare insight into the leadership and legacy of one of cruising’s most respected captains.

So grab your metaphorical lifejacket, steady your compass, and get ready for a deep dive into tales of resilience, responsibility, and the romance of the sea.

If you enjoyed today’s episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with others who might need a little extra support in their business journey.

Until next time, keep learning, laughing, and making waves!

Credits:
Host: David Germain
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dcgermain/
david.germain@andertoncentre.co.uk

Produced by: OneZeroCreative
www.OneZeroCreative.co.uk

Sponsored by The Anderton Centre
www.andertoncentre.co.uk
New Road, Anderton, Chorley, Lancashire, PR6 9HG reception@andertoncentre.co.uk 01257 484220 www.andertoncentre.co.uk

Learn more about the Anderton Centre by visiting the website, or contact David Germain for a personal tour.

Transcript

Hello and welcome to the Business Life Jacket podcast. The podcast that doesn't take itself too seriously and shoe horns as many nautical puns into the world of business. The Business Life Jacket podcast is sponsored by the Anderton Centre, an Award-Winning education, training and conference venue in the northwest between Bolton and Chorley. The views and opinions discussed on the Business Life Jacket podcast are based on personal experience of the individuals involved and are not intended to be taken as official business advice. Always seek professional guidance when making decisions for your business. 

Today, something very special. 

Now let's dive in. 

Well, hello there and welcome to this very special edition of the Business Life Jacket podcast where let me set the scene. I am currently on the astonishing Borealis Fred Olson Cruise Lines somewhere in Southern Norway heading into the port of Alesund on their inaugural trip from Newcastle in search of the Northern Lights. 

And I'm very pleased to announce that last night we actually had a fantastic view of the Northern Lights thanks to my mystery guest. Now we've had the absolute privilege of coming up onto the bridge deck to see where the magic happens and I'm joined by Captain Mikael Degerlund. 

Captain, first of all, thank you so much for giving up your very busy schedule. Spend a couple of minutes talking to me. How are you?

I'm very good, thank you.

Well, I suppose the first question is, Is this your first podcast?

No, it's not. I think I have been before around three or four, you can find them on the Internet.

So, Captain, I don't know how much you know about the Business Life Jacket podcast but we look at all aspects of business from a fairly laid-back relaxed angle and look at how we can kind of teach other people new into the world of business and in particular leadership. But first of all, I'd love to get to know you a little bit more and some of your career and experience. So first of all, what inspired you to become a captain and how did your journey lead you to the Borealis?

Oh, that's a long story. I grew up in a little village in the southern part of Finland close by the sea. And we were 12, 13 years old. We all had the small rowing boats so we went out to the closest islands in the archipelago with tents and did some camping. And then I was 17 years old, I bought my first boat and I went alone with it to Sweden as a 17-year-old. And the reason for that was that none of my friends wanted to come with me. They said that we are too young and we don't know how to navigate. And I was 16 years old. I started at sea after the ninth grade in school I went one year in semen school and became a deck boy. And then I started actually for 44 years ago in 8th of May 1981, I started at sea on a cross channel ferry from Ramsgate to Dunkirk and on a company called Sally Line. And then at that time I didn't have an idea that I would become a captain or anything. I just wanted to be at sea and see where it leads to. And that was the start of it. And then I started as a deck boy. I became an ordinary seaman; I became an able seaman. Then I went two years into maritime school and became an officer. And after four years working as an officer, I went in for another two years and became graduated as a master Mariner in 1995. And then in 2004 actually for 25 years ago I got my first command on a cruise ship. So, it's a long story.

Absolutely. What qualities make a great cruise ship captain?

Yeah, I think of course it's about people. You know it's we are all sailors. It doesn't matter what kind of ships you are working on if you are in a small little boat or if you are on a cargo ship or if you are on a cruise ship. The difference between these is that you have much more people around when you are working on a cruise ship. So, on this one even though it's not a very large cruise ship, we are still close to 700 crew members from some 30 different nations. And then we are taking up to 1400 guests as well. So, it's of course very, very important that you can get along with people you know and manage people because you know we are all different and hear on board from different as I said different nationalities, different backgrounds, different cultures, different age groups. So, you need to get along with everyone.

Yeah, that must be challenging at times. Can you share a kind of a memorable experience from your time at sea?

Oh, there are so many so I don't really know what ever think about. And most of the memories are great you know and I would say that the best of being a sailor during these 44 years if I say kind of one thing it wouldn't be really be a detail as such. It's more like you know that you have been able to meet all these kinds of different people. I have been able to meet the poorest people in the world. And you've been able to meet the richest people in the world and would have been back still in my little village where I actually originated from. I would never been able to meet these people. And this really opened your eyes, you know, for four different cultures. And then see that at the end of the day we are all similar.

Absolutely. So, as I mentioned before, I refer to myself as captain of the Anderton Centre, which is in the presence of a real captain, managing a ship like the Borealis is a huge responsibility. How do you approach leadership on board?

It's not a one man show of course. I mean we are having a senior team, we are having management meetings, kind of every day. And so, you cannot micromanagement them. You just have to trust your senior management and the leaderships. And of course, it's different kind of levels of leadership on board. And with these many people on board, know, 2,000 people on board only. You know, the most, things are coming up to me when really can't be handled on a lower level or such. You know, it's important, you know, to talk to everyone. And this is a good example here. We have one crew member with birthday here today. And I personally bring this letter to the crew member and actually singing for the crew member as well.

Really.

So, this is kind of one of my jobs.

That's really, really interesting. And I have noticed actually when you were sort of introducing the crew and just looking at the people on shop, there seems to be a lot of development going on. A lot of people learning and a lot of people observing. Is that something that's really important in the kind of maritime cruise industry?

It is, I would say so. In my case, for example myself, as I said, I started on the bottom, the lowest rank as a deck boy. And then when you learn and you're getting experience, you are getting up to the next level and next level and so forth. So, there's no chance that even though you are graduating with your theoretical exam that you could take the position as such. Because you also need to know the practical experience behind it.

I imagine it's not all been smooth sailing. Possibly a few challenges along the way. Would you be able to share one with us?

Yeah, of course. If you are a whole life at sea, there are things that are happening, both good and bad things. And One thing that I remember was that in the South China Sea, I think it was 1997. I was a first officer. I was on the Bridge driving and I saw something that looked like ah, a wall. And it was land and it shouldn't be any land in South China Sea. And when we came closer, I saw it was a wall of water actually. And what it was a freak wave. And now I, I stopped the ship and turned the ship, the bow towards it and then the whole freak wave came over the ship and filled up the whole forecastle with water all the way like a swimming pool. And also, some windows broke and water came in but nobody was heard. That was a good thing.

Absolutely. That's the main thing, isn't it? So obviously a man of your experience in the cruise industry. We were talking about how the kind of cruise industry has faced some significant challenges. In particular while we're still living in that sort of post Covid world and so forth.

Yeah, when Covid started we took our ships. We had four ships. We took them up to outside Edinburgh, we were one month at anchor and after that we took them into our site, into Babcock, into our yard where they actually built the aircraft carriers. And we will adapt side by side for almost two years and we sent all our crew members home and we were down to 150 persons on all four ships together and we just ah running air condition and lighting, heating on the ships and nothing else for those two years. It's very very sad time but that was for the whole world. Not only for us of course.

And do you see any sort of trends coming down the line with, with cruising, how things are going to potentially change or. You were mentioning why Fred Olson and the Borealis is so special because it's quite an intimate cruise and you're able to go to places that some of the larger cruises aren't.

If you take the whole cruise industry are such. There's around 330 cruise ships in the world, not more than that. And the trend is that they are getting bigger and bigger and bigger and the reason for that is the economy of scale. So, you get the price per person. You're getting down by having a bigger ship that takes more passengers. Then is that what the guests want? At the end of the day, you know it's going to come to a limit. And different people of course want different things. And the big cruise ships with 8,9000 people it's little bit like a floating amusement park or a floating shopping centre and some guests want that. Then another thing is of course that is that Sustainable. And do the people in the different ports where they are taking to, do they want to have this kind of tourism? And we see that in many ports now around the world, and not on the cruise industry, but also the other kind of tourists that know you're coming up to a limit where they cannot cope any longer, when EAS is one thing. And then Canary Islands, for example, the prices, the locals are going up in regards of rents and things because, you know, you are renting out and the tourists are willing to pay a price per day for a flat, but the locals cannot afford to live. And these are the kind of, you know, how will that go together with the CRU industry and the tourism as such. And many places are quite small and you're bringing Caribbean, for example, you have eight or nine crew ships coming in in the morning and if they have 8,000 persons, you know, you have, for the day you kind of have 50, 60,000 people in a little village, know, for one day. And can they really sustain that for a long term? so it needs to, it will evolve, you know, in one way or another. But I don't know how.

What's the most rewarding part of your job?

People. Absolutely, people. And as I said already, it is, you know, you are a sailor, but it is so much more than just, sailing a ship itself. It is just in all the people that you are meeting, and not only the guests, but also the crew members and every person itself has a story and to tell. and that is the most exciting thing.

A lot of what I do and a lot of what my staff do is creating those first experiences. So, the first time our young people will ever go on the water on a sailing boat. So, we're kind of the start of the journey and you're perhaps towards the end of the journey. What's that one piece of kind of advice you would give to somebody who was aspirant about either joining the maritime industry or being a sailor?

Just go for it, just go for it. And don't be afraid, you know, and just see where it leads to, if you like it or not. And on that topic, I can actually say that I did, even though I started with the boats when I was 12, 13 ourselves. And then I was in 1990, me and my girlfriend, we actually bought a first sailing boat and we had never been sailing before and it was 10.10 metres or 34ft. And, and so then we took a friend out and we said, okay, come out and tell us how do you get up this ed, you know, where do you which, which you know. And so, then he showed us you for half an hour and we took a little round and then we said, okay, now you go off and me and my girlfriend is going to go by ourself. 

So, then we sailed six years in the Baltics Sea from 1990 to 1996 and 1996 we sailed, we took down the MA. We took the boat through rivers and canals in Europe, down to Mediterranean. And it took us, one and a half months to get down to Mediterranean. We came out river own close to Marseille. And then we sailed six years in Mediterranean during my holiday. So, we sailed six months or we had two months, three months. And then I worked three months. We had three months, I worked through. And every three months we took up the boat in marina. My family flew back home to Finland. And then three months later we sailed. So, we sailed, Turkey, Greece, Italy, France, Spain and Northern Africa during these six years. And then six years later we took the boat home again to Baltic Sea through rivers and Canal’s again. So, it is just, you know, there are no limits what you can do. Just go for it.

Amazing. Have you ever been seasick?

I have, I have. And you know, the thing is that during the time I had my sailing boat, I was the first in my family that got sick before my wife and before my kids.

And you got any top tips for how to combat it?

I just, don't, you know, I like when I'm in a sailing boat, I cannot really, you know, if I'm inside the boat, I need to kind of lay down. But if I'm then up on the sailing boat, you know, I just need to look at the horizon and that helps, you know.

Now what we've noticed is you have a bit of a signature sign off when you do your captain's announcements. I was wondering if you'd be able to do it for us now.

Absolutely. Take care of each other.

Another brilliant captain. Thank you so, so much. 

Any episode of the Business Life Jacket podcast wouldn't be complete without Dave's story time. And although I wasn't able to discuss my lobster negotiations with the captain directly, this episode is no different. 

So here goes the great lobster negotiation. A tale of asking for more. A few years ago, I found myself on a cruise ship staring at a menu that promised the captain special a meal that sounded fancier than my entire wardrobe.

 Now, being a lover of good food and mildly competitive when it comes to getting the best deal. I had a dilemma. The menu clearly stated one lobster per guest. Fair enough. But what if I wanted two lobsters? Would they throw me overboard for even suggesting it? Would the captain himself come down, shake his head and revoke my buffet privileges? I hesitated. I consider my options. I even weighed up attempting to befriend the waiter in hopes of an extra generous portion. But ultimately, I did nothing. Accepted my single lobster fate like an obedient passenger. 

Fast forward to the next table over a guy, let's call him Bold Barry, simply asked the waiter, any chance I could get an extra lobster? The waiter barely blinks before replying, sure, no problem. Just like that. no secret handshake? No bribery? No elaborate backstory about his great, great grandfather was a fisherman and his dream was just this meal. But one simple ask and Barry, he sat there smugly enjoying his two lobster feast while I silently questioned all my life choices. 

So, what's the lesson here in business and in lobster negotiations? If you don't ask, you don't get whether it's negotiating a better deal, pitching an idea, or, say, landing an interview with the captain of a cruise ship. The worst someone can say is no. But if you don't ask, you'll never even get that chance. 

In fact, this whole episode came about because my wife, proving again that she's the real strategic genius in this partnership, simply asked. And just like Barry's second lobster, here we are sitting down with an actual captain to talk all things leadership and the sea. 

So next time you hesitate before making a quest, remember the great lobster negotiation. Because whether it's in business life or on the high seas, fortune favours those who just asked the question. 

Thanks for joining us on this episode of the Business Life Jacket podcast. We hope you're leaving with a few new ideas, some lessons from our missteps, and maybe even a chuckle or two. Remember, business doesn't have to be all storms and stress. Sometimes you just need the right life jacket to keep things afloat. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with others who might need an extra little sub bit of support with their business journey. Until next time, keep learning, keep laughing and keep making waves.

And take care of each other. Thank you.