Navigating Social Anxiety

Growing up today comes with pressures previous generations never had to navigate from social expectations, comparison culture, academic stress, and the overwhelming desire to belong.

In this episode, Kendra is joined by Holly Tumpkin to talk about social anxiety and the unique challenges young girls face as they move through childhood into young womanhood.

For more Aha Moments visit https://buildingallchildren.org/podcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome! My name is Kendra Morgan, and I'm the host of the Rise and Build Podcast, where we hope to empower you to rise up and build a strong family, knowing you have to strengthen your hands to do the good work. Come with us as we rise and build. Hey you guys, welcome to the Rise and Build Podcast. Today is such an important topic. I am setting across from Holly, and we are talking about social anxiety. Um, really just anxiety um all the way around. It doesn't have to be social. We are seeing more and more children struggling with this. And so I want you first to get to know Holly, and then we are gonna dive into this topic. Okay, Holly. Okay. So first just tell me about you a little bit. Tell me about your family.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Well, um, I've got three grown daughters, and that's kind of how this whole thing started working with girls because I was as I was helping them, you know, raising them, had lots of questions, and um, just through that process, this whole uh the Lord really birthed this whole uh ministry program through me. So um just asked me to kind of help in this area needed that so much of so many of us need.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Okay, and then tell us a little bit about your ministry before we dive into all this. And could you share a little bit about your ministry? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Well, I love what you do, and I remember meeting with you years ago and at your other building and talking through what you do, and we both love to help kids grow up. Right. And um, so I I'm honored to be here. So thank you for having me. Yeah, but um yeah, I just love about 20 plus years ago, as my kids were hitting that middle school age, I had so many people, women especially, just say, just wait till those teenage years, or just wait, um, like just warning me of horrible things to come, you know, and mom-daughter fights and all that. And so many people said that to me. It really drew my attention, and I just started wondering why does that keep coming up and praying about it? And how that can't be the way we're designed to be, you know. So, Lord, what what do we do for this? And it's like the Lord just kind of just shined that light on right where I needed to focus, and um really through a series of things, the Lord just kind of gave me a vision of um we started a I convinced some other moms at the school I was at to we all work together and just started an after school program for our girls. Okay, which 20 years later I have done it through schools, through my home, through churches, and really just helping girls um really work through the identity issues, the friendship issues, and you know, their purpose in God. Yeah. So I love it.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

I love it. And we are gonna primarily talk about girls today. I mean, we're seeing a lot of boys with anxiety, but you I feel like are specialized in girls. And when this topic came up with the Building All Children team, um, just because we are seeing, I mean, really eight, nine, ten, eleven-year-olds is because we only work up to fourth grade. So we're seeing younger. Um, I know this is kind of specialized in kind of 10 and up. Yes. Um, and I say up because anxiety oh yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

I mean Oh yeah, and I know we've connected before because you kind of end where I begin. Yes, yes. And yeah, fourth grade is about because I try to get them before they're too cool in middle school. Right. You know, they um we meet together and they love love what we do. Okay. And so it sticks with them. But yeah, it's needed all through teen years and I've worked with college age and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

So we're gonna kind of dive into this topic. Um and so I feel like this is this is your real house for sure, especially with teens. I always say I'm not an expert, I'm early childhood, but I do feel like we have a lot of moms that are calling and reaching out because their daughters are struggling with anxiety and they don't know where to go or know what to do. Um and I don't always believe counseling is the way to go. I think it's really teaching them and giving them some tools. So that's kind of what we're gonna dive into. So could we first just talk about anxiety? Like what is anxiety? What does that look like? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Um, well, as I've heard girls, many girls through the years, um, they really do worry so much. Um, and I try to tell them that what matters is what's inward and what's upward, not what's outward, what comes from outward. But they really worry about what others say, what they think, you know, they're frozen in fear of some social situation, or um, you know, I've heard stories of they hide in the bathrooms at lunchtime because there's nobody to sit with, or or they become real perfectionisticky, afraid of any flaws, you know. So there's so many different things that cause anxiety. And um, you know, what's interesting is through the years is I've found when girls just kind of share these thoughts and you talk about the hard subjects that many don't talk about. When you start talking it in a group and they realize it's like I can see, you know, eyes light up and ears start listening, like we're gonna talk about this. And they are so relieved that other girls feel the same way. Yeah. I would say 99.9% of females, you know, it doesn't even stop at, you know. Sure. So they're relieved and they hear each other's thoughts, and I just like to ask questions and help them come up with answers on their own, or you know, think through do you think this other person's really thinking that? Or, you know, things like that. So we just kind of have conversations about it, and and girls really start talking and doing the sharing with each other.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

So well, it makes sense. I feel like they feel like they're the only ones struggling with this, and then when they start talking about it, it probably makes them feel just a little bit comfort that they're not the only ones going through it. Yeah. Um, I know my oldest daughter, Maggie, I mean, she had a horrible anxiety, which I think I also we reached out to you years ago about her. And she's good with me always sharing her story because she believes it's really her testimony. But part of it was when we got her help, she I remember her saying, I thought I was the only one that felt this way. Um, so it makes sense that as you get them together and start talking about it, just that in itself is probably a little bit of healing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

It is, yeah, it's a relief. Yeah, yeah, it's a relief, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Okay, so could we talk about? I mean, I know that you have written a book. Is it fair to say that it's a book? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Handling anxiety, yes, it's a workbook.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Well, okay, it's a workbook, it's hands-on, and I want our listeners and our viewers to see your book and we can put a reference to it and stuff because I I really want I want families that are struggling with their daughters and anxiety, I want them to connect to some resources. And so that's okay one of the main reasons that I wanted you on this podcast. So I'm so grateful you're here. But could you talk to me about the handling anxiety? How do you handle anxiety? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Sure. Well, um, I've used this for years and finally years later, turned it into like a book other people could use. But as I work with girls, then I was really um teaching them. So the scriptures, the main two scriptures that I use for dealing with anxiety, it's the Philippians 4.6, do not be anxious about anything in every situation by prayer and petition with thanksgiving, present your request to God. Love it. And then 1 Peter 5 7, cast your cares upon him because he cares for you. And you read that scripture, do not be anxious about anything. How is that possible? I know, right? And so I've worked with girls to really learn that as a step-by-step process. And even in when I've done this in schools and turned it, you know, I can't use scripture sometimes, sometimes I can. But um, I try to come up with ways that they could process this scripture even without using the scripture. Right, you know, right. So, um, but it's really we um if we pause and think about our thoughts and kind of define them in our head, and then we admit them to God and repent or ask for help, and then we um cast them upon God and we just replace them with other positive thoughts. I love that. And it's really a process and it's it does, you know, you have to work at it over and over and over, but it really walks them through the scriptures step by step and teaches them how to get those things out, define them, yeah, and identify what your stressors are and then how to work through those. So I love it. It's kind of an overall thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

So if I'm listening to this and um which do you mind holding up just so they can see?

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Um, so and this one's really a just on on your own. Okay. This is a book girls can do by themselves.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

So this is something that the family could get for their daughters, kind of help them work through it together or sure. Yes, yes. Um, and so you've got kind of a whole process in it. And I love it because um it I mean, it does. It talks about Yeah, it's just kind of step by step. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Um, how to cast the cares and how to remember. I love it. Really?

SPEAKER_01 10:00

I love it. Um, and I also love that scripture because that is the scripture that Maggie that I feel like kind of healed her too. We actually had it placed on a necklace. Oh, and she wore it. And every time she got really anxious, she would kind of rub that necklace for remembering the scripture. Okay. Um, so I love that that is what this is founded on. It's so sweet because I do think there's some power in replacing the negative thoughts with the positive thoughts and what they're grateful for.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Definitely. And this is something I'd done with younger girls for so long, and then I was like had some older like college, and I was like, I wonder if they'll like to do this. And we tried it and they loved it. And then I did some young ladies and they loved it. So it's a it's applicable to many ages.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Um, so talk to me about you mentioned you do this in schools. Do you do it in this type of activity in like small groups? Like, how do you do that? How do you go through this book if you were to lead it?

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Um, I've always done groups of you know, about uh 10 to 12 girls at the most. Okay. Yeah. Now I've I a girl that from used to live here in Tulsa is now leading a group in uh Mississippi with my program, and she d she does 30 girls at a time.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

I couldn't do that. She can do it and has other like high school helpers. But yeah. That's awesome. So you're in other states. I love it. It's becoming that way. I finally got to the point of I just did this by myself for years, and I thought, well, I guess other people can use this too. So that's why I've just put everything kind of into products that others can use now. Yeah. I'm trying to help.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

And the name of your ministry is it Girls 101? Okay. So it's girls101.org. Is that right? If someone wanted to go to your website and get the information. Yes. Okay. Um, and then let's kind of go back. I know um I love the book. I think our families need the book. I think we all could probably walk through, I think we all have anxiety. It's just some of them are I feel like girls just don't know how to process anxiety or what to do with that feeling.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Yeah. And it's hard to parent through that. And, you know, we all tried and made mistakes along the way and learned things and figured out how to how to get through it. But um one thing that um I always see is that girls really do want the moms to be the main one to help them. Really. So it's great to have mentors, it's you know, it's needed, um, counselors need it eventually. Sometimes, you know, not always, but um, yeah, the girls really want the the true space to be with their mom.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

That's sweet. I love that. If a mom is listening to this, I want them to know that they are the ones that can help their daughter. Yes. You know, even when you think you can't, you do have the capability. Yeah. So what would be your advice to help a mom? Like if I'm sitting here listening to this, I'm a mom, and I don't know where to start. What would be your advice for that?

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Um, I would say to this this was the hard part for me to learn as a mom too. And is just listening and not always feeling like you have to say something right back, which is our natural tendency, right? Well, we want to fix the problem.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yes. But it's okay just to listen to their concerns and their needs.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

And the first time I heard that, I was like, what? That is so hard. Yes. I'm supposed to just listen. Where's the solution? Right. But that truly is the biggest need is just to be the safe place where they can listen and or you listen and they can speak and get it out and feel safe.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

And then as you do that, then you can, you know, probe with more questions or thoughts, or what do you think the next step is, and and really just kind of help coach them through thinking of options. And sometimes they can't think of any and then offer one, you know. But it's that's the that's the mom hardest thing, is is to pause, wait, and listen.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

I love it. I love it. And not always, you don't always have to have an answer. Right. It's okay. And I feel like that's the pressure of a mom, is we feel like we have to have the answers, and we're not specialized in this, but it's really just meeting them where they are and listening to what what's going on in their world. Yeah. Could we talk a little bit about the pressures these girls um are facing?

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Yes. Um, as I've thought about different things, I've heard um some things have been around forever, you know, the girl fights, the boy issues, um, the fears, the anxieties, um, and pleasing parents is a big one too. Um, and academic stress, all those things. Uh, there's so many expectations on them, and trying to do everything right and kind of feeling frozen. And now, you know, uh social media is added a whole nother level. And I've heard more um girls share stress and stress and concerns about family too. So those things all kind of um amplified a little bit. So um, yeah, the social media, um how many likes, followers, everything, everything. It's so that um but that's truly it that's a hard thing, but it truly is once again, it's what matters inward, what matters upward, and not what other people think.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

And that's a hard lesson, but we all have to learn it together.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Well, and I've even heard you say that a couple times just in this short time that we visited. So it's something that parents just kind of need to say over and over again to their daughters.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

Well, and moms can even admit if they have, you know, women have issues of what you see in other people online and what's not in your own. So you can share that experience too.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Yeah, no, I do think social media um, because it just becomes a comparison, and I feel like we always post the greatest and best pictures. We never post the real stuff. Yeah. And so if you're just scrolling and looking at that as a young girl, I mean, it can be kind of dangerous.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Yeah. Um, a couple I'm so thankful. Mine were it was before. Yeah. But as I've talked with other girls along the way and thought of different ideas with them, um, even um how to use it in a positive way. Yeah. Okay. A lot of stuff on there is really funny. Right. Humor is good. Right. So there's some things there. Um, but also like maybe if they may, you know, if they post something, you d make them stop and think about how does this come across to this person, to that person, you know. Or if there's something that upsets them that they see, try to think about it from and talk about it from different people's angles. So just being aware. Um, you know, because at that age, you're not aware of all.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Well, I do feel like a lot of the girls feel left out, right? There'll be a party and they post a picture and you weren't invited to that party. Um, so I feel like that brings on a lot of anxiety too. Um, kind of those those friendship relationships that we've always had growing up, they've always been difficult. I just think girls are hard, especially when you get three together, it can be hard. Um, but I feel like the social media pieces even added to that.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

It does. But at those points, you just have to, you know, help them have a different option, a different solution. You're left out of something. Okay, so what's something we can do? Perfect. Who's who's another person you can reach out to if you want to? I just try to help girls notice other people who may feel left out or just to be aware of it. Yeah. And um, a lot of times girls do something and somebody takes it one way and they never meant it that way. And so I don't know, just getting girls together and talking about things. But if if your daughter's the one who's left out, just helping her think of different different route, different path, different something to do, um, you know, that's hard.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

It is hard, but I love it because it kind of makes me realize that we're teaching them that they have control of their life and their world, right? Like you can look at that image and be feel like you're so left out, but I love how you said, yeah, but who could you invite over? Or like what do you have control over? Um, which I feel like sometimes we don't push them to do that. We don't push it in that way.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

So I love that. So I know that the girls obviously are feeling pressure just with the world that we live in. Um what do how what do we do with that? Like, how do we teach them to how to handle those that pressure?

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Okay. So I when I think of the discussing the pressures that they're they're all feeling, um, I kind of categorize it as as they're talking into three different kinds of areas. It's all their inner thoughts, all those thoughts in their head. Yeah. The worries, the stresses, all of that, the loneliness, the insecurity, that kind of thing. Yeah. And then the expectations they feel from so many different, from their friends, from their parents, from the school, you know, all the different expectations is kind of another category of what they feel. And then all the changes going through. Yeah. Um, you know, all the body changes, all the growing up, all the friendship changes, because sometimes friendships fade away and you have to find new ones, you know, and there's all kinds of changes going through, especially during those years. So um, there's really just the way that we kind of have to learn to build up their confidence again. And that's like we've said before, knowing they're not alone, they really need someone to just listen. Yeah. And let them feel safe and heard. And that's those inner thoughts, right? Yeah. They just um they don't know how to deal with all those things, everything coming at them. And so, um and and you had said, I heard you say sometime before that we just need to, you know, normalize that everybody feels that way. Right. And so how can we get through that and how can we build up our confidence? So the mom or mentor, whoever it is, um listening um and just giving them that safe space and hearing what they have to say. Yeah. And then knowing that they're loved, and then help them learn, like, okay, so what are some next next steps that you that we could take to learn how to deal and walk through? Because this is a life skill. It's it's with you forever. You kind of have to learn how to how to deal with it. But this uh just support them and um and uh you have to just initiate that next step is um find that hard um how did you word it? You said something like just finding that next step, take that risk, yeah, and take an action step, you know, um to if they're frozen in this social situation, they don't know what to do. Okay, so what's something that you could do? Let's brainstorm and think of options to help you through it.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Yeah, it's kind of role playing a little bit. I feel like sometimes, especially when they have that, they freeze up, they kind of need to role play. Yes. So they know what to expect. And so we actually encourage families to role play really young. But I mean, I did it with my girls. Okay, so we go to the party and your friend isn't there and you walk in. Who are you gonna connect with? What how are you gonna handle that? Definitely, you know, you go set the gate. Kip down and start observing who's at the party. Like just it sounds so silly, but sometimes role playing is so good for them.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

It's wonderful. And that's one of the favorite activities that we in girls' groups that they love to role play and act out all the things. Yes. And so then we give them a situation, they act it all out, and then we come, okay, what are some options? How to deal with this? I love it. And then have them roll, you know, react it out. Yeah. Yeah. They love to do that. So it helps just one-on-one though, talking through the options. Yes. You've got to be able to think through. Um, but I like to help girls think um, are they focused? Are the thoughts that kind of freeze them? Are they focused on what they want? Are they focused on what God wants? Are they focused on what other people want of them? So where's your focus? You know, um, it's it's hard to learn. I mean, you don't they don't just automatically think that way, but they can help them teach that way. Yeah. The number one thing is what does God think?

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Yeah, I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

And then what do you need and what do you want and take away the what everybody else around me thinks or wants.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Well, and I love that you said that, Holly, because I do feel like anxiety becomes a very selfish thought. Like you get so wrapped up with yourself in such an anxiety of what do people think about me or what it why are they me? It's all kind of me, me, me, me, me. And I love that sometimes you have to zoom out and realize that there's a big picture here. And the Lord the Lord is in control of all this. And sometimes it's not always about you. But I I just know from having a daughter with anxiety, we had to kind of help her zoom out and take the focus focus off of herself a little bit, um, and and then do all the role-playing or helping her through that way, which I love that you do that.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

And also, I like to challenge the girls to be the person that notices somebody else who's going through that and then help be their solution. Yes. And I have girls tell stories, um, I ask them, you know, what's one time that you felt awkward somewhere or alone or nervous? And um, how'd you get through that? And it's always a story about somebody who came and talked to him or met them, or you know, and so they all remember those tiny little moments, and it's like, okay, let's be that for somebody else. So take it off yourself once you kind of work through and help be the solution for other people.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Again, it's focusing on other people and being observant and seeing others' needs um and knowing that their needs are the same as yours. Like we all have those same needs, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

And we're all, I I just like to say, God creative females, we actually nurture support. We um, you know, bring life. And so that's the way girls are designed to be with each other too, to bring encouragement and support to each other. To just connect.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

We need connection. And I feel like the world is kind of a lonely place. Um, and we just need to connect with others. That's why I love your small groups because I think it just brings so much, so much joy to the whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Um, what about confidence? So, how do you help how do you build someone's confidence with that's had really anxiety, has had struggled with anxiety? I know it can affect confidence. How do you help that?

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Well, I I think of um help them remember a time where you did something really great, you know, or a time you overcame something. Um how can we turn this current thing into overcoming?

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

So like you said, the the small risks that they take, you know, what's something that we can um do? And how can you build up your own self inwardly? How can we fix thoughts that are in you? How can we strengthen your spirit, you know, work through these scriptures and learn to pray about specific things? And um sometimes the girls are surprised God really cares about those things. And I'm like, Yes, he cares. He's the He knows about them, He cares about Him, and He's the solution for how to get through this, He's the answer.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

So um just over time and convincing them overtime habits, um, because everything's so fast. Yeah. Spiritually, you know, growing in the Lord, nothing just happens automatically. It's a yeah, it's a thing that um strengthens over time. Okay, so Holly, do you think anxiety is hereditary? Kendra, I have no idea. Okay, that's not my world. Um I feel like that's more science-y level, that's not not me. But um uh what I what I think is I know we all deal with it. It's a human, it's back in Bible times. There's scriptures about it. Yes. So everyone deals with it. I know there's other levels that um need other types of help, right? But I speak to the just the basic overall human element that we all have.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Yeah. So I feel like there are I love that you said there's different levels. I mean, there are levels that we see here where the compulsive thoughts can't stop. Like definitely they need counseling or that's a whole different world. Maybe even medication, and that's not either one of our expertise. Correct. Um, and so what we're talking about is honestly, kind of every young girl that is in this world we live in struggles with friendships and social media and just the pressures of the world and giving them the tools to have some success, to know how to handle those tough situations so that they will step into them and be able to, like you said earlier, kind of build that confidence. Correct. Right? Yes. So my question was hereditary. I think that um I don't know. I don't either, and maybe it can be learned. Like if you're a mom that has a lot of anxiety, maybe that can be learned. Maybe your child has anxiety, but either way, I kind of don't think it even matters. I think it's more about just getting the girls the tools so they know how to handle anxiety and know what to do with it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Right? I yeah, I agree because it's it's a something that we have to deal with our whole lives. So helping them get through, learning any little steps that'll help them through. And I also like to kind of tell them how this is such a short span of life. Yes. And just give them a, you know, we've I've even done a a layout of a long piece of paper on the ground of your whole life and let you know, just sections. This is what life is full of. And this is one tiny little section. Yeah, you'll get through this.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Yeah. So I love that because it puts a into a little bit of perspective. Yes, and visuals they love well, it just seems like such a big deal, but really the whole lifespan, what they're going through isn't that big of a deal, it's just helping them cope through it and get through it.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Yeah, and just letting them hear other stories of girls who I've had older girls share their stories of what they went through in middle school and how they came through it. And yeah, there's life after these problems. These hard times.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Okay, so I have two things. We always, building all children believes in the Bible, so we always turn back to scripture. So I know that you brought a scripture with you today. Um, but my second thing, if I'm listening to this and I'm like, oh, I want my daughter to be in one of Holly's groups, how do they connect with you? Are you still doing groups? Are what what does your ministry look like?

SPEAKER_00 29:47

So I'm not leading groups right now. Okay. I've got that paused because I'm really um focused on um equipping other moms to be start leading groups. Okay. And I'm building a program for that. So I'm helping um moms or other mentors. Um, I've got products that I've used that are now available to them. I'm trying to grow this into a bigger community. Yeah, I love it. Of um, so I'm more focused on that part.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

Um, so I've got workbooks that moms or mentors can use. And if you got a group of moms, everybody's scared to do it. I was scared to do it when I started. Yeah. So we got a group together and it's like, hey, let's do this together. And you can get some moms, get a group of, you know, however many girls together, get one of the workbooks and start your own little it's like a five-week program to help through these issues. Okay. So I'm focused on building and coaching moms how to do this. Okay. So and I've got the um, if a mom is like, I'm not quite ready for that, I've got a book for just a mom and daughter to do together too.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

So that's an option. We have the workbooks for just handling anxiety. They can a girl can do on her own or with a mom. Um but I'm in an uh advanced training certification right now for coaching to kind of take me to the next level. So I'm in about a six-month program, and um I've got open I will have openings for moms or daughters to kind of work with one-on-one also. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

So for now they can go to your website and get your books. Yes. And then if this let's uh because I actually love that you're training kind of groups of moms to do this together. Cause then I feel like the friendship groups are kind of going through the same thing. Um, if they're interested in that, they could either just get the book and kind of dive into it or connect with you. Is that what I'm hearing?

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Definitely, yes. Yeah, they can call me, email. It's hooky at girls101.org. Um, email me. Um, you know, get on an interested list that I can get in touch with you about what's coming in the next few months. Awesome. Okay. I love it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

So that was I wanted the resource out there for families. Okay, okay. And then second, um, tell me your scripture. What's your scripture?

SPEAKER_00 32:05

The scripture that I love, it's Proverbs 1225, and it's an anxious heart weighs a man down, but a kind word cheers him up. And it's just an encouragement that um just how we reach out to each other. Yeah. Just to be kind, yeah, and be observant.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

And look for those people you can cheer up. I love it. I love it. Thank you. Thank you for just today and cheering and it's such an important topic. And I feel like there's not a ton of resources out there, um, especially local ones here in Tulsa. So you are a gift, Holly, and I'm so grateful for your time.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Well, I appreciate you so much. Yeah, thank you for letting me be out here with you. Yeah, it's been great.