Sensory Processing & Reflexes - What is it, what does it look like, and how do we help it?

In this episode of the Rise & BUILD Podcast, Kendra sits down with Occupational Therapist Heather Parmley, OTR/L to unpack the often-misunderstood topics of sensory processing and reflexes. What does it really mean when a child struggles with sensory input? How do retained reflexes impact learning, behavior, and daily functioning? And most importantly—how can we help?Together, Kendra and Heather break down the science in an easy-to-understand way, share practical insights, and offer hope-filled strategies for parents, caregivers, and educators who want to better support children where they are. Whether you’re just beginning to ask questions or looking for next steps, this conversation will equip you with knowledge, compassion, and encouragement to help children thrive.

For more Aha Moments visit https://buildingallchildren.org/podcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome. My name is Kendra Morgan, and I'm the host of the Rise and Build Podcast, where we hope to empower you to rise up and build a strong family, knowing you have to strengthen your hands to do the good work. Come with us as we rise and build. Hey you guys, welcome to the Rise and Build Podcast. Today I'm setting across from my good friend Heather Parmley, and we are gonna talk about sensory processing and reflexes. What is it? What does it look like? And how do we help it? Um, Heather, I'm so excited to visit about this. Me too. Okay, so this is what I know about you. I don't even know when we met. Do you know when we met? Was it exercise?

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Or was it? I don't remember if it I think we knew each other then. So I'm not real sure. Okay, I don't know. I just know that I got to know you and or maybe it was through Debbie. Maybe. So it's been 2015 or before. Okay. So it's been a while. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

And I have to say, my our tough kiddos, I mean, we send them to you. We love you. We love your heart. We love how you you like challenges, you're not afraid to take them on, and you figure out these kids. Um, and you make a big difference. And so we were talking about, so the team always talks about topics for this podcast. And um, I think it was Andy or maybe Melissa, but someone brought it up like we just have a lot of parents that don't understand sensory processing. The refluxes is a new word, like what does that mean? And um, so of course you were the one that came up. So when I called and asked you, it was hard to find time because your schedule is so busy. But I want our viewers to know about you. So tell tell us about you.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Well, I've been an occupational therapist for 28 years, and I love it. Every day I love it. I'm thankful every time I go in, you know, to work. Um, but I started out working with adults. So for the first 10 years, I was in inpatient rehab, um, some long-term care, so just primarily adults. And we had some PEADs on particular floors, like a brain injury floor I was on in Oklahoma City. Um, but I shifted after my first 10 years to pediatrics.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:23

And worked in Tulsa Public Schools and just kind of shifted all of my continuing ed and you know, training and shadowing everything, you know, for PEADs. Yeah. And have been doing that ever since. So about 18 years.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

Um, but I've been in public school, um, different settings here in the Tulsa area, and then in 2015 kind of put together a little schedule where I was in public school and private school, and then have been doing private schools since about 2017. Okay. Since then.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

And you have your own private practice.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

Yes. So we have a small, small group, but an amazing group. Uh such a good group. OTs. And we are in now we're in seven schools in the Tulsa area. That's great. So yeah, it's grown, but it's been amazing.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah, I love it. Love it, love it. Okay, so you are the one that we're gonna talk about this topic. So I my goal for today is I want um those families that get this diagnosis or hear that their child is struggling in school, I want them to be able to come to this and just gather some information. So my first question is what is sensory processing? Yes. Big. Oh, it's big, yeah. It's a big question.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

Um, we are all sensory beings, okay, all of us. And so sensory processing is that is the process where your brain and body, they're we're receiving information from our environment through all of our senses. Okay. The five that we've learned in school, like in elementary, right? And then we have others as well that we can talk more about, like movement and pressure, internal sensors. But we receive those senses, our brain interprets that information, and then we have a response. Or we may not, we might not be bothered by you know whatever we're receiving. But processing is that whole um, the whole process, like we're getting the information, our brain receives it, and then we have some kind of response. And so when we're regulated, the response is, you know, just normal, we get through the day. But if something is not connected and not regulated, it's almost like a traffic jam in the brain.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

And so that's why kids might have problems sitting in class or melting down at home, is because they've received a lot of information, something's not connecting quite right, or they can't handle it to feel regulated to get through the day or get through those roles in their lives.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Okay. So I want to talk about reflexes too. Do you think we should talk about them together or totally separate?

SPEAKER_03 4:56

I I mean, I see an overlap with how we treat. Um, they're different processes for sure. Um so we can kind of separate them and then we can put it together. Okay. You know what I mean? Yes. Okay, that would be good.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

So stick, we'll stick with the symptoms processing just so I didn't because it can get confusing. It can. But I think it's so important to know that they do kind of go together sometimes. Absolutely. So if I am watching this and I'm listening to this, and I have been called by the school that my kid won't stay seated or won't participate in circle time, or he's kind of all over the place, or she interrupts a lot and appears impulsive. And right, I mean, we get it all the time, these phone calls, and they're like, I think they maybe have ADD. Like that's where it always goes. And then as child development socialists, we'll assess them and we're like, I think it's some sensory stuff, right? Right. So, what would it look like if I had a child with some sensory processing? Like, what would I notice as a parent?

SPEAKER_03 5:55

Um, it can be very different because every, you know, child kids depressed is individual. But at home, there's some different things. If we kind of went through like the different sensations that we know for touch, like if we just dive into touch, some kids might not tolerate clothing. Okay. Different types of clothing, seams in their socks, tags in their shirts, the tightness of clothing, like those are some things that for the touch sensation, kids might not tolerate wearing. Pants, yes. That's a big deal. Right. Okay. Or things on their head. I mean, like even a beanie or something like that. But then touch can also affect grooming. I think of you know the kids that we have that have difficulty with um hair washing. Yes. Or um face washing. Yes, haircuts, nail trimming, like some of those things that they just they cannot tolerate and it can cause a meltdown. Okay. So those are kind of in that touch category. Okay. Um, and then if you really think about, you know, each sense, so like with vision, um, if kids are overstimulated or they pick up on too many cues, maybe they're oversensitive visually. They might not be able to focus on their work in the classroom because they're up looking at everything else going on in the classroom.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

They might notice, you know, when somebody walks across the classroom, they might notice simple changes in the classroom that other kids might not pick up on. Okay. So they're like over-sensitive to things visually.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Yes. And it looks like they're just focused distractions that it's not. It might right.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

It might just be something with their their senses where they're oversensitive to that. Okay. And we can help them and we'll, you know, talk about that more too. Um and auditorily, auditorily is the same way. I mean, like they could pick up on things with their ears and sound that others might not, but it might bother them. And I think of like when the air conditioner comes on. Yes. Or even with the lights going back to like like the fluorescence. Yes. Like when they flicker. Yes. That might and they hum too. They do hum. Yes. So some kids might pick up on that and it's distracting, or some might not, and they can focus and get through the day. So those are the things that parents might notice too. Um, also with sound, just kids that are overly sensitive to sound. Um, we notice kids have difficulty with like the automatic toilets flushes. Like that's like it's scary and it's unexpected. They don't know when it's coming and it's loud. And dryers, automatic dryers in the bathrooms. Yes. Um, and even crowds, like um when kids have to transition to go to the cafeteria or um the gym or a chapel or an assembly in their school when there's crowds and the you know, acoustics are different in a room, and they can't tolerate that. That's a sign, you know, that something's not right. Something they need support. We need to help them. Um what else? We've got movement. Um and that well, and taste and smell too. Yeah. I mean, I don't notice those as much as like a primary um disturbance or complaint. But when we start digging, sometimes that's when we notice more.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:01

Um, I had one recently, a sensory profile from a parent, and it was more like movement and seeking. But then she was like, you know what? He can remember smells and like how it reminds him of some place.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

And so he was like sensitive, not where it bothered him, but just like that was something that was significant for him for memory.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Yeah, okay. So I have a story because it's blown. The senses, I love them because they're so fascinating to me. We had a little girl that had never been a behavior issue. She had had some trauma, but had never been a behavior issue and became kind of this behavior issue. We could not figure out why. And so we went to the school, observed, and she just had something with her teacher, kind of against her teacher. We could not figure it out. Well, we brought in grandma and we met, and the grandma was like, What perfume do you wear? So the mother, the biological mother, had passed away, and the teacher was wearing the same perfume as the mom. And we were like, It's her sense of smell. Wow. She's picking that up. Is that not wild? It's amazing that grandma figured that out. I know. Well, I think she smelt like her daughter, you know, but it just, it's those little things that if you're not aware of it, right? We would have just looked totally past all that and never figured it out. So, anyways, I that triggered me when you were saying about that. So, yeah, so touch and smell. I feel like it's not one that comes up very often to us, but it can be a trigger.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Taste can, and that's usually something we figure out later on too. But some kids, I mean, that might disrupt their whole meal time, like being, you know, extra sensitive to taste or food aversions eater. Yeah, that's like a whole other, you know, that could be a specialty for an OT or speech therapist to work on food aversions. Yes. And that is sensory related too. Um, but other senses, like the ones I love to work on and talk about is the vestibular sense. So that's our sense of movement. It tells us it the receptors are in our inner ears and it tells us where our head is in relationship to gravity to the earth. And so look if our head's upside down or if we're moving linear or rotary, that's the sense for vestibular. And so that one for kids, like if if that one um needs some support or if they're extra seeking in the vestibular category, those are the kids that can't stop moving. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Or maybe spinning, they love to spin.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

Or falling out of the chair. Yes. Rocking. So they're seeking that movement. And as adults, we do that in different ways because vestibular input can be calming and organizing to our nervous system. So that's why we like rocking chairs, yeah. Most of us. Right. And swings. Yeah. If you think of that movement, it's calming. And so kids, you know, they're trying to seek that movement sometimes, you know, where they're overly seeking it in a classroom where it can be, you know, disturbing and distracting to others. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Do ear infections affect your vestibular system? Yes, absolutely. So if you have a child with a lot of ear infections, is something to kind of think about.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

Right. Okay. Just to observe and make sure, yeah. Some kids don't like having their feet off of the ground on playground equipment. Yeah. Like they're scared. We call it gravitational insecurity. Yeah. And that can be related to the vestibular system as well.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Okay. That's good to know.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

Okay. And then the proprioceptive system, my other favorite.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

Um, that's our sense of pressure. And so we have receptors in our joints and muscles that give our brain information about how much pressure we're receiving or we're giving, we're pushing. But that system also can be calming and organizing for the nervous system. But when kids are having difficulty with receiving and processing that information, they might be the kids pushing too hard or leaning on things, um, draping themselves over objects or people. Like they're seeking touch and pressure.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

So these are the kids.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

They play hard with toys, they run and crash into the sofa. Yes. They get in trouble in the line because they're constantly bumping the kid in front of them. Right. They're kind of these deep seeker kiddos. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

Yes. So those are some of the things that you would see, yes, in the classroom and at home.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Okay. So it's so good to kind of just throw some of that out because if you get that phone call from the school and your child is doing some of this stuff, to me, the positive thing is it can be fixed. Right. There's a lot of help that these children can receive. Right. Right. So can we talk about what that looks like? Sure. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:35

Yes. So, like for movement, you want to just kind of go through the phone. Yeah, let's just go through them. Tell me all. I want to know it all. One of the things we teach kids and teachers, I mean, like one of the top things I feel like I'm teaching every week is teaching kids how to give themselves proprioceptive input. Okay. So pressure input. Okay. Because they can do it right at their seat. Love it. And so for any age, and for our little ones, they have, you know, carpet time, circle, or floor time. Um, and then our older kids, they might not. They might just be at the desk or their table. But teaching them to press their hands together as tight as they can. I mean, pressing each finger, pressing the palm of their hand, and then pulling. So hooking their fingers and pulling as tight as they can. And then chair push-ups or seat push-ups. So they could do it crisscross, like ride in circle time, or they could do it in their chair, and we teach them to do it small so it's not distracting to their neighbor. But we're just teaching them like you can give your body a good input that makes you reset, refocus. And we explain it to them at their level of understanding, but I tell them this is your toolbox. Yes. And we're teaching you tools for this toolbox that you can use in class. Love it. So we teach. There's a lot of Ps, and this is kind of fun. I say you you got press, pull, and push-ups. Okay. But you also have a pause button. And this kind of goes into reflexes. I know we'll get there, but it that's why it kind of goes together for me. Yeah. Is we're teaching them strategies for sensory input, but also for like impulse control.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:07

And so, and that goes with sensory too. If they're seeking movement and we need them to pause, I tell them another tool is their pause button. And I explain, like, only you can control your pause button. Mom and dad can't control it. Your teacher can't control it. Only you can. Love it. And that pause helps you make a good choice. Okay. To give yourself an input or to take a breath.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:29

Or to wait and not interrupt. So that's another, and then pretzel crunch, another P. So just teaching them like to fold up at their desk, you know, if they're if they're older and they're not on the floor, just like crossing their arms, just taking a breath in a crunch position. If they're able to crisscross on the floor, taking some deep breaths to calm down.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Okay. And so when they're doing all the peas, um, what is that doing? So providing deep pressure, but what does that deep pressure do?

SPEAKER_03 15:57

So for the pressure wins, that is an input to the nervous system. Okay. Through the proprioceptors. Okay. That's calming and organizing for the nervous system.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:06

And so when with the pause that I was talking about, like the pause button, we're addressing impulse control.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

Just helping them know like they have that choice to make a pause, to make a good choice. But that has to be kind of repeated outside those moments. Yes. So that they know, you know, those tools. Because inside the moment when they are impulsive and, you know, maybe falling apart or, you know, losing it. Um, that's a hard time to go through these strategies. We need to teach them before and after, you know, and all the times in between.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

And then pretzel crunch would be it's it is pressure, but it's also deep breathing. So it's, you know, more physiological as well, or decreasing heart rate and decreasing breathing just for calming.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Okay. So I've heard you say a couple times a seeker. Uh-huh. Well, if I'm listening to this and I'm like, what is a seeker? So could you explain that a little bit?

SPEAKER_03 16:57

So that would be the the student or child that's overly seeking inputs, whether it's touch, um, like touching all the objects, you know, in the classroom or at home, or the child that's walking down the hall with their hand on the hall the whole way. Um, they are seeking more. Whereas uh the opposite would be an avoid behavior, avoiding behavior. So where they don't like touch, they don't like hugs. So it's kind of, I think, easier to understand when you look at the opposites too. Um and we all we're kind of if we're regulated, we're probably somewhere in the middle where we're not overly seeking textures and touch. Um we might, you know, check something out, but we're okay. We don't have to like have it with us all the time. Um, but then we're not necessarily avoiding textures or touch as well. We're kind of in that middle. So yeah, that seeking is the extra. It could be movement where you might look at a classroom of kids and they're, you know, sitting and you know, getting their work done, but you might have the kid that's kicking legs or leaning on their head or turning all around, like seeking movement, seeking input, whether it's it could be visual, they're seeking visual input or that movement input, which we see a lot, the crashing. Right. Kids that like to, you know, fall out of the chair some sometimes on purpose for that input. Yes. Sometimes it's not related to you know other things like core strength, but it's the it's the over and beyond the norm of of what our body's needing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

And I heard you use the word regulation. So you're doing all the peas to help their body get regulated. Yes. Which allows them to focus and kind of do what the teacher would want them to do.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

To get through their day. Yes. Yes, because if you have a child that's dysregulated, they can't focus. They can't, sometimes they can't listen to instruction. They're not going to receive it the same way because they're distracted or they're, you know, seeking something and they're not receiving that information. Um, when kids are dysregulated, we see behaviors. Yeah. And that's when we can see meltdowns. I think of kids um at the beginning of the day as an empty cup. And all these sensory experiences that they receive throughout the day is like pouring water into that empty cup. And some days, some things might feel like pouring a lot of water, like maybe they didn't like breakfast and they don't like their shirt, their socks are too tight, running late, it's raining. I mean, like all the things like think of our day when things aren't just smooth and easy for a child, it's almost exacerbated because I mean their brains are still growing and maturing and making those neural connections. So it's different. But if their cup is full, like like they met the threshold, that's when we see behaviors.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:41

And so my role and what I want to teach kids, parents, and teachers is how can we provide good inputs throughout the day so that kids are regulated, so that that threshold isn't met.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 19:53

So that we don't get there as fast, so that they might get movement they need throughout the day strategically, like a sensory diet, like looking at their schedule, planning some good motor breaks and sensory input throughout the day, so that when things come up that are frustrating, a change in schedule, yeah, they can handle that and tolerate it. They don't have that boiling point as quick.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yes, exactly. So how do I know? Because I mean, some tantrums are normal in development. How do I know if it's a normal tantrum or if like, okay, something's not right? Yes. How do I know that?

SPEAKER_03 20:28

I think that's hard. I think first we have to know the child and know some patterns and know some background. Okay. Um, but I feel like just really paying attention to environment helps a lot too. Agreed. And like backing up and thinking about their day. Like I was talking about, like, what all happened before this? You know, are they just throwing a fit because they're mad about losing a game? Yeah. Or did they did something happen earlier in their day, or did they not rest well? Have they not been feeling great? I think we have to look at that whole picture to determine if it's just a behavior choice or if it's truly like we are overwhelmed and melting down and losing it.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Yeah. And I also to can determine on if they can kind of regroup themselves, like a true tantrum, they can get pretty mad, they'll end up recovering. But a true sensory where they need some stimulation and need some output, they might need help with that, right? And need assistance. They might need you to step in and hold them or help them get regulated.

SPEAKER_03 21:28

Right. To shift, and I feel like shifting attention to to get sensory input is helpful too. Like, let's go swing. Let's go take a walk, let's put on some headphones with music. Yeah. So you're giving good inputs to help them for calming down. Yes, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Okay, so if I'm listening to this and I'm thinking, okay, this is my daughter, this is my son. Um, talk to us a little bit about an evaluation. What does that look like? Goals, therapy. Let's start with the evaluation.

SPEAKER_03 21:59

Sure. So For if it's a primarily sensory-based evaluation, we would it's a lot of observation and interview. And so we would give the parents a sensory profile to complete and it goes through every sensory category and they rate how often they see a certain response or behavior in that category. Okay. So some of the things are specifically like movement, pursues movement to the point of interfering with daily routines. Okay. Or touches objects more, touches objects or people more than others.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:33

Um, distracted by noise, distracted by TV. And so they get to pick a percentage, like almost always, frequently, half the time, okay, and lower. Um, so the parents get that, and that creates a great picture for us to see what they're noticing at home. Yes. And then if the you know child is school age, we give one to the teacher. Okay. And so it has more school-based questions. It's pretty in-depth.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

Um, but it's great for us to see because typically they're they're different. You know, they're not going to be exactly the same what the parents observe and what the teachers observe. And it can most of the time, I would say there's more behaviors or responses observed in school or it's higher frequency compared to home. Yes. Um, because it's more structured, yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

More ex expectations. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:20

And so we put all of that information together and interpret it for parents and make goals. Like, how can we help support the student at home and in the classroom setting by giving them good inputs throughout the day?

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

And so we would make goals to I want the kids to understand what they're feeling. So we talk about that a lot. Like we talk about zones of regulation and feelings, and we relate it, you know, to sensory. Like, how can we use something you've learned, like press and pull, to give your body that input it needs to calm down? Love that. Or to get through the day. And so our goals are they're it's tricky, they're not very measurable. It's more observed and response from parent or teacher on how they're making progress because it's hard to put a number on that. Yeah, but they do, they make progress. For sure.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

I mean, once they get into the OT and learn kind of how to regulate their body, we see so much progress with them.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

Yes. So the goals we want children to recognize they need something. Like my body's not feeling calm. Right. I need to do something, and they know some strategies or tools in their toolbox. Right. But we're sharing that information with teachers and with parents. We make a home exercise program. Love that. Even for, you know, kiddos that are just working on sensory. We would make a home program for them to have those good inputs if they're school age before school, after school evening.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 24:41

Um, and then we also have a list of strategies we share with teachers that are strategies they can do right in the classroom. Okay. With all the kids, which would probably be great for teachers to do with everybody because most kids need a motor break and most kids need heavy work. Yes. And obviously some need it more than others, but everybody would benefit from just doing some breaks and sensory input throughout the day.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Yeah. What about those families we hear all the time? He does so good at school. When he gets home, he is a mess. Yes. Can you talk about that? Sure. I feel that a lot of holding it together all day long. Exactly. Get in their safe place. And it's rough.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

And it's that cup back to that empty cup. They most of our kiddos, I feel like, know right and wrong. Yes. They want to please, they want to do the right thing, you know, make their teacher happy and the adults in the school. And so if they are holding it together and working harder than somebody that a peer that doesn't have to work as hard at that, but they're getting all this sensory input all day long and they're trying to hold it together and make good choices and be still and listen. And they're working harder at it because of their system, not as regulated. When they get home, that's when they fall apart. And that's when we see those behaviors, like with tantrums or being stubborn or uncooperative or getting frustrated easily. Yes. Those are with siblings. Yes. And those are the behaviors like in the avoiding category because they're overwhelmed.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:08

So what do you recommend? What do you what would you tell a parent? Well, that's when I feel like if we can give them inputs throughout the day, yes, and we can share that with teachers. Like if he can have this child, if he can have, you know, um a motor brake where he can pull a wagon that's loaded or stack the books in your classroom, or please, you know, send him with a note down to the office so he gets a walk. Yeah, carry a heavy book while you're walking. Yes. Yes. Any heavy book. Even in the playground, like, you know, whenever they're out there, we let them do what they want. But let's let's tell Billy to go hang on the monkey bars and you know, count to 20. Yeah. You know, just like helping them plant those seeds for the heavy work input and the movement input, whatever they need, so that they're getting some things throughout the day so that that frustration at home and that release is less. Love it. But even getting home, I tell parents all the time, like have them swing or do heavy work before school and after school. Yes. Like don't worry about it. Don't worry about homework and stuff. Let them have that good input after school to reset.

SPEAKER_04 27:10

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

That's good. Good, good, good. Okay, can we jump into reflexes? So I feel like I feel like you are kind of the expert in this field for sure. And there's a lot of people that don't know about it. Right. We are seeing so much of it. And so we even had you come in and you trained as child development specialists kind of what to look for when we assess children. Um, but talk to us about reflexes. Sure. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_03 27:36

So when we say reflexes, we're talking about primitive reflexes. Okay. So we are all born with them and they serve a purpose in development. Okay. And so one, I feel like parents typically remember when I'm going over reports and talking about reflexes, when babies before they start rolling and they're lying on their back, and if they turn their head to the left, their left arm will go straight and their right arm will bend. And the legs do the same thing. It's like a little bow and arrow. Okay. Because it's a pre-rolling reflex. That's the ATR, the asymmetrical tonic neck reflex. Okay. And the words don't matter right now. No, I love it. Unless you're, you know, if your child is having some reflex difficulty, we would explain all of that. But the the point is like they serve a purpose in development.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

And once developmental milestones are met, that connection is made in the brain. Okay. Where we don't need that reflex any longer. Okay. So that means it should go away, or we say integrated. Right. Like the connection set, we don't need it. Yes, it's kind of. That milestone was met. Yes. So they are building blocks for development. But what happens, sometimes kids they might not integrate for different reasons. Um, some reasons might be um traumatic event or illness, like infancy or childhood, okay. Can affect reflexes. Sometimes reflexes can be integrated and then something happens and then they appear. It's like they come back, they we regress and they come back. Okay. Yes. Or maybe kids skipped a milestone. Okay. Like maybe somebody didn't crawl. Crawl. I knew you're going to say that. That's the one we see in like report, like developmental profiles, like, uh, they didn't crawl. They just went straight to walking. When there's a lot of good things that happen in development during crawling. Yes. But also reflexes are, you know, connected in some of those stages. So we test for about five to six reflexes when we do evaluations. We want to make sure we're not seeing something that could be causing difficulties with motor attention, core strength, um, even like impulse control, like balance and um startle responses. Yes. And so reflexes can affect those things. And that's why it does kind of for the impulse control, it kind of flows into sensory for me as far as how I'm thinking how to treat and how to help.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

Um, when we see reflexes present, for me, I feel like, okay, we know we have a plan, we know what to do. So I try to encourage parents, like, you know, this is present, this is present, and they might feel like, oh gosh, what happened? What did we do? I want to encourage parents and say, no, like we know what to do, we have a plan. Because children's brains are growing and changing and making new connections every day. Yeah. And with reflex integration, that treatment or modality, we're using purposeful movement with the body to make that connection in the brain. Okay. So that it is integrated and no longer influences them any longer. Okay. And the research shows us you could do a reflex exercise for 30 days and that connection could be made in the brain. But amazing. I tell parents, I'm not gonna tell you to do something every day because I couldn't. I know, I know. So I say we see good progress if parents are consistent with home exercises that we recommend. We see progress within about three months. Okay. I mean, just being realistic.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

So if I'm listening to this and I'm like, they don't even live in Tulsa, they can't get to you. Could you provide some exercises for them to work with their kiddos, or would you have to evaluate them to know what reflex to work on?

SPEAKER_03 31:06

I would feel better evaluating and putting my hands on and checking some things, but there's really good resources. Okay, what are those resources? Integrated learning strategies is the website. It's like ILS, but integrated learning strategies website has a great just library of articles and information on reflexes. Okay. And so that's a great resource. But there's also therapists, OTs and PTs on Instagram that have great, you know, input as well. One of them is Erin Wiggins. Okay. And her Instagram is your everyday OT. Okay. So that's a good one to follow. Okay. Um, there's a physical therapist, um, Conactive Kids. Yes. Do you know that one? Yes. Did I say it right? Yes, I think you're that one's another one that I follow and has good information. So there's great information out there. Okay. Um, I would just not want to recommend without like, you know, seeing a child in person. Yeah, no, but there's even exercises out there.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Because even some of those books have little at-home screenings that you can kind of do too. Um, we're all a big fan of OT, so if you get to the right OT, I think that's probably the way you should go if you really are having some concerns. But I think the resources there are a great way to kind of dive into it to learn a little bit more for sure. What else do you want to share about reflexes?

SPEAKER_03 32:25

Um, just hope and encouragement.

unknown 32:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Because if we're, you know, seeing them and we and they've been screened or we know that's the cause, like we know what to do. Yes. We can help.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 32:37

And the follow-through at home is key. It makes all the difference in the world to follow through.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

I mean, we have seen children come in almost getting kicked out of school. And we are like, this is what it is. We've gotten them to the right OT, gotten them some help, and we've seen huge improvements in behavior and the pause button. I mean, all of that impulsiveness and balance and it's being able to sit and focus longer. And I mean, it just if it gets treated, it really, really, really can help.

SPEAKER_03 33:08

Right. And a lot of parents ask, well, what does that mean for my child in the classroom? Yeah. Like if that reflex is present, what does that mean? Yeah, that's and some of the things that can be affected. That one I was talking about the ATR. If you think of a student who's in first grade and that's present, they are moving their head from, say, looking at the teacher to looking at their paper or looking at a smart board and looking at their paper. And that head movement can subtly affect arm movement or body movement, or they might lose their place on their paper by the time they come back down and look at it. So, like visually, you know, or motor can be affected by that head movement. Okay. So that's just like one little example of how the reflexes can affect a child in the school setting. And even the moro reflex is one that we see so much.

SPEAKER_04 33:54

I'm surprised you didn't talk about that one.

SPEAKER_03 33:56

That one we see, I think all so many kid items are struggling with that one. That's our fight or flight response. And so kids that have that moro present, they could be impulsive or have difficulty with emotional regulation or with transitions, like stopping an activity to go shift to another one or moving from class to art or peace, going to a special, changing back to the classroom. Like those transitions are difficult for them. Um and even kiddos like having difficulty transitioning from the car to get out to go to school. Yes. I've had a few kids struggling with that recently.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 34:33

Um, and it can be some kind of attachment, but also it could be that that flight, fight or flight response, like, you know, I don't want to do this, I can't go to school. And so we need to check for that reflex, work on exercises to integrate that in the brain, but also provide some good sensory input to help them regulate for I'm thinking of the kiddo having difficulty getting out of the car so that they can transition. Love it. So the sensory piece, like to jump, we're working on reflexes at home, but then we could give them a transition object. And I've told a couple of parents recently pick one thing that its only job is to get them from the car into the classroom or in back, and it goes in the backpack and it doesn't come back out. It could be a little stuffed animal or a hot wheel, something small, but its special job is to help your child get from the car and out and into the classroom. Yeah, it's good. So you can kind of, you know, we're putting a little bit together with you know, sensory and reflexes, but and strategies.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Well, and that's what's hard is sometimes they do just kind of go together. Yes. Um, and so I think knowing the difference and yeah, how they kind of go together is just so important. Yes. So okay, so building all children always kind of wraps up with the scripture. Um, so I know that you are gonna do that. Before we get to that part, do you have anything else you want to add about sensory therapy reflexes, any encouragement to parents? Sure.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

I just think if they have any concerns to reach out to a resource, you know, if they are in our area in Tulsa, you all are a great resource, but even if they're not, you can help them connect with a resource. Um, and then the books. I mean, you and I both love the out of sync child. We do. And that's a book that we both recommend to parents often because it explains things so well for sensory processing. Yeah. And like how, you know, our brains are all different. Yeah. And we're all sensory beings. Right. And you know, some adults might still twirl their hair or chew on a pen or shake their foot. Yeah. And we're regulating, but some kids, you know, they cannot do that. Right. And we want to help them and support them. So just I just want to encourage parents, like, reach out because there's great resources out there.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:44

So if your child is struggling, um, just reach out. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Can a child outgrow sensory processing?

SPEAKER_03 36:52

I think they learn strategies. Like I said, we're all sensory creatures and beings, but I think their behaviors absolutely will change as they grow, but they're learning how to regulate and you know what they might need. Like I might need a tight shirt today to feel to feel good in my body. So I think we just it's it matured out. Yes. Yes. And it's more socially appropriate.

unknown 37:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

So that you can chew gum, yeah, you know, to get an input that you're needing. Or, you know, you can rock in a rocking chair when you need to. So I think we just learn what's more appropriate so I can still get that need.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Kind of what our body needs as we age a little bit. Yes. Yeah, I agree. And I think I tell parents all the time, because we do a sensory profile, not to diagnose sensory processing, but just to see if they're off to go to give for an evaluation. And I tell them all the time, sometimes I could test them two weeks later and it would look different. Our senses are changing all the time. Right. And it depends on the world we're living in. And I always say, you would not score perfect either, and neither would I. Like we're all we all have a little bit of it. Yes. Um, and then the world we live in can kind of affect that too. So anyways, yeah, that's important to know that it's not a pass or fail, I guess is what I'm saying. It changes, um, which can make it kind of difficult because they can do really good for a while, but then get really dysregulated and not do good. Right. You know, right. So it's kind of a little bit of a roller coaster. It can be for sure. Yeah. Okay, scripture. Back to the scripture. Do you have a scripture you want to share with us?

SPEAKER_03 38:22

I think when you asked me this, I was really thoughtful on what I think about every day to apply to work. And there's several truths from the Bible that I think of every day. Just that I and I can say this in some settings that I'm in, which I love, but just that we're working with God's kids and they're all created in his image. Love it. And so when we're serving them, and I pray for discernment, I pray for God to show me what he sees because we know that he knows every hair on their head. He knows what's going on in their brain and body. Yes. And so I just I and I'm encouraged by that. Just that he already knows the answers, and I'm this vessel that's just doing the work for him. Not only for his children, young children, but his grown-up children, like the parents and the teachers. Like we're just used by him to take care of his kids. And so I'm just encouraged by that. Not just one verse, but I mean so many. I know. Um, for you know, just when we're anxious and when we're down, and you know, we're just knowing that he's in control and he's got us. And yeah, um, at some of our schools where I'm allowed to, right, I love being able to say, God made your brain and body so amazing, yes, that you can do things with your body that make connections in your brain.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 39:35

And I love telling kids that and parents that just to encourage them. Like, this is how amazing you are.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

I love it. No, and I think if um I'm a parent listening to this, it's so encouraging that there's just hope. We've got this big, big God that cares so much about their children, and through him, he's gonna guide the right people, and he's just their provider. So kind of take a deep breath. It doesn't, we don't have to be the fixers. We're not the fixers, but we are the connectors, so we have to connect them to the right resources and then let the Lord fix. Yes. I love it. I do. Thank you. We could probably talk a whole like couple hours on this topic. Um, but I think it's great information to get out there. We will have you back because I love it. Love you to pieces, and I want you back, and I love your knowledge, and I think more families need to hear the wisdom that you have. Thank you. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

Thank you so much.