Social Interactions - Why Are So Many Children Struggling?

This topic is for ALL children & families! So many children today are struggling with social interactions — but why? In this episode, Kendra sits down with speech pathologist Stephanie Barton to unpack the concept of pragmatic language — the social side of communication that helps kids connect, cooperate, and thrive. Stephanie explains why these skills are essential, what it looks like when they’re missing, and how parents and educators can help children BUILD this area.

Join us for a practical and encouraging conversation that will help you better understand how to support your child’s social development.

For more Aha Moments visit https://buildingallchildren.org/podcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome. My name is Kendra Morgan, and I'm the host of the Rise and Build Podcast, where we hope to empower you to rise up and build a strong family, knowing you have to strengthen your hands to do the good work. Come with us as we rise and build. Hey you guys, welcome to the Rise and Build Podcast. I am sitting across from Stephanie Barton. Um, she is one of my favorite speech pathologists, and I have a lot of speech pathologist friends. So just want you to know that.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Well, my head, I'll try to keep my head within the screen then. It's kind of blowing up here.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Um I do. We refer to you often, and you get to help a lot of the Building Ill children um children. But today's topic is social interactions and why are we seeing more children struggle with them? Whew.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

It's a big one. It's a big one. And I don't think COVID helped us. No. So no, no, no. I agree with that. I don't think social media, phone acts, all of these things are pulling people away from each other. Yes. And away from connection.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Agreed. Agreed. So we're gonna dive into this. I know you are kind of specialized in pragmatic language. So we're gonna talk a little bit about that. But I want our listeners or our viewers to know that we were really talking about all children. And so the whole reason this topic came up, you know, building all children team, we pray about topics and then we kind of figure out who the Lord wants that person to be to come share. This topic came up. I was sitting on my back porch and I had a Building All Children mom text me and she said, Where can I find a class for my typical smart new teenager that doesn't know how to greet people, doesn't know how to interact, can't socially read a room. And I was like, There, there's not, like, there's not a class. And she said, Would you start one? And I was like, Oh, I don't think I can start another program. So I think I reached out to you and I said, Hey, do you want to start a program? So we kind of started talking about this. So this is really where this topic came from. And we are seeing it. I mean, my husband and I, we were waiting in line and we were watching kids socially interact, waiting for their parents to pick them up. They don't. They look down at their screens and they it's awkward if they don't have their device in their hand. They don't know how to interact. I feel like, I mean, I'm getting way off, but I even feel like young men or young boys don't know how to ask girls out anymore. No, they're not bold and going up and asking them out on dates and asking them to go get coffee. And so we're seeing so many young 20-year-old girls not married because the boys aren't asking. Right. It's a problem. It's a problem. Okay, so let's back up because obviously we're early childhood. I'm talking about 20-year-olds, but um, let's let's talk about pragmatic language. If I'm listening to this and I want my kid to be more social, everyone needs pragmatic language. 100%. What is that?

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Pragmatic. So in my field, and I can pick up so social speech pathology covers, you know, this, a wide array of delays, disorders, nuances in development. And one of those areas is social language, right? So when we're talking about social language, we're talking about a child who can enter a social situation, read that situation, and then apply or use appropriate language to navigate that situation. And it's a lot of responsibility. It is. And if you if a child doesn't feel comfortable or doesn't know what to say, or even what I'm finding is that kids have really a hard time initiating.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Yes. So, and if you don't initiate, then you don't connect. Right. You don't learn about other people, you don't build connections with people.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Right. So we're seeing more and more children feeling lonely. And I think a big key factor is this topic. So when the kids are little, when I was a mom and I had two or three year olds, and someone handed them something, I would always say, Oh, tell him thank you. Like I taught them how to have manners. I taught them what to say, what not to say. But I think what's happening is these children are getting in this six, seven, eight-year-old age and we're not teaching those skills anymore. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Yeah. I and I don't know why it's I don't know why it's fallen off. Because I think and and what you're saying is exactly right. Like we learn how to socialize. We learn how to communicate in social situations, and we learn by doing. Right. And so I guess part of my brain is thinking, are are is it not getting taught and is it not being learned because it it's not being modeled and and these situations are less like they're not in these opportunities, they're not getting these opportunities.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Right. Right. And and and I think if they have the opportunity to be social, there are children that have phones so young that if they're in an awkward situation where they have to communicate and talk with a friend, it's easier to look down at a screen. It's an escape. Than actually talk, you know, and ask the questions how was your day? How'd you do on that test? What are you doing tomorrow night? You know, I mean it's those connections just aren't happening. They're just not happening, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:54

And the phone can be easily be used. I think everyone probably does this. I mean, I do it in certain situations to kind of for me to just kind of look busy. Yes. Because to me, and I and I teach my clients this like everybody is always reading you and making judgments or may or having thoughts about how you're acting. And my thought is if you're not looking at someone and your head is down and you look busy, people are thinking they don't want to be interrupted. Yes. And so you are basically riding off an opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Yes. Right. I love it because it's like even I'll be around families, um, or even I've done it. Well, I'll say, put your phone down if someone's talking to you. But I don't go on and say in the car, say, when someone looks at you, it's rude to look at your phone. Uh-huh. You know, like it almost needs to be not in public, not to embarrass the kids. Right. But it just has to be taught a different way.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Yes. I think there is a word. It's like where you, and of course I'm gonna have word findings because we're talking on a podcast, but it's where you are being very intentional with that teaching. And I think when it comes to social pragmatic things, there is a lot of assumption happening on the part of a lot of people, parents. Um, we just assume that our kid is watching our model, right? We assume they're picking it up, right? And we don't necessarily, I think, check to make sure that it's being learned. Right. We're assuming it's being learned. Right. We're not, we're not being intentional to see like, is it being learned?

SPEAKER_02 7:41

Okay, so could we just, I'm putting you on the spot. Oh gosh. Could we just throw out some things that we feel need to be taught socially? Like let's just, I'm gonna throw some out, you throw some out. Um, and that way if if we have someone listening to this, they can kind of say, Oh, well, I've never thought to teach my child that. Or my son doesn't know to do that. My daughter doesn't know to do that. So my first thought is to teach the boys to open the door. I think it's polite. I think it shows good manners. Some people would think that's old school, but my son knows to open the door. If a lady is walking in, he's gonna open the door for me. That's right. What what what thoughts do you have?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

I think and that's situational, right? That's situational pragmatics. It definitely has to be taught, and it's gender specific. Yes, right? Yes. Um, but there are so many other small details in there, like looking at a person. Yes. Right? Shaking a hand, yes, greeting them, greeting, um, you know, uh reporting that you're there, letting alerting someone, small talk, yes, ordering from a reception stand or a restaurant, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

Knowing how to go up to someone and ask where the restroom is.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Um, I mean needing help. I'm I'm thinking like, what would that topic be? Like requesting assistance.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

Yes. Or they're noticing that someone's carrying too heavy of a grocery bag and stepping in.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Consideration, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

Right. I mean, it it kind of goes on and on, but I think some of these skills have got to be taught.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

They've got to be taught. And I think also on even going a step further, is letting that child know why. Yes. Why is it important to look at someone? Why is it important to shake a hand? Why is it important to greet someone, say good morning, ask how are you? Yes. And I think when you teach that why, it makes a whole lot more sense rather than like this is just what we do.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Right. Yeah, because then it just becomes robotic. Like they just do it because they're supposed to, versus understanding the meaning and the feeling behind it. And so, and I just think too, we're not like for instance, we were over at some friend's house and they had a little baby, adorable. Oh my gosh, so cute. And she kept crawling after their cat. And every time she would get close to the cat, they'd scoop her up. Well, she thought it was a game, but they didn't want the cat to attack her. Right. And so I was just like, just tell her no. Like, she can't touch the cat. You like start coaching her.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

How about a boundary?

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Um, so I just feel like it's just teaching them the right and wrong. Right. And maybe it's COVID.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Do you think it's COVID? I don't think COVID has helped. Okay. Because what did COVID do? COVID isolated families, kids. Yes. Kids quit going to school. Yes. Social is learned in action. I mean, definitely you can do things at home to teach us, but I think you need those social situations to practice this and to model it. Right. Um, so yeah, it definitely affected things because people weren't out socializing. Right. You know, we weren't allowed to. So now I see, I am, I agree with you. I'm seeing a group of kids now, and maybe more, and I know it's more than what I've seen, but they don't know.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

They don't know how to do these, what we would consider natural, simple. It's not natural and simple to this, this group of kids that are coming up in the age of COVID.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

I agree. I agree with that. And even on sports, knowing how to encourage a teammate, knowing how to help a kid up from the floor, knowing not what to say to a coach when he gets onto you or motivates you, or it's it's there's so there's and I have done, I almost you can go on a deep dive and go down rabbit holes because I've thought, man, there needs to be some sort of program that actually breaks down because there's so many.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

There's so much. And you know, we want to make sure we're teaching those different, those different types of social engagement, those different types of social communication. Right. Because they're all very different. And we know we have to adjust our social communication based on the environment. Right. So when you think about that, when you go to the dentist, yeah, you act a certain way, you talk a certain way, there's certain things that you have to say or you need to say at a dentist office versus running into a friend at the grocery store. Those are two very different situations. But they're not like that.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

Is a developmental question that we ask our when we test children, that is older kiddos. That is a question that we ask does their tone of voice or pitch change when they're with a friend versus a professional? And I would say the majority of our kids are no. So how is that not taught? Are we not where are we missing, Stephanie?

SPEAKER_00 12:45

I know.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Why that's a good question. Like what's happening? It's a million-dollar question. I know because it's important for that skill to be developed. Is it that it used to just naturally develop in the world we live in? It's not natural now.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

I definitely think expectations have changed. Okay. I think kids these days, I think home lives are different. Yeah. I think school situations are different. Yeah. I don't know that I can put a finger exactly on the thing, but I just know there's been a shift in, you know, most women. We work now, we look at ourselves more like we're equal to our male counterparts and our, you know, so I don't know if there's just been things lost in society changing. Yeah. But it's not necessarily a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Right. Right. And it's I'm all about, I'm all about being in the world we live in, right? There are some women that don't want my son to open their door for them. Like I get that, but I still think he should offer. Maybe that's the ultimate Kendra in me, but it's and it's even more than just the door for some reason. I'm kind of stuck on that. I just feel like I don't know why we're just seeing children struggle socially. Yeah. And I feel like they're having such a hard time of connection that they're feeling lonely. And that makes me sad.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Yeah. Well, we're not meant to be alone in this world. And we're not wired like that.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

And I think if if we are alone and we're isolated, that leads to depression and chronic mental illness. Because we're whether we know it or not, we need social connection. Agreed. And without social pragmatic language and communication, you don't have connection. That's the whole reason we do it. Right. You know.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Well, but I even have these families where their kids now don't want to go to youth because they feel uncomfortable. Or they don't like to go to birthday parties because they don't, they don't know how to walk in and get involved in what's going on. So they just aren't making them go, which a part of me, I get that. Like we don't want our kids to be uncomfortable. I get that. But then where is the balance of how do we teach them to be able to go to a birthday party and feel socially okay? And how do we teach them to be able to go to youth and go to church and fit in with that crowd? Like, does everyone need therapy? Like, how do we teach this?

SPEAKER_00 15:29

I know it's and I I think there are ways to do it without having to do therapy. Okay. But it obviously can help. Sometimes I say us as the parent, sometimes we're not the messenger. Yeah. You know, I know with my own daughter, it's so much harder, it seems like, for me to try to teach her something versus if somebody else does, it's almost like I get written off because I'm parent. Yeah. Um, so I mean, again, sometimes it helps for it to be someone else. Yeah. And even us as adults and parents, we all have our own hangups. We all have our own social issues. Agreed. And that gets passed on. Yeah. Right. Like we, if we're avoiding certain things because we're uncomfortable, obviously our kids are not going to get to experience that or learn how to navigate it. Yeah. Um, but I definitely think that if it's on your radar, like it's come up, parents are seeing this. I've even had clients come to me, and that's the primary thing. Like, how why doesn't my kid like know how to talk to his friends? Or why isn't he like communicating with his peers? And I think it's definitely it's a two-way road.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

And that's the thing. You know, when I go to, you know, if a child goes to a birthday party, yeah, they need to know how to navigate that, but also the person hosting the birthday party.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Yes. Right? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Because there's responsibilities on that person. You know, if I'm a host, I'm thinking my job, one of my jobs is to make people feel welcome.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Right? Yes. So you greet them, you have to connect with them. Hi, I'm glad you're here. Come in. Hey, we're all hanging out in this other room and we're talking about whatever. Like you would be giving them, you would basically be catching them up so that when they walk in that room, they feel like they know what's going on. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

I love that because really the families that are telling me their kids aren't going to youth need to contact the youth pastor and say, look, Jack's having a hard time. When Jack enters the door, could you have someone help him connect to someone? Yes. That's all it takes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

I love that. Absolutely. And kids aren't always comfortable, which I get that. Like I'm an adult, but still, and I'm very social. But if I arrive somewhere, I would like to be greeted. Yes. I would like to be welcomed. Yes. Because that puts me at ease. I feel like, oh, now I know what to do. Now they've told me, they've guided me. And I feel much more comfortable and I feel welcome. And I feel like they want my input and want my participation. Yeah. So it just sets, I think it's setting social situations up for success.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Because we are seeing more and more children not wanting to go to birthday parties or not wanting to perform in front of people. Like, and maybe some of that's more social anxiety, which I feel like is a piece of expertise for you. Yeah. Um, so maybe some of that kind of plays together. Um, we are seeing more anxiety than ever before.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

Yeah. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

And when anxiety becomes part of it, like if I'm if I'm nervous, if I'm questioning like what I'm doing here, what's expected, if I don't really know, anxiety rises. And then when we're anxious, it is gonna affect. Yeah. We're overthinking, we're in our head. That's gonna block our ability to connect. But what's also important to know is there are ways to diffuse anxiety in people. Yeah. And one way to do that is to help them know what's expected. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

So kind of guide them what's gonna happen next. Yeah. I love that. You know, if I am a family listening to this and I feel like maybe my child's a little behind socially or struggling socially to make friends, and I feel like it's hard. So it's hard to be social for everyone. Yes. For everyone. Um, I know we have spent many hours praying for our kids' friends. Because you just want your kids to be connected and you want your kids to have friends. That's right. But it's a social thing. It's a social thing. It's hard, it's hard to love your friends and love other people if you don't know how to. That's right. So how if I'm sitting here listening to this and I'm like, yes, this is my child, what would you what would advice would you give for families to help with this?

SPEAKER_00 19:57

I mean, I think definitely if it's on your radar, like it's a concern and you've observed your child struggling, and you think maybe it is causing them some distress, discomfort, anxiety. I think it's always to the point. If it is interfering with their ability to connect, build friendships. Yes. Right? Yeah. You've got to think like what leads to successful adults and what leads to successful jobs and it it's connection, it's socializing, it's knowing how to navigate those situations. Yes. And so I think if it's enough that a parent is questioning it to seek, seek out examination. You know, let's take a look at it. Like, is this to the point that it would require some intervention? Um, but you and I have even said, you know, this needs to be done in social situations. And I think the social groups is a great idea because then you have peers, you have same-age kids who they're all awkward, right? They're but I I think it's better to teach it in an actual situation than to try to maybe one-on-one, you know, teach these social skills in that way. I think adding some peers to it would be beneficial. Yeah. Because you're you're really practicing that skill with other kids who also are struggling, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:24

Yes. And I I think you could almost in the group setting put them in awkward situations, but teach them how to handle it. Yeah. So that's the program I need you to start.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

I know you sent me that message, and I was like, ah, what do you think do? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

I know because it's so needed. Yeah. I can't start another program. But you you can't.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

You're like, I can't, but guess what?

SPEAKER_02 21:48

I'll help you, but I won't start it. Yeah. No, I do think it's really needed. Yeah. Um, but I mean, obviously, and maybe there is a program out there. I don't, I don't know of one, especially here in the Tulsa.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

I don't know of one either, but it's it's one of those things like we're always assessing need and you are in a very good place to like get that input from people. And you are like a hub for resources. Right. So it's kind of like now that we know that this is a thing, it's like, hey, let's maybe we this is something we need to explore and really think about bringing it to fruition. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

For families.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

But until we have developed the class that you are starting, um, let's talk about what a family can do. And I think it's giving the children as many opportunities as possible. So if the you walk into Target and you have to go to the bathroom, you don't ask where the bathroom is. You let them ask someone where the bathroom is.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Yep. I was just gonna say that.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

You know, like just think of ways that you can help them learn to communicate with other humans in a social setting that you have the ability to kind of coach them.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Yes, absolutely. So, in a way, that's like a role play, right? Right. You say, Hey, we're gonna go to Target and we're gonna return this thing. So when we return items to a store, we have to look for the customer service area. And um, then, you know, once we find that, you know, there's gonna be a person standing behind the countertop. And, you know, let's talk about it. Like, what do you think would, you know, what should we say? Like when we walk up there. I think doing a little prep work because that's gonna ease anxiety. Right. You've already gone through it. Right. And a lot of those type of situations, they do have kind of a set script, right? You can almost script it. You can. And then that way, your child, you've you've prepped it, you've let them know like this is how it should go. Right. And um, then you go do it, right? And my thought is it doesn't just stop there. You know, you go through that situation. We all know things come up, there's little hitches, right? You know, things go off script, and then those are learning moments. Right. So then you can say, hey, you know, we we scripted this out, but like when we got there, you know, there wasn't a person standing behind the desk. Um and so those are learning moments.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

Yes. It's teaching them, okay. Well, now what do we do? Now what do we do? Right. So it's pizza night and we want to order pizza for the family. Well, Jack has to call and order the pizza. Uh-huh. Right? Yeah. Then that's an opportunity. Yes. Or we go to we one of the questions that we ask is, do you order your meal at a restaurant? Does or does mom still order it? And all the kids are like, I'll tell mom what I want, but mom orders it. And I'm always like, but why? Like if you can tell mom what you want, you can still tell the server. Waiter or waitress. Right, exactly. Um, so that's an opportunity of it's awkward, it's uncomfortable, they have to make eye contact, they have to speak up, it's loud in a restaurant. You have to be able to tell them what you want, but that's another opportunity. It's an opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

And here's the thing things do not become comfortable by not doing them. Yes. Right. So things are uncomfortable maybe for the first 50 times or the first 25 times. But then after a while, it becomes just second nature. Yes. Right? Yes. But we have to do the th the thing that's uncomfortable m several times before we start to feel better about it. Yes. I love it. And we're made to do hard things. Right. So it's like, you know, you just and my thought is you're giving an opportunity to your child.

SPEAKER_02 25:42

Well, and it's making them well so well-rounded, right? Yes. I always say, if you don't learn to make eye contact, the job interview might not go as well as you would like it to.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Might not go good.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

And so, um, and I know that that's so uncomfortable for some people, but there's other accommodations to help with that. Yeah. So I think here I'm just kind of talking about all children, not like And why my thought is this, you know, we teach the why.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Why do we look at someone? Yes. Right? Why do we look? If I am not looking at you, Kendra, and I'm over here talking and I'm just, you know, listening to you talk in that, I am not reading any of your facial expressions. You know, you could be over there looking at your watch. And if I never see that, I'm never going to think, maybe we're getting close to time, or maybe maybe Kendra was expecting a phone call. Or maybe, I don't know. But if I don't read that, because if I see you do that, if I'm looking at you and I see you do that, I might say, Oh, do you need to are are you late for something? Do you need to catch? You know, I would inquire, which gives you an opportunity to inform me.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

You know? Yeah. But I have to be looking at you.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

Yeah. Or I'm not going to catch it. Right. Well, and you have to, um, I've been to a lot of birthday parties where the kids don't open the gifts. And so I asked them, I've asked a few moms. Why? Um, she's one mom was like, Well, I just don't want him to get two of the same gifts because he won't know how to respond. I'm afraid he won't be grateful or think the per but those are to me, those are all teachable moments.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Those are learning moments. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

And it's gonna happen. I mean, all my kids opened up the same gift twice. I don't think any of them cared. They were so excited to have two of the same thing. Like, ah. But it's still teaching them how to respond to those life situations. Because if we don't teach them when they're younger, they're gonna someday as an adult open a gift and not know how to appropriately respond to it.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

That's right. But it's also prepping that child. Right. Right? The teaching moment happens before you get it happens before and after, but there's things we can do to prep. So, you know, like you can tell your kid, like, hey, we've invited, you know, five of your friends over. And remember, we told all of them you really like trucks and dinosaurs. So, you know, heads up, there may be somebody who buys you the same cool gift. Yeah. Right. Um, which that happens, but you know, we are still, they still spent the money on you. They still bought the gift and they bought it with the thought that like you're really gonna love it because you love dinosaurs. Right. And so we just really want, you know, if somebody buys you something or gives you something, like we show appreciation by saying, thank you, thank you for thinking of me. So I think it's important that we are prepping our kids. Yes, and then we are giving them the opportunity. Yes. Right. Yes. Because it now let me, I'm gonna add this on. Okay. As a parent, right, and we know this, we are both parents, right? There are certain situations when we know our children, right, and all children have different personalities, different things, but sometimes our own insecurities can interfere with us. To me, sometimes, and that's not a judgment on parents. I think no, none of us like to be uncomfortable. Right. So, as a parent, like, well, just to avoid my own embarrassment of my kid, right? I'm just gonna avoid this altogether. We're just gonna wait and open presence when everybody leaves. Right. But I think the sacrifice of that is that when, how long are we gonna wait before we teach that moment?

SPEAKER_02 29:27

Because it's it won't be learned. No, because they literally are then opening up presents alone, not making eye contact, saying, Thank you, Mrs. Stephanie, for my car. I love it. I mean, that it we have to teach them to be grateful and how to interact. And it's okay to open up a car and hate it. I hate red and I opened a red car. Right. You know, I mean, and I've been at birthday parties where kids are like, thanks for the car. I don't like the color, but thanks for the car, you know? Right. And that's okay. Like as a mom, you're kind of like, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Oh gosh, why did they say that? Oh my goodness. So let me go put my head in the hole.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Yes. Right. But um, you know, it's um it's one of those things that we we learn by doing. And if we don't provide that opportunity, even in our own security, sometimes we just have to say, I'm uncomfortable. Right. And I'm gonna be uncomfortable because kids can be unpredictable.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

Well, they're gonna say the darndest things.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

They're gonna kids say the darndest things. And I that's why I love them. And I think for a parent, laugh about it. Right. You know, because other people, and I it's okay. We're all learning. We're gonna mess up. Right. Um, but we need to mess up. Correct. I always say, like, we need to be teaching kids too, it's okay to get it wrong. It's okay to screw it up. Like that's where the learning happens. Yes. If you always got it right, what are you really learning?

SPEAKER_02 30:57

Right, correct. You know? Yeah. So my oldest Maggie was um in a Mother's Day out program. Okay. And for Mother's Day, they had a special tea party for us. And so grandmas, grandpas, everybody came. And every kid stood up and told what their favorite meal their mom makes is. So every it was such a great social interaction. They stood up, spaghetti, lasagna, um, mac and cheese was a big one. And my Maggie said Wendy Nuggets. And I love it. Because everyone else's mom made stuff, and mine was Wendy's nuggets. And I literally was like, oh my gosh. But you know what? Uh in the car, she's like, How come everybody laughed at mine? And I was like, Well, because it was so cute. Like, you like nuggets, and that's what you said that I cook. It was just funny, but I'm so grateful looking back at that. Like, it was such a great social interaction that they were doing. I was probably a little embarrassed. Um, and the kid could eat some serious wendy nuggets, but it just goes to show you they're they're gonna say silly things, unpredictable things, and it is okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

It's okay. That's right. Like she's probably sitting there thinking, ooh, what do I like to eat? Right. You know? Yes. Like, forget the mom part. Like, what do I really love? You know what I really love? Mom does go through the drive-thru and pick them up. Like it's those Wendy's nuggets. Yes. You know, and then also to teach her, you know, well, it's kind of funny because it was like, what, you know, what food does your mom cook? You know, you're Wendy's nuggets. Like those Wendy staff members are just heating those up. Like, mom didn't have to like put ingredients together or stir the pot or, you know, so that's funny because it's like, oh, mom cooked it because she went through that drive-thru. That's right. You know, that's right. And I think that also is a piece of social pragmatics, humor.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Right. Understanding humor, getting the joke, right? And it's important. Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

You know, if we miss the joke, it's like, uh, right. And it's okay. Like my kids have so many times have said, I laughed at a joke, but I did not get it. Well, I still do that to me. You tell me what it means, but it's teaching them just laugh about it. You just just legal that is the social pragmatic appropriate thing. Laugh and then come home and ask the questions. Or, you know, um sometimes I just tell the person, like, uh, I didn't get that.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Like, why is that funny? And then they tell me, I'm like, oh my gosh, you know. So yeah. It's there's so many aspects to it. And I think that's probably why there isn't like a set program yet. Right. Because it's like, ooh, it's what do we focus on? Right. And what where is because my thought is if you teach maybe a foundation of skills, the idea is that they would generalize to other environments. So it's not like you'd have to teach every specific one, but there are so many aspects.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

There are a lot. You're right, you're right. But I think you said it perfect earlier. It's about giving them the opportunity and coaching them and planning them through it.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

Yeah. And then talking problem solving afterwards. Yeah. Like, oh, that kind of went different than what we talked about. Like, yeah. So what age can that start? Ooh, Kendra. That's a good question.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

I mean, I'm really childhead, so I'm thinking Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Well, uh when I'm thinking language development. Sure. Okay. By five, the kid's language resembles that of an adult. Right. Um, most of all their speech sound errors should be resolved at that point. Correct. Um they're talking in sentences. There's no reason a five- you think about can they order? Absolutely. Right. Can they go into a store and hand something to a clerk? Absolutely. I think you look at the age of the child and their particular abilities, and then you look at the situation. Are they capable of producing that amount of language? Absolutely. Okay, then maybe we should address this.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

Okay, I love it. Yep, I agree. I think the earlier the better. And it's just getting them in social situations, coaching them through it, teaching them right from wrong, making it fun. Um, and then the ones that have anxiety try to lower the anxiety, but still push them into the opportunities. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

You know, and not I know it's hard as a parent to like sometimes we just need a break. Sure. But you know, leaving the kids at home when you go to the grocery store. I mean, that is a social occasion and it's it's a learning opportunity. Obviously, maybe you don't have to take them every time, but like just thinking about exposing them.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

Yeah, but I agree with you on that. I think that's where COVID hurt things. Um, when we built Buildville, so we built a town here in our facility, a kid-sized town. We have had several kids say, Where do I pull up by the grocery store to get my groceries?

SPEAKER_00 35:58

Oh God.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

Like they don't even know how to go into the grocery store and get groceries, they just are used to pulling up and the groceries come to them.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

You know?

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Um And think about the grocery store. Yes. That is like sorting an organization like to a max. Yes, that is full of language. It's full of language and problem solving and directions and following directions.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

Wow. So it's getting back out into the social things. It takes way more effort to take a kid to Target or Walmart than it does to put it.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

I'm getting a little anxious right now just thinking about it. Right.

SPEAKER_02 36:33

I get that. But it's the opportunities to wait in line, to wait while you're paying to talk to the clerk. I mean, there's so much that is being missed if you're not taking your children to the grocery store.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Because there's always those people in there. And people love kids. Yes. Right? They want to talk to them, they want to know what their name is, they want to know how old they are, they like their haircut. You know, there's always something. And those are opportunities for your child to respond. Yeah. Thank you. You know, oh, you like my shirt? Like we say thank you. Like that was nice. And and then again, the why. Right. Why do we say thank you? Right. Why do we compliment someone? Because it's that connection piece. And the things we do cause emotions and feelings in other people, whether we want them to or not. Yes. Right.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

So good.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

So I could go into a convenience store and buy, you know, a protein chocolate shake and walk up to the counter and just stick it on the counter, not look at the clerk and not smile. Yeah. And pay with my card and never make eye contact. And regardless of what I'm doing, that person behind that counter is having thoughts and ideas about what is going on with me. Yep. Right? And that's why it matters. Yes, I love it.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

I love it. Thank you. We could talk about this for a lot longer. We could. Um we always turn people back to scripture and back to the Bible. Do you have a scripture that you want to share with us? Let me see here.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

I do actually. Ecclesiastes four. Okay. And I love this because it's the social connection piece, but two people are better off than one for they can help each other succeed. I love it. Right? Yeah. And that is that is how we're wired, right? That's how God made us. God, and that's why He put different talents in all of us because we weren't meant to do everything alone. I love it. And I think it helps us just embrace who we are. Yeah. That we aren't all encompassing. None of us are fully independent. We all lean because we have to. Right. So I love it.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

I love it. Thank you.

unknown 38:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

I feel like thanks for inviting me back. I love it. You're coming back again and again and again. It's just the stuff that you do is so important, Stephanie. And the skills that you have. And so thank you so much. And this is important. This is important for families to hear because it's, I always say, we're building our boys and our girls to be men and women someday that are going to be wives and husbands, and they're going to work, be a coworker, and they're going to be an employee and maybe a boss someday. And we have to give them the skills to have success. Absolutely. I love it. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Let us close with a word of prayer. Dear Lord Jesus, thank you for these children in our lives. Thank you for all the resources you have placed in our life to help us rise up and build. It's in Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Thank you for listening to the Rise and Build Podcast, brought to you by Building All Children, a child development program in Tulsa, Oklahoma. To learn more about Building All Children or the Rise and Build Podcast, please visit buildingallchildren.org. This podcast is crowdfunded. We appreciate our sponsors and the donations given by our listeners. Come with us as we rise and build.