BONUS: Everyone Loves Someone Who Had an Abortion

Jas shares her abortion story with Sue, and the two discuss how important it is to have these conversations honestly and candidly―free of blame, shame, or stigma.   

Connect with us on Instagram: @politicalpourup

Transcript

0:00

Hey Jazz. Hey Sue. Hey. What's up? What's going on, girl? Life. Life just been life. And, uh, when does life, not life? I don't know when I'm, what does that feel like? When I'm on the beach, like when I'm on the beach and I have like a cocktail in hand, like on vacation, that's when life just, just be like everything. I need to be nice. But that's still life. I mean, it's not lifeing at that point though. Oh, you say when it don't be life, and So yeah, in this week's episode of our podcast, we discussed an issue that has been top of mind for a lot of voters. It's always on the news. There's always some really awful stories about, pregnant individuals who have Been put through some really horrific circumstances because of the overturning of Rho. With the Dobbs decision, which we go into in, enough detail, in our episode two. But we wanted to do this bonus episode. It's our first bonus episode. That's exciting. It's like yeah and we can kind of like Sometimes we can just have a moment to like kind of Do a quick deep dive into something that we've been that we had discussed and maybe give it a little more. A little more conversation. Yeah, um, or just even get a chance to like You know because we don't want to hold you guys there for two hours at a time because I mean we are Although we are entertaining. I don't know if we got entertainer But yeah It just gives us the time to kind of just talk about things a little more in depth on like a one off type of vibe, which is always good because sometimes when we find like in conversations, you know, we'll find like a thing and then we'll kind of veer off there for a moment and then have to circle back to where we were. Right. Yeah. Cause I mean, this is something that we wanted to discuss on our, on our episode two. And we were just, We were just talking and talking. We didn't get to it, but I wanted to make space for, you to share and for us to have a conversation about, your experience with, abortion I think it's really, important to give those who have had the actual experience the spotlight to share, the stories that we hear on a daily basis, they might be a little bit different, from what you, went through or what you were experiencing at the time, but I think that your story will resonate with a lot more people who have had abortions or who have supported people who had abortions Even though this is a bonus episode, we're still pouring up because these are heavy topics and nobody wants to be, I don't know. Nobody comes over my house and is not offered a drink. Like I don't, I don't understand. It's just the hospitality and me. I mean, I'll offer you something to eat as well. Exactly. Jasmine ate. I cook because apparently children need to eat. Uh, so yeah, if you, if you don't want to cook all the time, don't have kids. I mean, Or if you can't afford a private chef. Yeah. so we're still pouring up. Would you like some more of this bubbly rosé from Cooper? The exclusive Cooper's Hawk rosé. Sure. We went to Cooper's Hawk for my birthday dinner. And for some reason I signed up for it. For a Y, monthly Y membership, I don't live within 30 mile, radius of a Cooper's Hawk. So when I passed one last week, this past weekend. I, I was like, Oh, a Cooper's talk. Me see if I can get some of the wine that I have accumulated over these past, wait, what? It was like, my birthday was like 10 months ago. So, yeah, I get there and it's like, oh yeah! You have 10 bottles available, Through your membership. So I got ten bottles and was like, please cancel this shit because obviously I don't need it. It's a really good deal. I would, if you live within, like, I don't know, a 15 minute drive of a Cooper's Hawk and it's, the food was good. I mean, we went for my birthday. This wine is good. This rose, it's very nice. Let's start this conversation before I drink more. I think honestly, growing up in this country, there's a lot of things that we're taught we shouldn't discuss, like politics, abortion, money, race, religion. There's just usually like a, a blanket of topics that things that we usually don't discuss and abortion is one of them. Um, and I think without doing that, we really don't allow conversations to be had, um, or for people to really. I mean, just it happens more commonly than most of us acknowledge, and I think it's because a long time there's a bit of taboo or stigma or shame or guilt or just the pretty much basic thing of it being. Something between you, a decision between you and your doctor, and you don't tell everybody about every other thing that happens at your doctor's, so why would you tell them about these things? So, I think that by not talking about it, sometimes it makes, it makes these things seem like very distant, topics or things that, that kind of only affect some and not everyone. And, and to be honest, there's not many people in my life who Um, either haven't been personally affected, um, in some type of way, whether they are someone who's been through the journey or someone who's supporting or have been supportive or know someone who has, um, so I think it's a conversation that we should just start to have more openly without the stigma or shame surrounding it. And I thought that, you know, us having this conversation together might be a way that we can kind of do our little part to continue to, acknowledge that. Yeah. And make more common for sure. I agree 100 percent with everything. Especially, you know, the de stigmatization. Yeah. Absolutely. Thanks. that is something that I think the abortion access movement is really working towards. They have the momentum of public support. Right? Behind abortion, like the majority of Americans, as we discussed on the episode, support abortion being legalized in all or most cases, but what is I think we still deal with, and even in our communities today, and even in some of our friend groups, is a, like, a stigma about abortion. Like, you mentioned religion, religion is one thing that really shows up in that. It's like, oh, well, why do you do that? I thought you went to church. I thought you knew God. You know, especially in the black community that's always comes to mind but also just like When you get older, it's like well, you know, why are you having abortion? I think also like with having more conversations which is what I i'm hoping that this will be, you know be part of The mechanism to kind of help grow that. I mean one You Often you'll hear people make like quick quips or comments about like, Oh, and usually the onus is on the woman, even though women can't get themselves pregnant. Um, right. Is that, you know, Oh, they should have done this to protect it. Or they should have done this to not end up in this situation. And it's almost like, and still in 2024, we're still dealing with that. That's just misogyny. It makes no sense. One, they can't do it alone. Right. Two, Or they should have had a, it doesn't, something, it doesn't make sense because Did they consent? Did or like, you know, were they, how were you dressed? Were they intoxicated? Well, you drank like, yeah, I mean, it's just, there's so many things and honestly like. Abortions from pregnancies that are unwanted are one thing, and that has a multitude of reasons why the pregnancy may be there and unwanted, but there's also a lot of valid reasons, other reasons, exactly, outside of that, why people want to abort. Um, you either have to get an abortion or need it in order to survive. And usually it's, I think there's, we do a disservice to the large group of women who are carrying a child or are looking forward to carrying a child or just beginning out that journey who either have miscarriages and DNCs are required in order for them to just, you know. Not die and be healthy in order to go back and if they want to try again, you know what I mean? Or an atopic pregnancy which will kill you and you won't get a chance to have a baby and the baby will never be in a viable place when that happens. Right, and the earlier that it is. removed from your body, the better chance you have. You know what I mean? Or even just people who have some kind of, sometimes there are people who literally have like, medical conditions. Yeah, that will not allow them to that. I mean, that's what happened with Candy Miller, like her story. I think she had, was it lupus would have almost killed her to carry that. Exactly. And Her decision, to get an abortion was, you know, pretty finite. Like, no, I have, three children already and no, I'm not willing to risk my own life to bring another child into the world. And on top of that, I don't trust the medical system that exists in my State like she had a lot of medical Distress with which a lot of black people have and also, if you have lupus, Which is an autoimmune disease. Stress also causes flare ups. And she was. So being stressed like that, along with having something else feeding off of your body that is also stressing you, and then not knowing what's happening around you. Like, that I'm sure did not help. So, Jas. Tell us about your experience with abortion. The floor is yours. So, honestly I guess, in terms of my personal abortion story, like, I guess I'm lucky enough that it wasn't really a taboo topic growing up. I was able to kind of have those conversations,, even before I went off to, college. I remember my grandmother was born in 1920. Told me about how she used birth control, which was condoms at the time, to not have kids for eight years in between her first and second child no matter how, Christian she was and religious she was Mm-Hmm. She was like, yes, we got married. We had a child and then we used condoms for eight years and then we decided until we decided to have another one. So, you know like I was lucky enough to even be able to have like some of those kind of clips of conversations where things weren't really as taboo in my household as they were in some others. So even when I was curious about being sexually active like I worked for AIDS prevention service in like 10th grade. And taught other people about STDs and safe sex. So when it was time for me to really decide what I wanted to do, I actually took myself to Planned Parenthood and got myself birth control. I had caught the Metro one day after school and took myself. Um, and then told my mother about it later. And she was like, okay, well, I'm glad you're being responsible for things you were thinking about doing or would like to do. And so even at that point, that was probably like the first discussion. It's really about abortion and, um, you know, her being there to support me if that was something I need to do. You know, making sure that I, you know, give myself a chance at life and not really get stuck, with some of the trappings that maybe having a kid, at a younger age, especially like in high school, may have the effect to do. So your mom, even before the situation presented itself like oh, yeah, you knew that that was an option I know that if I ever wanted to go that my mom would support me. As a matter of fact, my mom told me like, if you get pregnant, like before you leave high school, I will go with you and take you to get one because I want you to have a chance at life. It wasn't like about punishing me or being ashamed of me, which I think also is a big difference because it allows like my mom always was the one to have like upfront conversations with me so I think that was a big thing of like, allow, allowing me to just feel more comfortable. I was never shamed for like asking questions, doing research, like. My mom was actually a person who put me in contact with a friend of hers to get me a job at, at like 15 to do AIDS prevention service work. And even my dad and that support system like and that wisdom that That your mom shared with you, not just about the fact that, you know, these are things that you should be actively, you know, I mean, my mom's just very engaged in, but like open. Yeah, exactly. And I appreciate that. And it's sometimes too open, like sometimes too open. Honestly, when I got my menstrual cycle at 10, she made me call my father, all of my grandparents. Right, see, no. And tell them on the phone. But I remember my dad like getting on the phone and like having a conversation with me and just being like, you know, you can talk to me about anything, you know, be careful, you know, why you out here, you know, cause people get VD and I had to, and if it wasn't for the fact that I had done. No, I only know what VD was because no, they don't and I only know that episode of Good Times where they thought that that girl gave J. J. VD and it wasn't him. He was like, you know, just be careful. He was like, but you know, even though most of it, you could like get a pill or a shot in the butt for you, but you know, but my dad is also a very down to earth and wonderful gentlemen. So I love him for all his realness. Again, this also opens the thing because I, you know, like my dad is also a modest guy. Like, he's a modest man, but also just a modern man. Yeah. So, um, with all of that, After I graduated from high school, I went off to college, had taken out student loans and and gotten grants and even all the public loans and all the grants and tuition assistance that came with just being from this area just did not amount to what it cost me to get there. So I had to take out private loans. and I did that. Then I also had family that like helped me out here and there, friends and family, you know, just to make sure that I could do well to go to school and just try to be great. I mean, my dad, my dad literally got his GED while in the army. So for him, it was, he was super proud. Yeah. You know what I mean? And my mom didn't get a chance to graduate from college when she went right after high school. She went for a little bit. Then had to like start raising kids and went back. And I saw her get her bachelor's degree, graduate her bachelor's degree as I was a kid growing up and then go to pursue her master's. But again, you know, just things like that. So when I went off to college, I think I had gone through my, finished my fall semester. And then I was, came back home, you know, tired a little more. Didn't really have a taste for certain things didn't really think much of it happened to have a doctor this appointment because it was for Christmas break Went to my doctor's appointment found out I was pregnant And then my I told my doctor like yeah I'm in my first like semester about to go back for a spring semester Like I'd like to get a referral for an abortion because these are also conversations Had with my family like my cousins we talked about things like this where it wasn't shameful We could talk about sex, we could talk about, then they were closer to my age, we could talk about, and you're like, oh, doctor, yeah, and so, I need a medical procedure, well, and I said, please help me out with that, give me the procedure, right, it's like, I would like a referral, right, exactly, and at the time, the hospital I went to was, uh, The doctor I went to the doctor's office was in the hospital that was at the catholic affiliation and I don't know if that was the Reason or not or just her personal reason. Honestly, it could have been both But she just was like, you know, and I I was I didn't expect it I mean, she was a black woman with dreadlocks who used to wear like Football jerseys in the office, you know, man for a cool down earth lady. Yeah, so it's not like I really expected anything But she was like, I don't really Believe in it. I'll give you a Look Um, like a prescription for like prenatal vitamins. And I was like, that's not really what I, every time you tell me that, it makes me so mad because like, because it's, it's completely what do you need a prescription for? One, you don't need a prescription for prenatals. You don't need a, prescription for prenatal vitamins but also like, I just told you that that is not, I didn't even, I didn't ask about it. Have a look of confusion. I didn't ask about what are my choices? Exactly. That'd been different. If I would have asked, you knew I knew what my choices were. Exactly. There was one thing that I always thought, you know, things may not be perfect, but if I were able to, like either I would bring a child in this world and try to like take care of them or I wouldn't, you know what I mean? Because there's no, there's some people who could turn out wonderful, you know what I mean? Whose parents give them up and they turn out wonderful. There's other people who could. Who have other people raise their kids and it's not wonderful. And for me, I just wasn't willing to take that gamble just because of any, and I'm not talking about even adoption. I'm even talking about like family members, just stuff like that. So for me, I just was like, you know, if there's, I can't control everything, but if there's certain things I can't control, those might be one or two of the things I try to, um, And, and honestly, at that time, I just was like, I'm a freshman in college. I'm a What, 19? No, no, I went to college at 17, so I had just turned 18 She's Right She's so smart. I had just turned 18 Like, right before school. Fall semester ended. So for me, I was just like, this isn't the time. And I, at that point in time, honestly, I did have a, a blueprint of how I thought my life would go So I was like, this is not part of the plan. This is not gonna help accomplish the plan. Mm-Hmm. And I can't see a way that I'm at a place where I could do so well for, for. for this new plan if I were to try to take this. So I decided that that wasn't something I wanted to do. I decided to have an abortion. I had to do a while at school. I went to school in Georgia. That was something I had to look up and kind of research. And that was the decision I made. Well, sometimes in life, even when you're being careful or not so careful, things happen. So when six months later came, Right when I'm going back after summer break I find out that oh crap You're pregnant again. Yeah. I'm like, you know, like just sometimes you just really don't know even the people who are the most diligent or just like, or even people who think like, you know, I've been literally told that this is something that isn't really a possibility for me. Sometimes things happen. You know what I mean? Um, and unfortunately for me, I've also been in a position in life where I've seen what it looks like where people have like, tried to do things like remove protection during intercourse. And if you're not paying attention, that very much can be something that happens to you. So, um, and not to say that you're not paying attention, like people just aren't paying attention. But I'm saying sometimes people do things that are very deceitful And if you're not like if you aren't able to you know, catch it, then you may not even know but at that time I was like, yeah, no like this like Absolutely. No, absolutely not like You know I actually was on birth control during those times. But, I also, at some point, just, like, really ended up having an extreme, like, Reaction to birth control to the point where it made me physically sick. Yeah, so sometimes you also have things like that where people just don't react. And I've tried low estrogen, other progesterone, like I've tried different things sometimes that are, or that like are, as types of birth control and sometimes those things just don't work, you know what I mean? And it just could be other things. I mean, I've had everyone's body that almost killed me. I've had, I've, I've also had cysts that have ruptured that were not as drastic that did not almost kill me. So there were much more benign. And then I've also had like fibroids, so, you know, there's so many things, especially with women of color that we deal with, especially when it comes to just like our reproductive organs. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I mean so I mean, it is what it is. So your, so your summer after your freshman year. Yeah, so I find out that this seems to be the case right before I go back to school. So you're here in D. C. Yeah, I found out like in D. C. before I went back and I'm going back to Georgia. I didn't have time to do it here. Right. And so I went back to Georgia and I went to the place I went to before. Sure. Felt okay there. I think I had to go for two appointments. They make you do the blood test because if you have a negative blood type, then there's an extra. Thing they need to give you, I think, when you're getting like anesthesia or getting the So they were very thorough. Oh, they were very thorough. In their procedure. I mean, they were, they were careful. That's what I took away from that. They were kind. Yeah. I mean, they gave me, uh, I remember they gave me saltines and lemonade in my recovery area. It didn't rush you out. Oh, that's right. Like you were still in your bed and everything. Like it was, it was a cool, I mean, not, not cool, but in terms of like, just the comfort level, it was a place where you could be comfortable and they did their best to keep people from like protesting and things out front. Every now and then you might see somebody on the sidewalk, in front or maybe with a poster or something, but they really try their best to do it with security. I mean, some of that stuff is very much so also off putting when you're going in. Especially, I mean, I had never went in as a person that was unsure so much at that time. I went in knowing what I wanted to do, going in and being unsure, that can be an extreme amount of pressure when you're already going through something that is causing you a lot of pressure. Also something that has your hormones all the way out of whack. So it's just, you know, hormone slash emotions also, you know, however you want to look at that. But what I do remember is that I went and everything seemed fine. Everything was routine. I left, I went back and luckily, honestly, now that I think about it, luckily I had gone before and I had an idea of like what that was supposed to feel like had gone through the, you know, follow appointments that they have for you afterward to make sure that everything's okay. You're healing. Okay. Like I had done all of that. So I had an idea. Within the day after, you have some discomfort, you may have some pain, um, but I ended up having more pain than discomfort. And I just remember the pain got so bad that it felt unbearable and I knew something was wrong because I never had that amount of pain happen to me before, like in my abdomen area. And I actually called a person that was a friend of mine at the time and asked them to pick me up and take me. They weren't even one of my close friends just somebody I knew from home and asked him to come pick me up and take me And I sat in the waiting room for hours as anybody who's been to the ER before his experience so you were just having pain. It didn't, oh, extreme abdominal extreme pain. But I was already But they didn't consider you at like an emergency status like that? Well, I mean, even though I was in the emergency room, telling them it was an emergency did not emergency enough, but. Yeah, I passed there's a lot of where they called me back I was in and out of like trying to just stay that might have been awake Before they called me back and when they finally did admit me back I wasn't even in a bed at the time at first. I was in a chair. So, I was back there. And then I finally got a bed, but I mean literally the pain, like if I can explain to you the pain that I was in, the pain that I was in was so uncomfortable that once they finally got me and got me to a bed, got fluids in me and got morphine tapped into the fluids, they gave me a dose of morphine. I did not feel any different. I'm a person that doesn't even usually keep Tylenol I don't really take a lot of medicine Yeah, if I go to the doctor, even when I had surgery I asked them not to prescribe me narcotics because I don't care for them. I'm just very Just cautious about that, but I remember them giving me like at least a second dose of morphine At minimum and then being like hey, so we can't actually give you any more right now medically that would be safe And I could still feel pain. Wow. And I don't like the feeling of morphine going through me because it's very warm in your veins. And I don't like that feeling. Yeah. So, I just remember that and thank goodness I got there. Thank goodness I got back there. But literally that evening They checked me in and told me that I would be staying there overnight and I would be having an emergency surgery in the morning So just to deal with whatever was going on I honestly don't even remember if they told me everything that was going on at that point or if I really recalled And I was supposed to meet my doctor the next morning before I went into surgery. He ended up being called into an emergency surgery at that time, um, so I didn't get a chance to even meet him. But I was getting rolled down the surgery like first thing in the morning. But that's all I remember before waking up back in the hospital room that I had and which they kept me for another couple days. But I came to found out that I actually had an infection because a small piece. Right. Uh, the matter from the abortion was still left behind and the irony in that is that the reason why my mother almost died after having me via c section was because when the doctors removed me, there was a very small piece of placenta that was not removed. And so when she spiked 104 plus fever. Like most people, I mean, now they'll kick you out of the hospital in like a day. Do you have a C section? Maybe three. Yeah, three. That's when my mother, my mother had me in the eighties, she was there for 10 days. Wow. Nobody stays for 10 days and they wouldn't even let me be in her room because they didn't know what she had initially. And they didn't know if it was something that I could catch. Honestly, like, when you think about what happens, like I had an infection that came from whatever was left and had they had not gotten treatment and not gotten an emergency DNC in inadequate enough time because, I had showed up at the latest. I was there early afternoon. I got checked and I was on antibiotics, fluids and pain medication and still rushed into emergency surgery as soon as that can happen the following morning. So, I completely understand how those women died and the worst part about it is I know how I felt at that time and I know the type of pain I was in before it got to the worst of the worst. So not only did they have all of these things happening, they died in agony. They died in literal agony while people ignored them and they died in the most insufferable pain that you can really think of. I mean, the real unfortunate part is, is that it's all preventable. They had children, their children will now grow up without mothers. You know, women aren't breeders. They're not built here just to breed. And so, in order to like, have a life, sometimes there's other things you have to do. And I'm very thankful that at the time that I went through all of these things, and I was a college student in Georgia, that these were options that were even available to me because When I think about it, of all the things that have happened within the last few years, if I were a freshman in college today, I would be dead. I wouldn't be able to sit here and have a conversation about a story at all. I wouldn't be able. To be in a position where I'm discussing, you know, like, you know, getting married or family planning, like these things would have taken all of that from me. If you can put into words, like how you felt after. Your, your abortion? Uh, I felt thankful to be able to have that as an option. I felt thankful not to be trying to figure out, like, how I was going to raise a kid, and not knowing which way was up, and not knowing what I was going to do, and living off student loan money, and, you know what I mean? Like, that's something I felt thankful for. Um, I also felt thankful that I had people in my life that were there to support me. Um, and thankful that I was able to get the care that I needed, so that I could, like, Be alive, literally just live, um, and, and see what the future had. Um, honestly, I mean, I was very thankful that those things were just available. I mean, of course, when something's happening in your body and you don't know exactly what's happening, and it's extremely painful, you are very scared. And that type of fear, you don't know what will happen. And there's nothing you can do for yourself. You really just are hoping that you get to a place where you're in the hands of somebody who can actually do it. Do something beneficial for you and everything works out. I mean, like finding out that my surgery went successfully. without even getting a chance to meet my doctor first, like having to meet him afterward, like no one, all of that happened. I was super thankful, like just super thankful. Like once I started getting better, you know what I mean? Like you just feel thankful. Like you look at things differently. A lot of big arguments aren't as big anymore. You know, just, it really changes your perspective on things. Do you have any regrets about your decisions? Absolutely not. I mean, I don't have, literally, I have no regrets about the decision I made. I don't have any regrets even about like, even though it was an unfortunate decision. Occurrence of like, just something that could have happened of like, going through surgical procedure and something being behind to leave an infection like that could happen from literally getting like an appendix removed or anything like, you know, there's just certain things that can happen. I don't have any regrets about it. And I think that the only kind of regrets I have in certain ways is just like, and not even really a regret, but just like kind of a, something I wish that could have gone a little different is that it was talked about more, like I was able to talk to it, like luckily I was able to talk to like close family members or certain close friends about it. The ones I chose to like share. With about these things, but there were certain things that I thought about that I struggle with That I just probably wish that the conversation was more robust around so that a way you can Have better conversations about it or maybe had reached out to somebody to talk to About just like the things I was thinking about regarding these things, especially like when you go through something traumatic it's like so traumatic is like having to go through all these thoughts and decide on what you want to do And going with that and then having something else happen that wasn't even in your forethought of like possibilities that could have such a more dramatic outcome. And when you're sitting there in so much pain and like, I don't know if I'm going to make it sometimes you're just like, what, what is happening? You know what I mean? Like, so I think that. Not a regret, but like I do wish that more resources were had around like just counseling like even that being offered I think would have been really good just for people to talk about and so I wouldn't say like a regret But one thing I wish could have maybe been a little different is that the environment around it was a little different and that You know that could have been something that was really offered. Like sometimes you need other people to talk to, to kind of help you realize that like, although these traumatic things that have happened, like there's just ways to work through it where it doesn't have as much as like a mental toll on you from like going through certain things. Yeah. So I think that's probably the only thing that I would kind of want to be different, but honestly, like. I don't really live a life with many regrets. Right. Not to say that I don't live a life where I can't think of something that has happened where like I've learned a lesson. Exactly. Or could have done differently if I would have had different knowledge up front. But in terms of this particular subject, There wasn't any knowledge like I felt like I didn't have up front, but I mean, it's just I'm thankful that I had the options that I had the ability to have the conversations to know about what these options were, um, to have a support system. So in terms of those things, I'm very much so not regretful, but very much so grateful. Yeah. Thanks for, thanks for having this conversation. Anytime. I'm glad I got a chance to share. I mean, I think it's great that we get a chance to have these conversations and really get, make them and make them more commonplace because they shouldn't be as few and as far in between as they are because everybody loves someone who had an abortion or who needed one. Cause again, we've had friends who've had miscarriages and sometimes you need one in order to just live, to be able to go ahead and have another one. Yes. Needed it. Wanted it. Couldn't live without it. All of those things. We love you.