Bible Reading Genesis 39-40 #genesis #faith #folklore #fiction #josephofegypt

On this Episode we read Genesis 39-40 where we continue the story of Joseph and his story.

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#genesis #faith #folklore #fiction

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Alright, we're gonna start with Genesis 39. Are you guys ready? Amen. Okay, here we go. So I will I will kick this off. So, and Joseph was brought down to Egypt, and Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh, captain of the guard, an Egyptian, bought him, uh bought him of the hands of the Ishmaelites, which had brought him down thither. And the Lord was with Joseph, and he was a prosperous man, and he was in the house of his master, the Egyptian. And his master saw that the Lord was with him, and that the Lord made all that he did to prosper in his hand. And Joseph found grace in his sight, and he served him, and he made him an overseer over his house, and all that he had he put into his hand. And it came to pass from the time that he had made him an overseer in his house, and over all that he had that the Lord and over all that he had, that the Lord blessed the Egyptian's house for Joseph's sake, and the blessing of the Lord was upon all that he had in the house and in the field. All right, so and he left all that he had in Joseph's hand, and he knew not aught he had, save the bread which he did eat. And Joseph was a goodly person and well favoured. And it came to pass after these things that his master's wife cast her eyes upon Joseph, and she said, Lie with me. But he but he refused, and he said unto his master's wife, Behold, my master woteth not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand. There is none greater in this house than I, neither hath he kept back anything from me, but thee, because thou art his wife. How then can I do this great wickedness and sin against God? And it came to pass as she spoke to Joseph day by day, that he hearkened not unto her to lie by her or to be with her.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

Yeah. And I wonder how long he had to endure this before she Day by day for sure.

SPEAKER_04 2:21

Quite a while.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Quite a while.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

How many days, though?

SPEAKER_02 2:26

We don't know, man. Long enough. So never know. Yeah. And it came to and it came to pass about this time that Joseph went into the house to do his business, and there was none of the men of the house with there within. And she caught him by his garment, saying, Lie with me, and he left his garment in her hand and fled and got him out. Okay. So at this point, I just want to point out this is always like used as one of those like modesty defense chapters. It's like, you know, run from temptation or whatever. And this verse is always cited as proof of that. But I'm always like, She attacked him. It was like a violent encounter. I don't think fleeing like he's running because he's scared, not because he's being seduced. So I always kind of got irritated with this interpretation. You disagree? Okay, why?

SPEAKER_04 3:21

Because it says he grabbed his shirt. I mean, I probably would have backhanded her myself, but but he had to leave the garment in her hand.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

That means she was like clinging. That suggests an envi, like a violent interaction, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_05 3:34

I mean, yeah, but like he's still a man. She's a woman. She's not actually gonna like him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Well, I just don't own I don't know why we're assuming like a seduction element here, because she's already tried the seduction thing. It seems like this is an escalation from the normal tactics. You know what I'm saying? So this seems to be more like a violent encounter than like a seductive thing.

SPEAKER_04 4:05

Well, sure, but I don't think he was like scared unless he was just like totally beta, which clearly he wasn't because he was able to resist.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

He might have been scared because it was the Pharaoh's wife. He might have been going, oh crap, I'm in so much trouble. Or a Potiphar's wife, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:20

Be scared to be scared to uh get caught with her like grabbing your shirt and all that for sure.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Yeah, so I think there's like a fear element, not a seduction element here. So I don't like this.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

You're not talking about a fear of her, you're talking about a fear of consequences.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Well, I'm just saying the grabbing of the garment suggests like it was aggressive and violent, and he ran to get away from her because he was afraid. Now, maybe she was the size of an ogre, and maybe I you know, maybe she could have overpowered him. Uh maybe it was physical, maybe it was he was scared of the master. I don't know. But my point is he was afraid, not being seduced. He wasn't running because of like some sort of virtuous repulsion or whatever. It was running out of like a reaction and being afraid.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

The longer you stay in that situation, like he's in an empty house with the woman who's not his wife, the longer you stay in that situation, the worse off you are.

SPEAKER_05 5:15

Get out. Yeah, he might have just realized, okay, maybe he didn't want to succumb, so he's just like, I'm getting out of here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

So you guys don't think that the fact that she's grabbing the garment and that he was running, even though she's like clinging, you don't think the violent element of it changes anything in the story?

SPEAKER_06 5:35

No, no.

SPEAKER_02 5:37

What do you think, Trevor?

SPEAKER_03 5:39

Well, I could trigger all of you real quick and ask another question.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Oh, by all means, I'm so angry.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

Uh, I had one person one time ask me, was Joseph like a homosexual? Like, I'm like, bro, no. He was following God, he was trying to do the right thing. He's like, but he's denying this wonderful thing. I'm like, no, you're looking at it all wrong.

SPEAKER_05 6:06

The same people that say Frodo and Sam were gay. We don't know. It's like, no. Yeah, this this is somebody. Not even worth replying to.

SPEAKER_04 6:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

I'm just saying, given how forward she could have been, she could have been the size of Shrek. I mean, you know, Potiphar might have been staying away from her for a very good reason. I mean, we assume she's attracted, but I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_04 6:28

She might have been she could have been she could have had some some Nephilim blood in her.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_04 6:34

She'd have been digging.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

She may have just We're such academics. See how highbrow this podcast is?

SPEAKER_03 6:44

What what's it called when you you like sex a lot? Like you're addicted to just sex. What's that called?

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Nymphomania or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

Yeah, nymphomania. She could have been one of those.

SPEAKER_04 7:00

No, I think she just was attracted to uh the decisions that he made, and he was a strong leader, and you know, she fell into frame. He was based, so she wanted it. Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

I don't know. I'm going to maintain what I say. I think given the fact that this was an escalation and that this was more of an aggressive encounter, I don't know if I'd be using this Bible verse to defend the notion of fleeing or running from sexual immorality. I just don't like the application of the text.

SPEAKER_04 7:30

You're putting a dichotomy on it. Like, it doesn't need to be he was scared of her or he was scared of falling into temptation. It could have just been like, hey, I'm not supposed to be in this situation, I'm out.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Yeah, but he didn't put himself in this in that situation. She searched him out. I'm just saying the running was a reaction, so I don't know if the analogy is applicable.

SPEAKER_04 7:53

Which analogy?

SPEAKER_02 7:55

The idea of like, okay, you always like because Joseph ran from Potiphar's wife, i.e., you should run from sexual temptation. Like you may very well, you may very well should. I just don't know if I like using this story as an example of that because of its context. Like this is a methodological critique I'm making. Like, I don't know if using this chapter is methodologically sound in the applic in the application of how to avoid temptation, like using the story to communicate how to avoid temptation. I don't know if that's methodologically sound. That's what I'm pushing back against. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 8:38

The only methodology is this. Sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 8:42

That's fair enough. I don't really know that that justifies reinterpret trying to reinterpret the text, but I don't think I'm reinterpreting.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

I just think, I mean, I she grabbed him. It's this she grabbed him as a result of him previously rejecting her. I don't think I'm reading into the text to say that it's an escalation.

SPEAKER_05 9:00

Well, you're reading into it to assume you're assuming it's a violent X, you know, escalation when I don't really know that that's justified.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

Even though he like had to rip himself out of his garment to get away from her, you don't think that's violent?

SPEAKER_04 9:14

You never done a little spin move to get out of your coat?

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Well, yes, but you the the the action of doing the spin move, like Neo or whatever, requires somebody holding fast and there being passion and emotion in that.

SPEAKER_05 9:28

I mean, in the end, she is a woman and he's a man. I don't if he doesn't want her to assault him, he he doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Well, I'm not saying that he was like I'm not saying he was like terrified and whatever. I'm just saying that's not a seductive encounter if like he's having to like rip himself out of the garment or whatever to get away from her. I don't think it's a stretch to say that he's fleeing because the situation is escalating, not necessarily because it's like seductive and he's being tempted and you have to flee temptation. I'm mainly again, I'm mainly just criticizing reading too much into it. I don't think I am. I'm thinking I don't like the uh methodology of using this story to justify how to deal with gener uh temptation broadly.

SPEAKER_04 10:15

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

I just think it's I just don't agree with that. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 10:20

I think if you're gonna if you're gonna take something from this story, take that you shouldn't be in the same house house with a woman that's not your your wife. Like alone. You just shouldn't. So you leave.

SPEAKER_05 10:30

How do you feasibly do that? You're not put in that situation like that.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

Yeah, you didn't know that she was there alone, which is why he left after he found out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Well, he no, he left because she grabbed him.

SPEAKER_04 10:47

Okay, dude. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

He had to get out of the house because she was like trying to manhandle him.

SPEAKER_04 10:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

That's an aggressive encounter. That's not seductive, that's an attack. So I don't like the idea of this being used as an example for how to deal with temptation.

SPEAKER_05 11:08

I agree with you. Like you don't think we should flee from temptation?

SPEAKER_02 11:13

I don't know. I just know I don't like that this is a story that's used to defend that. I think there's some. I'm speaking about temptation broadly, I think there's some things you have to flee from, and there's some things that you have to like face.

SPEAKER_05 11:26

I mean, Christ didn't seem like something you should flee from.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Christ didn't flee from temptation whenever he went into the wilderness.

SPEAKER_05 11:34

He's Christ.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

Yes, but is he not is he not setting an example for people? Is that not one of the reasons why he's on earth is to show us how to demonstrate, like show us how to handle things? Like when he fights the temptation, when he fights the temptation with the devil, he quotes scripture.

SPEAKER_05 11:53

He's also Christ. He's he's not gonna fall to temptation. Joseph is a man, he could fall to temptation. Maybe he kind of wanted it, and he was like, nope, I'm not nope.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

Well, maybe he very well, he very well may have, but I'm saying the violent nature of it does not make makes it, it's not an apples to apples comparison in that case, if it's an aggressive encounter. But even so, your initial question was, do I believe that you should always run from temptation? I'm saying sometimes not because Christ didn't. I believe that he went into the wilderness and continued to contend with the devil, not just because he's Christ, but because he's setting an example for us. Are we not supposed to follow his example?

SPEAKER_05 12:34

Fair enough, but I don't know that everybody that people are saying that in every situation you should always flee from temptation. I don't think people say that make that point, huh? But I mean, there's 90% of the time that's a kind of what you need to do.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Possibly. I mean, I think there are times when it's appropriate. I don't know if I'd say 90%, but I'm not sure whether it's 80 or 90 really matters.

SPEAKER_04 13:01

I mean, so so was Jesus wrong by telling uh um Peter, get behind me, Satan?

SPEAKER_03 13:08

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

No, no, that's fine. I'm just saying this, I I don't like that this story that has a very specific context is used to defend a broader principle about fleeing from temptation.

SPEAKER_04 13:24

I I guess if you want to be tempted that bad, then uh go for it.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Well, I think we're tempted that better bad, whether we want to be or not.

SPEAKER_04 13:31

I'm gonna flee in that situation. I'm gonna flee, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Well, I think all of us would. I don't think that's the issue.

SPEAKER_04 13:37

I'm just saying, you know, I don't like you're doing apologetics for not fleeing, is what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

No, I'm not. I'm doing an apologetics against using a story with a specific context to establish like a broader print principle about temptation. I think it's misapplying the text.

SPEAKER_04 13:54

Yeah, I think it that's I I agree that it's that's reading too much into it. Yeah, that's well that's all making that argument.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Well, Dennis Prager makes it in his commentaries about Genesis.

SPEAKER_04 14:06

Well, he's an idiot.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

He's not an idiot, he's a very smart man. So Prager U? Yes, Prager U. He wrote this giant biblical commentary on Genesis. So he makes this argument in his commentary on Genesis, and then I've heard multiple preachers make this argument as well, and it's just been a pet peeve of mine. It's like, I think you're misapplying the text. I don't like when people do that.

SPEAKER_04 14:28

I mean, I I'm in agreement with you.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

Okay, well, that was my only point. I wasn't trying to say, you know, we should, you know, I don't even know. Okay, that's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_05 14:45

That's generally it's a good idea. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Okay, that's all I'm saying. That was my only point. So, okay. Trevor, you have any thoughts, good sir?

SPEAKER_03 14:54

Uh, sad sands made some comments. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Yes, please. Yes, please. That that's my wife, so she's gonna defend me.

SPEAKER_03 15:04

Uh, she was desperate, and he did not want to disrespect his master. He left because he was afraid of the consequences. A man should be able to be alone with a woman that is not his wife, and both should feel safe.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

Uh she made a move. Uh, he respected his boss because okay. By the way, you guys are totally take talking past each other. I think you guys are in agreement at its core. Uh, yeah, I think we established that. Uh what was the other thing? He left because he was afraid of the consequences. A man should be a man should be able to be alone with a woman that is not his wife, and both should feel safe. I agree with that. She made a move on him before he respected his boss because of that history, he should have fled, which he did. So she's saying that he fled because of the prior the prior history, not just fear, which I think is fair.

SPEAKER_04 16:13

Um, yeah, I mean he knew what she wanted, so he was like, I'm out.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

Yeah, that there was a pattern there to justify it. So it I think what she's getting at is it's more than just being alone and then two people of the opposite gender being alone with each other. It's more than that. It's the prior history is informing the decision, I think is her point. So okay. Trevor, you got any thoughts?

SPEAKER_03 16:41

That would be interesting, though. Like when Jesus was first tempted, he said man should not live by bread alone. I wonder what would have happened if Joseph said that to her. She'd have been like, What?

SPEAKER_05 16:56

What Jesus said it is written and it hadn't been written in Joseph's time, so that's true.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

There you go. There you go. All right. Okay, where are we at?

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Uh 14. 14, thank you, sir. All right. That she called unto the men of her house and spake unto them, saying, See, he hath brought in a Hebrew unto us to mock us. He came in unto me to lie with me, and I cried with a loud voice. And it came to pass when he heard that I lifted up my voice and cried, that he left his garment with me, and fled, and got him out. And she laid up his garment by her until his Lord came home. And she spake unto him according to these words, saying, The Hebrew servant which thou hast brought unto us came in unto me to mock me. And it came to pass as I lifted up my voice and cried, that he left his garment with me, and fled out. And it came to pass when his master heard the words of his wife, which she spake unto him, saying, After this manner, did thy servant to me, that his wrath was kindled. And Joseph's master took him and put him into the prison, a place where the king's prisoners were bound, and he was there in the prison. But the Lord was with Joseph and showed him mercy, or shewed him mercy, and gave him favour in the sight of the keeper of the prison. And the key and the keeper of the prison committed to Joseph's hands all the prisoners that were in the prison, and whatsoever they did there, he was the doer of it. The keeper of the prison looked not to anything that was under his hand, because the Lord was with him, and that which he did, the Lord made it to prosper. And that is thirty-nine. Any thoughts, gentlemen?

SPEAKER_04 18:46

Yeah, he did the right thing, and God rewarded him.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Alright.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Trevor, Greg.

SPEAKER_05 18:55

Yeah, I mean, that kind of sums it up. He was it's it's kind of interesting, or it's funny. Like he's brought in as a slave, and he's he does such a good job that he's put in charge of this household, but then he's thrown in prison, and he's still so trustworthy that they put him in charge of the prison.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

Yeah. Alright. Well, I guess we'll move on to 40 then.

SPEAKER_04 19:24

So we take it?

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Yes, go for it.

SPEAKER_04 19:30

And it came to pass after these things that the butler of the king of Egypt and his baker had offended their lord the king of Egypt, and Pharaoh was wroth against two of his officers, against the chief of the butlers, and against the chief of the bakers. And he put them in a ward in the house of the captain of the guard, into the prison, and the place where Joseph was bound. And the captain of the guard charged Joseph with them, and he served them, and they continued a season in ward, or in custody. And they dreamed a dream, both of them, each man his dream in one night, each man according to the interpretation of his dream, the butler and the baker of the king of Egypt, which were bound in the prison. And Joseph came in unto them in the morning, and looked upon them, and behold, they were sad. Okay, so I was under the impression earlier when she said, He came in unto me, that meant he did the thing, and it just used the same language in six to some guys.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

It's a euphemism of like entering a chamber, entering a room.

SPEAKER_04 20:40

So And he asked Pharaoh's officers that were with him in the ward of his lord's house, saying, Wherefore look ye so sadly today? And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? Tell me them, I pray you. And the chief butler told his dream to Jesus Joseph, and said to him, In my dream, behold a vine was before me, and in the vine were three branches, and it was as though it budded, and her blossoms shot forth, and the clusters thereof brought forth ripe grapes. And Pharaoh's cup was in my hand, and I took the grapes, and I pressed them into Pharaoh's cups, cup, and I gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand. And Joseph said unto him, This is the interpretation of it. The three branches are three days, yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thine head and restore thee unto thy place, and thou shalt deliver Pharaoh's cup into his hand, after the former manner when thou wast washed his butler. But think on me when it shall be well with thee, and show kindness, I pray thee, unto me, and make mention of me unto Pharaoh, and bring me out of this house. For indeed I was stolen away out of the land of the Hebrews. Hebrews, and here also I have done nothing, that they should put me into the dungeon. When the chief baker saw that the interpretation was good, he said unto Joseph, I also was in my dream, and behold, I had three white baskets on my head, and in the uppermost basket there was of all manner of bake meats for Pharaoh, and the birds did not eat them out of the basket upon my head. And Joseph answered and said, This is the interpretation thereof. The three baskets are three days, yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thy head from off thee, and shall hang thee on a tree, and the bird shall eat thy flesh from the tree. And it came to pass the third day, which was Pharaoh's birthday, that he made a feast unto all his servants, and he lifted up the head of the chief butler, and of the chief baker among his servants, and he restored the chief butler unto his butlership again, and he gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand. But he hanged the chief baker, as Joseph had interpreted to them. Yet did not the chief butler remember Joseph, but forgot him. Kind of reminiscent of this.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Allegedly. Allegedly.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

I don't remember that.

SPEAKER_04 23:19

Just saying, these stories happen over and over again all throughout time.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

You know what? I think that's more that's a more solid parallel. Then you know what? We'll take it. Why not? So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:36

All right. If uh Obama had a butler that he liked a lot during that same time.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

If Obama had a butler that he liked a lot, yeah, or a cab driver or something like that. It's all rumor and speculation. I have no idea what you're referring to. So oh my goodness. Okay, uh Greg, Trevor, any thoughts? Any any thoughts on uh 40? Any thoughts on 40?

SPEAKER_05 24:06

Not really. Seems fairly straightforward.

SPEAKER_03 24:09

I'm curious as to what Bearer was originally mad at them about.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Yeah, I've always wondered that. I'm like, man, what is it?

SPEAKER_03 24:16

Was he just having a bad day and was like, throw these two guys in jail, or did something actually happen and they were the two suspects?

SPEAKER_05 24:27

Maybe they were both suspects and then he figured out which one did something, and yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

Or did he just or did he just you know cut the guy's head off out of spite and restore the other guy?

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Yeah, I always wondered what he was doing. It kinda I always felt a little bad for the baker. I'm like seemed like a little over the top, but okay. So Caleb 9398 says, Really? Never heard that story before. Never heard that story, haha.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

So yeah, you're talking about Obama and the cook, or are you talking about uh the baker and the uh and the butler?

SPEAKER_04 25:17

Killed his chef a while back. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, all right, okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

So did he behead him?

SPEAKER_02 25:27

They didn't tell us. They didn't tell us. Nature allegedly. Well, we don't know. I'm not even gonna go into that. I'm not gonna go there. So okay.

SPEAKER_04 25:35

It's also, I'll give you another thought. It's a little reminiscent. You know, I said the old testament's like a physical interpret, like karma was physical, like you had to pay for your sins literally, like, and now it's like it's meta, like you could you have we have forgiveness, so we can incur debt and we can be forgiven, right? Okay, but like in the in the old testament, it was like literal, like you, and so this is reminiscent of uh the Pharaoh was like balancing karma, literally.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Well, we don't know what the baker, the butler.

SPEAKER_04 26:08

We don't know what they did, yeah. It's a give and take kind of situation.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

I just always felt bad because you know, the baker or the I can't, I can't, I I'm getting confused. The baker was like, oh, he got a good prophecy, maybe I got a good one, and then he was sorely disappointed. It was just like, oh, oh, maybe I shouldn't have said anything. It's like, oh you know what? Don't tell me. If I was the third guy, there might have been a third guy in there, and Joseph's like, what about you? And the guy's like, no, no, I'm I'm good. I'm staying in jail, bro. But that's that's adding to the Bible. I wouldn't recommend that, you know. I mean, I'm I'm yeah. Uh Calyx9398 says the Obama story. So he was referring to the Obama story. Yes, allegedly, Obama murdered his cook.

SPEAKER_04 26:54

You probably can't find anything on the internet because it's apparently scrubbed now. There's nothing on the internet. Is it really? It's all Reddit posts, it's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

I remember, yeah, I remember that story.

SPEAKER_04 27:06

So I read earlier. I was I was looking for the uh be fruitful and multiply verse earlier on the internet.

SPEAKER_06 27:12

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 27:13

I pulled it up, and it was like the third one down was a Reddit post, and it said that that that verse only applies to Jews, not Christians. We're not supposed to be fruitful and multiply.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

Well, so this is why you shouldn't trust Reddit.

SPEAKER_04 27:26

Dude, I hate everyone on Reddit. It's a cesspool of morons.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Yeah, I've I've heard great things about Reddit. I'm I'm sure it's it's a wellspring of knowledge. Terrible. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Faith Fiction and Folklore. If you did, we would love it if you would subscribe to us on YouTube or follow us on Rumble. We can also be found on X, Instagram, and Facebook. And we are available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and iHeartRadio. Thank you again very much for listening, and we'll see you next time.