Bible Reading, Mike Winger and Muslims, Eric Metaxas and Erika Kirk

On this episode, we will be going over Exodus 1 and Matthew. The we will be talking about Mike Winger having issues with Muslims, and the Eric Metaxas video about Erika Kirk.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:40

So much easier when I let the countdown do its thing. Welcome to Faith Fiction of Folklore, as we like to call it the Triad Podcast, where we try not to mess the podcast up. And today we got Exodus one. Matthew, Trevor, what which which Matthew is it? I think we're still on eight, aren't we? I forget. Well, there's only one Matthew, right? Yes, is it Matthew chapter eight?

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Oh. Yes, focus. Finished Matthew eight last week.

SPEAKER_04 1:10

We're on nine.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

So we started nine and got through two.

SPEAKER_04 1:21

Uh small shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

We started nine.

SPEAKER_04 1:31

We're gonna start on nine? Okay, and we're just gonna run as that. Alright, Matthew Knight it is. Alright.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

And then Mike Winger apparently got into an argument with some fellows of the Islamic religion. Oh you did. Yes, he did. And you're the one who recommended the story. And then Erica and Eric Metaxis. There was an episode where Eric Eric talked about Erica on the Eric Metaxis show. So we're gonna talk about that. And then that's it. So, Trevor, do you have any thoughts before we begin? Anything to reguile the audience? Any pearls of wisdom you would like to talk about?

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Me have wisdom? Yes. I don't know. I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_04 2:21

That's disappointing. Alright, well we'll just jump right in then. You wanna read or shall I? Let's see.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

We're doing Exodus, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:31

Yes, I just did the intro.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

Okay. Exodus one. Verse 1. You're gonna do it?

SPEAKER_03 2:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Or do you wanna read?

SPEAKER_03 2:43

I'll read. Okay, now these are the names of the children of Israel which came into Egypt. Every man in his household came with Jacob. Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah, Issachar, Zebulun and Benjamin, Dan and Nephtali, Gad and Asher. And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were severe were seventy souls, for Joseph was in Egypt already. And Joseph died, and all his brethren and all that generation. And the children of Israel were fruitful and increased abundantly and multiplied and waxed exceedingly mighty, and the land was filled with them. Now there arose up a new kingdom over Egypt, which knew not Joseph. And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of Israel of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we. Come, let us deal wisely with them, lest they multiply. And it come to pass that when there falleth uh when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies and fight against us, and so get them up out of the land. By the way, hello, Calix, it's good to see ya. So, and therefore therefore they did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens, and they built for Pharaoh treasures um built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pitham and Ramses. But the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew, and they were grieved because of the children of Israel. And the Egyptians made the children of Israel to serve with rigor, and they made their lives bitter with hard bondage in mortar and in brick, and in all manner of service in the field. All their service wherein they made them serve was with rigor. And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shifra, and the name of the other was Pua, and he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools, if it be a son, then ye shall kill him. If it be a daughter, then ye shall then she shall live. But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men, children alive. And the king of Egypt called for the midwives and said unto them, Why have ye done this thing and have saved the men children alive? And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women, for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives and are and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them. Therefore God dealt well with the midwives, and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty, and it came to pass because the midwives feared God that he made them houses. And Pharaoh charged all his people, saying, Every son that is born knee shall cast into the river, and every daughter ye shall save alive. And that is chapter one. Thoughts before moving on. Wait, why did he throw all the kids in the water? He's trying to limit the population of the Jewish people. They got too popular, they're scared of getting overrun.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

So the Hebrews were fruitful and they multiplied. And the Egyptian overlord didn't like it.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Pharaoh. That's what he's called.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

And the midwives, who were apparently a lot more knowledgeable about the day and hour they were in than some of the nurses from a few years back, few years back, just saying uh they did not go with the government mandate and uh spared the children. So uh that's my political tie-in. That's about as subtle as a train. So uh yeah, they did the right thing and didn't go along with the crowd. One of those not going along with the crowd stories.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

You ever seen that movie called the Midway? I have not. Oh I guess we could move on.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

We're gonna move on? Alright. Exodus chapter two. And there went a man of the house of Levi and took a wife of a daughter of Levi, and took to wife a daughter of Levi, and the woman conceived and bare a son, and when she saw him that he was a goodly goodly child, she hid him three months. And when she could no longer when she could not long I'm gonna get through this, I swear. And when she could not longer hide him, she took for him an ark of bull bulrushes, and daubed it with slime and with pitch, and put the child therein, and she laid it in the flags by the river's brink. And his sister stood afar off to wit what would be done to him. And the daughter of Pharaoh came down to wash herself at the river, and her maidens walked along the river's side, and when she saw the ark among the flags, she sent her maid to fetch it. And when she had opened it, she saw the child, and behold, the babe wept, and she had compassion on him, and said, This is one of the Hebrews' children. Then said to his sister to Pharaoh's daughter, Shall I go and call to thee a nurse of the Hebrew women that she may nurse the child for thee? And Pharaoh's daughter said to her, Go, and the maid went and called the child's mother. And Pharaoh's daughter said unto her, Take this child away and nurse it for me, and I will give thee thy wages. And the woman took the child and nursed it. And the child grew, and she brought him unto Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son, and she called his name Moses, and she said, Because I drew him out of the water. And it came to pass in those days when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked out on their burdens, and he spied an Egyptian smiting a Hebrew, one of his brethren. And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian and hit him in the sand. And when he went out the second day, behold, two men of the Hebrews strove together, and he said to them that did the wrong, Wherefore smitest thou thy fellow? And he said, Who made thee a prince and a judge over us? Intendest thou to kill me as thou killedest the Egyptian? And Moses feared and said, Surely this thing is known. And when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses, but Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh and dwelt in the land of Midian, and he sat down by a well. Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters, and they came and drew water, and filled the troughs to water their f uh to water their father's flock. And the shepherds came and drove them away. But Moses stood up and helped them and watered their flock. Well watered their flock. And when they came to rule their father, he said, How is it that ye are come so soon today? And they said, An Egyptian delivered us out of the hand of the shepherds, and also drew water enough for us, and watered the flock. And he said unto his daughters, And where is he? Why is it that ye have left the man? Call him that he may eat bread. And Moses was content to dwell with the man, and he gave Moses Zephorah, his daughter, and she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershem, for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land. And it came to pass in process of time that the king of Egypt died, and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage. And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob. And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them. That's chapter two.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

There is a lot in that chapter.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

Yes, yes, there is. Remember the Prince of Egypt?

SPEAKER_02 11:55

It was a great cartoon. That was a great cartoon. I wish I wish they would have redone a movie uh with Charlton Heston. What's that one called? Uh the Ten Commandments, yeah. I wish they would have redone a movie like the Ten Commandments, but with the storytelling of the Prince of Egypt.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

Like an updated modern retelling. Yeah. Well, they tried, but the liberals got a hold of it and turned it into a it was all in a Moses' mind kind of deal. It was uh, what was it? Exodus of Gods and Kings with Christian Bale, I think was what it was called. Yeah. Movie was terrible. It was all in his mind. You see, it was much like the Odyssey. Have you heard about the Odyssey of the last little bit that came out last week or so?

SPEAKER_02 12:50

They're doing a new movie or show on Odyssey.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

Yeah. It's it's just the Odyssey. You know, remake. Um they basically tried the same stuff, only with the Greek, you know, myth mythological thing. Athena's all a part of Odysseus's imagination. But they tried that with uh with the Exodus story, and of course it that movie went over like a wet fart in the night, and uh as it should have, as it should have.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

So uh they tried because I really like Tom Holland and he's in it.

SPEAKER_03 13:25

Oh, Tom Holland's in the Odyssey Spider-Man. Spider-Man, yeah. Yeah, well, they say the movie's terrible. It's it's apparently very bad if you uh if you're a fan of the book or have read the book in any capacity, you're gonna hate this, apparently. So it's not even close to the Iliad. No, no, it's like the Iliad's the fall of Troy, so Odyssey's a different thing, but uh Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Isn't it all like one big story?

SPEAKER_03 13:57

It's kind of like a part two thing. Like the Iliad is yeah, the War of Troy and the Trojan Horse, and then Odyssey takes place immediately afterwards. It's Odysseus's return voyage home. Right. Yeah. So Troy, remember the movie Troy, Brad Pitt, Eric Banna, great movie. Well, great movie. I was in my I hate Brad Pitt days, so I didn't like it at the time. But considering everything that's come out of late, I'm like, you know, that was a good movie. So compared to the the slop that's coming out now. I'm like, you know, we were kind of spoiled back in the early 2000s. Everything's crap right now.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Like with uh 300. Um at the time we were like, 300's a great movie, but man, it's everything before 2016 looks like a Picasso right now.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

Like it's just it's just embarrassing. It's it's horrible. But anyway, yeah, I would love to see a modern uh retelling of Exodus as well, but they actually have to put God in it, and God can't be a figment of some goof, you know, some imaginary figure, he can't be an imaginary figure, you know? Yeah. And of course, that's exactly what they're going to do because these people would sooner light themselves on fire than even pretend that there's a God. So you know, they're all angry at their fathers or something.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

They can't even bathom making God real in their head.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

It hurt too bad.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

It hurt too bad.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

They'd hear their father's voice in their head. Now, young lady, you can't go out partying at night. Shut up, Dad. I do what I want.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

I would like them to do a show or movie. Mainly a show. Where instead of just jumping from when he's a baby to showing him being raised as an Egyptian.

SPEAKER_04 16:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Because that's that's exactly what happened here. Is is there's years. There's like what 30 epsilon years between Exodus 2 and Exodus 3.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

I don't remember the exact timeline. I I believe Yeah, I believe he's close to 80 or something whenever he gets called back. But I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Yeah. So r right here in Exodus 2, he's like in his at least 1920.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

Well, if memory serves me right, he's about 40 at this point, but I could be wrong.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_03 16:44

I could be wrong. It could be he's 40 when he's called back, and then no, I'm pretty sure that's I'll Google it here in a second. Let me finish lighting my pipe.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

Never mind. Never mind.

SPEAKER_04 16:56

My my my match went out anyway. You can Google it while I light my pipe. How about we do that?

SPEAKER_02 17:34

He was around about forty. He was forty years old the first time he left.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

So I'm right then. So I'm right. When he's in Midian, he was forty, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

So I thought. See uh it it goes it jumps straight from when he's a baby to forty. So I would I would love a TV show where it's just him and the hortic years that he was at Egypt. Or however long he was there.

SPEAKER_03 18:05

Yeah. Well, aren't you a little scared of getting another house of David?

SPEAKER_02 18:10

Oh, of course. That was terrible. The House of Saul's wife.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

Yeah, the House of Sal's wife, yes. What was her name again? I don't even remember. It's like there's barely any David in this at all. What are we watching here? It's like a terrible Game of Thrones knockoff. Yeah, I would love to see something like that if they could do something other than uh you know, some sort of ode to DEI or whatever. Alright, well we got another knockoff. Yeah. Well, we got one more chapter. How about you take this one over?

SPEAKER_02 18:51

Hang on, I gotta load it. I'm just gonna. Chapter three. Now Moses kept the clock up death row. Can you hear me good?

SPEAKER_03 19:05

Yep, you're good.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

I'm gonna check the live stream just real quick.

SPEAKER_04 19:11

Alright, checking the live stream. Are we already suspended because I complained about House of David?

SPEAKER_02 19:19

No, we're good. You can hear us.

SPEAKER_04 19:22

Alright, go on, my good sir.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro, his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the backside of the desert and came to the mountain of God, even to Hereb. And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. And he looked, and behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. Did you imagine it? Doing your thing, chasing down a sheep. And all of a sudden, fire. Bush. The bush is not burning. What's going on?

SPEAKER_03 20:08

Well, I wonder how long it took him to figure out that it wasn't burning. It seems like it would take some time before you're like, wait, that thing ain't going anywhere. What's going on here? So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

Moses said, I will now turn aside and see this great sight. Why the bush is not burnt. And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush and said, Moses, Moses, and he said, Here I am. And he said, Draw not nigh hither, put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. Moreover, he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face for he was afraid to look upon God. And the Lord said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters. For I know their sorrows. And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land, unto a good land, and a large unto a land flowing with milk and honey, unto the place of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizites and the Hivites and the Jebisites. Why do they call 'em all sites?

SPEAKER_03 21:56

I have no idea. That's a very good question. I'm not sure. That would be an editing. Etymology type question.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Because they're all parasites.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

See, now you're just bringing now we need Cody in here to comment on this parasite parallel. It's all coming together. No, no, you're good.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Now therefore, behold the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me. And I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them. Come now, therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people, the children of Israel out of Egypt. And Moses said unto God, Who am I? That I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt. And he said, Certainly I will be with thee, and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee. When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain. And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel and shall shall say unto them, The God of your fathers have sent me unto you, and they shall say to me, What is his name? What shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I am that I am, and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I am hath sent me unto you. And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me unto you. This is my name forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. Go and gather the elders of Israel together and say unto them, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt. And I have said I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt unto the land of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites, and the Parasites and the Hibites and the Jebusites unto a land flowing with milk and honey. And they shall hearken to thy voice, and thou shalt come thou and the elders of Israel unto the king of Egypt, and ye shall say unto them Him, The Lord God of the Hebrews hath met with us, and now let us go. We beseech thee three days journey into the wilderness that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God. And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand. And I will stretch out my hand and smite Egypt with all my wonders, which I shall do in the midst thereof, and after that he will let you go. And I will give this people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, and it shall come to pass that when ye go, ye shall not go empty. But every woman shall borrow of their of her neighbor, and of her that sojourneth in her house jewels of silver and jewels of gold and raiment, and you shall put them upon your sons and upon your daughters, and you shall spoil the Egyptians.

SPEAKER_03 25:59

Okay, one more note before we call the end of chapter three. I just want to point out that when you're looking here at 19 because what's one of the big Calvinist defenses? Like the idea that you don't have free will and everybody's kind of moved from one thing to the next. They always uh use Romans 8 and 9 and the the example of Pharaoh that's used in that passage. But if you'll note here, it says, God is sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by mighty hand. It's not saying that he isn't going to manipulate. Yeah, God's not saying he's gonna make the Egyptian Pharaoh, Egyptian Pharaoh, follow his will or like brainwash him or anything. He says, I know I already know he's not gonna let you go. So he's not making any claim to like influence his will here. He's just already anticipating what the Pharaoh's gonna do.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

Kind of like uh you would give me a kind of a plan to go talk to somebody, and you would you would be like, I know he's gonna say no, but if you push, he'll change his mind later.

SPEAKER_03 27:06

Right. Right. It's like you go, you sometimes you have to do things even though you know what the person's gonna do, and then you gotta do something else, and then you gotta do something else. There's nothing here about God removing the Pharaoh's sentience or some broader claim about free will here. It's like they're already in God is already anticipating what's gonna happen and is planning accordingly. That's the way I would read that. Yeah, it makes sense. So this does not I don't seem I think that verse 19 doesn't really help the Calvinist case, in my humble opinion.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

Yeah, uh maybe some Calvinist will be like anybody's case.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

Well, I'm sure maybe we can get a Calvinist on here and be like, this is why you're wrong! How dare you!

SPEAKER_02 27:54

How dare you? What I did notice though is that God calls him the king of Egypt. He he never calls him the pharaoh. Oh why why would that be?

SPEAKER_04 28:05

That's a good question. I have no idea. King of Egypt. Hmm, not the Pharaoh.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Huh?

SPEAKER_04 28:16

Sorry, go on.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Maybe it's because God doesn't see him as a deity. And Pharaoh is some sort of deity.

SPEAKER_03 28:24

Right, the title might imply that he's deified and God wouldn't acknowledge that. That's a possibility.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

Will we read long enough? Do you wanna keep going or No, we're good.

SPEAKER_03 28:41

Chapter three, I think, is insufficiently explored.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

So next week we'll do chapter four and forward. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 28:50

Hang on here. Alright. Entertain the folks while I find Matthew 9.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

Folks, you are entertained. In the name of I am, you are entertained. Ooh. I can do a dad joke.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

Go for it, I'm busy.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Oh. Um, do you need to build a a boat? I know a guy.

SPEAKER_03 29:23

That was horrible. That was painful and awful and awkward and the whole nine jars.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

You could say he's an architect.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

Oh, that's right. We did the demoniac last week, and that led to the conversation about magic and essences.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

Magical essence. Sorry, my list got the better better of me there.

SPEAKER_04 29:46

It's alright. Alright. We're on to Matthew chapter nine.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

You mean a reader? Do you want to do an intro, or do you want to do that?

SPEAKER_03 29:58

No, we're not. We're not editing episodes for a time being. Have we made that announcement in a couple weeks?

SPEAKER_02 30:03

Yeah, I think we made we've made it every week, actually.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

Alright, well, I'll make it again just in case we forgot. So, folks, we're not gonna be editing weekly like breaking this up and then posting it in little uh smaller snippets for a little while. Uh mainly because I'm busy working on a book and I need every ounce of time I can get to try to get it done. It's a nonfiction thing, so the research is kind of heavier than anticipated. So we're going to hold off on breaking things up into episodes, like we were doing probably Lord Willing and the Creek don't rise. We will probably return to a normal schedule in January. If not January, then maybe February. Maybe we'll play it by ear. We will play it by ear. We'll have to see. We'll have to see. Uh depends on how things go over the next five, six months. But uh yeah, that that is I no longer have editing time, so we're just basically doing the live stream, and that's about it. And it'll be that way for a little bit, and then we'll get back to it in January, hopefully. Okay, so announcement is done. Oh, one more announcement before I forget, because you know, fill our time. Uh buy my book. I have books on Amazon. Gary Paul Varner on Amazon. This is number four. The handle's a psalm.

SPEAKER_04 31:29

Trevor's one.

SPEAKER_03 31:30

Yes, thank you. Trevor's holding number one, the familiar. Uh, hang on. You're you can't see it on your screen. Keep it lifted, keep it lifted. There you go. There's a familiar. Yeah, that's book one. This is book four. They're on Amazon in shameless plug. So there you go. Uh, anyway. So we are on Matthew chapter nine. Let me get a drink here and then I will start it. Stop me if you have any thoughts. Good sir. Alright. What are thoughts? Random syllables that are uttered in your head mixed with pictures.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

You don't want to hear all my thoughts. I have too many dad jokes up there.

SPEAKER_03 32:21

It's like just all dad jokes. It's like not even relevant to the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

Alright. Okay, here we go. Well, the arc one was, because Moses was into an arc. I thought that was interesting too. I was like, she made him an arc.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

Yeah, that's just a called a basket. Yeah, another way they called a basket. Flotation apparatus. Yeah. Alright, let's see. Matthew chapter nine. And he entered into a ship and passed over and came into his own city. And behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed. And Jesus, seeing their faith, said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, be of good cheer, thy sins be forgiven thee. Alright, we did talk about the beginning of nine here, didn't we? Uh and behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth. And Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, Wherefore ye think evil in your hearts? What for whether it is easier to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee, or to say, Arise and walk? And but that ye may know that the Son of Man hath power on earth to forgive sins. Then saith he to the sick of the palsy, Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. And he arose and departed to thy house. Okay, let me read one more verse here. And when the multitude saw this, they marveled and glorified God, which had given such power unto men. Okay, so we talked about this last time. We talked about the fact that um miracles back in the day, they weren't necessarily there to prove God because atheists weren't nearly as popular as they are now, and so it was to prove the authority of the speaker. So when Christ says he can forgive sins, and the Pharisees are thinking only God can forgive sins, then he says, I'm doing this so you know I have the ability to forgive sins, and then the man picks up his mat and walks. He's saying that his words are true, that the miracle bears authority. Therefore, since he does indeed have the power to forgive sins, he is God. That's the whole point of that exchange. He is declaring that he is God.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

So can I forgive your sins?

SPEAKER_03 34:45

That's one of those questions I'm not sure. Like, in a salvific sense, only Christ can forgive sins, right? Yeah. So now whether God will like withhold wrath against somebody if we forgive them of their sins, you might make the argument that that can happen because one of the endings of the gospels, I can't remember which one, says if you forgive, you know, if you forgive somebody's sins, they are forgiven. So that that authority, in in at least in a certain respect, goes on to the believer. But I I don't think that means anything in the salvific sense. I think it's like God withholding punishment from the individual in life, would be what I expect.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

Or punishment in your own head.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_02 35:38

Well, if you live your whole life pissed off at somebody because of something they did instead of forgiving them, you are going to suffer yourself.

SPEAKER_03 35:48

Because that's true. We're gonna have to.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

So when you forgive someone of like let's say just cheating on you, you get this sense of relief that you let it go. And you don't think about it anymore because you forgave them, and God helps you get over it more or less.

SPEAKER_03 36:15

Right. I do believe uh we've got it here. The passage you're referring to, of course, it's out of sync. I'm not gonna mess around a fix in the box, I'm just gonna read it. Uh, this is got questions. We use these guys quite a bit. Um, in John 20, 23, Jesus tells his disciples, if you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven. The very core of the gospel message is the truth that the way someone has their sins forgiven is by having faith in Jesus Christ as his or her Lord and Savior. In Acts 10.43, when Peter was sharing the gospel, he said, Everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name. First John 5 1 through 5 tells us only who only he who believes in Jesus will overcome the world. Luke 5 20 says, When Jesus saw their faith, he said, Friend, your sins are forgiven. Colossians 20 13 through 14 says Jesus forgave all our sins. All these passages confirm that Jesus is the one who forgives sins and he forgives all of our sins. If we had, if we have had genuine faith in him, someone else cannot later decide. Uh someone else cannot later decide we are not forgiven one sin or another. So, what exactly did Jesus mean in John 2023? Only God can forgive sins, and Christ, being God, has the power to do so as well. But he never communicated any such power to his disciples, nor did they ever assume any such power to themselves. The key to understanding the meaning of John 2023 lies in the previous two verses. Again, Jesus said, Peace be with you, as the Father has sent me, I am sending you. And with that he breathed on them and said, Receive the Holy Spirit. He sent them, as he is sending us, to bring the good news of the way to salvation and heaven to the whole world. And Jesus was leaving the earth physically, but promised God would be with them in the person of the Holy Spirit living in them. As they proclaimed the gospel, they could honestly tell people who believed in that message that their sins were forgiven, and they could honestly tell people that did not believe in the message that their sins were not forgiven, and that they stand condemned in God's eyes. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him. Okay, so they're saying that this is basically Christ reiterating that uh the gospel will forgive their sins. I don't know if I agree with that, because he's saying if you forgive sins, then their sins will be forgiven. And if you don't forgive the sins, their sins won't be forgiven. I think you've got a distinction and classification, but we'd have to look at it to see for sure. I don't know if I buy that that's just another way of saying, well, he's describing salvation. Could be, but I don't know. Let's see. It told you, it told us to look at the previous two verses, so we'll just go ahead and do that. So let me look up John 20, and we will just take a gander.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

Gandering, he's gandering. And also at one point, I don't remember where it's at, but he says, forgive ye one to another. Mm-hmm. Didn't he say that somewhere?

SPEAKER_03 39:52

Yeah, you're supposed to forgive people. Yeah, you're always we're gonna be talking about that later. But yes, you are supposed to forgive, and forgiveness is extremely important. Right. We'll get into that here in a minute. But let's see. Uh it said to look up to the two verses prior. Um, and Jesus said to them again, peace be unto you. As let me switch this window over really quick. Alright. Then Jesus said to them again, Peace be unto you, as my father hath sent me, even so I send you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them and saith unto them, Receiveth ye the Holy Ghost. Okay, so this is, I think the argument is they've gotten the Holy Ghost, and now they're about to get instructions. Receive ye the Holy Ghost. But I think they don't get the Holy Ghost until Pentecost, I believe. So that came later, so this might still be the same thought. I don't know if this is breaking up into a new section or not. Let's say that it isn't, and we're following the same train, I think. Alright, and Jesus uh whosoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them, and whosoever sins ye retain, they are retained. But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didamas, was not with them when Jesus came. I don't know why that's relevant. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord, but he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand unto his side, I will not believe. Okay, so that's actually a breaking up into the story about doubting Thomas. Okay, so interestingly, the retaining line is the end of that section. So let's go up and see if we can find the beginning of that section. Okay, uh, give me a minute. Okay, here we go. So the section actually begins in 19. So then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut, where the disciple where the disciples were ascended for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst and said unto them, Peace be unto you. And when he had so said, he showed unto them his hands and his side, then were the disciples glad when they saw the Lord. Okay, and then we get into peace be unto you. Okay, so the Holy Ghost and the ability to forgive sins, those are connected. Maybe got questions is right. Maybe got questions is right, because I can't, given the context, I can't think of another way to make that fit. What do you think? Well, I think the context of it this is definitely a precursor leading up into Hul into uh Pentecost. We're not very far off from Acts, you know. So So the Holy Ghost promise is delivered here. Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and say I'm gonna I mean I'm not sure, but without doing a super in-depth study that would take hours, I don't think we're going to get any more information out of that. I'm going to say got questions is right, and this is basically a commission line.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

Commission for all of us. Well, it's like to go spread the gospel.

SPEAKER_03 44:33

Yes, we are we are supposed to forgive. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

So is that like a passive forgive or passive forgive?

SPEAKER_03 44:44

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 44:45

Well say say someone something happens and you you you can either more or less turn the other cheek let go. Or say someone is coming after you. Do you forgive them or do you defend yourself?

SPEAKER_03 45:09

So you mean like, are you saying forgiveness and pacifism are the same thing?

SPEAKER_02 45:14

Is it? I'm asking.

SPEAKER_03 45:16

I would say no. Um, yeah, you gotta defend yourself, and you know, just because you forgive somebody doesn't mean that you've got to allow future evil. I mean, look, we got the Charlie Kirks thing is a perfect example, which we'll be talking about later tonight. I mean, Erica in that conference said she forgave the man that killed her husband, um, and yet they're still doing the trial. I mean, sometimes you have to forgive somebody in that you want them to be saved. You're not gonna continue to dwell on what they did and stew and think about stuff on on loop, you know what I mean? You can let stuff go and push it on and and push on, but that doesn't mean that you don't expect that person to be punished in the law in the eyes of the law, because if you don't have the punishment, then they'll potentially hurt other people. You know, there's a difference between refusing to think about something a lot and dwelling on something continuously. There's a difference between well, it's just like in behavior, you know what I mean? Just because somebody has to go through the process to be punished for a crime, that doesn't mean you have to sit there and be rude to them and you know treat them with disgust or whatever. You can still be kind to them while they're going through that process, listen to them if they want to talk or you know, do little things that as far as it's up to you, as Paul would put it. You know, it's it's um I th I would say forgiveness is uh rooted very much in your attitude as to how you approach things, you know, and if for whatever reason, you know, the law fails, let's say, you know, you don't can like hold harbor resentment or whatever towards that person.

SPEAKER_02 47:11

Revenge.

SPEAKER_03 47:12

Yeah, you let God handle the vengeance, as it were.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

Uh but vengeance is mine, say it though.

SPEAKER_03 47:18

But no, you still gotta defend yourself, and you still gotta defend other people, you know. But there's a difference between dealing with problems as they arise and then plotting to get even. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's a difference between taking care of an immediate problem that's in front of you and then plotting to make something that you feel is a wrong be made right. You understand? Yeah, yeah. It's the distinction between anger and bitterness. Like you can get angry in a moment when you've got a situation that you've got to deal with, but once the fight or the battle or whatever the argument's over, you gotta put it up, you gotta put it away. Like when the fight's done, let it be done. Don't keep stewing. That's the way I've always understood it. Well, what do you think?

SPEAKER_02 48:13

Yeah, just don't uh forgive them and move on.

SPEAKER_03 48:27

What is what do you think forgiveness means? In your own words, what do you think forgiveness means?

SPEAKER_02 48:36

It means I forgive them, I let it go, I move on, and then I'm aware that that is a possibility. So I've forgiven it, I've let it go, but I'm still aware. And I'll turn the other cheek and whatnot, but use another word other than forgive.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

Don't use a word to define a word. Let go. Uh move on. Move on. Um don't think about it. Are you are you trying to say the same thing I'm saying, or do you have a distinction? Is what I'm trying to get at.

SPEAKER_02 49:21

I I've got the word in my head. I just can't say. You mean dwell? It's dwell, yeah. Uh it's a big long word.

SPEAKER_04 49:33

Uh a big long word.

SPEAKER_03 49:36

Marinate. Marinate. Okay. Yeah. That's it. Don't marinate in the problem. Alright. Very good. Very good. Alright. Well we shall move on to Matthew chapter nine, I guess. Keep going, unless we have anything that we want to add on that point.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

Well, I like, I like.

SPEAKER_03 50:18

Your computer's going crazy. Well, you're still working here.

SPEAKER_02 50:25

Okay. That was creepy. What happened? Well, before we started streaming, I had all these videos up to talk to you about what we were gonna talk about.

SPEAKER_01 50:39

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 50:40

And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, they just all started playing all at once. It was like, ah.

SPEAKER_03 50:49

Well, interesting. I didn't hear that. Wow. Hopefully, they didn't show up on the stream. Ah, well. Let's see.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

I don't see anybody in there to hear it.

SPEAKER_03 51:01

All right, well, let's move on. Uh, we're starting on Matthew 9, 9. And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the receipt of customs, and he saith unto them, Follow me, and he arose and followed him.

SPEAKER_02 51:19

Wait, wait, wait. What's a receipt of customs? What does that mean?

SPEAKER_03 51:23

He's a tax collector, I believe. I think that's what that is. It's like he's uh handling the receipts of the taxes.

SPEAKER_02 51:31

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

Something like that, like he's dealing with bills. That's the way I understand it. Some equivalent of that. And that'd be like the official term of whatever documentation they had from the time. And it came to pass as Jesus sat at meat in the house. Behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your master with publicans and sinners? And then what are publicans? What's it like politicians, political figures? I don't know. We could look it up. Hang on. What is what is a publican?

SPEAKER_02 52:14

Because I'm thinking like like bad like actors and stuff. Like they were.

SPEAKER_03 52:24

Yes, it'd be very it'd be a lot easier if I could spell. Uh it's saying tax collector who worked for the Roman Empire. So there it would be other tax collectors.

SPEAKER_02 52:37

So Matthew at this point would have been a publican, basically.

SPEAKER_03 52:41

Yes. Yes. Indubitably. Alright, let's see here 12. And he said, Master of Republican sinners. And when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what the Messiah, learn what that meaneth. But go ye and learn what that meaneth. I will have mercy and not sacrifice, for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. And then came the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast off, but thy disciples fast not? And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bride chamber mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? But the days will come when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast? We need to fast more. I don't fast, though. Like I'd be a hypocrite if I was like saying Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:49

Yeah, if I push it. Don't take my word for it. Read your Bible. Over and over again. They're like, don't take my word for it, read your Bible. Yeah, the question is. I'll teach you, I can learn you, I can tell it to you until I'm blue in the face. But until you read it for yourself in the spirit, whatever. You're not really gonna get God's word.

SPEAKER_03 54:33

I don't know. Yeah, I uh the closest to fasting I get is intermittent fasting, which basically means I eat one meal a day, but that's mostly because of time. I I can't imagine having time to eat three meals a day. That just seems incomprehensible to me. I'm like, how how can you do that?

SPEAKER_02 54:54

I like eating when I'm hungry, not when society tells me to eat.

SPEAKER_03 55:01

Yeah, I've got my time. It's you know, pretty much the same time, it's right after the gym, every day, and then I don't eat for the rest of the day because it's just like there's no flipping time to do so. So, I mean, but yeah, but that's not fasting, though, really. I mean, you're supposed to be like praying and reading your Bible and trying to connect with God while you're not eating.

SPEAKER_02 55:24

So I have I have done it a few times, and I definitely felt closer to God where I didn't eat.

SPEAKER_03 55:32

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:33

The longest I've gone is is four days.

SPEAKER_03 55:36

Four days.

SPEAKER_02 55:38

Well, you got maybe that was crazy because I was I made the best hamburgers I have ever smelled, and I was so hungry, but it was extremely humbling because I'm feeding feeding my family, and at the time I was feeding my my sister-in-law who was living with us, and the the best was to learn okay, how do I get over myself not liking living with her? That was kind of my between me and God part of it. I was like, I need help not being frustrated with this lady living with us, because it's it's just happening. Yeah. So what do I do? And I was getting a lot of like from YouTube videos and stuff, fast. Do fasting like over and over again. It'd be like fasting. Everyone was talking about fasting. So I finally was like, okay, I'll try fasting. And I did a prayer between just God and me, and I kept it between him and me for four days, and I have never felt more spiritual spiritually alive, I guess you could say.

SPEAKER_03 57:12

Nice. So did you learn how to learn a lesson about living with the with the gal for the time or whatever it was?

SPEAKER_02 57:21

I I I did. I uh he taught me a lot about humbleness. How to humble yourself.

SPEAKER_03 57:30

So you had to be humble, like were you getting impatient with little things? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:37

Anything she did was stupid and wrong.

SPEAKER_03 57:41

Is this before the fast or after the fast? Before. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 57:45

Before the fast. Everything she did, I thought, was just it was just irritating. She walked down the hallway, it's irritating. So yeah, and it it was actually it almost ended my marriage, and then I was like, God, I need to fix this. What do I do?

SPEAKER_01 58:09

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 58:10

And all the little signs and everything was like, fast. Do some fasting. Interesting. So like I came across I was reading my Bible and l mostly listening to it on on uh an app that I have. And it talked a lot about fasting. And I don't remember what passage I was in, but then I had YouTube videos about fasting. And it was just random, like I wasn't looking up fasting, it just randomly would come across my feed.

SPEAKER_03 58:51

Just randomly coming across your feed, huh?

SPEAKER_02 58:54

So every morning when I get to work, I I just open up YouTube to listen to stuff. Uh-huh. And it would usually be the first video talking about fasting. And I I never looked it up or anything like that.

SPEAKER_03 59:09

Oh, yeah. You never looked up fasting before? Did I hear that?

SPEAKER_02 59:14

No, I have, but at that point, I would I had not the it the algorithm of it sending me fasting videos would not have made sense unless either God was trying to tell me something, or Google's listening in to my prayers.

SPEAKER_03 59:40

I don't know, man. Maybe that phone, you never know. It's a little invasive.

SPEAKER_02 59:46

CIA was telling me to fast, and that would solve my problem.

SPEAKER_03 59:49

I don't know why your agent was so invested in your well-being on that day. Yeah. But yeah, let's see. Uh on the subject, there is a book. I can never get the word right. It's the Diaki D I D uh A-C-H-E, the Diaki. It's the first, this is the teachings of the apostles. Supposedly, this is like the first Christian writing that's been ever been found, from what I understand. And it talks about fasting regulations in the original church. And uh according to it, they fasted like once or twice a week. I've read through it, details are very hazy, but I had read through it once. And uh, yeah, apparently you're supposed to fast once or twice a week. I I do not, but yeah, that's what they were required to do back in the day.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:42

Interestingly. From my own personal, this is just me. I don't I don't know. It's a covenant or promise between you and God. I'm gonna fast, and then you make an agreement. Okay, I'm not gonna eat at all until you give me an answer. Whether that be a day or a week. Or whatever. And I got my basically my answer within four days, and it was just I just had to humble myself. And uh everything just kind of I wasn't angry towards my sister-in-law as much as I was before, and it just I don't know. It made it made sense after a few days after four days.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:52

Alright. Was there a specific moment where you decided it made sense?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:56

When I handed her that hamburger, and because she didn't like my hamburgers before that one, she wouldn't eat them. And that would that time she ate it, and it was like I have to humble myself. Gotcha. Uh-huh. I have to humble myself. Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:19

Well, there you go. There's a fasting account. I have nothing to contribute because I've not had the will to do that before. I think I've gone a day without eating, maybe. Yeah, it's not easy. Yeah. So all right. Well, I guess that's uh where are we at? We'll see.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:40

Where do we shop on Matthew 9?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:42

Uh 13, 14. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:47

Yeah, so it was 14. No, it was 15. 15.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:52

Yeah, so next week we will pick it up on Matthew 9, 16, and that will be it. Alrighty then. So there you go. Very good. On to the next subject. Trevor, would you like to explain to us what Mike Winger stumbled on to? I guess it'd be a couple weeks ago.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:16

Yeah, this was hold on, I'm looking for my spot.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:20

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:22

Oh, where'd it go? No, don't start playing everything again. You silly goose.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:31

Oh no. Is your computer still still like doing that whole po poltergeist routine?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:39

No, not froze.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:42

Where'd it go? Your computer froze.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:47

How are you still online? I don't know. And I'm glad you are.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:52

I think it was just uh it wouldn't like go to the tab that I wanted it to go to. Okay, so uh I learned of this from Ruslan KD.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:07

Um what'd poor Mike Winger get into?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:11

Mike Winger has been on kind of a hiatus the last month or so.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:17

Taking a break.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:20

And um. So most of them started going after Michael Jones. E.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:38

Michael Jones? Or Michael Jones? Who's Michael Jones?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:43

So on X, if you want to pull it up.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:46

Okay, hang on.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:48

Do you still have that loaded?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:49

Yes, I do. I'm just in the middle of uh feeding my tobacco addiction. Hang on here.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:56

Mmm, tobacco, tobacco. Anyways.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:59

So you want me to look who am I looking up on X? Mike Winger?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:02

No, no, no, just stay on Mike Winger. It's where you were. And then it's where Mike is talking about um Michael Jones. Yeah, that's it right there.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:14

Okay, so this is a different Michael Jones than what I'm thinking, then. Okay, so alright.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:21

Muslims are stalking and threatening Christians online who are seen as too successful at converting other Muslims to Christianity. My friend Michael Jones is one of those Christians. His family is in serious danger from these Muslims, and he needs to move to a different, safer house due to incredible threats. Real world stalking and doxing. If you have benefited from inspiring philosophy, YouTube content, or just want to help a brother keep his family safe, please consider donating. So this guy in my Michael Jones. I I don't know anything about him, but he he's a friend of Michael Ears.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:09

And they have been threatening to not just like come after him, but like kill him and his family, I guess. And so that's like a GoFundMe to help them move.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:25

Like they've done with Crowder, and then you've got the uh Christians in Nigeria.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:30

It's almost like there's a pattern.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:32

Kind of like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:34

Anyway, so they started going after Mike Winger, and Mike Winger decided to just start dropping on the same day a lot of stuff in the Quran.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:49

Are we going to go through that then?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:52

If you would like.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:53

Alright, let's see. Let's read some angry tweets. We need some theme music. Dun dungeon. Where's the Jeopardy music? We need Jeopardy music. Alright, anyway. Uh, the Apostle Cha Ann lied to my face and never so much as apologize. He promised an investigation related to the claims me and Ron Cantor made about him. That never happened. He is a liar. Okay, this is Bethel. That's Bethel. Yeah, this is this is Bethel. So that's not right. Okay, so one up. Due to recent increases in Muslim threats against Christians online, I have made a decision. I'm going to help expose Islam more. Mike, Mike, you're already doing so much, man. Alright. Okay, point number one. Muhammad had sex with a, I don't know if I could say that on YouTube, but with a child that was clearly underage, and you could totally see the age on X. So Muhammad saw his adopted son's wife and lusted after her. So he made them get divorced so he could add her to his harem of women. As one does. And after people complained that he can't marry his son's ex-wife, he outlawed adoption as a rule in Islam to justify this. He said God said so. That's a fun fact, Toy. We need Steven Crowder's Bob Ross interpretation to come back. We need a depiction of all these tweets. So, alright, let's see here.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:31

Well, um Ruslan KD does a pretty good job. He knows more about it than I do.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:39

Oh, you keyed it up. So is that what you want to do for the next 30 minutes? It's read Mike Winger's angry anti-Muslim uh tweets.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:48

We could if you want.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:50

We'll spend a few minutes here and see how this goes. Muhammad didn't like people asking him questions after dinner, so he got a revelation that God told him to tell everyone. They can't ask him questions after dinner. It's in the Quran now. Alright, all right. Okay here. What's another one? Muhammad seems to have been confused about what Christians believed that he thought the Trinity was Father, Son, and Mary. I have heard that. I have not heard that.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:20

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:21

Yeah, they uh they didn't understand Christianity all that well, so they thought Mary was part of the Trinity in their writings. You know, because it's divine. So uh Google is Mary Divine. No, she's just a regular person.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:37

Just regular. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:38

Well, I mean, you know, denominations vary.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:42

So do you think it's right or wrong, uh, let's say the Catholics to pray to the Mother Mary?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:48

Jess, who was a Catholic, explained it to me like this. She said it's just like you asking somebody in the congregation to uh pray for you. She said it's no different than that. That was the way she was taught to understand it as a little girl. Um, I don't know if I buy that, but I get the logic. I can see why somebody would say that.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:16

It'd be kind of like me talking to grandpa.

unknown 1:10:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:22

He's still lives on in my heart.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:26

But yeah, it'd be like uh talk to him, be like I'm sure there's a little more to it, because you know they they deem them them saints, and you pray to certain saints, and so it's like high ranking. Well, it's like well, Mary's higher than that, I think, in that I don't know what the term they would use is, but uh, you know, they uh you appeal to these righteous figures in heaven and you know ask them to pray on your behalf to God about A, B, or C. Um I think like a typical Baptist in this regard, I'm like, just talk to God, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:07

It's not like just go straight to the source.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:10

It's not like he can hear them better than you. I I mean he's everywhere, so just talk to him, he'd be fine. But that's one that's one man's opinion. But the way Jess explained it is it's more like praying, asking the congregation to pray for somebody on a prayer list. It's like the way she was taught to think about it in her church. So anyway.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:34

So moving on. What we got here?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:37

Um Google the Islamic Dilemma.

unknown 1:11:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:43

Should we Google that?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:49

Alright, let's see here. The Islamic dilemma.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:53

You're in a lot of Islamic dilemma.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:56

Islam. Ah, I can't spell. Dilemma.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:02

While you're trying to spell that. What do pigs like to listen to? I don't know. Pam radio.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:14

That made me mad. They always make me mad. I have the same reaction every time. I'm gonna have to start thinking of another reaction to have. We need a segment so you can just get it out of your system. Yeah. Okay, let's see here.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:33

So the Islamic Welcome to Gary News, where Gary tells his news, and I try and distract him with dad jokes the whole time.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:43

No momentum. No momentum to this show at all. Alright, let's see here. So the Islamic dilemma is a Christian apologetic argument focusing on how the Quran treats earlier Jewish encryption uh blah blah blah and Christian scriptures. It presents two conflicting options. Either the Bible is fully trustworthy, which conflicts with Islamic theology, or the Quran mistakenly validates a corrupted text.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:12

So, okay. So it's a book. Um website here. What we got here? Which is gcdiscipleship.com.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:29

Let's just look at this for a second. Hi, my name is Farat, and I am from Libya. I am a Muslim, and our Holy Quran has the words of God which have never been changed. Your Bible has been changed, and that is why God had to reveal the Holy Quran. It's nice to meet you. There were the first words of introduction from a young woman attending my English class several years ago Oh, he's a teacher. Great English class several years ago. While I have never heard anyone raise this challenge, quite so quickly, it has always been and continues to be the first objection to Christianity that Muslims raise. Regardless of the country in which I am traveling, the person's education level or the unique background of the individual, a corrupted gospel, meaning the fourfold gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, is the primary Muslim argument given to explain why Islam is true and Christianity is false. Of course, the evidence amassed over the past few thousand years indicate otherwise. But who wants to be who wants to bore their Muslim friends? Okay, so maybe I'm maybe I'm getting this guy. I thought he was a Muslim. Maybe he's on the other side. I don't. Yeah, I think I misread that. My bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:52

Well, you said he was a Muslim, didn't he?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:54

Yeah, I said hi. My name is Fer Ferjat. I am from Libya. I am a Muslim, and our Holy Quran has the words of God which have never been changed. But it's a quotation. I missed a quotation, Mark, because I'm a dummy. So anyway, all right, let's see here. Of course, the evidence of mass over the past few thousand years indicate otherwise, but who wants to bore their Muslim friends with vast quantities of erudite information on the proven reliability of ancient transmission through the careful study of textual criticism utilizing such documents as the Dead Sea Scrolls and early New Testament manuscripts to demonstrate the remarkably accurate preservation of the Bible through the millennia? That was a very long question.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:39

Um wait, what's the question?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:43

I'm not gonna read it again. Come on, man. Come on, man. Fortunately, there is an easier and far more effective way to respond to Muslims that not only invalidates their claim that our scriptures have been changed, but also call into question the reliability of the Quran at the same time. So we didn't get you into the argument. Do you want to keep going? Because this is going to be an apologetics website for the Quran or for the for the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:16

Oh. Oh, okay. I see.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:20

This is basically how to defend the Bible against Islam, which is interesting, but it's not really on point with what Mike Winger was dealing with. I will do one more side though before we return to Mike Winger, because I think this might be the appropriate time to do it. Unless you've got anything you want to add. No. Alright. Well, you all should look up the YouTube channel Fanderfilms. P F A-N-D-E-R. Fanderfilms. It's a fantastic YouTube channel. I think the guy's name's Jay Smith. We're gonna find out. Oh hang on here. Highly recommend that YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:13

Is it the F inside of P-F-A-N-D-E-R.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:19

Yep. So here we go. Here is Fander Films. So this guy's Jay Smith. He argues in Britain against Islam. He actually makes a claim that Muhammad didn't even exist and the Quran is entirely made up.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:40

Well yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:40

And I think he's got a pretty compelling argument. No, Muhammad didn't even exist. Muhammad may be a conglomeration of several historical figures. There's like a whole theory behind it. It's fascinating. And he goes into detail about it. And uh I yeah, here we go. Here's a video that's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:08

So I've been listening to an awful lot of you. You've been putting your comments on the video. We'll give it just a minute, especially from the last the four videos that I did on the book, Demand the Place, and the sources. This is number 38, number 39, number 40, and 41 in the most recent series, confronting the origins of Islam, the historical origins. And many of you are saying, is there any way you can encapsulate all of those four into one video? And I said, Yeah, it's a lawful lot of material. When you stop and think an hour for each one of those, four hours long, people will go to sleep. However, however, about 11 days ago, almost coming up to two weeks ago, I was in California, and uh Jack Hibbs, who is the pastor of Calvary Chapel Chino Hills, asked me to do a talk, a Wednesday evening talk. I was there for a conference and I stayed out along uh to for Wednesday. And they wanted this material, the origins of Islam, in one packet, in one talk. And they were only gonna give me one hour. One hour. Now, can you imagine taking what normally takes me when I teach it in my course eight to sixteen hours? They wanted to bring it down to just one hour. So I did, and you're gonna see what happens. So, what I would say, and I'll say this to you like I did then, uh just put your pens down. Don't try to take notes, don't try to keep up with me. I'm gonna say that again at the beginning of this next talk. Just go ahead and listen. I want you to listen, and then I'm gonna do uh a conclusion of it at the end of this. It's gonna be fast, very quick. And let's see if you it makes an impact on you in just one video, all of these areas, these four major areas uh that we are confronting Islam. Right, let's go back to Calvary Chapel Chino Hills in California about 11 to 12 days ago. I'm gonna do something that's unique.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:10

All right, so if if you want to see his case abbreviated into one hour and a half long video, the YouTube channel is Fanderfilms, that is Fanderfilms, P-F-A-N-D-E-R films, F-I-L-M-S. And the title of the video is J Shuts Down Islam's origins in one hour at Calvary Chapel, China Hills. Chino Hills. Chino with an O Hills. So yeah, apparently Mohammed may not even be real.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:51

Not to listen to that.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:52

Yeah, I mean, it would be very sad to realize Steven Crowder's Mohammed Bob Ross thing couldn't have possibly happened, and all those portraits are fake, but you know. Still interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:07

We might have to do a video on that because well they got taken down.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:12

Bob Ross estate was ticked.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:14

Oh, I see.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:15

Yeah, they're they're mad. Alright, so let's go back to Mike Winger reading making angry tweets. So let's see here. We we've we've googled the Islamic dilemma. Alright, what's next? The Quran says that the sun sets in a pool of mud on Earth somewhere. It says that Alexander the Great traveled west until he found that spot. And also says people live there at the pool of mud where the sun sits, which Alexander the Great visited once. Alright, is that that that's quite the flat earth theory right there? I don't think I've seen any models reflecting that. Alright. Anyway, okay, let's see here. So, next one. Leave Islam and turn to Christ. Go from darkness to light. Let your zeal for God be true. Zeal for the true God and his son who died for our sins and rose again.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:19

Oh true. Speaking of flat earth, uh, one of my co-workers the other day was like, Do you believe the earth is flat? And he started spewing off stuff about flat earth theories. And I was like, Well, my understanding of it is the earth is flat on the round spot. And he looked at me like, What?

SPEAKER_04 1:22:46

I hate you.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:48

And I it just like completely threw him for a loop, and he he he laughed and then walked off.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:56

You you missed a perfect marketing opportunity. You said we have done 18 videos on flat earth, they're all ridiculous. It was weeks, weeks of material. Yeah, I just told it. So frustrating.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:12

We have a podcast and we did talk about it. So he does know that it's there.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:17

I would say we're experts on flat earth, but during that entire time, I I felt like I learned nothing. It's just like it just all left as soon as it was over. It was a lot of material. And it was like, well. And then it turned out not to matter anyway, because that guy recorded the 24-hour sun, or they sent a couple of the flat earthers there. Where's Cody when you need him? Good night, man. Why didn't he show up tonight? He's probably sitting there in his bed watching us going, I should have been there.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:46

But um there's yeah, it's like you're messing it up.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:51

No, um they took a few of those flat earth guys down to the Antarctica and showed the 24-hour sun to deal, you know, basically nuclear models. And apparently it killed the movement or something. It did I haven't heard anything else about flat earth since that time. So I'm assuming it did a it did a pretty substantial blow there. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:23

You look like you're about to say something, are you are you good?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:26

I was just replaying that moment in my head where I it was like Yeah, the earth is wet. On the round spot it was like the perfect timing.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:42

Dry wood is gonna get you killed someday.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:45

Alright, returning to Mike Winger.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:49

Let's see here. Uh okay, S slaver has been standard Islamic practice for the majority of Islamic history. It didn't just happen alongside Islam as a cultural reality, it happened directly due to the teachings of Islam, its doctrine. S slavery is the doc is doctrine in Islam. I think he's trying to get some people riled up.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:19

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:24

I'm sure. Alright, the Quran limits Muslim men to only four wives. Well, we gotta have some limitations. But Muhammad had been had special permission from God to have as many wives as he wanted. It's because God told Muhammad to write that down. That's why. Don't blame Muhammad, he's just following orders. Yeah, David Kresh did the same thing. Got to sleep with all the men's wives to breed, because it was his sacred duty as uh the prophet or whatever. On Waco. Waco cult, yeah. I mean, the FBI is still evil and the ATF is still evil for what they did to that cult, but that was what do they do? They set the compound on fire in '93, remember?

SPEAKER_02 1:26:13

No, I don't. I don't know. Wow, we'll have to look into that sometime.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:17

That's I would say that's a turning point in this country, a pretty big one, but we'll have to get into that some other time.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:25

Like turning point in the USA.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:28

But it was bad. It was it was a bad turning point. It's like where things start to go south fast. So that's my opinion. But we'll have to address that sometime. Waco was a bad deal. But anyway, let's see. We got some.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:42

Is that what most people refer to when they talk about what happened in Waco?

SPEAKER_03 1:26:47

Yeah, the fire on the I can't remember the name of the compound, but they burned um uh it was a bit an offshoot of the Seventh-day Adventist. David Kresh was a cult leader, basically, and you know, he was not a great guy, but they still, you know, killed innocent people because they were mad.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:05

So we will have to look into that.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:07

The FBI and the ATF, I mean.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:09

Bad deal, bad deal.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:11

I hear people talk about that all the time. What happened in Waco? What happened in Waco? I'm like, what happened in Waco? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:21

It was the first story I I remember. I was uh I was very, very young. But I remember catching the nightly news and seeing that compound on fire when I was at my grandparents. Yeah, I remember that. That was quite a yeah, that's my first news story. My first memory of a news story. It's quite quite a deal. But anyway, um and let's see, Mike Wingar, let's let's end on an Andrew Tate note. Uh Andrew Tate thought Islam was attractive because they were willing to kill people for stuff like making a cartoon about Muhammad.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:57

Did you hear Okay? Tate got arrested.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:03

He's already been arrested. They arrested him in Romania. And then they arrested him again in Florida because I think it's on the same. Basically, this is the way I understand that story. I don't think he's done anything new. To my knowledge, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he's actually done anything like new, illegal. It's just the Romanian court chart prosecution failed. So now Britain wants to try. And DeSantis is willing to send the Tates back to Britain. That's the way I understand that news story, which why we would send anyone to Britain, because it's not like Britain, it's not like Britain actually cares on the subject of Islam, mind you. You know, it's not like there's a bunch of gangs attacking women that they won't do anything about. But when the Tates do it, supposedly, oh, now they've got to deal with it. But you know, those those roaming gangs that have been attacking people for years. Oh no. Well that we don't want anybody to be upset on that, you know. We don't want any minorities mad or something. What are you looking up?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:07

Well, yeah, just in the last uh week or so, Andrew Tate and Tristan Tate are behind bars awaiting uh possible extraditation to the UK where they where they're facing new sex charges.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:24

Are they new? Like, did they actually come up with new charges? Or are these just the failed Romanian charges? That's what I would want to know.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:32

Well, this post is from two days ago and it's on uh let's see, oxygen. Do you want me to send you the link?

SPEAKER_04 1:29:41

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:42

I might look into it at some point. Well, let's just say I don't buy it. I'm incredibly dubious. I know that people don't like the Tates, but uh you know what I don't like more? Dictators. And Britain is a tyranny full of dictators, those cops are petty tyrants, and that entire government is like 90% evil. So I'm forgive me if I'm not exactly excited about the Tates going over there.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:09

That's why we threw our uh or their tea in the water.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:13

Yeah, we left once already. Why are we helping them at all? Anyway, sorry, I may have been I I'd hate to generalize my mistake. All right. Do we have any other thoughts on Mike Winger? Because I think we've kind of petered that one out. It sounds like we have.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:31

Uh no, it's just uh I I saw it from uh on Ruslan's channel and uh Ruslan was talking about it because they involved him at one point.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:46

They involved him. What does that mean? They involved him.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:50

Uh Ruslan, so one of them one of whoever was uh talking smack on Mike Winger started going talking smack on Ruslan.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:08

And so Ruslan Are you talking about the Muslims? Are we still talking about the Tates? Okay. I thought I thought one of the Tates had went after Ruslan. I was like, wait, what?

SPEAKER_02 1:31:17

Oh no, okay, no.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:20

Okay, no, so no, so we're back on the Muslims. Okay, they they uh went after Ruslan for defending Mike Winger. Yes. Alright, you're wanting to cover that and then we're done with the subject, right? That was kind of the idea, yeah. Alright, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:34

So the do you have a video on uh yeah, pull up Ruslan's video to go to the most watched part.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:43

It's gonna be the big hump, yeah. Alright, that was about 10 minutes in. Come on there. It's time. I don't wanna AI lady.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:54

I want to play this game. I just want to try it.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:58

Yeah. Alright, well, that was just anyway. We're gonna move on.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:08

Well, apparently, uh, Dr. Malik, who's not a real doctor, said, uh, guys, can I introduce you to another grifter? His name is Rooslan in quotation. No, that's that's really my name. He says, uh, he's a grifter and a half the orthodox expose this clown already. And a half, and a half the orthodox explain this. There's that 20-point lower IQ kicking in right there. I don't, I don't even know what that means. Uh, another guy who grifts off Christianity, we can't debate his religion, clown. And he posted an old article of me from 2019, same storyline. Let me cry and blaspheme, and my life is under threat. Then I'll cash out grift Christians because they the easiest people to wow. This is so bad. You guys should go read this article, by the way. Circumcision save my life of Christian under threat from terrorists. Yeah, this is my uh my testimony. So I don't know. I wonder if this Malik is gonna put it on Pyro, blood. Let me know what you guys think in the comment section. Is he gonna put it on Pyru? Is it I'm I'm I'm a grifter in Pyru. Bad grammar, bad English, IQ showing through. Um, but is he gonna put it on Pyro? That's that's what I want to know. Now, in a moment, we gotta react to Paste Prophet highlighting all this for David Wood. But before we get there, let me just say uh some of you guys know something about my story. We came to the United States as refugees because we're ethnically Armenians who were living in Azerbaijan, which is just north of Iran, and they exiled ethnically cleansed, an actual ethnic cleansing of all the Armenians from Baku in the late 80s, and then they did it again uh in the autonomous region, Noboro-Karabakh region, uh, in 2023. 100,000 Armenians were recently exiled in 2023, and half a million were exiled in uh the late 80s because of the programs of Baku. You guys can go Google this and look up the footage. It was barbaric, it was violent, uh, people lost their lives. And so I've always known that Muslims are hostile. They're aggressive. This is before terrorism, this is before 9-11, this is before any of this stuff was really even talked about in America. I've grown up understanding that this part of the world, particularly because it's ran and influenced by Muslims, has always been more aggressive and they always resort to violence and they always become terrorists when things don't go their way, or they find a scapegoat, which is exactly what happened. That's me and my family came to the United States. So this is very personal to me in a sense, uh, but God used it all for his glory. Romans 8.28, which says, for all things work for good for those who love God and are called according to his purpose. From my vantage point, I don't think this is indicative of all Muslims, but I do think it's indicative of Islam and what the Islamists teach and what then becomes a downstream effect of the Dawa Bros and the jihadis, and then women having to step in and fill in, and then them melting down because Christians want to support their own, and then they start doxing and putting it on Pyru. It's all hilarious to me. And what's also hilarious is AP bringing all this Mike Winger stuff to David Wood's attention in uh their latest live stream.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:12

Anyway, I find it very, very nice that uh Mike Winger is going after Islam. First of all, you know, we don't want to be reacting to reacting to a reacting to a reaction to a reaction to a reaction to a reaction. We've already did that.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:26

We've done that plenty of times. Fantastic. I do love the insult grifter, though. That seems to be like the default insult from people who don't know else to say, Well, you're a grifter. I'm like, Yeah, well, welcome to YouTube. That's like literally everyone. Yeah, it's like everyone's reacting to everyone else, and those that aren't reacting to everyone else are reacting to C on CNN who's reacting to a politician. So you know, there's that.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:50

Some of the biggest names right now on on kids' YouTube channels, mostly, is like all the kids playing Minecraft have learned they get more views if they react to TikToks. So my kids are now watching because I didn't want my kids growing up on short form stuff. Oh yeah, because you had to be. So I told them to get off the short form stuff. And now their favorite like Minecraft players are making videos watching short form.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:26

It's a cancer. It's a cancer.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:30

The worst part is is they're getting more views than than when they were just playing Minecraft.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:37

It is terrifying how many views kid content can get. It's quite scary. Especially when you have a very smart child who's figured out how to record videos and post them online and doesn't tell you. And then you catch her later.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:54

Did your kid do that?

SPEAKER_03 1:36:56

Oh, yes, she did. She did not tell us that she had figured out how to record TikToks. But she was on that scratch program too. So not only was she recording, because we thought she was learning to do the scratch program, she's really little, so we thought, hey, that's very smart of her. So we kind of kept encouraging her to do that. And then somehow she managed to take those scratch cartoons that she was making, merge them with her own recordings, and then upload them to a YouTube channel I didn't even know she had.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:30

Wow. So she she she made a whole email and everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:34

She got through the whole freaking process, and I don't know how she did it. I was not happy. I no, no, you don't need apologies. It's like I thought it's like, what do you do when you're half impressed with your kid, but you also want to punish severely?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:49

So yeah, because you never know who's watching.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:52

Oh, that's what we had. We had to finally sit down and talk to her about it. It's like, look, you cannot be doing that. You know, you don't know who's watching. Yeah. And you know, you've got people commenting on on her stuff, and you don't know who's commenting. It we've had to uh up security, let's say.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:11

So I've been I've been very secure on on my kids. Like I they only are able to watch stuff on my accounts. And so I I see everything they watch and listen to. I see it all.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:28

My kid's smarter than me. You know. That's half the challenge. I'm like, I gotta like stay ahead of her because you know, we figure out we figure out how she's doing one thing, then she she snuck around your well, I don't I don't sneak's a little harsh. I don't think she she just figured out she could do it and did it. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:38:49

So there wasn't no malicious thought about it if she's new.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:52

No, she's too little for that kind of conniving. I'm terrified when she gets old enough for that kind of conniving.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:58

Yeah, my my kids are like, Dad, we could do this and this and this and this to help you make some money. Like we could. We're not going to. We're not going to.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:13

Like they figured out that uh you know, some YouTubers say they do the um like they'll have a little cartoon as their base. Uh yeah. And they'll do that, and both my kids are like, we want to do that. It'll help you make money on your podcasting and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:34

I'm like, but it doesn't work like that. Yeah. Like they can tell you're a little kid. That's kind of the whole problem. It's technology we're getting old, Trevor. We're just getting old, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:52

Speak for yourself. No, you're right. I'm dying.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:56

I'm old and I'm dying. I am decrepit and I am just waiting for my hair to turn gray and all that good stuff. You're not quite there yet. I'm very, very close. Oh, anyway. Moving on to the next subject, shall we?

SPEAKER_02 1:40:12

This is gonna be your favorite one, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:40:15

This is me, I I kind of feel like we have to talk about it because it's just it's on the subject of faith, and it's just something that's been on my head for a while. And I just I don't know exactly how to open this because we were going to do a clip of old Candace Owens saying crap about um I don't know. I I may just rant, and if I run out of stuff to say, we might play the videos. But I'm gonna just rant here because it's just something that's kind of been on my mind, I guess. So So here's the deal. You know, when this whole thing with Charlie Kirk happened, you know, we we watched the funeral afterwards, right? And Erica Kirk went up there and strangely, we've talked a lot about forgiveness tonight. Uh, she went up there and she said she forgave the killer, right? And, you know, I was as a Christian, that's what you're supposed to do. And I was happy to see her do that, and I thought it set a good example. But I also remember thinking, she's gonna pay for that. People are going to hate her for that. They're gonna hate her for saying that. Because that's one of the hardest things to understand about Christianity is why it's so important to forgive. And, you know, Joyce Meyer has a very wonderful statement on this. It's like, you know, at least it's I don't know if she made it up, but I heard it from her. She said, you know, harboring unforgiveness, being staying bitter at people is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Like unforgiveness, anger, bitterness is inherently corrosive. It's one of the reasons the Bible. Yeah, it's one of the reasons the Bible commands us to do it because Christ forgave you for everything you've done and everything you're ever going to do. All your sins are forgiven. You really don't have, like in a certain sense, you have the right, but really fundamentally spiritually, you don't have the right to be angry at people or bitter, let's say, because there's a distinction between anger and bitterness that I don't think has been well communicated in our society. Like there's a difference between being angry in a moment and needing to be angry in order to deal with a problem in a moment. Like you have to have like anger has its purpose.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:59

Yeah, I've been in both boats.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:02

Right. Right. It has its function. And um, you know, God made everything, including anger. But there is a difference between being angry and the need to deal with problems and to get to give in to bitterness and to hold on to that. You deal with the problem, whatever it is, and after the problem's dealt with, it's over. You gotta let that stuff go and you gotta set it to the side. And there's also a distinction between forgiveness, and we talked about this before the show. There is a a difference between like just because you forgive somebody doesn't mean that you don't expect the earthly consequences to happen. You know, like her forgiving Tyler Robinson, she can absolutely 110% forgive Tyler Robinson and then expect him to go to jail for what he's done. That's perfectly in line. You know, you can still be considerate and kind or at least stoic and not be openly disrespectful, not pile on, not remain in anger, not dwell on that stuff over and over again. You can try to have that gracious spirit or at least make the decision that you're going to as soon as you're able, you know, without you know, without you know, expecting him to get off scot-free, as it were. You know, you it it's an it's you could still talk to him in prison or whatever. You can forgive the person and the person can still stay in jail. There's a difference between those things, and it's an attitude thing. It's your heart. And it's one of the most important facets of Christianity. And we are forgiven, we are forgiven for everything we've ever done, and therefore it is incumbent upon us to forgive other people. That's part of being a Christian, and it hinders our spiritual growth when we don't. But people get very, very angry about that. And so when she said I forgive him, I knew she was gonna pay for it. Like I knew she was gonna pay for it, and I knew that that people are not because it's like she went through the most horrible thing you can imagine, losing a spouse. Doesn't get much worse than that. And she forgave the killer, made a public declaration. At the very least, she made a public declaration that she was gonna forgive the killer. Now that makes everybody else's petty squabbles seem pretty trite compared to what she did. Well, that's conviction. That's conviction. People start feeling convicted because they like their anger. Like Dostoevsky makes this point. It's a great point. People love reveling in their anger, they love stewing, they love feeling like a victim, they love marinating in the pain, and they love making the pain a part of their narrative, whatever the grievance is, and some of the grievances are legitimate and some of them aren't. But regardless of whether they are or aren't legitimate, people love staying in the moment.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:08

It's almost like uh an addiction of some sort.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:11

Well, it's like nursing a wound. You know, people can get addicted, if you want to use that term, to nursing a wound and just licking it over and over and over again when they're really just tearing off the scab. You're picking a scab. You know? And so when somebody who's gone through something major does forgive, it's quite convicting. And there's no way that you can dump those kinds of coals on somebody's head without there being a backlash. And so I fully expected to see her re get a backlash of some kind. That wasn't surprising to me. But I've been very, I guess, disgusted with by just how far it's gone. And it's been just upsetting to watch. I mean, it's not like I mean, I've had a bad feeling about Candace Owens for years, well before Charlie Kirk was killed. I I wasn't sure I liked her whenever she first signed on with the Daily Wire, you know. But I never thought she would stoop to this, and I more to the point, never thought anybody would believe her. I mean, I don't know if you followed a lot of the stuff she's been saying of any degree of detail.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:34

No, I hadn't been following her until she got on the Scott and Run Ryan show.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:39

It's been a lot of ridiculous stuff. It's been a lot of ridiculous stuff. She was saying there were planes spying on Charlie Kirk, and then the plane she said was supposedly spying on him wasn't even on the route, and then there was a witness she said was saw everybody in a room together, and that guy's apparently not very well, and you know, wasn't in the right place at the right time. And uh, you know, she's made a lot of very obvious mistakes. It should have destroyed her credibility months ago. And yet, people continue to believe her and believe these other people and refuse to believe that Tyler Robinson is the guy that did it. And this is another thing, it's like very obvious that guy did it because I remember watching Cash Patel's little speech, his stupid Viking speech, where he couldn't abide saying Charlie Kirk is in heaven, so he said Valhalla. You know, because Cash Patel's one of the good guys. So is he? No, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:35

Anyway, um Wait, I thought he was the leader.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:39

He's part of the three stooges where I had that little graphic on here for months on end. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:44

Cash Patel's one of the great yeah, he's is he the FBI leader?

SPEAKER_03 1:48:48

Yeah, he's the head of the FBI. Or yeah, I think he's the head of the FBI.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:52

I thought the FBI were good guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:54

No. Well, I mean, some are, some aren't. You know what I mean? It's just it's like state level, they're probably fine, federal, you'll start getting into issues. That'd be the way I'd divide it.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:05

But have you ever seen The Mentalist?

SPEAKER_03 1:49:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:11

The mentalist paints the picture very well. Half of them are good, half of them are bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:17

Yeah, well, Cash Patel, when he was making the press announcement, I remember watching it and thinking, like, you know, he seemed almost disappointed. You know, not that they were disappointed that they hadn't got him. It was like to me, it was almost like they were mad that the parents had made the kid turn himself in. Yeah. You know, they were upset that they didn't get the the money shot. Which is how these guys think. These guys on the federal level, they're all about the money shot. They're all about that's what started Waco, as a matter of fact. They wanted a photo wop where they were carrying out all these endangered kids from a crazy cult because they were trying to make up this is the theory, anyway. They were trying to make up. Up for the debacle at Ruby Ridge. And so they wanted some good press. So they contrived this case against these cultists in Waco. And then that blew up. And then ironically, they killed a bunch of women and kids. So, but that's kind of how these federal guys think is they they want the credit. So I never had any doubt that Tyler Robinson was guilty because the FBI seemed absolutely disappointed by the fact. So, you know, and of course the evidence is apparently. I mean, I've been watching Nick Ricada and different guys running through the trial. I mean, it seems pretty open and shut to me that the guy's guilty. But I feel like this hatred towards Erica and this desire to find another culprit is rooted. I mean, I it's it might be crazy. Certainly will probably seem crazy, but I honestly think it goes back to that speech because they cannot let her, like society itself, cannot let her be the good guy after she says something like that. Now, as for all of her strange behavior, if even if there is strange behavior, I I hear in passing that there's strange behavior, but other than a dress that was too sparkly, I haven't seen anything. But again, that kind of micromanaging of attitude, again, seems indicative of this person seems too good. We have to destroy her.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:27

Like um, she went to work what was it a week after it happened? So she was back at work.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:38

Why is that bad? She wants to keep her husband's company going and she's got to stay busy, otherwise, she's gonna go nuts because her husband died. Why is that bad? No, it's just one of the arguments. I know, and it's a stupid argument. All the arguments are stupid. That's kind of I'm I'm you're unfortunately you're the avatar for the opposition, Trevor, so I apologize.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:55

Oh, okay. So I'm defending Camusones?

SPEAKER_03 1:51:59

I don't know what you're doing. I'm just gonna be yelling at you even though you don't deserve it.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:03

So or I might be. I apologize if I do. You don't know what I deserve. Maybe I do deserve to be yelled at.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:11

Oh, stop it. Anyway, so this is again, I don't know why I'm going back to Dostoevsky, but this is Dostoevsky. They like people are obsessed with watching good men fall. It's one of the themes in his writing. And that's what I think is going on with Erica Kirk. I think these people are obsessed with what uh with destroying this person, micromanaging the fact that she like, why would she go back to work so soon? Doesn't she care? It's like, have you not seen a daughter of a dead parent getting ready for a funeral? Have you not seen people obsess and become like as busy as they can possibly be so they don't have to think about the grief? Have you never seen that before? People do stuff like that all the time. That's not odd. Like, there are people who will intentionally stay busy to avoid pain. Why is that shocking? The fireworks and the freaking display that they did during the funeral, trying to pretend like everything's okay and trying not to act like this was a major defeat. Why is that shocking? You may not like it, but why is it shocking? Her hugging one of the one of Charlie Kirk's friends. And it was too intimate of a hug or whatever. It's like, yeah, I don't know, maybe because uh her husband died and he's trying to console her and she's needing to be consoled. Why is that shocking? It's like all this crap, this micromanaging of somebody's behavior. Like, you don't know what's in her heart any more than I do. But this micromanaging of the behavior, I don't think it's motivated by her actually doing anything in particular. It's she forgave him. She actually did, even if it wasn't sincere and it was for the photo wop, that still dumps coals on people's heads. And I don't think they can take it. And I think this is more about destroying a symbol and destroying somebody who tried to be the good guy because, well, people want to stay mad at their parents for whatever stupid slight they may or may not have done. But as Christians, forgiveness is everything. Like, you know, if you don't forgive, you destroy yourself for one thing. Like, forgiveness will drive you, unforgiveness will drive you nuts. It'll drive you nuts. You you can get all the all the freaking mental diseases from the DSM. A lot of that comes from unresolved issues when you're a kid, and a lot of those unresolved issues are rooted in unforgiveness. This is why Joyce Meyer, like, have you heard the story of Joyce Meyer?

SPEAKER_02 1:54:43

Which one?

SPEAKER_03 1:54:45

The one where she her relationship with her dad. No, I haven't heard that one. Well, she was she was attacked by her dad when she was a kid, and she had to forgive him, and she talks about that process a lot, which is another one of the reasons why I absolutely cannot stand people calling her a prosperity preacher. But again, I would argue a lot of that has has to do with them getting angry about that message, too. Because that message, like, people who don't do that very often end up not well. It's incredibly important to forgive. From a Christian perspective, number one, you've been forgiven for everything. So what right do you have to sit there and hard hold hold a grudge? Christ is gonna let you in through the door no matter what you do, no matter how idiotic you are. So, what possible right do you have to hold anything over anybody? You know? We don't. Yeah, that's that's part of the point. You've been forgiven, so forgive. And I mean, obviously, that's not easy when somebody slights you. I mean, I I get it, but that doesn't mean that just because we have a hard time with it, we should go out of our way to destroy other people who may have pulled it off, just so we can believe that other people can't do it either because we feel bad. That's all I had to say. I needed to get that off my chest. I think this whole thing of Candace Owens is just motivated by what she said during that funeral. I think it set people off, and people have been like, we can't have that. We can't trust her. And Eric Metaxis made this point. He compared her to um, I don't remember the woman's name, but um there's a book, End of the Spear, and uh I think the son wrote it, but the mom basically there was a man who was killed by uh some natives in Ecuador years ago, and um the mom went down there, forgave the murderers, and continued the mission work. And uh there was a movie made based off the book, it's a very good book, and the movie's actually very good as well. Like, I I tend to despise Christian films with a bloody passion, but that one's actually quite good, the Christian movie into the sphere, into the spear. So I would actually recommend it if you can find it. But uh, you know, it's not a popular message to forgive. But anyway, um, whether that comparison is like or not, the point is, as a Christian, like the chief virtue is forgiveness. And Christians, I guess that's the thing, is it's not like like I would expect this stuff from the political opposition, you know, because like just grasping at straws and throwing mud is kind of what they do. I mean, they've never done anything else. But to see our own side divide over this, it's been sickening. And it's because I I honestly think it's because people hate forgiveness. And of course, it's no surprise to me that the second she says that, then all of a sudden her dress is in question. And well, how sad is she really? Because what's the subtext there? The subtext is well, she forgave the guy, so she can't be that upset. What kind of crazy person does that? So the narrative is she's not really that sad, her husband's dead. And that all goes back to what she said during that speech. I'm convinced of it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm convinced of it. And I think it's pretty sick. And I've been very sickened by a good chunk of the conservative movement of late. So I just wanted to get that off my chest. That's all I wanted. So you got any thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 1:58:32

That's kind of why a lot of people leave churches too. Like the gossip is the main thing. Like, that's why I stopped going to one of the church I grew up in was the gossip. I would go to the church and I would hear more things about what uh the community was doing wrong than about God.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:03

You think that gossip was motivated by unforgiveness? Is that your general thought?

SPEAKER_02 1:59:10

One more time, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:12

You think the gossip was motivated by unforgiveness? That's like your impression?

SPEAKER_02 1:59:17

Oh yeah. It'd be like he said, she said, and then it would blow up, and the whole church would know about it, and then you you would have the church divide in half, and that's how you would get twelve different churches in one little city that had four thousand people in it. All of them Baptists.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:52

Twelve Baptist churches for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:56

In a in a radius of like ten miles.

SPEAKER_06 2:00:01

That's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:02

Yeah. That's a lot. Going I would go to the different ones.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:09

Jump around. And they would get on to me for doing that because it says in the Bible you're not supposed to jump around. It doesn't say it doesn't say. They would throw Bible verses at me. I'm like, uh, okay, well, my friend is going to this church, and my other friend is going to this church. So I would go with this friend one way to this one, and then I would hear all the gossip I could from just sitting, just hanging out with them.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:46

And it's just it says you should go to church. It doesn't say you need to you absolutely need to have a membership or else or whatever. That I mean, I do recommend that you plant somewhere. I'm not saying you shouldn't, I'm just saying there isn't a Bible verse that they should that they could have quoted at you. But anyway, that's not. Here's my thing. If somebody thinks I'm actually wrong and that I'm misinterpreting what's going on with Erica Kirk, or I've got a bad perception of what forgiveness even is, I want to hear somebody else's take on it. Because this is what this really ticks me off. Like this ticks me off a lot. And I've just watched this whole charade in horror. It's just, it's just been disgusting because I just I remember having that thought clearly, but I don't think even I expected it to be as bad as it's gotten. It's really disgusting, and I'm like ashamed of our movement, and like I like I don't yeah. I don't I don't know what else to say. Like I'm just disappointed and ashamed and disgusted, and I cannot believe we have sunk this low.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:08

That's why a lot of people that when they they ask you, are you a Christian? A lot of people that are in the same boat as you are. They they're like, I'm just follower of Jesus. They don't come back immediately and say, Yes, I'm a Christian. They just say, I'm just a follower of Jesus. Because they're ashamed of being associated with Christianity.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:40

Yeah, they're ashamed of that church culture. Yeah. Well, you know, what about the conservative culture? Like these guys are always screaming about Judeo-Christian values. Well, I'm sorry whether you think she was sincere or not, forgiving somebody in a situation like that is a Judeo-Christian value. Do you agree with that or not? Do you agree that forgiveness is a Judeo-Christian value or not? Do you think that a mother, a wife who's been put in that situation? Like it's obviously understandable if they don't, but should they is the ideal that they forgive the murderer? Do you think that that's really gonna help her and keep her from being adopting an attitude that's corrosive? Do you think that's going to help her or not? Do you believe that God, I mean, he says very clearly, if you don't forgive, you won't be forgiven. Now, I don't think that's in the salvific sense, but that's in certainly that that's certainly in some kind of sense, even if it's just like experiencing his wrath in this life, whatever it means, God is willing to like withhold some kind of forgiveness from you if you don't forgive other people. Do you believe that or not? No. Do people actually believe in forgiveness in this country or not? And for all this preaching about Judeo-Christian values, I don't think a lot of them mean it. Because when you stop, even if you have to, like, in the name of stroking your petulant ego, have to convince yourself that she faked it, like, are you still gonna sit there and like tear her down because you can't abide the very idea that it might be possible that somebody could do that? I've not been impressed with our side, Trevor.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:36

There is no side. There's only God.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:39

Well, I understand the Democrats acting that way because, you know, they reject God as part of their policy. But, you know, all these other guys on the right, they claim that they're following Christ. They claim that they're following Judeo-Christian religions. Well, that's one of the principles. Do you believe it or not?

SPEAKER_02 2:05:01

I believe.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:02

Well, I'm probably talking in a circle at this point, so we should probably wrap up tonight. Do you have any final thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 2:05:08

Um, unless you want to hear one more time, Joker.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:11

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:14

Come on, phone. I lost the one I had pulled up.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:34

Oh, please, you don't have to look up another one for my sake. You certainly don't have to do that at all.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:40

Okay, here's a Star Wars one.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:42

Alright.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:43

What is the internal temperature of a uh Tauntaun?

SPEAKER_03 2:05:50

I don't know. What?

SPEAKER_02 2:05:52

Luke warm.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:56

Alright, I'm gonna.

SPEAKER_04 2:06:02

Alright, guys, where are that one didn't get you at all?

SPEAKER_03 2:06:05

No, not even a little bit. Nothing. Just dead inside. I thought you would love that one. Oh, I'm sorry. Well, I still have s flashbacks of the sequel trilogy running through my mind. I'm doing a review series on the sequel trilogy on Mind Matters, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:20

I'm not sure what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:22

It's depressing. It's depressing. Okay, like just to give you an idea of how bad it is, like a normal review for a bad sci-fi movie, like the most I've ever done is like um I think 13. And that was uh AI artificial intelligence. That was the longest review series ever did. This one, I'm on review six or six or seven, and I'm like not even 20 minutes into the movie. Wow, it's insane. Like this movie is terrible, and you don't realize how terrible it is until you slow it down, and you're just like, holy crap, it's so bad.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:02

Which one are you talking about?

SPEAKER_03 2:07:03

Oh, the Force Awakens. I haven't even got to The Last Jedi yet, and that's like the worst one. Uh, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:11

Speaking of Star Wars, uh yeah. What what are your thoughts on uh Jar Jar being the ultimate bad guy?

SPEAKER_03 2:07:20

It would still be it would still be better than the sequel trilogy. So anything would be better than the sequel trilogy.

SPEAKER_02 2:07:29

That's that's my thoughts on it. Uh Lucas, George Lucas was gonna make Jar Jar the ultimate bad guy. Well, he got so much backlash from the actor being a Yeah, I've heard that.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:45

I have heard that.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:47

So alright. Well, we need to get off of here, man. So guys, we're gonna wrap it up for the evening. Thank you so much for watching, and we will see you next time. Thank you. Bye-bye.