Would you drink Round up weed killer?

Is there a hidden ingredient in your pint?
In this episode of Business & a Brew, we dive into the surprising story behind glyphosate – the active ingredient in Roundup weed killer – and its journey from farm fields to your beer glass.

We unpack how a herbicide developed by Monsanto and now owned by Bayer became one of the most widely used chemicals on the planet, and why World Health Organization has classified glyphosate as a probable human carcinogen, what that actually means in real terms, and why regulators like the US EPA and the European Food Safety Authority don’t all agree. We get into how glyphosate ends up in everyday products like barley, beer and wine, often at trace levels, and the implications of a major US Supreme Court case that could reshape how chemical companies are held accountable for harm. Along the way, there’s a personal story from Si’s allotment days, including what “I’ll nuke it” really meant, a breakdown of the multi billion dollar lawsuits facing Bayer, and an honest chat about what consumers can realistically take from all of this, including whether it would actually stop anyone ordering a pint.

We also touch on the wider context, including the fact that glyphosate has been found in many popular beer brands, typically at levels well below legal limits, and why “probable carcinogen” doesn’t mean a pint is going to give you cancer but does raise important questions about long term exposure. We explore how regulators and researchers often approach risk differently, asking whether something can cause harm versus whether it does under real world conditions, which is why conclusions can conflict. The conversation rounds out with what this means for the future, from the potential impact of ongoing legal cases to the growing importance of transparency in brewing, sourcing and farming practices as part of building trust with consumers.

If you haven't listened to our Monsanto/Bayer episodes - heres the quick link to Part 1 and Part 2 

About Simon and Danielle:

Simon and Danielle are both business owners, based in the East Midlands, who met through mutual business contacts and who share a love of all things business. 

Simon runs Skylight Media – Award-winning experts in Website Design, E-commerce & Marketing running since 2003.

Danielle runs Goldspun Support – a multi-faceted support service for fractional directors and small business owners across the globe, running since 2009.

Since they first met Simon and Danielle have spent a ridiculous amount of time talking about the subjects that interest them – usually over a drink in the pub – and they decided that now was the time to bring these conversations to a wider audience and invite them to join the chat. 

Both Simon and Danielle are successful business owners in their own rights with big plans for the future but will never lose their love of talking all things business… and the pub.

Transcript

Hi, I'm Danny
and I'm Si. Welcome to Business in the brew, a podcast dedicated to all things business, with the occasional cover.
You take a business story theory or something. We just want to chat about special personality and sense of humor combined with our experience and knowledge. We're both business graduates and have run our own businesses for many years. We can't wait to listen. Thank you. Last week, question, and I'm confident this is not going to go in the
direction,
okay, we wanted to go in, so I'll give it a go anyway. What is the one question you ask at a craft beer festival? This is going somewhere, by the way.
What are its characteristics?
Yeah, that's not what I needed you to say. What I need you to say is this,
let me
put my
glasses. What's actually in the water that grew the barley that made my pint?
Oh, it's so interesting. You should ask that question, because not many people do. So. Obviously, no ever says that a craft beer festival.
That's a swear. We don't normally
swear all the time.
They have
to have explicit warnings on every single
episode,
because if the answer was actually the same as it is for most of the barley grown in the UK, the US and across the world, the answer includes a word I can't pronounce, glyphosate,
oh, glyphosate, yeah.
Glyphosate, the active ingredient in round up weed killer, you know, stuff you put your point.
Yeah,
you're not suggesting that same beer, are you?
Yes, I am suggesting that's in beer, probably not craft beer, to be fair, because of the small batch production and the way they do it.
But, but as a, as a, what's it called as a as a trace amount that passes
so it is the most widely used herbicide on Earth, and has been classified as a probable human carcinogen. So I double checked the meaning of probable human carcinogen, which is, there is strong evidence it can cause cancer, but studies are not yet conclusive.
I did see
enough to put me off. Put it
that way. Hang on. Was the news. Are you coming to the news issued last week, right? Okay, so this is very much a current story, yeah.
So it was the World Health Organization, the WHO that classified it as a probable human carcinogen, which is worrying in itself. It's been found in 95% of popular beer brands tested in independent studies, and it is currently at the center of the US Supreme Court case, which is the one you just mentioned that could reshape how chemical companies are held accountable
for harm,
with the oral arguments having been heard on April the 27th 2006 so literally, I think that is April 27 when we're recording this. I don't know what the date is
today, 2006
oh, no, last year. No, hang on, I'm confused. Anyway, I meant mid 2007 I've confused myself. Oh, 2006 that's this year. What year are we in?
No, we're actually 20 years post 2006
2026
I can read. Been a long day already.
April, 27
2026 which is actually today, the day we're recording this. We're there now, and a decision is expected by the end of June.
Well, shouldn't we have recorded this after that?
No, don't be rude. I've already written it. It's too late. Well, we'll just do, I'll do like a little this is just Danielle coming back to tell you about the oral findings.
Tack it on to another.
We'll tack it. It'll be fine. White, blue tech, right? And most of the people drinking a pint have no idea this is happening, which is not surprising, because otherwise there probably wouldn't be, except those people that drink like Carling because they don't get a task.
Can you say that?
Probably I don't drink it. Gly, I can't say it again. Gly, sophate, no.
Glyphosate,
glyphosate. Just keep correcting me. Glyphosate was developed by Monsanto.
Monsanto,
I can't say any of my words today. I hope you. Thank you. And launched his roundup in 1974 and we've done an episode on Monsanto,
yes. We have,
which later became beta
Yes,
yes,
or
was bought by Yeah. So it works by blocking a specific enzyme pathway on plants that humans and animals don't have. So regulators initially considered it relatively safe because it's not something we have in ourselves. So it became truly ubiquitous in the 1990s when Monsanto introduced
only the 1990s right,
when Monsanto introduced Roundup Ready crops, so they literally genetically engineered to be resistant to it, meaning farmers could spray the entire field and kill everything except
the crop.
Genius, really,
it is. It's clever. There's no doubt,
unless you think about the chemical element
to it. Now, just a quick, a quick story about about glyphosate. I had a brief stint at sharing an allotment just to see what it was like
to
give it like your test drive over one summer. Was
that. When you were in your 50s?
No,
no,
I was, I was in my 30s. Anyway,
yeah,
anyway,
yeah.
I said, you've got an awful lot of weeds on this allotment. What we're going to do. And he said, It's all right, I'll nuke it. Wow. So spraying glyphosate on it was basically
lovely. Sounds really tasty,
yeah,
but
that was before you planted anything. Basically
Fair enough. Okay, so because of that genetically engineered crop, it drove an explosion in usage today, around 280 million pounds of Gly sophate. Why
can't
I say it are sprayed annually on 298 million acres of us, farmland alone, an area roughly the size of three California's
Wow.
In the UK, the same thing. I can't say Gly sophate is sprayed on five fo say, fosate, glyphosate is sprayed on 5.4 million acres of land every
year.
This is
just an episode of You correcting how I pronounce
things. Great fun.
Thank you. Then in 2015 everything changed, because the IRAC working great group classified the thing I can't say as probably carcinogenic to humans, as we said
earlier,
based on limited evidence of cancer in humans, sufficient evidence in experimental animals, further supported by strong evidence for Geno toxicity. And the lawsuits that followed have cost Bayer, which is the company that acquired Monsanto in 2018 dearly. There have been 24 roundup trials so far, with over eight over $8 billion awarded to victims, and the company has settled around 100,000 claims for approximately $11 billion
right? And this is still being produced or alternatives to it?
Well, one hopes they're doing both at the same time. So the most important thing to get right is that the IRAC working group that has classified this doesn't assess risk, it assesses hazard. So a probable carcinogen means that there is evidence that substance can cause cancer under some conditions, not that a pint of beer will give you cancer. So it's not a scare tactic. It is a genuine finding for context, the same group, which is group two, a category includes red meat emissions from high temperature frying and the occupational exposure of being a barber.
I'm
assuming it's inhaling the hair.
Is
that what they do you
would do in your shaving? Wouldn't you stiffing your hair as they should. Don't know
where the heck did that come from?
I'm
sharing some context with you,
because the barber doesn't cut hair until it's occupation exposure of
being a barber. I'm literally reading it word for word. I don't know. I'll look more into it for you. If that helps. We'll do another episode on the occupational dangers of being a barber. I'm kidding, that's not a whole episode group one. So definite carcinogens include tobacco, asbestos and processed meat, some of which are still sold today. So
processed meat. So how's it getting processed
meat?
No, no, it's that's not in processed meat. Processed meat is a definite castle. So I'm finding other things that there is no gliss anyway,
I was fixated on the barbers.
No,
you're
just confused. So it's not even though it's not definite,
yeah,
it's not nothing.
There's probable
you don't get that label unless there is, yeah, absolutely. The human studies are, in the words of one of senior toxic toxicologist, messy and researchers have come to genuinely different conclusions from the same data. Regulatory author agencies, including the US EPA and the European Food Safety Authority have concluded that glyphosate
is
unlikely to cause cancer at realistic exposure levels. So the exposure levels we're exposed
to, sorry,
the US EPA and the European Food Safety Authority, I don't know if I trust either those bodies, the IRAC says probably carcinogenic, and both are looking at overlapping evidence and reaching different conclusions, partly because they're asking different questions. The i, R, A, C asks, can it cause cancer? With regulators ask, does it cause cancer?
Absolutely,
at the levels you're exposed to. And they are different questions with very different
answers. My goodness, are you supposed to work that out as a consumer?
Well, I don't know. And it's so widely used on UK farms, the glyphosate it has been found in beer, including major brands, a USP, IRG study found it in 19 out of 20 beers and wines tested.
This is this is trace elements? Yes, yeah,
the main sources in beer are water, malt and hops, but the malting and brewing process removes much of it, so only around 2% of. Glyphosate originally found in raw barley, ends up in the finished beer, and reported levels in European beer have typically been about 100 times below legal maximum residue limits. So yeah, it's detectable, but it's not
so
I suppose it all comes down to how much you actually drink.
It's a bit like spraying your garden weaker
than accident licking your finger. Do not mean it's
like the actual truth is no one really knows.
No those, those, those triggers, the little bottles they contain a little picture of a dead fish and like a pond with no water in it and a dead tree, basically showing that,
don't throw your pondy tree.
Drink this.
Don't
spray it near anything that you want to live animal. Yeah,
it is a toxic chemical. It's supposed to be because it kills.
Yeah,
stuff,
yeah.
There have been some studies. There was a landmark study used to defend the safety of it, but it was retracted by the Journal of regulatory toxicology and pharmacology. Fascinating read, 25 years after publication, because actually, monsoon Monsanto was included in its preparation. It wasn't exactly an unbiased report. Yeah, it was written with their help, but without disclosing their support and writing it
Okay, I'd love to see the redacted elements.
I imagine it was just a load of black lines. So the Supreme Court case, which is happening right now, the court of the case before the Supreme Court is that under the Federal Insecticide, this is gonna be hard to say, the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide and rodent aside act. That's the thing. The aside act, it cannot be held liable for failing to warn of a cancer risk if the APA has not, EPA has not found such a risk and does not require a warning. In other words, if the government says your product is safe, can a jury in a state court say it isn't and make you pay for it? That is essentially the debate. So we have the oral arguments decision expected by the end of June. If Monsanto wins, bail wins, it could effectively shut down the remaining 10s of 1000s of lawsuits, but if it loses their liability, exposure will just continue, and the $7.25 billion settlement proposal is currently on the table, looks pretty likely if that's the case,
wow,
yeah, there's
a lot of stake there.
There's a lot at stake, but
there's also a lot of steak for further corporate,
oh, 100%
blame for a whole pile a slew of other chemical, chemical items that are produced. Yeah, if
you're saying you've got this, this tiny, little, tiny trace of it in there, I'd be interested to know what other traces of other things are in your beer as well, and where do they come from?
You
know, has it got
like, how harmful they are,
the mud off a gnat's feet, where it's still in your plant? Aware?
Yeah, yeah, there's, there's a, there's an amazing story about a chemical, but it's actually for, I think it's another weed killer. I think it might be another weed killer. I think I have to do some digging on that, because, actually, it's a fascinating story. People, people end ended up in the factory, ingesting it in their sandwiches, breathing it in and all sorts, and it polluted an entire river. And that mean that's completely the other end of it, you know. So when you've got people production of that, that chemical, that compound, well, how clean is the environment around the production facility? You know, what, what? What else has been,
yeah, what else you pick it
up, build around it,
yeah. It is really interesting. And it's, I mean, obviously the glyphosate, yes, isn't just in the weed killer. They also in UK barley farming. Use it as a pre harvest desiccant, so to dry out the crop before you harvest it. So it's one of them. It's the one of the main routes for getting it into the barley. But it's
a practice
the Brewers Association explicitly says it opposes. Doesn't mean people aren't doing it, but it explicitly says it opposes it.
Bezel, where you get your barley from, us
both. Well, an organic barley is not treated with any of those chemicals, but organic certification doesn't guarantee zero residue. Because of the spray drift from neighboring fields, there is no way, unless you're growing it in a greenhouse, maybe that you're going to be completely free. The most honest thing a brewer can say is, we saw some malt carefully. We test while we can the residue levels in Finnish beer are currently well within legal limits. Whether those limits are set at the right level, that's a really different question entirely. So yeah, do you would that put you off a pint of beer? No, of course, it wouldn't. What would it take to put you off a pint of beer?
I've ever the spoonful of it in every pint of beer. Stop, yeah,
yeah. But it's just so if
it's in beer, it's got to be on grapes, isn't it? You know, grapes,
cows eat
them,
eat
the grass. That
is true.
Mind you, that's we're not going to deep dive into that. But, but, yeah, any crop,
yes, in theory, but even a crop that's organically grown, that's in a neighboring field,
or someone that's
drift, yeah, yeah,
you're absolutely ruined. But then equally, I don't know, let's say I spray my driveway around up to get rid of the weeds, and then I walk back through my house and it's all over my carpet that my cats are on or whatever? Does that cause a problem? Should we worry about this probable cause?
And the thing is, because it is a it's a compound that, where am I searching for? It's cumulative, isn't
it? Yes,
so the body, yeah, it builds up. Yeah, it builds up.
Yeah, it's got nowhere
to
go. Does it ever come out of the body once it's in there? Is like a forever chemical. I
believe it's a forever chemical, but I haven't looked into it in any
detail. But
this is literally, this the court hearing at the moment,
is one
of the most consequential product liability decisions in years. It could make a massive impact.
And
that's just the US, right? Yeah,
there's
still all the other countries in the world.
So this inquiry that's going on is going to be something to watch next few weeks, months and probably years. Yeah,
I mean,
because depends what the decision if the decisions actually no, they're fine to keep using it, then it will go quiet. But if the decision is they're found to be liable, that was going to drag on for a long time, because we know that settlements do not come quick.
Yeah, it's, wasn't there a link with non Hodgkin's lymphoma, well
as a type of cancer?
Yeah? Yeah, it is a type of cancer. But no, it was specifically picked out. I'm Yeah, it's horrific. But now
you know, next time you go to a craft beer festival, the first question you need to ask is, what's on my pint of beer,
yeah, and then what strength is its test taste characteristic?
So yeah, enjoy your next beer festival. No problem at all.
Thanks for supporting us by downloading and listening to this episode,
and a massive thank you also to Dawn II, Emily, Nat and Lewis and the BTD studios for all your expertise in bringing our podcasting dream to reality.
We'd love it if you commented on this episode, as we'd really like to know what you think and what you might like us to cover in future episodes, and
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