On the Blue Ridge
On the Blue Ridge features conversations with people shaping the Blue Ridge Mountains. Hosted by Asheville-based journalist Jon Page, the show explores the ideas, creativity, and vision driving Western North Carolina forward.
Through long-form interviews and on-location storytelling, each episode captures the evolving story of these mountains. The conversations focus on people doing meaningful and inspiring work across the region, from conservation and outdoor recreation to the arts, agriculture, food and beverage, entrepreneurship, and beyond.
On the Blue Ridge
Filmmaker Paul Bonesteel on the Life and Legacy of George Masa
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Paul Bonesteel is a documentary filmmaker and writer whose latest film explores the life and legacy of George Masa, a Japanese immigrant photographer whose work was instrumental in the establishment of Great Smoky Mountains National Park and the development of the Appalachian Trail.
Based in Asheville, North Carolina, Paul is an Emmy Award-winning documentary filmmaker whose work explores history, landscape, and the people whose lives quietly shape how we understand both. He has completed more than a dozen feature-length documentaries, with the latest focusing on a subject that has held Paul’s attention for more than two decades.
“A Life Reimagined: The George Masa Story” examines the mysteries behind a man whose images helped shape early conservation efforts and the national parks movement in the United States. It begins streaming on PBS on May 1.
The film builds on Paul’s earlier work, including his 2003 documentary “The Mystery of George Masa” and the book “George Masa: A Life Reimagined,” which he co-authored with Janet McCue. Together, these projects trace a decades-long effort to better understand a man whose story was, for many years, only partially known.
In this episode, Paul discusses the impact of Masa’s photographs; what it took to uncover the missing pieces of Masa’s life story; how a decades-long pursuit evolved from a single documentary into a book and a new film; and what continues to drive his passion for telling stories rooted in place and history.
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To me, as a researcher, writer, filmmaker, I mean, that's the stuff that you just you hope to be able to come to these conclusions or these reveals that uh give you more insight into someone. You know, hopefully that also inspire others to know his story and see power and possibility in their own lives.
SPEAKER_01Today, on the Blue Ridge, our guest is Paul Bonesteel, a documentary filmmaker and writer whose latest film explores the life and legacy of George Masa, a Japanese immigrant photographer whose work was instrumental in the establishment of Great Smoky Mountains National Park and the development of the Appalachian Trail. I'm your host, John Page. Let's begin. Based in Asheville, North Carolina, Paul is an Emmy Award-winning documentary filmmaker whose work explores history, landscape, and the people whose lives quietly shape how we understand both. He has completed more than a dozen feature-length documentaries, with the latest focusing on a subject that has held Paul's attention for more than two decades. A Life Reimagined, the George Massa story, examines the mysteries behind a man whose images helped shape early conservation efforts and the national parks movement in the United States. It begins streaming on PBS on May 1st with a North Carolina broadcast premiere set for May 12th. The film builds on Paul's earlier work, including his 2003 documentary, The Mystery of George Massa, and the book George Massa, A Life Reimagined, which he co-authored with Janet McHugh. Together, these projects trace a decades-long effort to better understand a man whose story was, for many years, only partially known. Through newly uncovered letters, genealogical research, and archival materials, Paul and his collaborators have helped piece together that missing history, tracing Moss's journey from Japan to the Pacific Northwest, and ultimately to Western North Carolina in 1915. In this episode, Paul discusses the impact of Moss's photographs, what it took to uncover the missing pieces of Moss's life story, how a decades-long pursuit evolved from a single documentary into a book and a new film, and what continues to drive his passion for telling stories rooted in place and history. This conversation was recorded in late April at Hatch Coworking in Asheville. And we start with a simple question. How to pronounce George's last name? It's Masa, right? You say Masa, but I've heard Masa.
SPEAKER_00Um some people say Masa, uh and some people who have been studying him a long time say masa. I I say Masa because it's closer to Masaharu, which we know was a chosen name of his. Whether it was a birth name is not conclusively determined. Uh but Masaharu is pronounced Masaharu. You know, Masa. So I say Masa. Masa, uh Masa and Masa, people do go both ways, but um uh uh I that's the reason why I say Masa. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So we're we're nearly a century past his death. Uh there's been multiple documentaries now, multiple books written about him. There's a foundation. Uh do you feel like a century later that Massa is finally starting to get the the credit uh and recognition that he deserves?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, I I think the answer is yes to that. Um but as I have found over the last not just you know few years since the book came out, but over the last since the first film came out, I mean I I'm still running into people everywhere who's like, I have never heard of George Masso. Why haven't I heard of him? You know, and so that's uh uh really been motivating. You you have to retell these important stories, in my opinion. And you know, uh uh so uh not just retell, this this goes beyond retelling, um in you know, in terms of the the book and and the stuff we'll we'll talk more about. But um uh it's exciting that he he does um have a lot more recognition than than he than he did. There have been peaks through the years and again on different scale. In Asheville, you could say it's been a periodic sort of appreciation. Back when it was just kind of newspaper media, he he would make appearances throughout the 20th century. Uh but again, there was only limited information. There was sort of more um mythology around George Massa than there was fact. It was it was good mythology, it was it was inspiring mythology, but now it's more grounded in uh an abundance of of photographs that you can look at in various places, archives, online, and more facts fac factual information in his story.
SPEAKER_01I and I realize I should have also mentioned there's a historical marker down in downtown Asheville, too. So uh yeah, just m more things to add to it. But what when you do uh meet someone that that doesn't know Massa, uh and let's say it's in an elevator, like what's the really quick pitch on on who he was and why he matters and why people in this area should be grateful for what he did?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, what I say is that George Massa arrived in 1915 to Asheville and then for the next 18 years took powerful photographs of both Asheville and the region that had impact um on the conservation movement, on the outdoor movement, on the the preservation of of sort of what Asheville both looked like and you know kind of felt like during that time period. It was a uh uh a very important sort of time capsule in a sense uh of of a very important chapter, not only in in the Asheville and regional area, but in the evolution of kind of the conservation movement nationally. National parks were spreading. So then the elevator door opens, and people are like, that sounds good, Paul. Thanks a lot. I'll see you later. Um uh but I I I usually say something like Um, you know, uh this guy from Japan that no one really you know ever understood exactly why he was here, um uh did this amazing work in the region, and um you you should see his photos. And you know, I he he he has an intriguing story, and for years we no one knew you know the truth about kind of who he really was.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and we'll get into the mystery a little later, but for the the the photograph angle of it, um what what made his photos so powerful in uh at the time and then also looking at them, you know, today a a century later?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's a lot that we could talk about why, but one of the main things is that he he legitimately went to places that very few people had been to with a camera and brought these images back to to the city in the Asheville and and then used them in a way that was was powerful. You know, people knew about the great smokeys. There's no hiding them from anyone, but getting uh deep in there and on top of them, and not just the smokies, of course, but a lot of the uh the areas uh that he explored and and and hiked um were not well people didn't really know what was at the end of the trail. Why climb that mountain? Where do you what are you gonna see? There was uh certainly a trendiness to to getting out in the outdoors at that time. Um blue collar to s to to social lights were were hitting the trail and joining clubs. And so there was a the um and then there was always the mystique of the sort of pioneer mindset. And by getting in there with a camera and taking photographs uh that showed what you what you see in this you know rumored and hopeful national park, uh all that contributed to kind of both again the mythology of the of the region, but also the practicality of like, you know, what what will tourists see? Where will you what will you do there? Will you fish, will you hike, will you hunt, will you, you know, like what is it all about? So his photos captured that, but that's doing him a disservice in how much more he photographed in and around the region for hire at times and for his own entrepreneurial sort of spirit to to create postcards, to work as a staff photographer for the the Chamber of Commerce, uh, both newspapers. He was he was uh a reliable source for them. And you know, he he was hustling. So his photos show all of that. And it's not unusual uh because he was he came here with the intention, or at least qu soon thereafter, that he he wanted to make some money, he wanted to prove to himself and in a sense these others, I'm using air quotes, that in his past that that he that he could reinvent himself. And and he indeed did that.
SPEAKER_01The the taking of these photographs, uh I feel like it's it's worth mentioning too that we're we're you know, we're not talking about a camera that fits in your pocket like we have nowadays. You know, he's hiking on these long trails with a giant tripod, and I don't know what the kind of camera is, but can you talk a little bit uh about that, like the the the realities of trying to do that? Have you ever tried to to take photos with one of those cameras?
SPEAKER_00Well, fortunately, in the mystery of George Massa, the film we made back in 2002, came out in 2003, uh a local photographer here, uh Ben Porter, we we had possession of one of Massa's cameras, which is over at Western Carolina Archive now, um, and we took it up to Craggy uh and and used it. And and so I uh we go we went through that experience, and I got I went through that experience into the dark room with him, and that was um uh these are not um small or simple tools. Um but what was interesting that Massa was using there were smaller cameras at the time, but not nearly as good. You know, the the cameras had had evolved a little bit, but the professionals, the people who really cared about high quality imagery, used these either 5x7 or 8x10 uh uh uh cameras that had literally negatives that large. You know, think of a 35 millimeter for for some audience members. You maybe you're experimenting with this kind of quote, old school photography now with with film versus digital. And the 35 millimeter, you know, negative is tiny. Think of an 8x10 negative. So that that affects all the optics and all the actual image exposure. Um so yes, it was not easy. And so he would often pack um probably no more than maybe 10 or 12 uh negatives, and you had to carry them in a in you know in a in a closed kind of negative holder. So these were heavy wooden boxes as well, essentially. So yeah, it was not easy. He couldn't just whip out a camera, and he had to be very judicious about what he did take a picture of. You know, there's no ratcheting and taking, you know, six exposures of the same image. Uh so hence, you know, the the the legend was that he would wait till the lighting was just right, you know, and and uh uh and and often you see that in his in his work, that he was waiting for the clouds or the sun or the yeah, as any photographer would do, but he was known for having a bit more patience, I think. And you see that in his work. His exposures are amazing. You you look at other photographers uh of the era um in Asheville, uh, and his work um uh is just sharper, it's it's it's better composed.
SPEAKER_01Do you have a a favorite MASA photo or uh or or a few favorites, or uh is there one that's particularly meaningful to you?
SPEAKER_00You know, like a lot of things, MASA, it kind of depends on what kind of mood you're in and and what you're thinking about. Right now it's April in Asheville and the dogwoods are blooming, right? I won't say that's necessarily a favorite, it's just something that strikes me right now as something that I look at what he appreciated, and I know how much that kind of flower and that tree means to me, you know, for a lot of different reasons. And I just like, yeah, that's cool. It's something we share together. Is it and that applies to his views of mountains too? You know, you hike to somewhere where he hiked, and you you stand near or at the same spot where he where he photographs something, and you just have that connection. It's just a it's just a cool thing that you can do here, and um, I've done it a fair bit. I guess I do favor some waterfall shots that are just fantastic. Hi uh High Falls over uh on the Kolesage River, beautiful photo photo there. His looking glass falls, you know, several photos uh are just extraordinary. One that is sort of more featured in the book and the film now that I hadn't seen um back in the day, so to speak. And uh, but it just shows a a framing, you know, uh that that is very uh artistic and and and very masa-like, I I think. There's a beautiful shot. One of my favorites, I guess, is also uh uh Linville Gorge. There's a there's a beautiful shot uh of Linville Gorge, which is such a exciting and and and evocative place to begin with, but the way he captured it, you know, you see the little uh the the Linville River down below, but you see these the two mountains kind of looming over it and this tree branch that artistically kind of frames it. You just see what he was going for, and you you see that he appreciated, you know, kind of how you know wild and scenic that that gorge is. Um and to know he was there, to know he explored it, uh again, there's a connection to the photo as well. If you if you live here and you and you get out there on the trail, it just heightens the appreciation for for him, I think.
SPEAKER_01You mentioned connections, you know, Massa being a photographer, you're a doc documentary filmmaker. I want to step back a little bit and and know more about you. Like what motivated you in in the earlier days to become a a documentary filmmaker?
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell I've said this many times, but it's true. When I got my hands on a Super 8 camera when I was just 10 years old, I just love the act act of making something that I could you know put film in this little camera and point it at things and then you know shoot stuff uh and then and then go to the drugstore and drop it off and then get it, get it back, and you'd have this little reel and you'd put it up and you'd show it, and and you'd see your your work. And um so early on I just loved the idea that I that I could create something visual. Um as I was looking for ways to tell kind of uh unique stories, I found that I was drawn to uh projects that uh that passionate people, you know, people who had lived lives uh or were doing things that were um inspiring or motivating or creative or, you know, so um, you know, one of my earlier films uh was about Carl Sandberg, the writer and and poet. And I had grown up near, you know, his house over in Flat Rock, and uh I felt like he had been underappreciated in the modern era, not only kind of academically, but but but popularly. You know, he had been a huge part of the 20th century. So I saw uh uh my job and my advocacy, if you will, to to tell his story in a way that people could access it today. So that's just an example of one of my um, I won't say earlier films, but it was like a mid-career film where I wanted to uh really embrace both the historical aspect of him and the kind of, okay, what does that mean today? Yeah. What does it matter? What why do we appreciate poetry? What did poetry, you know, uh what did not only poetry, but he he he wrote a lot of different things. But what did Carl Sandberg do then and and what does it matter now? So I'm always trying to answer both those questions in my films, I think. Um uh and and so uh I just loved documentary. I love documentary because um, you know, you you have to deal with sort of the the truth and the reality of of a story, but then but you also are obligated to do it creatively and try to weave a story together that will keep someone's interest, whether it's for 15 minutes or uh you know two hours. And those challenges are are are are they big. Those are those are those are those are challenges. And they they also require you know production uh that is at the as a high level as you can kind of pull off and afford given the format, you know. Um so g given the nature of documentary filmmaking, I think is what I mean. So um I I it's a it's a fascinating and difficult craft. Uh and I I I seem to be drawn to difficult things. And I I I sometimes regret that because uh just because it's it's just hard work. Yeah. But hard work is good for you, you know?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, and obviously you've done a lot of hard work uh, you know, studying the life of Massa. When did he first come into your orbit? Like, do you remember the first time that you learned about him?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, I uh I I grew up in Hendersonville and then lived in Atlanta for 10 years after college. So I came back to Asheville in 1997, and uh I was starting my own, or not starting, well, I was had moved the business here and was starting new in Asheville, but was really looking for a story, a documentary story that would immerse me in in the region. Uh and I didn't really know exactly what I was looking for, but I knew I wanted to tell a story. And around the same time, uh in uh you know, in the first couple years of being in Asheville, uh Rob Neufeld was a great writer for the Asheville newspaper. Um he's he's he's been dead a few years now, unfortunately. But um he wrote uh a short article and posted a photograph of George Massa on this go-kart. And you know, he um this you know, this Japanese guy, 19 whatever teens, Asheville, sitting on this wooden go-kart and has this sort of smirky smile on his face. Like uh and I was just immediately intrigued. Like, I want to know more about that guy. Who what's the story with that? So um, you know, the image of Massa and the idea that he was here from that moment forward uh created just a fascination that I had for wanting to know more of the of the story. Um turns out Bill Hart had written a short uh article about Massa and had and had had collected photographs of his and told that story in another in a in a in um Robert Brunck's book, May We All Remember Well. So I had a starting place for research uh at that time, and I called Bill, um great hiker author who um still lives here in the area and is in the new film, by the way. Um so he's in the first film. But um uh I called him and he said, you know, I've done a lot of research, but um I feel like I've just scratched the surface, and there's a whole lot we don't Know and I don't know if what we and at that time too, the the sheer number of his photographs and the whereabouts of his photographs was was not clear to anyone, and there's a lot of reasons to that. But um uh he had been finding them in various places. Uh uh, but that became uh I said, are there enough photographs to make a film about George Massa? Because that was my immediate, you know, uh thought. Uh and he was like, I I don't know for sure, but here are some places to look. So Bill helped me um kind of launch that uh motivated me to get into that. And uh and so from the very beginning it was not just telling Massa's story, it was actually searching for Massa's story, you know, and and uh and honestly that is better than just telling a story, as I now understand research and the idea, I think because it it falls back on that idea of what can you do that nobody else has done, and research is that. If the if people don't know the answer to a story, you've got to go find it. And um and that's what was required here. So that's yeah.
SPEAKER_01And and and it made sense that that that first documentary is called The Mystery of George Masa, there. Right? Uh yeah, I mean uh could could you have imagined when that was coming out that this would end up becoming a 20-plus year pursuit?
SPEAKER_00You know, the m the mysteries at the time we thought we had uh unraveled many, and and we did some, but more than anything, the film intrigued people and it celebrated him. Um when I finished that, I kind of thought the w the job was done, you know. Um uh but I I I had in the back of my mind, I want to revisit Massa someday and write a book about him. Partly because I knew that a book needed to be made to show more of his photographs in a in a print form. And there's just so much detail even then that we knew that we couldn't put into a film. I was like, I I want to revisit this. It might be years from now, but I'm gonna revisit it. So I had that in the back of my head. Um and then, you know, I get a phone call uh after the film airs, and this family here in Asheville have found these letters and had known about these letters um that are in Japanese, and they just held on to them because they knew they were George Moss's, and they uh they didn't want to get rid of them. They're beautiful, they're interesting, but no one had read them ever. And so I get this phone call uh and I'm like, I would love to look at them. We had very little in Japanese of George Moss's. We had one of his diaries that was mostly in Japanese, but it was very short and and mostly details of of of his expenditures and a few poems and a few short things that are in that film. But uh unfortunately it took more than five years for me to finally get copies of those letters. It was just complicated family dynamics for that family. So-and-so had them. Where are they now? They're in a Tupperware box, and da-da-da-da. And I think everybody can relate to And, you know, there were some divorces and some people died in the process, you know, and I kept I kept on it. And then finally, you know, much to their credit, they they they made copies um of these and got them to me. And I this is in 2007 or so, and uh had them translated by my uh Japanese translator here in Asheville, uh Fusako Crummel, who is who is deceased now. And we spent a lot of time looking at them, but she was puzzled by them. And the fact that they were so complicated, uh she knew Masa's story as as well as anyone because she'd helped me on a lot of Japanese translations, and also just theorizing. At that point, you know, there were so many mysteries. We we were theorizing on where he could have come from. You know, we were trying to find him in universities in the United States and in and in Japan under Masaharu Iazuka, which we thought was his his birth name, um, which he was his quote Japanese name when he was first in Asheville. Uh but it turned out all those things led to led to nothing. And so anyway, when we found these Yama letters, as we call them, uh and translated them, and she looked at them, we couldn't come to a conclusion by any means. And and um there was some poetry in there, there were some really intriguing things, including a life insurance policy uh that was not obviously not a letter, but a document that was in this as well, um, which had some interesting dates and names on it as well. None of it really re uh s conclusively revealed anything. And it you'd have to actually see them and understand. It's a hard thing for me to describe because I wanted them to produce like results, but they're all written by Massa about this guy named Yama. And so that's why we call them the Yama letters. So um honestly, I we went pretty far into them, but then other work and projects took over, and I was just like, I I've got to put this in that file of to be revisited someday. I had too much going on in life and in projects and stuff to to to drop everything and do a new George Massa film. Um and but fortunately that paid off because the time during that time, lots of newspapers have been digitized. Lots of archives have been digitized. And so when we got serious, when Janet McHugh um proposed to me that we do a book together about George Massa, um a lot had changed in the research you know um possibilities. Most most prominent is Asheville Citizen and Times newspapers from the from that era had been digitized. And I didn't have to go microfiche through all that, which was so labor-intensive and not really that productive. You couldn't keyword search, you couldn't, you know, from you know, in a whole newspaper from 1922 or whatever, um, you could spend a whole day looking at one newspaper to to find one name. So it was very um uh slow going. Um all that changed when we started to write this book. And I said to Janet, and I said, you know, these Yama letters are really complicated, but if we get help, this this probably will be the key to us maybe, maybe understanding who George Master really was. And that's what happened.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it's I mean it's worth pointing out again for folks who haven't seen the the first documentary or haven't yet seen the second one or read the book. Yeah, you mentioned it before. He showed up here in Asheville, but didn't really say where he came from, and just, you know, even to close friends, it was like the it sort of like his life just started in Asheville.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, let me, I guess, contextualize it a little more for the person who has no idea who George Massa was. You know, from 1915 through 1933 when he died, first he worked for the Grove Park Inn, uh, got off a train, had a job interview set up with the manager, walked in, met the guy, got a job, started in the laundry room, but within a within a year he was working at the front desk or in the as a valet uh in the lobby, was taking pictures uh of uh guests, developing photographs, um, printing them, had a side business at the Grove Park Inn.
SPEAKER_01I I wrote down when I watched the first one a great line, from laundry hand to leading hand.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. He grew he had the business here in Asheville throughout all the many he had like five different versions of his own business at the same time. But throughout all of that, um we know he had close friends later in the Carolina Mountain Club. We know he knew a lot of the people at the newspapers and had close friends with the journalists there. They worked together, they were on assignment in a sense together. Um but we aren't aware of um any r reveals of his past to anyone. And in fact, after he died, that was commonly spoken of in his obituaries that no one knew, you know, George Moss's p past. He wouldn't talk about it. Um if if he had told that to Horace Kepphart, one of his probably his truest friend that we know of, you know, we don't have any record of of that. We assume maybe, but i it's really not an assumption we should we can make. Maybe on a trail like Well, possibly, because Kepphard had had, and this is kind of discussed in the longer version of the film, the feature-length version of the film, more theorization of Kepphard had has had his own struggles, uh, which were serious, and he'd found his his respite in the mountains, he'd found his his escape from those struggles, and now we know Massa had his own uh reasons to r reinvent himself, rename himself, uh come here and and uh try to make a difference, both uh in in you know, uh and this honestly is was the big mystery of George Massa for me, both then and as through this new film and book. Why did George Masa do the things he did uh and w why was he secretive about his past? You know, um and I I think we can we can say pretty conclusively now we we know the answers to to to those mysteries and um uh and you have to see the film to know uh all the details of that. No.
SPEAKER_01Um well yeah, re read the book, see the see the film. Um I mean something I I did wonder, like for someone who seemed so intentional about hiding his past, did you wrestle at all with digging into it?
SPEAKER_00Yes. Uh big subject, you know, like the ethics of of why. Once we knew uh more about why he had done the things he had done, why he left the West Coast, why he uh uh seemed very passionate about f uh celebrating the Great Smokies, the mountains here, the the trails, the the kind of inner uh motivations that that came out of our our our knowledge of that story, and then some of his writing, some of his poetry, where we see him both you know celebrating the the beauty and the power of nature um and also um kind of wrestling with it with his own journey. Um it seemed like more to celebrate and and not a train wreck that that we were just photographing. You know, it it um his uh it is complicated and I won't say that it I didn't feel intrusive at times. I didn't feel like I mean if you asked a question, what would George want, I I don't know the answer to whether he'd be happy that we now know all these things. Uh but I couldn't stop from looking, especially with the Yama letters and when one domino began to fall and we began to understand uh so much more about him, you know, including the fact that, you know, a little bit of a spoiler, but it's it's great for me to be able to say this that that we we now know he was part of a very influential hiking group uh in out of Seattle in in Portland, the Mazamas, and was the first Japanese member and was the first Japanese um person to climb Mount Rainier. Um these were things that we had no clue about before we went deep into it. And so um it's it's not just the troubling kind of story of why he left the West Coast that we revealed. We were able to reveal all these other celebratory and and and and uh and really logic links that let us know more about him. For instance, you know, in that club, they were they were advocating for national parks then, in the in the early uh, you know, five years before he came to Asheville. So when he got here, he he wasn't you know new to that idea. He saw what was going on on the West Coast, he saw photographers influencing the the agendas. So all that contributes to just a bigger knowledge base about why he was doing the things he did, where he and and and where he had kind of gathered the raw material to be the person he became. To me, as a researcher, writer, filmmaker, I mean, that's the stuff that you just you hope to be able to come to these these conclusions or these reveals that uh give you more insight into someone. You know, hopefully that also inspire others to know his story and see power and possibility in their own lives. Yeah. That's an important part of this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And and it's also, you know, I mean, it's it's cool to point out he was an immigrant and you know, continued to do all these things that for the for the betterment of this country and and where we live, and it's really cool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, um uh in the film, you know, someone talks about it being the you know, a st a version of the American dream, his story, and it tr and it truly is um because he he he saw America and he's on record as kind of he stayed here. He didn't go home. He he loved the possibility that was here for him as an immigrant. Um yes, he had to leave the West Coast, and I think it was the smartest thing he ever did. There there was a lot more racism on the West Coast than there was here for him, for Japanese people. Things were, the tide was turning around that time for Chinese and Japanese immigrants on the West Coast. Their kind of quote usefulness had had had exhausted itself in building the railroads and you know running, uh doing a lot of the manual labor that that that was available to them early on. He came here and and was, uh, as you know, one of the chapters in the book and the film illustrates, also targeted by the Klan in a very dark chapter, but largely more appreciated for being for being different. For there weren't a lot of Asian Americans or Asian people in the region at that time. He wasn't um uh he wasn't scrutinized nearly as harshly as he as he m probably was had been in the West Coast. Uh and it was just a but it was also culturally a dramatic shift for him, you know. He he had been in communities in Portland and Seattle of Japanese communities, uh, but coming here, there there was no one, you know, that that uh that that there was, you know, there were there were no there's no Japantown in Asheville, right? You know, like there was in Portland where he lived. So it is it is a story uh of an a beautiful immigrant story, you know. Um unfortunately it you know, it ends somewhat tragically. He was only 48 years old when he died. And uh he had plans, he had ideas. Um of course they would have you know run head into World War II in another decade had he had he lived. And and it's you know it's somewhat pointless, but interesting to theorize what would have happened at that time for him here. But um uh but he lived a phenomenal life. I still can't believe he accomplished all he did in 18 years here. Uh and he just worked so hard. And we now understand that better. Angeline Whitmeyer has this um GeorgeMassa Photo Database.com. Our georgeMassa.com website can link to that and other research things. So if people are really into George Massa, obviously the book and the film are but we the the new website has a uh a research link that but Angeline um has been digitizing and organizing all of Massa's photographs, and there's some some uh I think somewhere around 5,000 of them now available on her database, and you can see them. But seeing the scope of his work in that format, you it's just phenomenal like how uh how much work he did, how many of those eight by tens or five by sevens he had to both take, hike, travel, get in his his his little, you know, uh uh Ford uh car and go to Highlands and spend two weeks shooting photographs and then develop them all and um thousands upon thousands of of photos. And uh he was working very hard. He he worked himself to death essentially, you know. Um and uh uh you know he was never wealthy, he he never had much money, died, you know, fifteen hundred dollars in debt. Uh and um the the the Great Depression had been really hard on business. Nobody was well the Biltmore estate was was was was hired him at a key moment in their history and in his history. We tell that story in the film, and and uh uh and and and that was some work he did in the Depression. Um but he had also committed himself so much to the park and the Appalachian Trail movements that uh he was spending his own money on those projects. Yeah. You know.
SPEAKER_01Um you were kind of hinting at this uh a few minutes ago, but um you know I know that he he also at one point left Asheville to go to Colorado for a little bit. Um it seemed like maybe he would have stayed there. Like he's he didn't he start a photography business there too?
SPEAKER_00Well he he he interviewed for a job there, as we now know. There was a period in time he'd worked for Grove Park Inn for a few years, um, that he got restless, no question about it. He began to he had not uh committed himself to starting his own business here, and he got on a train and went to Colorado to see the beauty of the mountains and and was prop possibly going to stay there. Um Yes.
SPEAKER_01And I what what do you think pulled him back ultimately to to Asheville?
SPEAKER_00I think he needed that kind of trip to realize how in a short period of time he had ingratiated himself in in the in a in a in the Asheville area pr pretty significantly. And Fred Seely was frankly begging him to come back to work. They really liked him at Grove Park in. And um uh and I think Massa probably got out there, probably I mean, this this is obviously theoretical. We we have, you know, obviously some letters that they exchanged about about this. Um you know, it's a it's a documented uh part of his his his journey. Um but Seely wanted him back. Seely gave him uh a raise and a month off every July, which you know is a pretty busy time tourist-wise around here. So that shows you some somewhat about how he was appreciated. I think Massa needed that trip out west. Maybe he saw some of the, you know, that that it was not quite uh the escape that he wanted to. He said he took in the beauty of the mountains, and of course the Rockies are impressive. And as we now know, he had been climbing in the in the Cascades and he'd been climbing in the you know in the Pacific Northwest. You know, I think what pulled him back to the area is also what what kept him here and and why he did the work he did. And I think that was the beauty and the kind of uh comfort, if you will, that he found in the in these mountains. They, having now been to Japan, been to the areas where he grew up, there is a physical similarity between those mountains. And that uh that was very apparent when we were in uh Shizuoka, the town that he he grew up in, in the shadow of Mount Fuji, and the mountains around there, and and uh there's a similarity. Um but uh also he was embraced here. You know, I think um aside from the the the complicated uh clan uh chapter, um even that illustrates how the locals really rose to his defense. They saw him as being targeted and you know, and the this this guy who would they stepped up for him and uh got him out of that uh situation um and then continued to support him through his life here. So I think he felt that. I think he appreciated that. Um he did good work, he he explored the region, he he became you know a leader and a kind of a mentor in the Carolina Mountain Club. And these were this were the publisher of the newspaper who was involved with that. This was uh doctors, lawyers, you know, uh young college students, like this whole mixture of people. And and and they thought Masa was just the uh he was their elder. Was their leader. And that's just a it's an amazing aspect of the story is how much the Carolina Mountain Club people loved him and then through World War II after Moss's death into the 1960s remembered him and and ensured that a mountain was named for him in 1961. This was you know something that they had long wanted to do. Um and then, you know, 20 years later, they they made it happen. That just as one of those uh examples of how um I knew that that Masa was loved here and appreciated. And that also kind of drove me to want to know the story deeper. Um these people, you know, had done all that for him, not knowing some of these inner workings. Uh it's not necessarily a logic, but it's uh uh it it did motivate me to see their love for him. Um I think, you know, dropping back to an earlier question you asked me, I have felt, you know, an affinity to George Mossett. No question about it. Like seeing his pictures, the ones he makes, and the ones of him, knowing his story, reading his letters, his sense of humor, his intelligence, um, all of those things just contribute to me feeling like through the years, like he's this, he's this dead friend of mine. You know? Yeah. He's this guy who I who and I'm actually getting to know him better uh through all this historical work. Like um, and that's you can call it weird. I don't know what it is, but it's it's when I call when I say in the film that you know I it I was obsessed, you know, I I don't mean that in a in a weird way. I've just but I I am perpetually interested in in his story um because it keeps revealing to me, I don't know, little clues about how how I can be happy, how I can live life, how I can um necessarily be more like Massa, but but um do good work. You know, that that's so important. Uh and and try to help others, try to try to work for a big cause, you know, uh try to do the things that uh are good for everybody. That's those are some of those uh those important things about his story that I uh that I that I it's why I'm involved in in telling his story.
SPEAKER_01And I don't I don't think it's weird the idea of the dead friend. I think it's actually really cool. And it it to me because it's a it's basically a a sign of respect for this person that you've you know focused a lot of your attention on. And and it also makes me now want to think like who are some historical figures that I would want to hang out with? It like goes back to those old questions of like uh who are three people you would bring to dinner living or dead, right? But thinking about it in a different term.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Well he's on my list. That'd be that uh that'd that'd be uh for certain. Um yeah, if there is an afterlife that that that we're both sharing, um that that would be fun to to do.
SPEAKER_01Um you you mentioned going to Japan. Is that is that the greatest link that you'd say you went through to or went to to tell this story?
SPEAKER_00You know what's interesting, and the film uh intentionally is different from the book, and going to Japan is something that we did after we finished the book, Janet and I, for the film. Uh so yes, and it also you know brought new research to bear even after we finished the book that's in the film. Um absolutely. And and it was motivated by some things, again, that aren't in the book that are in the film, that Masa had this connection to a trail uh in Japan that was made here in the in the 21st century, but was inspired by the Appalachian Trail. So it's this neat story uh of Japanese people who came and hiked the Appalachian Trail and then went back to Japan and said, we we need that kind of thing here. So um going to that trail, meeting some of these people and telling that story, um, that's a a a length that we we went to for sure. I think but even before that uh aspect in the film um the links we went to really what were uh genealogically and and research uh into him uh was at a level that I uh that that was non-stop for about two years, you know, with um uh Janet and I, of course, but then uh three Japanese researchers, all in Tokyo, uh led by our our researcher on the West Coast, who's a who's a Japanese genealogist, um uh uh and she Linda's in the film, our our lead genealogist, and and so you know, committing to that, finding the money to do that, finding the patience and the focus to really see that through, that led to the results that we have now. And that was just something that we had to we had to commit to. We couldn't just look at those YAML letters and go, yeah, that's just a big mystery, and then move on. Um, we were we were ready to accept that maybe nothing would come out of them, uh, but it turned into the opposite, where it turned into everything came out of them. Um and that was that was exciting, including George Masa, who was named Shoji Indo, as a baseball player. And uh I never could have thought that we would be you're researching uh the the Japanese baseball teams in Portland and Seattle at the beginning of this and looking and finding photographs of of Shoji Endo, aka Yama in these on these baseball teams uh in the Pacific Northwest. So that's just one of those like, are you kidding me, moments that came up in the in the in the documentary.
SPEAKER_01If you build it, he will come.
SPEAKER_00Uh to quote another basic. If you look, you sometimes find. Yeah. You know, um, and and we we sure did.
SPEAKER_01So after spending so many years telling this story, uh what what do you hope viewers take away from the new documentary?
SPEAKER_00Well, as as hopefully they'll see, there's several threads uh at work at the same time. Um and that includes, you know, why and how someone like me gets interested in in this. Why, as to some of the questions you've asked, what what has motivated me to be doing this? And and uh so I hope people see that um this work, this idea of of historical research and then storytelling around it, um can be very uh uh inspiring, helpful, interesting, fascinating. Like I I've always, since the first film in my experience with George Massa, I'm it takes a a hundred years, gets compressed down, and it it doesn't seem that long ago to me anymore. You know, you s when you spend days reading the newspapers from 1928 or whatever, yeah, um you you begin to see that we're all part of this continuum, this the the time. You begin to understand and appreciate time and history differently. You see, you see atrocious things that happened, you see beautiful things that happened, you see the you know, the same building, the same steps that you can walk up, you know, uh on this building here in Asheville. Those are the same ones in that photograph. These are the same ones, you know, we inhabit the same universe, uh, but then there's this weird twist where everything is is different as well. You know, there's no, there's there's the phones, you know, and electric lights had, you know, just just just you know become uh you know, so there's this whole shift. And I I think um uh telling Moss's story, I I hope people see this and can identify with him, but then also appreciate, you know, obviously his his immigrant story, how it's it's all our story. We all came to America in some way, shape, or form, except for obviously the Native Americans. And and we all have so much to be grateful for and and thankful for um and responsible for, you know, the conservation aspect um has, you know, the community here is so empowered to enjoy and appreciate and conserve the region, but it can it takes continual work, you know, uh uh trail maintenance, um environmental consciousness, meaning like the science of it, has to be done. Uh everything from groundwater management to invasive species, like we're dealing with all these complicated things. That work continues. The Moss, the the MASA spirit of of conservation and appreciation uh takes form in different ways now, maybe, you know, than than than just securing a national park or or you know or or building a uh routing a trail like the Appalachian Trail. It it takes different form. So I you know I hope people are inspired by the people in the film who were who have done that. And that story is is in there as well. The Carolina Mountain Club is thriving these days, and uh they're out, you know, every day of the week maintaining these trails that sometimes you and I like cruise through and give give very little appreciation for the the rocks that are set in a certain way. You know, that that trail would be impossible without without that work being done. So, you know, these are part of the things I I I intentionally want to celebrate and telling Moss's story and hope people uh hopefully, you know, they see that. Um and then of course just seeing his his face and knowing he existed. I mean, I think that's uh he's a lovable kind of guy for me. I he's just sort of fascinating and curious, and uh uh and you know the truth is we're still not done researching him. You know, there's there's um who knows what what what comes next. Um another documentary?
SPEAKER_01Another book?
SPEAKER_00I I highly doubt another documentary. Um uh but we are doing a second edition of the book to include some stuff um that's come up since we finished the first one. I I just I love the idea that that the story is gonna be out on on PBS for free around the country and people can see it. And uh I love the emails I get, you know, when people respond and have questions. Um uh and there are still, again, there are still some mysteries that that that we might uh unravel through the sharing of this new film.
SPEAKER_01I have one final question for you, but first, is there anything we didn't cover about Massa that that you wanted to get to today?
SPEAKER_00This whole project, this whole involvement with George Massa, I the the term rabbit holes comes up in the film because at any given moment there are just dozens and dozens of different ways and things I could explore to go down another one, and you don't know what's gonna be there. So, you know, I'll always I am continually doing new new Google searches or newspapers.com searches, and a new newspaper will pop up somewhere and I'll I'll search that to see if anything shows up. But the point is here's here's an example of one. You know, in 1928, the newspaper has a small headline, Indian Guides Park Photographers. You know, so there's Chief Blue Eagle takes George Massa into the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, and they quote it at saying, the Indian chief is widely recognized as an authority on trails uh which lead into the uninhabited and practically unexplored regions of the parklands. So there's this a rabbit hole right there. Like, who was Chief Blue Eagle? What did he and Massa do on this on this journey? You know, and he's he's with someone, uh one of his Carolina Mountain Club friends. Where is it? Um Norman Scrivener. And so I'm I'm soon I'm Googling Norman Scrivener and wondering what his career was like. What did he do for the Asheville Citizen Times? What did he do? He was a writer for the Asheville paper, whose name I'd never come up seen before. You know, this this chief, you know, the chief blue eagle. So all of a sudden, my imagination, both creatively and research-wise, goes into, you know, we knew Massa spent time in Cherokee. Uh he he he was over there often. He photographed the Cherokee affairs, he did, he shot, you know, newsreel footage over there. Um he and Kepphard explored and knew quite a few Cherokee folks. Um but what was this relationship like? You know, uh we we know nothing really other than this headline. Uh and that's just one of those intriguing things. Does does does the Museum of the uh Cherokee uh do they have something about this, about this that just hasn't come up yet because we didn't we haven't looked. You know, so these are some of the rabbit holes in what makes Massa's journey interesting is all of a sudden there might be a whole quote chapter of a book right here about his time with Chief you know Blue Eagle. But or or it could have been a one-off thing that that someone set up and and nothing ever really, you know, it didn't, it doesn't have any meat on the bones. But until you dive in and look around, you know, I but I run into these this kind of thing all the time. Or someone will say, Have you looked here for photographs? Or I think George Moss has shot a whole lot of photographs. And fortunately, Angelin is doing a lot of that work too, in uh in terms of the the photo database. But it, you know, it's just a deep, it's just a deep hole to to go down. Um and a and a wonderful one. But what was your last question? Yes.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I think it kind of relates to this, which is uh for for an aspiring writer or aspiring documentary filmmaker out there who's maybe maybe they're just getting to their moment of uh, you know, like for you, like George, George Massa coming into your orbit, like I said earlier. Like, what advice do you give to those people who are just starting to think about diving into their own project?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I'm gonna be over at Western Carolina on Wednesday doing just that. So I need a better a real good answer to this question. Helping you prep. Um all the good stories have been taken, so just um stop now. You know, change go into you know uh AI. No. Um not true, not true. Um you know that is a a good question, and the one that I can only answer personally, which is you have to be compelled and committed to doing you have to know in your heart that this is what you're supposed to do. Uh and by that, with me, it was media production first, and then I found my way pretty soon into like the kind of storytelling I like to do. I still had to balance that with kind of commercial work for decades. And was doing a dock here and doing all these, all this client work. That was exhausting, that was hard, but it was what I had to do. Um, you gotta find a way to make it work. And whether you're thorough out in the woods and live in a cabin, you know, uh with no electricity and do your work there because that's works for the the big mission, or whether you're balancing commercial work or you're a uh you you work as an engineer and then you do this on the side, or whether you, you know, whatever. You you you um if you're compelled and passionate to to be a storyteller, you'll find a way to make it work. There are a lot of forces that'll that'll that'll tell you to stop. And you have to find a story that you believe in, you have to believe in yourself, you have to, you have to, in my case, I have to really care about the work I'm doing, or I'll run out of energy. I have to pick stories that will motivate me, not just the first day I'm on it, but three years, ten years into it. They don't they all don't need to last that long. You know, um, you need to also have a uh a completion mode, like, okay, what is the I gotta finish. I I'll tell students all the time who are filmmakers, like, whatever it is, finish it. That's that's so important. Finish the process because you don't get feedback, you don't learn anything, and you you might see it as a failure if you don't finish it. Just get it done, turn it in. You know, uh you'd rather you'd rather have a C minus than a than fail. Incomplete. Incomplete, right. So finish the deal. Um uh now I again people I I've run into this problem where I think people think like I think about certain things. And like my now I know myself a little better. I can come up with a st with a way of telling a story pretty quickly. I can not everybody has that. I've learned that over time. I've I've had to you know kind of teach myself how to do that. You still gotta, you gotta you know, there are very few naturals in this. You have to learn it, you have to uh and you have to practice it, but you also have to kind of unabashedly dive in. You have to go buy that little camera, you have to, you know, it's a lot easier than it used to be in terms of tech technologically to have the tools, but you have to commit to the story. Yeah. There's a lot to that about how to finish the deal, how to either broadcast or share it. You know, of course, there's a thousand different ways now of sharing media like a podcast or a YouTube channel or whatever, TikTok. Um so there's different forms for different people, no question about it. But for me, I still really love getting people together in a room, turning the lights down and then playing the thing, the film. To me, that brings community together. It brings uh it it shows the story in a way that um uh is how in in this in in my case how the artist intends intends it to be seen. I think about that whenever I'm editing a project, is not someone watching it on their phone, not someone watching it even at home on TV. I think about it like the focus that someone brings to watching a film and a theater is is what I hope people bring to the experience. That's the goal, is to create something that is that uh engaging that will keep someone from being impatient or losing their track. I tell people that's why the craft is so important, you know, understanding how to do it. It's it's fun work, but it's hard work.
SPEAKER_01That's all for today. Huge thanks to Paul Bonesteel for joining me. A Life Reimagined, the George Massa story, begins streaming on PBS on May 1st with a North Carolina broadcast premiere set for May 12th. You can learn more about the film and see some of Massa's photos at GeorgeMassa.com. And you can learn more about Paul's work beyond Massa at Bonesteelfilms.com. You can find OnTheBlue Ridge on Instagram at OnTheBlue Ridge and online at on the blueridgepod.com. And if you're enjoying this podcast, please follow or subscribe wherever you listen. Consider leaving a rating and a quick review, or just share it with a friend. It really helps more people find the show. Our theme music is the song Goa, written by Lindsay Pruitt and performed by the John Stickley Trio. Thanks for listening, and we'll catch you next time on the Blue Ridge.