Kathryn Davis -The Jedi's Path

I'm delighted to share this mind expanding visit with Kathryn Davis. She is one of the most inspiring people I know in Taoist and esoteric practice, touching countless realms within and beyond.  

Kathryn has 30 years experience as a Qigong Teacher and facilitator of Movement, Meditation and Energy Healing systems, including: Reiki, EnergyFieldology™, Toltec, Shamanic Healing and the Cherokee-based Sandlin Technique:

Her current Qigong teaching repertoire includes the “Soaring Crane,” “Jade Body,” “Essence” and “Turtle Longevity” forms: She is the founder of the Kun Li Sheng™ Qigong form and energy healing system. Is certified by the Oregon College of Oriental Medicine and has participated in extensive study in both the U.S., Mainland China and Mexico.

She is the author of the forthcoming book Harness the Natural Rhythms of Life.
Connect with her at https://daoqigonglife.com

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;38;12

Chicava

Welcome to the Sheroes Space Podcast. It may be a man's world, but it sits on a woman's there. The philosophical and spiritual lives of black women are often overlooked for the care and responsibilities that we take over others career and ambitions and whatever else can cloud our view. Take our energy off ourselves. The Sheroes Space Podcast is a place for black women to connect and share their points of views.

00;00;38;19 - 00;01;15;10

Chicava

Learning and spirituality and philosophy. As she now is a woman committed to expanding authentically in her sovereign expression. Join me for conversations with sisters and our allies to help unleash in you, me and we The Shira Weekend.

00;01;15;13 - 00;01;15;27

Chicava

Welcome.Welcome, everyone. It's Chicago. We're back at the zero of space podcast today. I'm joined by Katherine Davis. Her school is called Dao Keegan Life. And I have to tell you, she is one of my most favorite teachers, sisters, elders to get to practice and study with. Every time I practice with her, I have a transcendental experience. It's transformative. It it stays with me beyond the moment of being an exercise with her and ripples out into the dream time in the days to come. So I haven't ever learned about her spiritual journey per se. So I'm very excited to share with you how she became the magnificent, amazing teacher that she is.

Welcome, Katherine.

00;02;13;24 - 00;02;21;02

Kathryn

Well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me here today. I've been looking forward to this conversation.

00;02;21;07 - 00;02;29;04

Chicava

I have, too. It took us a minute to get it all settled. There was a lot. This is probably going to be pretty juicy for everything it took to get here.

00;02;29;07 - 00;02;31;19

Kathryn

Let's hope so.

00;02;31;21 - 00;02;40;22

Chicava

So, Daoism, where are you? What's. How shall we start? Where are you from? Where are you born? Raised for your.

00;02;40;24 - 00;03;14;10

Kathryn

My mother's family is from New York. My father's family is from North Carolina, which somehow I managed to be born in Anchorage, Alaska. My father was in the service, but it has a lot to do with who I am being born in that space. And you know, that connection to the celestial world at that time in that space, I think helped to bring me to where I am now.

00;03;14;13 - 00;03;15;29

Chicava

How long did you live in Anchorage?

00;03;16;07 - 00;03;35;20

Kathryn

Not long. I came back as a child, but I came back. And as far as I can discern, I've always been a mystical child. Mystical person. So considering where I was born, I believe that that had a little bit of an impact.

00;03;35;23 - 00;03;45;21

Chicava

Yes. Up there under the aurora borealis, where you can really feel the arc of the earth, you see it on the horizon. Have you visited again?

00;03;45;24 - 00;04;18;04

Kathryn

No, no, not yet. I'll get there. But I feel connected to it. I was born in June. So was born during those long summer days without a real nighttime. And it's a little bit more goes into twilight. And I was born 5:30 a.m., which was a time of twilight when it never quite turns dark in Alaska.

00;04;18;06 - 00;04;31;05

Chicava

Wow. So when was the first time you kind of noticed a stirring in your soul? And were you raised in like the traditional kind of Abrahamic religions or.

00;04;31;05 - 00;05;10;22

Kathryn

Absolutely. I was like many people, though I don't call it Christianity. I was raised as a Catholic, which is something else, you know. But but as a small child, I was very believing, very faithful. And, you know, my childhood imaginary friends were angels. And I would talk directly to who I perceived the Christ to be. And I was very, very not so much religious as I was enmeshed in that spiritual world, which the people around me would tell me were imaginary friends.

00;05;10;22 - 00;05;17;16

Kathryn

But I still suspect I was actually talking to angels.

00;05;17;18 - 00;05;36;08

Chicava

I think sometimes I how do I want to say I had a message from myself the other day reflecting on my upbringing, and it was like you always you you ran into problems when you stopped believing what you knew and tried to believe what they were telling, what they believed.

00;05;36;13 - 00;05;41;28

Kathryn

Exactly. Exactly. And that's why I ended up leaving the Catholic Church when I was nine.

00;05;42;00 - 00;05;49;05

Chicava

When you were nine? Wow. They got me through confirmation and I. Yeah.

00;05;49;08 - 00;06;14;13

Kathryn

Yeah. I mean, I think I. I hung around long enough. I made a deal with my mom. She said, you have to stay to get your communion, your confirmation, then I won't bother you anymore. So I made that deal. But my decision to leave was before my first communion in the Catholic Church because I didn't like what I saw in the nuns and the priests.

00;06;14;16 - 00;06;41;04

Kathryn

Not that there was anything wrong with them, except they were mean. And I mean, you know, they're me and I couldn't understand the need for them. Why would I need to speak to a priest? I had always spoken directly to Spirit, and I couldn't understand. The rituals around the Catholic Church seemed to be pulling me further away from what I understood to be true as a small child.

00;06;41;06 - 00;06;49;15

Kathryn

So I left for many years, became spiritual, but never quite made my way back to the church.

00;06;49;17 - 00;07;02;05

Chicava

Okay, Yeah. A Clearly. So nine you leave the Catholic Church, you're listening to your angels, guides and teachers. And where did they lead you from there?

00;07;04;00 - 00;07;37;24

Kathryn

well, something else in my life took over. also about that time, shortly after that time, my mother was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. So I embarked on a self defined mission that I was going to take care of her. And I did. Up until the time that she passed away, I was in my thirties and, and that was the actually the most defining moment for me spiritually.

00;07;37;26 - 00;08;03;00

Kathryn

I was with her when she was at that transition point and I was by her bed, you know, holding her hand, staring into her eyes. And she was like kept repeating this mantra, I love you. I love you, I love you. And then as I looked into her eyes, I actually slipped out of my body into her eyes as she was dying.

00;08;03;00 - 00;08;32;18

Kathryn

And I traveled with her to the other side. And so that was my near-death experience. It wasn't my death, but it was my mother's death. And it was there that I got a confirmation. I didn't she beings, but I felt her presence there with me and I felt many presences there. But to me it looked more like a star scape.

00;08;32;20 - 00;09;05;22

Kathryn

Not any particular scene, but everything was every essence that I experience was a light and I would have stayed there except, you know, my mother coded, The doctors came in and pulled me out. And so and this happened to be on Roosevelt Island in New York, and that's the little island between Manhattan and Queens. So I stood outside and she hadn't quite passed, but, you know, was in a coma at that point.

00;09;05;24 - 00;09;32;22

Kathryn

And I kept feeling her say, leave, you know, go ahead, leave for the day. I'm like, what? But, you know, I, I kind of felt that strong urge. So I did leave. And then as you leave at that time, the only way off the island was by tram. So I get on the tram, it takes up over, you know, goes by the Queens Bridge or whatever, the Queensboro Bridge.

00;09;32;24 - 00;10;08;11

Kathryn

And as I reached the peak is when my mother passed away. And I knew that because her spirit joined me and we cohabitate for about 3 hours before she moved on. So that's what convinced me for sure that there was spirituality, there was a life beyond our life here on the earth, and that it was good on the other side because there was nothing fearful about it, there was nothing painful.

00;10;08;11 - 00;10;41;08

Kathryn

It was a very peaceful, calm space. And the experience I had of my mother was her more her making sure I was okay. And so so I walked around and we communed wasn't her language, but it was more a non-verbal language that I recognized as her and, you know, her her consoling and and the communication in a manner of speaking.

00;10;41;10 - 00;11;09;11

Kathryn

But, you know, she left after a time and I went on my merry way. And then about six months later, I actually had an out-of-body experience where I was in the spirit room and I was there. And it was interesting because I kind of became aware. And that experience, you know, they talk about walking down the long hallway or the tunnel of light, and that that's when I experienced that kind of light.

00;11;09;13 - 00;11;31;18

Kathryn

But I was perceiving it as a hallway in the hospital. I couldn't perceive it any other way. So just long hallway of light with no doors. But I perceived it as a hospital. And I walked in to turned into a room and there she was and there was a hospital bed there, but she was above the bed she was in actually lying on it.

00;11;31;20 - 00;11;59;20

Kathryn

And I just sat with her for what seemed like a very long time. And then, you know, she finally actually said, it's time to go. And I was like, I'm not going a second time. I was ready. And she convinced me after a long time that I needed to go back. So I said, okay. So I left the room, walked down the hallway, and at the end of the hallway was a door.

00;11;59;23 - 00;12;11;06

Kathryn

I opened the door and stepped into my living room and now he's on the couch. And then I sat in for myself on the couch.

00;12;11;08 - 00;12;11;23

Chicava

Wow.

00;12;12;00 - 00;12;42;08

Kathryn

Yeah. So that was a kind of a very, very deep experience. But I kind of had a relationship with my mother because she had been in that nursing care for ten years. So for ten years I was there every day, every other day, caring for her. So we had become very enmeshed. Yes. Merged as in our experience of each other.

00;12;42;08 - 00;12;44;08

Kathryn

So it just happened that way.

00;12;44;13 - 00;12;49;04

Chicava

Yeah. You were more like twin sister on the soul level.

00;12;49;06 - 00;12;59;24

Kathryn

Yeah. And then after that, I really started my spiritual journey in earnest because I wanted to have a deeper understand of the spirit world.

00;12;59;26 - 00;13;02;24

Chicava

And how that happened and what it meant.

00;13;02;24 - 00;13;19;03

Kathryn

Yeah. Who? So, yeah, so I started reading a lot of books. You know, the question Miracles from a book called Obey, which is a sacred book that is like the Course in Miracles.

00;13;19;03 - 00;13;20;12

Chicava

Okay?

00;13;20;14 - 00;13;56;18

Kathryn

But it covers the cosmology of the world from the perspective of the spirit realm. So it's not the Earth story. It's the story of the succession of powers on the earth. And it talks more about the system of how gods are created and coming to power and govern a particular portion of Earth, how they rise and fall and are replaced with each generation.

00;13;56;20 - 00;14;14;22

Kathryn

I thought that was fascinating to learn that there was not a single God because God, according to the Gospel, is not the Creator God. The word God or the term or the concept of God is actually an office.

00;14;14;22 - 00;14;15;09

Chicava

Whoa. So keep Going.

00;14;15;16 - 00;14;50;03

Kathryn

So a person becomes a God by virtue of their development and their goodwill and their good deeds and they are in charge of leading a particular people. So according to G or space before the generation in which we're living, there were many gods, just like the old religions say, and each people had absolutely had a separate God. So the Hindus had a different God, and the Christians then the Jewish.

00;14;50;05 - 00;15;03;14

Kathryn

So every religion actually has their own God, according to space, and the gods are not the Creator. So they're only somewhere in the middle smart.

00;15;03;16 - 00;15;13;11

Chicava

And they're like district managers. Yeah. wait. Wow. Okay. I've never heard of the OAHSPE. How do you spell it?

00;15;13;26 - 00;15;20;20

Kathryn

gosh, I'm not sure. OAHSPE might be a H. Okay.

00;15;20;23 - 00;15;31;28

Chicava

I'll I'll look it up and make sure we know where to find you. I will post the copy and I. I m so like.

00;15;32;01 - 00;15;58;13

Kathryn

Wow, this thing is just this particular book talks about how the plains were formulated, you know, how the Earth plane was formula it it gives you dimensions. It talks about how things came into creation and it gives you a lot. There's a lot of mathematical detail to the book. It was big and it's basically the history of the spirit realm.

00;15;58;16 - 00;16;14;28

Kathryn

And humans are not even so much part of the story, except that by the time we get to the era of the Christian era, you know, before Rome distorted what Christianity was.

00;16;14;28 - 00;16;15;22

Chicava

Okay.

00;16;15;25 - 00;16;24;19

Kathryn

Was around the time that a human being was able to elevate themselves to the level of being a god.

00;16;25;01 - 00;16;26;20

Chicava

okay. So before this.

00;16;26;20 - 00;16;27;13

Kathryn

Before that.

00;16;28;01 - 00;16;29;22

Chicava

divine intervention.

00;16;29;28 - 00;17;08;14

Kathryn

Before the, the gods were from other realms or other places go back. So, so, so the Hindu god would have been from another existence, another place, another time and space. And because they had already evolved through their system, they could then have the wisdom to be a God on a new planet. Okay. And it took a long time for humanity to elevate to the point that anyone from the Earth plane risen to the capacity to be a God.

00;17;08;16 - 00;17;32;00

Kathryn

Now, it doesn't say that this was the Christ or Yeshua, but it was in that era that this occurred. So maybe that's what Joshua was. He was a person who, through his evolution, through time, ultimately reached a space where he had the capacity to assume the position of God, which is not the Creator.

00;17;32;02 - 00;17;45;18

Chicava

Right. And it also stands to reason, again, like they say, he says in that book, what I have done you can do and more. And therefore and that was for his contemporaries.

00;17;45;21 - 00;18;16;24

Kathryn

Right? It was for his contemporaries, but it was for us, whether it was that particular individual or not, it was for humanity that that's our destiny to reach that level of understanding so that we like the God that came to us from all the other places, other realms. We as human beings could go to other places of the realms world and become.

00;18;16;26 - 00;18;24;03

Kathryn

So we're not gods here, but we have the capacity to become gods according to the USP.

00;18;24;05 - 00;18;36;16

Chicava

Wow. Okay. Thank you for opening up a whole new chamber. Like, I feel like we're done.

00;18;36;18 - 00;18;40;23

Kathryn

It's kind of amazing. And so I read, I, I started.

00;18;40;25 - 00;18;43;04

Chicava

And this is where you started.

00;18;43;07 - 00;19;12;12

Kathryn

I found the course in miracles first, And this was before Marianne Williamson made it popular. I would just go into a bookstore and wander the shelves until something to stop. And I looked and that that's where I saw the Course in Miracles. And that's three books. It's a text, it's a workbook, and it's a teacher's manual. So there are three books to that course in Miracles.

00;19;12;14 - 00;19;39;09

Kathryn

So I spent a couple of years reading that, and somewhere along the line I found the gospel and then I went to other Egyptian ancient texts. And so I just, you know, if I having the notion that civilization on the planet according to a lost faith in some of the other texts is extremely ancient. We're not talking about.

00;19;39;11 - 00;19;40;28

Chicava

Five.

00;19;41;00 - 00;20;06;01

Kathryn

Millennia. Yeah. And so and then I would look into a lot of the Egyptian texts and I was lucky to be at some point in between the I used to work at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, a very, you know, common position. I was a security guard, but I worked at night. I had Paris keys and I would go into all the storerooms and check out their ancient books.

00;20;06;04 - 00;20;06;29

Kathryn

So I was bad.

00;20;07;06 - 00;20;12;07

Chicava

But you you were bad like Michael Jackson. like in the.

00;20;12;07 - 00;20;22;29

Kathryn

Name of good. So I came across a lot of these very ancient texts there. And then I search for them online to try to have them have access to them.

00;20;23;01 - 00;20;41;13

Chicava

Well, and just in the power that you're dealing with, I feel like you getting to be in the transmission that happens just from you laid eyes on them. They they're seeing you. There's somebody, these guides and angels and folks that you've been chit chatting with since you were a kid.

00;20;41;13 - 00;21;05;09

Kathryn

They're guiding me along my way, actually. So when I was in the working at the museum, you know, I would go to the basement, to the store rooms, all the libraries, all the books, but they don't actually allow the public to see. And I found this book, it was an ancient was translated by, you know, whoever translated Egyptian text I forgot the guy's.

00;21;05;09 - 00;21;06;09

Chicava

You all sponge.

00;21;06;13 - 00;21;12;08

Kathryn

Probably. But there was this book I never heard of called The Book of Paradise Girl.

00;21;12;08 - 00;21;21;29

Chicava

Stop! Go there. Go. Keep going. Do you see why I. I'm like, She's my Yoda. Okay.

00;21;22;01 - 00;21;27;02

Kathryn

Yeah. There was this book called The Book of Paradise, which I also read. I mean.

00;21;27;09 - 00;21;30;02

Chicava

You read it in the store room or you found it.

00;21;30;04 - 00;21;59;04

Kathryn

I found it. I was reading it in the store room. But it's a huge book, and I think there are two volumes to it. So it's like several thousand pages. So what's really interesting about the Book of Paradise and it's putting down as the book of wisdom of monks in the Egyptian desert. So this is the handed down wisdom of the monks who lived in the desert.

00;21;59;06 - 00;22;32;14

Kathryn

So who were the monks who lived in the desert? Isn't that like the scenes, you know, and all of those people who had all this ancient knowledge? And so he translated these books of these ancient of these Egyptian monks, of the knowledge that they had been passing down for generations. And so the thing that gave me a clue that it was real is that in many of these ancient books, I'll put a disclaimer.

00;22;32;16 - 00;22;53;07

Kathryn

Well, they don't mention Jesus Christ, but it's only because they were ignorant. They didn't know it's not really ancient. They obviously got this information from the Greeks. I'm like, okay, then why did you need to translate it from the ancient languages of Egyptian? You know, they're okay.

00;22;53;11 - 00;22;54;08

Chicava

Yeah.

00;22;54;10 - 00;23;28;03

Kathryn

So I said, okay, you know, say what you want to say. I'm going to read it for myself. So I'm reading this thing and there's in it in the reading of it, you understand that it predates Rome, it predates Greece, it predates the alleged life of Christ. And I say alleged life of Christ, because what this book demonstrates is that Christ is not a person.

00;23;28;05 - 00;23;48;01

Kathryn

Christ is a a level of expansion. Everyone is aspiring and all these monks were aspiring to achieve that level of consciousness of anointing, being anointed with the wisdom of the Creator. And that's what Christ means. It doesn't be.

00;23;48;01 - 00;23;49;02

Chicava

Anointed.

00;23;49;05 - 00;23;50;26

Kathryn

At all.

00;23;50;28 - 00;23;56;19

Chicava

Who so they're at Christ consciousness, essentially.

00;23;56;19 - 00;24;32;24

Kathryn

Yeah. I mean, so in a sense, if you compare that to the Christian religion, I mean, I don't really believe the gospels are real per say because they were written for after the Legend Christ lived. But if you look at all the gospels, I think it's Paul who says that he met the celestial Christ. And so does the only thing in Christianity that's similar to what the ancient monks were teaching, except Paul kind of usurped it for himself.

00;24;32;27 - 00;25;00;26

Kathryn

I'm the leader of the church rather than all the people who actually knew the guy. And so. But the monks were not know there is no church. You your mission is to reach that level of expansion. And so to me, as I was looking at that, comparing it to what I understood in the OSB, that it was the destiny of Earth people to reach that level of expansion.

00;25;00;28 - 00;25;27;04

Kathryn

That's what Christianity or Christ consciousness is about, has nothing to do with the guy because anybody can achieve it. So it means that, okay, maybe there was a Christ guy or a Yeshua guy, maybe he achieved it, but he wasn't the first. You know, there was Buddha, there was Krishna, there were all these other beings that went to this process of elevating their humanity to the point of having that kind of conscious power.

00;25;27;06 - 00;26;23;11

Kathryn

And they were setting an example for us. So when the message of the Christ is follow me, it's not worship me, it's do learn to do what I'm doing so you can do it. So. So after having all that understanding on a spiritual level and kind of a mental level and having that expansion in terms of being able to commune with spirit, then I started doing a lot of meditation, especially going into 2012, and I started having, you know, sort of time jumping and kind of having, I call them other life experiences because it's through that that I realized that all our lives are existing at the same time, the simultaneity.

00;26;23;13 - 00;26;58;25

Kathryn

So it's not that you go back into the past is that the past, you know like strange that are actually happening all at once and you can move into another stream, life stream, which to me is like waking up in another body, or you can commune back and forth and you can learn from yourself in other lifetimes. And it's true that that I met a facet of myself which I perceive as the past.

00;26;58;27 - 00;27;25;12

Kathryn

I mean, I don't as a human being, I don't know how else to experience it where I, in fact was a monk and a mountain, a snowy mountain, a young monk learning to meditate and learning to connect. But apparently I was a rebellious monk, a male young man, and the head monk got really mad at me and threw me out.

00;27;25;14 - 00;28;11;02

Kathryn

And there I was in the snow, had no place to go, and I would have frozen to death was snowed on. I was covered in snow and was just sitting there because I would go sit outside if God amount me. Nobody was thinking about me being out there and I got covered with the snow. But in that process, as that being I was meditating under the snow and I was able to cultivate this energy that brought heat within my body that allowed me to survive being and not be frozen under the snow.

00;28;11;05 - 00;28;34;00

Kathryn

And that's one of my spiritual guides. That person is one of my spiritual guides, and he helps me with qigong. So what I'm doing a lot of qigong when I'm teaching the qigong, there are times when that energy will come through and guide me as the master that I'm following, which would have been myself in a prior life.

00;28;34;00 - 00;28;40;10

Kathryn

In another age and time. So this is kind of convoluted and.

00;28;40;17 - 00;28;44;22

Chicava

This is the most amazing thing that's happened to me in a long time. You amazing.

00;28;44;22 - 00;29;05;01

Kathryn

Yeah. So I'm just, you know, and I had all these journeys. That was just one of them. And it took me a long while to connect and realize that we had a shared soul. And this is how the soul works. The soul, you know, is a little bit you could think of it, the imagery of it, like.

00;29;05;02 - 00;29;29;26

Kathryn

Like an octopus with all these tendrils and all these tendrils or your different life streams and there's no end to them. And the soul keeps all the knowledge and all the memory. And as you grow yourself to be able to commune with your soul, then you can travel back and forth into the different life streams for the soul.

00;29;29;29 - 00;29;53;06

Kathryn

They can all be happening at once. They may not all be. Some of them may be shut down, some of them maybe be, you know, and then so that's one way of moving through time and space. And so I do from 2012 to 2015, I had all of these travel experiences where I was different beings in different places.

00;29;53;08 - 00;30;19;12

Kathryn

And and if you analyze them, I guess you could say, well, that looks like the future, that looks like a past, but I don't really know. But I was, I became different species in some of these places and they were kind of long journeys in this other experience. So I would be, I would have to break away from it, you know, go to work, continue with my life.

00;30;19;19 - 00;30;35;06

Kathryn

And then I come back and I dive right back in. And so I would experience whole lifetimes in different places and different life streams. And sometimes I was learning, but sometimes it was me that was bringing in the wisdom.

00;30;35;09 - 00;30;52;10

Chicava

Right. So do you think to that end, the concept of like guided teachers higher, like when we are experiencing guidance, we feel like we have a guide a lot of times. Do you think that guide is another aspect of our soul?

00;30;52;10 - 00;31;24;22

Kathryn

Like, I think it's I think that's the most likely to be the case. Most likely to be the case. That is, it's it's somewhat insular to each individual but understanding that even are what we might identify as are higher. So our soul is still tender to the higher and then on until you get to the source. So we're all branching out like roots from the source.

00;31;24;24 - 00;31;57;25

Kathryn

And then there are these sort of groupings, so groupings or individual groupings that are you. So your soul family might all be you. Different facets of who you are as a being. And as we evolve, we the boundaries get thinner and you can communicate back and forth in the human body. It's more difficult because this is one of the most dense realms, this particular plane.

00;31;57;28 - 00;32;29;21

Kathryn

And I say plane planet because I view the planes more as levels of existence, you know, dimensions of vibration or density. So whether you believe the planet is round or flat, it doesn't matter. It's a certain density that we exist within. And there are other densities that we exist within and have different kinds of experiences without, you know, there being any knowledge between the two.

00;32;29;24 - 00;32;56;19

Kathryn

But all of that information from all of these experiences is feeding up to our particular over soul, which is the one that really is holding our life. That is really who we are. So that over soul, that holds all the information is who we truly are. And there's just a stream of that energy flowing into our body and how does it get there?

00;32;56;19 - 00;33;40;27

Kathryn

And that's what science is like, Qigong and yoga, but true yoga begin to teach us the mechanism of how that lighter, more vibrational energy can translate itself into physical reality. And that's what we're working with when we do a practice like qigong or are we, I say, essential yoga, because in this country these arts have been separated. You know, the physical is here, but because they came during a time when Western thought couldn't comprehend the spiritual part of it that was left out.

00;33;40;29 - 00;33;49;13

Kathryn

And so a lot of people who do these practices learned the physical techniques but never learned the spiritual practices that are married with it.

00;33;49;15 - 00;33;53;00

Chicava

Is that what you meant by true yoga or spiritual yoga?

00;33;53;02 - 00;34;26;12

Kathryn

I'm yeah, I'm talking about the yoga that is primal to the understanding of the whole practice. So it's when you think of qigong, Qigong comes is rooted out of shamanism. And shamanism grew into the doorways of and into the understanding of the esoteric. And it's only by being able to develop on that esoteric level that they could see into the body and see energy and understand.

00;34;26;14 - 00;34;41;20

Kathryn

So they just went a different path. And in yoga, I believe it's Hinduism, it's the same, you know, just different names. It's Prana or it's G, you know, it's a different system, but it's dealing with the same substance.

00;34;41;20 - 00;34;52;29

Chicava

It's explaining the same things. And so does that Do you you've given so much I this this feels like class this doesn't.

00;34;52;29 - 00;34;53;13

Kathryn

Feel like.

00;34;53;13 - 00;35;05;28

Chicava

Conversation and I'm so ear for it So you know they often say that Daoism is on one side of the mountain and Hinduism is on the other side of the mountain. So going back to the three.

Do you think that has something to do with the way different cultures develop?

00;35;14;05 - 00;35;24;18

Kathryn

Because the if you really would you say the Hindus had a different God than the Asiatic.

00;35;24;21 - 00;35;27;29

Chicava

So how do you respond viscerally.

00;35;28;01 - 00;36;01;03

Kathryn

Even though it's pulling down source information, it's doing so in the language of its people. So it's the same information, but it's coming through in different, culturally specific. And you will find the same thing in the continent we now call Africa, because that's not its traditional name in the least, but so different people had different relationships, you know, and it wasn't so much of competing gods.

00;36;01;06 - 00;36;16;13

Kathryn

It's like humanity evolved and dispersed across the earth. We're in different environments, had different characteristics and had different needs.

00;36;16;15 - 00;36;23;13

Chicava

Yeah, I was thinking about how different kinds of grapes grow in different regions and like.

00;36;23;15 - 00;36;44;05

Kathryn

So so I see different in that I see it more as not expecting every person across the years to follow one teacher. The teachings are universal and it's the teachings that adapt to the people, not the people that adapt to the teachings.

00;36;44;12 - 00;36;52;02

Chicava

Whoa. It's the teachings that adapt to the people, not the people that adapt to the teachings.

00;36;52;05 - 00;36;56;15

Kathryn

And I think that's the natural order of it. That's such a.

00;36;56;15 - 00;37;09;21

Chicava

Good way to contextualize, like now the concept of being in an indoctrinated religion to what people call I'm spiritual now, you know, it's.

00;37;09;23 - 00;37;31;27

Kathryn

And that's because we have the capacity to adapt, adapt our understanding of the divine source according to us as people. We are the sovereign and once in this plane.

00;37;31;29 - 00;37;34;26

Chicava

Sovereignty is one of my favorite words.

00;37;34;28 - 00;37;58;22

Kathryn

And you know, because we're here as an outpouring of the source of all existence. So who should have sovereignty over us? No one but us. And so, yeah, so that's all wrapped into my madness, you know? Yeah. Like you put a little bow on that for a second. Wow.

00;37;58;22 - 00;38;04;19

Chicava

So how did you come to practice, Daoism? For practice. How did you come to Daoism?

00;38;04;24 - 00;38;34;10

Kathryn

Like everything else, by accident. Just like finding a book. I used to be in a running club, though I was a race walker. I had some acquaintances, just friends and running club, and we would get together and train in Central Park, and I was training for a marathon at the time, so I did about 15 mile walk. I was exhausted and a friend came by and said, I heard about this thing, we should go check it out.

00;38;34;12 - 00;38;59;19

Kathryn

And I'm like, I don't feel like doing anything. I'm yeah, come on, just check it out. You don't have to, you know, you just listen. So I went and it was a young Japanese woman. Her name was Hiroko, and she was teaching a class in Qigong in Central Park. And it was just an introduction. It was an introduction from Sean Crane Qigong.

00;38;59;21 - 00;39;23;09

Kathryn

And we did this routine, which is gathering chai from the eight directions, and I was exhausted, but I pushed myself through it. And then at the end of it, I wasn't exhausted, I didn't feel tired. I felt more vibrant than I had when I started than I did when I started my work. and I was like, Well, there's got to be something going on here.

00;39;23;12 - 00;40;01;01

Kathryn

And I kept coming back and I studied with her. Then I studied with her teacher, who is Shen Chen, who was the lineage holder, just soaring Korean qigong. So she studied from the master who created Soaring Crane. She came here to pass it on, ended up being the head teacher at the Oregon College of Oriental Medicine. So I went there to be certified as a Qigong teacher, and then in the ensuing years, she would take her students on developmental trips to China.

00;40;01;04 - 00;40;33;19

Kathryn

So I went three times over a succession of about six or seven years, spending a month traveling through China and studying with Qigong masters. So I ended up studying with maybe a dozen Qigong masters between China and the US as a result of following that path of just checking out a little class and the park. Wow. And so I would study with these masters.

00;40;33;19 - 00;40;55;16

Kathryn

So I would some of the masters. I would go back year after year and study with her in relationship. And then my teacher would bring Masters here from China and we would study over a couple of years. And that's how I became certified in several forms of qigong that I now teach.

00;40;55;18 - 00;41;10;05

Chicava

Well and you were, we were talking earlier this double encourages me. How are you teaching now? Are you going to teach like long forms? Do you, what's the difference to you between like this kind of. We live in a monthly weekly thing.

00;41;10;09 - 00;41;46;09

Kathryn

Well I think that people who, who come to Qigong come at different levels. Like we were talking, I teach an ongoing program called Qigong Self Care, which is for people who don't really know or want to necessarily know Qigong. They just want to heal their bodies, hear their spirit, heal their mind. And I pull out the healing routines from that Qigong practice and teach people how to use qigong to heal just so few.

00;41;46;12 - 00;42;29;15

Kathryn

And I teach a you know, and that goes to it's kind of ongoing. It's a five week course. But I also teach and certify people to do what I'm doing with Qigong self care, so you can become a certified teacher of Qigong self care. But that's more of like a year long program. It's a two year, three long yearlong program so that you keep cultivating your skills and learning that Qigong and I teach several forms, you know, soaring crane qigong essence, qigong, turtle longevity, qigong, clapping hands, qigong, super energy with it is the clapping hand.

00;42;29;15 - 00;42;58;21

Kathryn

So I teach a number of forms that are suitable that I can match with people based on their temperament. and their needs and their capacity to focus. So some forms are great for children, adults too, but really great for children. And some forms are not appropriate to children. Some forms are for really people with a mental mind.

00;42;58;21 - 00;43;25;23

Kathryn

They need the details. And then there is some forms for artists that are free form and want to move and sort of dance with the starlight and kind of thing. So I try to match people to their temperament and form and I go through introduction, but each form has levels so soaring. Crain, for instance, has level one, which is five routines, level two, which is called standing meditation.

00;43;25;23 - 00;44;22;00

Kathryn

But it's really spontaneous going into spontaneous, allowing the cue to move, you usually have to be able to be liberated from form for the cue to move you and then shore and Crane has crane walking steps where you become like the crane, and there is showing Crane first aid is showing crane. You can become certified as a teacher and so there's all these different steps to each form so that if you're truly interested in diving deep into a practice, I would guide people through the stages of the form because the first level teaches you how to kind of show faster, understand what's happening, understand how to move, chew through your body, and then you go

00;44;22;00 - 00;44;28;09

Kathryn

on to be able to use teeth to actually heal other people. Wow.

00;44;28;11 - 00;44;31;17

Chicava

I keep saying that in this conversation.

00;44;31;23 - 00;44;39;21

Kathryn

So that it's not just a yearlong program. It's a life. It's a path. It's a path. It's a path we need.

00;44;39;23 - 00;45;08;00

Chicava

I'm for more people on paths. Yeah. And one thing I love about this Daoist path is how self curated it can be that you and in your dedication, you can move yourself to the things that really interest you because that's the aspect of life that you're or of the source spirit. However we want to say it, that's the aspect that it's it's yours to bring forward.

00;45;08;02 - 00;45;20;02

Kathryn

Yeah. And Daoism gives you the mechanism for traveling up the chain of your existence to your source. That's what Daoism is.

00;45;20;05 - 00;45;23;09

Chicava

Will you explain when you tell people that Daoism is.

00;45;23;11 - 00;46;05;21

Kathryn

From my vantage point and from based on my understanding, Daoism is kind of a primordial knowledge that's coming into our realm to be able to provide a path back to the primordial, the preexisting kind of primal. But in Daoism there is, you know, the the first source. And as it progresses into existence, the DOE, which is the one, it opens into the two, which is the yin and the yang.

00;46;05;23 - 00;46;37;25

Kathryn

And from the yin and the yang comes the three, the four, the 5 to 6. So everything is made from that singular source to the yin yang, the dual. And from that everything comes first. So what Daoism is teaching us is that we don't live in a world of opposites. We live in a world of complement. We're not supposed to be opposing men against women up against Joan.

00;46;37;27 - 00;46;58;27

Kathryn

If you want to know your place in existence, you have to consider that there is an up, there is a down, there is a left, there is a right in the four corners. You can't pretend like all this other reality doesn't exist. But in Western thinking, we kind of throw away all that and it's just becomes a clash of forces.

00;46;58;29 - 00;47;38;18

Kathryn

But Daoism takes us back to the truth of how everything flows and functions within our being. And, you know, Daoism opened up into different factions. You know, there's different ways of understanding it because there's the Kundalini, which is more taken up by yoga in terms of moving the energy and bringing yourself back to source in that way. But Daoism, as we understand it, through China, is a little bit more about immortality is how they would describe it.

00;47;38;20 - 00;48;13;09

Kathryn

A lot of the Daoist, not the most ancient, but I would say pre revolution in China before it became a warring state, the Daoist were looking for eternal life because eternal life means that you're in your optimum, spiritual, energetic state. And as of being of eternal life, you can manifest and manifest as you please, either in the physical world or in any other plane of existence.

00;48;13;09 - 00;48;55;09

Kathryn

Right? And so what the Daoism esoteric teachings are, is to connect you to that energy, because it's in your body, it's all there, but you have to connect with it, understand it, work with it, and build your capacity to. You can bring yourself to that state of immortality. And how I understand it for our current day is that because we live in such a toxic environment, toxic world, toxic everything, emotions, it's very difficult to get to that state of immortality where we can stay in our bodies for an eternity.

00;48;55;12 - 00;49;00;12

Kathryn

And do we really want to is the question in the sense that, you know, you want to be.

00;49;00;12 - 00;49;02;12

Chicava

At the point of more immortality?

00;49;02;20 - 00;49;03;09

Kathryn

It's not.

00;49;03;09 - 00;49;11;29

Chicava

Is this product that they think that people have been thought led to believe, indoctrinated, hypnotized, to think that it is.

00;49;12;01 - 00;49;12;28

Kathryn

It's totally not.

00;49;12;29 - 00;49;29;13

Chicava

But don't you think like youth culture, youth fixation, not youth culture. It's all designed to keep selling US products, whether they be beauty, whether they be house, whether they be medical products.

00;49;30;16 - 00;50;07;14

Kathryn

So and that's absolutely true and that's how they do, they divert that and pervert it and like you said, around commercialization. But ultimately for me what Daoism has become is not to equate it with this realm or with physicality. It's allowing yourself to move beyond the barriers of time and space and to be able to exist as yourself no matter where you are, no matter where you're born, you don't have a loss of memory, you don't have a loss of time.

00;50;07;16 - 00;50;19;07

Kathryn

You become an embodiment of the living soul and any experience. To me, that's what eternal life is. Thank you.

00;50;19;10 - 00;50;22;20

Chicava

I love you so much. I mean.

00;50;22;22 - 00;50;28;20

Kathryn

It's. wow. So that's so that's.

So that kind of fits snugly into my spiritual search, you know, the sort of the heart, the intellect, the mind, the spirit that I've been journeying from a child. Once you came together with Daoism, it made it a real process and possibly for me to understand how to bring that to fruition.

00;50;53;02 - 00;51;01;18

Chicava

Yeah, it became like, you know, this is how this is what it is. And then Daoism shows up and it's like, and this is how it is, this how you do it.

00;51;01;18 - 00;51;32;05

Kathryn

And it's nice about understanding that each culture has its traditions from its own source. God, to speak or divine guidance. You don't have to call it a guard. They didn't necessarily call it God is to understand that it's in every culture. So what I understand, I've been very blessed to understand Qigong and the Doe is practiced because it is most well preserved, a little bit like the Hindu stuff is very preserved.

00;51;32;07 - 00;52;09;16

Kathryn

So if you're if it resonates with you, you can go deep within to it, right? And qigong is the same, you can go deep into it and you will learn the knowledge and the practices that the ancients were using. What we're doing now is no different than the first shaman who created who came to understand that there were acupuncture and that there was energy flowing through the body and they could see and perceived his energies were doing the very same practices because they've been handed down from generation to generation to generation.

00;52;09;19 - 00;52;40;01

Kathryn

So the practices themselves in looking at it on paper doesn't give you the understanding, right, But it's the doing of it that gives you the understanding. So there has to be a commitment to actually doing it and making it real for you in order for you to have not have some master or guru tell you, tell you that you are experiencing and blossoming from within.

00;52;40;04 - 00;52;44;25

Kathryn

So it's real and it's personal and it's you speaking to you.

00;52;44;26 - 00;53;02;10

Chicava

Okay. I'm going to go backwards for a minute because you so because you're giving a kind of political macro. how the hell we got here? What is going on? Kathryn is here to explain it.

00;53;02;10 - 00;53;07;26

Kathryn

To us behind us. So, you know, it's it's a lot. It is.

00;53;07;26 - 00;53;10;13

Chicava

A lot. But you really I you really.

You're saying, like we all know that there's this indoctrination system that comes in with the Christian era. No matter I love alleged crime, I don't know. I don't know if the guy was real. I don't know if it was an idea. I don't know if there were ten of it.

00;53;27;28 - 00;53;29;00

Kathryn

And I don't think it matters.

00;53;29;01 - 00;54;03;19

Chicava

I don't it well, because there's so many. It has to not matter because there's just it's it it would be like trying to separate dark sand from light sand at this point to try and straighten out what has been purposely convoluted. But the point that you're saying it's said this juncture, it's somebody which is what I want to come back to, Somebody decided, we want to run all these people.

00;54;03;22 - 00;54;28;05

Chicava

We don't want them going up there, which to me lines up. Have you done the the team, the Old Testament? These on Anarchy, this kind of thing, these people coming in and that the concept that Genesis isn't about Genesis, it's about a genetic modification. Let us make them in our own image. Let us make them after us. It wasn't a creation story.

It's a Hey, what's that down there?

00;54;30;26 - 00;54;41;14

Kathryn

Well, I think there's truth to that. I agree with that. But I am very curious about the fact that there are two creations in the Bible.

00;54;41;17 - 00;54;44;28

Chicava

That never the whole Bible doesn't really jive.

00;54;45;01 - 00;54;56;23

Kathryn

Like I'm just saying, if you're going to think about what the Bible is telling us, there is a first creation in which he created.

00;54;56;25 - 00;54;57;18

Chicava

All the things.

00;54;57;18 - 00;55;26;26

Kathryn

He he created. He then he created man woman graded himself in his own image. You created man, women created he then whatever. How of that goes? So everything was cool for a while. And then some entities came in and I perceived Adam and Eve story as a genetically modified story. I don't think that's a natural creation of God because, I mean, the dude was walking around in the garden.

00;55;26;28 - 00;55;41;06

Kathryn

That's not what the Prime creator does. So it had to be some entity lower than the source that created the beings in the Garden of Eden, the so-called Garden of View.

00;55;41;08 - 00;55;59;10

Chicava

Or manipulated them. So in this line of thinking, they're saying that that the concept of Elohim is a plural for the powerful. Once a powerful group of entities that came in and started manipulating men, women, or.

00;55;59;10 - 00;56;07;09

Kathryn

At least one of them did. But doesn't that jibe with the OCE by saying that there are more than one? God.

00;56;07;11 - 00;56;41;20

Chicava

Yes. And there's more. Well, these it in in in fitting in what I've learned with you with other things like it makes the l m the unknown anarchy kind of story makes them even bigger interlopers and like their interrupters in what was going on in term. Because if you have the Hindu traditions and the gods springing up as they were where they were, and in Japan you have the shinta springing up as they were their Department of Gods happening.

Same thing over here.

00;56;43;18 - 00;56;52;08

Kathryn

DNA and in what I could build on before I it was called the Vancouver Island, I think it was I Cubillo I.

00;56;52;11 - 00;56;54;06

Chicava

Agree.

00;56;54;08 - 00;57;34;24

Kathryn

It was more of an ancestral thing perhaps, but it still was its own tradition leading us back to the source, right? gosh. And Egyptian had theirs. So at some point something happened and according to what the OSB sort of suggests, it's like the Hindus are right in terms of this rotation of ages. So a God could be elevated in one age, full in another age.

00;57;34;24 - 00;57;40;17

Kathryn

It's the same God, but it's dealing with a different energy and doesn't have the same knowledge or understanding.

00;57;40;17 - 00;57;42;12

Chicava

Maximum the end leads to.

00;57;42;14 - 00;58;17;03

Kathryn

And then it can fall in the next age. And so the it's not just the the beings on earth. The gods are also going through these ages of development because the system is not to develop humans, but to develop gods. That's what the Creator wants. The Creator wants administrators that can keep going out and creating new worlds. What you do, what your world is up to, you.

00;58;17;05 - 00;58;44;22

Kathryn

I mean, that's the impression I got. So. So yes, the Earth is a school, but the Earth is not a school for us. The Earth is a school for gods, for administrators of the creation is how I understand it. So we're a good administrator of a particular people's or worlds. Might at some point be at its peak. It doesn't stay there.

00;58;44;24 - 00;59;19;15

Kathryn

It also has to experience the whole cycle to be able to elevate itself to the next level where it doesn't need those cycles. So there is a way in which humanity are pawns of the gods. We really are. There's a way in which, especially as we cycle into the lower ages, we just become like pawns. We don't have human, we have despicable gods.

00;59;19;18 - 00;59;21;06

Chicava

But that now.

00;59;21;09 - 00;59;55;28

Kathryn

I would think so. Okay. And so even though there may have been a certain people, might have been the anarchy might have been something else that at one age was despicable, may not be despicable now maybe elevated. So we don't really know who the honor are or what state they're in. In our age, if the God here is down the unknown, he might be at their peak.

00;59;56;00 - 01;00;12;09

Kathryn

So if the honor anarchy came back, they won't come back with the same energy and mentality that they were here before. And from my vantage point, this is all so confusing. The only way we can know the truth is from the inside of ourselves. Wow.

01;00;12;16 - 01;00;13;10

Chicava

That.

01;00;13;12 - 01;00;41;16

Kathryn

Yes, we have to be able to know who we are, how we are connected to our elevation of being, and when we have to be concerned about our own elevating into that state of Christ consciousness, Buddha consciousness, so that we can commune with the higher the realms that are at a more that are outside the cycle, outside the wheel.

01;00;42;06 - 01;01;05;13

Kathryn

That's the objective to get outside of the wheel into a space where you're, you're good and you don't have to go through these cycles anymore and you can, you would be in a position to create another world. But once you create that of the world, you go back into that cycle.

01;01;05;15 - 01;01;19;27

Chicava

Similar, I thought of the kind of show creation artist creation cycle where you just you start out with the idea and you're grubby and it's messy and it's just you by yourself. And then the show comes and everything is like.

01;01;19;27 - 01;01;22;21

Kathryn

And they start to come together. Beautiful.

01;01;22;21 - 01;01;28;16

Chicava

And then the show closes and that there's that kind of down feeling. Yeah.

01;01;28;18 - 01;01;56;02

Kathryn

Yeah, exactly. And so it's we have all these cycles that we're dealing with. So and this is what I like about Daoism as well. It's like just be neutral because you don't know what the heck is going on. Don't let anybody's madness carry you down and don't get all upset about other people's sins because everybody's doing it. Nobody knows any better.

01;01;56;09 - 01;02;23;27

Kathryn

So I like Dogen because it pulls you into a more neutral space. It's not man is not women. It's not summer, it's not winter. It's the endless flow. All you have to do is to know where you are in that time, within that flow. And that's what the whole teaching is about. How do you read the signs of where you are in the flow of your existence but within this place?

01;02;23;29 - 01;02;55;28

Kathryn

And so the teaching will say, okay, according to this symbol, you have to be concerned with these things and not personal to the people around you. And that's kind of the holding balance. But we are human and we do get mad. You know, we do want to suck somebody in the head every once in a while. Yeah. And we do want to we do have to navigate because this is a very explosive environment.

01;02;56;00 - 01;03;09;01

Kathryn

So we have to be able to discern who is dangerous, who's not. You know, we live in a place where it's not all good, you know, and the spiritual teachings will say, it's all good, loving, like, no.

01;03;09;02 - 01;03;09;18

Chicava

Yeah, now.

01;03;09;19 - 01;03;16;23

Kathryn

That's nonsense. We don't live in a loving, light realm. I think that that I mean, it's here.

01;03;16;26 - 01;03;23;03

Chicava

It is, but everything else is here to dark and mud is here, right? Right alongside love and light.

01;03;23;05 - 01;03;26;02

Kathryn

I mean, it's actually the mud, that gross stuff.

01;03;26;04 - 01;03;27;15

Chicava

Right?

01;03;27;17 - 01;03;33;17

Kathryn

Right. Not the mud is what brings life.

01;03;33;19 - 01;03;55;20

Chicava

I think that we're in a like I believe I hope and I pray that the morphic idea field of these desert religions, these Abrahamic religions are starting to dissipate and end with the hold they have on people's minds.

01;03;55;23 - 01;04;07;06

Kathryn

Well, I think I hope that that's true as well. But I understand that we are living in an age of fallen gods.

01;04;07;09 - 01;04;08;09

Chicava

Tell me more.

01;04;08;11 - 01;04;22;21

Kathryn

Know, as I was saying in this cycle. We're in the dark ages. That means our gods are in the dark ages. They can't lead us out. We're the only ones that can lead ourselves. So imagine now.

01;04;22;24 - 01;04;37;28

Chicava

Which we have. So. Which goes along nicely with Mayan calendar teachings in terms of the rate of creation goes so fast, you go out of your mind, you only can go. You go out of your brain.

01;04;38;00 - 01;04;39;08

Kathryn

Yeah, that part. Yeah.

01;04;39;09 - 01;04;54;10

Chicava

You go out of your brain. So you can only use your real faculties. Yeah. You have to dive in. But I was saying with the, with what I hope I don't know we are today is I think Yeah.

01;04;54;14 - 01;05;04;17

Kathryn

I think that the religions all have a lot of truth in them. If people can find the truth in them, then they can be a guidance to some people who need that.

01;05;04;21 - 01;05;21;18

Chicava

Well, I, I think that all the religions have truth in them too. But nobody everybody has been indoctrinated. People have been indoctrinated into these religions to the benefit of the indoctrinate or exact not that that's really the problem.

01;05;21;18 - 01;05;32;18

Kathryn

Yeah, that's essentially the problem. Yeah. Is that people are well, a lot of these documents were written with that in mind because before that things were passed down in other ways.

01;05;32;19 - 01;05;55;05

Chicava

Orally and on. Yeah, and through art it's all a huge manipulation system and it's so and it's so painful. Like there is an objectivity to not being a part of it, but it's still I don't want I, no one wants what's happening now. Well, yeah, except for the people that do.

01;05;55;09 - 01;06;23;25

Kathryn

When I say not being a part of it, I don't mean that you don't speak up for justice. I don't mean that you might even battle for justice. I mean that you don't engage in the activity of hating and feeding into the injustice. But that is more what I'm speaking of. So, yeah, I think what's happening in these pockets in the world is heinous and it needs to be stopped.

01;06;23;27 - 01;06;45;12

Kathryn

And it won't stop when its own human beings have to stop that. So that means it needs to be. Action taking place is just like in your body. If you don't stop eating sugar, you're going to get diabetes and you're going to die. That's what the world is doing. It's keep doing stuff that's killing it and only human beings can take action against it.

01;06;45;15 - 01;07;20;01

Kathryn

How we do that is the question. But yeah, that's not what I mean by being neutral. What I mean by being neutral is that not being sucked into that pit of rage and hate and feeling like there are no solutions. But the really toxic, harmful ones is what I mean, kind of by neutral. You keep yourself from diving into the into that deep hole, but you also have to keep yourself from moving into fantasy.

01;07;20;03 - 01;07;41;09

Kathryn

All the white light stuff that's fantasy. So neutral. It's like you're you're trying to drive down the middle and not be be pulled to either end of the spectrum where you're part of the problem and as opposed to being able to see what's there.

01;07;41;12 - 01;07;44;02

Chicava

In neutrals, a lot of discipline.

01;07;44;04 - 01;08;01;05

Kathryn

It's takes a lot of work and and it's never always possible. It's always a journey that's always going to be up and down because that's what energy does. Energy doesn't travel in a straight line.

01;08;01;07 - 01;08;44;09

Chicava

I've been moving through a lot of acceptance of the the kaleidoscope of the world that I was going to say and in wanting feeling, seeing these the energy of the three, the Abrahamic religions start to dissipate, I think that people need the next familiar thing. And so in out of as that salvation is and falls away this kind of love and light thing growth love, light, love, light, healing, growth, actualization, these are the new salvation buzzwords because there's something that's been put us that that makes us think something's got to save us.

01;08;44;12 - 01;08;54;14

Kathryn

I was thinking the same thing as the whole savior thing. But there is no external shape. Your own energy internally.

01;08;54;17 - 01;08;56;17

Chicava

And what do we need to be saved from.

01;08;56;20 - 01;08;58;22

Kathryn

Ourselves.

01;08;58;24 - 01;09;01;26

Chicava

Or losing ourselves? Saved from losing it?

01;09;01;27 - 01;09;12;28

Kathryn

So it's. It's the distortion that this world can entice us into, and we lose connection with our true beingness.

01;09;13;00 - 01;09;20;23

Chicava

Wow. I don't know, Kathryn. I kind of think it might be a monthly lesson for the women.

01;09;20;25 - 01;09;43;28

Kathryn

Well, we'll see how it goes. Maybe if they have questions and stuff. you know, I've said a lot and it's all free flowing. You know, I speak from my spirit. I never know what I'm going to say before I say it. Yeah. So? So there's a lot that comes together. So a lot of what I'm speaking comes to me an energy comes through in my voice.

01;09;44;00 - 01;10;05;13

Kathryn

It comes through in the energy when I'm working with people, when I'm teaching, when I'm healing, it all flows with me in those activities. And perhaps that's why you felt that there was more of an experience, as much of an experience as just that was more transcendental?

01;10;05;15 - 01;10;36;13

Chicava

Well, in its. Yes. And it's really, really important right now for people to know that physiologically that's capable. I'm an advocate for people using plant medicine and doing things that they need to do, and I love to need those. Yeah, we need those things. But we also, as much as it can be like, Whoa, this, this is a power I can cultivate within myself.

This is even an intimacy that I can cultivate in myself.

01;10;42;09 - 01;10;43;17

Kathryn

Yeah.

01;10;43;20 - 01;11;14;11

Chicava

That is so we need like, I see these gradations and waves, Like right now we're going to be like, okay, maybe we're not going to hell, but we're totally loving like, you know, maybe we where we're going to do plant medicine because we need to just plug right in. We got to pull back this DM'd curtain, get like hardcore proof that there is a source, are source, it is happening and we need that once, twice and.

01;11;14;11 - 01;11;17;11

Kathryn

We can connect to the plant medicine energetically.

01;11;17;18 - 01;11;39;20

Chicava

Right? Well, that's what I'm saying. But like you need that the take as we're so physical, the physical taking of it to plug in to know that it's there, that is the next kind of movement. I think the next thing like we'll hear some practices to show you more and more that you're there. I did The Beautiful with a dear friend of mine. I did a beautiful journey either a year or two ago. It's been a while. And it she said it was one of the more interesting administrations that she'd done because after my frontal lobe, like your panic, when your frontal lobe starts going out right. Your personality is shutting down. But after that, she was fascinated. I wasn't confused or floaty or scared. And the only thing as a thing that we differentiated with about me was my Daoist practices and firm. So it served as a confirmation that immortal fetus this I think of the immortal fetus in its own mortality is setting up a place to go when you your body so that when you don't have a body you can still feel no your orientation in the universe.

01;12;36;04 - 01;13;01;22

Chicava

And in that journey, I she was very the feedback was clear that I knew how to get somewhere like I had I got a little seat right here that I'm going to and I just want more of that for people because a lot of salvation ism and that that fear that has it's so dug into people is not like not knowing what's going to happen on the other side and even be on the other side.

01;13;01;22 - 01;13;05;16

Chicava

Is it even safe in this universe, you know.

01;13;05;18 - 01;13;07;18

Kathryn

Depending on where you go.

01;13;08;04 - 01;13;11;03

Chicava

kind of like Brooklyn.

01;13;11;06 - 01;13;34;25

Kathryn

Which is why it's good to be conscious and have those connections to your greatest self, you know, because just like you want to be able to move to a place that you want to go to, you also need to be cognizant of where you came from. Where were you before you were born? It's very similar to where you'll be if you live.

01;13;34;28 - 01;13;42;16

Chicava

Really similar. It's where you where you were before you were born. Very similar to be where you'll be after.

01;13;42;16 - 01;14;17;05

Kathryn

You body because you're in a state that's not divided from the pure. So right before birth and after birth are both connected to your primary soul source. So your solutions are tendril down to be born. You have a life. You want to be able to go back to your source. So if you know your self, your prenatal self, which is a lower down chair in the prenatal tree, if you understand that energy, you know what resonance you're looking for when you're done.

01;14;18;29 - 01;14;47;11

Kathryn

In my, in my understanding of I'm not saying that's exactly the same, but it's like, okay, this is who I was, this is the person I was. I can't dived in to get all this experience from coming out, but if I can remember, I was and I can remember my source, at least as I understand you, you know, I'm not I can only give my perspective on things.

01;14;47;14 - 01;15;17;04

Chicava

And I am so for it. We have had a swirling adventure, y'all, to get in these seats today. I'm going to wrap it up here. I'm telling you right now, I'm inviting you right back. I feel like you have so very much to say. So I started this podcast. I wanted to hear more voices of black women talking about their spiritual journeys and philosophical points of view.

So to that end, I would like to ask you, what do you want for the sheroes? What is your wish for the sheroes out there?

01;15;26;02 - 01;16;07;10

Kathryn

I think all that we spoke about and I think that in this room, in this existence, perhaps in all of reality, we are the closest to the source that's in existence. However you think of the down, the yen, the young, the form of creation. Even if you believe in Adam and Eve, it takes a woman to make another being to all beings came out of the essence of women.

01;16;07;12 - 01;16;52;23

Kathryn

So I think we need to begin to understand the energy that we carry within our consciousness, within our genealogy, within our understanding, and within our capacity, and just take all that wealth of understanding, turn it into heal ourselves so that we can have something to give else yet again, because too much has been stripped away. So we have to prioritize our selves as black women in this day and age, in this space and time, because nothing will ever change until we heal, because we are the beginning.

01;16;52;25 - 01;16;55;23

Kathryn

The beginning and the end is black women.

01;16;58;16 - 01;17;00;24

Chicava

Thank you so much for this visit.

01;17;00;24 - 01;17;06;13

Kathryn

Thank you. Thank you. yes.

01;17;06;15 - 01;17;11;02

Chicava

Kathryn Davis, Sisters. Kathryn Davis.

01;17;11;05 - 01;17;34;18

Kathryn

And I. For those who want to check out what I do, just go to Del Qigong life dot com da0, I spoke with a G the old fashioned way. Doh qigong qig0 and g life lifo e del qigong. And from there you can expand out and find more.

01;17;34;20 - 01;17;36;23

Chicava

All right, well, we will.

01;17;36;23 - 01;17;37;19

Chicava

See you.

01;17;37;24 - 01;18;05;13

Chicava

Very soon again on the Sheroes Space Podcast.